Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
halgia

All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

Recommended Posts

I told my husband about the long blond strands and he immediately went into his mousey woman voice, "She already had her collar on."  Now he's improvising, "We'll only make her do things she doesn't want to do."

His joke: What's the difference between a sadist and a masochist?

The masochist says, "Beat me! Beat me!"

The sadist says, "Nooo, nooo."

We liked this a little too much.

Edited by JudyObscure
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post

Quote

This Master Bob story was new to me!  I immediately thought that Keith Morrison should have been the reporter on this one, because he always snags the salacious ones!  Dennis Murphy and his "do I really want to know?" was humorous in the midst of what info was going to come out!

Dennis kind of looked like he was getting off on the description of the sex dungeon, frankly. And the show made it seem much more glamorous than it was by showing some sort of stock footage or movie set. The police video of the actual "dungeon" showed it to be nothing more than a dingy little basement room.

Quote

When Joe recanted his police statement and took sole responsibility for the crime I was shocked. Then when the judge pointed out that Joe's new statement would blow his original deal, he recanted his recanting. That gave me pause. Joe will clearly make up testimony if it suits him. I do think Bob hired Joe to do it, but I can't be sure about Bob being present when it happened.

I don't buy the hitman's story for one minute. I think he was perfectly willing to murder for money and once he knew he was going to be thrown under the bus he immediately started playing the victim. I call bullshit.

Not that I think Big Bob was innocent. You could tell he was guilty right from the start. He was just a little too chipper during his formal interview at the police station one day after his wife's body was found.

Quote

I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him. 

Kevin Dunn.

  • Like 4
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

I am loving all of these casting suggestions. I am trying to think of someone to play Jane, but can only come up with Allison Janney. But I think she would be too tall to play Jane. 

Master Bob's attorney said that he had a "tortured existence" in his last few years of life before his death in 2020. I wonder if she used those words on purpose? Pretty ironic, not to mention funny. Seems like that would be Master Bob's idea of heaven? But I guess not if he was on the receiving end. Karma, baby. 

  • Like 6
  • Laugh 2

Share this post


Link to post

Oh come on, people! Stephen Root is the obvious choice for the lead.

 

 

stephen-root-barry.jpg

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The police video of the actual "dungeon" showed it to be nothing more than a dingy little basement room.

Yes it was soooo tacky, grungy and depressing. Yuck. 

 

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am loving all of these casting suggestions

Me too! Who knew there were so many doughy actors? 😁

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post

On 4/11/2021 at 12:15 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

Sorry, I wasn't clear about my comment regarding Bob's kids cutting him out of their lives. Bob did not participate in BDSM as a loving partner with his wife. He cheated on his wife, and participated with strangers, and with his long time mistress. So ya, if he was my dad treating my mother than way, I would have no respect for him and no reason to let him be a part of my life. As an adult of course, as if I were still a minor I wouldn't have much choice, but would treat him with disdain and a cold shoulder. And that is even without the lack of respect he appeared to have for the other women he participated in BDSM with.

And yes, I have heard that BSDM done correctly involves respect, etc. Just don't see it myself. There are plenty of ways to have an exciting non "vanilla" sex life without BDSM.  To each his own, I guess. 

To the suggestions in the above posts regarding casting picks, I love it! Eric Stonestreet would be a great Master Bob. As would Bob from Schitt's Creek - lol.  Also I was trying to think of Gary Busy's name - could picture his face but could not remember his name for the life of me. 

I’m rather vanilla myself, but I’ve read a lot on the topic when members of the BDSM community were outraged by how inaccurate the 50 Shades books were.  From what I’ve learned, spouses who aren’t into the kink, often allow their husband/wife to do their thing in dungeons. Otherwise the marriage is a tragic mismatch. 
 

I myself am put off by the word “dungeon”, as well as the fact that Masters often seem to look like Bob. Lol. 

  • Like 4
  • Laugh 4

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, AryasMum said:

I’m rather vanilla myself, but I’ve read a lot on the topic when members of the BDSM community were outraged by how inaccurate the 50 Shades books were.  From what I’ve learned, spouses who aren’t into the kink, often allow their husband/wife to do their thing in dungeons. Otherwise the marriage is a tragic mismatch. 
 

I myself am put off by the word “dungeon”, as well as the fact that Masters often seem to look like Bob. Lol. 

