S06.E03: The Other Shoe

[CCTC]

It was nice to see the evil step mother (good casting) be unapologetically evil but thenget her just desserts in the end, as well as to see a nice outcome for Cinderella and her sister.  

There was another version of Cinderella where one of the step-sisters came to see how they were treating Cinderella was wrong and was on good terms with her in the end.  It might have been the Drew Barrymore version (Ever After?).

[Terrafamilia]

Whew, that Storybrooke justice system really works quick. They went from apprehension of an alleged perp to stepmom in convict orange in no time at all.

Hook and Emma are just moving in together? Come on, put a ring on it. Hook has plenty to spare.

[Rumsy4]

10 minutes ago, CCTC said:

There was another version of Cinderella where one of the step-sisters came to see how they were treating Cinderella was wrong and was on good terms with her in the end.  It might have been the Drew Barrymore version (Ever After?).

Yup. The step-mother and the other step-sister got assigned to laundry duty in the castle. heh

[kili]

I really liked that they got the same actors to play Ella, Thomas and Gus.  Adorable scene with Hook/Alex.

I'm not really sure I understand why Ella had to fix this on her own. Why not bring along some reinforcements since she knew her violent step-mother was going to be there (the woman was in the process of killing Jacob when she showed up). She almost ended up dead. For that matter, why didn't she bring Snow and Thomas along with her when she went to confront her step-mother the first time? Surely, having some powerful royalty around would have helped. There is self-reliant and then there is stupid.

Step-mother was appropriately evil. So, the punishment for attempted murder and kidnapping in Storybook is community service? Maybe Rumple and Regina have been punished, we just didn't see them cleaning out the stables and washing graffiti off of Grannie's (probably "You're [sic] Lasagne Sucks!").

Why does Nurse Cratchet have the lasagne? Why didn't Regina bring a nice hot one? I like the continuity of the mop guy. I want to see what the actor puts on his resume.

Nice of the step-mother to let Ella have a roaring fire in her attic. Most step-mothers stint on the heat for their hated, abused step-children.

Hey, Regina, maybe if you were nice to your sister and had martini's with her, she'd like you better than your evil twin. All you ever do is yell at her.

I'm trying to figure out how Hook, Emma and Henry got to Jacob's pumpkin farm so fast. How did they even figure that out? Did they call Thomas and he mentioned that Ella's step-sister's boyfriend lived on the farm which just happened to be a half a mile from where the Evil Queen dropped them? I'm beginning to think the Evil Queen isn't all that evil. I definitely think she can't harm people.

Whale! That is all.

Where is Dopey going to college? Did he leave town before the latest curse? Can't say I blame him.

Oh, isn't that sweet. Snow is fondly remembering how much better things were under the curse. You know, when Charming was in a coma the entire time. Ouch. 

Charming's dad's coin looks like it is from the Far East. Either Claude killed his dad on the way back from his unsuccessful Yaoguai hunt or Charming's dad is Marco Polo. If it is the latter, I want a scene of people yelling "Marco" "Polo" all over town as they search for him.

[maryle]

I absolutely loved all the episode!

I love the twist with the sister in love with the footman !!

I found lady traimaine good to hate and the actress was convincing.

And how anyone can not live Gus as a mice and as a man who still love cheese.

Everything had a season feelings to it particularly the snowing scene. I am interesting in the murder mystery of Charming Father. Snow was not interested in it but why? 

Of course the captain swan scene was adorable too. And, I liked the scene with Emma at Archie office.

In fact, the only weakness was the EQ I just cannot take all that double thing seriously and the fact that she ended a scene with ha!! Ha! Ha! Ha!..  didn't help . But, Regina was ok with the others.

I like Hyde and Jekyll too.

A++ for me 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Even though I was disappointed that they chose not to include or even mention Anastasia as being a part of Ella's family, I am not sure I'd consider it a continuity error, because on OUaTiW, they never specifically mentioned the name Ella or glass slippers or anything that directly linked Anastasia to the Cinderella story, IIRC. It was all hints, not specifics. I would call it more of a continuity missed opportunity. 

Wonderland was a spin-off from the main show. It's the same Wonderland that was first featured in Season 1 of the main show. And Wonderland began with Will, in Storybrooke, who passed by Ashley/Ella and Grumpy on the street before taking a portal to Wonderland. To say "this" Cinderalla story is not the same as "that" Cinderella story is a cheat, at best. You can do a lot of hand waving on this show, because "magic," but when you introduce a character on one show and move it to the next show, you can't say "it's a different character." There are different Cinderella stories in different universes but there are not two different Cinderellas in this universe.

On another note: If the Evil Queen was good enough to furnish Hyde's cell with luxuries and good food, why didn't she just let him out in the first place? She did that eventually anyway. Why tip off everyone else she had been there and was using him for something?

[CCTC]

35 minutes ago, kili said:

Step-mother was appropriately evil. So, the punishment for attempted murder and kidnapping in Storybook is community service?

