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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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2 hours ago, Ellee said:

Does anyone know how Lori’s sister died?  Jealousy??? I know her sister was young. 

Are you talking about Lori Vallow? 

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8 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Finally, I bet most people DO consider children more valuable than adults. I'm not saying that's correct, just that I think most people think that. 

Adding on to that, there's also the fact that children are generally a lot more defenseless than adults are. There are kids who've managed to fight back against and escape kidnappers/murderers, of course, but much of the time, it's a lot harder for them to fight back than it is for adults. I think that's a large part of why murders involving kids hit harder, too. 

I agree with the rest of your post as well.

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I also get the impression there's an element of religious bias connected with this case because of the affiliation with the LDS. People feel validated to say "Look how crazy their beliefs are, it led them to murdering their own children." Murderers come in all stripes and from every religion, and I'm not comfortable assigning blame to any one belief system over another. I don't have the statistics on hand but I'm willing to bet the percentage of murders committed by members of the LDS is lower than other religions.

I definitely agree that's a large part of it, too. For me, ultimately, religious cults of any stripe, of any faith, as well as those that don't really have a religious bent, are always alternately fascinating and horrifying, simply because it's just wild to see how deep into these cults people will get, and the lengths they'll go to follow whatever beliefs they've been sucked into. Heaven's Gate, Jonestown, this doomsday cult, Warren Jeffs, Waco, you name it, it's all equally weird and disturbing to me. 

And then you've got people like Lori in those cults, where it's hard sometimes to tell whether she really, truly believes what this cult is saying and doing, or, given the fact she loves all the attention she's getting and whatnot, whether she's just using that as an excuse to let her real, creepy self out. Whichever option it is, the fact she was willing to kill her children over it is...deeply chilling. 

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7 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

And then you've got people like Lori in those cults, where it's hard sometimes to tell whether she really, truly believes what this cult is saying and doing, or, given the fact she loves all the attention she's getting and whatnot, whether she's just using that as an excuse to let her real, creepy self out.

This is so true. I've watched hours of reports about her and still don't have a clue what the answer is. 

Also, lets face it - hearing that an apparently clean-living, ultra religious person has been involved in a sex scandal and/or murder is always going to attract way more interest than hearing that a crack dealer murdered another crack dealer. (Unless the crack dealer was actually a SECRET crack dealer, masquerading as a clean-living, ultra religious person. Then for sure he'd be on Dateline. 😁

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13 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Also, lets face it - hearing that an apparently clean-living, ultra religious person has been involved in a sex scandal and/or murder is always going to attract way more interest than hearing that a crack dealer murdered another crack dealer. (Unless the crack dealer was actually a SECRET crack dealer, masquerading as a clean-living, ultra religious person. Then for sure he'd be on Dateline. 😁

Ohhhhhh, yes. The more holier-than-thou one presents themselves, the more likely they are to have, or, at least, the more people will assume they have, skeletons of their own lurking in their closet somewhere. 

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1) It's more than just the kids because almost everyone is dead: Joe, Charles, Tammy, Alex, JJ, and Tylee.  The common thread in all of this is Lori.  That woman is seriously lethal.  Don't get me wrong, Chad's got plenty of issues of his own.  He's a religious zealot, but I don;'t think he's murderous.  I believe that course of action came from Lori. If that had been in Chad, I think he would have murdered Tammy before now.

2) JJ was not even Lori's biological child, and he still ended up dead.  Charles was killed, he had reported his concerns about Lori before he was killed, and she still got to retain custody of JJ.  That still blows my mind.  Charles tried to tell anyone who would listen that he was afraid of Lori, and he was a grown man.  Yet, after he's killed (by her brother no less), no one questions that she has custody of children---any children.  Unfreakin' believable.

This goes far beyond the killing of children (which is horrendous to begin with).   It's that JJ and Tylee were killed AND the body count that Lori left in her wake as well. Chad's actually lucky he's in prison because Lori would likely murder him next.

Edited by Ohmo
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One thing I noticed was the way we saw her trying to charm every policeman and man in authority she dealt with, and in at least a few cases it seemed to work. 

In addition she seems impervious to guilt or remorse to an inconceivable degree. I thought it was bad when she was laughing right after being told her husband was dead, but as noted by a previous poster, to see her and Chad acting playful right after the murder of her children, while plotting the murder of his wife, makes her seem like she can't actually be a human, let alone one who can pass as normal. She's terrifying. I totally get why people are so obsessed. 

