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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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12 hours ago, Ohmo said:

In the first article .... ‘white camps’ ????   In addition to being a cult ... is it ‘selective’ in the members it allows or does this term mean something different in cult language?  (No 3 on the list)

Also regarding the 2nd article ... the jury pool is already tainted.  SMH anytime there are children involved there are strong emotions.   One can’t help it.  Show it all.  The evidence will dictate if they are innocent or guilty. 

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7 hours ago, Ellee said:

In the first article .... ‘white camps’ ????   In addition to being a cult ... is it ‘selective’ in the members it allows or does this term mean something different in cult language?  (No 3 on the list)

Like I said when this story originally aired, the fact they had this little gathering up in rural Idaho, where a lot of white supremacist/neo-Nazi groups like to hang out, is very telling. My guess is those camps would have something to do with that somehow-another way to help build up a coalition of people with those kinds of beliefs or something. 

37 minutes ago, Ellee said:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/parents-charged-with-murder-after-cops-find-missing-toddler-s-burned-remains-in-fire-pit/ar-BB179KZD?li=BBnbcA1

WTF is wrong with people anymore!!! There’s probably a dozen more links for other kids that I could post. 

From that article...

Quote

Thaddeus’ mother has previously been investigated over the death of another child, an infant daughter who died in 2015, according to The Fresno Bee. The woman’s attorney told the paper she has since been cleared of any wrongdoing.

Gee. Almost like there were some potential warning signs or something. Yeah, the attorney says she's been cleared, but two children of yours dying, and one of them being murdered at that...it's tough to see that as a mere coincidence. 

Awful story. 

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I just finished watching Family Business. I thought it was really, really interesting and good. To be honest, it was a relief to watch a Dateline that didn't involve some poor woman being victimized for a change. But seeing little Fabian crying while recounting trying to get help for his dad felt way realer and more upsetting than 90% of what I usually see on this show. 

The show treated Fabian's family and Pete and his family with a lot of respect. I hope watching the show was somewhat healing for them. 

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1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Just checking in to make sure we’re all here. 🙂

One of the 144,000 present and accounted for! I’m pretty sure I’m not a zombie, but how can you really know these things? 

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Well, there’s no telling what I may do. I had a CT scan with dye at a nearby hospital. They said that it would take 6-8 weeks to get out of my system. Maybe I can hold up a sign and light the way for them to death row? 

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That poor child.    And just because some attorney claims the mother was cleared in a previous child's death, I want to see an official confirmation, and they should investigate the previous child's death again.

Yes, I'm still here, so if that was the rapture, I flunked.   

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re: Family Business

I loved the Ayala family and felt so sorry for them. I hope the 3 kids go on to have happy, successful lives just like their father would have wanted and it sure looks like they're on their way.

The lawyer that Paul hired was just a goon. If Keith Morrison can make you look ridiculous in a sit down interview I hate to think how she came across in court. She's exactly what Paul deserves. Pete seemed like a good man.

The closing seconds: (shot of the large Moore family) "A family worth millions..." (pan to a shot of the Ayalas) "...and another worth much more." Damn, Dateline. This is why I can't quit you. 

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9 hours ago, thejuicer said:

The closing seconds: (shot of the large Moore family) "A family worth millions..." (pan to a shot of the Ayalas) "...and another worth much more." Damn, Dateline. This is why I can't quit you. 

I know! What a burn. 😁

 

9 hours ago, thejuicer said:

The lawyer that Paul hired was just a goon. If Keith Morrison can make you look ridiculous in a sit down interview I hate to think how she came across in court. She's exactly what Paul deserves. Pete seemed like a good man.

I disliked her immediately, then worried it was just because of her ridiculous jewelry and sparkly outfit. But finally I decided I just really, really dislike lawyers who loudly defend their clients after the trial even though you know for certain that they know they're guilty, and especially when they defend them by trashing innocent people. 

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Dippolito's mother finally said the father of the baby was also the father of the first child she had. 

