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The very last one.

 

I had to really think about that for a while.

 

So 17 minutes gets reimagined as 17 years. Kudos to the writers for that detail.  

 

While I hated Kat from the start at least she served one excellent purpose.

 

No matter what the Director or his minions do, fate still exists.

Edited by MrsR
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On episode 8, saw Christopher Hyerdahl was in it and said "oh, no." He's a good actor and am sure he must be a nice guy because shows keep him long after his characters should have been killed off but he mainly plays disturbing characters. Then his character vomited up an eyeball and my fears were confirmed.

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Finished! That was an excellent season. This show has really lived up to it's early potential. The finale was very intriguing. I don't know if there will be a season four but obviously there would have to be some kind of reset. 

It was obvious pretty early on that 001 was in Jeff. It's strange but no matter who 001 goes into i always picture Enrico Colantoni. 

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3 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

On episode 8, saw Christopher Hyerdahl was in it and said "oh, no." He's a good actor and am sure he must be a nice guy because shows keep him long after his characters should have been killed off but he mainly plays disturbing characters. Then his character vomited up an eyeball and my fears were confirmed.

Exactly what I was thinking. I got to that episode and turned the show off CH usually plays the same character and one that I never like. 

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Just watched episode 9.  Still crying.   The world needs more Davids. 

ETA: Finished the binge.  I'm hoping for a Season 4....but I'm ok if it doesn't happen. I wonder what the protocols would be for 2.0.  Would there be new Travelers? Would the old ones get new missions?  

Edited by gryphon · Reason: ETA more thoughts
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Just finished. I really hope there is a season 4! I liked the happy ending for Marcy, but how did they magically fix her mental capacity since it was a reset? And she just happens to be a nurse?

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Finished it today and it was a great season. The last 3 episodes were HORRIBLE just because they were brought out all of my emotions. That is a proper way to send off a character. 

15 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

Finished! That was an excellent season. This show has really lived up to it's early potential. The finale was very intriguing. I don't know if there will be a season four but obviously there would have to be some kind of reset. 

It was obvious pretty early on that 001 was in Jeff. It's strange but no matter who 001 goes into i always picture Enrico Colantoni. 

I will be very surprised if there isnt a S4 since this is the first season that fully took the show over so getting rid of it so early seems useless.

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Just got done watching the season. Wow.

First, great job with the Jeff character. While I was screaming for something to happen to Jeff to make him pay for all his shit, I did not see him becoming a traveler. And to the actor's credit, he did a fantastic job with his new personality. Like snowwhyte said, it was pretty obvious that he was taken over by 001 fairly early on. I was joking that the traveler in his body was probably like "this guy is a douche, everyone hates him, and this is the best body I could jump into?"

Poor Philip, having to see all those possible timelines. Although I get why he flushed the pills, because he didn't want to be medicated anymore, but it has to be rough not knowing what is real and what's not. As well as it being a safety hazard. During the last ep I was so sure he was going to get hit by a car, cause homie was just walking around in a daze. (Although I will NOT forgive them for that tease of him and Carly)

Speaking of Carly, if we do get a season 4, can we please have something go right for her? Philips flashes of her in other timelines were mostly bad stuff (her dying, getting arrested for presumably killing the neighbors boyfriend) I didn't like how they decided to retcon her relationship with Mac. They had more than "a moment", but hey whatever. After thinking about it, I'm kinda glad they took the baby away. With Jeff becoming a traveler as well, there's no way it would have been healthy (or safe) for him to grow up in that environment, but damn if it wasn't heart-tugging sad.

Trevor! Oh my God Trevor. My heart broke nearly every time he "froze" especially after we knew what was happening to him. He was so stoic in his decision to give up his host body, but I'm glad they managed to save him. A part of me was wondering if they would actually go through with it, but I'm glad they didn't. I can't imagine that team with a new engineer.

Grace to the rescue! She was amazing this season, used just the right amount. Every time she showed up, I was like "Grace is here!" then "Oh God, Grace is here." Her propositioning Trevor and him trying to let her down easy was funny at first, but then got so sad later. Thankfully she used her motivation to keep the Trevor that we know with us. Her funniest exchange has to be with the priest:

"May the Lord work through you."

"May you get a real job, someday"

"GRACE!"

Marcy willing to go 100% in to stop the faction. Damn girl, talk about commitment.  Though I really think a big part of her not hesitating was because of David.

David! The MVP of the season, IMO. He started out annoying me with all his "I wanna get buff, so I can be tough like you" talk, but I can understand why he would go that route. When he was inside the archive place and got shot, I swear my heart stopped. Then when he dismantled the bomb and touched the core with his bare hands, I didn't get too sad, cause I just KNEW someone would come help at the last minute...guess me and Marcy were both in for a surprise.

Mac. Wouldn't it have been better for him to let Kat divorce her "husband", and let her go live her life somewhere else? I mean that's what he ended up doing at the end. He could have avoided all his distractions and trying to convince her he was the man she married. It could still fall under Protocol 5, after all, agents get divorced all the time.....