 

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Interesting. Lori’s sister that died was the mother of her niece Melanie, who is also (apparently) a believer in The Cult.  We knew from an earlier episode that the niece’s husband had been shot at by someone thought to be Alex. Unbelievable. 

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12 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I totally get why people are so obsessed.

That one LEO said it best---all of the witnesses who would testify in this case are dead.  Adults and children alike. The one person she hasn't killed is Colby---who happens to still believe her pile of madness.

At this point, it's WELL withing the realm of possibility that Lori could have killed her sister.  Wouldn't shock me at all.

Lori Vallow is the female Thomas Rudolph.

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16 minutes ago, Ohmo said:

Lori Vallow is the female Thomas Rudolph.

Totally agree, but with the difference that Thomas struck most people as sort of off and creepy. Lori, unfortunately, did not. 

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The one person I think may not belong on this list is Andrea Yates. I think she was legitimately a victim of postpartum psychosis. I don't have the heart to go back and revisit her story, but I saw it on a show a few years ago, and even her now-ex-husband, while devastated, doesn't think she's evil. He thinks she was sick. 

What really struck me was when they interviewed her in prison, she basically said, "I deserve to be here after what I did." It was heartbreaking. 

 

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8 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

The one person I think may not belong on this list is Andrea Yates. I think she was legitimately a victim of postpartum psychosis. I don't have the heart to go back and revisit her story, but I saw it on a show a few years ago, and even her now-ex-husband, while devastated, doesn't think she's evil. He thinks she was sick. 

What really struck me was when they interviewed her in prison, she basically said, "I deserve to be here after what I did." It was heartbreaking. 

Agreed. I've heard she's since been moved to a mental health facility, and I think that's a good idea. That's a much better place for her to be than prison. 

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3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

The one person I think may not belong on this list is Andrea Yates. I think she was legitimately a victim of postpartum psychosis. I don't have the heart to go back and revisit her story, but I saw it on a show a few years ago, and even her now-ex-husband, while devastated, doesn't think she's evil. He thinks she was sick. 

What really struck me was when they interviewed her in prison, she basically said, "I deserve to be here after what I did." It was heartbreaking. 

 

Yes, Andrea was a deeply sick person when she killed her children. The signs of post-partum psychosis were clearly evident, but no one intervened to help her or her kids. Heart-breaking.

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On 3/27/2021 at 4:46 PM, iMonrey said:

Like we've become so desensitized to "run of the mill" murders but have to draw the line when the victim is  someone's child. As though children are somehow more valuable than adults or something

It’s ‘or something’.  Children are literally defenseless.  They can’t beat up the person whose beating on them. They can’t kill the person whose trying to kill them.  They can’t stop a pedophile from hurting them.  It’s the adults job to protect them.  In this case, the person that was supposed to protect them is whom they needed protection from.  So yes, it’s more appalling than  many murders of adults.  
 

As to Andrea Yates, yes she was sick. In my opinion, her husband was not and was an intelligent person who let her get sicker and sicker while continuing to impregnate her.  He should have been charged with something in my opinion. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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On an extremely shallow note, I wonder why someone as vain as Lori seems to be is OK wearing extensions that looks like old matted yarn. 

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I guess there's no accounting for taste, even among sociopathic murderers. 

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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I guess there's no accounting for taste, even among sociopathic murderers.

Well we know she has no taste by looking at her current husband.

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"Sex, Lies and Murder." Wow, what a weird, crazy and convoluted case, with so many characters straight out of Central Casting. If anything should be a movie, this should. 

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36 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

"Sex, Lies and Murder." Wow, what a weird, crazy and convoluted case, with so many characters straight out of Central Casting. If anything should be a movie, this should. 

Another Dateline oldie masquerading as a new episode. But I had never seen it. Look how that creeper Bob talked so calmly to the NBC reporters in 2012. Ultimately there would have been no reason for the handyman to kill the wife without involvement of Beshara. 

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Yes, they mentioned this. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a cold-blooded murderer ever come across as quite so normal and harmless. Although I get the feeling that people who actually knew him weren't fooled by his fake nice persona. His poor children have now lost both parents, not that they were on his side after the trial. 

