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S06.E04: Strange Case


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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

They also need to figure out who they want Rumple to be. Didn't he absorb all of the Dark One powers last season? Isn't he now supposed to be the Ultimate Dark One, Darker than the Darkest Dark One That Ever Darked? And yet, he is still easily subdued by someone who doesn't even have any powers. OK, maybe Jekyll's serum somehow prevents him from killing Hyde, although even that seems like a stretch. But does it also prevent him from - oh, I don't know, putting some other kind of hex on Hyde? Turning him into a frog, maybe? Or simply knocking him out? Because if Jekyll's formula makes Hyde omnipotent and impervious to the Darkest Dark One That Ever Darked, that means Jekyll himself is even more powerful than the Dark One, to be able to come up with such a formula. 

Despite directly referencing Emma being the DO last night, Im pretty sure the show wants us to forget 5A ever happened.

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Total speculation but when Jasmine was talking to the Oracle I got this odd feeling that the Oracle was actually Jafar in disguise. I think it was the staff. Yes, I know she and Jafar have been seen together but that was some sort of flashback. Jafar could have absorbed her oracle powers the way Rumple did with the Seer (that gal who had eyeballs on her palms) and then taken her place. Or not absorbed her powers but is pretending to be her anyway because he has plans for Aladdin.

So, are we ever going to find out just why Hyde had all those people loaded on the blimp and shunted over to Storybrooke?

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Maybe the actor who played Hyde was more charismatic, and Jekyll did turn out to be a jerk, but I don't see how Jekyll is suddenly the biggest evil there was.  Mary's death was an accident or at the very least not premeditated.  I don't see how this meant Jekyll would premediate the murder of a pregnant woman, especially if the supposed more brazen part of him had been siphoned off into Hyde.  And speaking of Hyde, he contributed to the death of Charlotte by bringing her over and knew he was providing info which would have killed Edmund and Cinderella.  In the flashback, Hyde also wasn't evil... he was just more confident and cavalier.  So I don't see how this episode revealed anything intriguing about human nature.

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how exactly did Hook get by Rumple and Hyde and on his ship to save Belle?

Magic! (TM) 

It must be nice to be writers on a show where you can write yourself into a corner and "then a miracle happened".

Fanwank1: Hook was already on the ship. He had come over to bring Belle a donut or a house warming plant or to tell her the trick on how to unplug the toilet, when suddenly, he heard her call for  help. He then stealthily made his way to where she was and saved her.

Fanwank2: Hyde was preventing Rumple from directly helping Belle, but that doesn't mean he couldn't get somebody else to help her indirectly. He poofed Hook out of Emma's house (good thing he wasn't in the middle of taking a shower or other activities) and onto the deck hoping Hook could save the day. Why didn't he poof Charming? Hook is the guy you think of when he has been your arch-enemy for 300 years and your wife is on his boat.

However Hook got there, it wasn't from somewhere else on foot after he received Belle's call. There just wasn't time.

As to why Hyde didn't order Rumple not to stop Killian...Hyde isn't invested in the outcome of the fight. If Jekyll kills Belle, Rumple had to watch. If Jekyll gets killed, Hyde is happy to see the last of him. Regardless of which survived (Belle or Jekyll), I bet the next command that Hyde was about to give was to kill the survivor. Jekyll ends up dead and Hyde either gets to force Rumple watch Belle die or to force him to kill her himself.

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37 minutes ago, Dianthus said:

One thing that caught my attention was Regina's line, re: Belle always ending up in a prison. 

Interestingly enough, Regina herself has imprisoned Belle the longest--both in the EF, and for 28 years in Storybrooke. Self-awareness = zero.

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I just felt like I had to slog through this entire episode.

Maybe the Jasmine/Aladin stuff will help (Love Karen! Still miss Galavant).  

This is the first time in a long while that I was legit bored.  There wasn't even anything that drove me crazy.  Bored is so much worse than irate.  And I liked Hyde.

It is just so underwhelming.

Man I wish Tad Cooper were here.

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1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

Interestingly enough, Regina herself has imprisoned Belle the longest--both in the EF, and for 28 years in Storybrooke. Self-awareness = zero.

