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Anyone else think maybe Angela killed Nicole? There's just something vaguely disturbing about her.

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54 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Anyone else think maybe Angela killed Nicole? There's just something vaguely disturbing about her.

Was Angela the dark haired one who was interviewed who was on the bf's side? And there were the two twin looking blondes who were friends of Nicole. They seemed a little ... IDK what..

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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Anyone else think maybe Angela killed Nicole? There's just something vaguely disturbing about her.

Angela seemed a bit intense to me also, but she was vindicated in her belief that Doug didn't murder Nicole, so she could give her interview full steam, if you will.  I don't think she killed Nicole as there's no suspicion or evidence to support that. 

1 hour ago, ari333 said:

Was Angela the dark haired one who was interviewed who was on the bf's side? And there were the two twin looking blondes who were friends of Nicole. They seemed a little ... IDK what..

Matching hair (extensions).  Lotsa makeup, kind of like Andrea's stage makeup.  The one on their right (to our left as viewers) kept looking over at the other friend strangely, I thought.  Nicole, while being blonde too, didn't seem to be the third musketeer in the makeup dept., as her photos looked like she sported a more natural look.  Shallow, I know, but I do notice these things.

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I was thinking that Nicole ran out of the Sardine Can bar and that's where she encountered Burch, on the street between bars.  Remember, he had been a patron of Richard Cranium's Bar on the same street.  He might have given her the old southern gentleman routine like what's wrong, honey, why are you upset, and she stopped to talk to him and he charmed her (I know, but it could've happened) into his car for a ride home, but things turned violent and he ended her life.

I think that by now if Doug had been in cahoots with George Burch, Burch would have spilled the beans by now, as he's behind bars wearing an orange jumpsuit for the rest of his life.  He put that story together and it worked, for a few days.

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On ‎4‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 12:55 PM, walnutqueen said:

It is my (very limited, I'll admit) understanding that the majority of the victims could not seek justice because of the statute of limitations, which is why only the most recent of the allegations was prosecuted.

Sometimes it takes decades, or longer, to come to terms with, or have the courage to admit molestation.  If I could dig up my dead stepfather's body and have him held accountable for what he did to me in the 1960s (not to mention the 1980s), I might be tempted to do so.  Even if a legal case couldn't be made, I would want him to face public scrutiny and the judgement of his "peers" - which he avoided his entire goddamned life.  Some people might say he's burning in Hell, but that's really no solace or satisfaction, as I'm not sure I believe in all that stuff.  So, I think I get it.

 

ETA - and maybe I'm just bitter for not having "found my voice" and confronting him until it was too late.

 

You have every right to feel this way, and it shouldn't be called bitter.  Be proud that you've found your voice no matter how long it took!  I don't weep for these "poor men" who "suffer" for decades living their happy lives wondering if the truth will ever come out.  Justice shouldn't stop because the perpetrator is old.  And these pedophiles thrive due to statutes of limitations. 

ETA:  And there'd better be a hell because it's where I wish all of the animal abusers who skate because the law doesn't value an animal's life.

Edited by RedheadZombie · Reason: ETA
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3 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

ETA:  And there'd better be a hell because it's where I wish all of the animal abusers who skate because the law doesn't value an animal's life.

Amen to that.  I want a special hell for animal abusers and child molesters, who are on my personal "kill if I'm dying" list.

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4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

Amen to that.  I want a special hell for animal abusers and child molesters, who are on my personal "kill if I'm dying" list.

LOL.  I've seen you post that before.  It can be your version of The Purge.

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Angela seemed a bit intense to me also, but she was vindicated in her belief that Doug didn't murder Nicole, so she could give her interview full steam, if you will.  I don't think she killed Nicole as there's no suspicion or evidence to support that. 

I was mostly being facetious (although she was the last person to see Nicole alive!!! other than the murderer) but yeah, she seemed kind of scary to me.

