Sex And The City - General Discussion

[WendyCR72]

This topic replaces the old Sex And The City forum which has been vaulted at the location below:

http://forums.previously.tv/forum/370-sex-and-the-city-v/

[BookWoman56]

If only she would in fact have ever shut up. Even once. There were of course numerous actions of Carrie's that I hated, but her incessant whinging about her love life, her insistence that every single conversation had to focus eventually on her, her inability to STFU and let other people discuss their own situations, and her attitude that came through so clearly that she was a special snowflake who deserved a lifestyle she couldn't actually afford and who couldn't believe that anybody would dare dislike her, up to and including the woman whose marital bed she usurped: those were the characteristics that made me want to reach through my tv screen and gag her.

Edited April 16, 2014 by BookWoman56

[Inquisitionist]

Caught some S2 episodes recently, and my god, did Chris Noth ever look hot, hot, hot.  It's a little difficult to remember, in light of how he looks now on The Good Wife.

[WendyCR72]

To be fair to Chris Noth, if his birth year on IMDB is right, he is going to be 60 (!) this year. Time catches up to everyone. Sigh.

[Inquisitionist]

Oh, I didn't mean to disparage Chris Noth (though I'm sure it sounded that way).  I'd just gotten accustomed to seeing his current self on TGW, and was kind of stunned when I saw his 15-years-ago self on SatC.

[WendyCR72]

Oh, Inquisitionist, I got what you meant! And I didn't mean to sound as if I was lecturing (I hate that tone can't be shown on the 'net!) So, no worries! And yeah, it can be jarring to see an actor from years ago versus now. (For example, Courteney Cox, still attractive on Friends; scary mask on Cougar Town!) So...the perils of aging in the public eye, I guess.

[BookWoman56]

Yes, I've been seeing Cynthia Nixon on Hannibal and either she has not aged well or they made her up deliberately to look a bit haggard. Nixon is the cast member I've seen far more of in other roles post-SATC, and her range has been extremely impressive. While the character she's been playing on Hannibal is also cool and analytical in the same way that Miranda could be, Nixon was very convincing on a episode of House as a very messed-up patient with Munchausen syndrome.

When she played Miranda, I've got to confess that I preferred Miranda version 1.0, before they decided to soften her up. I admired the Miranda who bluntly asked the group if they could talk about something besides boyfriends and sex, and who made snarky comments, much more than the Miranda who felt compelled to give her demented MIL a bath. Of course, one of my  pet peeves is when character growth for a female character consists of her learning to put everybody else's needs ahead of her own needs.

Think about it, if the roles had been reversed. If Miranda's father was the one who developed senile dementia and was wandering the streets, would Steve have given him a bath after chasing him down? I think not.

[ShellSeeker]

 

Think about it, if the roles had been reversed. If Miranda's father was the one who developed senile dementia and was wandering the streets, would Steve have given him a bath after chasing him down? I think not.

I think Steve would have done that, he was that kind of a guy. Big, not so much -- but he would have hired the most qualified person to do so, and paid them a fortune.

My biggest WTF moment with Carrie was when she hung around at Big and Natasha's apartment, after her clandestine romp with Big. There she was, having showered, parading around with wet hair, half dressed, poking through the refrigerator for a snack. OMG. WTF? Anyone else would have thrown their clothes on as soon as said romp was over, gotten the hell out of there, and skulked home doing the walk of shame. Not Carrie -- no, she decides to stick around for a post-coital nosh -- which then caused Natasha to fall down the stairs and break her tooth.

Then, in a later episode, when she's lunching with the girls and Natasha shows up and gives her a withering, scornful (and well-deserved) glare, all Carrie has to say to that is, "I can't believe anyone in New York hates me that much." Uh, her husband cheated on her. With you. In their bed. You ran like a coward and caused her to fall down the stairs and break her tooth. What did she expect -- that the 2 of them would giggle like girlfriends and braid each other's hair? OMG.

[WendyCR72]

Then, in a later episode, when she's lunching with the girls and Natasha shows up and gives her a withering, scornful (and well-deserved) glare, all Carrie has to say to that is, "I can't believe anyone in New York hates me that much." Uh, her husband cheated on her. With you. In their bed. You ran like a coward and caused her to fall down the stairs and break her tooth. What did she expect -- that the 2 of them would giggle like girlfriends and braid each other's hair? OMG.

Carrie and self awareness have never been bosom buddies, but yeah. That was just fucked up, even for Carrie.

Which is why I always picture Carrie and Big in a War of the Roses type of relationship if they are still together, the anger, misery, and resentment eating away at them...or mercifully divorced. After both cheated on the other.

Who says romance is dead?!

[Inquisitionist]

I admired the Miranda who bluntly asked the group if they could talk about something besides boyfriends and sex, and who made snarky comments.

Seconded!

[Shangrilala]

and who couldn't believe that anybody would dare dislike her, up to and including the woman whose marital bed she usurped:

This has always driven me nuts.  I kept waiting for one of her friends to say:  Carrie, it's not her fault that Big dumped you and left New York.  I kept waiting for her friends to say:  Carrie, you slept with her husband as a willing participant.  Multiple times.  There is nothing that will ever make that forgiveable in her eyes.  Your reasons for doing so are completely irrelevant to her because you slept with her husband.  You did it, you are responsible for your actions, accept that somebody hates you because YOU SLEPT WITH HER HUSBAND.

