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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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Hey, could I ask a favor?  When y’all start discussing an episode (or revisiting an old one), could you maybe mention the air date or the episode number or something? I don’t watch on a regular basis, but sometimes the discussion here makes me want to seek it out. It’s sometimes kind of hard to figure out what to look for on the nbc app. And apparently there are different versions, like Dateline vs. Dateline Mystery vs. Dateline Weekend…? I guess I should have been paying closer attention  :)

 

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18 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I didn't understand that either, how Joan could get away with not being called to testify. Even if she didn't answer questions, the jury could see that she was not cooperating. 

A judge might not have allowed it.  In watching these true crime shows, I've seen episodes where judges have prevented lawyers from presenting alternative suspects to a crime.

In fact, that's what happened in the new series hosted by Hilarie Burton "True Crime Story: It Couldn't Happen Here."  (Which I need to start a thread for if no one else has because I have thoughts on every episode.)

The judge might know that the defense lawyer will ask questions where she'll invoke her 5th amendment and, from what I understand, once you take it, you have to take it for all of the testimony.

9 hours ago, TVbitch said:

So I think Kit did beat/shoot Cal, threw him in the cellar, lit the place on fire and left. But he fucked up the fire by closing the cellar door. Hours later, he expects the place to be up in flames, but it's not, so he needs to go back over to cover the crime. This time, he is surprised by Pam and the neighbor and now he is seen, so he takes them out, too. He needed to get out of there quick at that point so putting them in her car and driving away was his on the spot strategy.   

I also thought Kit came off as thinking he was smarter than everyone else.

That's why I lean towards guilty.  I think his plan was to burn Cal.  He cased out places to do it.  Decided on the home.  Then when it didn't work and he went back, he ended up killing Ed and Cal's wife.  Maybe he was hoping they wouldn't identify Ed and Cal's wife and he hoped they'd think they ran off together after killing Cal.

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This was a tough one.  I think that what finally leaned it in Kit's direction of being the murderer was two things: that Cal was so badly beaten (something a woman was very unlikely to do) and that Pam and the neighbor had been taken out to the car (dead weight is pretty damn heavy) to dispose of them.  

I like the idea that maybe Kit thought the cops would think that Pam and the neighbor were having an affair and that they killed Cal and then tried to escape.  Only thing is, why wind up in a field in the middle of nowhere and have the car catch fire with you still in it?   

My impression of Kit is that he is another egotistical asshole who thinks that he's the smartest guy in the room.   And yes, I wish that Dateline would have told us why the police had cleared Joan of being part of this.    I never considered that the victims' son and his aunt planted that evidence - I thought that maybe Joan did to make sure that Kit was convicted, but it probably makes more sense that the son and his aunt planted it.   We watch these shows and always think that the loved ones of the victims are always so squeaky clean, but that might not be the case.  

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Triple Murder (Kit, Joan, Cal, etc.) aired Sept 24, 2021:

I was happy that I knew nothing about this case, so it was all new and fresh to me. I can't keep names straight (hence, the "etc." above) and had to rewind a few times while watching to understand what was going on. 

I don't know who murdered these 3 people, but I truly can't get over, as many others have said, why that woman did NOT call the police, or do anything more substantial than think "hmmmm" when she was talking to the victim apparently right as she got attacked. And then she backed away from the door/house and didn't alert anyone? SO FREAKING WEIRD! Who does that? 

I also thought it was crazy how much evidence the family found that the police didn't? Shell casing here, dog tag there. I can't remember if the Pembroke police dept brought in the state or FBI? They clearly don't have an experienced crime scene unit. 

I may be getting my episodes mixed up (watching too many true crime shows lately) but did the murdered couple have a dog? I feel like there was a german shepard referenced somewhere. Again, could completely be from 48 Hours or something I watched on ID. But if so, where was the dog after all this happened? 

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4 minutes ago, hookedontv said:

I don't know who murdered these 3 people, but I truly can't get over, as many others have said, why that woman did NOT call the police, or do anything more substantial than think "hmmmm" when she was talking to the victim apparently right as she got attacked. And then she backed away from the door/house and didn't alert anyone? SO FREAKING WEIRD! Who does that? 

I also thought it was crazy how much evidence the family found that the police didn't? Shell casing here, dog tag there. I can't remember if the Pembroke police dept brought in the state or FBI? They clearly don't have an experienced crime scene unit. 