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I swear I've seen Angela before, and this is not the only time that some of the talking heads from these types of shows look familiar (and I don't mean from other shows covering the same stories).  Was there anyone else there to speak out on Doug's behalf?  If so, I don't remember.  It makes me wonder if sometimes they get people from central casting when they can't set up interviews with real people familiar with the case.  

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On 5/12/2018 at 5:08 PM, cooksdelight said:

I cannot stomach Andrea, she is an uptalker. If you listen to her, she ends every phrase or sentence with a high note. Drives me nuts.

I cannot stand the inane questions she asks and the way she asks them in that halting weird tone. I have to FF every time she opens her mouth. It seems that the detectives and attorneys are sometimes appalled at her interviewing. Her wardrobe is the least annoying thing about her.

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7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I was mostly being facetious (although she was the last person to see Nicole alive!!! other than the murderer) but yeah, she seemed kind of scary to me.

No problem, sometimes our intentions of facetiousness, snarkiness and sarcasm don't translate to text-only posts!  :D  She was a bit on the dramatic side.  "I couldn't sleep. <Pause> I couldn't eat."  Just to mention one, and her delivery was, well, intense!

ETA:  I wouldn't want to be on her bad list or meet her in a dark alley.

57 minutes ago, lizajane said:

I cannot stand the inane questions she asks and the way she asks them in that halting weird tone. I have to FF every time she opens her mouth. It seems that the detectives and attorneys are sometimes appalled at her interviewing. Her wardrobe is the least annoying thing about her.

I think Andrea is an attractive, pretty woman who has a lot of style sense.  Her outfits are a little too casual and skimpy in my view of what a hard-hitting journalist/reporter should be wearing on the set though.  She must change her clothes every 20 minutes during the entire taping of one episode.  She does get a little crazy with the way she tries to relate to the people.

Edited by CelticBlackCat · Reason: dark alleys and sh*t lists
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On 5/5/2018 at 7:33 AM, Stampiron said:

No way to know for sure, but I think it's just as likely that she just made up the pregnancy. 

I was a little surprised that the prosecution didn't feel confident selling a first-degree murder charge at trial. Leaving his phone at home plus the app auto-sending texts seems like a clear attempt to establish an alibi before the fact.  (I hate to give props to a murderer, but that was pretty sophisticated thinking on his part. Wouldn't expect that from someone his age.)

Kids these days are very sophisticated about using apps and the latest technology on computers, smartphones, etc.  His premeditation is a clear path to first degree murder.  He planned it ahead of time, he did not want to just talk to Dannie and then snapped.  Oh, and bringing the cinder blocks and rope?

On 5/5/2018 at 8:41 AM, Ohmo said:

I don't know if sad is the word that I would use.  I liked a post upthread because I feel sorry for the grandfather,  Je'Michael is also guilty because murder is not the way to handle anything.  However, I have news for Dannie's family.  She was not the magically sweet teen that they thought she was.  She was not the random, unwitting victim of a situation.  Telling your boyfriend that you're pregnant when you're not is dangerous.  Being in a secluded area with him late at night is dangerous.  Like someone said upthread, Je'Michael thinking the way that he did had consequences, but Dannie also thinking that she could magically get Je'Michael back with a baby was an equally dumb idea.  I know that both of them were teenagers, and teenagers make dumb decisions.  However, the reality is is that all decisions have consequences.  Dannie is dead, and it's not like the teenage decisions don't count.  I feel that that's how we're supposed to view cases like this.  Like it was a stupid teenage decision and nothing more.  Everyone only gets one life, no matter how old a person is, and people have to take some agency in order to try and protect themselves.  I feel very sorry for Dannie's family.  They truly believed that she was more innocent than she turned out to be.  The cop said that she wasn't pregnant, so she was taking a gamble, and she lost.  She did indeed deserve to live, but the situation was not without some participation on her part either.  I get tired of being told to wave situations away due to teenage stupidity.  Plenty of teenagers make stupid decisions, but many others don't.  Je'Michael should not have killed her.  He deserves to be in prison, but if Dannie had also made some different choices, she might very well still be alive today.