That's our Regina, blaming her victims for being victimized. So here she criticizes Belle for having been her prisoner (not that she's entirely wrong about Belle imprisoning herself by going back to Rumple all the time), just as she criticized Snow for losing the palace she kicked her out of and stole from her after murdering her father.

We do need some Tad Cooper here. Oh wait, could he be Lily's father? And every time Jasmine spoke, I expected her to say something Isabella-like, like making a snarky remark about princesses. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some Galavant to rewatch ...

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On 10/16/2016 at 9:43 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Rumple finally cuts his hair, because he wants a fresh start (or Robert Carlyle was like "Enough is enough, guys.  I have had this damn evil mullet for five years!  No more!"),

It was for Carlyle's role in the sequel to Trainspotting.

On 10/16/2016 at 9:04 PM, Tiger said:

And I dont care if its the worth cgi ever, I want at least one apperance each by Abu and Zazu.

Zazu is the hornbill from The Lion King. Do you mean Rajah the tiger? I'd really like to see him.

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Holy crap, EdR loses baby weight immediately.   Good for her. 

It had no logic in terms of lessons but I enjoyed Snow wanting to teach,  I think it tied in nicely with the'we are both' idea.   I just wish it had been done better. 

This is the first episode where I actually hated Rumple.  The end scene with Belle was gross and I am a huge Rumbeller.   He was, for the first time, actually manipulative and openly abusive suggesting that Belle would come back to him because of necessity.  Ick.

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11 hours ago, Camera One said:

Maybe the actor who played Hyde was more charismatic, and Jekyll did turn out to be a jerk, but I don't see how Jekyll is suddenly the biggest evil there was.  Mary's death was an accident or at the very least not premeditated.  I don't see how this meant Jekyll would premediate the murder of a pregnant woman, especially if the supposed more brazen part of him had been siphoned off into Hyde.  

The episode wasn't saying Jekyll was the biggest evil, just that the darkness you split from yourself can still be reborn within you.  That's why the brazen part of him may have been siphoned off into Hyde, but then some brazenness grew within him all the same and led him to attempt to kill Belle.  Also, while Mary's death was not premeditated and was more or less accidental (Jekyll was so angry he clearly was not even paying attention to the fact that she was in front of a window when he pushed her), I think the worst part about it is that in just seconds afterward Jekyll took the potion to switch to Hyde, to "frame" Hyde for the crime.  I actually really liked this, as I had said long before this episode aired that even in classic literature Hyde was created as a scapegoat Jekyll could use to live out his inner sinfulness without taking responsibility for it, just like he was used for here.

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So I don't see how this episode revealed anything intriguing about human nature.

It didn't, since it was the same reveal from 6x02...splitting the dark part of yourself from you does jack shit in the end.  Regina did it, and she ended up killing someone out of impulse anyway.  Jekyll did it, and he ended up trying to kill someone because he still ducks responsibility for what happened to the woman he felt entitled to having.  These two episodes gave the same message, which is....that this split plot is really dumb and pointless.

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He was, for the first time, actually manipulative and openly abusive

"Actually manipulative", no, he's been that toward Belle lots of times before.  "Openly abusive", yes, this was indeed a first for him.  He came pretty close before when he revealed to Belle that he was the Dark One again in the Underworld, but that was more brutal honesty than anything.

Edited by Mathius
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I really liked this one. I do think they somewhat rushed the Jekyll & Hyde ending but it seems like we'll be gaining Jafar as an ongoing threat if Jasmine's last scene with that seer is anything to go by.

Jasmine's introduction was actually done really well. I liked her scenes with Snow and I can't wait to see Aladdin again.

Jekyll being evil made sense. Rumple ruining his life and Belle getting caught up in it though was predictable as hell.

Rumple's hair cut certainly looks different. Both Regina and Evil Queen's commentary on it was amusing.

Regina has to die for the Evil Queen to go? Of course she does, but will she though? Not if Emma gets in the way no doubt.

Good scenes with Emma/David and Hook/Belle this week, 7/10

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12 hours ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Zazu is the hornbill from The Lion King. Do you mean Rajah the tiger? I'd really like to see him.

Haha, yes, thank you.

