Sex And The City - General Discussion

[BlueMoon81]

On 7/1/2019 at 8:59 AM, blondiec0332 said:

I do wonder if the writers knew how awful Carrie became or did they just think she was a character that viewers would overlook her flaws.  When I originally watched the show she didn't annoy me that much but rewatching it (which I have done several times) her flaws are so much more noticeable when you watch all the episodes in a short amount of time and also when you know upcoming plots.

On 7/1/2019 at 10:24 AM, andromeda331 said:

I've wondered that too. Given how Carrie gets worse every season. I can't decided if its the writers or that SJP got more control over the writing and her character or both. Carrie is the only character that never learns anything from anything she's done, doesn't change or get better and gets so much more screen time.

Yup I definitely think SJP becoming an Exec Producer and getting control of the writing is what made the character of Carrie decline in terms of depth, nuance and frankly....likability. Carrie NEVER learns anything, NEVER evolves, and becomes a piss-poor friend and love interest in later seasons. Some of the comments her character makes about the sexual spectrum are also tone deaf, immature and revolting. She’s supposed to be a SEX COLUMNIST, yet after season 1....anything that doesn’t revolve around monogamy or monogamous heterosexuality, she views as strange or degrades. I’ve noticed that the catty digs towards Sam by Carrie also increase as the seasons go on

I definitely agree that the writers must’ve thought the viewers would overlook Carrie’s laundry list of fundamental flaws (which didn’t happen for me as a viewer who watched it when it originally aired). Heck, in this thread there’s a link to an interview one of the head writers gave in 2016-2017 where he still defends Carrie’s awful behavior regarding Charlotte, the ring and buying Carrie’s apartment. If the show came out today, Carrie would have to be a minor character, as she would be reviled by most in my opinion 

Edited July 7, 2019 by BlueMoon81

[Ms Blue Jay]

Agree @BlueMoon81.... Carrie in Season 1 is so "I don't give a fuck" cool, she attracts Mr. Big by simply knocking into him and spilling her condoms everywhere.

Can you imagine the Carrie of Season 1, just as an example

going to that country cabin and shrieking at a squirrel?  (Aren't there squirrels in NYC?)

Carrie became really weird later on, LOL

[RealHousewife]

22 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I definitely agree that the writers must’ve thought the viewers would overlook Carrie’s laundry list of fundamental flaws (which didn’t happen for me as a viewer who watched it when it originally aired). Heck, in this thread there’s a link to an interview one of the head writers gave in 2016-2017 where he still defends Carrie’s awful behavior regarding Charlotte, the ring and buying Carrie’s apartment. If the show came out today, Carrie would have to be a minor character, as she would be reviled by most in my opinion 

That all seems to be the general consensus when I look at forums and such, but a coworker of mine thought Charlotte was in the wrong during the ring/apartment. She thought Charlotte should have offered her ring and didn’t see any entitlement or irresponsibility on Carrie’s part. I also know a lot of people who prefer Carrie to all the other characters. So I’m not sure whether or not she’d have to be a minor character. So many viewers got annoyed by Charlotte’s romanticism and desperation, in contrast, Miranda's lack of softness, and then Samantha’s sexual appetite not being the most relatable. Carrie was kind of in between in many regards. She appreciated love and romance, but not like Charlotte. She definitely had some personality flaws, but there was generally a sweetness in the way she spoke with people compared to Miranda. She was very sexual, but not to the degree of Samantha. People also considered Carrie the most fashionable. I have my criticisms of Carrie like everyone else, but I loved SJP in the role personally. I think she’s talented and charming. 

[blondiec0332]

55 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

She thought Charlotte should have offered her ring and didn’t see any entitlement or irresponsibility on Carrie’s part.

It's one thing to think Charlotte should have offered the ring (I don't think she should have) and another to think Carrie was right to criticize Charlotte for not offering the ring. Carrie was so full of shit when she said she wouldn't have taken it because she did end up taking it.  Carrie had already lived in Manhattan for close to 20 years. For her to have lived from paycheck to paycheck still was irresponsible. She had a job that was what nowadays would probably be described as an independent contractor. Did she even a contract with the newspaper? It was shortly after that she got a book deal and suddenly had money. I wonder if someone in the writer's room realized Carrie not having a lot of money was starting to look not too realistic for living the lifestyle she had.

[RealHousewife]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

It's one thing to think Charlotte should have offered the ring (I don't think she should have) and another to think Carrie was right to criticize Charlotte for not offering the ring. Carrie was so full of shit when she said she wouldn't have taken it because she did end up taking it.  Carrie had already lived in Manhattan for close to 20 years. For her to have lived from paycheck to paycheck still was irresponsible. She had a job that was what nowadays would probably be described as an independent contractor. Did she even a contract with the newspaper? It was shortly after that she got a book deal and suddenly had money. I wonder if someone in the writer's room realized Carrie not having a lot of money was starting to look not too realistic for living the lifestyle she had.

I agree. It would have been kind and generous of Charlotte to offer, but the way Carrie barged into her place all entitled was not right imo. It wasn’t Charlotte’s job to to fix Carrie’s financial problems which were the result of her own irresponsibility. It’s not Charlotte’s fault Carrie spend money like crazy on shoes. Carrie didn’t go broke living frugally, paying medical bills, or bad luck. She spent money like there was no tomorrow. As much as I loved how glamorous Carrie was, I’m glad they did take it down a notch at least a little bit in terms of how unrealistic her lifestyle was for her.

Edited July 8, 2019 by RealHousewife

[BlueMoon81]

10 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

That all seems to be the general consensus when I look at forums and such, but a coworker of mine thought Charlotte was in the wrong during the ring/apartment. She thought Charlotte should have offered her ring and didn’t see any entitlement or irresponsibility on Carrie’s part. I also know a lot of people who prefer Carrie to all the other characters. So I’m not sure whether or not she’d have to be a minor character. So many viewers got annoyed by Charlotte’s romanticism and desperation, in contrast, Miranda's lack of softness, and then Samantha’s sexual appetite not being the most relatable. Carrie was kind of in between in many regards. She appreciated love and romance, but not like Charlotte. She definitely had some personality flaws, but there was generally a sweetness in the way she spoke with people compared to Miranda. She was very sexual, but not to the degree of Samantha. People also considered Carrie the most fashionable. I have my criticisms of Carrie like everyone else, but I loved SJP in the role personally. I think she’s talented and charming. 

