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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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On 2/1/2020 at 12:53 PM, saber5055 said:

I watched all of Abducted, then when they got to the part about the body in the trunk of the car, I realized this was a pretty recent news story. Dateline filled up an hour with pretty much nothing, the same stuff over and over to stretch the hour out.

Agree Andrea is a waste of time as an interviewer for these kinds of stories.

The show never said, as far as I heard, that Meygan (so many different spellings of her name) really wasn't pregnant so had to be faking all along with plans to kidnap Heidi's baby.

The show also didn't mention how much Heidi weighed and how someone of Meygan's size and strength could put dead Heidi in a duffle bag and then lift it into the trunk of a car. Where does one buy a human-sized duffle bag?

I always wondered why the car with the body inside was left parked at the house. If I were the murderer, I would have gotten rid of the evidence instead of just letting it sit in the back yard.

I wonder where the tip came from that sent Houston and Austin cops to Meygan's Houston house.

Last tip taken from this show: Always turn off your cell phones folks, or leave them at home if you plan to do something illegal.

My husband plays hockey.  His hockey bag is definitely big enough to fit a human or even two, depending on how big they are.

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I agree with y'all that abducted was poorly told. Too much about the friends. Then all that business with the podcast women. Who cares?! 

And that one friend that was really into making it known that SHE was the BFF was OTT. Especially when she was talking about the deceased's son. How she feels he is her son and she's gonna be in his life forever and stuff.  

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On 2/2/2020 at 11:26 AM, Irlandesa said:

 

The other Saturday Dateline episode was frustrating.  Did it really take eight years before someone bothered to look into the past of the boyfriend? I hope they convict him for his first wife's murder as well.

It illustrates why it is somewhat the luck of the draw in terms of the competence and diligence of the detectives on the case. In retrospect, many of the detectives I have seen in true crime shows would have checked out the boyfriend's background as a matter of course. Obviously the detectives on the case did a half assed job and took at face value his demeanor. It couldn't have been anyone except the boyfriend. How did they miss the fact that certain windows were not on her surveillance videos - this would seem to be an obvious thing to check as it is not the first time when a body was dropped out of a window rather than carried. In fact, it seems as though dropping a body out a window in the dead of night is easier than shlepping an adult women around.

I also don't think one can discount the factor of her not being a blonde twenty year old Caucasian woman. THAT scenario would probably have caused greater detecting energy.

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Women aren't in the hospital for very long after giving birth. In my experience, only family visit the hospital. 

It's somewhat of an intrusion on the family unless there are really extenuating circumstances in terms of why a friend is there. Hospital rooms are small and obviously the family thought there was something off in her being there as well as how she was interacting with the family and the baby.

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On 2/2/2020 at 4:15 PM, Whimsy said:

My husband plays hockey.  His hockey bag is definitely big enough to fit a human or even two, depending on how big they are.

I was going to click the "useful" button but then thought nah just click the "heart".

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I watched ‘Devil’s Bargain’ this morning.  SMDH.  How in the world could that woman fall for a man that wanted her to kill, go to do it 3 times, chicken out and then help him ‘clean up’ his crime scene?  Never one thought to go to the authorities before it happened?    Or even one thought of ‘this could be me’ and again ... oh ... go to the authorities ... say ... before it happened. She deserved a helluva lot more than 3 years.  As much as it disgusts me to say this I’d watch another show of her and WTF was going through her mind and on in her life that this scenario played out like this.   

I’m not exactly proud of this ... but as far as I’m concerned that man deserved death by bat for his sentence. 
 

 

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I couldn’t believe the woman didn’t go to police!! She could have avoided jail time and would have saved someone’s life in the process. She should have been sentenced to a lot more time. A LOT more.

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Krystal even had children of her own to think of.  Heck there's not  a man in the world I would drive 13 miles to see, even if we were going to do something more fun than shovel horse manure.  Then to help him kill a woman for no reason?  I don't think she was stupid enough to ever believe for one minute the lie that Kelsey was beating the baby.   What in the world was so special about Patrick that she would do all that for him?

