S05.E10: The Dreams Of Dylan McKay

[Primetimer]

Ever wonder what Dylan's subconscious is like? Wonder no more!

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[Primetimer]

Not really, but she is one of the apparitions tormenting Dylan in his dragon-chasing haze. We've collected them all!

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[SoupThrower]

But I care about flag football. I played flag football. Much better than getting smashed in the head and getting injured. Winning in sport is important and David I think has shown interest in sports but it has been sparingly compared to the rest of the guys (well not Dylan).

Oh and Dylan met Clare a few times. 

[SoupThrower]

Why did they think this was a good idea?

A few things I noticed watching the episode. Really Andrea? "Tell Jesse I'm in the hospital." Couldn't you tell him? He's your husband. 

I don't know why but when Claire was in that dream, she liked of looked like a badass video game character who shoots aliens or something. Also Erica is the worst, why did they think she's a good idea? Why is she knelling on the train tracks? Why does he have flowers in her hair (I think).

Lastly WHY DID ANYONE THINK THAT TORI IN LEATHER WAS A GOOD IDEA? WHY? and then the making out with Dylan and the dancing. I'm scarred for life. I think it could have been her idea and to avoid making her complain to her dad or something they had to go with it. BUT WHY? 

Also I don't think Steve was in his dreams either. 

[lefawn]

Oh, god, that stupid touch fingers and slick back your eyebrows thing.  Gah.  I hated that then and I hate it now.  Steve is one of the only likable characters on the show at this point and that just taints him with Brandon awfulness.  

[Nanna]

Before I listen to the podcast, I have one important question: Why is Claire in that dream? Did Dylan ever really meet her? (I guess at the PAD, but did they ever have a conversation.) But I guess since she's now in the main cast, they gotta give her something to do *eyeroll*

[Ions Earring]

1 hour ago, lefawn said:

Oh, god, that stupid touch fingers and slick back your eyebrows thing.  Gah.  I hated that then and I hate it now.  

I dunno. I think the biggest crime is that its gif isn't longer

[ZeroDiscipline]

Oh, god, that stupid touch fingers and slick back your eyebrows thing.  Gah.  I hated that then and I hate it now.  Steve is one of the only likable characters on the show at this point and that just taints him with Brandon awfulness.  

I thought I hated it too, but I just watched it and now I kind of love it? Seems I have softened with old age and I have reversed course. And I think rather than Steve being tainted by the Brandoness of it, actually Brandon goes up a few notches because of the Steveness of it. I used to hate Steve so hard, but now I think he is one of the bright spots of this show, at least the college episodes.

[SoupThrower]

1 hour ago, Nanna said:

Before I listen to the podcast, I have one important question: Why is Claire in that dream? Did Dylan ever really meet her? (I guess at the PAD, but did they ever have a conversation.) But I guess since she's now in the main cast, they gotta give her something to do *eyeroll*

She's recurring in this season. Jesse for some reasons is main. 

[StatMom]

Donna's dancing looks like she's got an itchy butt and is using the wall to scratch it. Blech!

[StatMom]

Were we ever supposed to know what was going on in his dream? Or was it just a bunch of rando stuff, plus an excuse for Tori to show she can play at bad girl? I know, I know, battle for his soul or whatever, but... is rescuing Erica supposed to be the good side winning? Or when he gave Homeless Vet Jack money? Dreams are so strange, you guys!

Oh yeah, shut UP, Erica!

[Stowaway]

4 hours ago, ZeroDiscipline said:

I used to hate Steve so hard, but now I think he is one of the bright spots of this show, at least the college episodes.

This is something I spend a weird amount of time thinking about while I listen to the podcast. I hated him so much when the show originally aired. Now he's the least objectionable thing on it. I think it's because, at the time, he was the character who most resembled a person I actually knew, and it was someone (/people) I didn't like. In retrospect, he's the only character who resembles any kind of person at all, so the fact that he comes across as a human being, and not an actor's jerk-off fantasy of him/herself, makes him the best character on the show.

[AllyB]

I'm another one in the used to hate Steve and now think he's the only genuinely likeable character. He's definitely the most human character and he seems to be actually enjoying his life. I can see why I didn't like him as he is kind of gross in his attitude towards women. But as an adult I can see it as teen boy bravado and that there is a likeable guy underneath it. And probably most likeable of all is that Ziering was old enough to see through Steve's teen boy bravado and is playing it with a real undercurrent of fun.

[bilgistic]

That "dress" Tori's wearing looks like latex rather than leather. The camera angle is awfully close to showing her bits and pieces.