I'm actually surprised that they didn't have Miranda do that.  Or did they?  I remember her talking with her friends about it, but I can't remember anybody laying into her directly, except for Natasha at lunch.  Charlotte got mad at her for being the "other woman," but didn't say it bluntly like that.  And Samantha didn't judge.  But one of her friends needed to give her the smackdown. 

I actually hated the way the show treated Carrie's infidelity.  In the series, they tried to make Carrie the sympathetic character and Natasha the bad guy, when in reality I never found Carrie to be more unlikeable than during her affair with Big.  From what I could tell Natasha did nothing wrong other than being a little bland, liking beige furniture and not being the right match for Big.  And even putting Big and Carrie together, at the end of the series, doesn't make the affair more understandable or sympathetic.  And then in the movie, after she kisses Aiden, she gets a black diamond ring?  How does that work, exactly?

I don't hate the character of Carrie like some do. But this aspect of the character really bothered me. 

Think about it, if the roles had been reversed. If Miranda's father was the one who developed senile dementia and was wandering the streets, would Steve have given him a bath after chasing him down? I think not.

Actually, I think he would have. 

[MadRat]

 

In the series, they tried to make Carrie the sympathetic character and Natasha the bad guy, when in reality I never found Carrie to be more unlikeable than during her affair with Big.

The scene where Carrie stalks Natasha, ambushes her at lunch and then drinks her water while forcing her to listen to her apology is absolutely Carrie's worst moment for me. And it's made all the worse because I agree that it felt like the writers wanted me to be on Carrie's side. When Natasha says "I'm sorry, too" Carrie looks so relieved. What did she think Natasha was going to say? I love love love Natasha's speech to her. Not only because Carrie deserved to hear it, but I think Natasha deserved to say it. I like to imagine, after she calmed down, Natasha calling all her friends and telling them about it. 

This might seem weird, but my second least favorite Carrie moment is when Susan Sharon gives her that cashmere sweater and Carrie immediately asks if she can return it for the cash. So damn rude!

Edited April 18, 2014 by MadRat

[Bella]

I'm so glad to read all the Carrie-hate (or disdain, at least). I never "got" her, and I certainly had plenty of my own moments when I disliked her.

In addition to her self-centeredness with Natasha, the whole relationship with Aidan was a wreck, and I didn't understand why the writers ever thought anyone would buy it as credible. Setting aside the fact that Carrie was annoying on a good day, they were fundamentally incompatible. And of course there she is as usual, taking, taking, taking, and not understanding why anyone wouldn't love her forever and - gasp! - move on.

But don't get me started.

[MadRat]

I think Steve said it best in the episode with Nina Katz (the Face Girl) when Carrie asked how Aiden felt about her and he said, "Aww, man, you're not gonna try and get back together with him, are you?" Ha! Right there with ya, Steve!

[WendyCR72]

And Carrie had the gall to be offended when she answered, "No, but now I know how you feel about it!" or whatever the hell she said. What, did she expect Steve to tell her how Aidan still pined for her ass?

Wait...she probably was.

[ShellSeeker]

The scene where Carrie stalks Natasha, ambushes her at lunch and then drinks her water while forcing her to listen to her apology is absolutely Carrie's worst moment for me. And it's made all the worse because I agree that it felt like the writers wanted me to be on Carrie's side. When Natasha says "I'm sorry, too" Carrie looks so relieved. What did she think Natasha was going to say? I love love love Natasha's speech to her. Not only because Carrie deserved to hear it, but I think Natasha deserved to say it. I like to imagine, after she calmed down, Natasha calling all her friends and telling them about it. 

Oh yes, so much word to this. That was by far one of the most ridiculous scenes of the entire series, and you're right -- it was presented as though we were supposed to be on Carrie's side, and think that Natasha was the huge bitch. Yeah, where did Natasha get off, being angry at Carrie for sleeping with her husband? Didn't she know that Carrie is fabulous and is never, ever wrong?

 

Another unfavorite Carrie moment is when she chose to tell Aidan she'd been cheating on him 2 minutes before Charlotte married Trey. Really? You couldn't keep your trap shut for one more hour and not crap your drama all over your friend's wedding? 

Edited April 23, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[Scarlett45]

Hi everyone. I am a TWOP refugee (same screen name) and I have enjoyed talking with you all about the show.

I come to the board today because I'm not allowed to tell anyone in my "real life" yet and I am bursting. My BFF (since we were 15 so childhood relationship, I'm a pseudo only child and she is an only child so you can imagine our dynamic) told me last night that she's pregnant and she's more likely than not having the baby (which means she's having the baby duh). It's FAR from an ideal situation, the father is in a bitter custody battle with his soon to be ex-wife for their two kids (he has filed for divorce and they have been in proceedings almost a year) as well as my BFF not being a stable place in her own career etc. I expressed my feelings about the situation, it not being an ideal time etc but said that this was her decision and my job is to be her BFF and I always do my job.

I had a totally SATC moment, in season 4 when Charlotte comes over with flowers even after she was very upset with Miranda because she is trying so hard to conceive (I am not trying to conceive or anything like that!) and when Miranda says to her "I didn't go through with it, I'm having the baby." And Charlotte starts to cry "we are having a baby." I felt like that 100% yesterday!! We are having a baby guys!!!!!!! We are having a baby! New life! More family! If this little one comes on Halloween and ruins my night out there will be hell to pay. Lol.

[Bella]

See, that's one of the things I like about the show, it does touch on some situations that we experience in real life. I hope your friend's situation improves, Scarlett.