I'm beginning to think the most dangerous thing in the world a woman can do is get pregnant by a man she's not married to. 

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I’ve seen this story before, but I still don’t understand the asshole’s motive for killing the mother of his child so brutally.  Insurance money?  Pissed off because she broke up with him?  Mad because she asked him to keep the baby so she could get some rest?  I don’t understand.  If it was plain old rage that Kelsey discovered his affair with the Rodeo Queen, did they ever say that?  I don’t recall Dateline coming up with a real reason.  The asshole told his “beauty queen” (really??? Maybe in a town of 3000, I guess??) Kelsey was abusing the baby but that was just his ruse to get her to do the deed. 

I am also baffled by the police investigation and the search of Kelsey’ condo after she went missing. They had no forensic team in there until Rodeo Ho brought them there for a tour? And that sociopath was able to clean that much blood spatter off 18’ white walls and ceilings in only 4 hours?? 

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2 hours ago, BusyOctober said:

They had no forensic team in there until Rodeo Ho brought them there for a tour? And that sociopath was able to clean that much blood spatter off 18’ white walls and ceilings in only 4 hours?? 

Well she did leave a big streaky mess and blood in more places than the planned baby gate and one spot.  Yes, the detectives did a lazy job.

I did think it was implied that the breaking off via cellphone was done, not by Kelsey, but  by Rodeo Ho (good name) after she grabbed Kelsey's phone.

I think his only motive was to stop having to pay child support and maybe  custody of the baby.

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It seemed like I had seen this story before, the Rodeo Ho Murder Case (ha!), but my tv guide said it was new. It was just very familiar.

I didn't get why Rodeo Ho kept waiting in Kelsey's front yard with a baseball bat and/or pipe. Was she going to kill Kelsey right there in front of the neighbors? I also have absolutely no reasoning or theory why she agreed, then backed out of, killing Kelsey three times. Then agreeing to clean up the murder-torium. WTH.

But then again, I've come to realize this world is full of half-witted morons so I don't know why I'm expecting logic.

And the driving 13-16 hours to see some dude. What, he didn't have a car/pickup truck of his own? I know distances between towns are large in the west, but I kept thinking about how much gasoline was costing, so much that she couldn't afford a Motel 6 so slept in gas-station parking lots. I also questioned paying that much for one-half of a horse. If it was the horse that kept being pictured, she got screwed on that purchase, if not by Patrick himself.

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I think Dateline covered this before but it ended around the time they arrested the fiance.  Or maybe even convicted him.

What's new for sure was the sentence for the rodeo ho.

And for Dateline, just that little bit would be enough for them to slap a new on it.  The same thing will happen for the babynapping/murder case.

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Maybe the fact that they are both sociopaths is what drew them together in the first place. I think sociopathy is so much more common than we would like to think. 

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5 hours ago, saber5055 said:

 

It seemed like I had seen this story before, the Rodeo Ho Murder Case (ha!), but my tv guide said it was new. It was just very familiar.

 

They said at the top of the show that they had covered the case before but would have new footage. I don’t know what the new footage was because I didn’t feel like wasting two hours again when it was so obvious who did it!

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Devil's Bargain left me frustrated because I wanted them to focus on Patrick more than Krystal. I realize the latter is how they cracked the case but I got nothing in the way of Patrick's motive, background, history, etc. The actual murderer in this case remains an enigma.

Also, I'm confused because at the start of the episode they said Patrick's story/alibi checked out - they had surveillance video of him at a Walmart and at an ATM like said, but then at the end they said his story didn't check out because of different surveillance footage. ???

I don't know why I've become so fascinated with Andrea Canning's jewelry of late, I guess it speaks to the lack of focus I have during her interviews. I'm guessing she is provided with pieces from the wardrobe department, because she always has matching earrings and pendants that go with her outfits. I really liked the dangly, asymmetrical necklace she wore this week.