I may be getting my episodes mixed up (watching too many true crime shows lately) but did the murdered couple have a dog? I feel like there was a german shepard referenced somewhere. Again, could completely be from 48 Hours or something I watched on ID. But if so, where was the dog after all this happened? 

Paragraph 1: I was flabbergasted that the "dog lady" did not contact authorities when both the call sounded weird and then she went to the house and the door was open. I just thought that was all very strange.  I live in a small town where most everyone knows everyone and we all look after each other so this information is just not adding up with the "dog lady".

Paragraph 2: I wondered if more than the Pembroke P.D. investigated, too.  Most small towns are not equipped to handle 1 murder much less 3.

Paragraph 3:  I thought there was a dog that was dying and then it was never mentioned again.  I believe it said that Cal was home waiting for the washer to be delivered and grieving the dog being sick? Something like that.  Someone correct me if I got this wrong.

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I don't know if Kit murdered all three people but like many have already said, based solely on what Dateline showed, I think there was reasonable doubt, much as I hate to admit it. Kit seemed like an arrogant, narcissist a-hole, but he was right about the discrepancies he pointed out. The dog tags could have been ripped off around his neck during a fight with Cal and then somehow inadvertently left there, but why were they the fake tags and not his real ones? That was never explained. Also, it seems so supremely incompetent for the police not to have closed the house as a crime scene and then of course not found the bullet casing. It is possible that it was planted, either by Joan as Kit contends, or by Cal's sister who claims she found it months later and subsequently failed a polygraph when questioned about it. Like others have pointed out, it was awfully convenient that it was found after they installed surveillance cameras to capture her finding it. 

Joan had a teenage boy and he could have helped his mother commit these crimes. I don't necessarily think that is what happened, but we never got an explanation as to how and why she was cleared. 

I think it's possible that Kit did commit these crimes and that evidence was planted to help the case along. 

 

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As far the the CDs go, I am wondering why they would have "secret" written on them? Is that something that a military person would do with CDs that they have a work?

I realize they probably can't tell us what was on the laptop and on the CDs if it's classified information (UFOs??? 😀)) but I would like to know why the military and/or the authorities think Kit took that info home with him. Was he planning to sell it to a foreign government? Or was he just stealing a laptop and a bunch of CDs? That doesn't make a lot of sense either. It's enough to give some credence to his theory that Joan took them and planted them there. 

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Kit filed for divorce from Joan, not the other way around. If Kit really had beat her son (and supposedly had been for years) why would she not have filed to divorce him?

Well, she couldn't, because she was still married to that other guy! LOL.

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16 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I would like to know why the military and/or the authorities think Kit took that info home with him. Was he planning to sell it to a foreign government?

He might have just brought work documents home to work on them even though he's not supposed to. 

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There have actually been people who hoarded massive amounts of classified material, and when they were caught they were sentenced to many years in federal prison.   With the scanning, and sending capabilities people have now, who knows how much of the classified material is sent elsewhere.  

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Friday's show was depressing. Can't believe they didn't take Howard's accomplice out of prison and drive him around to help them find the bridge. They could have started searching four years before they did. If the girlfriend hadn't turned her recording over to the cops, the murderer would not have received any justice. Luckily she got rattled before running back to marry him. Sounds like she had her parents blessing. File under: WTF. 

I feel for the mom, but promise or no promise, you gotta let it go. Letting your life be consumed by it just compounds the tragedy. Also, the mom had the most soothing voice ever. She could totally do ASMR audios! : D

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1 hour ago, TVbitch said:

Can't believe they didn't take Howard's accomplice out of prison and drive him around to help them find the bridge. They could have started searching four years before they did.

My mom and I said the same thing. I feel like there were so many ways in which this case could've potentially been solved a lot sooner.

Also, so, if I understand it right, that friend of Howard's said he had pulled up down the road from the house ,where they were having the barbecue, and that's when he murdered him? Is that correct? 'Cause if so, why wasn't there mention of the police talking to people at the barbecue? Surely somebody might've seen or heard something odd. I know they briefly interviewed the people raising Howard, but still...