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13 minutes ago, Ellee said:

I didn’t watch this and forgot to record it. 

If you can, definitely record and watch next time it runs. There are so many larger than life characters in this one, right down to the judge at his trial. It's not boring, to say the least! 

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1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

Yes, they mentioned this. I'm not sure if I've ever seen a cold-blooded murderer ever come across as quite so normal and harmless. Although I get the feeling that people who actually knew him weren't fooled by his fake nice persona. His poor children have now lost both parents, not that they were on his side after the trial. 

They weren’t.  This happened in my community, and while I didn’t know Bob personally, I knew several people who did, and not one of them had anything good to say about him.  I followed this case closely, and to say the least, it was beyond crazy. 

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This Master Bob story was new to me!  I immediately thought that Keith Morrison should have been the reporter on this one, because he always snags the salacious ones!  Dennis Murphy and his "do I really want to know?" was humorous in the midst of what info was going to come out!  Keith would have been all over that asking for all the details!

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56 minutes ago, Fable said:

They weren’t.  This happened in my community, and while I didn’t know Bob personally, I knew several people who did, and not one of them had anything good to say about him.  I followed this case closely, and to say the least, it was beyond crazy. 

Any information you’d care to spill?  

Jane looked like she’d be an awesome friend.  I am so sorry for her children.  One question you might be able to answer, was “Big Bob” always a jerk?  

If nothing else it was interesting to see the hair dye while in prison.  He had confidence, I’ll give him that. 

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1 hour ago, PsychoKlown said:

Any information you’d care to spill?  

Jane looked like she’d be an awesome friend.  I am so sorry for her children.  One question you might be able to answer, was “Big Bob” always a jerk?  

If nothing else it was interesting to see the hair dye while in prison.  He had confidence, I’ll give him that. 

I was checking my local news this morning, and I saw an article about this case this morning, and I was wondering why they were revisiting this after all these years, and then I saw that this had been on Dateline.   As I said, I didn’t know him personally, but there is a mile long strip just outside of Grosse Pointe called the Nautical Mile with a lot of bars and restaurants that I used to frequent, and supposedly Bob also would sometimes go to.  In any case, some of the people I associated with claimed to have known him, and the way I understood it was that he was very pretentious and fancied himself a man about town.

Most of what I knew was covered either here or in local media, and I have no inside information.  However, an interesting tidbit is that the church my father attended held an annual festival, which Bob attended after the murder and was asked to leave. 

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2 hours ago, Fable said:

They weren’t.  This happened in my community, and while I didn’t know Bob personally, I knew several people who did, and not one of them had anything good to say about him.  I followed this case closely, and to say the least, it was beyond crazy. 

It would have taken me six hot seconds to convict Master Bob.  I had his number from miles away.  Completely believe Joe, and it seems Bob's children did, too.  It's no great loss that Bob is dead.

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4 hours ago, Ellee said:

I didn’t watch this and forgot to record it. 

I went to read about it.  Apparently the husband died in August of 2020.  
 

https://www.clickondetroit.com/news/local/2020/08/18/convicted-murderer-bob-bashara-has-died-after-being-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-in-2015/

 

FYI...you should be able to watch the episode on Dateline's website.  It's usually posted by today (the day after it airs).  I've done this more than once when I've missed a recording.

Edited by Ohmo
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When Joe recanted his police statement and took sole responsibility for the crime I was shocked. Then when the judge pointed out that Joe's new statement would blow his original deal, he recanted his recanting. That gave me pause. Joe will clearly make up testimony if it suits him. I do think Bob hired Joe to do it, but I can't be sure about Bob being present when it happened. I mean, what was Bob going to do in the garage? Shoot both of them right there if Joe refused to kill his wife? Is Bob gonna then dispose of both bodies and clean up, cuz we know from his employee at the bar that Bob don't do no actual work! : D

The big clincher for me was Bob trying to put a hit on Joe. So stupid. If Joe acted alone and is just lying about you being involved, it will probably come out, and you don't need to kill him. In fact you are killing the one person who can come clean and say you are innocent. You only kill Joe so he can't testify against you, which is also stupid, cuz they already have Joe's story on police video. 

Which brings me to: why on earth would Joe not testify against Bob during the trial? Again, I thought it was maybe because his story was not true, and Bob was not actually in the garage at the time. 