This is long enough,and I'm sure I'm forgetting stuff, but all in all, a great season 3. I really hope there's a season 4. I would love to see how everything turns out this go round.

Also: Did it seem to anyone else that they upped the swearing this season? I didn't mind it, but the amount of F bombs were literally everywhere by everyone.

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4 hours ago, nekilarose said:

Mac. Wouldn't it have been better for him to let Kat divorce her "husband", and let her go live her life somewhere else? I mean that's what he ended up doing at the end. He could have avoided all his distractions and trying to convince her he was the man she married. It could still fall under Protocol 5, after all, agents get divorced all the time.....

 

He talked about the echoes of his host being about how much he loved her and I think he just wanted to be married to her. There’s are all kinds of implications with that, but I’d say one of the show’s themes has been what people want and he wanted her. Letting her go would have been the right moral decision.

 

This is one of those shows I loved from episode 1 onwards. I’d be fine with season 4 happening with the same cast or a new cast, or season 3 being the end. Kudos for that because I’m not sure how they did it.

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I just finished my Season 3 binge.  A worthy end if we never got another season, but I can't help but wonder what is the shape of Traveler Program 2.0?  Different protocols?  Different team structures?  A different approach to missions?  Allowing Helios to happen?  I have so many questions!

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I will be so sad if this is the last of Travelers, because it was probably my favorite sci-fi show on TV and so well done!  But if this WAS the end, then it was a good ending.  I especially loved that they showed Marcy and David meeting.  Even though that's not the Marcy that David fell in love with, it's satisfying to know they might get to really know each other and have a life together.  I kind of wonder if they ended it in this way in order to explain an entire new Traveler team if the show gets renewed, especially with Eric McCormack back to doing Will & Grace.  Maybe the actor didn't want to do both anymore, and this allows them to continue the show with new actors if they want.  I'll be sad, because these actors were all AMAZING, but I'm in for whatever they decide to do, even if it's having this be the last season.

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So Maclaren of 2001 died in the WTC?

If there's no Traveler program I guess that means Philip died of a heroin overdose, Carly got beaten to death by Jeff, Jeff Junior went to foster care, and Trevor was a bully who died of blows to the head. I know they weren't actually our Philip, Carly, and Trevor but I feel kind of bad about that.

During David's short time with Marcy he was almost killed by an assassin, kidnapped and drugged by 001, beaten up a few times, secretly injected with forgetting drugs, and finally trapped in a bunker with a nuclear weapon. Had he not died do we think he ever would wise up to the fact that all these things are happening to him because of Marcy and she's not worth it. Marcy is just bland, and boring, and the actress apparently was absent from acting class when they learned about variable facial expressions. Was actually not remotely sorry to have her die. Too bad we couldn't save David and have him really join the team. I liked David.

All told, I like this show a lot and I'd like to see more. Just no more Marcy please. Just get an old blond floor mop to stand in for her.

Most important unanswered question: What happened to Poppy?

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On 2018-12-17 at 8:34 PM, SpectreH said:

I just finished my Season 3 binge.  A worthy end if we never got another season, but I can't help but wonder what is the shape of Traveler Program 2.0?  Different protocols?  Different team structures?  A different approach to missions?  Allowing Helios to happen?  I have so many questions!

 

 I guess it could be as simple as 001 not screwing things up. The first attempt didn’t go as planned and put everyone in their back foot. You also get into the question of if the decline of humanity in the original verse is inevitable and The Director can’t change the end result. You’d just get version 10010445: failure

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On 12/14/2018 at 10:31 PM, MrsR said:

So 17 minutes gets reimagined as 17 years. Kudos to the writers for that detail.  

Can you remind me what the 17 minutes refers to? There was so much going on in this episode (and in the whole series) that I must have missed or forgotten that.

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1 hour ago, Paloma said:

Can you remind me what the 17 minutes refers to? There was so much going on in this episode (and in the whole series) that I must have missed or forgotten that.

17 minutes was the name of the Groundhog Day episode. The one with the parachute jump that kept being reset.   Just like the Director did at the end of the season.  

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Just binged the final three episodes. I don't think I'm capable of feeling anything again after that. Never have two TV deaths been that devastating to me. Not even a certain wedding scene or the Ultimate Excedrin Headache™ in Game of Thrones got me like those two. 

As for the fate of the show, what I'm hoping is they're given a fourth season and told it will be their last, but could it work? The premise is excellent but I think the narrative has almost run its course. I don't know the show could survive a hard reset, either with new characters or old characters being reintroduced from scratch. Only way I'm thinking is everything goes back to some critical point from S3, at which the timeline diverges, and Protocol Omega never gets called into play.

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On 12/19/2018 at 6:48 PM, zibnchy said:

So Maclaren of 2001 died in the WTC?