Howard himself was a real piece of work, one of those assholes you just want to smack for how arrogant and secretive he is about what he knows. It was so clear that his time at that Bible college, claiming he'd "found Jesus", was nothing more than a front, because if he'd genuinely "found God" or felt any kind of remorse, he wouldn't have played those obnoxiously cutesy games of "Oh, gosh, I can't quite remember the bridge where I dumped his body..." with the officers years later. Bullshit, you do too remember. Not every day one murders somebody and disposes of their body in a gruesome manner, after all. You're not going to forget those kinds of details. 

Course, this is the same guy that tried to paint the murder as an "accident", 'cause who doesn't point a big ol' gun at someone like that with no dangerous intent whatsoever, right? Please. He knew his way around a gun. I feel like there's a lot more to the story behind what led him to kill James. 

But of course, whatever further information is out there regarding James' death, Howard won't share it, because he needs to keep it on hand for any possible changes to his sentence or something down the line. Just...ugh. 

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Sounds like she had her parents blessing. File under: WTF. 

Right?! What the hell were her parents thinking? I felt for her, too, I liked how James' parents were equally as concerned for her safety and wanted to protect her, too. 

I agree at this point the chances of finding any remnants of James are pretty slim, if not nonexistent. But it would be nice if they were able to eventually find something, even if only, like, a piece of clothing or some special item or whatever, of James. It wouldn't be enough to bury him with his brother, no, but at least it'd be some memento to hang on to. I can't imagine losing two children in such tragic ways. How eerie that James unknowingly predicted his own early death. 

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I agree with all your comments.  

I have been thinking about Homicide Howie’s girlfriend and parents.  They appeared reasonable, concerned and caring…at first.  Then, somehow, someway they turn, allow this murderer to live in their home while dating their daughter…why?  

Here’s my thought…they parents either caught them in a compromising situation or thought that they were having sex.  The only respectable option is to approve of the two of them to marry.

I am baffled why you would want your daughter to be involved with this nut job.  

It’s the only explanation I can conceive.

In the end - their daughter is married and they get to keep their status in the church.

James’ mom and dad (and stepdad) are amazing people.  

 

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I agree it's unlikely they will ever find James' remains at this point. Sad story. But the reality is that if James was hanging around with a couple of screw-ups like Howie and Reno he was probably a screw-up too. I think they were probably all drunk and high and a fight broke out. 

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'Cause if so, why wasn't there mention of the police talking to people at the barbecue?

I didn't get this either. But then Howie and Reno's stories were almost completely different so who knows where it actually happened. Howie's version tries to blame James while Reno's blames Howie so I tend to believe Reno's, except I think he was more involved than he let on.

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"Oh, gosh, I can't quite remember the bridge where I dumped his body..." with the officers years later. Bullshit, you do too remember. 

Well it's possible he was so wasted he really doesn't remember. If part of his plea deal was leading cops to the body he had no reason to pretend he couldn't remember, since he had confessed at that point. I don't know that it makes much difference anyway, with the years passing by and the flooding the remains have probably washed down river a long ways. 

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I have been thinking about Homicide Howie’s girlfriend and parents.  They appeared reasonable, concerned and caring…at first.  Then, somehow, someway they turn, allow this murderer to live in their home while dating their daughter…why?

Just based off of what little we heard from her on the recording, the girlfriend didn't seem very bright. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

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17 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

In the end - their daughter is married and they get to keep their status in the church.

I don't know of  any denomination that thinks people gain status when their daughter marries a murderer.  Remember the school had kicked him out so it's not like they think it's okay.  I also don't know any Christians  who would be shocked, much less cause some adult to  lose status in the church, because one of their kids had sex before marriage.  They might be Christians but they live in this century and probably watch TV.

 

Edited by JudyObscure · Reason: ETA deleted evidence of bad temper
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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

I don't know of  any denomination that thinks people gain status when their daughter marries a murderer.  Remember the school had kicked him out so it's not like they think it's okay.  I also don't know any Christians  who would be shocked, much less cause some adult to  lose status in the church, because one of their kids had sex before marriage.  They might be Christians but they live in this century and probably watch TV.

It's possible to teach that something is wrong without becoming hysterical when it happens.  They also teach that it's wrong to take the Lord's name in vain, but I don't think they kick girls out for saying OMG.

Many years ago, I attended a Christian college for one year, it was close to my home.  My roommate got pregnant right off the bat.  Her very strict  father was upset, but he didn't suggest she marry the guy who had been a one night stand .  Her boyfriend from back home was upset, but he still loved her and eventually married her.