I suspect having to wear an orange jump suit was worse than life imprisonment for the evil lady.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I suspect having to wear an orange jump suit was worse than life imprisonment for the evil lady.

Quote

Whew, that Storybrooke justice system really works quick. They went from apprehension of an alleged perp to stepmom in convict orange in no time at all.

Orange is the New Step.

Edited October 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

20 hours ago, Mathius said:

Yes and yes.  Or rather, just because they were never outright said to be her Stepmother and Stepsister (although the hinting was pretty damn blatant), Adam said on Twitter that they weren't, and that if they can get Anastasia onto the show this season her backstory will be a new one altogether.

I'm really disappointed that they backtracked on Anastasia from "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" being Cinder's other sister.  That was actually a clever mash-up.  It wasn't even that hard to keep that... just cast an actress who resembled a younger Anastasia, or don't show her face in this episode.

I suppose the two stepsisters' stories (and Regina's) would have been remarkably similar... but that's actually a problem with not being original, no?

I came home really late last night, and didn't watch this until now, so I'll remark on the rest of the episode in a moment...

Edited October 10, 2016 by Camera One

[mjgchick]

They need to make Jane write more episodes.

Emma and the shakes needs to tell at least her parents whats going on if she's afraid to hurt Hook's happy ending. Also her son is clueless as well. Speaking of I love how even Henry got the Cinderella story wrong. That kid needs to stay home.

Gus was cuter than any Prince they've had on the show. Aladdin might be cuter once he comes on.

[Tiger]

4 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

Even though I was disappointed that they chose not to include or even mention Anastasia as being a part of Ella's family, I am not sure I'd consider it a continuity error, because on OUaTiW, they never specifically mentioned the name Ella or glass slippers or anything that directly linked Anastasia to the Cinderella story, IIRC. It was all hints, not specifics. I would call it more of a continuity missed opportunity. 

As for Gus and Thomas, those were the same actors. 

But wait, didnt Jessy Schram play Cinderella in at least one ep of Wonderland?  

[Camera One]

This episode was certainly better than the first two episodes this season, though overall, it was an average episode with both positives and negatives.  At this point, that's already a win since I found so little to enjoy in the last two episodes.

I was really happy when I saw in the first five minutes that they were actually going to tell the rest of the Cinderella story.  It was refreshing to see some old faces back and having those characters be the main focus of the story.  Last week, the Count of Monte Cristo was basically a prop for The Evil Queen in the flashbacks.  Having a happy ending also made this episode more enjoyable to watch.

Nevertheless, there were still some major issues that stopped this episode from being a great episode.  While I appreciate that they seem to be having more conversations and so-called character moments, there is something about the dialogue this season which feels unnatural and poorly written.  Is it because the conversations are longer and the quality is showing, or is it because the dialogue is just worse?  For example, Emma's scene with Archie just didn't sound right... Jennifer Morrison has delivered much worse lines in a convincing fashion, so I am going to blame the writing (and maybe the directing).   The whole "jealousy" stuff just didn't feel convincing to me.  Even Emma's scenes with Hook felt incredibly stilted.  I liked seeing Emma finding Ashley at the end without magic and Henry actually helping Emma for once, but it all felt very clunky.

Meanwhile, Snow was as usual written all over the place.  As glad as I am for Ginny actually getting lines, none of them affected me emotionally since it felt random.  She loved teaching and she wants to go back to that?  Though earlier, she declared that she and Charming fighting the Evil Queen was "what we do best"?  So does that mean she didn't enjoy tracking down The Evil Queen?  As others have mentioned, reminiscing about those 28 years was really idiotic and shows a complete lack of thought into the character.  It also once again minimized what Regina did.  This minimization also occurred later when the Evil Queen snerked about Emma putting Henry up for adoption with Emma saying "I was never around and I owned that".   Way to dodge attributing any blame to Regina for Emma being in that situation in the first place.

I don't understand why Regina didn't work on making sure The Evil Queen could never visit Hyde again or communicate with him.  Maybe make him mute?  Put a protection spell so no-one could enter the cell?  Shrink him and have him inside Regina's purse at all times?  Once again, they always keep the protagonists a few dozen steps behind the villains, which is frustrating to watch (as usual, though this is nothing new).  While Emma gets her magic disabled, the EQ gets free rein.  I was expecting Emma to beg Rumple for help, but instead we got David begging Rumple for help, which was another example of the protagonists being pathetic.  Why would any of them willingly go to make deals with Rumple ever again?