If there's no Traveler program I guess that means Philip died of a heroin overdose, Carly got beaten to death by Jeff, Jeff Junior went to foster care, and Trevor was a bully who died of blows to the head. I know they weren't actually our Philip, Carly, and Trevor but I feel kind of bad about that.

During David's short time with Marcy he was almost killed by an assassin, kidnapped and drugged by 001, beaten up a few times, secretly injected with forgetting drugs, and finally trapped in a bunker with a nuclear weapon. Had he not died do we think he ever would wise up to the fact that all these things are happening to him because of Marcy and she's not worth it. Marcy is just bland, and boring, and the actress apparently was absent from acting class when they learned about variable facial expressions. Was actually not remotely sorry to have her die. Too bad we couldn't save David and have him really join the team. I liked David.

All told, I like this show a lot and I'd like to see more. Just no more Marcy please. Just get an old blond floor mop to stand in for her.

Most important unanswered question: What happened to Poppy?

I don't know if the WTC attack happened in his timeline... he kept looking out the window but was surprised to not see a plane- so he was expecting to die, but didn't... I hope that means we will still have Mac in the next season... really all of the actors were such a family, I wouldn't want to miss out on any of them... And as far as we know the other deaths haven't happened yet. (It also makes me wonder what the ripple effect was that Mac changed 9/11 from happening? )

Did we know how long 001 was capturing/killing traveler teams? He definitely could have been screwing up missions that might have made a difference, hence causing the failure of the program. The director also obviously chose the wrong person to be 001 since he freaked out and didn't want to die (which i get, but still) 

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5 hours ago, roctavia said:

I don't know if the WTC attack happened in his timeline... he kept looking out the window but was surprised to not see a plane- so he was expecting to die, but didn't...

Was he in NY? I thought the setting is supposed to be Washington State? What did I miss? And he was sent back before the attacks, in August.

 

I am still a little confused about how things got reseted. Mac knew what to do, so he has memory from he failed program. Marcy meets David but she does't have an intellectual disability anymore. How is this possible? And while the first travelers program happened in/around 2017-2018, the second one is in 2001, which would put Marcy at what, 10 years old? If the new program will use the same bodies, they should get new actors, at least for the young ones because it makes no sense at all.

Unless I missed yet another detail.

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2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Was he in NY? I thought the setting is supposed to be Washington State? What did I miss? And he was sent back before the attacks, in August.

 

I am still a little confused about how things got reseted. Mac knew what to do, so he has memory from he failed program. Marcy meets David but she does't have an intellectual disability anymore. How is this possible? And while the first travelers program happened in/around 2017-2018, the second one is in 2001, which would put Marcy at what, 10 years old? If the new program will use the same bodies, they should get new actors, at least for the young ones because it makes no sense at all.

Unless I missed yet another detail.

He was sent back earlier, but waited until 9/11 to send the message to the director through the special email at the WTC office where 001 initially came through. He just sent the email a few minutes earlier to stop the director from starting the traveler program. Then I think he expected to die when the planes crashed. Maybe they crash after all, but to me it seemed like Grant checking his watch meant the planes were not hitting at the right time... so hopefully that means he lives and we can have Grant in the new season. I suspect we may get some other new characters though.

 

The other stuff we saw was at different times..: so we jumped forward a bit to see Marcy meet David. Last season we learned that Marcy was a nurse, but 001 was one of her patients and he experimented on her trying to build his machine, so he made her mentally disabled. Without him she was normal. And could have met David a year or two before the travelers originally formed the team. 

Edited by roctavia
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4 hours ago, roctavia said:

He was sent back earlier, but waited until 9/11 to send the message to the director through the special email at the WTC office where 001 initially came through. He just sent the email a few minutes earlier to stop the director from starting the traveler program. Then I think he expected to die when the planes crashed. Maybe they crash after all, but to me it seemed like Grant checking his watch meant the planes were not hitting at the right time... so hopefully that means he lives and we can have Grant in the new season. I suspect we may get some other new characters though.

 

The other stuff we saw was at different times..: so we jumped forward a bit to see Marcy meet David. Last season we learned that Marcy was a nurse, but 001 was one of her patients and he experimented on her trying to build his machine, so he made her mentally disabled. Without him she was normal. And could have met David a year or two before the travelers originally formed the team. 

Ah... Thanks for the recap. I think I was dozing off as I watched it because I missed the date/time (plus everything else, haha)

I don't remember the episode they showed Rico Colantoni leaving the WTC, therefore escaping his death but maybe Mac also had time/decided to leave? Probably something the writers hope to explore.

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That felt like a series finale to me. Given what we know about Showcase dropping the show and Netflix producing it on their own, I'd say the most likely scenario is that Netflix simply wanted to wrap up the story since they had been streaming the first two seasons and they didn't want to leave it on the second season's cliff hanger. Notice there were only 10 episodes this season versus the 13 of the previous two seasons.