The funny thing is, there is a huge range of sexual preferences between vanilla, and BDSM. I think likely the majority of the population falls somewhere in between. 

I never read the 50 Shades books, or saw the movie. (Was there more than one?). I did find your comment that spouses who are not into BDSM often allowed their significant other to participate, because otherwise the marriage is a tragic mismatch, interesting. To me, that would make the marriage a tragic mismatch. And is a spouse who wants to participate in BDSM any different from a spouse who wants to have multiple affairs, or one night stands? The BDSM aspect certainly does not preclude someone from getting seriously involved with another participant. After all, that is apparently the reason Jane is dead. 

It does seem like most Masters look like Bob - lol. I assume BDSM must involve blindfolds and/or masks, as I can't imagine getting turned on by someone that ugly and doughy. 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
  • Like 3
  • Laugh 6

Share this post


Link to post
54 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The funny thing is, there is a huge range of sexual preferences between vanilla, and BDSM. I think likely the majority of the population falls somewhere in between. 

I never read the 50 Shades books, or saw the movie. (Was there more than one?). I did find your comment that spouses who are not into BDSM often allowed their significant other to participate, because otherwise the marriage is a tragic mismatch, interesting. To me, that would make the marriage a tragic mismatch. And is a spouse who wants to participate in BDSM any different from a spouse who wants to have multiple affairs, or one night stands? The BDSM aspect certainly does not preclude someone from getting seriously involved with another participant. After all, that is apparently the reason Jane is dead. 

It does seem like most Masters look like Bob - lol. I assume BDSM must involve blindfolds and/or masks, as I can't imagine getting turned on by someone that ugly and doughy. 

Unfortunately, there were three books and three movies. 
 

I think there is a difference, because Doms and subs really crave that power imbalance. At least from what I’ve read.  They need that kink in their lives. 🤷‍♀️

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/10/2021 at 4:59 PM, Melina22 said:

Great post. You make the case that Joe probably had an IQ several points higher than Master Bob. 

Rachel said something like, "First he was a widower. Then he wasn't a widower, he was getting a divorce..." I can only assume she ignored the forest of red flags due to his stellar looks and sparkling personality. (Unlike the proposed second woman who after she spent 2 days with him in person was like"NOPE!" 😁

I wonder if Rachel has a certain personality type that just gives in and accepts any behavior or contradictory explanations from a “master.” (Honestly, if I were into this and sought out a master who turned out to be Bob, I’d be bummed. I would need him to look like Jason Momoa or someone.)

Apparently they haven’t heard of the amazing new invention called a burner phone. I know this happened awhile back but I don’t think the crime predated burners. 

Edited by Tabbygirl521
  • Laugh 5

Share this post


Link to post

44 minutes ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

Danny DeVito

Excellent burn 😁

(Sorry Danny. You can't help being short) 

Edited by Melina22
  • Like 2
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

Oh, god, the ending to tonight's episode...:(. My stomach started sinking with the way they talked about Pete's optimism about his future towards the end there, and then...that news. As if the whole thing about him telling his wife to just divorce him, and seeing to it that his grandkids didn't know he was in prison, and his thoughts of suicide, weren't heartbreaking enough. That's cruel, universe. That's just fucking cruel.

Note to self: never rely on the police force in this town, because holy shit, it's appalling how badly that investigation was handled. How the HELL do you have stuff available to test for gunshot residue and not test it for twelve years? How do you not think to try and make a case that hinges on more concrete evidence beyond a phone call, made late at night, without doing more investigating to make sure the person Kathleen claimed had been there actually was there? How the hell were the police allowed to drag two children down to the police station the day they arrested their dad, NOT tell the rest of the family where they were for the longest time, leaving said family members to frantically call and drive around town looking for them, and interrogate two kids under the age of eighteen without a parent present? Just...how? How do supposed professionals bungle things this badly? 

And then finding him guilty on Kathleen's death, but not her husband's? WTF?

My mom found the whole thing with Kathleen calling family instead of 911 odd right off the bat, too. That, and she also pointed out that if Pete's beef was with her, it seems weird that she was only shot once, while her husband had multiple wounds. I could see killing the husband to get him out of the way so you can get to your target, or even if, say, you think he had some role helping his wife to take money from your dad, or benefitting from it somehow. That would make sense.