Speaking of pathetic, I shouldn't be surprised, but why do they always have to make Cinderella seem so lame.  At least have her hold off for a bit longer before she gave up her stepsister's location, or have her lie about the location.  I thought the way events occurred in the flashback was clunky with missing chunks, which was another major problem with the writing or editing.  Cinderella should have been in a huge hurry to get to the Watchtower, but they took a break to have Thomas make the proposal, which was supposed to be sweet but instead made Cinderella seem uncaring.  They never explained how the Evil Stepmother automatically knew about how to use the Key to the Land of Untold Stories.  Snow being able to talk to the mouse was nice (a bird would have been even better), but her and Thomas showing up out of nowhere to look for Cinderella felt like there was a missing scene where Thomas went to Snow for help.  Were we supposed to feel sorry for stepsister being trapped under the stepmother, when she was nasty enough to throw Cinderella's mother's dress into the fire?  She sure turned against Cinderella quickly at the Watchtower.  Oh well, despite the problems and given the alternative (more Evil Queen or Rumple), I'm still glad we got to see Cinderella's story.  The Evil Stepmother was surprisingly well casted, and she was actually menacing... even better than the Cate Blanchett version.

Other problems for me... why didn't they show David telling Snow about the coin?  When they spoke near the end, it seemed like she already knew about it.  So did he tell her the coin originally came from the Evil Queen or not?  I thought David's conversation with Belle was really clunky as well (that "Fathers and son..." line, ugh), in how it "led" to Belle realizing that maybe it's worse for a father to be gone than for a bad father to be around.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

17 minutes ago, Tiger said:

But wait, didnt Jessy Schram play Cinderella in at least one ep of Wonderland?  

Only in the first episode when she was closing up Granny's diner with Leroy, before Will broke in to the diner.

[Michel]

22 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I have so much praise for the Ella storyline I'm even willing to forgive the fact that they totally could have just said Anastasia was the other stepsister and just kept her offscreen.

Seriously! Emma Rigby wasn't available? If they couldn't have her, then they could have kept Anastasia away.

But I agree that this was a tremendous episode. As has been said, it felt like one of the old school ones. I ended up feeling for both Ella and her other stepsister.

David and Belle sharing a scene was a random, but fresh, pairing.  And I did like how they both talked about their fathers.  I'm actually shocked that Belle is still sticking to stay away from Rumpelstiltskin.

Glad Emma overcame her Tremors, at least for now. I'm still worried about who the mysterious hooded figure is.

The Evil Queen broke Hyde out?  This won't be good.

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

There was another version of Cinderella where one of the step-sisters came to see how they were treating Cinderella was wrong and was on good terms with her in the end.  It might have been the Drew Barrymore version (Ever After?).

Also, in the direct-to-video sequel to Disney's version, one of the step-sisters falls in love with a baker. Cinderella helps them get together, much to the dismay of Lady Tremaine.

What happened to the other stepsister?

Quote

Only in the first episode when she was closing up Granny's diner with Leroy, before Will broke in to the diner.

Yeah... you really can't tell me the writers weren't planning on Ana being Ashley's stepsister. But, they kept it intentionally ambiguous in case they needed to chicken out. (And they did.) Without the Will debacle from S4, it wouldn't bother me as much.

Edited October 10, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Quote

 

What happened to the other stepsister?

She's in the "Land of Rehashed Stories", which they won't visit until Season 8.  There's nothing more dangerous than a rehashed story.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Camera One

[KAOS Agent]

47 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I thought David's conversation with Belle was really clunky as well (that "Fathers and son..." line, ugh), in how it "led" to Belle realizing that maybe it's worse for a father to be gone than for a bad father to be around.

That conversation was really not good. Mostly in the messaging because it is definitely better for some bad fathers to be gone forever. David's father was a drunk and maybe he wasn't so bad, just morose about giving up his son. David was six when his dad died, so he wouldn't really remember much and it would make it easy to romanticize things as being better when dad was there even if he was useless. David's drunk father is not a good comparison for the Dark One who once murdered a man simply for being in the wrong place when Bae got careless and tripped. These things aren't equal.

[Camera One]

It was really distracting in the barn, when Hook was half-heartedly pointing the rifle at Lady Tremaine while she was off-camera, and then going off to hug Emma while looking away from that villain (who remained off-screen the entire time).  I expected her to lunge forward or something.  I must say her deciding to stab Ashley since it was more "personal" was quite funny.  

I actually thought it would have been interesting to see Henry make the list of people from the Land of Untold Stories.  Though I don't buy that people would give up their identities that easily if they willingly escaped to that land.

I'm so glad the stepsister forgave Cinderella and said it was alright.  Wouldn't a "I'm sorry too" have been in order?  As in, I'm sorry I was happy to watch you die five minutes ago and for treating you like crap all your life?

Still no talk of trying to find a way to open up a portal to get all these volatile people home?  Especially now that they know for sure The Evil Queen is working with Hyde to use these people for their own means?

Edited October 11, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Quote

I'm so glad the stepsister forgave Cinderella and said it was alright.  Wouldn't a "I'm sorry too" have been in order?  As in, I'm sorry I was happy to watch you die five minutes ago and for treating you like crap all your life?

Clorinda was supposed to be "good", but she wasn't very consistent. It was hard to tell what she was feeling. She was a plot device more than anything.