I have no idea why they let her marry him.  Maybe she threatened suicide if they couldn't be together or they truly believed Howard was a changed person.  I just don't blame Christianity for it all.

You know what?  I see your point.  And thank you for challenging my original idea.

I completely forgot that they booted Homicide Howie out of the college.  

I’m so used to connecting behavior and reasons together that sometimes I need to just accept the idea “they’re nuts” and move on with my day.

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 Just when I think people can’t be that clueless, up pops a couple that encourages their daughter to go on  dating a murderer that confessed to her on tape. Not only date  him, but have him move in their home to continue doing so. We were not told whether they attended the courthouse wedding… so no idea if they supported that. 
James might not have been an upstanding citizen, but we only got Howie’s version of the story.  He didn’t deserve to be shot in the back of the head, burned, buried, exhumed, dismembered and discarded. 
The accomplice after the fact should have been taken out of the prison ASAP the first time he told his version of events and driven to whatever bridge he pointed out.

Mom needs to stop her search.  She’s not going to find him walking along riverbanks.  There is nothing left but scattered bones at the bottom of the river.  She’s obsessive and I wouldn’t be surprised to hear she’s gotten divorced soon.  What she is doing has to be hard on her marriage.  
 
Were we ever told anything about Howie’s childhood before he came to live with the bensons? Also a clueless couple. 


 

 

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I am baffled why you would want your daughter to be involved with this nut job.

I certainly wish no harm to come to that poor girl but if/when something does because of Howie, wow, I hope they don't look for much sympathy.  

Even if they believed he had changed and it was their responsibility as good Christians to support him on his effort to lead a good life, my goodness, do it from afar!!  You just encourage and assist your daughter in being with a murderer?  Can't wrap my head around it.  

This episode most definitely did not require two hours.  

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I've got to agree with just about everything said from the rest of you.   Sad all the way around.   I was saying while watching it that I wouldn't be surprised if the murdered guy's mother wound up divorced again.    I guess that I don't understand this NEED by so many people to bury their loved one's remains.   The person is gone from this plane of existence and to me, the bones (or whatever is left) isn't what is important but honoring the spirt is.   In this case it seems that both the murdered person's parents are so focused on "bringing him home" that they are caught up in this endless loop of obsession and it makes you wonder how they are living their lives.    The murderer was caught, he had a dishonest confession (but at least said that he committed the murder).    And yeah, the young girl AND her family accepting "Homicide Howie" really is a WTF head scratcher.   For one, this young woman has now yoked herself to a man who is a sociopath and will be spending some time in jail.  If he is actually in jail for 10 years, I'll be surprised (no way is he going to do the entire sentence).  And most people don't seem to come out of jail for the better.  Just weird and you have to wonder what the hell the parents are thinking if not the teenager "in luv".     

And it was really a shame that the guy who was already in jail who I agree probably had a bigger part in the murder than he was admitting to, didn't agree to help the police find the remains much sooner.   I guess that the "law" against snitching means more than actually doing the right thing.   A  two hours of really  depressing watching.  

Edited by 12catcrazy · Reason: typo
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10 hours ago, 12catcrazy said:

I guess that I don't understand this NEED by so many people to bury their loved one's remains.   The person is gone from this plane of existence and to me, the bones (or whatever is left) isn't what is important but honoring the spirt is.

That's how I feel about it too and it bothers me when, not just the family, but the show, too, keeps talking about finding James or bringing James home.  They're looking for James's body not James, so just say that. I know the mother's promise to bury James by his brother is a big issue in her mind, but please woman, they're either together in some sort of after life or neither one is aware of  anything so give it up.

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4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

know the mother's promise to bury James by his brother is a big issue in her mind, but please woman, they're either together in some sort of after life or neither one is aware of  anything so give it up.

I know. It's like people who spend years relentlessly hunting the murderer of their loved one or trying to have justice done. I understand the impulse, but if it becomes a years long obsession that ruins your relationships with living people, it's too much. And it's guaranteed NOT to bring you the kind of closure and satisfaction you think you'll get. 

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I think it’s impossible to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who had their child murdered or know how we would act. Some people , maybe for religious reasons maybe not, feel comfort in knowing where their child’s remains are and this woman wanted her two dead sons to be together. I can’t even imagine going thru something like that so her reaction doesn’t see them weird to me.