Not impressed with this judge. Who compliments a defendant on how nice they look during a murder trial?! Then telling Denis how she got Joe to recant his recanting, and how she believed every word Joe said, and could read what Bob was thinking. I know she is retired, but I think judges should keep that stuff to themselves. Then at the end exclaiming that Jane was finally free. Please. 

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What I was wondering is why did Big Blob turn Joe in ? He knew he was dealing with a guy with a rather low IQ.  Why take the chance he is going to turn on you?

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35 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Which brings me to: why on earth would Joe not testify against Bob during the trial? Again, I thought it was maybe because his story was not true, and Bob was not actually in the garage at the time. 

My question about Joe is how people kept saying he had the mentality of a child. But also implying he was scheming various ways to get away with his crime.They can't both be true. 

From the police interview we saw, he clearly had an explosive temper. But nothing else I saw implied his IQ was lower than half the people we see on this show. 

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5 hours ago, Ohmo said:

FYI...you should be able to watch the episode on Dateline's website.  It's usually posted by today (the day after it airs).  I've done this more than once when I've missed a recording.

The episodes are also available on demand, depending on your cable company.  We have Spectrum. 

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

When Joe recanted his police statement and took sole responsibility for the crime I was shocked. Then when the judge pointed out that Joe's new statement would blow his original deal, he recanted his recanting. That gave me pause. Joe will clearly make up testimony if it suits him. I do think Bob hired Joe to do it, but I can't be sure about Bob being present when it happened. I mean, what was Bob going to do in the garage? Shoot both of them right there if Joe refused to kill his wife? Is Bob gonna then dispose of both bodies and clean up, cuz we know from his employee at the bar that Bob don't do no actual work! : D

The big clincher for me was Bob trying to put a hit on Joe. So stupid. If Joe acted alone and is just lying about you being involved, it will probably come out, and you don't need to kill him. In fact you are killing the one person who can come clean and say you are innocent. You only kill Joe so he can't testify against you, which is also stupid, cuz they already have Joe's story on police video. 

Which brings me to: why on earth would Joe not testify against Bob during the trial? Again, I thought it was maybe because his story was not true, and Bob was not actually in the garage at the time. 

Not impressed with this judge. Who compliments a defendant on how nice they look during a murder trial?! Then telling Denis how she got Joe to recant his recanting, and how she believed every word Joe said, and could read what Bob was thinking. I know she is retired, but I think judges should keep that stuff to themselves. Then at the end exclaiming that Jane was finally free. Please. 

Yes, did not understand the judge commenting on his look! 

Joe was stupid, but Bob was stupid too, and he thought he was smarter than Joe.  Not!

2 hours ago, MsJamieDornan said:

What I was wondering is why did Big Blob turn Joe in ? He knew he was dealing with a guy with a rather low IQ.  Why take the chance he is going to turn on you?

Because his IQ had to be only marginally higher.

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This story was new to me, too. 

8 hours ago, basiltherat said:

I immediately thought that Keith Morrison should have been the reporter on this one, because he always snags the salacious ones!  Dennis Murphy and his "do I really want to know?" was humorous in the midst of what info was going to come out!  Keith would have been all over that asking for all the details!

True, but honestly, I was more on Dennis' side with the "Do I really want to know?" reaction. "Dateline" owes me a crapton of brain bleach for all the disturbing images I've now got in my head after that episode. 

Also, I said to my mom at one point that we could make a drinking game out of how many times they said 'Master Bob" throughout the episode. Ew. 

3 hours ago, TVbitch said:

The big clincher for me was Bob trying to put a hit on Joe. So stupid. If Joe acted alone and is just lying about you being involved, it will probably come out, and you don't need to kill him. In fact you are killing the one person who can come clean and say you are innocent. You only kill Joe so he can't testify against you, which is also stupid, cuz they already have Joe's story on police video. 

My two favorite details from the bit where Bob tried to put a hit out on Joe:

-"I don't know why anyone would think I'd want to be involved in a plot to kill my wife, that's just crazy!", says the man who's...putting a hit out on someone else connected to his wife's death. 

(I also love how his reasons for why he couldn't possibly want his wife dead were because she makes a lot of money, and then he says that their life together "was golden". You would think the second reason would be the first one to pop into his head, but no. Which I found rather telling.)

