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The other night I caught an old episode of Dateline on Oxgyen about Peggy Sue Thomas, the ex beauty queen and her boyfriend who killed a man and then hid out in Mexico for years. 

Had seen it previously but still intrigued enough again to go down the rabbit hold to find out more where I found they made her story into a movie on Lifetime that just came out last night.  It has a bunch of actors from the Law and Order universe so I'm watching it now. If anyone is interested it's called Cirle of Deception.

I wish they had covered more about the man they killed.  Like was it true he had an affair with a man and that's what enraged his wife or was it just something they made up.  Was the boyfriend just a psycho who wanted the thrill of the kill or and he only verbally abused by the stepfather or was it sexual abuse. So many questions that none of the coverage I came across answered the really intriguing stuff.

The wife of the boyfriend too is interesting or on Dateline anyways. She stayed with him and became a drug addict and poor supporting him on the lam for years then the day before she finally was going to join him in Mexico she met a guy and turned her life around.  Or so it's spinned on Dateline. I'd like to read more about that.

https://www.seattleweekly.com/news/peggy-sue-thomas-drop-dead-gorgeous/

It's also an Ann Rule book but I don't want to buy it unless these other characters are covered, has anyone read the book?

 

 

Edited by Leilani
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4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Two sisters got killed on a cruise in the Bahamas
I'm gonna half watch it while I fold my pajamas

Thank you so, so much! 😁😁😁

I did watch the SNL skit, and loved it but it went by in a blur. I immediately forgot all the lyrics.The lines are even funnier the second time! 

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

EGO]
Wake me up when it's Munchausen by proxy

My favourite personality disorder! Mommy Dead and Dearest. Sharp Objects. 

These shows are making us awful people, aren't they? Not that I'll be stopping anytime soon. 😁

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I just watched Stealing Paradise. What a different and dramatic story! So touching how her dog kept swimming to the murderers house, and ended up taking the Panamanian police to her grave. 

One thing I've learned from Dateline that shocks me is that people can spend years in prison before their trial. That doesn't seem right. 

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The Life She Wanted. 
 

I have to rewatch this.   
 

The woman, Diane, is in jail for life and the cheating husband of the victim is too. The man’s mind control has to have been severed by now.  Especially with an ex-girlfriend saying he tried to get her to do exactly the things Diane did. 
 

I’m wondering why Diane hasn’t spit out the whole ugly truth by now.   
 

At a minimum, the two boys could possibly have a relationship with their other grandmother (Mom’s mom).  Could their father have mind control over his own parents?    
 

What will these two boys turn out to be like?  I’m kind of scared for them.  

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I kept wondering what kind of school they went to that this guy was the Big Guy on Campus.  He seemed like a creep to me.  

The husband tries to say he is having an affair with a woman but doesn't know her last name or where she lives.  Sure.

I had seen this case before but this had more details.  

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I'm really sad for Sherri's mother in that she doesn't see her grandsons.  Why would the courts give the kids to the a-hole's parents to raise -- didn't those parents raise the murdering bastard to begin with?  Why let them have another go at it?

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1 hour ago, LakeGal said:

I kept wondering what kind of school they went to that this guy was the Big Guy on Campus.  He seemed like a creep to me.  

Right?   He wasn't even attractive (imo), in fact was the opposite of a good looking guy, let alone Big Man on Campus.

What judge would allow no visitation ? Its supposed to be in the best interest of the children.

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Sherri's mom seemed like a strong, supportive parent, so I wonder how Sherri got to be a woman of such low self esteem. The guy seemed to be a master manipulator but for the life of me I did not see what was so mesmerizing about him. 

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13 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

Sherri's mom seemed like a strong, supportive parent, so I wonder how Sherri got to be a woman of such low self esteem. The guy seemed to be a master manipulator but for the life of me I did not see what was so mesmerizing about him. 

I’m sure it was the two boys.  It takes time to get beat down like she was but her boys were her reason to keep on going.  
 

I can see why Sherri tried to keep them together but I’m talking the two boys and herself.  
 

He is where he needs to be now and forever. 