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59 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Some people , maybe for religious reasons maybe not, feel comfort in knowing where their child’s remains are and this woman wanted her two dead sons to be together. I

This is totally true. If my child disappeared I would absolutely want to find their remains for many reasons. I guess what's disturbing is when finding them becomes an obsession that starts to destroy someone's life, even many years after there's any real hope of finding anything at all, particularly when the obsession starts to harm other people. It's not that we don't feel compassion for them, but that we can see that the grief, pain and obsession are destroying the life and family they have left. 

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I didn’t see her destroying anyone’s life except perhaps her own. There are many stories on these shows about people who “never give up” and the show usually sees them as heroic . With her two sons dead she had lost everything and if other people are bothered by her wanting her sons remains maybe they could just have some compassion and keep living their own life. 

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1 hour ago, Madding crowd said:

 With her two sons dead she had lost everything and if other people are bothered by her wanting her sons remains maybe they could just have some compassion and keep living their own life. 

I might be wrong, but didn't she also have a daughter in addition to the two sons?  And she has a husband -  that kind of unending grief in a loved one can be really tough to live with.    I really hope that she and her ex-husband are in therapy because losing two children (especially one to murder) would bring almost anybody to their knees.  

I once read an interview with someone - I don't remember if is was a "medium" or a person who had a near death experience, but he said that the newly deceased was shown their life from birth to death, and they had to feel the pain and see the consequences of when they did harm to other people.   You can take this kind of stuff with a grain of salt but if it's true, you can only hope if the soul does another go-around  it will be a better person.    This probably would offer very little comfort to James' parents but Homicide Howie is going to be feeling an awful lot of anguish.  

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People grieve in different ways and I can’t imagine judging someone for not moving on in a particular way. Marriages often break up after the death of a child ( even an adult child), because the grieving parent no longer has anything to give. I have known a few people who lost an adult child including my sister and I wouldn’t judge any of them for the depression and sometimes rage they feel. 

Edited by Madding crowd
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 Just when I think people can’t be that clueless, up pops a couple that encourages their daughter to go on  dating a murderer that confessed to her on tape. Not only date  him, but have him move in their home to continue doing so.

First of all, Howie is claiming it was an accident, so maybe they believe him. Second of all, if you put on enough of a show about finding Jesus and being a "good Christian" you are always going to find people who believe you. Clearly Howie did.

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

First of all, Howie is claiming it was an accident, so maybe they believe him. Second of all, if you put on enough of a show about finding Jesus and being a "good Christian" you are always going to find people who believe you. Clearly Howie did.

Howie did not claim that he accidentally fired the gun.  He claimed he fired the gun on purpose towards the back window of the truck  without  aiming.   Even though he knew James was in the truck.  At what was close range since he was standing at the back of the truck.  That’s not an accident.  That’s deliberate endangerment.  every hunter and even the rest of us knows better than to do that.

Yes, Christians believe in forgiveness of sins.  That’s in regard to the final judgement day.  Most Christian fathers would have told Howie that he was forgiven by G*d and free to live his life but it was not forgotten by them  and to stay away from their daughter. 

I will paraphrase how  someone described forgiveness vs stupidity on  a Facebook post:  a person gets hit by a train while standing on the tracks.  You forgive the train.  Do you go stand on the tracks, hoping  the train will miss you the next time?  Howie is the train. 
 

5 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I didn’t see her destroying anyone’s life except perhaps her own. There are many stories on these shows about people who “never give up” and the show usually sees them as heroic . With her two sons dead she had lost everything and if other people are bothered by her wanting her sons remains maybe they could just have some compassion and keep living their own life. 

But she isn’t  destroying only herself.  Her husband moved them( that’s how it was stated)  from North Carolina to Texas to get her out of her own head and obsession with Howie’s social media and the search.  That didn’t disrupt his life and career?  She continues to devote  her days to her obsession and drives back to North Caroline several times a year.  Is she working?  How much time off does she get?  How expensive are the trips?  Is anyone such as her daughter and her husband even on her radar? Is there any time for them to get any quality time with her or any sort of a vacation other than searching  River banks?  

 I do have compassion for her, I just think she’s throwing away the living people that are standing right in front of her  in favor  of something that isn’t going to happen. 

and I am living my own life. I’m not telling HER this… I’m commenting on a forum about dateline episodes.  