Here's a question for everyone: A number of shows are doing sort of formalized rewatches. They pick a season, set up a schedule, watch, and discuss.

Would we be interested in doing that for SaTC? I could set it up. My preference would be to do it after the May sweeps end and the TWOP forums shut down. That way we would have fewer current shows competing with our rewatch schedule, and we wouldn't have late-movers from TWOP coming in during the middle of it.

Thoughts?

[Scarlett45]

See, that's one of the things I like about the show, it does touch on some situations that we experience in real life. I hope your friend's situation improves, Scarlett.

Here's a question for everyone: A number of shows are doing sort of formalized rewatches. They pick a season, set up a schedule, watch, and discuss.

Would we be interested in doing that for SaTC? I could set it up. My preference would be to do it after the May sweeps end and the TWOP forums shut down. That way we would have fewer current shows competing with our rewatch schedule, and we wouldn't have late-movers from TWOP coming in during the middle of it.

Thoughts?

Thank you for your kind words! It's sad that friend was in an abusive unhealthy relationship with another guy for YEARS and I am somewhat relieved- despite the bad situation I no longer fear for her safety or anything like that with the father (the new guy).

I would be up for a rewatch this summer! The TWOP forums shut down on my BFFs bday May 31. I so feel like Samantha guys, everyone is having babies and I'm the Childfree career woman, although I could never have as much sex as Samantha had, my life is very tame in that aspect.

[Inquisitionist]

I can only rewatch what HBO makes available through Comcast on Demand.  That's currently S1 and S2, but I'm not sure for how long.  (Unless you know of a free online site.)

[Scarlett45]

I can only rewatch what HBO makes available through Comcast on Demand. That's currently S1 and S2, but I'm not sure for how long. (Unless you know of a free online site.)

I believe hbo go has all the seasons....

[BookWoman56]

 

Think about it, if the roles had been reversed. If Miranda's father was the one who developed senile dementia and was wandering the streets, would Steve have given him a bath after chasing him down? I think not.

 

Actually, I think he would have.

 

I based my assessment of Steve's willingness to do that sort of thing on the way he "took care" of the dog he got. That is, bring home a dog, play with it, and then expect Miranda to actually do the grunt work in taking care of it. However, my real point, which I didn't make clear, wasn't so much as to whether it would fit Steve's character to do such a thing, but that the writers would never have had him do it. First and foremost, character "growth" in a male character rarely seems to be demonstrated by having them do things for other people; it's much more common to see them stand up for themselves, make career moves, or possibly learn to get past their commitment phobia, etc. So, for me, one of the ironies of the show was that while it initially touted itself as a show in which female characters were proud of their sexuality, it still conformed to some very traditional gender stereotypes, among which was one I hated from the last couple of seasons, that if you are a female over 40 and unattached, you're desperate and your life is meaningless. Career success and good friends? Those signify nothing if you don't have a man in  your life.

Carrie did so many things over the course of the show that made me dislike her, that it's sometimes hard to choose which specific one was the worst. But two of them were the previously mentioned episode in which she and Big have sex in Big's home, and then Carrie flits around the place afterwards, invading Natasha's privacy, and still being there when Natasha comes back. It's only after she's caught cheating that she throws a hissy fit with Big, which to me says she's not sorry for cheating; she's just sorry she got caught. Tied in with that is telling Aidan about it just prior to Charlotte's wedding. How self-centered do you have to be to pull that sort of stunt right before one of your BFFs is getting married?

The other one that induces rage is her laying into Charlotte about not offering to bail her out of her own financial mess, when she and Aidan have broken up for the second time and she has to buy her apartment back from Aidan or move. It's great that someone has two friends who are willing to volunteer to help with a down payment, even if their doing so makes me wonder when they got their lobotomies. But Charlotte was in no way obligated to offer Carrie money, and maybe it's just me, but if a so-called friend shows up uninvited on my doorstep and throws a fit because I didn't offer a significant amount of money to someone with the financial sensibilities of a five-year-old, that person would no longer be considered a friend. After that point, I could no longer suspend my disbelief, especially when Charlotte caves and gives her the engagement ring. I really could not see why Charlotte would continue to be friends with her, after being treated like her responsibility as Carrie's friend was to be an ATM for someone stupid enough to think that 100 pairs of shoes @$400 each meant she'd spent $4000 on shoes, and entitled enough to believe that even if she couldn't afford her apartment, she shouldn't have to give it up because she was just that fabulous.

[ShellSeeker]

Well, I could actually see how the realization that she spent $40,000 on shoes over the years would be so shocking that she wouldn't even really consider it. $4000 is a much more reasonable number. Carrie was not a numbers type, so I could see how Miranda had to be the one to point that out to her. This, in and of itself, didn't really bother me.

 

What did bother me is that after Charlotte gave her the ring (and I feel about that the way you do, BookWoman56) we didn't really see Carrie change her spending habits at all. And it wouldn't have even taken that much, show-wise. Maybe once or twice having Carrie pass on lunch or dinner, saying she'd already spent her allotted weekly amount on meals out. Or showing her making a payment or 2 to Charlotte for God's sake. But no, there she was, spending like she always had, as if she didn't have a care in the world, after very nearly losing her apartment because of how irresponsible she'd been. I get that the show was about escapism, so dull, humdrum things like being fiscally prudent took a back seat. But it still drove me nuts.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[lucindabelle]

(Small voice) I like Carrie.