I thought it was odd that Lady Tremaine knew all about the Land of Untold Stories for a place where magic was thought to be non-existent.

When you compare the flashbacks here to 1x04, the Cinderella fairy tale is very cluttered. You have Lady Tremaine, the Random Key to Random Land, Gus-Gus, Rumple's deal with the baby, Ella's friendship with Snow, and then her romance with Thomas. A lot was going on that got omitted in the original episode. The key was the most... odd thing. It was shoehorned in to fit S6's theme.

Edited October 11, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Randomosity]

I didn't get to catch up on the episode until today, but I'm glad to see I wasn't the only one who ...gasp ... actually LIKED it. I was afraid the cold medicine I'm on had messed with my judgement, but I trust you guys. It really was a decent episode. I must agree about the writer doing a nice job - I recall her name from a couple of Gilmore Girls episodes (from the good years, not horrible seaosn 7).

I agree it felt more like the early seasons, with the fairytale flashbacks and an interesting twist on the classic version via the sister falling for the footman and actually showing remorse over how she treated Ella. I still can't get over how much Jessy Schram reminds me of Brittany Snow.

I also loved Killian with the little kiddo. It was a little cliche to have Emma's heart/ovaries set all aflutter and thinking about happy endings when seeing her boyfriend play nice with a little kid for the first time, but then again, it does happen in real life (and I was a bit aflutter myself anyway), so it's all good. I dislike that Emma's still hiding things, but I'm glad they're moving in together. Although I'm surprised that he hadn't already taken up residence in the house. How many days do we think it's been at this point since they arrived back from New York and got cockblocked by the blimp? I guess if it's just a night or two so far that he's been bunking with (snoring) Belle, it could be written off as everyone just crashing at night out of exhaustion during the frenzy of Evil Queen/Hyde/etc and not thinking too much about where and how it plays into relationships. I just wish we could see even more of the Captain Swan relationship evolution and how he ended up on the boat at first instead of the house right away. He seemed a little bitter about going so slow. Was there a conversation? Did he just assume he had to stay on the ship? At least we can assume that they'll finally get ...ahem... physical given that they're hardly having him move in as a platonic roommate. (Then again, I did just watch Big Bang Theory's new episode that had Sheldon and Amy 'living' together with zero physicality.) Still, it will be interesting to see the pace at which they have Emma/Hook move forward from here once they're living together.

I like the shoutout to Dopey's former tree-ness!

I'd be into Frankenstein et al as science teachers, but that whole schoolteacher bit of Snow's did seem a little odd and out of place.

"Free cheese." Heh :)

 

ETA: I know Emma made a point of saying she had a bunch of red leather and could make room for black, but earlier in the episode she was actually wearing black leather and I thought to myself that she was actually wearing Killian's jacket. It looked a lot like his.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Randomosity

[Randomosity]

Once I mentioned the timeline in my last post and how many nights Hook would have been bunking with Belle on the ship, I went and checked outfits from last ep to this. Snow/David Regina were all wearing the same thing in the first scene of this one as they were in the last episode, which ended at night. Then in the next scene in this one, it's morning and Henry and Emma have new outfits on when in Granny's. So, Hook was on a cot "near a pregnant woman who likes to snore" for only one night? Even though he said 'still'? So that would put them as what, two or three nights since arriving back from New York? I'm more ok with that than if Emma had been keeping him at arms length for a while. This still makes it seem more like a naturally flowing followup to the shmoopy "I love you" after getting back from NY. Things finally settled enough to have a picnic, so she was able to ask once they got a breath for the first time since NY.

/rambling :)

[Artsda]

I really loved this episode, Cinderella, Emma's story, the flashbacks it was perfect.

I could have done without the Belle/Rumple though.

[InsertWordHere]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And Wonderland began with Will, in Storybrooke, who passed by Ashley/Ella and Grumpy on the street before taking a portal to Wonderland. To say "this" Cinderalla story is not the same as "that" Cinderella story is a cheat, at best.

But my point is that they never outright said that Anastasia's stepsister who became a princess was Ella/Ashley. Yes, she was shown at the diner (as was Leroy who is unconnected to Wonderland except for that scene), but to my recollection, they never outright said the name Ella in connection to Ana or mentioned talking to mice or anything that specifically said "Anastasia is the stepsister from Cinderella." The biggest clue we had was the Jabberwocky saying, "You believe that the prince have chosen you instead of your stepsister, then, your mother would've loved you."

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

I suppose the two stepsisters' stories (and Regina's) would have been remarkably similar... but that's actually a problem with not being original, no?

It would have been interesting to think that Ana went from being raised by that mother to being trained in Wonderland by Regina's mother, a woman who would have agreed with Lady Tremaine's actions in this episode. But I suppose it's there even with the mother they showed in Wonderland in flashback before Ana and Will used the looking glass and it's part of the reason Ana decided to marry the Red King. 