People love Carrie in large part due to that’s how the show went to painstaking lengths to present her as some kinda heroine (especially after SJP got Exec Producer Power after season 1). If the show came out today, from scratch, with Carrie doing all the awful things she did as a love interest and as a friend in general....and NEVER evolving or learning lessons, she wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as she is. And frankly, I’ve seen plenty of fans of the show who’s views have drastically changed regarding Carrie as they re-watch the show throughout the years. If the show came out today, Miranda and Sam would be the heroines for much of the audience in my opinion

As for Carrie and Charlotte’s ring...it was ridiculous for so many reasons. Firstly, Carrie was given the money to buy her apartment from Big. Big didn’t give it to her with any smarmy ulterior motives in mind either, he was never that type of character—he was in a position to help and so he did. For Carrie to dramatically tear up his check, then feel entitled that the girls pony up the money for her apartment was....revolting

I honestly don’t think Carrie appreciated love and romance—she gave lip service to enjoying those things but when she had no drama going with Aidan, she was jolting up in the middle of the night; when Big wanted to stay home and watch tv with her, she acted like he asked her to saw off her right arm (she did the same with Aidan in Season 4 Episode “All That Glitters”). I think Carrie loves high drama, cocktails, giving catty remarks, and judging everyone around her (but not wanting anyone to ever judge her) far more than she loves Romance and actual functional love 

[RealHousewife]

29 minutes ago, BlueMoon81 said:

People love Carrie in large part due to that’s how the show went to painstaking lengths to present her as some kinda heroine (especially after SJP got Exec Producer Power after season 1). If the show came out today, from scratch, with Carrie doing all the awful things she did as a love interest and as a friend in general....and NEVER evolving or learning lessons, she wouldn’t be anywhere near as popular as she is. And frankly, I’ve seen plenty of fans of the show who’s views have drastically changed regarding Carrie as they re-watch the show throughout the years. If the show came out today, Miranda and Sam would be the heroines for much of the audience in my opinion

As for Carrie and Charlotte’s ring...it was ridiculous for so many reasons. Firstly, Carrie was given the money to buy her apartment from Big. Big didn’t give it to her with any smarmy ulterior motives in mind either, he was never that type of character—he was in a position to help and so he did. For Carrie to dramatically tear up his check, then feel entitled that the girls pony up the money for her apartment was....revolting

I honestly don’t think Carrie appreciated love and romance—she gave lip service to enjoying those things but when she had no drama going with Aidan, she was jolting up in the middle of the night; when Big wanted to stay home and watch tv with her, she acted like he asked her to saw off her right arm (she did the same with Aidan in Season 4 Episode “All That Glitters”). I think Carrie loves high drama, cocktails, giving catty remarks, and judging everyone around her (but not wanting anyone to ever judge her) far more than she loves Romance and actual functional love 

Those are a lot of good points. It definitely depends whose opinion you ask imo. 

Yeah I too wish Carrie evolved more. A lot of us loved that Charlotte showed growth. During the beginning, she was kind of like a Disney princess with her expectations, and then she found her prince charming in Harry, who definitely didn't have Trey's looks, but was so much better suited to her. She even became Jewish. Some of her annoying Charlotte qualities were still there even at the end (loudly announcing Carrie was finally engaged after so many years to a bunch of strangers, seriously, those Charlotte moments only make me more of a Miranda or even Sam), but she had still matured from the chick who'd end things with a guy to to his taste in china patterns. I think that was probably why it took so long for Charlotte to get married in the first place, despite yearning for marriage and a family so badly. She said herself-pretty, nice, and smart-but even a babe like Charlotte would have a hard time getting hitched if she were so immature in some regards and beyond selective. 

If I were in a position and needed help and had to turn to someone, and it was either a friend vs Big, I would have chosen Big due to his financial position as well. He didn't have to give up anything he loved, and like you said, he had no ulterior motives. 

I agree that Carrie was a drama queen. It can be annoying being around women like her. It's like they know they're making bad decisions, but they can't not have drama. I do think she loved Big for whatever reason. Big had charm and was fun and unpredictable, but I was more of an Aidan girl. I'd want someone who was really into me, not someone I felt I had to push myself towards, or who wouldn't want to marry me, then marry someone else, then decide after all to marry me, then back out, then wait still loves me. It was all too much. Aidan may not have had Big's level of wealth or excitement, but he was kind, reliable, all-around good person, not to mention attractive. Big gave her the drama though. Big's character was kind of like Carrie's-he's supposed to be "the one." The writers wrote him to be the character Carrie has the sparks with, and there is just something so damn hard to resist when you have those sparks, but I ultimately value a loving man over that. While I'm not Charlotte York levels of romantic, the romantic in me would still like to think that in the end Carrie and Big finally live happily ever after and love each other deeply.

Edited July 9, 2019 by RealHousewife

[blondiec0332]

14 hours ago, BlueMoon81 said:

I think Carrie loves high drama, cocktails, giving catty remarks, and judging everyone around her (but not wanting anyone to ever judge her) far more than she loves Romance and actual functional love 

Carrie liked attention.  The push/pull with Big got her attention. When Big wanted her he paid attention to her and when they were on the outs the girls paid attention to her.  But with Aidan there wasn't a lot of attention. He loved her but he didn't worship her. He had his own business, a dog and a cabin he was fixing up.  And because things were good with Aidan the girls didn't pay much attention to her. She had to beg Samantha to come to the cabin with her. She liked Petrovsky because he paid attention to her but then they went to Paris and he paid less attention to her so didn't like him anymore.

[OldButHappy]

On 6/5/2019 at 3:36 PM, andromeda331 said:

Maybe just a basic column where she could write anything she wanted. Women probably would have still enjoyed reading about Carrie and her friends various dating, trips, and etc. 

If she was around today, she'd have a podcast.

Apple recommended(!) a comedy podcast recently(Call Her Daddy)....two twenty-somethings discussing sex (hook-ups) frankly in (I'm told) a comedic way.  Yipes.  I'm no pearl-clutcher, but I couldn't take more than two episodes.  A lot has changed.

Edited July 10, 2019 by OldButHappy

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/9/2019 at 12:10 AM, BlueMoon81 said:

As for Carrie and Charlotte’s ring...it was ridiculous for so many reasons. Firstly, Carrie was given the money to buy her apartment from Big. Big didn’t give it to her with any smarmy ulterior motives in mind either, he was never that type of character—he was in a position to help and so he did. For Carrie to dramatically tear up his check, then feel entitled that the girls pony up the money for her apartment was....revolting

I've talked about this so much (but I enjoy it) but it wasn't just Big either!  Sam and Miranda offered the money too!  But noOOOoooOOOOoooOOOOO it had to be from CHARLOTTE because Charlotte didn't DESERVE that ring!  Again --- revolting.

I've put forward the theory that when SJP became Exec Producer she turned Carrie into a prude and Samantha into a laughingstock so that Carrie could judge her and ridicule her.  I admit I've pushed that theory.

HOWEVER, something I don't understand.  SJP is on the HBO show "Divorce" now and she cusses left and right.  SJP used to make all the rounds on talk shows during SATC times and brag about what a prude she is and how she would never cuss like Carrie in real life and just hates to do it/wears bras during lovemaking scenes blah blah blah.  So now that SJP has joined Divorce and says fuck, shit, motherfucker -- what is all that about?  Why was she one way on SATC and now seemingly a different way?  Has anyone else noticed this or thought about this?

Edited July 10, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[christie]

9 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I've talked about this so much (but I enjoy it) but it wasn't just Big either!  Sam and Miranda offered the money too!  But noOOOoooOOOOoooOOOOO it had to be from CHARLOTTE because Charlotte didn't DESERVE that ring!  Again --- revolting.

It wasn't just the ring that Charlotte didn't deserve; it was her Park Avenue appartment as well. She really came aross as being jealous and envious of Charlotte and more deserving of everything that Charlotte had. 

[RealHousewife]

On 7/9/2019 at 2:18 PM, blondiec0332 said:

Carrie liked attention.  The push/pull with Big got her attention. When Big wanted her he paid attention to her and when they were on the outs the girls paid attention to her.  But with Aidan there wasn't a lot of attention. He loved her but he didn't worship her. He had his own business, a dog and a cabin he was fixing up.  And because things were good with Aidan the girls didn't pay much attention to her. She had to beg Samantha to come to the cabin with her. She liked Petrovsky because he paid attention to her but then they went to Paris and he paid less attention to her so didn't like him anymore.