I'd love to see Zazu and whole LK gang show up, especially if Scar mauls Rumple and then leaves the carcass for the hyennas.

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It really doesn't come across like they had this particular backstory and outcome planned for the Jekyll/Hyde story when they wrote last season's finale, or maybe even this season's premiere. There was just that vague sense of a reason to hate Rumple, which is a kind of "join the club" thing in this universe. Who doesn't have a grudge of some sort against him?

So, Rumple went through the portal and confronted Hyde because he knew Hyde had the Belle box -- but did we see how he knew it was Hyde? They didn't seem to have had that much interaction. It seems more likely that Rumple wouldn't even have remembered Hyde, that he would have just been one of the many people Rumple's screwed over the centuries. I guess I can see Rumple handing over the "keys to Storybrooke" if he was desperate enough to get Belle back and learn how to wake her, but he also knew that Hyde wanted revenge on him, which should have given him pause or made him want to take precautions with Belle sooner. As for Hyde, I guess the reason he wanted the keys to Storybrooke would have been to be able to reach Jekyll and get his revenge now that they were separate people, but why would he have cared about bringing a bunch of Untold Stories people with him? That seems like it actually got in the way of his plan because it brought him to the attention of the Storybrooke gang. If he'd just hung around in town on his own without having to go confront Emma and the gang, he'd have had the chance to deal with Jekyll and Rumple without anyone being the wiser. It's yet another case of a villain sabotaging his own plan by making it overly complicated and broadcasting news of it. If there was some grander plan of what he wanted to accomplish, it seems weird to start with the setup, never reveal the reasons, and then kill him before it went anywhere. Mostly, it seems like the writers handwaving an excuse to bring these people to town, but that doesn't at all fit Hyde's motive that they showed us.

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16 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

I super believe in you, Tad Cooper! Maybe he's Lily's dad?

Maybe if we all SUPER BELIEVE, Tad Cooper will come and fly us away to a better version of this show! 

I think its time for a Galavant re-watch. 

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So another case of Rumple hopping between worlds without the need for a huge curse.  Even Cinderella had that key for world hopping. sigh

Robert Carlyle wishes they had let him cut his hair before Barney Thompson so he wouldn't have had to have that awkward slick-backed 'do.

So disappointed that David actually had a step forward on his own story line with his dad's murder last time and he is jumped 5 steps back when the minuscule dialog he gets with Emma is a line about how he feels about Hook as if she wasn't aware of all the story line they have shared. SIGH

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16 hours ago, darkestboy said:

Regina has to die for the Evil Queen to go? Of course she does, but will she though? Not if Emma gets in the way no doubt.

This storyline reminds me of the ablations in Return to Labyrinth. If it works like that, then if Regina regrows the part of herself that was used to make the Evil Queen the link between them will be severed and they'll be able to die separately.

3 hours ago, Arnella said:

So another case of Rumple hopping between worlds without the need for a huge curse.  Even Cinderella had that key for world hopping. sigh

Again, Rumple said explicitly in "The Doctor" that only transporting to the Land Without Magic is that difficult. Other worlds that do have magic like Fictional Victorian England (even if they don't believe in it) are much easier. So while there may be many plot holes in Once Upon a Time, this is not one.

8 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I'd love to see that.

Seconded. Though I'd prefer Simba to do the honors.

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46 minutes ago, Noneofyourbusiness said:

Again, Rumple said explicitly in "The Doctor" that only transporting to the Land Without Magic is that difficult. Other worlds that do have magic like Fictional Victorian England (even if they don't believe in it) are much easier. So while there may be many plot holes in Once Upon a Time, this is not one.

Agreed. The plot hole since Season 2 has been that Bae was in Neverland at this time, a realm Rumple could have presumably traveled to, and even that is kind of explained by the fact that Pan was in charge there. Traveling between all the realms except the Land Without Magic has never been an issue for Rumple, he even had Jefferson and his hat in his employ for some time. In Season 2, he had no problem going to the Land Without Color or getting Regina to send Cora to Wonderland.