But yeah, if his beef was with Kathleen in particular, if he were going to kill her, he would want to make absolutely sure she' was dead. He would focus all of his anger and his overkill on her, not her husband. 

Such a strange, awful, tragic case. I am glad, at least, that Pete was able to finally be free in the end and enjoy some time with his family. Just wish he'd been able to have more of it. 

  • Like 13
  • Sad 7

Share this post


Link to post

Tonight's episode may have been the most upsetting case I have ever seen on Dateline. Right away when they said that Kathleen called her mother rather than 911, I said to my husband that Kathleen was lying. And the family member that did call 911 said that Kathleen said that Pete had a gun and was going to kill her husband and then her. But he didn't have a gun. Why would you go to someone's house to kill them, and hope that you found a gun there to use? And if you aren't going to call 911, at least run out of the house rather than stay to be killed. I didn't believe the phone call for a minute. 

So much missed by the police, and hidden by the prosecutor. He really should be in jail, disbarring (and who knows if that will happen) isn't enough. I do give credit to Kathleen's daughter for realizing that Pete did not kill her mother. I am sure she likely feels some guilt as well as she would have inherited money that should have gone to Pete.

Unfortunately I think his defense lawyer in his first two trials was no that strong. She could have shown pics of the bedroom window that 300lb Pete could not have climbed out of. She could nave pointed out that the 911 caller said that Kathleen said Pete had a gun, when he didn't. There were several things that she could have said to discredit the prosecution. And most of all she should have put Pete on the stand. As he said himself, what would be his motive in killing Kathleen when he could not win a court case if she was dead?

I was just gutted in the end to hear that Pete had died so soon after being released. I really hope his family wins a big settlement for wrongful conviction. Sadly though it won't bring their husband/father/grandfather back. I am sure all the stress he suffered in the last 13 plus years contributed to his death. 

  • Like 13
  • Sad 5

Share this post


Link to post
17 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I do give credit to Kathleen's daughter for realizing that Pete did not kill her mother. I am sure she likely feels some guilt as well as she would have inherited money that should have gone to Pete.

Yeah, I felt for her, too. That'd be tough information to have to reconcile, especially while you continue to mourn the loss of your parents. 

(I did find it a bit amusing, though, when she was talking about how she felt bad for his family, and Morales was like, "Pete's family?" I couldn't help thinking, "No, the random family that lives down the street.")

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post

Kathleen was really an evil woman.  She hurt so many people.  She was stealing from Pete's father while mistreating him.  She stole from her other job.  She framed Pete.  She killed her husband.  She left her family in distress.  She was just evil. 

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

You all have expressed my feelings so well.  

I was interested in the new DA’s program to look at potential wrong convictions.  Not all who say they are innocent actually are but if nothing else it does give a chance for those who are to have their claims heard.

One little thing though, the DA’s assistant said (paraphrase) you’ve got to read this, it was well written.

One hopes those who are innocent but uneducated get their letters read.  Illiteracy should not exempt them from this opportunity.  

Anyway, the DA is a rockstar in my book.

  • Like 18

Share this post


Link to post

Last night’s case was a sad example of how blind people are to facts when they contradict the popular narrative.  Every day, more and more examples are revealed.

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, nora1992 said:

Last night’s case was a sad example of how blind people are to facts when they contradict the popular narrative.  Every day, more and more examples are revealed.

Common sense and logic! Does it still exist?   
 

I’m just about to watch this now. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

This was really a powerful story and I am gutted by the ending.  At least Pete "died clean" and exonerated, and he left that for his family.

  • Like 9

Share this post


Link to post

That was a heartbreaker. I knew as soon as Pete came on the screen for his interviews with Natalie that he was sick, and had a bad feeling about how this would end. Having lost a close family member to cancer recently, there’s just a look they carry you can recognize. I’m glad he at least lived his last 100 days in freedom with his family, but that was not enough. 

So so much wrong with this entire thing. I cannot imagine the trauma the 2 kids who were pulled into squad cars and interrogated for hours with no family members, then never saw their father home again, have had to overcome. That should have been a lawsuit. I also wondered if there was video or gas receipts from the QT parking lot where Kathleen was supposedly harassed? I do not understand how in 2 trials there was never anything brought up about gun residue on her hands. Shouldn’t that have been one of the first things the defense attorney looked into? Wouldn’t that have been included in her autopsy? 
 