-He wanted a receipt. For a hit. That was paid for with cash. A RECEIPT. Not the brightest bulb, our Bob. My mom and I got a really good laugh out of that part. 

Also, I love in all these stories where people conspire to commit a murder how they're texting and calling each other SO MANY TIMES. In this case it was hundreds. I'm thinking that a) maybe people should just start writing their plans down on pieces of paper and passing them on to teach other and burning them afterward, because. you have to know at this point that police WILL find all those phone calls and texts at some point and start going, "Hmmmm....". 

And b) that many calls and texts also seems to imply to me that the people involved really suck at making plans, because unless your plans have changed or something, I can't imagine you'd need to talk THAT often prior to committing a crime. It shouldn't take that many calls and texts to figure out the who, what, where, and when of how to do something like that. 

6 hours ago, Ohmo said:

It would have taken me six hot seconds to convict Master Bob.  I had his number from miles away. 

So did my mom. HIs constant calls the very night his wife went missing pinged her radar as odd, too. Calling her friends and the kids to see if they'd heard from her after she still hadn't returned home after a time, okay, that would be a logical response. But calling 911 twice as he did, and the way he tried to act as though he were so worried...that had my mom going, "Yeah, that's a little much." 

Also, Rachel's ultimatum-we need to sit women like her down and explain that if you have to make that kind of ultimatum to a guy you're seeing, if you keep getting impatient with him because he hasn't left his wife for you, that is a massive red flag and you need to just cut your losses and move on. A guy like that is really not worth your time and if they really want to be with you, then they won't need an ultimatum. They'll just make it happen of their own accord. And in the case of this guy especially, Rachel should thank her lucky stars that their relationship didn't last beyond their brief affair. 

Yeah. Just a wild story the whole way around. 

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28 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Also, Rachel's ultimatum-we need to sit women like her down and explain that if you have to make that kind of ultimatum to a guy you're seeing, if you keep getting impatient with him because he hasn't left his wife for you, that is a massive red flag and you need to just cut your losses and move on.

Great post. You make the case that Joe probably had an IQ several points higher than Master Bob. 

Rachel said something like, "First he was a widower. Then he wasn't a widower, he was getting a divorce..." I can only assume she ignored the forest of red flags due to his stellar looks and sparkling personality. (Unlike the proposed second woman who after she spent 2 days with him in person was like"NOPE!" 😁

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4 hours ago, TVbitch said:

 

Not impressed with this judge. Who compliments a defendant on how nice they look during a murder trial?! Then telling Denis how she got Joe to recant his recanting, and how she believed every word Joe said, and could read what Bob was thinking. I know she is retired, but I think judges should keep that stuff to themselves. Then at the end exclaiming that Jane was finally free. Please. 

Honestly, the judge creeped me out almost more than Master Bob did. And that is a high bar to clear. She sounded like she was flirting with Bob when she complimented him on how he looked in the courtroom. And she didn't think that someone who looked like Bob could be involved with BSDM? Clearly she does not watch Dateline, Bob looks like pretty much any hubby they have had on who is involved with BSDM. The comment that Jane was free had me shaking my head. She isn't free you moron, she is dead. 

There have been a few episodes on these true crime shows over the years that have had me think they could be a Coen Brothers movie. This one took the cake. As I was watching, I was actually trying to cast the roles. I only got as far as Wanda Sykes for the judge, Sherri Shepherd as the defense attorney, and Nick Nolte as Joe. I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him. I guess they would have to use that theatrical makeup that Dateline said was used on the woman they interviewed towards the beginning of the episode. 

How ironic that Master Bob was actually so submissive IRL that he had his wife killed to meet his mistress's deadline. I do agree with the judge though - it isn't like he didn't know how to divorce. So I assume it came down to money and not wanting to split the assets.  I rolled my eyes at Bob's assertion that he wouldn't kill Jane because she made $125,000 a year. What a peach he was.  His poor kids. Their father was a loser even before he became a killer. 

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1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

And b) that many calls and texts also seems to imply to me that the people involved really suck at making plans, because unless your plans have changed or something, I can't imagine you'd need to talk THAT often prior to committing a crime. It shouldn't take that many calls and texts to figure out the who, what, where, and when of how to do something like that. 