Really enjoyed it overall, there was much more of an emotional punch to it than there had been in previous seasons. I grew to care a lot more about the characters than I had before too. One thing I kind of wished was that they had just let Trevor get over-written by another traveler. I thought that would have been an interesting story to tell because you get a new character, essentially, without losing the actor. I bet the actor would have loved the challenge as well. 

Quote

If there's no Traveler program I guess that means Philip died of a heroin overdose, Carly got beaten to death by Jeff, Jeff Junior went to foster care, and Trevor was a bully who died of blows to the head. I

Yikes, I didn't even think about that. I like the closure we got with Maclaren and Kat, although her resentment that she never got to be with her old boyfriend felt a little out of the blue and convenient. And of course I loved the scene where Marcy and David meet on the bus. But I never thought about Philip, Carly and Trevor dying the way they were meant to. Grace too.

Still, I honestly don't know how a fourth season would look at this point. I think if they did some sort of re-set where the same travelers come back and inhabit the same bodies it would feel like a cheat and diminish the emotional impact of this season's finale.

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Wow. The last two episodes were super intense. I had insomnia this weekend so I watched the last three episodes or so in the wee hours of the morning. I was sobbing so loudly during David's episode that I thought for sure I was going to wake up my husband even though we were in separate rooms.

I agree with others it does feel like a series finale instead of a season finale. If the show is done, I'll miss it, but it did end on a fairly satisfying note. I started watching this show and Timeless at the same time, and I dumped Timeless very quickly because this show was so excellent.

About the 9/11 sequence, I think that based on the clock during that scene, that 9/11 was averted. If I remember correctly, the second plane hit shortly after 9, and the clock showed 9:32. Although, I wish they would have stretched the final sequence into a single episode instead of about 17 minutes or so as stated above. I feel it would have cleared up alot of confusion as noted by the folks who've posted.

Overall, I really found all the characters enjoyable except for Katherine. I thought the actor who played Jeff did a great job with the various personalities he was asked to play. Even though Jeff was a terrible human, he added to the mix of the events well and was a great adversary. Katherine's character was just obnoxious, and I really didn't see any redeeming qualities in her. However, the feminist in me wonders why I give male asshole characters more of a pass than female characters in most shows. I think really the only villainess I love to hate is Cersei from GoT. Maybe it's because my brain tries so hard to avoid female stereotypes that I automatically put female pains-in-the-ass in the bad female stereotype box even if they might not deserve it. Oh well. Enough babbling and pop-psychology introspection.

I'll keep an eye out for news on the show's future.

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I just finished this today and pretty much agree that it seemed more like a series ending and I could be ok with that, but I wouldn't mind if they continued.

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On 12/15/2018 at 6:24 AM, snowwhyte said:

It was obvious pretty early on that 001 was in Jeff. It's strange but no matter who 001 goes into i always picture Enrico Colantoni. 

I know, right? EC made it his own - and the actors who followed him managed to keep his "voice."

On 12/15/2018 at 9:53 PM, TimetoShine said:

@McMarty Since the Director doesn’t send 001 back, 001 can’t do the experiments or whatever that injured Marcy. Marcy was a nurse before 001 screwed her up and over. 

I'd forgotten that, thanks.

On 12/24/2018 at 10:53 PM, roctavia said:

I don't know if the WTC attack happened in his timeline... he kept looking out the window but was surprised to not see a plane- so he was expecting to die, but didn't... I hope that means we will still have Mac in the next season... really all of the actors were such a family, I wouldn't want to miss out on any of them... And as far as we know the other deaths haven't happened yet. (It also makes me wonder what the ripple effect was that Mac changed 9/11 from happening? )

I was, huh, so McClaren's wife turning him down stopped the terrorists. Weird. LOL.

On 12/25/2018 at 2:56 PM, iMonrey said:

That felt like a series finale to me. Given what we know about Showcase dropping the show and Netflix producing it on their own, I'd say the most likely scenario is that Netflix simply wanted to wrap up the story since they had been streaming the first two seasons and they didn't want to leave it on the second season's cliff hanger. Notice there were only 10 episodes this season versus the 13 of the previous two seasons.

Really enjoyed it overall, there was much more of an emotional punch to it than there had been in previous seasons. I grew to care a lot more about the characters than I had before too. One thing I kind of wished was that they had just let Trevor get over-written by another traveler. I thought that would have been an interesting story to tell because you get a new character, essentially, without losing the actor. I bet the actor would have loved the challenge as well. 

Yikes, I didn't even think about that. I like the closure we got with Maclaren and Kat, although her resentment that she never got to be with her old boyfriend felt a little out of the blue and convenient. And of course I loved the scene where Marcy and David meet on the bus. But I never thought about Philip, Carly and Trevor dying the way they were meant to. Grace too.

Still, I honestly don't know how a fourth season would look at this point. I think if they did some sort of re-set where the same travelers come back and inhabit the same bodies it would feel like a cheat and diminish the emotional impact of this season's finale.