I did think much of the stuff with Aidan was silly. And her expectations of. Natasha were self centered. But Big married Natasha on the rebound and Natasha wasn't very real to Carrie, that doesn't excuse it but I can relate to her.

If shoes are 600-800 and she buys one or two pairs a year for 15 years sure, it would add up.

I don't know. I don't always approve of her. But I still like her.

[Inquisitionist]

Well, I could actually see how the realization that she spent $40,000 on shoes over the years would be so shocking that she wouldn't even really consider it. $4000 is a much more reasonable number.

As I recall the scene, when confronted with these two numbers:

• 100 pairs of shoes
• $400 per pair

Carrie initially concluded that she had spent $4,000 on shoes.  And this from the woman who had the temerity to call Natasha an idiot because she had mistaken there/their in a thank you note -- a note that she went to the bother of hand-writing, by the way.

that doesn't excuse it but I can relate to her

I related to (or at least understood) Carrie's fling with Big, at least initially.  Where she lost me is when she continued to see him after Charlottle pointed out (and Carrie agreed) how Carrie would hate someone doing to Charlotte what Carrie was doing to Natasha.  Top that off with sex in Big's marital bed and lolling around afterwords -- there are no words.

[ShellSeeker]

As I recall the scene, when confronted with these two numbers:

• 100 pairs of shoes
• $400 per pair

Carrie initially concluded that she had spent $4,000 on shoes.  And this from the woman who had the temerity to call Natasha an idiot because she had mistaken there/their in a thank you note -- a note that she went to the bother of hand-writing, by the way.

Well, I am an IT geek with an accounting degree, so yeah, that math would have been a no-brainer for me. But not for everyone. My sister is a graphic designer, and works in advertising. She told me once about how she and some co-workers were working on a store display, and had some sort of platform-thing that was 75 inches long, and they needed to display 3 products on it. They wanted to be absolutely sure that each product got the same amount of space, so they all dug around for a calculator, finally found one, and punched in 75/3. And when they saw it was 25, they all looked at each other and said, "Oh. Right," and had a good laugh about creative people trying to do math. That's what I meant by Carrie not being a numbers person. Some people can just do that math in their heads with no problem, but others need to think about it for a minute, like Carrie did when Miranda corrected her. 

 

lucindabelle, I liked Carrie much more in the early seasons, but then she just got to be too much, in every way. I really love a good dumb pun, but in the later seasons every other thing she said was some sort of pun. It got old. She started out as having a quirky, off-beat fashion sense, which was fun, but then morphed into wearing ridiculous getups like that weird Catholic schoolgirl type outfit she had on in the episode where she and Aidan were fighting about Miranda not telling Steve she was pregnant. I started thinking "WTF?!" instead of, "That's a cute look, too bad I could never pull it off." She would ponder random thoughts that popped into her head, and then later every column was, "I couldn't help but wonder..." I couldn't help but wonder if her readers ever got sick of her doing the same thing over and over again in each column. Every aspect of her personality was amplified, and she became much less relatable to me.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[lucindabelle]

 

She would ponder random thoughts that popped into her head, and then later every column was, "I couldn't help but wonder..."

Queasy-Bo, good point. That was old. And the get-ups did get silly. Still, I just kinda ... liked her. Never got her attraction to the Russian though.

[Inquisitionist]

Well, I am an IT geek with an accounting degree, so yeah, that math would have been a no-brainer for me. But not for everyone.

I get that.  Similarly, I know many very smart, math-oriented people who mistake their/there, as Natasha did.  Yet Carrie felt smugly superior because of that.  I'm just sayin', glass houses and all... :-)

[TVFan17]

Hi, all!

I couldn't get here to comment on some of the previous posts about Carrie's antics because I was switching to a new computer and getting that set up. 

In the past (on TWoP) I have mentioned some of the things that Carrie did that drove me up the wall.  In fact, when I ponder them -- along with all of the things you guys mentioned above -- I have to laugh.  I wonder how it is that this is one of my favorite TV shows... when the main character bothered me to no end.   When I realize that Carrie annoyed me throughout most of the series and in the 2 movies, and yet I still think she was somehow likeable in the 'big picture' (no pun intended), it amazes me.

Some of my "favorite" irksome, cringe-worthy Carrie moments from SATC include, but are not limited to (in no particular order):

1.  How she handled the whole Natasha mess (which was covered earlier in this thread);

2.  Carrie asking Aidan "Well, what about the wedding" after just dropping the Big bombshell on him, clearly expecting that Aidan would or should be sticking around to celebrate her friend's marriage;

3.  Carrie deciding "I think I want him back" after seeing Aidan at the party for the bar, as if it was her decision to make...as if she could just decide such a thing like she would decide what to have for lunch that day;

4.  Carrie showing up at Aleks' apartment with her 3 tipsy friends in tow -- even after Aleks told her he was busy with his work and could not see her -- and then getting offended because he was cold to them;

5.  Carrie saying (while blathering on about her botched relationship with Aidan) to Berger, "...[After we'd] sufficiently hurt each other enough..."  Um...excuse me, who got hurt in the Aidan relationship, exactly?  Who did most of the hurting?;

6.  Carrie popping up at Big's apartment unannounced and uninvited, climbing on him and then getting mad because he was in the middle of watching a game and wouldn't have sex with her;

7.  Carrie showing up to "meet" Big's mother, when he clearly was not ready for that;

8.  Carrie getting pouty and mopey because Big wouldn't tell her she was The One (the person he would want to spend his entire life with) right before they were about to go on their very first trip together and presumably hadn't been dating all that long;

9.  Any of the occasions on which Carrie made a loud scene, be it in a crowded restaurant or on the street, and

10.   Carrie's annoying squealing and overall obnoxious behavior when visiting Aidan's cabin for the first time.  We get it.  You're a city girl.  You aren't used to the country.  Squirrels freak you out.  How about you stop acting like you're 6 years old and try to actually adapt for the sake of this guy that you decided you wanted back in your life so badly after you cheated on him and lied to him?