I definitely agree Carrie liked attention. While Aidan didn't worship her, neither did Big imo. He liked a slower pace than Carrie, made a point that he didn't want to marry anyone ever again while he was with her, then suddenly married Natasha. IRC, Aidan didn't take nearly as long to fall for Carrie and want to spend the rest of his life with her. Their relationship didn't feel as forced on Carrie's part. Aidan seemed attentive enough, just not dramatic enough for a drama queen like Carrie. He didn't give as much material for her to write about in her column or complain about to the girls for attention. It's been awhile since I watched the show, so forgive me if I have any of this wrong, it's just how I remember it. 

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

HOWEVER, something I don't understand.  SJP is on the HBO show "Divorce" now and she cusses left and right.  SJP used to make all the rounds on talk shows during SATC times and brag about what a prude she is and how she would never cuss like Carrie in real life and just hates to do it/wears bras during lovemaking scenes blah blah blah.  So now that SJP has joined Divorce and says fuck, shit, motherfucker -- what is all that about?  Why was she one way on SATC and now seemingly a different way?  Has anyone else noticed this or thought about this?

Acting is a hobby of mine. I don't curse a lot IRL. I will if I'm acting. When it comes to love scenes, I refuse to do nudity as well. With cursing, I feel like no one's going to care too much hearing me use language. With sex scenes, I'm sorry I'd die if I had no idea who in this world has seen me naked. I don't know how women like Kim Cattrall do it. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

But that's my entire point.  SJP was "ACTING" as a sex columnist on Sex and the City.  You'll notice she rarely swore in character and never did nude scenes.  That's fine, but she also made a huge deal on talk shows about how Carrie was so "out of character" for her as she was prudish and never swore.  Kind of judging Carrie and anyone that related to or liked her, IMO.  And also, kind of steering the freewheeling, having-sex-like-a-man character of Season 1 to become a shrieking infant of Season 3 and beyond that recoiled when a squirrel was around, or when anyone had the nerve to be bisexual.

Then after SATC wrapped she went on "Divorce" and acted as a character that cusses way way more than Carrie, the young, Manhattanite, jaded seen-it-all-before sex columnist ever did.  So........

Edited July 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

6 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

But that's my entire point.  SJP was "ACTING" as a sex columnist on Sex and the City.  You'll notice she rarely swore in character and never did nude scenes.  That's fine, but she also made a huge deal on talk shows about how Carrie was so "out of character" for her as she was prudish and never swore.  Kind of judging Carrie and anyone that related to or liked her, IMO.  And also, kind of steering the freewheeling, having-sex-like-a-man character of Season 1 to become a shrieking infant of Season 3 and beyond that recoiled when a squirrel was around, or when anyone had the nerve to be bisexual.

Then after SATC wrapped she went on "Divorce" and acted as a character that cusses way way more than Carrie, the young, Manhattanite, jaded seen-it-all-before sex columnist ever did.  So........

With SATC, I'm not sure how much of the switch was her or the writers. I also remember Carrie saying at one point she thought it was time for women their age to start covering up and leave the sexy clothes to girls in their 20's. I thought that was some bs when all the women were in great shape and not THAT old. 

With Divorce there was no nudity though, right? I relate to SJP with a lot of this stuff. I don't curse a lot and try to avoid anything that's vulgar for no reason, but I will curse if I have to. Some people think if you're loose with language, you're loose with everything. When it comes to graphic love scenes/nudity, I'm out. If someone hears me use the f word, oh well. I can still look them in the eye. I don't want to think of my father, guy friends, or some creepy guy out there seeing my boobs, thank you very much. (The sass wasn't directed at you, but people who have judged me for not being open enough with what I will do for a role.)

[Ms Blue Jay]

I'm not Miss Nudity either, but if I accept a role as Carrie Bradshaw, sex columnist, based on the amazing book by Candace Bushnell about incredibly jaded Manhattanites in the 90s who engaged in casual sex and other nontraditional behaviours sometimes simply to drum up topics for her weekly column, I'm going to assume it's going to be a very sexual show.  Also, it's on HBO... so...... yeah.  SJP was not forced to take this role.  Some of us are just turned off by SJP's trying to warp the fictional character of Carrie Bradshaw into her own personal fantasy of a doll who found everything horrific or scandalous.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I'm not Miss Nudity either, but if I accept a role as Carrie Bradshaw, sex columnist, based on the amazing book by Candace Bushnell about incredibly jaded Manhattanites in the 90s who engaged in casual sex and other nontraditional behaviours sometimes simply to drum up topics for her weekly column, I'm going to assume it's going to be a very sexual show.  Also, it's on HBO... so...... yeah.  SJP was not forced to take this role.  Some of us are just turned off by SJP's trying to warp the fictional character of Carrie Bradshaw into her own personal fantasy of a doll who found everything horrific or scandalous.

Exactly, she didn't have to accept the role. If she doesn't like nudity then skip the role. Also, why is okay for her to accept a role and nix that part but its not okay for the other three actresses to do the same thing? Why just her? 

[andromeda331]

12 hours ago, christie said:

It wasn't just the ring that Charlotte didn't deserve; it was her Park Avenue appartment as well. She really came aross as being jealous and envious of Charlotte and more deserving of everything that Charlotte had. 

Oh, she was jealous and envious. She didn't get to keep the ring and Aiden wasn't allowing her to keep then apartment. Of course its different for one thing Charlotte got married and divorced its not surprising for someone to end up with some stuff after a divorce prenup or no prenup. Also Trey could give Charlotte the apartment he came from money and had tons of it while Aiden didn't. But also your right that Carrie does think she deserves it more then Charlotte. Carrie believed she was entitled to it. She was entitled to be given her apartment, money, clothes anything and everything she wanted. She's the type to completely believe she's entitled to show up at Charlotte's house and badger her into giving her the ring. I really can't believe people can look at that scene and think Carrie was in the right. She wasn't broke because of an emergency, health problem, lay off or anything else. Nope she was broke due to her own fault. She chose to blow all her money in shoes. She chose to be irresponsible why is up to anyone else to bail her out?  She's a woman in her late thirties to early forties not some young woman who got in over her head. She should have to get herself out of that mess and maybe learn from it. Nope, not Carrie she'll barge into your home and yell at you for not offering her any money. She doesn't care about any of your reasons. Charlotte should have thrown her out.  Conveniently we never see Carrie pay Charlotte back not even when she got that advanced but she continues to spend as much as before. She wants all those things, she thinks she's entitled to it but she won't actually work for it. Miranda and Samantha spent money too but they both had jobs that paid for it.  Both work really hard at their jobs. Charlotte did too before she quit which was stupid but Carrie's the only one spending thousands of dollars on designer clothes, shoes, and anything she wants but without a job that will pay for it. Yeah she got the job writing for Vogue but up until that moment only wrote a weekly column. She didn't look for work elsewhere or in addition and it doesn't even occur to her to until she realizes she blew all her money. Then all she does is get a job at Vogue and take Charlotte's ring. She never decides to do that before or afterwards to expand her career or to earn money. It doesn't even occur to her to write a book. Also, as it turns out the only reason Charlotte isn't working after her divorce is because she's over qualified. So it wasn't like Charlotte didn't look.