I thought it felt like a series finale too - until the reset at the end. I love the idea of a reset - when it's used well, it's a lot of fun and opens up the possibilities. So for me personally, I don't think it would be a cheat if they all came back. Of course, that depends very much on how it's handled. But so far they've handled everything very well.

David annoyed me a fair bit this season, but I was heartbroken when he died. That was handled beautifully.

I also thought it would be a lot more interesting to have Trevor overwritten, though his character is kind of the emotional anchor of the team, so I guess it's better to have him glitching out than be someone different.

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9/11 not happening would be a crazy change. I guess it would be the Director or something/someone else.

 

8 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

Overall, I really found all the characters enjoyable except for Katherine. I thought the actor who played Jeff did a great job with the various personalities he was asked to play. Even though Jeff was a terrible human, he added to the mix of the events well and was a great adversary. Katherine's character was just obnoxious, and I really didn't see any redeeming qualities in her. However, the feminist in me wonders why I give male asshole characters more of a pass than female characters in most shows. I think really the only villainess I love to hate is Cersei from GoT. Maybe it's because my brain tries so hard to avoid female stereotypes that I automatically put female pains-in-the-ass in the bad female stereotype box even if they might not deserve it. Oh well. Enough babbling and pop-psychology introspection.

 

The actor who played Jeff+ did an amazing job. The whole Jeff storyline was really well done and he  knocked it out of the park.

 

I think Katherine makes more sense if you look at her as a character who has been through something the entire time. Her husband is replaced by a stranger (yes, him having sex with her...)  and starts acting differently, she ends up pregnant and estranged from said husband, she has a late term miscarriage, she’s kidnapped and then drugged to forget about it, and the drug doesn’t work perfectly so her husband lies to and gaslights her. I’m not sure we ever really got to know her without something going on around her. Maybe some people didn’t find her likeable but she spends 3 seasons going through something appalling and unsettling. She was really good for showing some of the darker parts of the travelers and the toll it could take on the people closest to them. They didn’t do much to show her beyond that, though.

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9 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

I think Katherine makes more sense if you look at her as a character who has been through something the entire time. Her husband is replaced by a stranger (yes, him having sex with her...)  and starts acting differently, she ends up pregnant and estranged from said husband, she has a late term miscarriage, she’s kidnapped and then drugged to forget about it, and the drug doesn’t work perfectly so her husband lies to and gaslights her. I’m not sure we ever really got to know her without something going on around her. Maybe some people didn’t find her likeable but she spends 3 seasons going through something appalling and unsettling. She was really good for showing some of the darker parts of the travelers and the toll it could take on the people closest to them. They didn’t do much to show her beyond that, though.

Every time I started hating Katherine, I thought of all of this. I wasn't all that fond of her before she started realizing something was wrong - but I can give her some slack because - she's not wrong. No matter how nice McClaren is, how much he's picked up his host body's affection for her,  he's not her husband. The fact that the real McClaren would have been long dead doesn't really factor in to it, because he did "steal" his host body's life with Protocol 5 (I believe). And besides, Katherine doesn't know that, and the FBI agents who do still view it as murder.

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14 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

She was really good for showing some of the darker parts of the travelers and the toll it could take on the people closest to them. They didn’t do much to show her beyond that, though.

I am glad they didn't paint all the relationships surrounding the travelers in a positive light; it wouldn't have seemed realistic. However, I wish the show would have spent more time showing what Katherine was like before the travelers arrived. We would have been able to see the original Katherine in order to understand why she was reacting the way she was. I started watching the show again, and I felt there really wasn't enough time showing who she was before the shit hit the fan to make her sympathetic in my eyes.

Oh well. It's nitpicking really. The fact that folks watching the same show can interpret the characters differently (some positive, some negative) is just another example of how interesting and well done this show is.

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4 hours ago, Catfi9ht said:

I am glad they didn't paint all the relationships surrounding the travelers in a positive light; it wouldn't have seemed realistic. However, I wish the show would have spent more time showing what Katherine was like before the travelers arrived. We would have been able to see the original Katherine in order to understand why she was reacting the way she was. I started watching the show again, and I felt there really wasn't enough time showing who she was before the shit hit the fan to make her sympathetic in my eyes.

Oh well. It's nitpicking really. The fact that folks watching the same show can interpret the characters differently (some positive, some negative) is just another example of how interesting and well done this show is.

 

Yeah, I think they didn’t do a good job of making her more than a largely unknowing victim of the traveler program or fleshing out what she was like before it started. She was a big enough character to warrant some time spent on that. We got to see more of characters like Jeff (the abuser, him when he was sober, him relapsing, his job) and David (his job and connections forged through it) than Katherine. I mean, original Marcie and her story was effectively shown. Maybe she still wouldn’t have been likeable for you or I wouldn’t have spent the whole time feeling sorry for her but we didn’t get to find out. 