I honestly don’t understand how so much was missed.  Did the DA withholding information really mean none of the actual evidence was available? Did the defense attorney just not ask the right questions? 
 

And finally, on a shallow note, half of those interviewed had seriously bloodshot eyes. The crew needed to be giving Visine out! 

 

  • Like 16
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
46 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

I do not understand how in 2 trials there was never anything brought up about gun residue on her hands. Shouldn’t that have been one of the first things the defense attorney looked into? Wouldn’t that have been included in her autopsy? 

Yeah, when that info on Kathleen's gun residue came out, as well as all the stuff about her stealing from the dad, and embezzling from the bank, I was like, hello, how did HIS attorney not look into this stuff. It seems like a bit of investigating into Kathleen would have been job one, and his attorney could have pushed for residue tests and a second opinion on the crime scene. And how incompetent are the ME/crime scene investigators that they mistook a bullet graze wound as blunt force trauma from an object?! The other attorney recognized that mistake just from a photograph!

This was right up there on the sadness scale as the woman who's husband was kidnapped and tortured in Mexico for years as she worked with authorities and the kidnappers and fought to get him released. She held it together through all that, and then he was finally released and she died shortly thereafter. 

  • Like 10
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post

I'm not even done watching and I'm baffled that Pete was convicted. Kathleen seems like she was a terrible woman. I also agree that Pete's defense attorney did a shit job and failed him as well. 

 

  • Like 12
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post

That ended destroyed me. I was so angry and disbelieving the entire time. There was so.much obvious reasons for doubt (why did she call her mother and not 911? If he planned to kill them why did he use her gun? Why did no one test anyone/thing for gunshot residue?)

I was so happy that he finally was vindicated and the family was so happy to have him back. Pete was generally a good person and, his philosophy of looking forward and being thankful for what he gained, not what he lost?  To have it all ripped away in a few short months. 

That woman was pure evil. 

  • Like 12
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post

I know it’s an exercise in futility, but I’m really trying to figure out what was going on with the first jury who had decided to convict for Kathleen’s murder but acquit for the husband’s.  Did they think that she or someone else happened to kill Carl, and then he just happened to come in right afterwards and kill her?  Was it supposed to be some type of compromise to win over a holdout juror?  Not to mention all the other obvious inconsistencies.  This case was a mess. 

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, TVbitch said:

This was right up there on the sadness scale as the woman who's husband was kidnapped and tortured in Mexico for years as she worked with authorities and the kidnappers and fought to get him released. She held it together through all that, and then he was finally released and she died shortly thereafter. 

Oh, YES, absolutely this episode definitely places in the annals of Dateline "Classics" with the case you mentioned. 

I was in a literal state of shock when the episode ended in both cases and went right onto this board to see what others were gleaning from the twists and turns of this remarkable case.

 

 

  • Like 8

Share this post


Link to post

Pete not only lost 13 years of his life, he may well have died earlier because of his years in prison.  I expect he smoked more in prison than he would have at home. 

He inspired me so much with his, "just a speed bump in the road," attitude.

  • Like 16

Share this post


Link to post

This episode made me so sad, I couldn't comment at first.  Pete seemed like a really nice guy--I never thought he had any sleaze.

I have little to add except to reiterate what others have noted--bungled investigations, especially on the gunshot residue--and lack of logic.  I knew that woman was an elder abuser the moment they started telling us how well she took care of the father.  I kept asking what had happened with the son--until we found out that Pete had done the right thing and removed his dad from the abusive situation.

I thought she had staged the killing also, and couldn't figure out why, because they withheld the information from us till the end.  She was probably a big gambler--she was shown in front of slot machines and at the Hoover Dam (near Vegas).  She must have lost a lot of money that way.

How was it that the economic motives were not played up more by the defense attorney?  It seems that this stuff was known at the time. 

The one thing Mr. K and I couldn't figure out was how the jailhouse snitch knew so much stuff.  I never believed Pete had confessed anything to him.  I believe the bad DA fed the snitch the information through back channels.

Oh, yeah and thanks to those who reminded us of that awful Mexican kidnapping story.  Also so sad. 

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post

14 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

Everyone failed Pete. Everyone.

Except his family!  They stuck by him. 