Once again, I have zero recollection of this episode, but I watched this show in its entirety during its first run. I was the "same age" as the gang, so I was "grown" when this aired. I sure as hell didn't have some fantastic social life. I studied and watched The X-Files with my Japanese exchange student roommate who stir-fried ground beef, green peppers and onions every night.

[Petunia13]

I think it was Luke Perry's Emmy reel. 

[Nanna]

I agree on the Steve-thing. As several other people said, I didn't like him much when the show aired, but now I find him to be quite realistic and likeable underneath it all. Ziering does play the part with considerable charm.
In other news, Luke Perry turns 50 today. I'm sure he doesn't look any older now than he does in this season where he and wardrobe really commit to the downward spirale look. Good job I guess - but that would be the only good job in this episode, so...

[Earmuffs Mom]

If you think Donna's look is bad here, wait until the "Strike the Match" video shoot next season where Donna's all tarted up as the last woman on earth and rolls around on the hood of a car, striking matches and being "sexy."  Oy.

[Ions Earring]

Does her video have anything to do with the one David appeared on, on Growing Pains? (about 1:14 in)

Edited October 11, 2016 by Ions Earring

[kimbrchick]

Let whoever wants Dylan's soul so bad have it already! This episode was sooo repetitive.

"Are you there God? It's me Keg House" made my morning drive.

[Petunia13]

I don't think anyone is battling for Dylan's soul. He's just bitter and feeling he fucked over by life and so deciding if he wants to go dark or die vs imagining if life went better. I mean it's kinda his own fault though and not like the most horrible shit ever. He stupidly gave the money away. And his mom was a dumb dumb to give it all to him. He had given no sign he was ready or intellectually capable of having it. But moving on from that. Ok he's broke and dumped by Kelly and salty over Suzanne and co. Many at that age would maybe decide fuck it I'm broke like 95% of all other late teens early 20 yr olds. Get a student loan & go to Bennington or something. I still have potential and am now at a playing field as the rest of my contemporaries. He's such a non conformist and wannabe existential in early canon... like embrace reality  and don't be such a squeef. It just doesn't make sense, given how screw establishment and fuck defined expectations he was prior to this that he wouldn't be more cognizant of the absurdity of life and it's whimsy. 

also that kid kneeling on train tracks I feel like is from a Freddy movie nightmare sequence or 90s dare PSA or even a video from 120 minute era like Kays Choice or Soul Asylum.

Brandon continiuing his life long streak of patronizing comments, child I can't 

Val is a college girl and smokes cigarettes and weed and dates multiple boys. but she still doesn't drink and drive, hook up with her profs spouses, smoke meth, wreck cars, get accused of assault, act like a constipated asshole 24 / 7 

[SoupThrower]

Holy Moly....I just realized that Cory Randall played one of the Mercury 7 in The Right Stuff. 

 

Woahhhhhh

[Petunia13]

Why didn't Mrs Teasly have her awesome long painted nails this episode? 

[CurlyATX]

On ‎10‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 8:18 PM, Petunia13 said:

Val is a college girl and smokes cigarettes and weed and dates multiple boys. but she still doesn't drink and drive, hook up with her profs spouses, smoke meth, wreck cars, get accused of assault, act like a constipated asshole 24 / 7 

word! I do wonder how my age has affected my judgment.  I can't remember if I was team Kelly or team val when I first watched it.  I only remember loving Amanda from Melrose Place.  That girl rocked.

[AndySmith]

Val is the daughter Amanda secretly had as a teenager and gave up for adoption.

[Petunia13]

Maybe she was somehow fathered by Michael which would explain the dark hair and sarcasm. 

[Stephsco]

So I just finished up 6 months worth of AWT:90210 podcasts over the past 4 weeks or so. Needless to say I am regularly telling friends and family about Brandon's need to bray, Donna's helmet hair, no one caring about Oooaanndreah's storylines. You all crack me up so much, and the comments section too.

I'm sure you get requests for future again with this podcasts; have Charmed been suggested? I used to hate watch it and the Shannen Doherty connection seems like a good fit :)

[Stephsco]

Were we ever supposed to know what was going on in his dream? Or was it just a bunch of rando stuff, plus an excuse for Tori to show she can play at bad girl? I know, I know, battle for his soul or whatever, but... is rescuing Erica supposed to be the good side winning? Or when he gave Homeless Vet Jack money? Dreams are so strange, you guys!

Oh yeah, shut UP, Erica!

It was like the Heathers dream sequence minus the wit!