I've been thinking it would be kind of a fun fanfic idea to have Rumple send Hook and Emma to the Land of Untold Stories instead of putting them in his vault after they fixed the timeline in the Season 3 finale since Rumple seems to like sending people there, although I don't know if he had the key at that point in the timeline. This episode tells us he at least had it when he started having feelings for Belle so maybe he did. The Belle in captivity timeline is kind of wonky since Snow Drifts must take place after Roland was born but Belle was already with Rumple when Marian was pregnant and then she was held captive by Regina for an undefined period of time (out of one prison and into another says her longest jailer). The problem is I have no idea what Hook and Emma would have done there since apparently all the LoUS does is pause stories. Still, I'm kind of obsessed with time travel stories that have the time travelers returning to the present the "long way 'round."

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Nope, the problem was never getting to the Land without Magic, it was that he couldn't get back. Emma & Pinocchio went in a wardrobe, Hook used a bean, Ingrid walked through a freaking door, so no trouble getting there. Rumpel wanted Bae and his magic, so he created this elaborate thing with Snowing and their baby and then set up the potion with Maleficent, so he'd have magic. But of course, even that was not necessary since you can apparently now open a portal in the middle of Manhattan if enough people "believe". Rumpel is an idiot who ruined countless lives for no reason.

So now I want to know why Hyde, who was shown to not be a bad guy in the flashbacks, suddenly became an evil villain. What was the point of bringing those people to Storybrooke? He said he'd wanted their stories to play out, but didn't seem to even care about them. Charlotte just died. What was the point of that? Hyde was not from the Enchanted Forest, so why would he care about Clorinda/Cinderella? Or the Count of Monte Cristo? Or anyone really except for Rumpel? And if he wanted to hurt Rumpel, why not just burn the Belle in the Box rather than tell him how to get her out and leave to go to Storybrooke where he was immediately imprisoned and showed no interest in the stories that were playing out? Hyde makes no sense.

Edited by KAOS Agent
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I did a quick rewatch and I realize I have a problem with Emma asking David if he's sure he's okay with Hook moving in with her.

Okay Emma, what if David said he didn't want your boyfriend to move in with you? What then? You cancel the whole thing? I get that Emma wants her parents' approval, but that dialogue was beyond stupid. Emma can have a conversation with David about her relationship with Hook without it devolving into a "are you okay with it?"

Edited by YaddaYadda
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6 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Agreed. The plot hole since Season 2 has been that Bae was in Neverland at this time, a realm Rumple could have presumably traveled to, and even that is kind of explained by the fact that Pan was in charge there.

Rumple didn't know Bae was in Neverland and had no reason to think he was, though, since he'd last seen him falling through a portal to the Land Without Magic. I have had a harder time believing that he never investigated the Evil Queen's claim that Belle was dead, or at least killed Sir Maurice for it.

4 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

Nope, the problem was never getting to the Land without Magic, it was that he couldn't get back. Emma & Pinocchio went in a wardrobe, Hook used a bean, Ingrid walked through a freaking door, so no trouble getting there. Rumpel wanted Bae and his magic, so he created this elaborate thing with Snowing and their baby and then set up the potion with Maleficent, so he'd have magic. But of course, even that was not necessary since you can apparently now open a portal in the middle of Manhattan if enough people "believe". Rumpel is an idiot who ruined countless lives for no reason..

The problem was that he didn't know of any surviving magic beans, which we saw him looking for in some flashbacks. We're not sure why he couldn't have used the wardrobe, but Jane Espenson said there was some reason, the door Ingrid used was drawn by the Sorcerer's Apprentice, etc. Jefferson's hat and the White Rabbit couldn't have gotten him there. As we saw in "An Untold Story", Rumple wasn't enough of a believer in belief to think a crowd of people could conjure magic like that. What makes him look dumb is not knowing that there were surviving giants at the top of giant beanstalks all this time.

52 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I did a quick rewatch and I realize I have a problem with Emma asking David if he's sure he's okay with Hook moving in with her.

Okay Emma, what if David said he didn't want your boyfriend to move in with you? What then? You cancel the whole thing? I get that Emma wants her parents' approval, but that dialogue was beyond stupid. Emma can have a conversation with David about her relationship with Hook without it devolving into a "are you okay with it?"

Presumably she would have told him why they should be okay with it and if not then too bad. People ask these sort of questions to know the other person's emotional state and reassure them if necessary, not because they'll only do something with approval.

