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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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Wow, all sorts of wrong with this case.  First with the scumbag police detective who couldn't be bothered doing any investigating.  Cassy's parents need to find a hot-shot lawyer and sue the police dept if you ask me, but they'd probably have a snowball's chance of hell in winning.   And then the parent's of the murderer get custody of the children AND are allowed to keep them from their other grandparents???   And I'm sure they are busy poisoning the kids against their murdered mother and her family.   As someone up-thread stated, there is SOMETHING wrong in that family.   I'm not a parent, but I don't understand how people seem fine with their adult children doing awful things like murdering a spouse and make all sorts of excuses for them doing it.  (And just look at the case in Colorado  - from what I read, Chris Watt's parents don't seem to think he murdered the kids, just the wife, because he said so and they are choosing to believe him).   

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This is not the first time we have seen a bad custody battle result in murder on Dateline. There was one a few weeks ago. But it is a recurring theme. 

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I just watched the Atlanta case of Tex Mcgyver “accidentally” shooting his wife from the back seat. I still don’t understand the conviction technicalities, but I caught myself wondering from the beginning if he was suffering some type of dementia. His post wife death actions were so weird, and his statement at sentencing was so strange. It seems like that would’ve been brought up at trial, but he struck me as the type who’d rather go to prison than admit dementia. I wonder if the wife’s best friend’s statement about what he said at the ER was shown at trial. 

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I saw the Mcgyver case, heard about it when it was happening since I am not that far away. I agree that he probably didn’t want to admit dementia. Reminded me of a L&O epiode where the patriarch of the family (Robert Vaughn) didn’t want anyone to know his grandson had inherited his anger and mental issues, which caused the grandson to kill his little sister. Or that the boy belonged in a mental hospital. Mcgyver was probably the same way, didn’t want anyone to know he wasn’t a businessman in control.

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20 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

I saw the Mcgyver case, heard about it when it was happening since I am not that far away. I agree that he probably didn’t want to admit dementia. Reminded me of a L&O epiode where the patriarch of the family (Robert Vaughn) didn’t want anyone to know his grandson had inherited his anger and mental issues, which caused the grandson to kill his little sister. Or that the boy belonged in a mental hospital. Mcgyver was probably the same way, didn’t want anyone to know he wasn’t a businessman in control.

Did his behavior seem off to you? Oops, been spelling the name wrong. McIver. Hmm, all kinds of additional info online including his wife not wanting to see him in the ER. 

Edited by bubbls

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1 hour ago, walnutqueen said:

The prosecutor, Matt Murphy (I'm sure I've seen him on other cases) sure is easy on the eyes

Yes, indeedy, and we got to see him surfing this time. 

 Ed Shin said something early on that seemed so fake, I instantly thought he had killed Chris.  Keith asked him if he had been angry when his partner just up and left, and Ed said a mild, "I could have used him."  Also, the Playboy model thing sounded like something Ed might make up.  What normal man leaves a  serious girlfriend who he's thinking of marrying for a sort of sex worker?  Only someone like Ed the  Vegas gambler would think that was a trade up.

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Wholly unrelated to the case, I found the giant statue of a mastadon or mammoth to be an odd choice for the office park where the PI firm/murder scene was.  

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1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Yes, indeedy, and we got to see him surfing this time. 

I had Saturday night ID show sound effects playing in my head during that scene, imagining it in slo-mo.  Not gonna lie - I lurve me some surfers (from afar, of course!).   :-)

I hate to admit this, but the fact that Shin was "devout" and attended bible study just sealed the deal for me - it's almost always the outwardly holier-than-thou who wind up being the perps.  At least, in the true crime world I inhabit, it seems to be a theme ...

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I know I'm just a pathetic moo cow and therefore would have been pitied by Chris but it was still a sad story. And I'm sure his family has to be kicking themselves looking back on what should have been an obvious ruse. Then again, if you live a semi-nomadic life, your loved ones probably wouldn't think much of you up and leaving like that.

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16 minutes ago, ridethemaverick said:

I know I'm just a pathetic moo cow and therefore would have been pitied by Chris but it was still a sad story. And I'm sure his family has to be kicking themselves looking back on what should have been an obvious ruse. Then again, if you live a semi-nomadic life, your loved ones probably wouldn't think much of you up and leaving like that.

I happen to know you're neither pathetic nor a moo cow!  :-)

I forget to mention my compassion for the victim and his family in my rush to cynicism, but, believe it or not, I felt sadness and outrage that such a venal POS was able to take down a "good guy" - in what must have been a cowardly ambush, because surfers are fit, and Li'l Kim didn't appear to possess a single ninja move.

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4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

The prosecutor, Matt Murphy (I'm sure I've seen him on other cases) sure is easy on the eyes.  [/shallow]

That guy did NOT have time for Ed's BS! The way he took apart each and every one of his lies and stories when he was on the stand was amazing. I could just imagine Ed's defense attorney sitting there quietly wincing and thinking, "Yeah, I think you're screwed, bud." 

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14 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

That guy did NOT have time for Ed's BS! The way he took apart each and every one of his lies and stories when he was on the stand was amazing. I could just imagine Ed's defense attorney sitting there quietly wincing and thinking, "Yeah, I think you're screwed, bud." 

The only thing sexier than his looks & surfing is his ability to eviscerate a perp on the witness stand.  SWOOSH!

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When I saw Ed I thought he did it. What threw me off a bit was when the dad got suspicious and asked in the emails some questions that only his son would know the answers to.