6 hours ago, Tiger said:

But wait, didnt Jessy Schram play Cinderella in at least one ep of Wonderland?  

She played Ashley in Storybrooke. If Will knew her as Ella, he didn't mention it. 

5 hours ago, KingOfHearts said:

Yeah... you really can't tell me the writers weren't planning on Ana being Ashley's stepsister. But, they kept it intentionally ambiguous in case they needed to chicken out. (And they did.) Without the Will debacle from S4, it wouldn't bother me as much.

If they just hadn't shown the other stepsister, it would have kind of worked. Continuity would have been slightly messed up because Anastasia knew Ella was a princess at least by the time the Jabberwocky was taunting her about it but that was after the curse broke. Maybe after Jefferson arrived in Wonderland, he gossiped to Ana about a commoner marrying a Prince. I suppose they never outright said in this episode that there wasn't another sister who chose to be with a thief and went to another world. 

Quote

Once I mentioned the timeline in my last post and how many nights Hook would have been bunking with Belle on the ship, I went and checked outfits from last ep to this. Snow/David Regina were all wearing the same thing in the first scene of this one as they were in the last episode, which ended at night. Then in the next scene in this one, it's morning and Henry and Emma have new outfits on when in Granny's. 

I was happy thinking they finally stopped doing episodes that take place the very next day after the last one, but the costuming in the Hyde scene kind of ruins that. Darn. I mean, there's nothing to say the Ashley scenes took place the day after Regina and Snowing visited Hyde, so maybe they all had a day or two off before Ashley decided to grab the shotgun. I doubt Emma's having a session with Archie every day and both Hyde and Belle seemed like they had been in there respective places for more than two days/a day. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by InsertWordHere

[Camera One]

Maybe the other difficulty they had was that Anastasia's mother was shown in the Enchanted Forest in the Wonderland series, and now they needed her to be in the Land of Untold Stories in this flashback, so A&E decided it was better to cut the ties?  But as said above, they could easily have written around that, since Anastasia could have left for Wonderland by this point, couldn't she?

Maybe Lady Tremaine had Anastasia replaced with another girl... I wouldn't put it past her.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Camera One

[Camera One]

Why doesn't The Evil Queen just make Jekyll or Whale disappear or destroy all their equipment?  

Snowing feels perfectly safe walking around unarmed because The Evil Queen said she'd just wait 'til they destroy themselves?

Regina had very little response to Zelena's secret rendez-vous with The Evil Queen, so what was the point?  

Does Regina still have no magic?  If she did have magic, shouldn't Henry have been trying to call her as Ashley lay dying?

[Randomosity]

4 hours ago, InsertWordHere said:

I was happy thinking they finally stopped doing episodes that take place the very next day after the last one, but the costuming in the Hyde scene kind of ruins that. Darn. I mean, there's nothing to say the Ashley scenes took place the day after Regina and Snowing visited Hyde, so maybe they all had a day or two off before Ashley decided to grab the shotgun. I doubt Emma's having a session with Archie every day and both Hyde and Belle seemed like they had been in there respective places for more than two days/a day. 

I was thinking it was possible that it could be whatever number of days later too, though I didn't pay close enough attention to catch any clues indicating how many days later is was or wasn't. I'm not sure I'd use the Archie segment as proof it was a few days later, however. It didn't exactly seem like the one in this episode was a regularly scheduled therapy session, considering she burst in unannounced to Grumpy's appointment. To me, that was a one-off random/surprise/emergency session in response to Emma having emotional overload upon seeing Hook with Alexandra. I'll have to go back tonight and see if I can figure out how many days later it might be. Normally, I wouldn't be so nit-picky, but as I said, I actually LIKED this episode, and I'd like it even more if I could tell myself that, even though she's still hiding her visions/fate, Emma wasn't keeping Hook away for very long and inviting him to move in was a rather quick and organic progression not long after getting back from NY.

[Rumsy4]

6 hours ago, Camera One said:

Maybe Lady Tremaine had Anastasia replaced with another girl... I wouldn't put it past her.

She did have no qualms avandoning that girl when she took Clorinda and jumped through the door to the LoUS. lol

[Anakerie]

My favorite part was right before Emma asked Killian to move in with her, when she was just idly playing with the hair on the back of his neck. It was just somehow easy and realistic, besides being very sweet. It's nice to see a couple behaving like a couple.  And way to go, show, for remembering this time that Alex is female. And not an infant. 

Edited October 11, 2016 by Anakerie

[Camera One]

I'm curious how much time has passed as well.  How long had Corinder been faking her injury at the pumpkin farm waiting for Ashley?  How did they know she'd look there?  It appeared she was wandering around the docks for awhile.  It seems like they all just got there, the way Evil Stepmother trotted in Jacob.  Wouldn't Ashley have known immediately when the Untold Stories arrived that her stepmother/sister would be among them?  She casually went to see Henry's list of people, but at this point, didn't she already know?  Did the stepmother and stepsister actually tell Henry their true names in the census?  Since he didn't mention anything to Ashley.

