S07.E03: Home Sweet Homeless Shelter

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Kevin, Veronica and Svetlana start a topless maid service. At the shelter, meanwhile, Frank makes new friends to replace his old family - leading them to a for-sale house converted into the Gallagher Home for the Homeless. Plus, Debbie's new lifestyle comes to an abrupt end; Carl gets a syphilis scare; Ian struggles with a breakup; and with Fiona on the run to clean up after her siblings, business at Patsy's hits the skids.

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

[madhacker]

Fiona......you go girl!! That's how you take charge of your life, although I'm pretty sure she let Ian "sleep in" because she's giving him some leeway because of his "condition" and the simple fact that Ian's always had his head on straight (so to speak) and he's really trying to make something of his life these days.

Speaking of Ian, yeah he screwed up but at least he realized he had to take his meds and he still has his job.

Carl's ex-girlfriend learned a simple fact......don't fuck with a Gallagher, or  the consequences will be terrible.

Debs can go live with Frank and his new "family", that's how little I care about her nowadays.

[Dee]

The Gallaghers are fucking trash.

[dangwoodchucks]

Once again Fiona forgot that the guardianship of her siblings meant until they turned 18. Debbie, Carl and Liam are still minors but she doesn't even want to be the emergency contact for them, except maybe Liam if he's lucky, and he seems to be quickly becoming a little thug.

And another character gets thrown under the bus. End of last episode Dominique is going down on Carl, beginning of this one she won't even talk to him and she's seeing someone else.

I still don't get why Lip is interning at a tech startup? That's what it is, right? I thought he was studying engineering.

I really hate Frank.

[CarolMK]

That was a pretty strange episode overall. Frank actually cares enough about other homeless kids to want to start a new family? I'm not buying it.

And now Svetlana's father has entered the picture. There are getting to be too many characters on the show to keep track of overall.

Liam is too old for daycare. He should be at least 6 years old by now. The actors playing look to be 6 or 7. 

[whiporee]

I think they brought in Svetlana's father to take the place of Milkoviches, who had gone too far for American audiences. I understand they were a large part of the British show. 

I thought Fiona was a little harsh on Lip, but he didn't seem to mind. The Ian stuff was good, I FFed Debbie and I loved Carl going to her father to prove his innocence; I've always thought he loved the dad more than he loved the girl. 

[Nordly Beaumont]

So I'll stick around to see how long Fiona sticks to her guns, but that's about the only plot line I am interested in.

Super disappointed Debs didn't end up in jail. Where she belongs.

And oh please, men are going to whip out hundreds of dollars to get Kev to move the van? Right. Splash it with paint, maybe. But pay big money? Ugh, stupid.

[Dee]

Fiona can get bent. No, seriously.

First, ordering her siblings to list Vee and Kev as an emergency contact before HER was an act of selfishness that would make Monica and Frank proud.

Second, she has no room to be slamming anyone or acting like the sole head of the Gallagher household when it was Carl & Lip who stepped up (without being asked) to hold the family together when she was running around being intensely self destructive the last few seasons.

Speaking of Frank and Monica, Debbie is a supreme disappointment. No child of theirs should be THAT bad at boosting.

Ian can keep his eternal victim complex and useless crocodile tears. Rita should've fired his ungrateful ass on the spot.

It took seven seasons for Lip to finally acknowledge he has to work his way from the bottom up like everyone else. Must be nice being white.

Svetlana was right to call Kev & Vee out on leaving her out of the throuple's decision making process, but expecting them to be immediately ok with her sketchy ass dad is a bridge too far. And using Carol to emotionally blackmail Vee was really gross.

So instead of actual character development they're just gonna have Liam inherit Frank's characteristics through osmosis? Cool.

Frank as a Folk Hero? Do. Not. Care.

Also? Way to go throwing yet ANOTHER character and actor of color under the bus to prop your unsympathetic white faves show. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dee

[BunnyBlueBrown]

3 hours ago, Dee said:

Fiona can get bent. No, seriously.

First, ordering her siblings to list as Vee and Kev as an emergency contact before HER was an act of selfishness that would make Monica and Frank proud.

Second, she has no room to be slamming anyone or acting like the sole head of the Gallagher household when it was Carl & Lip who stepped up (without being asked) to hold the family together when she was running around being intensely self destructive the last few seasons.

Speaking of Frank and Monica, Debbie is a supreme disappointment. No child of theirs should be THAT bad at boosting.

Ian can keep his eternal victim complex and useless crocodile tears. Rita should've fired his ungrateful ass on the spot.

It took seven seasons for Lip to finally acknowledge he has to work his way from the bottom up like everyone else. Must be nice being white.

Svetlana was right to call Kev & Vee out on leaving her out of the throuple's decision making process, but expecting them to be immediately ok with her sketchy ass dad is a bridge too far. And using Carol to emotionally blackmail Vee was really gross.

So instead of actual character development they're just gonna have Liam inherit Frank's characteristics through osmosis? Cool.

Frank as a Folk Hero? Do. Not. Care.

Also? Way to go throwing yet ANOTHER character and actor of color under the bus to prop your unsympathetic white faves show. 

Innocent question. How does Shameless throw ppl of color under the bus versus whites? I don't see it.

4 hours ago, whiporee said:

I think they brought in Svetlana's father to take the place of Milkoviches, who had gone too far for American audiences. I understand they were a large part of the British show. 