  • Like 19

Share this post


Link to post

"The Phone Call" was a real puzzler at first. I couldn't get past the idea that the victim had named her killer on a phone call. That went on for about the first hour. Then finally once a defense attorney asked why she would have called her 87 year old mother instead of 911 it hit me.

We're so programmed to think children of killers defend their fathers (or mothers) to the death despite the overwhelming evidence. Damn you, Dateline!

Who was the correspondent of this one? She kind of sucked. "How did it feel being in prison? Did you just wake up every day wondering why should still live?" Gosh no, lady. It was a delightful romp." 

No duh.

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
25 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Who was the correspondent of this one? She kind of sucked. "How did it feel being in prison? Did you just wake up every day wondering why should still live?" Gosh no, lady. It was a delightful romp." 

No duh.

It was Natalie Morales from the Today Show.  I don't know why they suddenly drug her over to Dateline.

Edited by GussieK
  • Like 6
  • Useful 1
  • Sad 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, GussieK said:

The one thing Mr. K and I couldn't figure out was how the jailhouse snitch knew so much stuff.  I never believed Pete had confessed anything to him.  I believe the bad DA fed the snitch the information through back channels.

I was expecting to hear something like that, too, that someone on the force or on the prosecution's side or something was working in cahoots with that snitch. Given the shittiness of the "investigation", something like that happening wouldn't surprise me one bit.

  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post

That was super frustrating.  And it makes me wonder how much of this came down to money. Money for a better lawyer.  Money to test some of the things the state chose not to test or drag their feet on. 

It made me think of all the fictional movies or TV shows about wrongful convictions and how much sadder the reality of it is. 

16 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Oh, YES, absolutely this episode definitely places in the annals of Dateline "Classics" with the case you mentioned. 

It also made me think of the kid with a low IQ who was coerced into a confession by the cop he trusted and considered a friend because the real perps tried to implicate him. 

He didn't die but it was ridiculously sad.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post

This was one of the best Datelines I've seen in a long time. What a tearjerker. 😥

I feel for Pete and his beautiful family and I wish them nothing but the best. I'm so happy they got to reunite at the end and he got to meet his grandchildren. 

 

 

  • Like 12

Share this post


Link to post

I just finished The Phone Call and literally yelled “Fu__ you!” at my TV when I heard Pete had died just 108 days after being released from prison.  I’m just happy he had a truly loving, devoted wife and family behind him, because nothing else about this story was right or fair.

  • Like 9
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

It was Natalie Morales from the Today Show.  I don't know why they suddenly drug her over to Dateline.

Thanks. Her leading questions were straight out of the Andrea Canning playbook.

Quote

It also made me think of the kid with a low IQ who was coerced into a confession by the cop he trusted and considered a friend because the real perps tried to implicate him. 

Speaking of low IQs . . . Kathleen's daughter maybe wasn't the brightest bulb in the  box. To her credit, though, she did seem willing to consider she'd been wrong all along. 

It really is hard to wrap your head around the idea of someone committing a murder-suicide and making the extra effort to frame a third party. They kind of laid out a reason why Kathleen would want to take her own life but not necessarily why she would want to take her husband out with her. Whatever the reason, I guess she just didn't want to take the blame for what she was doing. Talk about wacked priorities. 

  • Like 3
  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
35 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Thanks. Her leading questions were straight out of the Andrea Canning playbook.

Speaking of low IQs . . . Kathleen's daughter maybe wasn't the brightest bulb in the  box. To her credit, though, she did seem willing to consider she'd been wrong all along. 

It really is hard to wrap your head around the idea of someone committing a murder-suicide and making the extra effort to frame a third party. They kind of laid out a reason why Kathleen would want to take her own life but not necessarily why she would want to take her husband out with her. Whatever the reason, I guess she just didn't want to take the blame for what she was doing. Talk about wacked priorities. 

I think they alluded to a motivation--any inheritance would go to the daughter instead of the husband getting all or sharing with the daughter.

  • Like 3
  • Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
51 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I think they alluded to a motivation--any inheritance would go to the daughter instead of the husband getting all or sharing with the daughter.

I  think also that it would also be hard to pin a murder on Pete if Kathleen's husband was still alive. He would know that Pete was not harassing Kathleen, and would also know I would think about Kathleen stealing from and treatment of Pete's dad, etc. Now he might not say anything, but the chances of something slipping are far greater if the husband is alive than if he is dead, since dead men don't talk. Anyone evil enough to pin a murder on an innocent man seems evil enough to kill an innocent man as well. 