Why would Thomas, knowing the history of Corinder, think Ashley was out to shoot her?  

The overall story might have been enjoyable, but the narrative was a mess.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

Emma's whole speech about how maybe there's a bus was so awkward and so very, very, very bad! Like she's really terrible at this if she's using Archie's words to explain that she wants to live in the moment. 

[Shanna Marie]

17 hours ago, kili said:

Oh, isn't that sweet. Snow is fondly remembering how much better things were under the curse. You know, when Charming was in a coma the entire time.

That whole thing was weird. She'd complained about the "defeat, repeat" cycle, but she wants to go back to the time when she relived the same day over and over again? And she was happier while separated from her husband, who was in a coma?

15 hours ago, Camera One said:

I don't understand why Regina didn't work on making sure The Evil Queen could never visit Hyde again or communicate with him.  Maybe make him mute?  Put a protection spell so no-one could enter the cell?

Change the security code? And have someone else pick the code, so the Evil Queen wouldn't be able to guess it by knowing what Regina would be thinking? The code should have been changed after Henry was able to break in last season.

14 hours ago, KAOS Agent said:

That conversation was really not good. Mostly in the messaging because it is definitely better for some bad fathers to be gone forever.

Yeah, that was really bad. Yes, some bad fathers are better gone forever, like if the father is abusive, criminal, or evil. Or even drunk. How does David know it would have been better to have an alcoholic father around, one who maybe drank away all the farm's profits so that they were even poorer or who got abusive when he was drunk? Meanwhile, they've already seen what happened to Rumple's first son, the one who ran away to another world to get away from having the Dark One as a father. How could anyone seriously tell Belle that it might be better for her son to have his father around when it's that father? That kid's going to have other men in his life, like Hook and David, and by the time he's old enough to even notice, Henry will be close to being an adult.

12 hours ago, Randomosity said:

So, Hook was on a cot "near a pregnant woman who likes to snore" for only one night? Even though he said 'still'? So that would put them as what, two or three nights since arriving back from New York?

Really, when did Emma manage to fully move in? She got the house when she was the Dark One, and since she's still living there and it was apparently actually on the market, I presume she bought it for real (and now I'm imagining the Dark One at closing), though then there's the question of how there was a house on the market in a town created by a curse. Like, who owned it before, and where did they go? She wasn't using her usual stuff while she was the Dark One, and I doubt she went over to her parents' loft to load up her stuff. But when did she move? Between Hook's death and going to the Underworld? Between Hook's funeral and him coming back? She's been around Storybrooke for maybe three days since she stopped being the Dark One. You'd never know from this season that the house is new to her. Maybe we should have seen the scene in which she moved out of her parents' place -- did she pack up a few boxes and load up the Bug? Did she talk to her mother while packing? Was there any discussion about her not having to move out and her saying it's time? Did Henry explore the new house and pick out his room and move any stuff over? Did Hook help carry boxes and feel awkward about not being invited to move in his stuff, even though he chose the house? Or did Emma just wave her hand and poof everything over?

[Camera One]

I guess Ashley needs to learn Emma's lesson that you can't do everything alone?  She acted like only she could make this right by herself.  As others have said above, it makes no sense that she would bring no backup... it was only to provide the "twist" that the Evil Stepmother also went through the portal.  And LOL when that "nice" stepsister (at the pumpkin patch) reminded Ashley she said she would fix this as the evil stepmother pointed the rifle.  What did she expect her to do?  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Once Upon A Time Reaches Way Back For An Untold Story From Season 1

But will you have a ball, or smash your glass slipper out of frustration?

[Rumsy4]

The narrative and dialogue had it's usual clunky moments, but the overall tone of the episode and positive resolutions helped a lot. I mean, we've had either angst or gloom and doom in forever. When was the last time we had an episode that had humor, wasn't Dark, had well-integrated secondary characters, and the villain didn't win? I honestly can't remember. 

[Mathius]

2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

When was the last time we had an episode that had humor, wasn't Dark, had well-integrated secondary characters, and the villain didn't win?

"The Bear King"?  :P

But since nobody likes to count that one, it would actually be 4B's "Poor Unfortunate Soul".  There were some dark elements (mainly Rumple holding a re-woodened August over a fire), but it was much lighter than literally any other episode in that arc, with funny lines and moments, good use of Ursula, Poseidon and Ariel, and an actual happy ending, all while Rumple didn't succeed in his current objective.  Since then?  Unrelenting gloom.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Mathius

[Randomosity]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Really, when did Emma manage to fully move in? She got the house when she was the Dark One, and since she's still living there and it was apparently actually on the market, I presume she bought it for real (and now I'm imagining the Dark One at closing), though then there's the question of how there was a house on the market in a town created by a curse. Like, who owned it before, and where did they go? She wasn't using her usual stuff while she was the Dark One, and I doubt she went over to her parents' loft to load up her stuff. But when did she move? Between Hook's death and going to the Underworld? Between Hook's funeral and him coming back? She's been around Storybrooke for maybe three days since she stopped being the Dark One. You'd never know from this season that the house is new to her. Maybe we should have seen the scene in which she moved out of her parents' place -- did she pack up a few boxes and load up the Bug? Did she talk to her mother while packing? Was there any discussion about her not having to move out and her saying it's time? Did Henry explore the new house and pick out his room and move any stuff over? Did Hook help carry boxes and feel awkward about not being invited to move in his stuff, even though he chose the house? Or did Emma just wave her hand and poof everything over?