If you're going to throw something at me, I suggest chocolate....dark chocolate is my favorite.

Here's a pound of dark chocolates in a pretty box with a gold ribbon on it.  I'm not throwing them at you.

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I admit Ja’Michael killing Dani came out of left field for me because he was so cool during the interrogations. I noticed too he made eye contact with the family when he was apologizing and during the one victim impact statement. That was unusual. However, I absolutely don’t believe his version of the story. I’m surprised his friend didn’t fess up with more details. 

I feel sorry for the grandpa. Even if he’d started looking for her within 15 minutes it would’ve been too late as he didn’t know she was at the creek. I’m sure that provides him with no comfort though. 

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Tonight's episode about the House on Pitch Pine Crescent....

Kind of unfair to hold off the info about the nasty, nasty custody dispute until after the first hour & 15 minutes.  I would suspect that Bill Harrison's death was not investigated further because the coroner concluded it was a heart attack AND because the family did not press the police any further since the kids had been abducted and taken to Nova Scotia.  Bridget was spending months trying to find those children and get them returned to the Toronto area.

However, Bridget's death did seem to warrant more investigation than the police appeared to provide.  While the family claims they did tell the police about the custody situation, I'm not so sure they persisted with that line of suspicion with enough conviction to convince the police  On the other hand, the police could have done more to investigate Melissa and Chris' alibis, etc.

For me the most disturbing aspect:  that couple evidently murdered three people because they were not happy splitting custody with the Harrisons.  And I suspect that they had absolutely no remorse.

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"Murder on Pitch Pine Crescent" 

I'm not sure whether Bill was murdered or not. And I'm bummed Melissa wasn't found guilty of murder for the other two. 

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2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Most ironic statement in a while:  Three time cold blooded murderer Chris talking about his victims, "They were just awful people."

I thought the same thing. This case made me so sad. At least Caleb's death could've been prevented, and maybe Bridget's too. It was weird to hear the police department praised for how they handled the investigation of Caleb's death when they botched the other cases. 

I can't believe those horrible people killed three over a custody dispute, especially when both sides were seeing the kids. 

Dateline drives me nuts by withholding important information until the second hour. 

Edited by teebax
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I have been googling my head off this morning to learn more about this case. I can’t link due to PHONE but am gleaning a bit more info on Projects.thestar.com. Investigators bungled this all so badly. They found a laptop left behind when the killers relocated, with a treasure trove of hideous internet search history like “easy ways to kill and get away with it” but their search and seizure was improper so all this was ruled inadmissible. 

No doubt in my mind that Bill was murdered, and that the two subsequent killings should have been prevented. What a sad and horrible story. 

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As I mentioned upthread, not so sure Bill's death involved a bungled investigation so much as no one (including the police) being absolutely sure it was a suspicious death.  The coroner ruled it a heart attack....and the family got side-tracked trying to get the children back from Nova Scotia.

Someone in the family (Bridget's brother?) stated he believed that Melissa was the mastermind behind it all.  I totally agree....I think she manufactured the stories about Caleb being abusive when they separated...and just kept spinning tales to Chris about all the Harrisons being evil and a danger to the two kids.  It is also possible she kept having kids to keep Chris in their relationship...and doing her bidding.

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Such a horrible story.  That couple was pure evil, imo.  When people are that horrific, it makes me wonder how they actually treat their kids. I wouldn't be so quick to paint them as loving parents. 

Whenever people are involved in child custody matters, they need to be very careful with their safety.  I'm not sure when that fact will sink in.  It causes high tempers, poor judgment and often brings out the worst in people.  You really do need to protect your self and use all safety precautions, like doing custody exchanges in public places and limiting any other contact.  There were so many things that went wrong with this case, I don't know where to start.  Hopefully, it will be a textbook case that they use to teach professionals things you don't do. 