I thought Fiona was a little harsh on Lip, but he didn't seem to mind. The Ian stuff was good, I FFed Debbie and I loved Carl going to her father to prove his innocence; I've always thought he loved the dad more than he loved the girl. 

Me too...he really seeked the Dad's approval 

[Happytobehere]

Frank remains a completely vile and useless PoS as does his equeally despicable, thieving, rapist of a daughter. I hate both characters and would love for them to just fall off the face of the earth.

Continuing with the show's delightful portrayal of black people, Carl's girlfriend is revealed to be a selfish, uncaring tramp; Frank and the piece of trash he is with find it perfectly acceptable to name a black boy after his rapist daughter and refuse to recognize that what they are doing is disgusting; Frank gets two new black children and neither of them is Liam; Liam, the only non-f'd up Gallagher is being ruined; and this new storyline with Vi is just awful.

At least the show hasn't forgotten that Ian has a mental illness.

Frank seizing possession of a home and inviting the homeless to live there -- now that is the scene that SWAT would have been called in for.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Happytobehere

[patchwork]

I don't have a problem with Fiona demanding that the others start paying their way, with the exception of Liam and Carl they've all left school so there's no reason why they shouldn't be doing their fair share. But the show seems to forget that she's the legal guardian of most of them and she can't seriously expect Vee and Kevin to step up before she does. They're family friends not family. 

I want to be supportive of Fiona making more of herself because it's something she's been trying to do on and off for ages now but she's doing it in such a Frank and Monica way that I just can't.

I can see Svetlana's family moving in and becoming the US version of the Maguires.   

Edited October 17, 2016 by patchwork

[stagmania]

The idea that Ian could be an EMT despite being a high school dropout with a potentially dangerous mental illness was always implausible, but they've gone ahead and made it even more ridiculous. He put a patient's life at risk and almost got them killed, and all that happens is his boss shows him this dumb video and asks him to get his meds checked? No, sorry, that is not how any of this works.

The whole Fiona declares her independence storyline might be interesting if she hadn't already essentially abdicated her guardian responsibilities a few seasons ago. She hasn't taken her role in the family seriously for a long time.

[dangwoodchucks]

3 hours ago, DOBABYR said:

Innocent question. How does Shameless throw ppl of color under the bus versus whites? I don't see it.

 

6 hours ago, Dee said:

So instead of actual character development they're just gonna have Liam inherit Frank's characteristics through osmosis? Cool.

Frank as a Folk Hero? Do. Not. Care.

Also? Way to go throwing yet ANOTHER character and actor of color under the bus to prop your unsympathetic white faves show.

I don't see how they throw people of color under the bus more than white people either. The writers have always trashed characters to suit their needs whether it's Gus, Sean, Mickey, Caleb or Dominique. They don't discriminate, if a Gallagher needs to look more sympathetic or they're just done with a storyline and need the character to be gone, they're made to look like the bad guy.

I think the implication with Liam is that he picked up Frank's habits when Frank had him along for the siege of the upstairs, btw, they haven't even removed the entire walls up there? Truth is, Liam could've picked up those habits from any of his siblings.

Ian's whole storyline of getting to be an EMT last season annoyed me because we all know it wouldn't have been possible in reality and he definitely would've been out once they found out he lied. But now this? He clearly broke protocol and the woman could've been killed as a result. At the least Ian should face disciplinary action, at the most be terminated. His actions could've opened the municipality up to a lawsuit which would likely be won. But nah, just take a week off.

I like Svetlana's father so far, but I bet Kev and V will have a hard time getting him out of their house. There sure was a bunch of butt and boobs this ep.

[preeya]

29 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

 

I don't see how they throw people of color under the bus more than white people either. The writers have always trashed characters to suit their needs whether it's Gus, Sean, Mickey, Caleb or Dominique. They don't discriminate, if a Gallagher needs to look more sympathetic or they're just done with a storyline and need the character to be gone, they're made to look like the bad guy.

I think the implication with Liam is that he picked up Frank's habits when Frank had him along for the siege of the upstairs, btw, they haven't even removed the entire walls up there? Truth is, Liam could've picked up those habits from any of his siblings.

Ian's whole storyline of getting to be an EMT last season annoyed me because we all know it wouldn't have been possible in reality and he definitely would've been out once they found out he lied. But now this? He clearly broke protocol and the woman could've been killed as a result. At the least Ian should face disciplinary action, at the most be terminated. His actions could've opened the municipality up to a lawsuit which would likely be won. But nah, just take a week off.

I like Svetlana's father so far, but I bet Kev and V will have a hard time getting him out of their house. There sure was a bunch of butt and boobs this ep.

And a mind's eye view of a very large Russian schlong that V actually saw twice.   BTW: Svetlana's father (Pasha Lychnikoff) portrayed Ivan Belikov on Ray Donovan.

[Nordly Beaumont]

55 minutes ago, dangwoodchucks said:

Ian's whole storyline of getting to be an EMT last season annoyed me because we all know it wouldn't have been possible in reality and he definitely would've been out once they found out he lied. But now this? He clearly broke protocol and the woman could've been killed as a result.

Broke protocol and his superior demanded several times that he stop taking the restraints off!

I had friend that was a paramedic many years ago. Apparently the "patient tries to get out through the back of the ambulance" scenario does happen in real life. So I would think by now there's some kind of safety latch on those doors?