Oh, and also, Andrea has never heard the expression "twitterpated" before. (Neither has this browser's spell check, apparently.) 🙄

Edited by iMonrey
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22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Devil's Bargain left me frustrated because I wanted them to focus on Patrick more than Krystal. I realize the latter is how they cracked the case but I got nothing in the way of Patrick's motive, background, history, etc. The actual murderer in this case remains an enigma.

I'm sorry that Kelsey was killed, but I feel her case has gotten TONS of exposure.  It seems like there's been 5+ episodes between Dateline and 48 Hours.  All for the psycho boyfriend and his squeeze on the side to have done it.  Kelsey's story, while tragic for her family and her daughter, is not unique, and is frankly not worthy of this much airtime.

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17 hours ago, Ohmo said:

I'm sorry that Kelsey was killed, but I feel her case has gotten TONS of exposure.  It seems like there's been 5+ episodes between Dateline and 48 Hours.  All for the psycho boyfriend and his squeeze on the side to have done it.  Kelsey's story, while tragic for her family and her daughter, is not unique, and is frankly not worthy of this much airtime.

I feel kind of the same way but I think what is somewhat fascinating about this case is the girlfriend’s willingness to participate. I know even that is not unique but she seemed so invested in obeying Patrick. I might be projecting but I’m always so fascinated and puzzled by spouses or friends that are asked to kill on someone else’s behalf and they just go along with it. Why do some people have such power over others? Why do so many just go along? Just my two cents! I’m also ready for a new batch of cases. 

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On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2020 at 4:58 AM, JudyObscure said:

I'm beginning to think the most dangerous thing in the world a woman can do is get pregnant by a man she's not married to. 

Based on a number of recent cases, it is dangerous even if you are married...

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4 hours ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I feel kind of the same way but I think what is somewhat fascinating about this case is the girlfriend’s willingness to participate. I know even that is not unique but she seemed so invested in obeying Patrick. I might be projecting but I’m always so fascinated and puzzled by spouses or friends that are asked to kill on someone else’s behalf and they just go along with it. Why do some people have such power over others? Why do so many just go along? Just my two cents! I’m also ready for a new batch of cases. 

I hadn’t seen anything on this case before, so I was good with watching it.  However, it was decidedly sparse on details about the actual killer and the victim herself.  Absolutely no info on the reasons why he wanted her dead, how he managed to manipulate a charge nurse ( who ought to be good at seeing thru manipulation).  Was this his first crime ever?  What about the victim made people think he was telling the truth about her behavior and why did it take so long for the authorities to refute it?  Didn’t they talk to her co-workers in the first place? 
 

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I wasn't even clear on whether Kelsey had been in rehab or if Patrick just made that up. I was under the impression it was the latter by the end of the episode but there did seem to be hints that Kelsey had some emotional issues if not substance ones. I think the lack of info about her veers toward avoiding victim-blaming. Nobody can deny she made some bad choices in men. 

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Yeah, all sorts of unanswered questions with this Colorado case.  No background on the guy at all.   This sort of sociopath just doesn't spring out of nowhere.   And I say this over and over again (sorry for being a broken record), what is this thing in this country about so many people having baby daddies/baby mamas and "fiancees" but so few actual marriages?    If you don't want to marry the guy and/or he doesn't want to marry YOU, is he REALLY the guy you want as the father for your child?   You'd do better with picking somebody up at a bar or getting a sperm donor.  You'd probably be less likely to get yourself murdered.  

And the Rodeo Ho (hats off to the person who coined that) - how fucking desperate must you be to be driving all over hell at the beck and call of some jerk who barely gives you the time of day.   I mean really - 1500 mile booty calls?  And when SHE got knocked up by this guy, he told her to get rid of it, and she did - and yet she still went after every bone this guy threw at her.  