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/11/2021 at 11:28 PM, Melina22 said:

Yes it was soooo tacky, grungy and depressing. Yuck. 

 

Me too! Who knew there were so many doughy actors? 😁

I just watched this episode. So many awful characters. Bob at the beginning seemed guilty to me even before we found out about his icky other life and obsessions. He was too chipper in the very beginning in his police interview. And once we knew he was capable of ordering a hit on Joe, there was no way he could maintain that he was a pacifist who would never do such a thing.

I don’t believe that Jane knew about this. Maybe a key party, but not a dungeon and a mistress with whom he was buying a house. I didn’t appreciate the defense attorney who was personally so sure that Jane knew. I also don’t believe that the bartender guy had absolutely no idea what was happening in the basement of his establishment. If people nearby noticed leather-clad people with whips, etc. then surely he did as well.

The suggestions for casting are great. For Bob I might go with George Wendt, if he can play menacing. Or John Goodman, but he’s not so large anymore, I think. Gary Busey is the only one I can see playing Joe. Maybe Tony Sirico for the appliance guy, although he’s older. Too bad because Gandolfini would’ve been great.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/17/2021 at 10:10 AM, TVbitch said:

I was like, hello, how did HIS attorney not look into this stuff. It seems like a bit of investigating into Kathleen would have been job one, and his attorney could have pushed for residue tests and a second opinion on the crime scene. And how incompetent are the ME/crime scene investigators that they mistook a bullet graze wound as blunt force trauma from an object?! The other attorney recognized that mistake just from a photograph!

From working on the defense side of the criminal justice system for MANY years, I will say with some authority that all these types of investigations and evidence collection (even badgering the prosecutor to turn over EVERYTHING they have and then following up in court if they don't comply)costs a LOT of $$$.  I wasn't sure if his first lawyer was personally retained by him or was a court-appointed lawyer.  If it was the latter, in the State in which I reside, there would have been the funds to do all those critical things for his defense.  

However, if he retained his own defense attorney he would have been responsible for footing the bill for these types of things.  That's an outrageous hurdle he would have had to overcome and it's a stain on our system that shortcuts could have been taken in trial strategy and preparation because of $$$.

I believe the second lawyer (appeal) who looked at the case with fresh eyes (with the lady associate) was working in conjunction with some "Innocence Project" funded by a university so the funds would have been absorbed by them.  That is not to diminish in any way the obvious talent and ingenuity of the lawyers themselves looking over boxes and boxes of files and coming up with OBVIOUS flaws in the defense presentation in the original trial!

As soon as I saw the marked loss of weight Pete sustained and recalling the memory YEARS before when his wife referred to him coughing (these types of cancers take years to develop in some people) I was preparing for the worst with Pete's health but when his death was announced at the end my tears flowed and even writing this now brings me to tears again.  Pete, his appeals lawyers, the judge, the prosecutor (D.A.) and his family are to be treated as heroes as, at last, the truth about this horrible crime was finally known.

  • Like 4
  • Useful 6

Share this post


Link to post

Oh Pete, and your sweet family. Everyone failed them, and I hope they are working on a lawsuit with some good lawyers right now.

Nothing to add that hasn't been said, to me this case really highlighted wealth and class disparity. If Pete had money or came from affluence he would not have been wrongfully convicted. It's a shame this is a reality for so many. His jail sentence absolutely contributed to his untimely death, I imagine health care was minimal or non-existent when he was in prison. A simple visit with a doctor and a chest X-ray 5 years ago may have steered the course of his life very differently. I hope he is resting in peace.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 4

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, pdlinda said:

Pete, his appeals lawyers, the judge, the prosecutor (D.A.) and his family are to be treated as heroes as, at last, the truth about this horrible crime was finally known.

Sorry to have omitted the counselor and work supervisor (laundry) who INSISTED that Pete not give up and spend the time and effort needed to pen that very effective letter (specifically referred to as well written by the D.A.) explaining the flaws in his conviction.

Having had many experiences with similar professionals in the prisons throughout my career I can unconditionally say that there are MANY dedicated professionals in the "non-disciplinary" side of a prison who are mostly underpaid and under appreciated.