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He must have some charisma that isn't captured very well through photographs. 

58 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

I wonder how Sherri got to be a woman of such low self esteem.

Abuse, man.  An abuser starts slow and all he (or she) needs to do is get his foot in the door--find that one thing where they can convince their victim that they're wrong or overreacting and then pull back so the victim questions whether or not the thing was even a big deal.  And they do it during really happy times when the positives of being with someone outweigh the negatives. 

 

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1 hour ago, Irlandesa said:

He must have some charisma that isn't captured very well through photographs. 

Abuse, man.  An abuser starts slow and all he (or she) needs to do is get his foot in the door--find that one thing where they can convince their victim that they're wrong or overreacting and then pull back so the victim questions whether or not the thing was even a big deal.  And they do it during really happy times when the positives of being with someone outweigh the negatives. 

 

And the physical stuff starts slowly within that time and happens enough to the point that one only needs to see a look. 

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14 hours ago, Ellee said:

What will these two boys turn out to be like?  I’m kind of scared for them.  

I mean they are both in their 30s now. One of them was on another show about this and stated he still believed his father was innocent.

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The Premonition. 
 

I have to wonder how John’s son, Jay-Jay, is today.   I always worry about the child. 
 

I wonder about Kevin Foley’s relationship with Michelle is like today.  He’s in jail and she got the cash. 
 

Michelle.  Oh yeah right ... she got the cash .... and since the divorce wasn’t technically finalized everything else too I guess. 
 

Still me being me ... I guess I’m most concerned about Jay-Jay’s life.  I hope his dad’s friends followed through with making sure he knows how much his dad loved him. 
 

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I am super frustrated with Dateline repackaging old stories as new, with zero updates. It's not like there haven't been other crimes to cover, ffs!

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I imagine COVID has something to do with that this season-hard to get out and talk to people about new cases with everything going on. Hence the heavy focus on older stories.

But yes, it does seem pointless if there's no real updates on some of these cases. 

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 This was such an old story but we had never seen it so it was worth watching. But what awful people. Another example of a parent killing the other parent. And making the kids think he is innocent.  Someone asked above why the grandparents couldn’t see the children. There is usually no right to grandparent visitation without a difficult custody fight. And the courts don’t necessarily remove custody from the parent who is in prison, so he had the right to give custody to his own parents. Ugh. But we’ve seen that before on dateline. They should remove custody where parent is guilty of killing the other parent. 

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21 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Sherri's mom seemed like a strong, supportive parent, so I wonder how Sherri got to be a woman of such low self esteem. 

I agree that Sherri's mom seemed strong and supportive (emphasis on the strong).  She might have been a domineering mother and created a "yes, ma'am" of a daughter.

To me, the grandma was not very warm or sympathetic.I'm thinking she didn't try to get custody of the boys. When Josh asked about how tough it must be to not see her grandsons, she turned the topic back to losing Sherri. Also, it threw me off when she took a drink from her glass. I don't recall any other Dateline interviewee having a beverage on hand.

20 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

He must have some charisma that isn't captured very well through photographs 

Actually I think he put up a good front for the cameras, always smiling and happy, like a good-natured guy. It was behind closed doors that he showed his abusive nature.

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1 hour ago, Blissfool said:

Also, it threw me off when she took a drink from her glass. I don't recall any other Dateline interviewee having a beverage on hand.

Those in the older population category can sometimes experience dry mouth.  In addition there are many medications with dry mouth as a side effect.

It’s possible Sherri’s mother has dry mouth and cannot go for any extended period of time without taking a sip of water.  It’s actually why you will see so many elderly clutching a water bottle...even in church.

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I just watched the Premonition episode.  Nothing to do with the case, I just couldn't get over how unprofessional the reporter (Andrea Canning) was dressed.  She wore two outfits that looked like she was going to a party.  One of them was a lacy see-through top.  Where's the dress code?

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9 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

I just watched the Premonition episode.  Nothing to do with the case, I just couldn't get over how unprofessional the reporter (Andrea Canning) was dressed.  She wore two outfits that looked like she was going to a party.  One of them was a lacy see-through top.  Where's the dress code?