Finally, if you think your "boyfriend" who is trying to get you to kill his baby mama, isn't eventually going to try and do the same to you, you are truly in the running for a Darwin Award.   The really sad thing is that this souless Rodeo Ho only got 3 years for being the accessory to a murder which she could have prevented had she had an ounce of humanity.   Makes you just sick.  

Edited by 12catcrazy
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8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I wasn't even clear on whether Kelsey had been in rehab or if Patrick just made that up. I was under the impression it was the latter by the end of the episode but there did seem to be hints that Kelsey had some emotional issues if not substance ones. I think the lack of info about her veers toward avoiding victim-blaming. Nobody can deny she made some bad choices in men. 

I believe she wasn't in rehab but a mental health facility at some point. Likely for post partum depression. They danced around it saying exhaustion which is why I interpreted that way.

Yes, I wanted more about Patrick as well. Was he abusive? Why did he have to kill her? Rodeo Ho got off easy. 

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On 11/17/2019 at 7:23 AM, JudyObscure said:

I don't mind that the man got less time than Denise because I just hate people who murder their spouse, rather than divorce, because they don't want to look bad to their fellow church members.  Denise  honestly thought God wouldn't think it was murder if they made it look like an accident. 

You read my mind. I feel so much rage when I learn the crime involves murder rather than divorce. All families and kids involved suffer, and how could anyone feel murder is less sinful than divorce?

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On 1/19/2020 at 1:50 AM, MsJamieDornan said:

Im not saying she is innocent, but I don't think I could have convicted her with evidence they presented.

This is where Dateline should improve. The show must be aware of which evidence helped the case, and instead of leaving viewers wondering how on earth a conviction was attained, we should be hearing the same facts that helped the jury decide.

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On 1/20/2020 at 11:48 AM, TVbitch said:

Sometimes I think my brain just wiped out most of my childhood, like, mmmm, we don't need to keep any of these memories. I'm sure there is a wide spectrum of repressing and remembering across individuals.

I have always believed this as well. It's like our minds know what we 'need' to remember, and what we need to 'forget' in order to stay emotionally 'healthy'.

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On 2/8/2020 at 4:58 AM, JudyObscure said:

I'm beginning to think the most dangerous thing in the world a woman can do is get pregnant by a man she's not married to. 

And yet these 'men' (ahem) who don't want an unwanted child foisted upon them, can't seem to figure out how to use a condom?

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I am also quite curious about what goes into the making of a man who uses his bare hands to murder his spouse/girlfriend and child. I suspect that it relates back to overindulged, worshipped sons. I have my own theory about it.  I was hoping to see something in depth about the Colorado husband/father who murdered his wife, children and unborn son, but none yet. Of course, there are some women offenders like this too.

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1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I am also quite curious about what goes into the making of a man who uses his bare hands to murder his spouse/girlfriend and child. I suspect that it relates back to overindulged, worshipped sons. I have my own theory about it.  I was hoping to see something in depth about the Colorado husband/father who murdered his wife, children and unborn son, but none yet. Of course, there are some women offenders like this too.

My mom and I were just talking about that earlier as well. A genuinely good father and husband doesn't just suddenly wake up one morning and decide to off their entire family. In those cases, it often comes out that there were darker things lurking in the guy well before that in terms of his personality and how he treated his family, things that family and friends never knew about until after the fact. And I'm not just talking about affairs, though those do, of course, often wind up being a factor in these crimes (as was the case with Chris Watts).

So. Tonight's episode. WOW. I remember somebody here posting the link about this case in the "Crimes" thread in this forum, but man, to get the full story like this, it's just...my god.

After finding out about the doomsday cult, my initial theory regarding the kids was that they'd killed JJ, because Lori didn't seem to want to care for him anymore and he wouldn't have fit their ideal "144,000" whatever group of people with his autism and whatnot, but perhaps kept the daughter alive. 'Cause given the way all these women's husbands were being targeted and/or dying (and then of course his own wife's death), it seemed clear to me that Chad was trying to build one of those creepy polygamist compound things, where he's the guy with the multiple wives and all that. And if that was his plan, well, we've all seen and heard about what happens to the teenage girls of women who get roped into those cults, so... 