From the Palm Beach Post, August 10 and 16 2017:

"After some hesitation and defense objections, Dippolito’s mother said “James” was really Robert William Davis, the 33-year-old father of Dippolito’s 16-month-old son and that he had lived with Dippolito at her mother’s home for about the past year she spent on house arrest before her second conviction.

Davis’ arrest records list several charges and includes decade-old convictions on felony drug and battery charges. His most recent local arrest was in 2011 for a fleeing and eluding case that prosecutors later dropped."

Here's the link to the entire article. 

https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/identity-dalia-dippolito-baby-father-revealed-during-hearing/G43pfbLEVhTrKfIy9b21vK/

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On 7/25/2020 at 6:37 PM, CrazyInAlabama said:

That poor child.    And just because some attorney claims the mother was cleared in a previous child's death, I want to see an official confirmation, and they should investigate the previous child's death again.

Being cleared is sometimes synonymous with "not enough evidence to go to trial" too.

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Last night's, "In Cold Blood," was a rare one where the philandering husband didn't do it, but I disliked him so much I almost wished he could go to prison alongside the murderer.  First the husband decides he's justified in having affairs because his beautiful wife gained a little weight due to some medication she had to take, then,  because he's too lazy to do his own household chores he invites ex-con, drug addict Lance to come and live in with them.  Hubby even shows Lance where they keep the house key under the stone dog on the porch (how clever!).  After Lance had been kicked out (for being too stoned to do any work) he breaks in one day, thinking the couple is gone, with the intention of stealing enough stuff to get some more drugs but stops long enough to watch some hard core porn.  So he was just in the right mood to rape and kill the wife when she discovers him there.  In the beginning the police asked hubby if he suspected Lance and he says, "Oh no! Lance loved my wife, he'd take a bullet for her."  SMH.

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I thought for sure the husband would have at least have hired the guy to do it, cuz he was just such a dry tears, crime scene defiling, red herring throwing, cheating piece of shit. He was the kind of guy who immediately turns your stomach, before you know anything about him. I still think even if he didn't have anything to do with the murder of his wife, he was relieved to have her taken off his hands. The TV guy said he was totally ignoring her, and he admitted to having an affair ...but, you know, what was the poor guy to do, his wife had gained a bit of weight from her depression medication and hadn't had sex with him in weeks. WEEKS, y'all!  

 

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Last night's, "In Cold Blood," was a rare one where the philandering husband didn't do it, but I disliked him so much I almost wished he could go to prison alongside the murderer. 

I know right? I couldn't shake the feeling that he wasn't completely innocent, even if the other guy confessed. It was almost like he was covering for the murderer.

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On 7/22/2020 at 1:50 PM, nora1992 said:

I guess I can’t delay my bills any more.

 

On 7/23/2020 at 11:58 AM, Ellee said:

I don’t know about anyone else but my yesterday was pretty much the same as the day before and the day before that.  And so far, life is no different today.  
 

 

On 7/23/2020 at 5:51 PM, Lsk02 said:

Yep, checking in. Still alive here. 
 

 

On 7/25/2020 at 11:07 AM, cooksdelight said:

Just checking in to make sure we’re all here. 🙂

 

On 7/25/2020 at 1:02 PM, Lsk02 said:

One of the 144,000 present and accounted for! I’m pretty sure I’m not a zombie, but how can you really know these things? 

I'm still here, too!  ::waves::  And I kept my 7/23 gyno appointment 😉

On 8/1/2020 at 4:43 PM, JudyObscure said:

Last night's, "In Cold Blood," was a rare one where the philandering husband didn't do it, but I disliked him so much I almost wished he could go to prison alongside the murderer.  ...  After Lance had been kicked out (for being too stoned to do any work) he breaks in one day, thinking the couple is gone, with the intention of stealing enough stuff to get some more drugs but stops long enough to watch some hard core porn.  

I had to SMH when the husband was so emphatic about that not being his porn.  We kept riffing on the LivePD trope of "Drugs?  Those are not my drugs!"  "Oh, the drugs are in the car?  This is not my car!"  "What's that, you found drug in my pants pocket?  THESE ARE NOT MY PANTS!"