Anyway, those are just some of the shining Carrie moments for me.  If I kept at it I could probably list dozens more.  Lol. I always felt like the writers (MPK and whoever else) wanted us to side with Carrie on most things relating to people outside of her inner circle of friends.  I always felt like we were supposed to think that Big was in the wrong every single time;  Aleks was in the wrong every single time;  Aidan was being a jerk for pushing Carrie to get married (after she insisted that he forgive her and pushed him to take her back), etc.  Truth be told, Carrie did a lot of things that created a lot of unnecessary drama -- and I blame her for many of the issues that came up with her men (even though the men did jerky things too).  I think that on the rare occasions when Miranda or Charlotte actually took Carrie to task for her behavior, they were totally right on the money.

Edited April 21, 2014 by Sherry67

[izabella]

When she played Miranda, I've got to confess that I preferred Miranda version 1.0, before they decided to soften her up. I admired the Miranda who bluntly asked the group if they could talk about something besides boyfriends and sex, and who made snarky comments, much more than the Miranda who felt compelled to give her demented MIL a bath.

I was always bothered that SATC became a show about women who were desperate for a man, every single one of them.  Even Samantha had her moments where she was desolate because she had no man in her life, whether it be to fuck or to take care of her when she was sick.

I get that the show is called SEX and the City, thus men!  However, the lengths they would go to for men, the constant man-talk, and just the never-ending hunt for men really turned me off.  These were not empowered women who enjoyed men; they seemed like hungry women who thought of nothing other than getting men.  Well, and shoes.

[MadRat]

 

Another unfavorite Carrie moment is when she chose to tell Aidan she'd been cheating on him 2 minutes before Charlotte married Trey. Really? You couldn't keep your trap shut for one more hour and not crap your drama all over your friend's wedding? 

 

But when could any of them keep their traps shut? Another moment I haaaaaaate is when Charlotte is upset because she got her period and Miranda and Carrie can't stop mugging at each other about Miranda's pregnancy. I don't even think they were trying to hide it. At least when Samantha revealed her cancer on Miranda's wedding day she acknowledged that she had to say it so she wouldn't blurt it out in the middle of the ceremony.

 

And just to move the hate from Carrie for a minute, Miranda really bugged me in that pregnancy episode. Especially now that I've dealt with my own fertility issues, I think if a friend basically said, "Look sucks for you but I really need you get support the abortion of my oops baby" I'd have had a really hard staying friends. And why did Samantha have to ask right in front of Charlotte what Miranda was going to do? I felt like they were all really insensitive and should've known better. I thought it was very classy of Charlotte to show up with the flowers. I couldn't have done it.

 

We are having a baby! New life! More family! 

 

Congrats to your friend! As much as I hate everyone's behavior in that episode, I do love the "We're having a baby" moment in the end.

 

Would we be interested in doing that for SaTC?

 

Me me me! I've been thinking of doing a rewatch anyway and jotting down my thoughts as I go (because I get more picky about it with every rewatch.) I was going to do it in my personal blog but I don't think a single one of my friends is a fan of the show.

[Scarlett45]

MadRat I don't think the girls were rude to Charlotte then (at the table when Samantha asked Miranda). Samantha wasn't telling Miranda to do anything she was asking a valid question. Had they excluded Charlotte and tipped toed around her I would have been annoyed. It should be Charlotte's choice to give her opinion, opt out of the convo etc, as they were all friends and shared these things with each other.

NOR do I think Charlotte was rude for saying she wasn't going to sit there and talk about it because of her own issues which I think the girls respected. I don't mean to make light of anyone's struggles with infertility, but that doesn't mean that others have to choose to procreate because their friends are having a hard time conceiving. I think the true friendship of the girls showed through then. You may disagree with your friends but you stand by them and trust them 100%.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Scarlett45

[MadRat]

Well, it would certainly hurt my feelings. Especially considering Charlotte made it clear she needed space from the conversation and Miranda harassed her about not returning her calls.

 

To a lesser degree, it's like when Miranda said she couldn't find time to shower, much less get a hair cut and Samantha started bragging about the fancy-shmancy hair appointment she had coming up. Miranda and Samantha are free to have kids and get haircuts even when their friends can't but I think it's insensitive to rub it in the other person's face.

[Bella]

I never did figure out how Samantha related to Miranda and Charlotte. If Carrie hadn't been there, would she even be friends with them?

[Scarlett45]

I never did figure out how Samantha related to Miranda and Charlotte. If Carrie hadn't been there, would she even be friends with them?

I think Samantha and Miranda had a good chemistry and would've been friends without Carrie. I think that with Charlotte, Samantha did enjoy her company even though their lifestyles are different. For a lot of people (like me) friends are family, you choose to be bound together through thick and thin and support each other even if you're different.