One thing that wasn’t covered here is that, at least according to Joe, there two other plans discussed for killing Jane, one with an insulin overdose and another with a forced fatal car accident   This leads me to believe that while Joe may have had a lower than average IQ, he was completely complicit in the planning.  And Rachel, Rachel, Rachel…don’t even get me started!

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1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Clearly she does not watch Dateline, Bob looks like pretty much any hubby they have had on who is involved with BSDM. The comment that Jane was free had me shaking my head. She isn't free you moron, she is dead. 

 

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

As I was watching, I was actually trying to cast the roles. I only got as far as Wanda Sykes for the judge, Sherri Shepherd as the defense attorney, and Nick Nolte as Joe

Yes to all of this, except Joe reminds me so much of an actor whose name I can't think of. Let's cast him instead of Nick. As for Master Bob... is Mug Shot Nick Nolte too attractive? Eh, probably. 

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

How ironic that Master Bob was actually so submissive IRL that he had his wife killed to meet his mistress's deadline.

Ha! Yet another excellent observation. 😁

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53 minutes ago, Fable said:

One thing that wasn’t covered here is that, at least according to Joe, there two other plans discussed for killing Jane, one with an insulin overdose and another with a forced fatal car accident   This leads me to believe that while Joe may have had a lower than average IQ, he was completely complicit in the planning. 

Oh, really? That's very interesting, indeed. Pretty horrific options there. 

And yeah, as we've seen many, many times on this show, IQ clearly means nothing when it comes to one's capability in plotting a murder-there is no shortage of incredibly stupid criminals out there, after all :p. Even people who purport to be smart guys and have above average intelligence will still do very stupid things when involved with a crime.

1 hour ago, UsernameFatigue said:

There have been a few episodes on these true crime shows over the years that have had me think they could be a Coen Brothers movie. This one took the cake. As I was watching, I was actually trying to cast the roles. I only got as far as Wanda Sykes for the judge, Sherri Shepherd as the defense attorney, and Nick Nolte as Joe. I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him. I guess they would have to use that theatrical makeup that Dateline said was used on the woman they interviewed towards the beginning of the episode. 

LOL, I love this. I'm sure there's got to be some guy with Bob's build out there who could take on the role...something to mull over now :p.

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How ironic that Master Bob was actually so submissive IRL that he had his wife killed to meet his mistress's deadline.

This is an awesome point. 

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His poor kids. Their father was a loser even before he became a killer. 

Seriously, I love how he was all, "I don't want to embarrass my kids publicly and share such personal information" when it came to talk of his kinky sex life and his relationship with his wife. Which is precisely why you agreed to be interviewed on a TV show that gets broadcast nationwide to millions of viewers, right, Bob?

But yeah, if I were to find out his kids had had no contact with him after all of this, I would not be one bit surprised. And I would wholeheartedly support their decision. 

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

Great post. You make the case that Joe probably had an IQ several points higher than Master Bob. 

Rachel said something like, "First he was a widower. Then he wasn't a widower, he was getting a divorce..." I can only assume she ignored the forest of red flags due to his stellar looks and sparkling personality. (Unlike the proposed second woman who after she spent 2 days with him in person was like"NOPE!" 😁

Thanks :). And LOL, right? Not only is his story shifting, but he's got no problem claiming his wife is dead when she isn't. Yet, at least. Clearly she needs to watch more "Dateline". 

I did like how that second woman said that if something felt off to her about a guy, she wouldn't meet him...and yet she still got together with this guy and went with him to his little dungeon. Seems she might want to fine-tune her BS detector a little more. But yeah, thank goodness for her sake that she was able to get away pretty quickly. 

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36 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

 

 

But yeah, if I were to find out his kids had had no contact with him after all of this, I would not be one bit surprised. And I would wholeheartedly support their decision. 

 

They did say that the kids had no contact with Bob, but I can't remember if it was after his first conviction for trying to have Joe murdered, or his second for having Jane murdered. 

Normally I am shaking my head at a spouse who murders their partner, and leaves their kids without either parent, But if I were Bob's kids I would have ditched him as a parent just based on his sexual preferences. I am not a prude. but I do not understand the draw of BSDM. Especially when someone has a daughter, I wonder how he would feel if someone treated his daughter that way? Interesting that the woman who Bob wanted to move into the house he was buying with his mistress dropped him after the first time they had sex. She wasn't even in the dungeon, just a hotel room and dropped him because he liked rough sex.