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Kind of unfair to hold off the info about the nasty, nasty custody dispute until after the first hour & 15 minutes.

I thought the same thing. This episode could have been a half hour long if they just told us from the beginning the family all suspected the ex-wife and her boyfriend all along, because of the nasty custody dispute. I don't know why they had to frame this whole thing as a mystery. It could be just as compelling a story if they frame the whole thing around police incompetence - the family keeps pressing the authorities to look harder at the ex-wife and they either don't or can't for some reason until after Caleb is killed. Why spend an entire hour acting like nobody knows what's happening?

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Because if baseball we only got the last 40 minutes on the DVR, is it interesting enough for me to seek out the episode? 

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11 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Certainly they should have been caught after Bridget's murder as it seemed pretty obvious that it was not a fall if only from the way she was lying on the stairs. 

 

I was struck by the way the family was initially trying to reconcile Bridget's death by claiming she died of a broken heart. Really? That doesn't look like a "broken heart" kind of death to me, but okay. 

To say nothing of how the law enforcement people should've been more suspicious when they had to come out to that house a second time within a year to deal with another suspicious death. That should've definitely tipped off some serious alarm bells, right there. 

Quote

So ironic that they killed them all (IMO) to end up with custody of Caleb's kids, and in the end all 6 kids have no parents. 

That's the part that always gets me about these "murder for custody" stories. I know these criminals never think they'll get caught (and with the bad investigating in this case, I can see where this particular couple actually thought they'd get away with it), but still... You're going through all this crap for something that, if you get caught, you'll lose for good anyway. I don't get how people think it's worth it. 

(I loved how Melissa and Chris were quietly discussing their crimes and Chris talking about how he was taking the fall with each other in that airport, too. Yeah, they didn't know they were being recorded, but if you really want to get away with your crimes, why are you discussing them in public at all, recording or no recording?)

3 hours ago, sinycalone said:

Someone in the family (Bridget's brother?) stated he believed that Melissa was the mastermind behind it all.  I totally agree....I think she manufactured the stories about Caleb being abusive when they separated...and just kept spinning tales to Chris about all the Harrisons being evil and a danger to the two kids.  It is also possible she kept having kids to keep Chris in their relationship...and doing her bidding.

Yep. I fully agree she was the mastermind, too. I can't say I pegged her as the suspect right away, but I do remember finding it odd when she was being interviewed by the police afterwards and constantly being all, "I don't want to speculate or point fingers"...only to go on and speculate and point fingers. 

Yeah. Weird, crazy, sad story indeed. Those poor children. 

Edited by Annber03
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I tried watching this case. But I just could not get into it. I blame Andrea Canning. I am not sure what she was trying to do. But telling a good story was not it. She had me confused and then my mind would wander. Two hours of her is hard to take.

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6 minutes ago, LakeGal said:

I tried watching this case. But I just could not get into it. I blame Andrea Canning. I am not sure what she was trying to do. But telling a good story was not it. She had me confused and then my mind would wander. Two hours of her is hard to take.

I'm not sure I've seen the end of any of hers. I fall asleep every time.

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That was so sad. Two generations of a family wiped out over custody issues.

BTW, I don’t believe in ghosts, but I wouldn’t buy a house three people were murdered in. ?

5 hours ago, LakeGal said:

I tried watching this case. But I just could not get into it. I blame Andrea Canning. I am not sure what she was trying to do. But telling a good story was not it. She had me confused and then my mind would wander. Two hours of her is hard to take.

Give me Keith Morrison or Josh Mankiewicz anytime!

Edited by LittleIggy
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15 hours ago, Mama No Life said:

I'm not sure I've seen the end of any of hers. I fall asleep every time.

I know the feeling...had to keep watching this, though...really wanted to see those two bottom-feeders in handcuffs.

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12 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

BTW, I don’t believe in ghosts, but I wouldn’t buy a house three people were murdered in. ?