[ShellSeeker]

 

 

And just to move the hate from Carrie for a minute, Miranda really bugged me in that pregnancy episode. Especially now that I've dealt with my own fertility issues, I think if a friend basically said, "Look sucks for you but I really need you get support the abortion of my oops baby" I'd have had a really hard staying friends. And why did Samantha have to ask right in front of Charlotte what Miranda was going to do? I felt like they were all really insensitive and should've known better. I thought it was very classy of Charlotte to show up with the flowers. I couldn't have done it.

 

 

I think, though, that until you've dealt with fertility issues, you have no idea how painful it is. I had trouble getting pregnant, and when I turned 40, I figured the window had closed. Then got the shock of my life about 6 months later, and now I have a 5 year old daughter. But before that, I really didn't comprehend how devastating it is to want to get pregnant and have it not happen, month after month. And I don't even think you could call what I dealt with fertility issues -- it just took way longer than I wanted it to. So I could see how the other 3 women, none of them having any burning desire to have a child, would not really be able to empathize with just how heartbreaking the whole ordeal can be.

 

And I would totally be up for a re-watch this summer!

Edited April 24, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[Scarlett45]

I think, though, that until you've dealt with fertility issues, you have no idea how painful it is. I had trouble getting pregnant, and when I turned 40, I figured the window had closed. Then got the shock of my life about 6 months later, and now I have a 5 year old daughter. But before that, I really didn't comprehend how devastating it is to want to get pregnant and have it not happen, month after month. And I don't even think you could call what I dealt with fertility issues -- it just took way longer than I wanted it to. So I could see how the other 3 women, none of them having any burning desire to have a child, would not really be able to empathize with just how heartbreaking the whole ordeal can be.

And I would totally be up for a re-watch this summer!

Also at that point (the brunch) Charlotte wasn't having "fertility issues" she just hadn't gotten pregnant yet while having unprotected sex for a few months. It was afterwards when they ran into each other on the street that Charlotte had heard from the dr regarding her attempts to conceive.

For me at the end of the day I knew Charlotte and Miranda loved each other no matter what each of them was going through. Hence how almost two years later Charlotte got dressed and went to Brady's bday party after miscarriage. To me that would be emotionally harder that discussing a POSSIBLE abortion.

What are some of the best "friendship moments" of the series?

I liked the end of season 3 when they had the BBQ on Samantha's roof. I liked the baby shower scene in season 1 when Charlotte was upset that her baby name was stolen and Samantha said "you BITCH!!!" I loved that.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Scarlett45

[ShellSeeker]

That's true, but when you decide you want to get pregnant, you want it to happen immediately. If you're over about 35, you freak yourself out even more over it, because you have that little voice in your head whispering, "Tick, tick, tick." So every month it doesn't happen is very discouraging, and it's all you can think about. I thought Kristin Davis did a very good job portraying that. When I was trying to get pregnant, my nephew and his girlfriend announced that they were expecting their second child. They are both addicts, and lost custody of their first child because they were unable to take care of him. I was so resentful about that. All I could focus on was how unfair it was -- us, trying so hard and nothing happening, and the 2 of them, expecting again, without even trying. The more important fact that this poor baby would quite possibly never have a shot in life was lost on me.

 

 

What are some of the best "friendship moments" of the series?

I liked the end of season 3 when they had the BBQ on Samantha's roof. I liked the baby shower scene in season 1 when Charlotte was upset that her baby name was stolen and Samantha said "you BITCH!!!" I loved that.

 

I loved both of those scenes, particularly the baby shower. Even though it was early in the series, I thought it was a great demonstration of how the 4 women, though very different, were close friends and always there for each other.

 

I loved the scene at the end of "My Motherboard, Myself" at Miranda's mother's funeral, when Carrie steps out into the aisle to walk with her. It makes me tear up every time, especially when she looks up and sees Steve and Aidan there too. Yes, Carrie was incredibly self-absorbed and unaware much of the time, but she did usually come through when it counted.

[Bella]

I loved the scene at the end of "My Motherboard, Myself" at Miranda's mother's funeral, when Carrie steps out into the aisle to walk with her. It makes me tear up every time, especially when she looks up and sees Steve and Aidan there too. Yes, Carrie was incredibly self-absorbed and unaware much of the time, but she did usually come through when it counted.

 

That was a great scene. It did show Carrie come out of her self-absorption and be a real friend. And wasn't this the same point at which Samantha was avoiding Miranda but showed up at the funeral and mouthed "I'm sorry"? or am I confusing that with something else.

 

Still, my all-time favorite scene was when Charlotte apologized to Harry at the synagogue. 

[lucindabelle]

And then Harry proposed. I burst into tears during that scene,

And yes, samantha did moth I'm sorry at Miranda. That was also the episode where Miranda was shopping for a bra and the bra lady became a very surrogate mother... Very touching, good writing.

[LemonSoda]

I'm up for a re-viewing of the Series. I missed out on discussing the earlier seasons. I didn't start watching until season 4. Then before 5 came out, I binge watched the previous seasons so I could be caught up.

I too burst in to tears at Harry's proposal. The scene with Miranda and the bra lady made me cry because it hit home. My Mother had died a few months before. The writing pisses me off sometimes though. They'd have deep, poignant moments like that, then the next Carrie screeching or acting like a five year old.

[27bored]

21bored in this bitch! Well, you know, with my age updated and whatnot.

