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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:I've always found this confusing... if someone is so evil and unempathetic that they'd plan mass murder, wouldn't they be way too narcissistic to kill themselves? And yet apparently not. It's almost impossible to understand. 

Always having to have the last word is also narcissistic.  My thoughts were similar to yours, until that occurred to me.  Wreaking havoc and tragedy, and not having to face the consequences.

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On rewatch, Blair (Kathleen’s daughter) was pretty disparaging about Pete for all of her interview until the very end. I know they had to have her answer a certain way to keep up the “mystery” but looking back, and knowing she knew the truth the entire interview, it was kind of crappy of her to talk about Pete’s supposed drug use, how he was completely absent from his father’s life (which was later proven false when we heard Pete had his father legally removed from Kathleen’s care), that he continuously harassed her mother, and on and on. I’m hoping it was heavily edited and there was a lot of “my mom told me” instead of how it was presented. During the entire interview she was crying and I really thought it was because of her mom dying, but I guess it could have been over sadness for Pete and his family? 

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4 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I've always found this confusing... if someone is so evil and unempathetic that they'd plan mass murder, wouldn't they be way too narcissistic to kill themselves? And yet apparently not. It's almost impossible to understand. 

That's hard for me to get my head around, too.  If she was manipulative and brazen enough to be stealing from her credit union, writing checks to herself from the old man's account, and telling wild stories to everyone in her orbit, I would think she would believe that she could lie her way out of any charges she would face in the future.  

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I honestly think Blair's just overall an emotional wreck. I don't believe this is something that just started when her mother died. I wondered why she was in a blanket for the entire interview? I don't think she's well. 

 

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

I would think she would believe that she could lie her way out of any charges she would face in the future.  

Exactly. So baffling. 

Edited by Melina22
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I think the daughter was told about Pete from her mother who likely disparaged him.  And then her grandmother said that Pete killed her mother.  And then the cops believed her and didn't investigate anything further. So over a decade, she has this image in her head of Pete killing not only her mother but her beloved stepfather. 

Now she's being told her mother not only killed herself and framed Pete but also killed her beloved stepfather.  And that would be....a lot.  I don't think she was deliberately malicious but rather she might still be trying to untangle truth from fiction and still believes some of her mother's lies. 

So I do feel for her because unpacking everything would be a lot.  She might never do it.

 

Edited by Irlandesa
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17 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

So I do feel for her because unpacking everything would be a lot.  She might never do it.

 

This is very true. Odds are she's a victim of long-term gaslighting. No wonder she's so confused. It's hard to quantify how much damage that woman did to so many people. 

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I saw this differently. I was glad she asked this question. A pet peeve of mine (that's not really the right word but I can't think of anything else) is how lightly many people seem to take long prison sentences. Or even short ones! They say things like, "They don't have to work. They get fed 3 times a day and take courses? That's not punishment!" Imagine being locked in your bedroom for a month. 6 months. 10 years. How do you even get up every day? What's your purpose? 

Pete seemed to welcome the opportunity to express how futile his life felt, to the point he'd decided that 10 years was his limit. It was heartrending to listen to, but also very valuable. 

That's a fair point, The experience is relevant, but the way she asked the question was just too leading because it was just too obvious. 

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On rewatch, Blair (Kathleen’s daughter) was pretty disparaging about Pete for all of her interview until the very end.

I sort of wondered if there were two different sets of interviews, like before he was finally released and after. 

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On 4/22/2021 at 10:07 AM, iMonrey said:
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I sort of wondered if there were two different sets of interviews, like before he was finally released and after. 

She was in the same outfit the entire time. Just with a blanket type material jacket for part of it. I found her almost hero worship of her Mom hard to fathom given what finally  came out in the last half hour of the program.  How could she be that blind about her Mom? I was suspicious the minute I heard that the elderly man had left her money and a house. 
 

Edited by mythoughtis
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The Necklace : the murderer in this episode had one of the weakest motives I've ever seen! Bizarre. And yet I'm sure she did it. 