I thought the same thing. Heck, I was surprised that Caleb was still staying there after Bill and Bridget's deaths. Not only would that have made people more suspicious of him ('cause, after all, what person would want to stay in a home where two people were murdered, unless they may have been the one who did it), but if I were him, I would've worried that I might be next in this weird little "curse". I know they talked about how he kept insisting he wasn't worried, but clearly he should've been. 

And when they showed that house, I kept looking at the homes next door to it and wondered how often those neighbors were peeking out their windows and looking warily at that house, and how many rumors may have been spread in that neighborhood over all the weird goings-ons there. 

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5 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

I thought the same thing. Heck, I was surprised that Caleb was still staying there after Bill and Bridget's deaths. Not only would that have made people more suspicious of him ('cause, after all, what person would want to stay in a home where two people were murdered, unless they may have been the one who did it), but if I were him, I would've worried that I might be next in this weird little "curse". I know they talked about how he kept insisting he wasn't worried, but clearly he should've been. 

And when they showed that house, I kept looking at the homes next door to it and wondered how often those neighbors were peeking out their windows and looking warily at that house, and how many rumors may have been spread in that neighborhood over all the weird goings-ons there. 

Right and not only that, but, what about the attorneys who represented Caleb and his parents in the custody matter?  I would have been all over that!  With the custody at stake after the death, you can file motions, take depositions, demand answers from these people.....doesn't seem like much happened. 

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I've been in the middle of a child custody case in my professional career as one of the child's advocates and all I can say is I'm not surprised three people ended up dead over child custody. 

I knew that Melissa was guilty as soon as she started suggesting (but then saying she wasn't suggesting when she clearly was) that Caleb was guilty of Bridget's death, just like I knew the boyfriend in the Creek case was guilty as soon as he suggested Dani (sp?) might have run away or committed suicide when she went missing. If you ever murder someone, never suggest another suspect, or suggest that it might not have been murder because it makes you look guilty as hell unless several other people are saying the same thing, and if it's not true then it's likely no one else is going to suggest your theory of the crime except maybe your family or friends who got their information from you. I thought Melissa and her boyfriend made a lot of stupid mistakes and if it weren't for police incompetence they wouldn't have gotten away with one murder let alone three. Melissa was manipulative and not entirely stupid but she also wasn't criminally sophisticated so she made a lot of errors. The boyfriend was beyond stupid for speaking with the police without an attorney present (if in Canada people have a right to an attorney). If I'm ever being questioned about a crime the first thing I do, whether I'm guilty or innocent, is demand an attorney and refuse to talk until I have one present. It's Law and Order 101.

I was surprised Bridget and Bill were given partial custody when Caleb went to jail. Grandparents in the United States don't have many rights so it's rare for them to share custody with a parent or even be granted visitation if the child is in the custody of one of their parents. I was also surprised that Melissa was allowed to have unsupervised visitation or partial custody of the children after abducting them for eight months. I'm pretty sure that if she were in the United States she would not have been allowed to see the children after that, and she likely would have had a very lengthy prison sentence as a result. I often find the criminal justice system in the U.S. to be overly punitive but not when it comes to kidnapping or child abduction. 

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I never see the people who kill in a custody battles as good but desperate parents who love their children, I see them as monsters who just want to win.  It also kind of amazes me that the big oaf of a boyfriend and Melissa went on to have 4 more children together but obviously didn't have the financial means to support 6 children.  How on earth would it not raise suspicion when an online 'benefactor' surfaces out of the blue to help them out financially?  Just shocking how they took out an entire family one by one and police didn't check into it until the last one was killed? 

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Now that was a GREAT DATELINE...I knew that bitch of a mother was involved, who knows that it was exactly 9:07 or whenever she said she did something "the night of", nobody. Doesn't she watch the ID channel? 

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5 minutes ago, atlantaloves said:

Doesn't she watch the ID channel? 