I was also wondering what Rachel's kids must have thought about the man their mother brought to her daughter's wedding? And what they thought about their mother after all of this came out? 

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20 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

But if I were Bob's kids I would have ditched him as a parent just based on his sexual preferences. I am not a prude. but I do not understand the draw of BSDM. Especially when someone has a daughter, I wonder how he would feel if someone treated his daughter that way? .

It's not something that would interest me, either, but done right, with couples fully consenting and understanding the elements involved and being safe and responsible and all that sort of thing, I can see where it'd be a thrill for some people. Bob seemed like the sort of guy who didn't seem to grasp or understand the spirit and point of that kind of sexual activity-he just saw it as an excuse to keep meeting women other than his wife and try to have his cake and eat it, too. I remember hearing about how so many people in the BDSM lifestyle got so frustrated when "Fifty Shades" came out, because of how it warped people's understanding of that kind of sexual activity and brought in people who didn't really "get" what BDSM was and were just there to try and look "edgy" and "cool" to their friends, or used it as a way to let their creepy behavior out thinking they wouldn't be held accountable, or things of that sort. Those people would've despised someone like Bob being part of that lifestyle. 

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3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

But if I were Bob's kids I would have ditched him as a parent just based on his sexual preferences. I am not a prude. but I do not understand the draw of BSDM. Especially when someone has a daughter, I wonder how he would feel if someone treated his daughter that way? Interesting that the woman who Bob wanted to move into the house he was buying with his mistress dropped him after the first time they had sex. She wasn't even in the dungeon, just a hotel room and dropped him because he liked rough sex.

BDSM is transgressive and, done correctly, involves a lot of respect, consent, explicit boundaries and after care--basically the kind of stuff vanilla sex should have too but it's rarely formalized the way it is in the kink scene.  Women can be doms too while there are many men who are subs.

But then you have your Bobs and your Armie Hammers who sound like they are bad kinksters and don't respect the boundaries the sub sets (who usually has the power in BDSM because they usually get to set the limits). 

I wouldn't want to know if my parents were kinksters but it would be no reason for me to cut off times with them if I were to find out. 

I actually do think his wife knew about his proclivities. 

This was one of the rare times I didn't hate the defense attorney.  She did the best she could with what she had. 

Edited by Irlandesa
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6 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him.

Eric Stonestreet.

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12 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

There have been a few episodes on these true crime shows over the years that have had me think they could be a Coen Brothers movie. This one took the cake. As I was watching, I was actually trying to cast the roles. I only got as far as Wanda Sykes for the judge, Sherri Shepherd as the defense attorney, and Nick Nolte as Joe. I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him. I guess they would have to use that theatrical makeup that Dateline said was used on the woman they interviewed towards the beginning of the episode. 

Good casting choices except I suggest Gary Busey for Joe with Nick Nolte coming in a close second.

I thought Master Bob (good grief)  looked a lot like the late Al Waxman.  For those Cagney and Lacey fans, he played Lt. Samuels on the show.  The one picture with him and Jane he strongly resembled the Lt.  

And apologies to all Al Waxman fans.  That Bob creature wasn’t worthy to shine Mr. Waxman’s shoes.

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13 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

There have been a few episodes on these true crime shows over the years that have had me think they could be a Coen Brothers movie. This one took the cake. As I was watching, I was actually trying to cast the roles. I only got as far as Wanda Sykes for the judge, Sherri Shepherd as the defense attorney, and Nick Nolte as Joe. I am stuck on Master Bob, as I can't think of any actor with enough of a doughy, non descript looking face to play him. I guess they would have to use that theatrical makeup that Dateline said was used on the woman they interviewed towards the beginning of the episode. 

As long as we're doing a Coen brothers  movie with northern accents, I have to have the pancakes loving killer from Fargo as Joe and Frances McDormand as the woman in the theatrical make-up that she thought was a good disguise.  My husband and I could not quit laughing through the whole thing, but she was my favorite, particularly when she said she didn't go back to the dungeon because Master Bob was "self-involved."  Oh no! Was he bossy, too?

 

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The blonde strands hanging out of the bottom of that lady’s wig cracked me up! You know they could have fixed that for her, but I think the producers were having way too much fun with this. 