Also very good questions re: timeline of moving. I don't think the writers have any concept of how few days all these episodes have taken and how that should be affecting all the stuff you brought up. And, not to mention, what's in the basement now that everyone is de-darked and that story arc is over?

[orza]

Emma has magic. It would take her about 2 seconds to magically move and arrange her small amount of stuff in the house. Why would anyone schlepp moving boxes and furniture if they could magically do it without breaking a sweat.

[Shanna Marie]

5 minutes ago, orza said:

Emma has magic. It would take her about 2 seconds to magically move and arrange her small amount of stuff in the house. Why would anyone schlepp moving boxes and furniture if they could magically do it without breaking a sweat.

Well, apparently Zelena did, since she had stacks of cardboard boxes in Regina's foyer, and she was even the person asking why they traveled in those death traps instead of poofing themselves around. Never mind where Zelena got the boxes of stuff, since she was in Storybrooke for maybe a week before being "killed," then was locked up in the psych ward before and after Camelot, then may have been loose for a day before Regina zapped her away. Emma doesn't yet seem to be of the "just do it with magic" mindset where she automatically does things the easy way. Even if she did just poof everything around, when did she do it? After Hook died but before they went to the Underworld? While they were tracking Hades? Between Robin's death and Hook's return? She got the shakes that might have made moving things magically difficult almost immediately after getting back from New York. She doesn't seem to have spent more than about five minutes in her house since she was the Dark One. And moving out of her parents' place would still have some emotional effect, even if it didn't require hauling boxes.

[CCTC]

28 minutes ago, orza said:

Emma has magic. It would take her about 2 seconds to magically move and arrange her small amount of stuff in the house. Why would anyone schlepp moving boxes and furniture if they could magically do it without breaking a sweat.

Samantha Stephens should have asked that type of question to Darrin every day.

[tri4335]

On 10/10/2016 at 10:06 AM, Shanna Marie said:

But poor Emma just can't win. She gets criticized for taking on too much and feeling like she always has to be the Savior, but then she gets the snarky "we don't wait around for you to help" from Grumpy, like she somehow failed in not saving Dopey and they resent having had to do something for themselves that they turned out to be perfectly capable of doing for themselves. They really need to define the job description for Savior because it seems like everyone should be taking more personal responsibility instead of counting on Emma to do everything, and there should only be specific occasions that call for a Savior.

 

On 10/10/2016 at 11:25 AM, Mathius said:

I didn't get that from the line at all.  I felt the resentment was for Emma expecting like she needs to help with everything and feeling like other people aren't capable of doing things for themselves.  Grumpy is a dwarf, so he takes pride in doing his own work, he doesn't want or expect a Savior to help him all the time.  Emma ought to take this as a sign that she doesn't need to go around fixing everyone's problems and can take time off for herself.

It just hit me that this episode gave us tremendous growth in Grumpy.  Remember when he and Granny were yelling at Snow to fix the power as that was her job.  In just a short amount of time, he has grown to take responsibility for himself and his friends and solve his own problem!  Yeah growth!!  Seriously though this line just reminds me that Emma's true title is not Savior but Whipping Post.

[Shanna Marie]

22 minutes ago, tri4335 said:

On 10/10/2016 at 0:25 PM, Mathius said:

I didn't get that from the line at all.  I felt the resentment was for Emma expecting like she needs to help with everything and feeling like other people aren't capable of doing things for themselves.  Grumpy is a dwarf, so he takes pride in doing his own work, he doesn't want or expect a Savior to help him all the time.  Emma ought to take this as a sign that she doesn't need to go around fixing everyone's problems and can take time off for herself.

It just hit me that this episode gave us tremendous growth in Grumpy.  Remember when he and Granny were yelling at Snow to fix the power as that was her job.  In just a short amount of time, he has grown to take responsibility for himself and his friends and solve his own problem!  Yeah growth!!  Seriously though this line just reminds me that Emma's true title is not Savior but Whipping Post.

Maybe it's because he sounded, well, grumpy, but it still seemed to me like he was griping that they had to do it for themselves while Emma was distracted by going off to the Underworld. That would be consistent with him yelling at Snow to fix the power. It sounded like he was irked that they'd had to take care of it themselves. But that may just be me reading that into it, since that's the general attitude in the town and the way he's acted before.