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So, the show forum was kicked out of my list of following contents, it is not listed on the "T" forums, and the only topic that comes up in "other T shows" is this one. This is also the only topic that comes up on the search results. Is anyone having the same problems? The forum was active yesterday.  Thanks

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2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

So, the show forum was kicked out of my list of following contents, it is not listed on the "T" forums, and the only topic that comes up in "other T shows" is this one. This is also the only topic that comes up on the search results. Is anyone having the same problems? The forum was active yesterday.  Thanks

I'm under the impression that each topic originally under the Travelers forum wasn't long enough/active enough to warrant Travelers having it's own forum anymore, so now it's just one single topic with all the previous topics combined.  Kind of sad... not sure the reason behind this change.

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2 hours ago, Adira said:

I'm under the impression that each topic originally under the Travelers forum wasn't long enough/active enough to warrant Travelers having it's own forum anymore, so now it's just one single topic with all the previous topics combined.  Kind of sad... not sure the reason behind this change.

Yes, I got an answer for that. I was confused because this one remaining thread is under "Media". 

I also don't understand why the forum - even tough it is not a real forum anymore - was kicked out of my list of following contents, since it is possible to add this one thread to the list. Really messed up. Unless it is a matter of sustainability, it doesn't make sense to make things worse and confusing.

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I just rewatched both 001's arrival and Mac's visit to the WTC.  Mac is there at 8:32, they are very specific about showing the time twice. Then he does EXACTLY what Vincent does. Goes to window, looks out at New York, can't see the planes yet, checks the time and in my opinion he makes the same decision. He leaves the WTC. I assume he's still trying to work the system, he's still on the job because they showed him giving the HELIOS envelope to the lady scientist.

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On 12/19/2018 at 7:48 PM, zibnchy said:

So Maclaren of 2001 died in the WTC?

If there's no Traveler program I guess that means Philip died of a heroin overdose, Carly got beaten to death by Jeff, Jeff Junior went to foster care, and Trevor was a bully who died of blows to the head. I know they weren't actually our Philip, Carly, and Trevor but I feel kind of bad about that.

During David's short time with Marcy he was almost killed by an assassin, kidnapped and drugged by 001, beaten up a few times, secretly injected with forgetting drugs, and finally trapped in a bunker with a nuclear weapon. Had he not died do we think he ever would wise up to the fact that all these things are happening to him because of Marcy and she's not worth it. Marcy is just bland, and boring, and the actress apparently was absent from acting class when they learned about variable facial expressions. Was actually not remotely sorry to have her die. Too bad we couldn't save David and have him really join the team. I liked David.

All told, I like this show a lot and I'd like to see more. Just no more Marcy please. Just get an old blond floor mop to stand in for her.

Most important unanswered question: What happened to Poppy?

3

Not necessarily. We don't know what the ripple effects are from Traveler 001 not being sent and at this point, it leaves open the speculation that in version 2, 9/11 may not have even happened. While none of these events have a seemingly direct connection to any of the individuals, changes to either of these events could have resulted in different lives for any or all of those individuals. Maybe I'm giving the writers a lot of credit for thinking far ahead when it could have just been a happy coincidence, but I think following the mini-subplot of the gambling gave us signs that there could be hope for all of those people in the future. If stopping Helios and the invasion of the Faction, etc. can change the results of a horse race which is seemingly unrelated, then maybe changing the course of Traveler 001 or 9/11 can do the same with Carly, Phillip and Trevor.

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1 hour ago, RHJunkie said:

it leaves open the speculation that in version 2, 9/11 may not have even happened

I don't think this is where the writers are/were going to. If 9/11 didn't happen, it means that the future was able to change this. So why can't the future change other events in the 21st and save humanity? 

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5 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I don't think this is where the writers are/were going to. If 9/11 didn't happen, it means that the future was able to change this. So why can't the future change other events in the 21st and save humanity? 

 

The problem isn’t changing individual events and altering the future, it’s drastically changing the end result into avoiding human civilization being destroyed. 001 was screwing things up but the director also isn’t working from some perfectly crafted plan that is guaranteed to fix what happens. I think the question has to be if things can be changed or if humanity is doomed to destroy itself. The details may change but the conclusion will remain the same... it’s the old terminator situation and they may not even be able to delay things.

 

If the director stopped 9/11 then it must be going further back than it did before and meddling. 

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8 hours ago, MrsR said:

I just rewatched both 001's arrival and Mac's visit to the WTC.  Mac is there at 8:32, they are very specific about showing the time twice. Then he does EXACTLY what Vincent does. Goes to window, looks out at New York, can't see the planes yet, checks the time and in my opinion he makes the same decision. He leaves the WTC. I assume he's still trying to work the system, he's still on the job because they showed him giving the HELIOS envelope to the lady scientist.

So I guess we don't know for sure if 9/11 still happens, then... I thought the whole point of him checking the window twice and checking his watch was that the plane should have been there by then... but maybe they intended it to be ambiguous so they can do whatever they want next season... 9/11 happens as it originally did, but Mac gets out... or something shifted in the timeline as a ripple from travler Mac being there 17 years early. Sure, he studied Mac's life but we know he doesn't know everything. 