 

Edited by mythoughtis
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I wasn’t talking about you at all, I was talking about her family. Her husband has every right to divorce her if he cannot live with the way she is processing grief. If he is supporting her financially he has the right to stop doing that as well. She obviously could use some grief therapy. But no one has the right to tell someone how they should feel or act or how quickly she should get over the death of her son. She may or may not go on vacations or do fun things. Most people eventually get better after a death but there is no blueprint as to time or how getting better looks. For some people it might mean getting out of bed and the ability to go without crying for periods of time. For others it may mean going on vacations or attending events.

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Lori Vallow stuff.

The Chandler police dept seems to be made up of gullible idiots who think soccer mom types can do no wrong. She's  smiling while her husband's body is still warm and her brother had to  blast the man with  with bullets in self-defense -- and that all makes sense to them.

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Lori's story that she actually meant to kill herself and not Larry was pretty rich. Uh huh, so you were going to kill yourself in front of Larry while he just sat there. Did you not think he would call for help or try to render aid or something? Why not just kill yourself when you are, I don't know, ALONE.

Also, if she was going to kill herself, and Larry drank her juice by mistake and then somehow fell in the water and drowned, you would think she would have then TOTALLY killed herself right after that, cuz now she has all the other reasons plus she just "accidentally" killed her husband.  

In conclusion: Bitch, please! 

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6 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Lori's story that she actually meant to kill herself and not Larry was pretty rich. Uh huh, 

God, seriously, when she started in on that nonsense, I actually shouted at the TV, "You are a piece of work, you psycho bitch!" I lost count of how many times my mom and I rolled our eyes at all the stunts she pulled throughout this episode. When they said she took an Alford plea, I was sitting here like, "So help me, if she gets by with her shit again...". 

But nope. She got life. And I cackled. It seemed clear the judge was as done with her crap as everyone else was. 

I've said it before and I'll say it again, thank god for stupid criminals who actively search out ways to kill someone online.. Why they continue to do this, I don't know, but it sure helps make it a hell of a lot easier to gather evidence when the time comes. I love how she thought she was so smart with these fake companies and invoices and stories and whatnot...and then it was all these little details that finally tripped her up and got her caught, both with her embezzlement and with the murder. Here she is trying to Google ways to help ensure that Larry drowns in a way that nobody can find his body...and yet he winds up in shallower waters and washes up on the shore shortly after anyway. That's the universe sending a message right there, that is. 

I feel for her daughters who got sucked into her scam. That one lady saying there was a special place in hell for someone who does that, she's not wrong. And now they have to clean up her mess. I also loved how Larry's son had virtually no filter when talking about her, either. And rightly so. 

Thank goodness for that guy who had personal experience with taking Benadryl, too. He proved quite helpful in figuring out how she likely drugged Larry. 

Yeah. Just a crazy story. Some people, I swear....

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I disliked Lori the minute I heard her little baby voice on the 911 call, then I full on hated her when her daughter said she had forced her six little girls to tell their father he had to leave because he wasn't good enough.  After that it was pure pleasure watching this horrible woman get caught and sentenced.  My favorite kind of Dateline.

I did get a good laugh when the police went to Lori's cabin with a warrant and she asked if she could reschedule because she felt drained. 

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Am I the only one that couldn't get past Lori making her daughters kick their father out of the house?

Why did they stay with her and love her after finding out she was having an affair and then emotionally manipulated them into turning on their father?  

I was actually rather annoyed that got gloss over so quickly

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1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Am I the only one that couldn't get past Lori making her daughters kick their father out of the house?

Why did they stay with her and love her after finding out she was having an affair and then emotionally manipulated them into turning on their father?  

I was actually rather annoyed that got gloss over so quickly

Lori is a sociopath or some kind of personality disorder.  The daughter still doesn't seem to grasp that fact but is a bit further along then the other family members who still support her.  It's probably too complicated for Keith to get into in just two hour.

What bothers me more is the lady in the prior episode who went to the friends house and has the audacity to claim she knew something bad had happened inside and didn't want to find out.  Then also admits she didn't call the cops.  If I was one of her 'friends' after seeing her on Dateline, I'd make a note not to call her if I ever needed any help.

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10 minutes ago, LEILANI2 said:

Lori is a sociopath or some kind of personality disorder. 