[Miles]

This episode was a big step up from the last few for me.

Finally Fiona actually threatened Frank with the police, something she should have done a long time ago.

Lip learns that he has to take some shit (or piss), especially after the mistakes he made.

Carl's storyline was actually decent this week.

I like Fiona's determination in principle, but she went way overboard. She should be before Vi and Kev on that emergency contact list and for the three minors she shoud be number 1. When you decide to take on guardianship for these kids, that's part of the deal. I also don't think Carl should have to contribute to household finances, he still goes to school and that should be his job.

I think it goes without saying that Frank's and Debby's shit is always annoying. I fast foreward through most of it by now.

10 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

And oh please, men are going to whip out hundreds of dollars to get Kev to move the van? Right. Splash it with paint, maybe. But pay big money? Ugh, stupid.

In the right neighbourhood I could see it. Upper crust enough that people wouldn't want to get their hands dirty and have enough money so that paying somebody a few hudnred is nothing to them, not so upper crust that ti's a gated community with guards. Not sure how long Kev will have until he runs out of the right turf though.

9 hours ago, Dee said:

First, ordering her siblings to list as Vee and Kev as an emergency contact before HER was an act of selfishness that would make Monica and Frank proud.

Second, she has no room to be slamming anyone or acting like the sole head of the Gallagher household when it was Carl & Lip who stepped up (without being asked) to hold the family together when she was running around being intensely self destructive the last few seasons.

Agreed on all fronts. If the last few seasons had never happened she'd have a point, but they did.

10 hours ago, CarolMK said:

Liam is too old for daycare. He should be at least 6 years old by now. The actors playing look to be 6 or 7. 

He is played by twins. From googeling they turned 5 in June last year, so they should still be 5 when this was shot. I guess this is a case of black kids always looking older than they actually are especially to white people (studies have shown this, it's not just me bullshitting).

 

2 hours ago, stagmania said:

The idea that Ian could be an EMT despite being a high school dropout with a potentially dangerous mental illness was always implausible, but they've gone ahead and made it even more ridiculous. He put a patient's life at risk and almost got them killed, and all that happens is his boss shows him this dumb video and asks him to get his meds checked? No, sorry, that is not how any of this works.

I get the feeling his boss really likes him (for whatever reason) and she said she'd cover for him this time. I took that to mean this wouldn't enter the official record. I could see that happen in ral life. People disregard policy all the time. Ian is seriously lucky to have found a boss who'd do that for him, but it's not impossible.

[iMonrey]

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How does Shameless throw ppl of color under the bus versus whites?

It doesn't. Fiona cheated on Gus with Steve/Jimmy. Does that make the show "anti-white?" Of course not. Everyone cheats on everyone on this show. Now, I will concede that the cast of this show is predominantly white, but that doesn't make it much different than 90% of the shows on TV today. If anything the show is racially blind. There's more than just an economic distinction to people who live on the South Side, and Shameless tends to avoid more sensitive issues like race relations.

I know Showtime seems to consider William H. Macy the big draw for this show, since he's the big "name" star and has multiple Emmy nominations for the role, but they over-value him to their own detriment. The character ran its course years ago, and now the mandatory, wacky Frank hi-jinks they have to shoehorn into every episode are tiresome, irritating and obligatory. I just want to fast-forward through all his scenes. 

Fiona may have gone one step too far in suggesting her siblings put Kev and Vee before her on their list of emergency contacts, but that aside I don't blame her for laying down the law after a day filled with rescuing them all from their various troubles - especially Debbie. 

The desperation Ian felt when everyone was accusing him of having another manic episode was palpable. I thought it was the most effective part of the episode.

[LuciaMia]

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butt and boobs

At least they lightened up on the constant focus on dicks the past two episodes. Though we still got the implications of Svetlana's Dad's endowment.

Can a commercial store take over the lease of a homeless shelter, which usually is a government or church run establishment?

Sorry to see Debbie's nanny get fired. She was one of the few characters that was fun and nice. Even with the threat of selling Debs hair to a wig-makers. 

What exactly does that company DO where Lip works?

Edited October 17, 2016 by LuciaMia

[Dee]

Shameless has thrown characters of color under the bus since the pilot. And this show is anything but "racially blind."

Fiona & Steve are/were both habitual cheaters but their cheating is/was not treated as a fatalistic character flaw. It was treated as a joke and/or a symptom of their "tough" upbringing.

And that's before we get to the abominable writing for, and casting of, the recurring characters and guest stars on this show, which is a virtual cavalcade of disgustingly offensive racial stereotypes.

When characters and actors of color are afforded opportunities to lie, cheat, steal, assault, commit attempted murder, etc. with impunity while receiving copious amounts of airtime and sympathetic writing, like their white peers? Then we can discuss Shameless being "equitable."

But then again, this is a show that posits kicking a person in the teeth as the absolute apex of true love. So....

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dee

[Gulftastic]

I loved Fiona taking back her life. I know she agreed to be the kids' guardian, but the woman has  given over her life since childhood acting as a mother to her siblings. She's in a position and place where she sees a chance to move on up. I hope it continues. 

[dezi]

On a show where characters routinely get away with intentional acts of destruction and cruelty, I am perfectly okay with Ian getting a pass for his terrible mistake made with good intentions.