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33 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Any news on the Vallow case? I keep thinking about it. 

I’m waiting too.  I think Daybell has some proceedings this morning.   
 

I’m really wondering about the autopsies.  The kids, Tammy Daybill, Vallow’s Brother, what’s his name, and also her two husbands that are dead.  Charles was definitely a murder in my eyes.  It will be interesting to see what if anything was in his system. And my personal thoughts are that Tylee’s dad was also murdered. 

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@druzy

Thanks for the link.  I’ve had it on in the background.  
 

Is this typically what lawyers do?  I find one of them very annoying but what do I know. 

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For what purpose would ‘they’ have duct taped JJ the way they did unless he was alive or ‘they’ thought he may still be alive?

Hope the fellow inmates of both were able to watch this.  

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I'm sure if their fellow inmates didn't hear about the testimony, that everyone who visits will be glad to share that information.   I wish both future inmates would be stupid enough to demand to be put in the general population. 

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4 hours ago, Ellee said:

For what purpose would ‘they’ have duct taped JJ the way they did unless he was alive or ‘they’ thought he may still be alive?

Well, since they missed the second coming on July 23, I guess it was so he wouldn’t broadcast all their secrets. They were zombies, after all.

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J.J. Vallow ‘Would Not Be Found,’ Missing Boy’s Uncle Allegedly Told Lori Vallow’s Friend

This morning on CBS, legal analyst Rikki Klieman (who I like) said that the best way for prosecutors to file murder charges is to get one of them to flip on the other.

I will spit if they try to pin all of this on Alex, and the jury buys it.  Please no.  Chad is disgusting, but if it's necessary to flip him to make sure Lori never sees the light of day again, that is what must happen.  Either that or some miracle evidence falls from the sky so prosecutors don't have to give either one of them a deal.

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No, no, no!   To get them both — one has to flip??? With all the deaths connected to them? 
 

With the kids ... the bags, the duct tape, the location, the pail even ... there has to be a way to connect them both.  Just has to be a way.  

If the ability to connect them both is why it seems to be taking forever to get results, hope the authorities take as long as they need then.  As long as these two stay right where they are at. 

 

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2 hours ago, Ellee said:

No, no, no!   To get them both — one has to flip??? With all the deaths connected to them? 
 

I totally agree! It's not that complicated! 

When this is all over I'm hoping Dateline does a final episode. I'd almost watch a movie reenacting it all, although the fact that children were killed makes me unsure if I could face watching it. 

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Great clip, druzy. That phone call was really damning, the way Lori never once sounded surprised or asked what they were searching for. 

They both came across as very "poor me". I don't expect them to show any genuine remorse. 

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I was watching the rerun on Oxygen of "Haunting", where there are two murders, five years apart of two people each, in Nebraska, one of the victims was an 11 year old boy.   That's the one where the killer is a man  (Dr. Anthony Garcia), who blamed everything that went wrong in his life on the doctors that tossed him out of a medical residency program.    Dr. Garcia was sentenced to death by a three judge panel later.  

I was disgusted at the behavior of the defense team.   One attorney on the defense team was later disbarred for ethical violations, the husband and wife team of defenders were so antagonistic to the judge that he refused the wife permission to practice in Nebraska.   

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Angels and Demons was new to me.  I just don't understand how grown adults can think someone's going to make them immortal, keep them safe, or whatever other crap that cult leaders promise.  People seem so willing to abdicate their own thought process at almost the drop of a hat...and, by the way give these whack jobs all of their money.  Daniel Perez is clearly mentally ill, but I don't feel sorry for those who are criminally mentally ill like he is.  I think criminally deviant mental illness can't be fixed, and it's a threat to people like Sarah and Emily.  Best to just keep Daniel locked away from society.

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I couldn’t believe that any mother would let her daughters spend time alone with a non related man much less live alone with him in a house. I also don’t understand why people didn’t leave after he predicted their death . Did he do something to the plane and that woman’s car? This episode was very creepy.