 

They have S4 on OnDemand and I've been making my way through the episodes. My Motherboard, My Self is the hardest episode of the season (nee the series) to watch because it is emotional.

 

I just watched Time and Punishment with Carrie repeating the "you haaaaf to forgive me" line/incantation to Aiden. I always liked Aiden so I didn't mind him being back on the show, and I didn't much mind him getting back with Carrie. I could see that happening. When Aiden said he hates that Big calls her and he doesn't want her to ever talk to him again, and she was like, "I can't do that....he's in my life". Uh, am I the only one who says to the screen, "why, bitch?" Because see, this would be what Miranda was talking about when they had that fight towards the end of S3. The only time Carrie wanted a guy was when she figured he didn't want her. Big was emotionally unavailable, so she pined away at him and ruined her relationship both times with Aiden because she held out hope he would give her some meager sign of approval. She kept him around and basically forced Aiden to "deal" with it because not to would mean he's still punishing her for cheating on him.

 

She only obsessed about Aiden when she decided she wanted him back and she was all with the bullshit bagels and the late-night pebble throwing and tossing her cigarettes away to show she was a different person. It took Big years to come around, which is why she always went back.

 

And by the way...okay, I've never been a huge fan of Big, but I've always thought a lot of his hang-ups were to avoid honestly assessing Carrie's, because this show wasn't above making up BS "issues" for the men to make the women not seem neurotic, whorish, or self-centered. I never really bought Big's chilly disposition as being him not wanting to get close to Carrie; I thought he was just the type of guy who did things in his way and in his own time. Carrie, for whatever reason, had a hard time respecting that and felt it Meant Something every time he didn't seem to move the relationship along when she wanted him to. Think about all their break-ups. Each one of them was for some bullshit non-reason. The first time was because Carrie felt hurt that Big didn't introduce her to his mother, so she made Miranda join her in spying on them. The second time was because Big said he might (emphasis on might) have to move to Paris for a few months for work, and she said she wasn't even a factor in his decision-making process. The third time was after she got caught in Big's apartment by Natasha. Each time they broke up: a) it was because she decided for both of them that he was being emotionally vacant, and b) she initiated it. I would dare say, outside the cheating thing, they never had a good reason to break up. I don't think Big was worth all the torture she put herself through -- his charm, wit, and sexiness always came across as slick smarminess and, for the most part, he did seem more fun when Carrie seemed interested in a no-pressure, no-expectation relationship -- but she seemed to go for those types of guys, so Big was in her wheelhouse.

[braziliangirl]

27bored:

 

I thought he was just the type of guy who did things in his way and in his own time. Carrie, for whatever reason, had a hard time respecting that and felt it

I kind of agree. I think Carrie always wanted more with Big. She wanted him to be madly in love with her or something and he wasn't, or at least didn't show how he felt the way she wanted him to. I'm ok with Big but I hated that they ended up together. For me it was totally unbelievable mainly because they were too different AND too selfish to buy them in a good relationship. And I always felt Big was curious about Carrie and sort of challenged by her but not really that much in love with her.

But I understand her side about the France trip because he did in such a nonchalant way. Like it didn't even matter that they would be apart. I think the way he said it was the last drop. And maybe it's me but I would've hated it if my boyfriend, the guy I loved, was going to be apart from me for months and acted like he didn't care. Or wouldn't make plans with me because he didn't want the responsability of promising something for the future, I think Carrie was just tired of feeling insecure all the time and that's for me a good reason to break up.

I love Aidan but rewatching the series I'm glad that they didn't end up together. I didn't realize the first time I watched how disfunctional they were. I think Carrie wanted to love him, especially when he came back looking that good and sort of glamorous, but never really did. Like something was always missing.

I wish they ended the series with her alone, happy and fabulous. Or on a great first date, full of possibilities.

Edited June 3, 2014 by braziliangirl

[ShellSeeker]

Hi, 27bored! So glad to see you here, your posts on TWOP always cracked me up. I was LadySadie there. New site, new name.

 

When Aiden said he hates that Big calls her and he doesn't want her to ever talk to him again, and she was like, "I can't do that....he's in my life". Uh, am I the only one who says to the screen, "why, bitch?" 

 

Nope, you're not. That was classic Carrie though - complete self-absorption and unawareness of anything other than herself and her own feelings. She wanted to stay in touch with Big, therefore, Aidan should have been OK with it, and if he wasn't, well, that was his fault. End of story.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[andromeda331]

That was classic Carrie though - complete self-absorption and unawareness of anything other than herself and her own feelings.

 

 

Yep, that's Carrie. Heaven for bid she considers someone else's feelings or you know learn something. It cracks me up how she thinks she's such an expert with men but doesn't see the many things she does that would make a man run away from her fast. Like spying on her boyfriend and his mother. Most men would dump her and possibly get a restraining order, same with the way she went after Aidan after she decided she wanted him back.  And of course all the drama. It never once seems to occur to her that Big could be toying with her, since she does drop everything and run to him. Did it ever occur to her he comes and goes as he wants because she always comes running when he calls? 

[Bella]

There was a small molecule of something that would have made some of this - certainly not all - back-and-forth with Big plausible. And that was the fact that they had the basis of a friendship. I'd catch glimpses of it now and then. Had the writers brought the friendship forward more and pushed back some of the drah-ma, I would have followed the Carrie/Big relationship more happily and might have bought into the storyline more readily.