I fully support Fiona’s new-found (again) ambition but she needs to quit carrying on like she didn’t already stop raising her siblings 3 seasons ago. How I wish she had left Liam with that couple in S3. Sure wanting to keep the family together was a nice sentiment, but she really failed him there. He had it good, with two attentive parents. Now he’s stuck being raised by anyone who can be bothered, raising himself, or worst of all being raised by Frank. Even after they saw what a rogue he was turning into under Frank’s influence they leave Liam with him again at the end of this episode. Poor kid doesn’t stand a chance.

[sazzat]

I do think the show has issues with how they characterize race. I said in another episode's comments that ignoring the setting contributes to that. All of the point of view characters but one are white. They live in a neighborhood where 90-95% of the faces around them should be people of color, and while the show casts more diversely than a typical show with a white family as the focus, they're nowhere near showing the actual racial makeup of this neighborhood. Each of the disproportionately few black characters is more burdened with representing race, and since they aren't point of view characters we don't see a spectrum of their behavior...so when that behavior conforms to negative stereotypes, that's not the same to me as "everyone on Shameless is flawed." And the show tries to pretend it has some enlightened view on race, like mocking Carl's ignorant concept of blackness when he was dealing drugs -- but at the same time presenting the audience with a totally cartoonish, inflated stereotype of black street gangs making drug money.

I am interested in Fiona's new direction but worried about how the show will carry through with it. It's disturbing that her ambition means denying people opportunities for a second chance that she herself has had. She's telling off her siblings for slacking, but  while Lip may be acting like a douchebag about his prospects and screwed up a chance at college, he has helped to carry the family, particularly when Fiona fucked up; if Ian ever stopped contributing to the household funds it's never been mentioned before; Carl's in school and gave Fiona thousands of dollars already; Debbie has recently made stupid choices but put in more years of household support than anyone could reasonably expect of a child; Fiona herself willingly took on the guardianship of her minor siblings even when warned by the judge of the length of the commitment. Does she want to give that up? It's understandable if it's more than she was prepared for, and contradictory and even hypocritical behavior can be part of being a complicated character. But I'm getting the sense that the show wants us to just root for her and say go, Fiona, it's about time, without problematizing this.

[Dee]

24 minutes ago, dezi said:

On a show where characters routinely get away with intentional acts of destruction and cruelty, I am perfectly okay with Ian getting a pass for his terrible mistake made with good intentions.

A "mistake" that could've been wholly avoided if Ian cared about properly managing his illness.

Him cooking all hours of the night should've been the first sign that he was in the midst of an episode, but since he's as self involved as his siblings (especially the oldest two) he was perfectly comfortable brushing it off

Also, this wasn't a situation where the outcome was minor; as Rita & Sue told him, it was only by the grace of God that Kaylee wasn't killed. And with this show's infinitely disgusting handling of all things race, I have to wonder how forgiving viewers would be about Ian's behavior if Kaylee had been played by a white actress.

[iMonrey]

See, I'm not convinced that Ian was having a manic episode. I think it had more to do with the stress of breaking up with Caleb and that everyone mistook his behavior for mania because of his mental illness. That's what I felt he was dealing with - the realization that no matter what, if something happens to him people are going to assume "oh, it's your bipolar disorder kicking in." I just think he really, really sympathized with that patient and knew how terrified she was about being restrained. Dumb move, sure, but not something caused by his meds being off.

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Can a commercial store take over the lease of a homeless shelter, which usually is a government or church run establishment?

Sure. We don't know who owned it. It sort of looked like an old warehouse. The owner could have donated it to the city or a church to use as a shelter until they found a buyer for it.

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Shameless has thrown characters of color under the bus since the pilot.

Shameless has thrown every character under the bus, regardless of race. You name them, they've been thrown under the bus. Nobody walks away unscathed on this show. Few could argue the very worst characters on the show were the Milkoviches. They were just low, scum of the earth, irredeemable trash. So by your own logic the show is just as anti-white as you seem to think it is anti-black. After all, the worst characters are white. Show hates white people!

You seem to be asking the show to grant special status on people of color just to prove it isn't racist, on a show where every character by definition is horrible. 

[Dee]

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See, I'm not convinced that Ian was having a manic episode. I think it had more to do with the stress of breaking up with Caleb and that everyone mistook his behavior for mania because of his mental illness. That's what I felt he was dealing with - the realization that no matter what, if something happens to him people are going to assume "oh, it's your bipolar disorder kicking in." I just think he really, really sympathized with that patient and knew how terrified she was about being restrained. Dumb move, sure, but not something caused by his meds being off.

The show went through great pains to point out he was in the midst of a manic episode, with Fiona pointing out about his cooking at all hours, Sue acknowledging his reckless driving and excessive cleaning, and Rita dressing him down about his blatant regard for proper EMT protocol. These weren't blanket assumptions about him because they were uncomfortable dealing with, or ignorant about, his illness.

These were people he trusted, who he personally asked to treat him in this very manner, making legitimate unbiased judgment calls due to the evidence they witnessed first hand. Evidence Ian wanted to arbitrarily dismiss because he's more concerned with throwing himself a pity party than getting better.

He even tells Lip later, that he hasn't been sleeping, is never aware when he's manic and is acutely aware of the steps he needs to take when meds aren't working.

So he clearly knew there was a problem, and the proper steps to fix said problem, he just didn't want to deal.