[WonderWuman73]

I’m nodding at everything that’s being said about Carrie. She is not the same character like in Season one.  I wonder if they dressed her crazy outfits on purpose to distract us from her horrible behavior? Lol 

She’s a sex columnist and was so judgmental and ignorant  about sex. I became more annoyed with her character around the time  she started to stalk Big. Then it started to snowball.....The ignorance about bisexuality, nightmares about how there was no drama when she was dating Aidan, forcing him to forgive her, the screeching about a squirrel, allowing Big to come up to the cabin,  loving the nightlife she got to boogie without Aidan and even complaining about it in the second film with Big, Charlotte not offering her money she thinks she’s entitled to, always turning every conversation back to herself, stalking Natasha then Nina Katz her because  God forbid someone doesn’t like her, screeching again about Berger’s use of the word  Scrunchie, and shutting down The Russian every time he wanted to talk about his friend with Cancer. Im sure there is more. She’s just too much. 

I adored the rest of the ladies. They evolved and changed while Carrie was still pulling her crap in the films. 

[blondiec0332]

9 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

. I also remember Carrie saying at one point she thought it was time for women their age to start covering up and leave the sexy clothes to girls in their 20's. I thought that was some bs when all the women were in great shape and not THAT old. 

Carrie was the last person who should be giving fashion advice.  I thought a lot of her outfits were atrocious. I read that SJP and costume designer Pat Field intentionally pushed the envelope with Carrie's fashions simply because they wanted to.  Samantha, Charlotte and Miranda all had killer wardrobes.

2 hours ago, WonderWuman73 said:

I adored the rest of the ladies. They evolved and changed while Carrie was still pulling her crap in the films. 

I agree. IMO Samantha, Charlotte and Miranda were all fleshed out characters.  I understood them. They all had life altering events happen to them but with Carrie it was just her dating woes. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Charlotte did too before she quit which was stupid but Carrie's the only one spending thousands of dollars on designer clothes, shoes, and anything she wants but without a job that will pay for it. Yeah she got the job writing for Vogue but up until that moment only wrote a weekly column. She didn't look for work elsewhere or in addition and it doesn't even occur to her to until she realizes she blew all her money. Then all she does is get a job at Vogue and take Charlotte's ring. She never decides to do that before or afterwards to expand her career or to earn money. It doesn't even occur to her to write a book. Also, as it turns out the only reason Charlotte isn't working after her divorce is because she's over qualified. So it wasn't like Charlotte didn't look.

One season she's broke and can't buy her own place - "practically homeless" I think we're talking about season 4.  Then only 2 years later it's Season 6 and she's flouncing around Prada where everyone knows her name and buying a $3000 shirt for a new man in her life.  She's an idiot.  Why don't you pay Charlotte back with that money you idiot?

She didn't even "write books".  Publishers just took her columns and MADE them into books.  Then sold them for her.  She is the luckiest idiot alive.

[ByTor]

3 hours ago, WonderWuman73 said:

She’s a sex columnist

If you recall, she even backpedalled on that.  When the publishers were designing her book cover and they wanted her naked on the cover, they told Carrie that she’s a sex columnist, and Carrie said (paraphrasing) “No I’m not, my column is about relationships.”  Last I saw her column was Sex and the City, not Relationships and the City. 

[RealHousewife]

6 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Oh, she was jealous and envious. She didn't get to keep the ring and Aiden wasn't allowing her to keep then apartment. Of course its different for one thing Charlotte got married and divorced its not surprising for someone to end up with some stuff after a divorce prenup or no prenup. Also Trey could give Charlotte the apartment he came from money and had tons of it while Aiden didn't. But also your right that Carrie does think she deserves it more then Charlotte. Carrie believed she was entitled to it. She was entitled to be given her apartment, money, clothes anything and everything she wanted. She's the type to completely believe she's entitled to show up at Charlotte's house and badger her into giving her the ring. I really can't believe people can look at that scene and think Carrie was in the right. She wasn't broke because of an emergency, health problem, lay off or anything else. Nope she was broke due to her own fault. She chose to blow all her money in shoes. She chose to be irresponsible why is up to anyone else to bail her out?  She's a woman in her late thirties to early forties not some young woman who got in over her head. She should have to get herself out of that mess and maybe learn from it. Nope, not Carrie she'll barge into your home and yell at you for not offering her any money. She doesn't care about any of your reasons. Charlotte should have thrown her out.  Conveniently we never see Carrie pay Charlotte back not even when she got that advanced but she continues to spend as much as before. She wants all those things, she thinks she's entitled to it but she won't actually work for it. Miranda and Samantha spent money too but they both had jobs that paid for it.  Both work really hard at their jobs. Charlotte did too before she quit which was stupid but Carrie's the only one spending thousands of dollars on designer clothes, shoes, and anything she wants but without a job that will pay for it. Yeah she got the job writing for Vogue but up until that moment only wrote a weekly column. She didn't look for work elsewhere or in addition and it doesn't even occur to her to until she realizes she blew all her money. Then all she does is get a job at Vogue and take Charlotte's ring. She never decides to do that before or afterwards to expand her career or to earn money. It doesn't even occur to her to write a book. Also, as it turns out the only reason Charlotte isn't working after her divorce is because she's over qualified. So it wasn't like Charlotte didn't look.

Exactly! Only thing is she was actually 35, which is still old enough to know better than to be so irresponsible. 

I always kind of thought Carrie reminded me of girls I know who fancy themselves sex experts just because they like sex and aren’t so old school they wait for marriage or to be in love. I’ve had friends like this. One of them lost her virginity and immediately talked about sex as if she was a porn star. 

[blondiec0332]

11 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

I always kind of thought Carrie reminded me of girls I know who fancy themselves sex experts just because they like sex and aren’t so old school they wait for marriage or to be in love. I’ve had friends like this. One of them lost her virginity and immediately talked about sex as if she was a porn star. 

From what we saw Carrie seemed pretty tame in bed.  We all know Samantha was adventurous in bed.  Miranda and Charlotte both talked about some different things but Carrie never offered up much sex talk when it came to her personal sex life.

[RealHousewife]

1 minute ago, blondiec0332 said:

From what we saw Carrie seemed pretty tame in bed.  We all know Samantha was adventurous in bed.  Miranda and Charlotte both talked about some different things but Carrie never offered up much sex talk when it came to her personal sex life.

I don’t remember anything suggesting Carrie was adventurous in bed either. I do remember once she brought up having the best orgasm of her life, but then Samantha followed that with the revelation that she was now a lesbian. 😂 Carrie was all excited to brag about her news but was immediately one-upped.

[ByTor]

8 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Carrie was adventurous in bed either. I do remember once she brought up having the best orgasm of her life

Which she said was unusual for her, because she usually had good orgasms only with men she was in love with.

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, blondiec0332 said:

From what we saw Carrie seemed pretty tame in bed.  We all know Samantha was adventurous in bed.  Miranda and Charlotte both talked about some different things but Carrie never offered up much sex talk when it came to her personal sex life.

She really was compared to the other three. You'd think Charlotte or Miranda would be the tame ones and not the woman who wrote a sex column. 

39 minutes ago, RealHousewife said:

Exactly! Only thing is she was actually 35, which is still old enough to know better than to be so irresponsible. 

I always kind of thought Carrie reminded me of girls I know who fancy themselves sex experts just because they like sex and aren’t so old school they wait for marriage or to be in love. I’ve had friends like this. One of them lost her virginity and immediately talked about sex as if she was a porn star. 

That's exactly who she sounds like! I never thought of that before but she really does.

[blondiec0332]

50 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Which she said was unusual for her, because she usually had good orgasms only with men she was in love with.