But since there's been absolutely no trace of the daughter along with JJ since their disappearance, and given that footage from the storage shed with the totes...yeah. I have no problem believing that if JJ's dead, so is she :/. The images of them carrying those heavy totes is deeply, deeply chilling. I don't even want to imagine what might be contained in those things. 

And the poor grandparents. I totally get them wanting to wait at the station, wanting to hold on to that shred of hope that Lori would return the kids, but, I mean, I'm not at all surprised that didn't happen. It is frustrating that the investigators' hands seem so tied here, 'cause no way are these guys going to honor an order demanding the return of the kids. They've made it abundantly clear the law doesn't apply to them. Hopefully the investigators will find another way to lure them in at long last. 

Regarding Chad, it never ceases to amaze me how people who look like him somehow manage to have this amazing manipulative power to get women to do their bidding. He looked so doofy and reminded me a lot of Rush Limbaugh looks-wise. Also, all those defenders of him and Lori are complete and total morons. It's one thing to perhaps try and defend somebody (though you'll have quite the uphill battle trying to defend and explain all of this away), but this whole "Satan's minions can twist things"/"they want to separate us Christians one by one" nonsense? Just...shut up already. This is the kind of religious craziness that seriously skeeves me the hell (no pun intended) out something fierce. The fact that Chad's spent time in the remote areas of Idaho, where I've heard that certain other questionable groups tend to congregate, just makes it all the creepier. 

Lori's friend had a very understated reaction to all the weird and creepy stuff going on, I have to say. Yeah, it's probably pretty easy to develop a laid-back attitude living in a state like Hawai'i, but still...

(Gorgeous area of that state, by the way. Somehow that makes this story all the more horrifying, knowing something this tragic and awful is connected to such a bright, sunny, beautiful place.)

Awful, creepy story all around. Whatever's happened to those poor children, I hope the families can get the answers they deserve as soon as humanly possible. And I hope Lori, her brother, and Chad are finally held accountable for their actions. 

Edited by Annber03
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Tonight’s Dateline was all kinds of disturbing.  

Question:  so who is watching Chad and Tammy’s 5 kids?  

Edited by MerBearHou
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I agree. Tonight's case is just mind-boggling. There are so many red flags you can barely see anything... how on earth are they still walking around free? Isn't there some kind of law that would compel Lori to reveal the children's whereabouts or face arrest? I cannot understand it. 

Also, does it really take this long to get the results from Chad's wife's posthumous autopsy and Alex's autopsy? Or are the police holding everything for when they swoop in and charge them later? 

I think the most bone chilling part of it is the two of them wandering around a luxury resort, calm and relaxed, like they don't have a care in the world. Of course this is the woman who threw a party the day of her estranged husband's murder, and the couple who married 2 weeks after the man's wife's "unexpected" death. You can't make this stuff up. 

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How did Lori get by all these years and no one noticed how crazy she is, something is missing from the story. I'm also from this island they escaped to so it's crazy to think these psychos could just be amongst us.

Edited by Leilani
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23 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Of course this is the woman who threw a party the day of her estranged husband's murder

That blew my mind. I mean, we've all heard those stories about people acting weird and suspicious immediately following a spouse's death, but a freaking pool party? That same day? 

I'm also amazed anyone even allowed them to do that in the first place. Wouldn't that whole area have been cordoned off as a crime scene, and wouldn't police have been swarming and monitoring the neighborhood in general that whole day? 

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Well I found this account of Charles exwife, so there were signs all along that she wasn't stable .

A year after Charles and Lori got married, Cheryl became concerned about Lori’s mental state.

“She just seemed off. There were a lot of strange goings-on at their home to the point that a judge ordered cameras to be put in their home to protect the children,” Cheryl recalls.