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Shameless has thrown every character under the bus, regardless of race. You name them, they've been thrown under the bus. Nobody walks away unscathed on this show. Few could argue the very worst characters on the show were the Milkoviches. They were just low, scum of the earth, irredeemable trash. So by your own logic the show is just as anti-white as you seem to think it is anti-black. After all, the worst characters are white. Show hates white people!

I'm not playing your strawman game.

Shameless only humanizes its white characters. I stand by that statement.

When Nick bashed that kids head in nobody felt the need to elaborate on his backstory or illustrate his recovery. No, his whole existence was treated as a Scared Straight episode for Carl.

Same with Dom. She doesn't get the sweet treatment of Carl's previous love interest Bonnie or even the recurring skankiness of Holly & Ellie. No, she gets to be reduced to a fickle sex object who exists to do poor Carl wrong and be conveniently cast aside via a subplot that makes no sense based on her previous characterization.

Nobody encouraged Kenyatta to seek counseling for his domestic violence issues despite the fact that he and Mandy were supposedly a pretty serious couple. No, he existed solely to cause problems for Lip and Mandy and be the recipient of "ironic" racial barbs.

And Shameless was happy to make Amanda a glorified concubine and babysitter, in between stints as Lip's benefactor only to inexplicably turn her into a doormat so Lip would be free for Helene.

It's ironic you reference the Milkovich family because they're a perfect example of this in action.

They're a perpetually violent family full of murderers and career criminals yet Shameless has taken great pains to humanize them, no matter how disgusting their actions. Then when the show wrote/writes them into corners, their transgressions are either ignored or their every fault is blamed on Terry.

Mandy remorselessly ran Karen over & sexually assaulted Lip then not two episodes later is Lip staring at her all starry eyed & profusely thanking her for getting him into college.

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You seem to be asking the show to grant special status on people of color just to prove it isn't racist, on a show where every character by definition is horrible. 

Not what I said. At all.

What I've said was the characters of color on this show are never allowed to be three dimensional. They're allowed to be props for the white characters or convenient life lessons. They don't get to be flawed, fucked up and remain on the show with airtime and a point of view that is expected to be respected and/or sympathized with like heavily recurring non-Gallagher characters like Jimmy, and Karen and Sheila, etc.

Or as sazzat said above:

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Each of the disproportionately few black characters is more burdened with representing race, and since they aren't point of view characters we don't see a spectrum of their behavior...so when that behavior conforms to negative stereotypes, that's not the same to me as "everyone on Shameless is flawed."

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dee

[dezi]

1 hour ago, Dee said:

A "mistake" that could've been wholly avoided if Ian cared about properly managing his illness.

Him cooking all hours of the night should've been the first sign that he was in the midst of an episode, but since he's as self involved as his siblings (especially the oldest two) he was perfectly comfortable brushing it off

Also, this wasn't a situation where the outcome was minor; as Rita & Sue told him, it was only by the grace of God that Kaylee wasn't killed. And with this show's infinitely disgusting handling of all things race, I have to wonder how forgiving viewers would be about Ian's behavior if Kaylee had been played by a white actress.

Are you suggesting that untreated or mismanaged mental illness is due to the selfishness of the one experiencing it? Or does that just apply to Ian?

Even if they had used the palest white actress, this viewer would still appreciate that Ian wasn’t punished for his misguided compassion.

[Dee]

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Are you suggesting that untreated or mismanaged mental illness is due to the selfishness of the one experiencing it? Or does that just apply to Ian?

I'm not blaming Ian for his illness. Not in the least.

Where I do have a problem is Ian being purposefully derelict in keeping his own house in order and lashing out at people in his inner circle doing the very thing he asked them to do.

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Even if they had used the palest white actress, this viewer would still appreciate that Ian wasn’t punished for his misguided compassion.

It wasn't compassion though. It was hubris.

Ian assumed he knew better than Sue, despite the fact that Sue trusted him enough to let him go on a run, even with her initial misgivings, because she felt he could be of use.

But instead of Ian being ok with doing his part, and leaving it at that, he purposefully put his needs above a patients safety because of his own issues. Then he feels totally comfortable brushing off Kaylee's near death experience to argue with Rita & Sue.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

I have read the reasoning behind Shamless being unforgiving to people of color and being white washed. I still don't see it. People decide how they want to view a storyline.

If a person of color or anyone else who feels close to the issue feels like that is what Shameless is doing why on earth give Shameless the time of day? I wouldn't give it ratings therefore money. 

I had no remorse for white Karen. She had no reason for being such a dirty evil person. That is probably why the audience wasn't stoning Mandy because she hit EVIL KAREN. Not because oh Mandy was a white girl, and they wrote her to be forgiving. 

Two of the most hated characters on the show are white Frank and white Debbie. I mean at this point they will pretty much never be redeemable. Debbie raped someone, then tricked a teen into impregnating her. I do not feel bad for her. The writers can or cannot write her in whatever way they would like but no one gets a pass because of their socioeconomic status means rape is a bit more understandable. 

black Vee in an overall sense has gotten the absolute best edit of any female on the show. 

Dominque is a young girl who has gotten her cherry pooped now her crotch is on fire literally and figuratively. If a viewer wants to think of Dominique as an evil girl, but she is young and exploring. Not that evil or crazy to think. An older guy started paying attention to her. Of course it was bye Carl. I personally went through that as a teen. Hell that is life.