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It doesn't make sense for Emma to be asking David that question. It's like the whole of Season 5 didn't exist. After everything Hook and Emma did to save each other, and after Charms was so supportive of Emma going to the Underworld to bring Hook back, why would she ask him now if he was okay with Hook, and why would David pull the "pirate" card? It's inorganic and awkward. It's sexist.

I think a better topic of conversation would be if David teased Emma why she and Hook weren't getting married. Or made a "dad" joke about whether he should be expecting more grandkids now that Hook is moving in with Emma. That would've been hilarious.

Edited by Rumsy4
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1 hour ago, Rumsy4 said:

It doesn't make sense for Emma to be asking David that question. It's like the whole of Season 5 didn't exist. After everything Hook and Emma did to save each other, and after Charms was so supportive of Emma going to the Underworld to bring Hook back, why would she ask him now if he was okay with Hook, and why would David pull the "pirate" card? It's inorganic and awkward. It's sexist.

I think a better topic of conversation would be if David teased Emma why she and Hook weren't getting married. Or made a "dad" joke about whether he should be expecting more grandkids now that Hook is moving in with Emma. That would've been hilarious.

And would have tied in great with the previous episode. Missed chances is this shows byline.

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3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

It doesn't make sense for Emma to be asking David that question. It's like the whole of Season 5 didn't exist. After everything Hook and Emma did to save each other, and after Charms was so supportive of Emma going to the Underworld to bring Hook back, why would she ask him now if he was okay with Hook, and why would David pull the "pirate" card? It's inorganic and awkward. It's sexist.

And David was the only person other than Emma to actually act like he was glad Hook was alive again, and not even just for Emma's sake. He grabbed him in a big hug when he saw him. Why would Emma be worried now what David thought about him?

The marriage question would have made a lot more sense -- it's great that you're moving in together, but when's the wedding?

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Rumple knew the whole story, but he had no idea Jekyll was as much a threat as Hyde and needed to be kept off the Pirate Ship?  Alrighty then... was it The Dark One or The Dim One again?  

Edited by Camera One
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I think Rumple didn't believe Hyde when he kept saying Jekyll had killed Mary. Even after he said he loved Mary, Rumple may have thought Hyde killed Mary because she didn't love him back. Which was what Jekyll did and what Rumple himself did to Milah. 

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What was the point of Hyde bringing the Land of We-Ran-Out-Of-Disney-Characters-So-We're-Burning-Off-Classic-Literary-Characters-One-Episode-At-A-Time to Storybrooke? This flashback didn't do anything but cause more confusion. If Hyde wasn't totally a bad guy all along, why the sudden shift in villainy? When did he go bad? Was all of his anger because of Mary's death? This is why the show will never reach its full potential because, in the writers' pursuit of pulling off the shocking twist, they have to throw away continuity and logic. (In fact, the term "twist" was used three times in this episode. "Quite a twist, don't you think?" "You see, there's one final twist." "Well, it appears there was one final twist." Are we sure Dr. Jekyll wasn't actually Oliver Twist?)

The flashback doesn't explain why or how Hyde became a warden or why he wanted the keys to Storybrooke. Why did he want to bring those people over with him? Why is there nothing more dangerous than an Untold Story? What the hell is the difference between an Untold Story and everyone else's normal lives in Storybrooke? Isn't every single person on the show an Untold Story because we don't know what the future holds? Jekyll/Hyde was just a pawn in the writers' game of wanting to have two Reginas on screen.

Also, these writers have no sense of how nonsensical their main Regina plot is:

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"I didn't unleash anything. You did. That man out there? He's not some monster from the deep. It's you. Except stronger and smarter."

Part of me wonders if the writers purposely had Regina standing a few feet away from Rumple when he said that, or if the writers have no clue how ironic this is. Why is Rumple allowed to say that Hyde and Jekyll are one in the same, but no one is allowed to tell Regina the same thing? Regina and the Evil Queen are the same person! Why are we still treating them like two different people? And now there's actual dialogue here that proves that the characters are able to recognize that Jekyll and Hyde are the same person, so it's not like it's an abstract concept for them to comprehend. You could replace the word 'man' with 'woman' and that line I quoted could be used on Regina. 