 

It was almost like a half-hour-really-22-minute weekly reality TV show in which certain people are filmed for a week or more, and TPTB select what, out of all those many hours, to show us in a small amount of time. I'm convinced that in most cases we could get 2 or 3 entirely different shows in which the people - real people! - are unrecognizable as those in the other shows. Given that this show spanned larger timeframes and wasn't tied to real relationships, they could have sold us on a Carrie/Big friendship that bridged their other relationships and made us long for the two of them to finally get together. Instead, we got a hysterical spoiled brat and Mr. Entitlement.

 

Each of the other women had relationships with more dimension, so it wasn't beyond the capabilities of the writers to do this.

[CleoCaesar]

I never really bought Big's chilly disposition as being him not wanting to get close to Carrie; I thought he was just the type of guy who did things in his way and in his own time. Carrie, for whatever reason, had a hard time respecting that and felt it Meant Something every time he didn't seem to move the relationship along when she wanted him to. Think about all their break-ups. Each one of them was for some bullshit non-reason. The first time was because Carrie felt hurt that Big didn't introduce her to his mother, so she made Miranda join her in spying on them. The second time was because Big said he might (emphasis on might) have to move to Paris for a few months for work, and she said she wasn't even a factor in his decision-making process. The third time was after she got caught in Big's apartment by Natasha. Each time they broke up: a) it was because she decided for both of them that he was being emotionally vacant, and b) she initiated it. I

 

Exactly. The mythology of the show has Big as this emotionally unavailable creep who toys with poor Carrie's emotions, but, frankly, their season 1 relationship was fairly ridiculous. Carrie acted like a straight-up lunatic - stalking his ex, his mother, throwing fits (and hamburgers), and generally being clingy, needy, unreasonable and neurotic. Carrie pushed too hard for too much too soon. Like the Paris thing - what did she want? For him to decline the assignment? For him to ask her to come along after (what I recall) was only a few months of dating? He brought it up nonchalantly because that's his communication style. Frankly I'm surprised he didn't dump her drama-queen ass sooner.

[TVFan17]

Hi, 27bored! So glad to see you here, your posts on TWOP always cracked me up. I was LadySadie there. New site, new name.

 

 

Nope, you're not. That was classic Carrie though - complete self-absorption and unawareness of anything other than herself and her own feelings. She wanted to stay in touch with Big, therefore, Aidan should have been OK with it, and if he wasn't, well, that was his fault. End of story.

I agree with you and 27bored!

 

The whole second go-round with Carrie and Aidan annoyed me -- and I liked Aidan as a character and thought he was a good guy -- because it began when Carrie just decided that she wanted Aidan back like she would decide what kind of sandwich she wanted to eat that day.  She was the one who cheated on him in Round 1, and hurt him terribly, and he walked away from her because he said he knew he wouldn't be able to get past it (I'm paraphrasing, but that was the gist of it).  And yet, she somehow felt she was given license to insinuate herself into his life and get him back because she happened to see him at the bar.

 

Then -- after Carrie whined and pleaded and annoyed Aidan into taking her back -- she had the nerve to tell him that Big was part of her life, and she couldn't stop communicating with him??????  Oh, my blood boils when I think of that scene.  The bitch told Aidan how she thought about him holding her, how there was still something between them, nagged him to take her back when she decided she wanted him again...and then couldn't agree to kick Big out of her life?  What kind of deranged lunatic was she?

 

Rule #1 in the imaginary Guidebook to Winning Back an Ex on Whom You Cheated should be to cease all contact and communication with the person you cheated on your ex with!

 

That whole Aidan, Part 2 plotline is also one of the reasons I cringed in horror when Carrie was blathering away at Berger in the Hamptons about how her relationship with Aidan ended after they had sufficiently hurt each other enough (or something to that effect).  I wanted to hurl something at my TV when Carrie said that -- "sufficiently hurt each other..."??????  In what way did Aidan hurt you, Carrie?  Was it when he dared to reject you on the steps of his apartment after you tried to worm your way inside?  Or was it when he dared to spend time with the female bartender because he still -- quite understandably -- didn't trust your shady connection to Big?   I was not a fan of Berger for the most part, but he should have run far, far away after hearing Carrie babble about how she and Aidan "hurt each other."

 

The funny thing is -- and I said this over on TWoP -- I still think that MPK and the writers always wanted us to side with Carrie and feel like she was usually right -- just a lovable, witty fashionista who made a few minor mistakes in her choice of men, and the guys on the show were the ones who were always at fault.  What actually ended up happening was that Carrie came off looking like a clingy, self-absorbed, needy, insecure, sometimes delusional nitwit for much of the series.  I think that all of the men on the show did some jerky things at times, or handled things badly at times, but there were many other occasions when I thought that Big, Aidan, Berger and even Aleks should have run screaming into the night, never to return.

[Bella]

 

Rule #1 in the imaginary Guidebook to Winning Back an Ex on Whom You Cheated should be to cease all contact and communication with the person you cheated on your ex with!

 

You are going to write this book, aren't you? It's a chick lit best-seller concept.

[TVFan17]

You are going to write this book, aren't you? It's a chick lit best-seller concept.

 

If I thought I knew what I was talking about, or had any relevant well to tap, I just might!  Luckily, I've never cheated on anyone.  Someone should certainly write it, though -- maybe it has been written, but under some other title? 

 

In any case, Carrie was ridiculous for not wanting to disentangle herself from the person at the center of her first break-up with Aidan, when trying to get Aidan back for Round 2!  She was just clueless.