Nothing suspicious or criminal was ever found on the video footage, Cheryl said, but she said something wasn’t right with Lori. During child custody hearings, Cheryl says Lori seemed to enjoy being in court and “all the drama” surrounding it.

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Wow. Yeah, I love how people's description of Lori being a good mom included talk about her feeding her kids and getting them out of the house to school each day. 

So...in other words, the basics, then. I mean, yeah, obviously, that's good, but it doesn't exactly make her any different or more special than any other mother. 

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Didn't they say she'd been married 4 times? Did that include Chad, or was that before him? Either way, to be married 4 times when you're still quite young is a lot even by Hollywood standards, let alone for a woman who was passing herself off as very religious and family-oriented. 

Oh, and the text to her stepsons saying, basically, "Hi! Your dad's dead. Sorry. Heart emoji" sort of says it all. 

For me the worst part was the little boy's photo album in the storage unit  next to the children's bikes, because I'm trying not to think about them too much, it's too awful. 

ETA I just checked online and she's been married 5 times. She has an older son too. 

Edited by Melina22
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Why were the reporters touching the evidence in the storage shed?  Why hadn’t the police seized it?

Edited by GussieK
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8 hours ago, Melina22 said:

 There are so many red flags you can barely see anything... how on earth are they still walking around free? Isn't there some kind of law that would compel Lori to reveal the children's whereabouts or face arrest? I cannot understand it. 

I also don't understand the law regarding this situation.   Apparently the only way to prove the children were harmed is to find their bodies.  There does not seem to be any law that requires the mother to actually address the disappearance.  Can she not be forced to talk to the police and answer questions about the matter?  Did anything happen to her for not bringing the children to Idaho within the time frame she was given?  It does not seem like there were any consequences for her not showing up.  Why not?  

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I was very tired while I was watching this, so I kept dozing out even though I was really interested in the case.  My annoying questions (feel free to ignore):

How were the grandparents related to the children?  I thought the woman of the older couple was referred to as Charles's sister several times, so this wasn't making sense to me.  Wouldn't that make her an aunt rather than a grandmother?

Did anyone say what happened to the five children that Chad had with the wife they apparently killed?  Presumably they're with some other relative, but he seems as happy to be rid of his kids as she is to be rid of hers.

I missed how Alex, the brother, died.  Also under suspicious circumstances?

Where do these people get the money to support their nice houses and their lengthy Hawaii hotel stays?  Hawaii is pretty expensive, and I don't think there was a mention of what Chad's "business" was--not sure how he keeps a business running anyway, with this situation ongoing.

I agree that it's nuts that they just get to ignore questions about the whereabouts of the kids with no apparent legal consequences.

My sleep-fogged theory is that neither of her kids were perfect enough to bolster her self-image as goddess of the Second Coming, so she disposed of them.  The whole story is nuts, even with my limited grasp of it.

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1 hour ago, freeser said:

There does not seem to be any law that requires the mother to actually address the disappearance.  Can she not be forced to talk to the police and answer questions about the matter?

That bothered me the most. For that alone she should be in jail.

23 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

Where do these people get the money to support their nice houses and their lengthy Hawaii hotel stays?  Hawaii is pretty expensive,

All the moves she made? How in the world did she pay for it all?

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28 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

How were the grandparents related to the children? 

The grandparents were Charles's sister and her husband. I also missed the details but believe JJ was one of their children's children who they didn't feel up to raising until Lori offered. 

31 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

I missed how Alex, the brother, died.  Also under suspicious circumstances?

He married a woman from their strange group who claimed to have special powers. The police got a 911 call from her son, claiming Alex had been found unconscious. He then died. 

 

33 minutes ago, Mondrianyone said:

Where do these people get the money to support their nice houses and their lengthy Hawaii hotel stays? 

Among other things, Chad wrote multiple novels and books that sold fairly well. Of course, with these 2 there are lots of other possibilities, like donations from his adoring followers? 

I have no idea what happened to Chad's children. 

I'm surprised Lori's ex-friend wasn't afraid to give those interviews. I would be. 