[tri4335]

@Shanna Marie - I agree with you and was joking that it was real growth. It was another dig at Emma that she is responsible for everyone's HEA and doesn't really get a day off.  Emma is the character to me that is held to impossible standards compared to everyone else and must be the one to sacrifice herself at any given moment not only for strangers but also for people who have actively done her harm.  Not that the dwarves have done her harm but you get my drift.

[Rumsy4]

I felt it was more Grumpy being a jerk and saying Emma was pointless--a repetition of what the EQ tells her later. Emma both wants and doesn't want to be the savior. On the one hand--being the savior means she gets to be useful and helpful. Her self-worth has sort of become tied to this, and she feels what's the point of her life if she's not saving people. On the other hand--being the savior is emotionally, physically, and spiritually draining, and she thinks she is literally going to die. So, Emma can be attacked on both ends of the spectrum psychologically. Grumpy was basically throwing a fit becasue they had to figure out how to get Dopey out themselves, so he was taunting Emma by telling her they didn't really need her after all.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Rumsy4

[KAOS Agent]

8 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

Emma's whole speech about how maybe there's a bus was so awkward and so very, very, very bad! Like she's really terrible at this if she's using Archie's words to explain that she wants to live in the moment. 

I actually really liked that because it wasn't practiced or prepared, it was Emma working things through on her own and the words just coming out. She wasn't really talking to Hook at that point. It's just Emma realizing that sometimes there is a bus, but you need to live your life and hope there isn't. Watch Hook's reaction. He's clearly like what are you even talking about? Did you really just ask me to move in or am I hallucinating because now you're talking nonsense about a bus. He doesn't fully react until she says that she's got some room for black leather and it's clear she really did ask him to move in.

[daxx]

The awkwardness of the bus mention is so totally Emma. It was perfect. 

[Camera One]

To me, it felt like a very contrived and clunky call-back to a very contrived and clunky line from earlier in the episode.  I couldn't buy that Emma was talking in the moment since I feel like the Writer was the one speaking.  I'm glad you all enjoyed it but I usually love Emma scenes and I was disappointed that all her conversations in this episode felt incredibly stilted and unnatural to me.

Edited October 12, 2016 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

4 hours ago, Camera One said:

To me, it felt like a very contrived and clunky call-back to a very contrived and clunky line from earlier in the episode.  

Like the random line about her armor in 5x20?

[Camera One]

Were they trying to use the same backstory for Lady Tremaine as the Cate Blanchett version?  

Lady Tremaine grumbled that "I wanted to be the one taken care of for once".  What does that mean?  If Cinderella had made her a duchess after becoming queen, would she have been satisfied?  In the flashback, she said "When the world makes sense again, I'll come back and get what's owed to me."  My my my, we're certainly entitled, aren't we?  Did she not know that villains never get happy endings?  

She's such a low profile actress she didn't give any interviews or tweets.  I would have liked to see more of her backstory.  I could see her and Cora commiserating.

[darkestboy]

Nice they remembered Cinderella/Ashley. Actually had the best flashbacks this season as well. Liked the stuff with his other stepsister and stepmother too.

Also enjoyed seeing Snow wanting to get back into teaching and trying to talk David out of revenge as well.

Not surprised that Hyde and the Evil Queen struck a deal with each other. They have potential as an alliance as well.

Great stuff with Emma in this week as well, 8/10
 

[Mitch]

Wow a good episode and it did seem S1ish. I think the main thing is that while it was Cinderella's story it added to the movement of the plot  (so now we kinda sorta know what the EQ wants, Emma to fail so that all the Happy Endings vanish..and they are essentially back to Cursed Storybrooke) and EVERYBODY had something to do instead of one character getting all the action while everyone else was a walk on.

I don't know who wrote it but Snow and Charming didn't annoy me, Emma and Hook didn't annoy with their overly cutesy selves or more angst, Rumple and Regina and the EQ were sprinkled throughout without going overboard, and we got a flicker that SB is a "real"  town with people living their lives there absurd as they are. The only weak point is Henry but he was used lightly (come on, his function as a plot device is over...send him to the Inter Realm School or something) and Zelena, who I like when being snarky, reverted to her "Oh everyone is mean to me," act..(hey witch, you helped Auntie Em go to purgatory so I can' t really feel sorry that your bossy bitchy sister is being just that to you...)

Though this show being this show you have to overlook things, like why didn't Rumple just zap the tape onto the ship, why doesn't Zelena zap an upgrade on that dump she is living in and why did Emma' s magic work all of a sudden and then not. and why didn't Regina free Hyde earlier?  I also would like a throw off like about Nurse Ratched and the janitor (Snow, "Why are they still here?" Regina, "I don't know, they really LIKE it down here,,,its weird even for me!")

My favorite scene was the end one...EQ and Hyde waltzing out of the jail/crazy house in full Victorian OT finery, cocky crazy looks on their faces as the janitor looks on. It all makes crazy sense for this crazy a** show. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by Mitch