I know the show couldn't delve into Lori's background because of time constraints and the flow of the storyline--but I was curious about her childhood and early life.

I know her sister helped her when she was a fugitive; however, there was no mention of her parents.  Sociopaths are not created overnight. 

 

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One thing I didn't understand was something that was said at the end, that part of Larry's estate was used to pay back money that Lori stole? Why would that be? Also Larry was only worth 2-3million dollars, hardly the very wealthy man that Dateline made him out to be for two hours. 

But yes, Lori was a piece of work. And not nearly as smart as she thought she was, as it turns out. 

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5 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

But yes, Lori was a piece of work.

It took her 2 hours to call 911 when Larry fell in the water because she didnt have her phone? She finally found his phone under a blanket ? It took 2 hours? The damn boat wasn't that big. I could have found the phone quicker on the Queen Mary.

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

One thing I didn't understand was something that was said at the end, that part of Larry's estate was used to pay back money that Lori stole? Why would that be?

The house proceeds was probably the one thing that was on her name also.

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4 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

The damn boat wasn't that big. I could have found the phone quicker on the Queen Mary.

 

Yep, and she wants us to believe that on that tiny boat her husband drank the poisoned green stuff without her noticing.  It was 20 degrees out and they were huddled side by side in the cabin!

I'll bet all those bruises on her legs were from the railings banging against her as she struggled to heft her husband over the side.

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19 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I disliked Lori the minute I heard her little baby voice on the 911 call.

I did get a good laugh when the police went to Lori's cabin with a warrant and she asked if she could reschedule because she felt drained. 

It totally reminded me of something Kristin Chenoweth's character (Lavinia Peck-Foster) would have done season 2 of Trial and Error. I really miss that show.

 

happy steven boyer GIF by NBC

Edited by QQQQ
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You all convinced me to watch the Lori /Larry story. Yikes! What is it about women named Lori? And how on earth does someone have 6 children, a husband, a church life, a job, and still have enough energy to carry on a string of secret affairs? I swear she must have been fuelled by evil. 

Edited by Melina22
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9 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

 

The house proceeds was probably the one thing that was on her name also.

That is what confused me, when Dateline used the term "estate". Hubby and I own our house jointly, so ownership automatically goes to the surviving spouse, and does not become part of the the estate of the spouse that passed. Maybe Dateline was just being lazy in the use of the term estate, or laws are different than where I live? Or maybe Lori was left part of his estate, though if I were Larry's children I certainly would have fought having Lori profit from killing Larry. 

1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

It totally reminded me of something Kristin Chenoweth's character (Lavinia Peck-Foster) would have done season season 2 of Trial and Error. I really miss that show.

 

happy steven boyer GIF by NBC

I loved that show!! The writing was so clever, and the acting fabulous. I was so sad when it was cancelled. I suppose too that with it lasting only two seasons there is no where to see reruns? I found I had to watch each episode at least twice to catch all the funny references, and cleverly placed props. 

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1 hour ago, QQQQ said:

It totally reminded me of something Kristin Chenoweth's character (Lavinia Peck-Foster) would have done season season 2 of Trial and Error. I really miss that show.

 

happy steven boyer GIF by NBC

Yes!

I miss this show, too. It was hilarious. 

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6 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I'll bet all those bruises on her legs were from the railings banging against her as she struggled to heft her husband over the side.

That's the only thing I can think of.

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On 10/9/2021 at 12:34 PM, TVbitch said:

Lori's story that she actually meant to kill herself and not Larry was pretty rich. Uh huh, so you were going to kill yourself in front of Larry while he just sat there. Did you not think he would call for help or try to render aid or something? Why not just kill yourself when you are, I don't know, ALONE.

Over the years, several people I know have tragically committed suicide, or attempted to, using pills. Without exception they did it somewhere where they wouldn't be found until it was too late. Fortunately, some were found anyway and saved, but others weren't. One wasn't found for two years. 😢

It's just ludicrous to believe Lori planned to kill herself with pills in a tiny boat IN FRONT OF HER HUSBAND. It would have been different if she was going to use a gun, but Benedryl? Seriously? No wonder she was found guilty. 

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Like others I was mystified right at the beginning by the so-called grand love story between this supposedly nice guy Larry and Lori, who employed her children to dump her husband. Did Larry not know about that?  

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