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58 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

I'm surprised Lori's ex-friend wasn't afraid to give those interviews. I would be. 

This!  Clearly they are willing to kill family...allegedly.  
 

I’m hoping that law enforcement is close to doing something and just waiting for the go.  I mean, come on.  People get pulled over and arrested for less.  

And agreed, I don’t think they should’ve been in that storage unit poking around.  How many times have we seen the police get a new lead and have to go back through evidence again on these shows, but I guess they would’ve secured it.  I’m surprised they didn’t take everything.

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I’m in a few Facebook groups that have been following the local news on this case for awhile, so I can fill in the blanks.

Chad and Tammy’s five kids are all adults. At least three are married with kids of their own. Their youngest is on his LDS mission. One of their kids was living in Chad and Tammy’s house when police served the search warrant. The kids are not cooperating with law enforcement. The rumor is that they follow their father’s beliefs, particularly his daughter Emma, who is a teacher at the local school. His daughter Emma also has appeared on podcasts with some of the same people as Chad and Lori and is the main character of his end-of-the-world series of books. There is a video out there of Emma pulling up in a car behind a reporter, and she starts making faces and flipping off the camera. She seems to have a similar attitude as Lori.

Dateline also didn’t mention that there is another quickie marriage in the mix. Lori’s niece Melani also married a man in Chad’s group, and then in November Melani was arrested for trespassing at her ex-in-laws’ house. They believe she and Alex were trying to take back her kids. Her mug shot is creepy. 

They also don’t mention that one of the videos of Alex going in the storage unit in Idaho with Lori is dated October 2nd - the same day he is supposed trying to kill Melani’s ex-husband in Arizona. It isn’t possible for him to travel between Arizona and Idaho that quickly, so there is another man in this story who looks like Alex but hasn’t been identified. 

 

Edited by Peppermint Patty
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The grandparents were Charles's sister and her husband. I also missed the details but believe JJ was one of their children's children who they didn't feel up to raising until Lori offered.

Remind me, who is Charles? I was confused about this part too. If JJ was actually their grandchild who the hell were his parents and where were they in all of this?

Is it fair to say this story speaks to the dangers of religious fanaticism? I'm certain Lori and Chad killed the two kids believing they were sparing them from the impending apocalypse and that they would meet up with them soon. 

I wonder if the police are just waiting out the clock until this apocalypse doesn't happen - they seem to think it's coming in five months or something. Maybe the police figure Lori and Chad will just come clean once that day comes and goes without incident.

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22 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Remind me, who is Charles? I was confused about this part too. If JJ was actually their grandchild who the hell were his parents and where were they in all of this?

Is it fair to say this story speaks to the dangers of religious fanaticism? I'm certain Lori and Chad killed the two kids believing they were sparing them from the impending apocalypse

Or she killed JJ because in her own words “she didn’t want him.” Tylee simply knew too much about Charles’ murder.

To answer your first question, Kay and Larry’s son and his girlfriend got pregnant and had JJ. The girlfriend was a drug user, and JJ was born drug-addicted. CPS stepped in and took JJ, and gave custody of JJ to Kay and Larry. Kay and Larry raised JJ for the first 18 months or so, but due to age, health issues, and the business, they asked Kay’s brother Charles (and his wife Lori) to adopt JJ. So Kay and Larry are JJ’s bio grandparents, but also his aunt and uncle via adoption. They have no relation to Tylee but have said they would welcome her if she was interested (if they are found.) 

Annie Cushing - Tylee’s bio aunt, sister of Lori’s husband #3 - has a very detailed timeline at annielytics.com that explains everyone involved, with sources. Her brother’s death, imo, is also suspicious. One way that Lori may be financing her current adventures is with the life insurance policy that he left her and Tylee when he died in April 2018.

ETA: There are some sources out there that say Chad took out a huge life insurance policy on Tammy a few months before her death. 

Edited by Peppermint Patty · Reason: Edited to add more info
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