How sad for her.  But I guess maybe that is why she was looking for long term boyfriends.

[RealHousewife]

7 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

Carrie was the last person who should be giving fashion advice.  I thought a lot of her outfits were atrocious. I read that SJP and costume designer Pat Field intentionally pushed the envelope with Carrie's fashions simply because they wanted to.  Samantha, Charlotte and Miranda all had killer wardrobes.

I thought Carrie’s wardrobe was fun because she took all these risks. I do think Charlotte York is one of the most underrated style icons of all time. For me she is up there with Audrey Hepburn and Jackie O. Samantha also has a sexy yet classy style, absolutely loved it. Miranda was more businesslike but still chic. 

[voiceover]

On 7/8/2019 at 9:10 PM, BlueMoon81 said:

Carrie was given the money to buy her apartment from Big. Big didn’t give it to her with any smarmy ulterior motives in mind either, he was never that type of character—he was in a position to help and so he did. 

Wow! Finally someone agrees with me (and Samantha) on this subject.  Though I understand the flipside too.

I think the fanbase was most united against the whole dropping of any mention, ever, of Carrie repaying the loan!  Especially because it could so easily have been a throwaway one-liner ("Here's your check!"); not to mention that her "Advance from France" = logically served up as final payment.

I've just started watching Mom and there was a sl for Season 5 in which the main character gambled away a significant sum that had been borrowed with another intent.

But the very next ep finds her dealing with angry, resentful fallout (she's a gambling addict) and trying to make amends by **repaying the money she borrowed!!!

I was all, Hey! Look at that!  It can be done!

[ByTor]

I just rewatched Ring a Ding Ding.  Maybe I'm missing some innuendo, but I never heard Carrie tell Charlotte to sell her ring and give her the money.  The conversation went: Charlotte: "You need to learn to stand on your own" . Carrie: "What is that on your finger? And you're telling me to be more independent?"  Charlotte: "It's my ring, I can wear it if I want to. So what if it makes me feel better?"  I took that to mean Carrie was insulting Charlotte for not letting go of her past. Then later on they're in a restaurant having wine, Carrie apologizes, Charlotte says she didn't want to give up being Mrs. Trey MacDougal, and then she offers Carrie the ring and tells her she wants her to use it for her down payment.  I'm not sticking up for Carrie, I don't like her (it's really hard to feel sorry for someone whining about money as she's sitting there in her Chanel top), and I think she was mean as hell the way she spoke to Charlotte, but I didn't get demanding Charlotte sells her ring from their argument. 

Or...was the innuendo I'm missing in the line "And what gets me is, you're a volunteer, you don't even have to work"?

[Ms Blue Jay]

6 hours ago, voiceover said:

I've just started watching Mom and there was a sl for Season 5 in which the main character gambled away a significant sum that had been borrowed with another intent.

But the very next ep finds her dealing with angry, resentful fallout (she's a gambling addict) and trying to make amends by **repaying the money she borrowed!!!

I was all, Hey! Look at that!  It can be done!

I love the show "Mom".

Even on SJP's new show "Divorce" she borrows a bunch of money from her rich friend and then a few episodes later she's giving her a $75,000 check.  I wonder if that's any sort of shoutout to us angry SATC fans.

@ByTor I lay out my opinion of what happened in this post I link below.

In the episode, after Big, Miranda, and Sam offer her the money, Carrie refuses, and pointedly looks at Charlotte, who is pointedly looking away.  Then Charlotte deliberately changes the subject.

Then Carrie goes right to Charlotte's house and yells at her.  I mean, it's pretty obvious what Carrie wants Charlotte to do.  She goes to Charlotte's house and says 1) you don't have to work 2) you got this house "for free" 3) you're not independent 4) you wear that ring when you're not even married blah blah blah so apparently her point is that Charlotte has all this "unearned money" and should have spoken up to offer it to Carrie in that restaurant.  It's pretty clear.  Charlotte then even has to defend herself by saying it's not her place to help fix Carrie's finances and she doesn't want money to come between friends.  What else could Carrie be telling her to do?

Carrie even defends the financial mistakes in her life by saying to Charlotte "You have made some mistakes too." She uses Charlotte's DIVORCE as an excuse for what Carrie's done to her finances!  How is Charlotte's divorce at all relevant to that!

Edited July 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

What else could Carrie be telling her to do?

IMO what she wants is for Charlotte to offer her the money because Carrie clearly thinks Charlotte has a hell of a lot more money than she actually does.  I don't, however, think she demanded that she sell the ring to get her the money.

[blondiec0332]

4 minutes ago, ByTor said:

IMO what she wants is for Charlotte to offer her the money because Carrie clearly thinks Charlotte has a hell of a lot more money than she actually does.  I don't, however, think she demanded that she sell the ring to get her the money.

No she didn't demand but she heavily implied she at the very least wanted Charlotte to offer the money.  She turned down Miranda and Samantha's offers but accepts Charlotte's.  That makes me think Carrie thought Charlotte was in a better position to lose that much money.  Which even if she was Charlotte was still under no obligation to offer.

[ByTor]

Just now, blondiec0332 said:

No she didn't demand but she heavily implied she at the very least wanted Charlotte to offer the money.  She turned down Miranda and Samantha's offers but accepts Charlotte's.  That makes me think Carrie thought Charlotte was in a better position to lose that much money.  Which even if she was Charlotte was still under no obligation to offer.

Oh, Carrie more than implied she wanted Charlotte to loan her the money, but the controversy I always see is that she made Charlotte sell the ring.  All she did regarding the ring was to call Charlotte a hypocrite for wearing it when she told Carrie she should be independent.  Carrie calling someone a hypocrite is sure funny though!

[Ms Blue Jay]

12 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Oh, Carrie more than implied she wanted Charlotte to loan her the money, but the controversy I always see is that she made Charlotte sell the ring.  All she did regarding the ring was to call Charlotte a hypocrite for wearing it when she told Carrie she should be independent.  Carrie calling someone a hypocrite is sure funny though!

I don't recall the controversy being "Carrie demanded Charlotte sell her ring."  (Also, I'm pretty sure Charlotte didn't sell the ring.  She gave it to Carrie to sell).  I recall the controversy being that people hate that Carrie stormed over to Charlotte's house and berated her, angry at her for not offering to loan her the money.

(From script online)

Why didn't you offer me the money?
I knew you were going to say that.
I wouldn't take it.   (<----- a lie)
Then what does it matter if I offer it or not?
Because I would have offered it to you.  You're my friend.
Money and friendship don't mix.

https://www.springfieldspringfield.co.uk/view_episode_scripts.php?tv-show=sex-and-the-city&episode=s04e16

It's only after this tirade from Carrie that Charlotte feels guilty and then decides to give Carrie the ring.  It also comes after Carrie berates her for wearing the ring even though she's not married anymore (which you can also read in the script.)

What is that on your finger?
I just wear it when I'm alone in my house.
And you're telling me to be more independent? 

Carrie goes to great lengths trying to equate Charlotte living her in house and wearing that ring with Carrie's own financial messes.  So yes, then Charlotte gave Carrie the ring to sell.

Edited July 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

Just now, Ms Blue Jay said:

I don't recall the controversy being "Carrie demanded Charlotte sell her ring."  I recall the controversy being that people hate that Carrie stormed over to Charlotte's house and yelled at her, angry at her for not offering to loan her the money.