I recall the episodes where her eyebrows were so dark, so thick and so wide that it looked like she had black duct tape above her eyes.  Groucho Marx would have killed for her eyebrows.

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10 hours ago, DonnaMae said:

She wore two outfits that looked like she was going to a party. 

I've always thought it looked like Andrea shopped for clothes in the little girls dress-up department. It's when she's out where the bodies are buried in her six inch heels that I get worried for her teensy ankles and, yes, her eyebrows changed from one scene to the next and back again in these last two shows.  She's kind of grown on me though.  It's fun to see her dressed like that while grilling murderers in prison.

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4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

She's kind of grown on me though.  It's fun to see her dressed like that while grilling murderers in prison.

Teensy ankles. 😁 My unpopular opinion is that I really like Andrea and find her very attractive. I actually like most of her clothes and jewelry. I agree at times they're weirdly fancy for the ditch or cell block or crime scene she's in, but I don't mind. At worst it makes me laugh. 

I've enjoyed her as an interviewer ever since on one show she started talking about something personal (I forget what) and almost burst into tears. It wasn't for show, and she's never mentioned it again, but it helped me see her as a real person who actually cared about some of these cases. 

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I kept wondering what kind of school they went to that this guy was the Big Guy on Campus.  He seemed like a creep to me.  

I didn't see the appeal either. 

What's sad is that such a strong woman could be desperate enough to want to hang onto a monster like this. I've seen  it time and again; some woman finds out her husband is cheating on her and eventually her entire focus is on the other woman rather than her husband. There are so many self-help books out there for women in Sherri's position and all they do is reassure them that they did nothing wrong and that men are just hard-wired cheat, so all the blame goes to the other woman.

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I'm really sad for Sherri's mother in that she doesn't see her grandsons.  Why would the courts give the kids to the a-hole's parents to raise -- didn't those parents raise the murdering bastard to begin with?  Why let them have another go at it?

They should remove custody where parent is guilty of killing the other parent. 

I know right? It just seems like common sense! The grandparents that raised this monster and, arguably, made him the kind of person he is, now wind up with his kids. Now, it's possible that Sherri's mother or anybody else in Sherri's family even tried to gain custody, they really didn't get into that. But we see this far too often as well.

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On 3/13/2021 at 10:38 AM, LakeGal said:

I kept wondering what kind of school they went to that this guy was the Big Guy on Campus.  He seemed like a creep to me.  

The husband tries to say he is having an affair with a woman but doesn't know her last name or where she lives.  Sure.

I had seen this case before but this had more details.  

He reminded me of Jim Jones of Jonestown. Not attractive in the least. 

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I can't stand Andrea Canning. 

"When he stuck the loaded gun in your face, did you think he was going to kill you?"  No Andrea, she thought he wanted a hug.

Every episode she says several similarly stupid things.  I can't even watch her anymore.  

Give me creepy Keith any day of the week over her. 

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On 3/15/2021 at 9:21 AM, Melina22 said:

Teensy ankles. 😁 My unpopular opinion is that I really like Andrea and find her very attractive. I actually like most of her clothes and jewelry. I agree at times they're weirdly fancy for the ditch or cell block or crime scene she's in, but I don't mind. At worst it makes me laugh. 

I've enjoyed her as an interviewer ever since on one show she started talking about something personal (I forget what) and almost burst into tears. It wasn't for show, and she's never mentioned it again, but it helped me see her as a real person who actually cared about some of these cases. 

I am right on board with you about Andrea. I like her a lot. I like them all, actually, for different reasons. 
 

I’m guessing she gets “styled” for each episode. 

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On 3/15/2021 at 12:21 PM, Melina22 said:

Teensy ankles. 😁 My unpopular opinion is that I really like Andrea and find her very attractive. I actually like most of her clothes and jewelry. I agree at times they're weirdly fancy for the ditch or cell block or crime scene she's in, but I don't mind. At worst it makes me laugh. 

I've enjoyed her as an interviewer ever since on one show she started talking about something personal (I forget what) and almost burst into tears. It wasn't for show, and she's never mentioned it again, but it helped me see her as a real person who actually cared about some of these cases. 