On that note, there was the one lady on here who seemed to think that the idea of somebody killing for insurance policy didn't make much sense, or something to that effect-I always love it when these shows have people who say things like, "Oh, there's no way somebody could kill for x reason! That's just too ridiculous!" Every time I hear that I can't help thinking, "You people clearly do not watch a lot of true crime shows." :p. 

I kind of appreciate that innocence about and faith in humanity, though. 

Edited by Annber03
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3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

I kind of appreciate that innocence about and faith in humanity, though. 

Without it we wouldn't have the ID network...and then what would we do?

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I agree that you can't rule things out like a motive for murder, because you personally don't think it makes sense.  There are a lot of dense people out there and they do some pretty stupid things. In their mind, it makes sense.  Like killing someone for insurance money, before you confirm that the policy is current.  That happens sometimes.  Oops.  And murdering someone over custody matters is not uncommon.  Murderers don't normally use a lot of logic and reasoning. They just want what they want. 

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2 hours ago, Janc said:

Here's a great interactive story of the case from the Toronto Star. 

That's incredible! Thanks!  There is something on You tube similar to that about Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman's murders.  It really demonstrated from an actual viewpoint how it likely happened.  It was developed using evidence offered by the state. I'll try to find the link.   I was always so confused by the photos of the front of Nicole's house and the location of the bodies. This digital demonstration explained it so well. 

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

That's incredible! Thanks!  There is something on You tube similar to that about Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman's murders.  It really demonstrated from an actual viewpoint how it likely happened.  It was developed using evidence offered by the state. I'll try to find the link.   I was always so confused by the photos of the front of Nicole's house and the location of the bodies. This digital demonstration explained it so well. 

 

That was fascinating. I never really understood it either. Him picking them up with the knife is.....ugh. Horrible. I knew Nicole didn’t stand a chance, but poor Ron didn’t either. I always wondered about that. 

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On 5/19/2018 at 6:57 PM, biakbiak said:

Because if baseball we only got the last 40 minutes on the DVR, is it interesting enough for me to seek out the episode? 

Yes if you want to see how they misdirected the story. Annoying!

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This case reminded me of a documentary that came out maybe 10 or so years ago. I'm hoping someone can help me remember the name. It was about the case where the mother killed the father, then took the baby up to Canada, and then when the grandparents went up there to pursue visitation, the mother ended up drowning herself and the baby. I think the child's name was Zachary.   Ring any bells for anyone? I hope its still available on-line.

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3 minutes ago, missy jo said:

ChristmasJones, I think it was called "Dear Zachary" and was on Netflix. 

yes, that's it- thanks!! I remember watching it on YouTube years ago but I think its gone now.

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I went online to watch the most recent episode because I cannot stand Andrea Canning’s voice, so I used closed captioning. I started to go look up the case to see who killed who, because they had me thinking the wife did it. No, the son did them both. No, someone else did it. 

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It shows how far people will go to have their children all to themselves. There is another case I can think of where the parents of a woman killed her ex-husband because they wanted the grandchildren all to themselves. Can't remember the names.

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There are quite a few of those out there.  Just the other night there was one about the mother-in-law who dressed like a man and murdered her son's wife and mother of her grandchild, right in front of the Target! Right in front of the toddler too.  They did catch her and she's serving life in prison.  All because her adult son was getting visitation and she wanted him to have full custody of the baby.  

Then there's the grandparents who hired someone to shoot their son-in-law when he came to the door of his house, due to dispute with custody of the grandkids.  

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I don't think this particular horrid case was ever on Dateline, but it was on a crime show on ID or something. A grandmother hired a hitman to kill her seven-year-old granddaughter, because the next week she was going to testify that her father (the grandmother's son) was molesting her. Luckily, the hitman had a line he wouldn't cross and contacted authorities.

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1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

Luckily, the hitman had a line he wouldn't cross and contacted authorities.

Aristotle was right.  Everyone does have a line.

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