Mikey Malkovich was the only one they attempted to make appealing to the audience and that was connected to the being gay and Ian story. I still did not like him. He was an abuser. 

Carl's friend, the silent one, was given a backstory. It was not like the writers had him do a random driveby shooting. It was so much deeper than that. Deep enough if that you wanted to feel sorry for him you could. 

But....to summarize why watch a show  that does that?

[Dee]

People watch Shameless because they want to.

They don't need to justify why.

And the idea that the show is above criticism because you still enjoy it is absurd.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dee

[BunnyBlueBrown]

People criticize shows...dislike certain aspects of shows. I wouldn't call referring to Shameless as being racist as just another dislike about the show but oh well agree to disagree 

[Dee]

People are allowed to be critical of shows.

If you don't like or agree with their criticism, you have the option of not engaging.

And yes, this show remains racist as hell.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Dee

[Miles]

6 hours ago, Dee said:

Shameless has thrown characters of color under the bus since the pilot. And this show is anything but "racially blind."

Shameles has thrown every character under the bus since the pilot

7 hours ago, Dee said:

When characters and actors of color are afforded opportunities to lie, cheat, steal, assault, commit attempted murder, etc. with impunity while receiving copious amounts of airtime and sympathetic writing, like their white peers? Then we can discuss Shameless being "equitable."

V has done her fair share. Including cheating on her husband with a russian prostitute and getting rewarded with a 3-way-marriage for it.

Also Liam seems to be getting there. Just give him two seasons.

[Dee]

Quote

Shameles has thrown every character under the bus since the pilot

Not nearly in the same way.

Whenever characters of color who aren't Veronica are introduced, besides Carol, it's only a matter of time before they get turfed for something their white peers wouldn't.

Frank is a canon domestic abuser of both his wife and his children, yet the show brushes off his behavior as wacky hijinks. Kenyatta hits Mandy once, for cheating on him with Lip, and he's treated as an irredeemable thug.

Nick had as difficult an upbringing as, if not worse than, Carl's yet his background is used as reasons why he should be feared and intrinsically meant to be imprisoned, meanwhile Carl's constant violent behavior and illegal activities are brushed off as wacky hijinks.

Debbie gets pregnant by tricking Derek, yet the show labels him a coward and treats Debbie (who'd already raped one person) as a misguided scamp who committed a youthful indiscretion.

Kash is branded creepy scum for sleeping with Ian while Matty and Lloyd are afforded tons of layers and sympathetic writing to excuse their ephebophilia.

And so on and so forth....

Quote

V has done her fair share. Including cheating on her husband with a russian prostitute and getting rewarded with a 3-way-marriage for it.

Vee really hasn't.

She was immediately forthcoming to, and emotionally honest with, Kev about sleeping with Svetlana, before she even really had processed her own feelings about everything which is way more consideration than Kev ever extended her about his dorm shenanigans or his handjob antics.

Vee & Svet's marriage was initially only about convenience (thanks to Kev) that only happened because Kevin couldn't marry Svetlana (without consulting Vee) himself.

Quote

Also Liam seems to be getting there. Just give him two seasons.

Considering Shameless is in its twilight years and the show has done everything it can to keep Liam from aging or...doing anything, really. I sincerely doubt that will happen.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Dee

[racked]

So why would a Rhodes scholar be so desperate to have a shitty unpaid internship at a shady tech start up? I hate that BS storyline. 

Ian and Lip should defintely be contributing and Debbie should be in jail but how is Carl supposed to help pay rent? 

[Empress1]

11 hours ago, Miles said:

 

22 hours ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

And oh please, men are going to whip out hundreds of dollars to get Kev to move the van? Right. Splash it with paint, maybe. But pay big money? Ugh, stupid.

In the right neighbourhood I could see it. Upper crust enough that people wouldn't want to get their hands dirty and have enough money so that paying somebody a few hudnred is nothing to them, not so upper crust that ti's a gated community with guards. Not sure how long Kev will have until he runs out of the right turf though.

Me too. Having it towed takes time. Vandalizing it takes effort and it would still be an eyesore. Throwing a couple hundred bucks at the issue to make it go away takes neither if a couple hundred bucks doesn't matter to you.

Ian, Lip, and Debbie should definitely pay. Ian and Lip are over 18 and no longer Fiona's responsibility. Debbie is under 18 but decided she wanted to be grown and have a baby, so she gets everything that comes with it. Carl, though, is a minor still in school. Fiona can't legally let him fend for himself. An after-school job would be good for him but the consequences for not getting one shouldn't - can't - be homelessness. And this whole "I'm-a do me" thing from Fiona is bullshit in light of the past two seasons, as has been said.

I'm all for paying dues but I'll be damned if I change a catheter at an office job. Medical field? Fine. As a caregiver for a loved one? Fine. Anywhere else? I quit. I'm tempted to send that question into Ask a Manager and see what she says.

[preeya]

45 minutes ago, racked said:

So why would a Rhodes scholar be so desperate to have a shitty unpaid internship at a shady tech start up? I hate that BS storyline. 

Ian and Lip should definitely be contributing and Debbie should be in jail but how is Carl supposed to help pay rent? 

Didn't Carl have a stash of cash from when he was into his criminal activities?

[queenbee9b]

3 minutes ago, preeya said:

Didn't Carl have a stash of cash from when he was into his criminal activities?

I think he used it all for his circumsion the previous week.  They showed him digging it back up and he says it is the end of it.