I've heard it argued plenty of times that Carrie told Charlotte to sell the ring, maybe we're just talking to people with different opinions.  There is no doubt that she expected Charlotte to offer her the money...which she would never accept, that is, until she did.  LOL and she calls Charlotte a hypocrite.

[Ms Blue Jay]

@ByTor Charlotte never sold the ring.  She gives the ring to Carrie. You can read the script.

I want you to take the ring for your down payment.
I can't.
You love this ring.
No, I love what the ring represented. 

(Of course, Carrie does take the ring.)

Edited July 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[ByTor]

1 minute ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

@ByTor Charlotte never sold the ring.  She gives the ring to Carrie. You can read the script.

I want you to take the ring for your down payment.
I can't.
You love this ring.
No, I love what the ring represented. 

(Of course, Carrie does take the ring.)

That's right, she did.  And she did take the ring...which again she would NEVER do 🙄

She was an idiot for not taking it from Big as a no-strings loan.

[blondiec0332]

8 hours ago, voiceover said:

On 7/9/2019 at 12:10 AM, BlueMoon81 said:

Carrie was given the money to buy her apartment from Big. Big didn’t give it to her with any smarmy ulterior motives in mind either, he was never that type of character—he was in a position to help and so he did. 

Wow! Finally someone agrees with me (and Samantha) on this subject.  Though I understand the flipside too.

14 minutes ago, ByTor said:

She was an idiot for not taking it from Big as a no-strings loan.

I thought Miranda was wrong for telling Carrie it was wrong to accept the money from Big but thought it was OK for her to accept the money from her or Samantha. Big was never going to use the loan to take advantage of her.

[ByTor]

1 minute ago, blondiec0332 said:

Big was never going to use the loan to take advantage of her.

Yep, loan being the operative word.  If he was just going to gift her the money, then yes, IMO that would have been a problem.  Otherwise, so what?  She would have been indebted to him?  It's not like she'd have to see him, she could always mail her repayments to him.

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I thought Miranda was wrong for telling Carrie it was wrong to accept the money from Big but thought it was OK for her to accept the money from her or Samantha. Big was never going to use the loan to take advantage of her.

Also Big was rich rich.  He was supposed to be very, very wealthy.  He had a freaking personal driver.  LOL.  He's not the guy taking Carrie out to MacDonalds and then expecting something from her.  LOL.  I doubt Carrie paid for a fucking thing in their dating history (okay except for that time she actually DID buy MacDonalds and then threw it at him.)

I also thought it was really disingenuous for Carrie to go to Big for "BUSINESS ADVICE" but really it was just a front to whine to Big about her problems, get him to offer to fix them, and then reject it for no reason.  Idiot, what kind of thing can Big tell you to make $30,000 in a week?   There with her stupid dress and her gloves, oh she is so aggravating.

Script:

Simple.
I'll tell you how to get the money.

Big offered me the money for my down payment. But I could never take it. Could I?
You couldn't.
He just gave you $30,000?
As a loan. I would pay him back. 

I bet it was Carrie who decided it was a loan.  I doubt Big would even remember or care for it back.

Carrie:  Last time I took the bus, it was like 75 cents.

Oh god she is so awful!!!!!!!  Too good to take the freaking bus!

Edited July 12, 2019 by Ms Blue Jay

[RealHousewife]

I agreed with Charlotte about keeping friendship and money separate. I am generous with friends, and I have loaned out a lot of money to ones who truly needed it. But I generally think friendship and money shouldn’t mix. 

I am not wealthy, but sometimes all you need is to have more than your friends, and everyone thinks that you should always be the one to treat to dinner, cover things, etc. That alone can get really old, especially when you’re not rich but maybe just don’t have children or debt. It still doesn’t mean you’re made of money. I’ve had a lot of personal expenses no one knows about, but since I have a decent salary and am single on top of it, people think my bank account is fuller than it is. 

I had a Carrie type of friend actually. She lived beyond her means while all the rest of us watched our budgets. Then when she didn’t have a job and her parents were no longer making big bucks, she expected all her friends to support her lifestyle. It wasn’t enough opening up our homes, making sure she had food to eat, that her dog was taken care of, and helping her out with expenses here and there. She wanted us all to pay for her to go tanning, get her nails done, only buy salon products for her hair, stuff that’s totally unnecessary and that a lot of us didn’t even splurge on ourselves at the time. Sure I had more money than my friend, but I did so by sacrificing a lot of stuff when I was younger that she didn’t. It didn’t seem fair to me that she went on trips while I did not, splurged on designer things while I did not, spent a lot of money on upkeep while I did not, and then she goes through it all and expected me to spend the little money I had just out of college. I lived at home, never got my nails done, didn’t go on any big trips, was frugal with my hair, just lived really simple in my early 20’s.

This was many years ago. I’m now a lot older and have more money, but I’m still not Donald Trump and don’t appreciate people who think it should always be up to the single people to help out their married friends with kids or whatever. I could go on and on about this subject, but Carrie really rubbed me the wrong way in that episode. I can’t stand irresponsible, entitled friends. Friendship should be give and take, and it’s always easy for those who don’t have money to pretend that they’d be generous and save the day when they don’t have to. Carrie said she would have offered the money to Charlotte, but would she really? Maybe, maybe not. I also have a lot of people in my life who do have a ton of money, and I never take advantage. Some of them are really generous and always try to grab the check, pay for things when we’re out, but I make sure to pay my fair share no matter how much more than they have than me. It’s the best way to keep a friendship healthy imo. 

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I agreed with Charlotte about keeping friendship and money separate. I am generous with friends, and I have loaned out a lot of money to ones who truly needed it. But I generally think friendship and money shouldn’t mix. 

I am not wealthy, but sometimes all you need is to have more than your friends, and everyone thinks that you should always be the one to treat to dinner, cover things, etc. That alone can get really old, especially when you’re not rich but maybe just don’t have children or debt. It still doesn’t mean you’re made of money. I’ve had a lot of personal expenses no one knows about, but since I have a decent salary and am single on top of it, people think my bank account is fuller than it is. 

I had a Carrie type of friend actually. She lived beyond her means while all the rest of us watched our budgets. Then when she didn’t have a job and her parents were no longer making big bucks, she expected all her friends to support her lifestyle. It wasn’t enough opening up our homes, making sure she had food to eat, that her dog was taken care of, and helping her out with expenses here and there. She wanted us all to pay for her to go tanning, get her nails done, only buy salon products for her hair, stuff that’s totally unnecessary and that a lot of us didn’t even splurge on ourselves at the time. Sure I had more money than my friend, but I did so by sacrificing a lot of stuff when I was younger that she didn’t. It didn’t seem fair to me that she went on trips while I did not, splurged on designer things while I did not, spent a lot of money on upkeep while I did not, and then she goes through it all and expected me to spend the little money I had just out of college. I lived at home, never got my nails done, didn’t go on any big trips, was frugal with my hair, just lived really simple in my early 20’s.

This was many years ago. I’m now a lot older and have more money, but I’m still not Donald Trump and don’t appreciate people who think it should always be up to the single people to help out their married friends with kids or whatever. I could go on and on about this subject, but Carrie really rubbed me the wrong way in that episode. I can’t stand irresponsible, entitled friends. Friendship should be give and take, and it’s always easy for those who don’t have money to pretend that they’d be generous and save the day when they don’t have to. Carrie said she would have offered the money to Charlotte, but would she really? Maybe, maybe not. I also have a lot of people in my life who do have a ton of money, and I never take advantage. Some of them are really generous and always try to grab the check, pay for things when we’re out, but I make sure to pay my fair share no matter how much more than they have than me. It’s the best way to keep a friendship healthy imo. 