You had to laugh at the defence lawyers: "Sure, our client bought cement and potting soil the day the victim disappeared, only to be found buried in the woods under cement and potting soil, after being taking there by our client and never seen again, but it's a totally different kind of cement! Our client is totally innocent! This is a witch hunt! "

Watching Ashley's calm demeanor in the interrogation room, after being told she was suspected of murder and police were searching her house, I thought that I would act way guiltier and more rattled if I got accused of not following the Covid floor arrows the right way at my grocery store. (And how weird is 2021 that everyone knows what Covid floor arrows are? 😁

ETA. Am I the only one who can't see the name of who is making the posts now? It's obscured by white, ever since the upgrade.) 

Edited by Melina22
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24 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

ETA. Am I the only one who can't see the name of who is making the posts now? It's obscured by white, ever since the upgrade.) 

I can see the names, it's the big avatars that throw me, my own scares me.

 

Ashley was such a weird piece of work.  Ripping off her own family business,  burning it down,   killing Taylor for her money when the risk of getting caught was so high.  What a sad and stupid waste of a young mother's life. 

I also couldn't understand why a woman who looked like Ashley would be  paying some guy for sex in the form of $8000 gifts. 

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I just loved how Ashley told the investigators she and Taylor had gone to one town when cell phone records showed they went to one in the complete opposite direction. Again, people, investigators will check this stuff at some point. That's kind of their job. It amazes me how so many criminals don't think about that aspect of things. 

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59 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

That's kind of their job. It amazes me how so many criminals don't think about that aspect of things. 

But didn't they say Ashley herself once worked for CSI? Unbelievable! 

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2 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

But didn't they say Ashley herself once worked for CSI? Unbelievable! 

Yes! Between that and what Taylor did for a living, that makes her behavior all the more dumb. 

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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

ETA. Am I the only one who can't see the name of who is making the posts now? It's obscured by white, ever since the upgrade.) 

I can’t see names, either. 

I was rolling my eyes over Ashley’s gigolo. Did he say that bike cost $30K? And wasn’t she also married? She was quite the odd duck

 

 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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13 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

She was quite the odd duck

If I had a dime for every time I say that about people on this show!!! I mean that exact phrase! 

 

13 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I can’t see names, either. 

I'm glad it's not just me. I'm finding it bizarrely annoying. Hope they fix it. I know I should report it but I'm too busy watching TV and complaining 😁

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It’s been a while since we didn’t hear about a victim “lighting up the room” or being the best most beautiful creature ever. I think the biggest compliment we heard was from the ex, “she was hot and she knew it.”  What?! 
 

Taylor seemed like kind of a mess, but she did not deserve what happened to her. Her poor son. 

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5 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The Necklace : the murderer in this episode had one of the weakest motives I've ever seen! Bizarre. And yet I'm sure she did it. 

You had to laugh at the defence lawyers: "Sure, our client bought cement and potting soil the day the victim disappeared, only to be found buried in the woods under cement and potting soil, after being taking there by our client and never seen again, but it's a totally different kind of cement! Our client is totally innocent! This is a witch hunt! "

 

The defense lawyers were hilarious! I was waiting for them to explain how Taylor just happened to end up dead at the edge of Ashely's aunt's property. What are the odds of that? Better odds winning a lottery. 

As others have said, it mind boggling that Ashley worked  at CSI, but made pretty much every mistake in the book. She could be the poster killer for what-not-to-do if you want to murder someone and not get caught. Don't murder someone and leave them at a relative's property. Don't first call your relative who lives on the property to make sure he won't be there. Don't lie about where you were to the police. Don't keep your cell phone on so your movements can be traced. Ditto with the cell phone of the person you are murdering. Don't tell cops that your friend called an Uber when it can be proven she didn't. Don't buy products to bury said friend from a store that will have you on video purchasing those products. Geez, is there anything Ashley missed on the what-not-to-do list? 

 

 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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2 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I can’t see names, either. 

I was rolling my eyes over Ashley’s gigolo. Did he say that bike cost $30K? And wasn’t she also married? She was quite the odd duck

 

 

No it was a boat, I think. But yes they said $30K

Just now, GussieK said:

 

Also she was captured by the classic big box store camera. Wrong kind of cement, my foot. 

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Plus, that was the UGLIEST "boy toy" in the world!  Bad taste in f-buddies, girlie.