Did he still become an FBI agent? Did he solve the exact same cases or solve other ones? It could have been something small that he did differently that then changed multiple things- even if it was just the departure time on a plane or something.  If he didn't get married, that maybe is a vacation/honeymoon he didn't take so more work possibly... him being there could have made a lot of changes to the future, even if they aren't major changes. 

 

I hope we get another season to see where they go with this. I want the same cast back, or at least most of it... but i could deal with some shake ups in who they are... like if something changed enough to make Carly's life go differently so she isn't in an abusive relationship or something like that- like she dies from something else and not being smacked around by Jeff... it would be a fun way to get new tells while keeping some of our cast. 

 

Unrelated- I don't like this new forum set up... people are actively commenting on this show and now all of the seasons and media and everything is all mashed together and it is frustrating... especially for people who haven't had a chance to watch everything yet. 

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17 hours ago, MrsR said:

I just rewatched both 001's arrival and Mac's visit to the WTC.  Mac is there at 8:32, they are very specific about showing the time twice. Then he does EXACTLY what Vincent does. Goes to window, looks out at New York, can't see the planes yet, checks the time and in my opinion he makes the same decision. He leaves the WTC. I assume he's still trying to work the system, he's still on the job because they showed him giving the HELIOS envelope to the lady scientist.

My apologies. I could have sworn the clock said 9:32.

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10 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

The problem isn’t changing individual events and altering the future, it’s drastically changing the end result into avoiding human civilization being destroyed. 001 was screwing things up but the director also isn’t working from some perfectly crafted plan that is guaranteed to fix what happens. I think the question has to be if things can be changed or if humanity is doomed to destroy itself. The details may change but the conclusion will remain the same... it’s the old terminator situation and they may not even be able to delay things.

 

If the director stopped 9/11 then it must be going further back than it did before and meddling. 

Ok but if something so big and that actually changed the course of a lot of international relations (and human relations if you factor in the bigotry that increased because of that), then The Director could simply start changing who gets elected, who gets to create corporations who basically destroy the planet resources, who gets to become the next "innovator" who ends up doing more evil than good, who gets to be more influential...

I can see the conclusion being that things cannot be changed but it does't make sense to me that this one event is what will trigger the new program and that from there things would be different. 

9 hours ago, roctavia said:

So I guess we don't know for sure if 9/11 still happens, then...

I hope they keep the event in the show. Erasing it delves too much into fantasy. 

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I saw him looking out the window to be in anticipation, not that something was missed or didn't happen.  If you knew the exact time a plane was going to crash into the building you're in, and you know you're going to die because of it, but something is compelling you to stay there and therefore die (like changing the future) I think it'd be hard not to keep checking the time or looking out the window.  

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20 hours ago, MrsR said:

I just rewatched both 001's arrival and Mac's visit to the WTC.  Mac is there at 8:32, they are very specific about showing the time twice. Then he does EXACTLY what Vincent does. Goes to window, looks out at New York, can't see the planes yet, checks the time and in my opinion he makes the same decision. He leaves the WTC. I assume he's still trying to work the system, he's still on the job because they showed him giving the HELIOS envelope to the lady scientist.

I thought 9/11 had changed too - but then I rewatched after reading your comment (and double checked the time of the first crash). You're right - they didn't change 9/11. Though they only imply Mac leaves the office, as he is still there when it cuts to Marcy and David - and he's only turned away from the window. So I'm guessing it's been left ambiguous for next season.

I too am not thrilled with the restructuring of this forum (and had always wanted episode threads in the first place). But c'est la vie, I guess.

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18 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Ok but if something so big and that actually changed the course of a lot of international relations (and human relations if you factor in the bigotry that increased because of that), then The Director could simply start changing who gets elected, who gets to create corporations who basically destroy the planet resources, who gets to become the next "innovator" who ends up doing more evil than good, who gets to be more influential...

I can see the conclusion being that things cannot be changed but it does't make sense to me that this one event is what will trigger the new program and that from there things would be different. 

I hope they keep the event in the show. Erasing it delves too much into fantasy. 

 

It definitely poked around politics in the show and so did the faction, and they stopped an innovation with that energy source. It didn’t drastically change the future for the better and the question becomes why. 001 sabotaging things? They haven’t changed the right things? The original timeline is the best case scenario? Its rules also limit how much it can do and it relies on information from the current time’s technology to a lot of things. It’s not like the director is allowed to overwrite world leaders and billionaires whenever it pleases. It can’t go back to, say, when JFK was assassinated and do what it did so far. Honestly, they might get better results without some of those rules.

 

No 9/11 didn’t trigger a new version. Version 1 failing triggered a new version, nukes were set off around the world and the director found out the version was compromised from the start. It failed and, if anything, hastened a worse end. The director will presumably just keep running through versions until it succeeds or can’t anymore.