I agreed with Charlotte too because she's right it so often goes bad. Her reason and story made perfect sense to me. But of course Carrie doesn't care or want to care. My mom made the same mistake with one of her friends and this was after they'd been best friends for over five decades. She needed the money or she was going to lose her house so my mom loaned her the money twice. Never saw a dime, but noticed trips and other big purchases posted on her Facebook page, rarely heard from her again. When my mom was sick having health problems the last two years of her life still saw no money from her and only visited once. Rarely called. They had been best friends for decades since they were kid, she had been really helpful when my brother was sick when he was a baby, and my mom always felt bad for her because she was married to a male Carrie someone who always had to have the newest best cars, trucks, RVS, and trips and everything even though they didn't have money for it. That she was a nice person who married the wrong person, had to work three jobs sometimes because he was always blowing money.  Which yes she was a nice person, she did sometimes have to work three jobs but she never put her foot down or left him. Which was why my dad and I often disagreed that it was all her husband's fault.   If she felt bad then why didn't she pay my parents back? Why didn't ever leave him? She always seemed to be enjoying those trips and expensive cars. Or help out in other ways she could have really helped when my mom was sick. Also she lied that they were going to sell their expensive RV they never did and tried to lie it was neighbor's when my dad drove by their house and saw it because he just knew she lied. My mom was so hurt that she lied about selling it or more likely only said it to help convince my mom to loan her the money to make it look like either she'd be able to pay my mom back or was going to be more responsible. She burned the bridges with all her friends and most of her family by borrowing money and never paying it back. My dad finally told her off after my mom died. Its exactly why I hate loaning money and completely agreed with Charlotte. You want blow all your money on trips, shoes or whatever rather then save and be smart, save up for it or get a job that will support it, that's your choice and its not anyone else's job or responsibility to bail you out for making dumb choices. My parents worked hard to build up a really nice savings and to be able to afford nice trips for us, My mom worked over time, through lunch and even had a second job, she moved up in company to earn the money for all that as did my dad.  Why should their hard work go to loaning money to a friend and husband who blew through all of their money? Not even just once but several times? Why should Charlotte, Miranda, Samantha or even Big loan Carrie anything? She was in her mid thirties, an adult who chose to blow all her money on shoes and other stuff. All three worked really hard to earn the money they had, spent what they could afford and were smart about their savings. At least until Charlotte quit her job which was stupid but she did have a husband who could afford it. While Carrie chose none of that. She writes one weekly column and that's it. She's not sending in her writing anywhere else or trying to get work somewhere else, or writing a book. But still spends way more then she earns. She gets herself into the mess herself. We don't see her get herself out of it, make any changes or learn any lessons. Instead we get to see her yell at Charlotte and badge her into loaning her money that we never see her pay back and continue on blowing her money just the same as before. 

[RealHousewife]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I agreed with Charlotte too because she's right it so often goes bad. Her reason and story made perfect sense to me. But of course Carrie doesn't care or want to care. My mom made the same mistake with one of her friends and this was after they'd been best friends for over five decades. She needed the money or she was going to lose her house so my mom loaned her the money twice. Never saw a dime, but noticed trips and other big purchases posted on her Facebook page, rarely heard from her again. When my mom was sick having health problems the last two years of her life still saw no money from her and only visited once. Rarely called. They had been best friends for decades since they were kid, she had been really helpful when my brother was sick when he was a baby, and my mom always felt bad for her because she was married to a male Carrie someone who always had to have the newest best cars, trucks, RVS, and trips and everything even though they didn't have money for it. That she was a nice person who married the wrong person, had to work three jobs sometimes because he was always blowing money.  Which yes she was a nice person, she did sometimes have to work three jobs but she never put her foot down or left him. Which was why my dad and I often disagreed that it was all her husband's fault.   If she felt bad then why didn't she pay my parents back? Why didn't ever leave him? She always seemed to be enjoying those trips and expensive cars. Or help out in other ways she could have really helped when my mom was sick. Also she lied that they were going to sell their expensive RV they never did and tried to lie it was neighbor's when my dad drove by their house and saw it because he just knew she lied. My mom was so hurt that she lied about selling it or more likely only said it to help convince my mom to loan her the money to make it look like either she'd be able to pay my mom back or was going to be more responsible. She burned the bridges with all her friends and most of her family by borrowing money and never paying it back. My dad finally told her off after my mom died. Its exactly why I hate loaning money and completely agreed with Charlotte. You want blow all your money on trips, shoes or whatever rather then save and be smart, save up for it or get a job that will support it, that's your choice and its not anyone else's job or responsibility to bail you out for making dumb choices. My parents worked hard to build up a really nice savings and to be able to afford nice trips for us, My mom worked over time, through lunch and even had a second job, she moved up in company to earn the money for all that as did my dad.  Why should their hard work go to loaning money to a friend and husband who blew through all of their money? Not even just once but several times? Why should Charlotte, Miranda, Samantha or even Big loan Carrie anything? She was in her mid thirties, an adult who chose to blow all her money on shoes and other stuff. All three worked really hard to earn the money they had, spent what they could afford and were smart about their savings. At least until Charlotte quit her job which was stupid but she did have a husband who could afford it. While Carrie chose none of that. She writes one weekly column and that's it. She's not sending in her writing anywhere else or trying to get work somewhere else, or writing a book. But still spends way more then she earns. She gets herself into the mess herself. We don't see her get herself out of it, make any changes or learn any lessons. Instead we get to see her yell at Charlotte and badge her into loaning her money that we never see her pay back and continue on blowing her money just the same as before. 

A thousand percent. I'm so sorry your mom went through all she did and the way her friend treated her. I agree with you and your dad that it wasn't all on the husband. There's no way I'd go along with that bs no matter what my SO said. It's amazing how many of us have friends like this. When I was broke and had no money to do things, I never asked my friends for a dime. I also worked a second job for awhile. I was fortunate to have parents who helped me out as far as housing and the basics, and I don't want to judge those who have no one but their friends to turn to and who maybe need help due to true struggle, not irresponsibility. Those are the friends I lent big bucks to-the ones without relatives who help. I knew they needed it, and the position they were in was not their fault-they lived modest lives, not spending like millionaires. I also knew they were honest, and I'd eventually get my money back. I've had work friends who I'm not close to (have never seen outside of work), friends who gamble, friends who quit jobs to pursue their acting dreams (which I also have but wouldn't dare to quit my day job) all ask me for money. I may be more generous at times if we're out and I know they're broke, but I refuse to lend out money I may not get back. My current job is low stress (lots of downtime for me to post here lol), but I still get my sleepy butt out of bed every morning, work full time, and there are lots of things I sacrifice in order to have all the money I do. People think I'm so nice and naive (I can be seen as a Charlotte) that they can constantly try to take advantage of me. But even though I often give more than I get, I'm not an idiot and have my limits. 

Edited July 13, 2019 by RealHousewife

[BlueMoon81]

On 7/12/2019 at 10:17 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Also Big was rich rich.  He was supposed to be very, very wealthy.  He had a freaking personal driver.  LOL.  He's not the guy taking Carrie out to MacDonalds and then expecting something from her.  LOL.  I doubt Carrie paid for a fucking thing in their dating history (okay except for that time she actually DID buy MacDonalds and then threw it at him.)