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3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I'm glad it's not just me. I'm finding it bizarrely annoying. Hope they fix it. I know I should report it but I'm too busy watching TV and complaining 😁

I just found the Pet Peeves thread.  Fun!

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5 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

 

I was rolling my eyes over Ashley’s gigolo. Did he say that bike cost $30K? And wasn’t she also married? 

No, girl! The bike was $8k. The boat was $30k. Couldn't you see he was worth it 😜

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This was a good episode. Ashley was an idiot, especially for a CSI. I have no doubt she did it and, I'm glad the jury reached the same conclusion.

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12 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The Necklace : the murderer in this episode had one of the weakest motives I've ever seen! Bizarre. And yet I'm sure she did it. 

You had to laugh at the defence lawyers: "Sure, our client bought cement and potting soil the day the victim disappeared, only to be found buried in the woods under cement and potting soil, after being taking there by our client and never seen again, but it's a totally different kind of cement! Our client is totally innocent! This is a witch hunt! "

Watching Ashley's calm demeanor in the interrogation room, after being told she was suspected of murder and police were searching her house, I thought that I would act way guiltier and more rattled if I got accused of not following the Covid floor arrows the right way at my grocery store. (And how weird is 2021 that everyone knows what Covid floor arrows are? 😁

ETA. Am I the only one who can't see the name of who is making the posts now? It's obscured by white, ever since the upgrade.) 

I can't see the names either. The poster above is correct. The huge avatars and notifications are very annoying 

 

 

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37 minutes ago, Court said:

I can't see the names either. The poster above is correct. The huge avatars and notifications are very annoying 

Oh good, I'm not the only one. Is there somewhere to report it? I checked the Bugs thread but it's really old 

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I'm confused about the $100,000 she withdrew from the joint account that was 'hers' from her accident but then they only tracked the $39k to Ashley, what happened to the rest of it?

And the judge asked her to show up with $25K not the full $100,000.

Edited by Leilani
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It's been about a week since the 'updated' the forum and a GIGANITC NOTFICATION pops up that covers 2/3rd of the screen. How is it not fixed by now or just turned back to pre hack.

Edited by Leilani
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Someone in another thread said they knew and were working on it. 

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11 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Geez, is there anything Ashley missed on the what-not-to-do list?

She also willingly sat there for days/hours of interrogation giving a  story she knew would be proven false,  and handed her cell phone right over so the cops could start analyzing it, when she knew they could track locations from it! AND she kept hounding the police to see if they had any leads on the case yet.  What in god's name was she thinking?! 

One thing they didn't say was whether it was Asley texting the girlfriend about "needing a couple days away to think" cuz it seems to me Taylor was dead at that point and Ashley had her  phone. 

Honestly, everyone in this story seemed off. 

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At the beginning of the episode they mentioned Taylor disappeared just before Hurricane Irma hit. I’m thinking that’s what washed away any DNA evidence at the scene, not anything Ashley the former CSI agent did. 
 

I was a bit morbidly curious that they only found bones at the burial site, just 6 weeks after the murder. I guess I thought it took longer to decompose that much. 

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I would never set up a joint account with a friend when it was only my money, just too much risk. I think the editing was off on this one. They spent too much time on Cassandra, then Taylor’s police background and then two seconds on the boyfriend Ashley spent the money on. I would have liked to know more about him and how long they were seeing each other, did he know Taylor well and things like that. 

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All I could think of when looking at the boyfriend for whom she purchased the boat and motorcycle was that he must have one magic penis.

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54 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

I was a bit morbidly curious that they only found bones at the burial site, just 6 weeks after the murder. I guess I thought it took longer to decompose that much. 

Yes! Just a skull after such a short time? That seemed weird. (Not that I have any experience in this area whatsoever other than years of TV watching) 

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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Yes! Just a skull after such a short time? That seemed weird. (Not that I have any experience in this area whatsoever other than years of TV watching) 

Regarding the body decomposing to bones in just six weeks, I wondered that myself. When I googled I found that bodies can decompose in as little as 3 weeks, depending on weather, heat, humidity, etc. So I guess since Taylor died in Florida in early September, heat and humidity would both play a factor. 