[Nordly Beaumont]

42 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Upper crust enough that people wouldn't want to get their hands dirty and have enough money so that paying somebody a few hudnred is nothing to them, not so upper crust that ti's a gated community with guards. Not sure how long Kev will have until he runs out of the right turf though.

And the right turf means he has to find people who are outside to notice. People in these upper  crust communities are working. Or going to the car with a million things on their mind. If they go outside to get the paper, Kev would have to know who gets a physical paper and be at each of those houses early in the morning. And the ones who are outside playing with their kids would have to be in the front yard and not the back yard at the exact time Kev had the van parked in their street. Too many variables for me to believe in a big payout happening often.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Nordly Beaumont

[NorthstarATL]

2 hours ago, Dee said:

Not nearly in the same way.

Whenever characters of color who aren't Veronica are introduced, besides Carol, it's only a matter of time before they get turfed for something their white peers wouldn't.

Frank is a canon domestic abuser of both his wife and his children, yet the show brushes off his behavior as wacky hijinks. Kenyatta hits Mandy once, for cheating on him with Lip, and he's treated as an irredeemable thug.

Nick had as difficult an upbringing as, if not worse than, Carl's yet his background is used as reasons why he should be feared and intrinsically meant to be imprisoned, meanwhile Carl's constant violent behavior and illegal activities are brushed off as wacky hijinks.

Debbie gets pregnant by tricking Derek, yet the show labels him a coward and treats Debbie (who'd already raped one person) as a misguided scamp who committed a youthful indiscretion.

Kash is branded creepy scum for sleeping with Ian while Matty and Lloyd are afforded tons of layers and sympathetic writing to excuse their ephebophilia.

And so on and so forth....

Vee really hasn't.

She was immediately forthcoming to, and emotionally honest with, Kev about sleeping with Svetlana, before she even really had processed her own feelings about everything which is way more consideration than Kev ever extended her about his dorm shenanigans or his handjob antics.

Vee & Svet's marriage was initially only about convenience (thanks to Kev) that only happened because Kevin couldn't marry Svetlana (without consulting Vee) himself.

Considering Shameless is in its twilight years and the show has done everything it can to keep Liam from aging or...doing anything, really. I sincerely doubt that will happen.

The show is basically what it is: a depiction of the awful Gallagher family. That they are largely white is a premise of the series. The original supporting characters, AFAIK, were developed according to their depictions on the British show upon which Shameless is based. The Gallaghers as the core of the show get the least amount of repercussions for their bad acts, but that's more because they are central than because they are white. We all see things through different lenses, though, and I respect your position. I just don't think the intent is there on the part of the writers. They are far too inconsistent to have an agenda.

   Fiona, as usual, is totally out of character with her original portrayal. I could have seen her laying down the law about everyone pulling his/her weight, and pointing out that if they could not work something out about her being the emergency call they would not have food or shelter, but Original Recipe Fiona would try to work out something that worked FOR the family, not in spite of it. That had always been her goal. But, again, the writers have been all over the place with her, as well as with the other characters. Let's see if Fiona's plan gets derailed by her falling for the wrong guy, as usual.

   I like Ian, but his job situation was tenuous, and he's now endangering others. They need to fire him.

 I figured Carl's GF was the one with the STD when the father first showed up. As I've said before, you do not put yourself under the knife for anyone else.

[whiporee]

9 hours ago, sazzat said:

They live in a neighborhood where 90-95% of the faces around them should be people of color, and while the show casts more diversely than a typical show with a white family as the focus, they're nowhere near showing the actual racial makeup of this neighborhood.

I haven't lived in Chicago for a long time, and lived on the North side, but I don't think that stat's correct. If they lived in the near South Side, which I would imagine they do, then the breakdown is closer to 40 percent. There are some Russian and Polish and still some Irish enclaves there that are pretty closed -- I remember once hearing that Chicago had the world's second largest Polish-speaking population. So I think you might be wrong in assuming people of color make up the majorities of Chicago's close-in neighborhoods, because I don't think that's the case. Chicago is a city that splits ethnically more than most I've seen -- it wouldn't surprise me that a neighborhood that historically had been Irish and Russian wouldn't have a lot of people of color there. 

In case anyone cares, he's some data that seems to back that up:http://statisticalatlas.com/neighborhood/Illinois/Chicago/Near-South-Side/Race-and-Ethnicity

Edited October 18, 2016 by whiporee

[Dee]

18 minutes ago, NorthstarATL said:

The Gallaghers as the core of the show get the least amount of repercussions for their bad acts, but that's more because they are central than because they are white.

I'd venture it's more than a bit of both.

However I'd be willing to cut the show a bit of slack if the Gallaghers exhibited even half the affection for just Vee, who is supposed to be 'family,' as she does them. And I'm not talking bigger commitments like trying to help she and Kev pay their bills or volunteering to work shifts at the Alibi. But simple stuff like Fiona offering to watch the twins so Vee can nap or Carl giving a shit when Vee's spotting, or Lip riding Kev's ass for mistreating his wife.

The fact that Carl, especially, could care less about a woman who changed his diapers, actively helped raise him & his siblings and was willing to risk her & her husband's entire life to get his sister (his family's supposed guardian) out of jail, makes Shameless agenda when it comes to treating its characters of color as three dimensional human beings pretty clear.