I also thought it was really disingenuous for Carrie to go to Big for "BUSINESS ADVICE" but really it was just a front to whine to Big about her problems, get him to offer to fix them, and then reject it for no reason.  Idiot, what kind of thing can Big tell you to make $30,000 in a week?   There with her stupid dress and her gloves, oh she is so aggravating.

Script:

Simple.
I'll tell you how to get the money.

Big offered me the money for my down payment. But I could never take it. Could I?
You couldn't.
He just gave you $30,000?
As a loan. I would pay him back. 

I bet it was Carrie who decided it was a loan.  I doubt Big would even remember or care for it back.

Carrie:  Last time I took the bus, it was like 75 cents.

Oh god she is so awful!!!!!!!  Too good to take the freaking bus!

That’s what made that episode soooooo frustrating and stupid. The whole drama with Charlotte not only made Carrie look entitled, irresponsible, selfish and jealous....it was also completely unnecessary. Big gave her the money for her apartment, simply because he was in a position to help her and he did. He had no smarmy ulterior motives, and wasn’t going to hold it over Carrie’s head or throw it back in her face—he wasn’t that type of guy. But because the show had spun the mythology of Big “toying with the emotions of poor Carrie”, they had to have Carrie rip up the check and Miranda act like Carrie had just received a loan from the Gambino crime family or something

The writers and producers (SJP chief among them) must’ve thought the audience would find Carrie’s financial recklessness endearing or relatable—when just the opposite happened

I also think the writers dropped the ball BIG TIME by never re-visiting that storyline....we never see if Carrie actually paid Charlotte back or not, or even had the intention to do so. Charlotte giving her that ring was a big emotional move in a positive direction for her (I love when Charlotte asks her “Will you take the ring??”...KD delivered that line brilliantly), and it would’ve been nice to get some actual closure on that storyline 

Edited July 17, 2019 by BlueMoon81

[cpcathy]

I think we were supposed to feel Carrie was right every time, like everything she did we were supposed to go, "Oh, that Carrie, she's so adorable!" But that was not the case, of course, evidenced by our rage here over many incidents on the show. I bet the writers and producers would be shocked to find out we hate Carrie and most of the things she does.

[blondiec0332]

15 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I think we were supposed to feel Carrie was right every time, like everything she did we were supposed to go, "Oh, that Carrie, she's so adorable!" But that was not the case, of course, evidenced by our rage here over many incidents on the show. I bet the writers and producers would be shocked to find out we hate Carrie and most of the things she does.

I absolutely believe they thought Carrie was the heroine and viewers were supposed to root for her and always be on her side.  I've said before I thought Carrie was the least interesting.  She didn't evolve at all from the start of the show to the last episode.  She didn't move to Paris because she really wanted to.  And I don't believe she really loved Petrovsky.  She saw her friends moving on and she didn't want to be left behind.  She gave up a column that women would have killed for to do what exactly?  Hold the hand of a self involved artist?  Before she left NYC she screamed at Big that they were over and then once in Paris and things go to shit with the Russian she sees Big and says OK I want you now.  She comes back to NYC and she what? Gets to go back to lunching with the girls and shoe shopping?  Her royalties from the book must have been pretty damn good.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, blondiec0332 said:

I absolutely believe they thought Carrie was the heroine and viewers were supposed to root for her and always be on her side.  I've said before I thought Carrie was the least interesting.  She didn't evolve at all from the start of the show to the last episode.  She didn't move to Paris because she really wanted to.  And I don't believe she really loved Petrovsky.  She saw her friends moving on and she didn't want to be left behind.  She gave up a column that women would have killed for to do what exactly?  Hold the hand of a self involved artist?  Before she left NYC she screamed at Big that they were over and then once in Paris and things go to shit with the Russian she sees Big and says OK I want you now.  She comes back to NYC and she what? Gets to go back to lunching with the girls and shoe shopping?  Her royalties from the book must have been pretty damn good.

Carrie was interesting to me in the first season and in the first episode. Then they destroyed all of that taking away anything that was interesting about her and making her more selfish, self-absorbed and horrible. The other three women became more interesting for me because we got to see them change over the seasons. Miranda, Samantha and Charlotte each were challenged by what they thought they wanted and what they really wanted and they learned from their mistakes. Carrie of course never was and never did. It always surprises me that we're suppose to root for her and be on her side given so many things she did when she never learns from anything she did or thinks she's done anything wrong and we get so many scenes of her being horrible. Stalking Big's ex-wife and his mother, trying to make the relationship go faster then it was, cheating on Aiden, harassing to take her back, insisting on remaining friends with Big and inviting him up to Aiden's, stalking Natasha and showing up at lunch and expecting Natasha to apologize to her, being upset that one woman was talking about her, blowing all her money on shoes, yelling at Charlotte when she didn't offer to loan Carrie any money, showing up at Miranda's with her bullshit bagels, it just goes on and on. She always had the center of attention and if she's not she'll turn the conversation back to her. Freaking out over Big buying a TV. Oh no, not that. If they had gone the way they had with the other three women then things would have been different. It really would have be nice to see Carrie grow and change over the series like Miranda, Samantha and Charlotte did. 

[RealHousewife]

I enjoyed Carrie despite the flaws, but my personal favorite was Charlotte. I loved that she was generally a sweet person. I can’t see her banging married men or cheating on someone, and when she did someone’s feelings (like Harry or Samantha), she genuinely felt bad. 

[BlueMoon81]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Carrie was interesting to me in the first season and in the first episode. Then they destroyed all of that taking away anything that was interesting about her and making her more selfish, self-absorbed and horrible. The other three women became more interesting for me because we got to see them change over the seasons. Miranda, Samantha and Charlotte each were challenged by what they thought they wanted and what they really wanted and they learned from their mistakes. Carrie of course never was and never did. It always surprises me that we're suppose to root for her and be on her side given so many things she did when she never learns from anything she did or thinks she's done anything wrong and we get so many scenes of her being horrible. Stalking Big's ex-wife and his mother, trying to make the relationship go faster then it was, cheating on Aiden, harassing to take her back, insisting on remaining friends with Big and inviting him up to Aiden's, stalking Natasha and showing up at lunch and expecting Natasha to apologize to her, being upset that one woman was talking about her, blowing all her money on shoes, yelling at Charlotte when she didn't offer to loan Carrie any money, showing up at Miranda's with her bullshit bagels, it just goes on and on. She always had the center of attention and if she's not she'll turn the conversation back to her. Freaking out over Big buying a TV. Oh no, not that. If they had gone the way they had with the other three women then things would have been different. It really would have be nice to see Carrie grow and change over the series like Miranda, Samantha and Charlotte did. 

Yup that’s exactly why Carrie NEVER rang true for me as a heroine, even when the show originally aired (and I was late high school/early college age), and even less now. Add to that the borderline unforgivable (in my opinion) betrayal of how she blabbed about Miranda’s plans to terminate her pregnancy, her incessant judgmental/catty jabs to Samantha, and her vomit-inducing view on the spectrum of sexuality (which is ironic being that she’s a SEX COLUMNIST)...and I truly don’t understand how the writers could ever think Carrie was heroine material. As you said, she never grew or evolved from the first episode to the last, and never learned from her mistakes. Perhaps if she had, she would’ve been a far more interesting character. I also think that if SJP hadn't forced her way into being an Exec Producer after S1, the character would’ve had more of a chance to evolve