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Ohmo's link contains a video of Charles Vallow talking to the police, one I hadn't seen before, dated 1-19-2019.   He tells the policeman that Lori has threatened, on different occasions,  to "kill" him, to "destroy" him and to "murder" him.  A short time later he ends up shot in the chest by Lori's brother.  A year and a half later they charge her with conspiracy to commit murder.  What took them so long?  It's so sad, he sounds like such a nice man.

The link says they did do a mental health evaluation and Lori was considered sane.  She is sane!  She's just a cold blooded murderer.  Why couldn't they believe that?

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23 hours ago, Ohmo said:

Angels and Demons was new to me.  I just don't understand how grown adults can think someone's going to make them immortal, keep them safe, or whatever other crap that cult leaders promise.  People seem so willing to abdicate their own thought process at almost the drop of a hat...and, by the way give these whack jobs all of their money.  Daniel Perez is clearly mentally ill, but I don't feel sorry for those who are criminally mentally ill like he is.  I think criminally deviant mental illness can't be fixed, and it's a threat to people like Sarah and Emily.  Best to just keep Daniel locked away from society.

Angels and Demons was new to me as well. I read the description and it didn't ring a bell so I recorded it. I am always fascinated (and a bit infuriated, if I'm being honest) at these cult like "leaders" who people just gravitate to, lose their common sense, and actually believe this nonsense. Yes - keep this dude away from society, he won't stop what he's doing. 

19 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I couldn’t believe that any mother would let her daughters spend time alone with a non related man much less live alone with him in a house. I also don’t understand why people didn’t leave after he predicted their death . Did he do something to the plane and that woman’s car? This episode was very creepy.

This drives me bananas too - amother letting their daughters spend time with this dude. I mean come on! I feel the same way about parents who let their boys spend time with Michael Jackson, or parents who let their kids spend time alone with a priest. Totally unacceptable.

This may come across as victim shaming, but it also surprises me that how kids/teens could have believed Daniel (and I forget what name they new him as) too. I myself was wary of adults and never took anything they said as face value. If I learned that some dude was a "seer", could predict people's deaths, and had been around for hundred of years -- as a 9 year old kid I would have never believed it and told my mom not to believe it either. I guess I was always suspicious or cautious as a kid, and questioned some stuff that my parents would say too. 

This was a good episode though. I am glad to see the girls, although traumatized, have moved on with their lives. 

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4 hours ago, hookedontv said:

f I learned that some dude was a "seer", could predict people's deaths, and had been around for hundred of years -- as a 9 year old kid I would have never believed it and told my mom not to believe it either.

Maybe so, but as a 9 year-old, it's very difficult to go up against your parent as the authority figure even if you're right. Emily had no authority or ability to make her mother do anything.

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I'm halfway through "The Carrollton Plot". I was happy to finally see a happy, functional family, but right away Frank's constant travel raised a red flag for me. And sure enough... 

I really, really hate the word "mistress". This isn't 1800s Paris. If a man has a mistress, what does a woman have? A master? Yuck, that's even more horrible. We should settle for "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". 

Poor Nancy. You're blind in one eye and your husband calls to tell you he's been in love with his girlfriend for 3 years. Talk about a bad day. 

I liked the daughters. 

ETA This story is just getting weirder and weirder. No idea where it's going. Amazing how many men DIDN'T want to kill her. 

ETA2 Nooooo! Not Frank! I'm gobsmacked! Why isn't he interviewing from jail? 

ETA3. Wow, that was intense. I have a million questions. This story would make an incredible book or movie. I feel like it isn't over yet. 

Other than the Vallow case, this is probably the best Dateline I've watched in a really long time. So many layers. I want to go back and watch it again, knowing what I know, sort of like I do with movies like Gone Girl. 

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5 hours ago, Toothbrush said:

Love how you had to keep editing your post the more you watched. This was a twisty one! 

This was the rare Dateline where they totally fooled me for the first hour. When they were about to reveal who John was I was riveted, because I didn't have one clue who would throw around huge sums of money indiscriminately to a group of clueless criminals, all to kill some obscure, random woman. When they showed Frank's face at the wheel of the car I was totally shocked and weirdly upset. 