I feel like I rememberr that and it made me like her more too. I want to say she mentioned her husband or kids and it prompted me to look her up to see that her husband is, or was in the military, and she has I think 5 kids. 

Also, if you like her jewelry, she often wears Kendra Scott. 

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"When he stuck the loaded gun in your face, did you think he was going to kill you?"  No Andrea, she thought he wanted a hug.

Every episode she says several similarly stupid things.  I can't even watch her anymore.  

LOL. I don't really mind her that much (I'm sort of obsessed with her jewelry) but she does tend to say stupidly obvious things like that.

Anyone catch last Thursday's about the group solving the Jane Doe mystery? Pretty fascinating stuff, but ultimately a sad story. What I didn't get was that the guy they eventually arrested was initially interrogated but found to have an alibi. Did that later fall through?

Edited by iMonrey
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I watched it. I thought that was a different guy. I thought the person that they finally nabbed was a stranger to her. She was selling magazines in a parking lot and he grabbed her at random. I already forget! Actually I watch so many of these shows that I get the cases mixed up. It's great that those people are able to bring justice to these victims but it seems to kind of borders on obsessive.  

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No it was the same guy, the one they questioned at the outset of the investigation. He was a known sex offender but first they said he had an alibi. Fast forward an hour and forty five minutes to the DNA results and what do you know? It was that guy.

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The Waiting Car  This kind of thing makes me both sad and angry.  How can young women who are smart enough to be in college think that earning money by having sex with strangers is a good idea?  I liked the way Keith questioned the "experienced" know-it-all sugar baby woman.  She thought she could say it was empowering and Keith would just nod agreement, but he gave her his, "Are you kidding me?" look  and asked her just how it was empowering.  She didn't have  much of an  answer, unless demanding money up front is particularly empowering.  Also now we know the difference between a sugar baby and a prostitute -- monthly pay vs hourly. 

My heart breaks for  Mackenzie and her parents.  I'd like to see the jerk who started that website in prison next to the murderer.

The Daybells tonight!

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Yeah it's hard not to victim blame when someone is on a website looking for sugar daddies and meeting strange men alone at a park at 3:00 in the morning. It made me cringe to hear them describe Mackenzie as "bright" and "innocent," frankly. Sure, I try not to judge, but talk about playing with fire.

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22 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

How can young women who are smart enough to be in college think that earning money by having sex with strangers is a good idea?  I liked the way Keith questioned the "experienced" know-it-all sugar baby woman.  She thought she could say it was empowering and Keith would just nod agreement, but he gave her his, "Are you kidding me?" look  and asked her just how it was empowering.

Keith's expression was perfect. Pretty sure I had the same look on my face. Yeah, do what you want, I guess, but I really don't get the point of those kinds of sites or relationships. 

And I am shocked, shocked, I tell you, that a site like that was created by a man. 

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Created by a man who was looking to buy meet women. 

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5 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

The Daybells tonight!

My plan was to rewatch Avengers: Endgame tonight, then I saw Mommy Doomsday was on. Of course I'm going to watch, although part of me hates to go back into the darkness. I hope there are lots of new interviews. 

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Okay, that was really good. I'm relieved they assumed we already knew most of it, and filled it with all new interviews. 

It doesn't matter how many times I hear about this story, it always boggles my mind. No wonder people are obsessed with it. How long before they make it into a movie? 

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I’m about to watch it right now.   

I hope the end is near for ‘their storyline’.   All I’ve got right now. 

ETA:

Joe was murdered.  Joe was not a child molester.  The temper — most likely true — not the first person nor the last.  It would be interesting to hear what the people he worked with day to day say.  I’m sure the officials have done that.   Hope someone around Colby has his back as he will need it if realization that what he has said about abuse is proven not true. 
 

When Lori is ‘spewing her tales’, does the cadence in her speech change?  
 

Charles Vallow had children with his 2nd wife?  Don’t think that I knew that.  
 

Interesting hearing about the different phases of these men’s lives.  Lori had a ‘type’ and ran/murdered when they caught on to her.   
 