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8 hours ago, Camera One said:

Can't he just look at a "tape" recording of the event, like Zelena is easily able to do?  I don't know if I can equate what Rumple did to Milah with what happened with Jekyll and Mary.

Mary's death was accidental. Milah's was anything but. Twice. I think I'd compare what happened to Milah to what Jekyll was planning on doing to Belle. 

2 hours ago, Curio said:

Part of me wonders if the writers purposely had Regina standing a few feet away from Rumple when he said that, or if the writers have no clue how ironic this is. Why is Rumple allowed to say that Hyde and Jekyll are one in the same, but no one is allowed to tell Regina the same thing? Regina and the Evil Queen are the same person! Why are we still treating them like two different people? And now there's actual dialogue here that proves that the characters are able to recognize that Jekyll and Hyde are the same person, so it's not like it's an abstract concept for them to comprehend. You could replace the word 'man' with 'woman' and that line I quoted could be used on Regina. 

That's the thing though, in every single episode, someone has told Regina that she and the EQ are one. It's the Regina enablers that are the problem, because when someone tells Regina what's up, one of those idiots (usually Snow and Henry and sometimes Emma) step up, no Regina, you're awesome, don't listen to the people that tell you the truth about yourself, they're just haters. Sometimes, people need to hear they're assholes. 

Where is Marco when you need him? What he said to her in season 4 still holds completely true. 

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53 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

It's the Regina enablers that are the problem, because when someone tells Regina what's up, one of those idiots (usually Snow and Henry and sometimes Emma) step up, no Regina, you're awesome, don't listen to the people that tell you the truth about yourself, they're just haters. Sometimes, people need to hear they're assholes.

 

Exactly. It doesn't matter if the Evil Queen taunts Regina or Rumple or even Hook try to knock sense into her, it has to come from Snow, Emma, or Henry because those are the only people Regina seems to actually take seriously. Especially since Snow and Emma were the ones who egged Regina on to take the serum in the first place, we better have a scene where Snow and Emma realize that they were wrong for encouraging Regina in the first place and that they've been purposely trying to ignore the bad parts of Regina instead of accepting that the Evil Queen's actions were 100% Regina. But I doubt that's going to happen.

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The problem was that he didn't know of any surviving magic beans, which we saw him looking for in some flashbacks. What makes him look dumb is not knowing that there were surviving giants at the top of giant beanstalks all this time.

See, this is what has always bugged me.  While I do think crossing worlds in general has been cheapened (wasn't it once said there were walls between them without the Dark Curse?), I can accept that Rumple reaching the Land Without Magic specifically was difficult...except that we saw in 2x13 that there was an entire harvest of magic beans being grown by giants!  And we're expected to believe that King George knew about this, yet the all-powerful Dark One did not?  THAT is the plot hole surrounding Rumple's quest for Bae that has always driven me crazy ever since watching it.

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As we saw in "An Untold Story", Rumple wasn't enough of a believer in belief to think a crowd of people could conjure magic like that. 

And again, even if he had done that, he'd still lose his power upon entering the Land Without Magic, and he couldn't have that now, could he?

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We're not sure why he couldn't have used the wardrobe

Same deal, he could have but he would have lost his power.  He not only had something built into the curse that would allow his power to come back to him, but thanks to a deal with Regina he ensured that he'd have the mundane power of Mr. Gold (being rich and gangster-like) in the meantime.

Edited by Mathius
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4 minutes ago, Mathius said:

See, this is what has always bugged me.  While I do think crossing worlds in general has been cheapened (wasn't it once said there were walls between them without the Dark Curse?), I can accept that Rumple reaching the Land Without Magic specifically was difficult...except that we saw in 2x13 that there was an entire harvest of magic beans being grown by giants!  And we're expected to believe that King George knew about this, yet the all-powerful Dark One did not?  THAT is the plot hole surrounding Rumple's quest for Bae that has always driven me crazy.

I think they could fix this if they would just have Rumple drop a line that the Seer told him he could not alter the path of the vision or if you wanted some other way this came to light at a later date. Meaning that if he tried to find Bae before the destined time then something so awful would happen.  This would go a long way to explaining why Rumple didn't use any of the ample methods to get to Bae before time and stop the absolute ridiculousness that the Dark One wouldn't know of these methods.  He did know of them but he couldn't use them.