  • Like 4
  • Useful 4

Share this post


Link to post

I finally watched this show. I was sort of glad I was spoiled by this thread so it wasn't so horrifying when I heard he died. 

Obviously this was a terrible injustice, made more tragic by his death so soon after his release. But I'm trying to focus on what an incredible vindication this was for Pete and his family. He was able to die, surrounded by loved ones, knowing the shadow had been lifted. If he'd died a little sooner, he would have died alone in prison, and the family wouldn't have been able to say goodbye. 

In contrast to Pete's strong and functional children, Kathleen's daughter, sadly, was a complete wreck. My sense is that she was in bad shape long before her mother died. I know she loved her mother, but you have to wonder what damage was done to her by having a mother like Kathleen. I can't believe a woman who would embezzle, and mistreat an old man, and murder her husband, and deliberately pin it on someone she hated, could be a kind and loving mother. Imagine how her daughter feels hearing that her mother deliberately killed herself without even saying goodbye to her. Poor girl. 

 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/18/2021 at 1:02 AM, iMonrey said:

Who was the correspondent of this one? She kind of sucked. "How did it feel being in prison? Did you just wake up every day wondering why should still live?" Gosh no, lady. It was a delightful romp." 

I saw this differently. I was glad she asked this question. A pet peeve of mine (that's not really the right word but I can't think of anything else) is how lightly many people seem to take long prison sentences. Or even short ones! They say things like, "They don't have to work. They get fed 3 times a day and take courses? That's not punishment!" Imagine being locked in your bedroom for a month. 6 months. 10 years. How do you even get up every day? What's your purpose? 

Pete seemed to welcome the opportunity to express how futile his life felt, to the point he'd decided that 10 years was his limit. It was heartrending to listen to, but also very valuable. 

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I finally watched this show. I was sort of glad I was spoiled by this thread so it wasn't so horrifying when I heard he died. 

Obviously this was a terrible injustice, made more tragic by his death so soon after his release. But I'm trying to focus on what an incredible vindication this was for Pete and his family. He was able to die, surrounded by loved ones, knowing the shadow had been lifted. If he'd died a little sooner, he would have died alone in prison, and the family wouldn't have been able to say goodbye. 

In contrast to Pete's strong and functional children, Kathleen's daughter, sadly, was a complete wreck. My sense is that she was in bad shape long before her mother died. I know she loved her mother, but you have to wonder what damage was done to her by having a mother like Kathleen. I can't believe a woman who would embezzle, and mistreat an old man, and murder her husband, and deliberately pin it on someone she hated, could be a kind and loving mother. Imagine how her daughter feels hearing that her mother deliberately killed herself without even saying goodbye to her. Poor girl. 

 

I’d forgotten that the daughter and her son were going to spend the night but were sent home because supposedly stepdad was in a bad mood. The stepdad she loved. So that was another crappy memory that horrible woman tried to plant. 

  • Sad 3

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/17/2021 at 1:10 PM, TVbitch said:

This was right up there on the sadness scale as the woman who's husband was kidnapped and tortured in Mexico for years as she worked with authorities and the kidnappers and fought to get him released. She held it together through all that, and then he was finally released and she died shortly thereafter. 

And the Josh Powell case.

I really felt for Blair as well.  To have to process that your mother did all of this and now to know the real reason why Kathleen sent her and her daughter home that night.  I think as she processes this more and more, it will be a heavy burden for her to carry.

  • Like 2
  • Sad 4

Share this post


Link to post
On 4/18/2021 at 6:23 PM, iMonrey said:

Talk about wacked priorities. 

I seriously winder if they had done an autopsy on Kathleen, would they have found a brain tumor that was impeding her rational thought? Stealing and embezzlement is one thing, but killing yourself, your husband, and framing a third party...that's a whole different thing

  • Like 2
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post
6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Stealing and embezzlement is one thing, but killing yourself, your husband, and framing a third party...that's a whole different thing

I don't recall any story we've heard on Dateline before where the "villain" had a plot that also involves killing themselves. It's really baffling. 

That said, so many of these horrifying mass killings we've been seeing seem to end with the killer committing suicide in a preplanned way. I've always found this confusing... if someone is so evil and unempathetic that they'd plan mass murder, wouldn't they be way too narcissistic to kill themselves? And yet apparently not. It's almost impossible to understand. 

  • Like 3
  • Sad 2

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size