[Carmen MacCodykins]

Aww, just came across this. Poor Luke Perry, octogenarian.
http://www.sammichespsychmeds.com/in-case-you-didnt-feel-old-luke-perry-is-on-the-cover-of-aarp-magazine/

[Stephsco]

Aww, just came across this. Poor Luke Perry, octogenarian.
http://www.sammichespsychmeds.com/in-case-you-didnt-feel-old-luke-perry-is-on-the-cover-of-aarp-magazine/

I'm seeing people posting this everywhere online and a few places in comments I've mentioned this podcast!

[benteen]

Harrison Ford turning 70 a few years ago (he's almost 75 now) made me feel old.

[Petunia13]

This year a lot of icons died, my best friend died at the end of August,  whole world is hitting the shit pan whenever I read current events, hell yeah I feel old. 2016 has been disrespectful af. 

[SoupThrower]

7 hours ago, benteen said:

Harrison Ford turning 70 a few years ago (he's almost 75 now) made me feel old.

Geez

and Dustin Hoffman is nearly 80. 

[benteen]

34 minutes ago, SoupThrower said:

Geez

and Dustin Hoffman is nearly 80. 

Yep.  Jack Nicholson too.

I think it's easier to accept Luke being 50 now in retrospect because he looked so much older on the show.

[SoupThrower]

For me the craziest of all is that Vince Carter is 40/turning 40. Now that's more shocking to me. I know it's weird but I always expect BAG to be older than he actually is and same as Jason. 

[CurlyATX]

On ‎10‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 3:50 PM, Stowaway said:

This is something I spend a weird amount of time thinking about while I listen to the podcast. I hated him so much when the show originally aired. Now he's the least objectionable thing on it. I think it's because, at the time, he was the character who most resembled a person I actually knew, and it was someone (/people) I didn't like. In retrospect, he's the only character who resembles any kind of person at all, so the fact that he comes across as a human being, and not an actor's jerk-off fantasy of him/herself, makes him the best character on the show.

I think that Steve is in a very good situation- he isn't one of the "stars" of the show and therefore isn't required to be super sexy/bad boy or the moral compass of the show.  Ian strikes me as someone who realized that 90210 was his lottery ticket and he should at least be present while filming.  You can see the disgust that BAG has for the last 2 seasons for his role.  He lightens up a little when he and Val get together.

In the trajectory of the show, Steve starts off as a bit of a caricature of the snobby WASP rich kid. He's racist, selfish, and shallow.  He's this foil to make Brandon look better.  However, Steve does evolve.  The jerk who claimed that the black kids in school get special treatment isn't anything like the guy at the end of the show- a stay at home dad to his daughter.  He just seems to retain more of a little boy charm than seem like a bray-tastic windbag or a has-been bad boy. Don't even get me started on David... he pretty much is a mess.

[SoupThrower]

16 minutes ago, CurlyATX said:

I think that Steve is in a very good situation- he isn't one of the "stars" of the show and therefore isn't required to be super sexy/bad boy or the moral compass of the show.  Ian strikes me as someone who realized that 90210 was his lottery ticket and he should at least be present while filming.  You can see the disgust that BAG has for the last 2 seasons for his role.  He lightens up a little when he and Val get together.

I mean you could make an argument that this is show is basically the growth of Steve and David in many ways. Every other character from the get go don't experience that much growth.

Also yeah you can see the disgust and boredom with this role and is on there just to get paid. I think Jason, Tiff and Luke had the same issues. Just phone it in and get paid. 

[MCMLXXVII]

Yep, season 1 Steve was pretty much a warmer, friendlier 80s teen movie "villain". I don't think he was bad guy at heart, but a follower easily swayed by the John Sears's of the world, 'cause daddy/ not enough parental attention issues.

[Onfire444]

I was discussing Steve with friends today. American audiences more receptive to types like Steve these days, wide-cracking, sexist antiheros, with some troubles in their past, and audiences more bored with Brandon types, shiny super heros. Could this same warming to 80s villains also be the same warming that allows Trump to be a presidential nominee? Time for a thinkpiece comparing Steve Sanders to Donald Trump!

[CurlyATX]

16 hours ago, Onfire444 said:

I was discussing Steve with friends today. American audiences more receptive to types like Steve these days, wide-cracking, sexist antiheros, with some troubles in their past, and audiences more bored with Brandon types, shiny super heros. Could this same warming to 80s villains also be the same warming that allows Trump to be a presidential nominee? Time for a thinkpiece comparing Steve Sanders to Donald Trump!

Politics aside, I do think Steve softened by the end of the show, having more humility and seeing (and changing) this short-comings.  I think of how Steve openly told Kelly that he had continued to spread rumors about her even after the Spring Fling dance.  Or how he stays faithful to his other girlfriends post-Celeste.  Steve seemed to see more duality as he aged.   Brandon would totally want things to be "great again".