 

Stopping 9/11 could be interesting or stupid. They could have a new 9/11 event if something like that was always going to happen and not much would change. Coming next, 11/9. Write your dates the right way, America.

 

16 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

I saw him looking out the window to be in anticipation, not that something was missed or didn't happen.  If you knew the exact time a plane was going to crash into the building you're in, and you know you're going to die because of it, but something is compelling you to stay there and therefore die (like changing the future) I think it'd be hard not to keep checking the time or looking out the window.  

 

He may have been appreciating the sky one last time.     

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3 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

It definitely poked around politics in the show and so did the faction, and they stopped an innovation with that energy source. It didn’t drastically change the future for the better and the question becomes why. 001 sabotaging things? They haven’t changed the right things? The original timeline is the best case scenario? Its rules also limit how much it can do and it relies on information from the current time’s technology to a lot of things. It’s not like the director is allowed to overwrite world leaders and billionaires whenever it pleases. It can’t go back to, say, when JFK was assassinated and do what it did so far. Honestly, they might get better results without some of those rules.

Well, I disagree with some of what you say because yes, the Director can do whatever, it seems (besides it is a TV show, somewhat dystopian and - I am guessing now - loosely evoking the movie 2001). It saved a future POTUS. Why not save others? 9/11 did change how the U.S. Runs its foreign policy, and I think it is directly related on how the corporations that help destroying the planet got even more powerful. 

I think the message of the show, if there is any, is that we are doomed and there is no way to save the planet anymore - especially with this year's report on climate change. There is also this freaky possibility of an A.I. running the whole planet, or trying to, or partially doing so. I don't think we will get to this point but the way we rely on A.I. today is a slippery slope of unintended consequences.

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3 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Well, I disagree with some of what you say because yes, the Director can do whatever, it seems (besides it is a TV show, somewhat dystopian and - I am guessing now - loosely evoking the movie 2001). It saved a future POTUS. Why not save others? 9/11 did change how the U.S. Runs its foreign policy, and I think it is directly related on how the corporations that help destroying the planet got even more powerful. 

I think the message of the show, if there is any, is that we are doomed and there is no way to save the planet anymore - especially with this year's report on climate change. There is also this freaky possibility of an A.I. running the whole planet, or trying to, or partially doing so. I don't think we will get to this point but the way we rely on A.I. today is a slippery slope of unintended consequences.

 

It saved a future POTUS that people from the future were trying to kill and it wanted saved. It can do stuff but it’s definitely not all powerful and it fails badly in the end. If it were able to do whatever it wants to get the right result, it would just overwrite the politicians and businessmen it needs to, and send back the information for key technology to be made. It’s limited within the show. The unknown thing is how much stopping 9/11 would ultimately change, and the director needs some precise information to do its job. It might not be able to stop 9/11 if it wanted to because the right people don’t die at a known time and place it can gather information on. 9/11 was a huge cultural shift (hate, fear, paranoia, increased surveillance) that got the US embroiled in 2 unwinnable wars. Huge corporations were far too influential before that, though.

 

In regard to stopping 9/11 being the right thing for the future, 11.22.63 shows a world where saving JFK ended disastrously. It’s possible that stopping 9/11 would somehow be a negative for the future if it could be stopped within the parameters of the show. I’m a little surprised we didn’t see them have more doubts of the director. It really doesn’t seem all that great since it’s not making headway in the future and the big change it managed was creating the faction before starting nuclear war.

 

It probably has a message like that and fate. We don’t rely on AI today? We rely heavily on technology but those aren’t AIs.

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4 hours ago, alexvillage said:

There is also this freaky possibility of an A.I. running the whole planet, or trying to, or partially doing so. I don't think we will get to this point but the way we rely on A.I. today is a slippery slope of unintended consequences.

I'm one who is definitely wary (at best) of the rise of sentience in computers. That being said, the totality of human history itself is a catalog of unintended consequences, without any "help" from AI.

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3 hours ago, amazinglybored said:

We rely heavily on technology but those aren’t AIs.

Alexa, and the other stuff that are popping up, plus a bunch of "secret" developments are A.I's. Not like the all controlling and all powerful, but those are what they are, the divisions of the tech companies developing them call it exactly that: A.I's

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If the idea is that climate change and our failure to deal effectively with it resulted in all the damage, wouldn’t version 2 work more directly on that?  Try to change public opinion, encourage science, etc.  I suppose if they stop 9/11 it would allow the US to not spend trillions on wars in the mid-east, but they’d have to stop Bin Ladin et al too, because they would continue to try to attack the west.  

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I can't help but get caught up in the  "timey wimey wibbly wobbliness" of it all.  If the director and travelors succeed, then the Earth and humanity are in good shape, most likely negating the creation and domination of the director so then the director doesn't exist.  Which means he/it never sent anyone back to fix history, which means we're right back where we started.  :-P  (Yes, I know parallel universes/alternate timelines/etc) 

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