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8 minutes ago, Mathius said:

While I do think crossing worlds in general has been cheapened (wasn't it once said there were walls between them without the Dark Curse?), I can accept that Rumple reaching the Land Without Magic specifically was difficult...except that we saw in 2x13 that there was an entire harvest of magic beans being grown by giants!  And we're expected to believe that King George knew about this, yet the all-powerful Dark One did not?  THAT is the plot hole surrounding Rumple's quest for Bae that has always driven me crazy ever since watching it.

It's always sounded like ordinary magic beans wouldn't work -- Hook had to wait for the new curse for the barriers to go down so that he could use a magic bean to get to Emma. Apparently, the bean Bae used was a special bean that could punch through the barriers, even while there was no magic in the Land Without Magic, and that was the one that was the last of its kind. Then again, Rumple was desperate to get the bean Hook and Milah had, like he thought that would help, so, yeah, we're back to the entire harvest that Rumple didn't know about. The giants did say something about it taking 100 years, so maybe beans were rare back in the era when Rumple confronted Hook and Milah and would have been common if James hadn't screwed over the giants, but then wouldn't Rumple have known about the giants if George and James did and intervene to get what he wanted?

Basically, we have nesting sets of overlapping plot holes and continuity issues. My personal headcanon handwave is that there was a part of Rumple that was afraid of facing his son again, so he was doing all the crazy manipulation leading to the curse instead of taking one of the more direct routes as a kind of procrastination. He could tell himself that he was making progress toward his goal while still putting off the moment when he would have to face his son. It's like when you decide you have to clean and organize your desk and sort through your e-mail in-box before you can start work on a project. It allows you to feel like you're working even while you're avoiding dealing with that project.

After this episode, I'm left wondering how/why Hyde brought the Untold Stories people over. Didn't he get to Storybrooke himself at the end of the season 5 finale? And then the airship didn't come through until the premiere -- or were those events meant to be overlapping? Did Hyde use some kind of portal, or did the airship have portal abilities? Was everyone from the Untold Stories world on the ship, or just selected people? How were they chosen? Why? What did the airship full of Untold Stories have to do with Hyde's desire to get revenge on Rumple and Jekyll? In the finale, Hyde talked about taking over Storybrooke. What did that have to do with his goal? And now that he's been killed off rather quickly and easily, I guess none of those things really matter and we'll never know.

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Villains' motivations have been murky for some time now.  Nimue, Hades, Hyde, the Evil Queen...

It actually makes me miss Zelena's time travel nonsense, at least the motivation for that was clearly defined!

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Quote

After this episode, I'm left wondering how/why Hyde brought the Untold Stories people over. Didn't he get to Storybrooke himself at the end of the season 5 finale? And then the airship didn't come through until the premiere -- or were those events meant to be overlapping? Did Hyde use some kind of portal, or did the airship have portal abilities? Was everyone from the Untold Stories world on the ship, or just selected people? How were they chosen? Why? What did the airship full of Untold Stories have to do with Hyde's desire to get revenge on Rumple and Jekyll? In the finale, Hyde talked about taking over Storybrooke. What did that have to do with his goal? And now that he's been killed off rather quickly and easily, I guess none of those things really matter and we'll never know.

 

The timeline goes like this: Hyde somehow came over to Storybrooke by himself at the end of Season 5, revealed himself to Regina and Henry, and warned them that he was bringing some guests. A few minutes later (based on Emma and Hook barely getting to second base), the dirigible flies into the scene and crashes. So somehow, after Hyde gave Rumple the information about how to wake Belle (how did he know about that anyway?), he rounded up a bunch of people in the Land of Untold Stories, put them on the airship, but didn't fly the airship himself because he appeared in Storybrooke before the airship ever landed. Did Rumple open a portal for him? How was Hyde able to get so many people on the ship? Surely he must have had henchmen helping him. Who was driving the ship? Is the dirigible magical enough so that it can cruise control across realms without any pilot? Is that why it crashed? Did anyone on the ship try to hijack the dirigible? Why did Hyde even care about ruling Storybrooke? He never had any clear motivation. Maybe Hyde was meant to be not fully human, so he was just pretending to be like other villains because he doesn't know how real emotions work and has to copy what other people do to survive. "I'm angry! People call me a villain! Well, if I'm a villain, what do villains do? Hm, this book seems to say villains like taking over a town called Storybrooke. Then I guess that's what I'll do! Hm, this book also says villains need to say vague threats to seem more menacing. Vague I shall be! Hm, it also says to distract heroes with decoys. There are plenty of people in this land I can put on this dirigible to distract those heroes I barely know! Yes, this is how one villains."