Which reminds me of another not-to-do thing to add to the list: do not leave one-of-a-kind jewelry on the person you have murdered. Taylor's bullet necklace pretty much pointed to the body being hers right away, though of course they would still confirm it with DNA. But way to wave a red flag, Ashley. 

I kept thinking that Shailene Woodley would make a great Ashley......

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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24 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

When I googled I found that bodies can decompose in as little as 3 weeks, depending on weather, heat, humidity, etc.

Yep. If I ever get arrested for anything, I’m telling my defense attorney to call all of you so you can help explain my years of Google history! 

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On 4/24/2021 at 3:06 PM, Morrigan2575 said:

Ashley was an idiot, especially for a CSI

I have a bad memory but did they say she was a CSI or worked for  CSI.  Maybe she was just a janitor (just an example ) in the CSI building ? Dateline tends to fake us out like that .

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17 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Regarding the body decomposing to bones in just six weeks, I wondered that myself. When I googled I found that bodies can decompose in as little as 3 weeks, depending on weather, heat, humidity, etc. So I guess since Taylor died in Florida in early September, heat and humidity would both play a factor. 

That makes sense. Yeah, the hurricane that hit after she disappeared likely helped speed up the process a bit, too. I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was a bit surprised by how rapidly that happened! 

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55 minutes ago, MsJamieDornan said:

I have a bad memory but did they say she was a CSI or worked for  CSI.  Maybe she was just a janitor (just an example ) in the CSI building ? Dateline tends to fake us out like that .

Good point. They kept saying she worked for CSI. 

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19 hours ago, Lsk02 said:

Yep. If I ever get arrested for anything, I’m telling my defense attorney to call all of you so you can help explain my years of Google history! 

That's why you should always add "FOR RESEARCH" at the end of your true crime-related Google searches.  You can always say you were writing a book ;)

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I'm confused about the $100,000 she withdrew from the joint account that was 'hers' from her accident but then they only tracked the $39k to Ashley, what happened to the rest of it?

And the judge asked her to show up with $25K not the full $100,000.

Quote

I'm confused about the $100,000 she withdrew from the joint account that was 'hers' from her accident but then they only tracked the $39k to Ashley, what happened to the rest of it?

And the judge asked her to show up with $25K not the full $100,000.

I have a hard time believing she still had the full $100K by the time of the divorce. It had probably been whittled down to around $50K which is why the judge ordered her to fork over $25K. And then it turned out to be only $39K. 

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I have a bad memory but did they say she was a CSI or worked for  CSI.  Maybe she was just a janitor (just an example ) in the CSI building ? Dateline tends to fake us out like that .

Yeah, because if she actually worked CSI that doesn't speak highly of their employees. But they did say she was a cop so she had some involvement higher than janitorial I assume.

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On 4/24/2021 at 9:18 PM, Leilani said:

I'm confused about the $100,000 she withdrew from the joint account that was 'hers' from her accident but then they only tracked the $39k to Ashley, what happened to the rest of it?

And the judge asked her to show up with $25K not the full $100,000.

The police found a cashier’s check for $19,000 in her name at Cassandra’s house. So there is some more of the $100k.  

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On 4/25/2021 at 11:33 AM, Lsk02 said:

I was a bit morbidly curious that they only found bones at the burial site, just 6 weeks after the murder. I guess I thought it took longer to decompose that much. 

I’m following a case in PA of a murdered Amish girl and they just found her body after 10 months. They did the autopsy and knew the specific cause of death very quickly. I thought she’d be just bones and they wouldn’t be able to tell. Suffocation would be very hard to detect and (sorry if it’s gross) there wouldn’t be much tissue left on her neck to know about a knife wound.

 

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I know that Dateline has paraded a bunch of bizarre people across our televisions over the years, but Kelly and Tucker have to rank up there as the most “bizarriest”.  That’s right. I had to make up a new word to describe those two.  Well, throw Tucker’s dad in the mix too.  I wonder what the other two kids are like?

Edited by MooCat Pretzel
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Kelly has to be one of THE most exhausting people I've ever seen on TV, mother of God. I was worn out just watching her in the interrogation clips. And Tucker clearly takes after her mom in that regard. I cannot deal with people who just seem to constantly surround themselves with nothing but drama. 