 

Edited by Ellee
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14 hours ago, Annber03 said:
15 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

How can young women who are smart enough to be in college think that earning money by having sex with strangers is a good idea?  I liked the way Keith questioned the "experienced" know-it-all sugar baby woman.  She thought she could say it was empowering and Keith would just nod agreement, but he gave her his, "Are you kidding me?" look  and asked her just how it was empowering.

Keith's expression was perfect. Pretty sure I had the same look on my face. Yeah, do what you want, I guess, but I really don't get the point of those kinds of sites or relationships. 

Major side-eye at the journalist millennial saying being a paid sexual/emotional support pet to some older socially deficient man is “empowering”.  Then when Keith asked the “professional” Sugar Baby how much money this arrangement brings in, she rephrased his words, and said “My allowance is $1200/month”.  Getting an allowance is empowering for a 12 year old. But  for 20-something year olds, that is called “being kept”, and admitting your role in the relationship is subservient, and also, see the definition of “prostitution”.

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(Daybells)

I went to bed thinking about that pat on the rear.  They killed her two children, stuffed them into plastic boxes, and lugged them into a storage locker.  As they walk away he gives her a playful pat on the bottom.  And they dare to talk about other people being "in darkness."

I loved how Keith put them in their place at the end saying they weren't special after all but just dust like the rest of us.   That's probably the worst thing you could say to them. 

The two sexual abuse specialists might dress oddly, but they were a smart little twosome.

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Charles’ two sons with his second wife are staying away publicly from all of this.  Can’t say that I blame them.  Now I want the correct outcome to happen soon — for their sake and all the others that have been affected by this. 
 

Daybell may think he’s the ‘chosen one’ but Lori is definitely the one calling the shots.   It’s a wonder that after all this time he hasn’t realized she will do whatever it takes for him to be the blame for it all — even the deaths before she knew him.  

What has the church/worshippers saying about them?  Anything?  


 

 

 

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That lady friend of Lori's I remember from the last show on this. She seemed quite self-satisfied and above it all when talking to Keith, but then had gems like: "I thought Lori meant that if Charles was a zombie and going to die that he would just die and the zombie would come out of him." (or whatever shit she said). 

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I think you're referring to Melanie She was so weird in that she didn't seem to have issues with anything they did, not Charles' death, or the adultery with Chad. Or claiming to be celestial beings. It all seemed fine with her until Laurie expected Melanie to provide an alibi, and suddenly it was a bridge too far. I found her very sketchy. 

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I think I’d run from any one of these people if I knew them. Fast, real fast.  Re-evaluate my life.  Wonder where I went wrong.  

Edited by Ellee
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4 hours ago, Ellee said:

What has the church/worshippers saying about them?  Anything?  

 

I'd like to hear more from their little cult, too?  I expect they've all scattered by now except for Melanie whose smug idiocy @TVbitch described perfectly.  She holds  responsibility for supporting the Daybells as long as she did.  Her radio show must have been a real trip.

It infuriates me when wackos site "scripture" that not only isn't in the Bible, but is at direct odds with anything Jesus ever said.  Jesus' forgive people "70 times 70," doesn't quite compute with Lolo's "three times and I get to murder him."

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17 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Created by a man who was looking to buy meet women. 

But see, that's the thing...yes, it was created by a man, but it takes women to sign up and meet the men.  And on what planet EVER does any woman believe that somehow, these "allowances" aren't going to end up at sex?  I mean, yes, it might not be an "every time" transaction like a prostitute, but I'm sorry, I don't buy that, at some point, sex doesn't happen.  Women bear some culpability for the risk they take by signing up for sites like this one.  By definition, this site is risky.

Now, on to the Daybells.  Every time Dateline does a report on this case, I think I'm prepared, but I never am.  Some prosecutor somewhere better be filing a charge with the word "murder" in it for both Chad and Lori.  It is utterly infuriating to know just how far this went back, and it couldn't be stopped, even in court.  Tylee seemed doomed once she turned five.