There are so many unanswered questions here that the writers don't care about because they just wanted an excuse to play with shiny new toys.

Edited by Curio
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If Hyde wasn't totally a bad guy all along, why the sudden shift in villainy? When did he go bad?

I think the Writers forgot they needed to explain that.  The take-home message was Jekyll was the real villain.  And now they're both dead, so destroy all neural connections you've created about Jekyll and Hyde and focus on Aladdin and Jasmine instead.

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I think the Writers forgot they needed to explain that.  The take-home message was Jekyll was the real villain.  And now they're both dead, so destroy all neural connections you've created about Jekyll and Hyde and focus on Aladdin and Jasmine instead.

It feels like we're moving to 6B already...

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So does this Aladdin story line have nothing to do with the main characters except current proximity?

I have complained about A&E making some contrived connection (usually familial) to bring in their shiny new toys and then neglecting the core cast storylines. So if they finally bring in a villain/hero that has no connection and not even any core cast in the flashbacks, they are finally admitting that they are completely bored with the original cast and are only throwing them a bone here and there out of obligation. 

This stupid bit about Emma's hand shaking and calling Aladdin "savior" seems to be just a weak justification for some correlation they will make later. They will try to say that this was all vital to Emma learning a lesson that we all know that she has learned a few times over if they would just let her and the rest get on with their lives!

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Upon rewatching, I think the unsung MVP for the episode is baby Snowflake. In the scene in which Regina and Jekyll show up at Emma's house (she needs to start locking her front door so people don't just barge in like that), there's the shot where we see Regina and Jekyll as they say that Hyde escaped, then there's a cut to David, holding the baby, for a reaction shot. David doesn't react all that much, but right after the cut, the baby's head snaps around to look at Regina and Jekyll, and his eyes and mouth go wide, so it really looks like the scene is that Regina says that Hyde escaped, and then the baby's head whips around as he goes, "What? OMG!" Through the rest of the scene, the kid seems to be fascinated with Jekyll, probably because he sees his reflection in the glasses.

I still can't figure out how Hook got back onto the Jolly Roger. In one shot, he's nowhere in sight. We see Hyde and Rumple on the dock, and there's no Hook. Hook would have had to pass them to get on the ship. A split second later, Hook is on the deck. He's not wet, so he didn't swim to the ship and climb a rope on the other side. It's like he parachuted in. That one time, with Belle in danger, I could see Rumple letting him pass, but Hyde wouldn't have.

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1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

I still can't figure out how Hook got back onto the Jolly Roger. In one shot, he's nowhere in sight. We see Hyde and Rumple on the dock, and there's no Hook. Hook would have had to pass them to get on the ship. A split second later, Hook is on the deck. He's not wet, so he didn't swim to the ship and climb a rope on the other side. It's like he parachuted in.

All I can think about is that since he was going to find Emma and help her out, either he had already come back for reasons, or Emma poofed him right back on the ship when Belle called for him.

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I can't believe we weren't able to hit four pages with this episode.  Maybe we're close.

The Hook-appearing-out-of-nowhere thing is one that I didn't even think about during the episode.  But now that you guys have mentioned it, it is a huge hole.  So is the problem us or the Writers, LOL.

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I don't think this explains it, but I did notice that the gangplank to Hook's ship seems to be on a lower level than the dock Rumple and Hyde were standing on. Maybe there is another way to get onto the gangplank that we couldn't see from that camera angle?

ETA: There you go @Camera One! We made it to page four in the nick of time. 

Edited by InsertWordHere
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