That realtor's story about being there the day of the shooting. Holy shit, yeah, talk about your prime horror movie scenario. When she got in her car after leaving, I just imagined her thinking, "If this car doesn't start, so help me, God...". Thank goodness she was able to get out of there, though I feel for her with the trauma she's still dealing with from being witness to all of that. 

And then the cell phone video that actually recorded the whole thing. I can't even... I love that Tucker didn't even think to shut off the cell phone after that, so that we could hear her upset over the fact that Shane wasn't dead yet. 

And in regards to the shooting, I always love it when the people with the guns are the ones who claim they were threatened and in danger. Well, let's see here, you're still alive, and you have a weapon, meanwhile, the other person, who's unarmed, as Shane was, is dead. But sure. Yeah. You were totally the one in danger. Also amazing how this young girl who supposedly had little to no experience with guns was able to get a perfect shot right into his chest in such a chaotic moment. When Tucker was describing Shane supposedly reaching his hand around the door, my mom kept wondering why they didn't just slam the door on his hand or wrist. At the very least, they could've injured him enough to where he'd be distracted by that and they could escape or something.

But of course, as the video showed, that's clearly not what happened, so... If I were the people who knew Tucker, I'd be a little nervous about her eventual release. 

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Dad was a piece of work too.  Clearly he’s still feeling the sting of Hollywood rejection by his over-the-top emoting, poor sap couldn’t even muster one tear when talking about his shining star Tucker and her plight 
 

And if I were one of the other two children I’d be more than a little irritated that here I am, living my live as best I could...not killing anyone...not having Keith Morrison investigate my background and dear old dad keeps going on and on about how (no slight to his other two children) Tucker, his first was so special. 
 

Yeah dad. For Fathers Day this year...go pound sand. 

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Has anyone listened to the podcast? I might listen if it has additional info, but if not, I probably won't. 

I'm curious to know more about what turned Kelly into... Kelly, and what actually went on Kelly's marriage that led to the divorce. Obviously, being raised by someone like her, combined with all the attention for being "special" really warped Win/Tucker/Aisling's personality. No amount of jail time is going to change that. 

Tucker's story reminded me so much of various male and female celebrities over the last few years, and how they seem so charming and charismatic, yet you constantly hear stories of them throwing tantrums, berating staff and family, and generally being monsters. But then you see them smiling and appearing human, and think, "Could the stories even be true?"

Tucker is the poster child for this kind of behaviour. Imagine her, but with vastly more fame, power and influence! Yikes. 

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42 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I'm curious to know more about what turned Kelly into... Kelly, and what actually went on Kelly's marriage that led to the divorce. Obviously, being raised by someone like her, combined with all the attention for being "special" really warped Win/Tucker/Aisling's personality. No amount of jail time is going to change that. 

Agreed. It was so weird to see the videos of Tucker as a four year old kid, doing cute little kid performances, and knowing she ultimately turned into....this. It was also wild to see all the books that she and her mom and dad had written, some of which turned into TV movies or were popular YA reads. Imagine realizing that the person whose work you're reading was involved in a murder. It's like the whole Anne Perry thing. 

When they were talking about how Tucker wasn't happy with her mom's testimony, I was like, "Well, no, of course not, she pretty much threw her daughter under the bus and tried to distance herself as much as possible." And then she's manipulating her own mom as well, to the point that she's not upset that her own son was shot and killed. Kelly seems to have this very twisted sort of control over a lot of people. It's a miracle anyone in that family managed to get away and distance themselves from her. 

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I wasn’t sure I was going to get through the show because there was so much overacting and quirky theater types in the beginning.  All the acting looked bad and everyone was saying how good “Tucker” was.  I didn’t see it, but clearly I’m not a thespian.  Also, I was distracted with what little we saw of the movie because all the actresses looked so much alike.  

Love Keith, and I know they said the uncle had a history of drug use, but was it necessary to say the friend who went to the house with the uncle, who gave him CPR, died of a drug overdose?  Just say he died.  Dude was just there to support his friend.

Also, that poor realtor.  I think I would’ve been out when they started arguing. I can’t believe she was brave enough to ask for them to give her the gun. 


 

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