I definitely believe Bob ordered the hit, but I cannot figure out why he sent the cops to Joe. And it took him a while to get there, it’s not like in his first 2 interviews with police he said, I have this guy who had it out for me because I didn’t pay him. Very odd choice. And that letter was weird. Joe believed if he changed his story to killing her on his own he’d get a reduced sentence? What?! I think his prison mates are messing with him  

Dateline didn’t mention the contradiction between Bob’s lawyer swearing Jane knew about his secret life and Bob swearing she knew nothing about it in their original interview with him.

Appliance repair guy/undercover mooning spy can only be played by the late James Gandolfini. 

 

Edited by Lsk02
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2 hours ago, PsychoKlown said:

I thought Master Bob (good grief)  looked a lot like the late Al Waxman.

True. Or what about the actor on Schitts Creek who runs the garage?(No offense to the actor, he's hilarious. ) 

30 minutes ago, Lsk02 said:

The blonde strands hanging out of the bottom of that lady’s wig cracked me up! You know they could have fixed that for her, but I think the producers were having way too much fun with this. 

I never noticed! I was too focused on her nose. 

This thread is so much fun. I just have to not think about the, you know, murder. 😬

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On 4/2/2021 at 1:44 AM, mythoughtis said:

It’s ‘or something’.  Children are literally defenseless.  They can’t beat up the person whose beating on them. They can’t kill the person whose trying to kill them.  They can’t stop a pedophile from hurting them.  It’s the adults job to protect them.  In this case, the person that was supposed to protect them is whom they needed protection from.  So yes, it’s more appalling than  many murders of adults.  
 

As to Andrea Yates, yes she was sick. In my opinion, her husband was not and was an intelligent person who let her get sicker and sicker while continuing to impregnate her.  He should have been charged with something in my opinion. 

Yep. I remember a friend of Andrea’s being outraged that he made Andrea live with a bunch of kids, for quite a few years, in a converted bus, yet he lived in a lovely home after Andrea’s incarceration. 
 

He was fine with Andrea, who he described as a “robot”, home schooling, home churching, and caring for her dying father.  Andrea was supervised by Rusty’s mom, yet even though Andrea was found filling a bathtub with water and not able to explain why, he decided that Andrea needed more “responsibility” and instructed his mom to wait an hour after he left for work to come over. 

Andrea’s story broke my heart. She thought she was such a horrible mother, that she was damning her children to hell. She chose to kill them, ensuring their entrance to heaven, even though she would be damned to hell. In her sick, damaged mind, she was committing the ultimate sacrifice to ensure their eternal lives.   The cruelest punishment was receiving proper mental health care, and realizing what she did. 

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13 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

BDSM is transgressive and, done correctly, involves a lot of respect, consent, explicit boundaries and after care--basically the kind of stuff vanilla sex should have too but it's rarely formalized the way it is in the kink scene.  Women can be doms too while there are many men who are subs.

But then you have your Bobs and your Armie Hammers who sound like they are bad kinksters and don't respect the boundaries the sub sets (who usually has the power in BDSM because they usually get to set the limits). 

I wouldn't want to know if my parents were kinksters but it would be no reason for me to cut off times with them if I were to find out. 

I actually do think his wife knew about his proclivities. 

This was one of the rare times I didn't hate the defense attorney.  She did the best she could with what she had. 

Sorry, I wasn't clear about my comment regarding Bob's kids cutting him out of their lives. Bob did not participate in BDSM as a loving partner with his wife. He cheated on his wife, and participated with strangers, and with his long time mistress. So ya, if he was my dad treating my mother than way, I would have no respect for him and no reason to let him be a part of my life. As an adult of course, as if I were still a minor I wouldn't have much choice, but would treat him with disdain and a cold shoulder. And that is even without the lack of respect he appeared to have for the other women he participated in BDSM with.

And yes, I have heard that BSDM done correctly involves respect, etc. Just don't see it myself. There are plenty of ways to have an exciting non "vanilla" sex life without BDSM.  To each his own, I guess. 

To the suggestions in the above posts regarding casting picks, I love it! Eric Stonestreet would be a great Master Bob. As would Bob from Schitt's Creek - lol.  Also I was trying to think of Gary Busy's name - could picture his face but could not remember his name for the life of me. 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I never noticed! I was too focused on her nose.

OMG !!! Can you believe that ?

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