Of course the main downfall of the show was that the writers just didn't give any fucks, so things were retconned all the time.  For example, Steve and Kelly dating pre-show was reduced to a one-time hookup (on the beach vs upstairs while Entertainment Tonight was filming).  Or how Val's dad's suicide was molestation related, then a homicide. 

[SoupThrower]

They retconned Brandon's first day. That's was the worst retcon. 

[CurlyATX]

22 hours ago, SoupThrower said:

They retconned Brandon's first day. That's was the worst retcon. 

I forgot about that one... didn't they make it that Donna was so outgoing and met Brandon.  In reality, wasn't Kelly making fun of him for eating alone? I'll have to relisten to the podcast since my commute is suffering some serious withdrawals.

[TheOtherLibrarian]

Cindy Loper!! HAAAAA!!! Maybe my favorite reference of any of yours, ever. Thank you for that.

[AllyB]

21 hours ago, CurlyATX said:

I forgot about that one... didn't they make it that Donna was so outgoing and met Brandon.  In reality, wasn't Kelly making fun of him for eating alone? I'll have to relisten to the podcast since my commute is suffering some serious withdrawals.

When did they retcon that? The twins were all alone at school until Kelly was so desperate not to have an overweight girl be her lab partner she pretended Brenda was already her partner. (I have to admit when I watched it as a preteen, I just thought Brenda had gotten lucky. Watching it again as an adult it was such a despicable scene.) Brandon was all alone to the point where people left the table when he tried to sit with them. Kelly pointed out the pariah to Brenda while telling her how lucky she was to have met her and Brenda pretended not to know him, despite having promised each other they'd eat together.

Then Brandon "accidentally" misled people about his Wild Thing status and he became Mr Popular.

[AndySmith]

They retconned it in the episode where Brandon left the show (or the one right before it) during season 9.

Originally: Brenda and Kelly meet in the science lab. Later, Brenda and Kelly see Brandon while having lunch. Kelly snarks on Brandon eating alone, Brenda pretends she has no idea who she is.

Retcon: Donna introduced herself to Brandon, seeing how sad and lonely he was on his first day, because she is the most special bestest snowflake. Ever.

[Dr.OO7]

Anyone else find the amount of women in the "Everyone You've Slept With" sequence downright disturbing considering that Dylan's only 19 or 20?

And of all the times Brenda's absence infuriated me, this was the peak--we get DONNA even though he's never even thought about sleeping with her, but not the first girl he ever loved and whose virginity he took?

[GHScorpiosRule]

Do NOT get me started on the retcon trail of HELL. Like that twat Kelly was Dylan's soulmate, when NO. It was BRENDA. I've just finished watching the first season (and will post my thoughts there), but the EMOTION, LOVE, the CONNECTION between Dylan and Brenda, wipes the FLOOR from here and around the earth in comparison to whatever that was he had with Kelly.

I fucking resented that the show tried to purify Kelly because Shannen was on her way out. But WHO still had the chemistry, friendship and connection?

They probably didn't want to pay Shannen, so that's why no Brenda. I read somewhere, that if old clips of actors were used, said actors had to be paid. Or something.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. AT ALL.

[Jax7917]

33 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do NOT get me started on the retcon trail of HELL. Like that twat Kelly was Dylan's soulmate, when NO. It was BRENDA. I've just finished watching the first season (and will post my thoughts there), but the EMOTION, LOVE, the CONNECTION between Dylan and Brenda, wipes the FLOOR from here and around the earth in comparison to whatever that was he had with Kelly.

I fucking resented that the show tried to purify Kelly because Shannen was on her way out. But WHO still had the chemistry, friendship and connection?

They probably didn't want to pay Shannen, so that's why no Brenda. I read somewhere, that if old clips of actors were used, said actors had to be paid. Or something.

Not that I'm bitter or anything. AT ALL.

Kelly being Dylan's "soulmate" was ridiculous. I can't remember a scene they shared while they were together that they weren't fighting. I agree that it was really annoying that just because Brenda left the show, the writers tried to minimize her and Dylan's relationship. Even after D & K's summer of deception, after Brenda came back from Paris, Dylan still wanted her. He even admitted that he basically chose Kelly later on because she was the one who showed up to his dads coming out of jail party. Up until then, he was still choosing Brenda.

And after K & D broke up the first 100 times, Dylan never seemed to care one way or the other. He only started somewhat "caring" once Brenda left the show.

[Dr.OO7]

On 3/25/2019 at 9:55 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

I can't remember a scene they shared while they were together that they weren't fighting.

Those two made each other miserable.

[RedDelicious]

….I’m watching this episode on Pluto right now and all I can think of or say is….Uncle Rico??