[stagmania]

8 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Ian, Lip, and Debbie should definitely pay. Ian and Lip are over 18 and no longer Fiona's responsibility. Debbie is under 18 but decided she wanted to be grown and have a baby, so she gets everything that comes with it. Carl, though, is a minor still in school. Fiona can't legally let him fend for himself. An after-school job would be good for him but the consequences for not getting one shouldn't - can't - be homelessness. And this whole "I'm-a do me" thing from Fiona is bullshit in light of the past two seasons, as has been said.

But since when do Ian and Lip and Debbie not pay? This has been the premise of the show from the very start-they ALL contribute. Even when Debbie was 10 years old, she was running a daycare out of the house. We know Carl contributed a ton of money during his brush with drug and arms dealing. So this whole idea that Fiona has been keeping things afloat all on her own (as a diner waitress?) just came out of thin air. Plus, remember in season 5 when she randomly decided to live with Gus and abandon the kids she's responsible for without so much as a conversation? The writers can't seem to remember any of this stuff, so it's really hard to take this storyline seriously.

7 hours ago, NorthstarATL said:

Fiona, as usual, is totally out of character with her original portrayal. I could have seen her laying down the law about everyone pulling his/her weight, and pointing out that if they could not work something out about her being the emergency call they would not have food or shelter, but Original Recipe Fiona would try to work out something that worked FOR the family, not in spite of it. That had always been her goal. But, again, the writers have been all over the place with her, as well as with the other characters. Let's see if Fiona's plan gets derailed by her falling for the wrong guy, as usual.

Fiona used to be my favorite character, and I am just so sad about what they've done to her. There are ways to have stories about her craving independence and freedom without betraying her core principles, but everything about her characterization for the last three seasons has been so sloppy.

[sazzat]

8 hours ago, whiporee said:

If they lived in the near South Side, which I would imagine they do, then the breakdown is closer to 40 percent.

They live in Back of the Yards (I mean, their address is made up, but they've referred to being in Back of the Yards on the show). It's part of the New City neighborhood, which is 12% white. The majority of the neighborhood is Hispanic, then 28% black. It was a mostly-white area until the mid-twentieth century and there were a lot of Irish immigrants in Canaryville nearby, so I can kind of get why the creators picked it, but the way they show it now is outdated. It's not unusual to have people of the same race or ethnicity settle on the same block, but in terms of the neighborhood as a whole and the people you see at school, at the store, in the bar, it should be a lot more diverse than they depict.

[whiporee]

I guess we see it differently. Whenever they've shown the school, I've seen a lot of racial diversity. Not on the block or in the bar, but where there would be "forced" integration (ie, a central location everyone had to go to), I've thought that was more representative than the block and bar scenes. 

[ralph]

I appreciate Fiona's new found commitment to herself but how many times has this happened? At least twice right? Poor, self sacrificing Fiona who puts her happiness second to taking care of her family, vows to change things, to look out for herself and put herself first....then she slowly regresses back without the viewers even noticing, until she makes the same vow again.

[BunnyBlueBrown]

14 minutes ago, ralph said:

I appreciate Fiona's new found commitment to herself but how many times has this happened? At least twice right? Poor, self sacrificing Fiona who puts her happiness second to taking care of her family, vows to change things, to look out for herself and put herself first....then she slowly regresses back without the viewers even noticing, until she makes the same vow again.

Ha yep that is why I eye rolled and said AGAIN Fiona...yeah okay sure mmhhmm

[Tatum]

I know I am preaching to the choir here, but god this show is ridiculous with rewriting history. Since when were Lip and Ian not contributing to the bottom line? In Season 1, Lip and Ian both worked steady gigs while in school. And then, even when Lip went away to college,  he was still stealing shit from the University and bringing it home. And Carl is the one that got Fiona that house, without a mortgage payment, so the idea that he needs to, at age 15, contribute towards household expenses or get thrown out is ridiculous. And $300-$400 a month? From 4 kids? With no mortgage, car payments, or car insurance?  What the hell are Fiona's bills every month that she needs that kind of money?  It smacks to me of, I gave up my teen years (even though she's now like 26) for you guys and now I want to be compensated for that lost time.

 

Also, since when was Debbie not in school? Didn't they just show her last week going to class, bragging about her nanny?

 

I don't like the start up company storyline at all. While I agree it's nice for Lip to learn a little humility, the "intern" job seems more like a protracted Hell Week for a frat boy wanna be than a legit springboard to a higher position.  I think Lip's superior is full of shit. His big selling point was that the previous unpaid servant/intern went on to get a marketing job at $100K annually? I think an Ivy League valedictorian could get there without changing piss bags.

Edited October 20, 2016 by Tatum

[stagmania]

On 10/19/2016 at 0:58 PM, ralph said:

I appreciate Fiona's new found commitment to herself but how many times has this happened? At least twice right? Poor, self sacrificing Fiona who puts her happiness second to taking care of her family, vows to change things, to look out for herself and put herself first....then she slowly regresses back without the viewers even noticing, until she makes the same vow again.

The plots have been going in circles for years. The writers seem unable/unwilling to commit to actual change. Season 4 was the exception (and I don't think it's a coincidence that it's the season that got them the most praise and critical attention), and they were poised to make the leap and actually let their characters grow-and then Season 5 started and they hit the reset button and failed to follow through on almost everything they had set up. For me, that was when things started really going off the rails, and they never bounced back.