And natural causes my ass.  I think Lori poisoned Joe, Tammy, and Alex.  Joe's face was swollen before he died.  Alex died of blood clots.  I think there's a connection there, and as we've learned from watching true crime shows, poison doesn't always show up in toxicology unless you're screening for a specific substance.

I agree with Tylee's aunt: I've heard about the condition of Tylee's remains more than once, but it's still horrific each time I hear it again.

FRY. THEM. BOTH.

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Does anyone know how Lori’s sister died?  Jealousy??? I know her sister was young. 
 

I wonder how their tell all books are progressing.  Booking any speaking engagements to spread their word?   How many hair clients does Lori have?  

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It doesn't matter how many times I hear about this story, it always boggles my mind. No wonder people are obsessed with it.

I'm not sure I fully grasp why people are obsessed with this particular case. I understand the mystery it held before the children's remains were found. But it seems to me like the outrage expressed over this case is specific to the fact that a woman killed her children, as though that is somehow more heinous than killing a spouse, or a parent, or any other significant other. I think of Andrea Yates, Susan Smith, and Casey Anthony and the media frenzy and hysteria over those cases, and as a regular consumer of shows like Dateline I'm taken aback by the outsized reaction. Like we've become so desensitized to "run of the mill" murders but have to draw the line when the victim is  someone's child. As though children are somehow more valuable than adults or something.

I also get the impression there's an element of religious bias connected with this case because of the affiliation with the LDS. People feel validated to say "Look how crazy their beliefs are, it led them to murdering their own children." Murderers come in all stripes and from every religion, and I'm not comfortable assigning blame to any one belief system over another. I don't have the statistics on hand but I'm willing to bet the percentage of murders committed by members of the LDS is lower than other religions.

I don't have children, and I suspect there is a lot of projection going on with this case, so that's not something I can really relate to. It's a fascinating case, to be sure, and I understand the interest by anyone who follows true crime stories. I just don't have a higher level of indignation or vitriol over it than any other murder case. 

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I’m old.  Some things I can’t let go.

  Every day there are articles upon articles of children being murdered/starved or beaten by those that are supposed to love and care for them.   Babies are supposed to grow up and experience life.  It’s how it is supposed to be.   

As far as Susan Smith or Casey Anthony goes I was just as riled as I am now.  Susan Smith begging someone to come forward ... can still see her standing there begging for the kids to come home or Casey Anthony’s  multitude of stories...Andrea Yates...SMH.   I just didn’t post then.  Wasn’t even aware of these sites.

Vallow gets under my skin because you can see how vain she is. Her need for notoriety/fame outweighs the lives of many.

Edited by Ellee
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I think one reason the case is so fascinating is that the authorities have only proved that the two kids were murdered.   Then, there are the dead husbands, and wives, the others that probably were murders that will never be proven, or prosecuted.    The number of people around this woman that either died suddenly, or in the case of the children, were murdered, is staggering.   

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think of Andrea Yates, Susan Smith, and Casey Anthony and the media frenzy and hysteria over those cases, and as a regular consumer of shows like Dateline I'm taken aback by the outsized reaction. Like we've become so desensitized to "run of the mill" murders but have to draw the line when the victim is  someone's child. As though children are somehow more valuable than adults or something.

I was thinking about this. I can think of a few reasons. One is that in most cultures, the love for a mother for her child is generally considered the purest, most altruistic love there is. Obviously this isn't always the case but in reality so many mothers (and fathers to be fair) would literally run into a burning building to save their child. So a mother who deliberately injures or murders her child horrifies everyone. It's also pretty rare. 

I also think fear plays a big part. If a woman with a severe, visible addiction or mental problem kills her children, people are upset but not necessarily shocked. But when someone like Lori Vallow or Susan Smith or Andrea Yates does it, women with tons of videos showing them doting on their children and looking happy and NORMAL, it shocks and terrifies everyone, much like hearing about a Russell Williams or a Ted Bundy does. If they can commit these heinous crimes, anybody can, and no one's safe. It's very scary, and probably drives much of our obsession with these shows. 

Finally, I bet most people DO consider children more valuable than adults. I'm not saying that's correct, just that I think most people think that. 

 

Edited by Melina22
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