And after all the dust settles we find out he was also an embezzler on a huge scale. How did he think this was all going to turn out beautifully for him? 

Also, no offense to the Other Woman, but she looked disappointingly ordinary to be the motivation for this insane plot. She was no Angelina Jolie. 😁😁

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On 8/10/2020 at 6:18 AM, Melina22 said:

I'm halfway through "The Carrollton Plot". I was happy to finally see a happy, functional family, but right away Frank's constant travel raised a red flag for me. And sure enough... 

I really, really hate the word "mistress". This isn't 1800s Paris. If a man has a mistress, what does a woman have? A master? Yuck, that's even more horrible. We should settle for "boyfriend" and "girlfriend". 

Poor Nancy. You're blind in one eye and your husband calls to tell you he's been in love with his girlfriend for 3 years. Talk about a bad day. 

I liked the daughters. 

ETA This story is just getting weirder and weirder. No idea where it's going. Amazing how many men DIDN'T want to kill her. 

ETA2 Nooooo! Not Frank! I'm gobsmacked! Why isn't he interviewing from jail? 

ETA3. Wow, that was intense. I have a million questions. This story would make an incredible book or movie. I feel like it isn't over yet. 

Other than the Vallow case, this is probably the best Dateline I've watched in a really long time. So many layers. I want to go back and watch it again, knowing what I know, sort of like I do with movies like Gone Girl. 

I loved this episode too - so many twists but I respectfully disagree about the daughters.  The one with the longer blond hair BUGGED me, she seemed to like talking about it a bit too much plus they sided with their dad!!!  He hired someone to kill you.  He is a thief.  He is an adulterer.  He was with the chippy when he got the call about his wife - he thought it would be to say she is dead but nope, the Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight fouled THAT up, too!

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3 hours ago, Mrs. Hanson said:

l loved this episode too - so many twists but I respectfully disagree about the daughters.  The one with the longer blond hair BUGGED me, 

To be honest, I liked them better at the beginning of the episode than I did at the end. I don't understand why they were estranged from their mother for so long, or why they wouldn't sit with her at the trial. This makes me think that as convoluted as the story was that was presented on the show, there are layers we still haven't seen. 

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I couldn't stand the daughters, or the son.    They sided with the embezzling father who hired a hitman to kill their mother.    I was surprised the mother survived, but she is blind in one eye, has a lot of other after effects, and her own children were demanding that she testify in favor of clemency for her ex-husband.     

I think the adult children sided with the one with the money, and that's not their mother.   They certainly take after their father, don't they?  I think poor Nancy should give up on her children, because if they ever contact her, it won't be to apologize, or say they miss her, they'll have some gain in mind.  Last I read, she's living off of a little disability money, and that's about it.    

He also gave several million in homes, and other gifts to the girl friend, and her daughter.   His employer will never get the millions back that Frank Howard embezzled.   The girlfriend and her kid were also shadow employees of the company, including huge salaries, full benefits, and never did any work.      He also donated over $200,000 to his church, and the company tried to sue the church to get the money back.   The church officials acknowledge that it was stolen money, but refused to return it either.    

The man received life in prison.    My guess is the awful children will be there for daddy, until the money runs out.  

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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7 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

The man received life in prison. 

And he will be eligible for parole when he is 85!  His ass licking kids will be there, I am sure to help spring him.

 

7 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

Last I read, she's living off of a little disability money, and that's about it. 

I read an article where she was working as a legal assistant, so that is good.  She wrote a book called "A Journey Back to Shore" as that is her maiden name but the reviews were mixed.  She never addresses why the kids sided with their dad, and it seems like a fluff piece.  She openly admits in another interview that she would have remarried him if he had been acquitted!!

Yes, I get raising your kids to love and honor thier dad, but isn't the best gift a man  can give to his kids is to love and honor their mom?  Not cheating on her for three years then trying to kill her?

Edited to add:  She can not smell nor taste anything.  She has a hard time hugging as nerve damage makes it hard for her to touch.  Her husband called her on the phone, when she just got out of ICU, to blab that he was a cheating horndog.  But the kids side with him.  

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