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I swear these two-hour episodes are just 10 extra minutes of show and 50 extra minutes of commercials.

There didn't appear to be any real mystery to Chris Smith's death, there seemed to be only one viable suspect from the start, so I thought this could easily have been one hour. A lot of time spent on the family telling us how much Chris enjoyed this or that.

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We immediately looked at each other and said the business partner killed him about 10 minutes into the show.  His family so badly wanted to believe he was alive that they ignored the red flags.  The brother really should have put it together when he met the playboy model.  It was Ed that told him it was a different girl.  Ed just kept lying.  Also the dad and son obviously were not communicating about the emails.  The dad asks what kind of boat.  Ed then asks the brother about the boat.  I could see Ed knowing what lake that Chris grew up on.  They probably talked about their childhoods.  But a detail like a boat would not have been talked about.  

I hated Ed so much I just wanted that guilty verdict.  I had never heard of this case before.  Keith doing a new case was a good show for me.   

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1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I swear these two-hour episodes are just 10 extra minutes of show and 50 extra minutes of commercials.

There didn't appear to be any real mystery to Chris Smith's death, there seemed to be only one viable suspect from the start, so I thought this could easily have been one hour. A lot of time spent on the family telling us how much Chris enjoyed this or that.

BUT - it was Keith Morrison telling us this stuff!!!  And he could lullaby me to sleep every damned night and twice on Sundays!

Two hours of Keith gives me the will to live another effing week!  :-)

Edited by walnutqueen
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48 minutes ago, walnutqueen said:

BUT - it was Keith Morrison telling us this stuff!!!  And he could lullaby me to sleep every damned night and twice on Sundays!

Two hours of Keith give me the will to live another effing week!  :-)

I agree! Keith is an excellent storyteller. His use of descriptive adjectives just pulls me in. I prefer him over Josh Manka-whatever and appreciate seeing new stories for a change. It makes me sad that they are at the expense of some families heartbreak though.

Edited by Pebble Puppy
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11 minutes ago, Pebble Puppy said:

I agree! Keith is an excellent storyteller. His use of descriptive adejectives just pulls me in. I prefer him over Josh Manka-whatever and appreciate seeing new stories for a change. It makes me sad that they are at the expense of some families heartbreak though.

I live for Josh Mankievicz's raised eyebrow of scornful disbelief. On par with Keith Morrison's bony finger to the chin side glance.

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Ed asking the brother about the model of the boat was so dumb. And odd that the son didn't mention it to the dad that Ed asked such a random, odd question. Also, that "devout" thing about Ed was a tip off for me

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7 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

The prosecutor, Matt Murphy (I'm sure I've seen him on other cases) sure is easy on the eyes. 

They feature him a lot, and yeah, he presents well. He looks like a young Ed Harris with a side of Billy Bob Thorton kick ass. I think Matthew McConuaghey should play him in the movie. :)

Last night's episode was a no-brainer. Doesn't anyone do a background check, or even a google, their business partner? Also, the dad being an ex-cop should have been more suspicious, and he could have come up with a better ruse. I would not have emailed Chris "Answer these two random questions!" I would have casually said, "Glad you are having an adventure son, remember when we went to blah blah together?" or something so that Ed would say "Yeah, of course I do Dad." Only it never happened. I guess they had their reasons to think he really might be on some never-ending journey, but I'm not even close to one of my brothers and if he up and left and did not speak to anyone for months, I would be all over it. Throw in that Chris had lots of money and was acting oddly -come on!  

Edited by TVbitch
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45 minutes ago, TVbitch said:

They feature him a lot, and yeah, he presents well. He looks like a young Ed Harris with a side of Billy Bob Thorton kick ass. I think Matthew McConuaghey should play him in the movie. :)

Last night's episode was a no-brainer. Doesn't anyone do a background check, or even a google, their business partner? Also, the dad being an ex-cop should have been more suspicious, and he could have come up with a better ruse. I would not have emailed Chris "Answer these two random questions!" I would have casually said, "Glad you are having an adventure son, remember when we went to blah blah together?" or something so that Ed would say "Yeah, of course I do Dad." Only it never happened. I guess they had their reasons to think he really might be on some never-ending journey, but I'm not even close to one of my brothers and if he up and left and did not speak to anyone for months, I would be all over it. Throw in that Chris had lots of money and was acting oddly -come on!  

I think he should play himself in the TV movie; he so pretty!

If I were the family, I'd be all over that shit, but I am suspicious by nature and mistrusting by true crime nurture, so the deck is stacked against anyone's story ...  ;-)

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The Chris Smith case: another seven years between the murderers’ arrest and the trial.  I understand the process - but it’s got to be so physically, mentally and emotionally damaging to the victims family.  You have to wonder just how much those people’s life spans are shortened as a result. Not provable, I know. What lives they do have are forever altered. Often there are deaths divorces, lost jobs, financial ruin. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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2 hours ago, TVbitch said:

They feature him a lot, and yeah, he presents well. He looks like a young Ed Harris with a side of Billy Bob Thorton kick ass. I think Matthew McConuaghey should play him in the movie. :)

Last night's episode was a no-brainer. Doesn't anyone do a background check, or even a google, their business partner? Also, the dad being an ex-cop should have been more suspicious, and he could have come up with a better ruse. I would not have emailed Chris "Answer these two random questions!" I would have casually said, "Glad you are having an adventure son, remember when we went to blah blah together?" or something so that Ed would say "Yeah, of course I do Dad." Only it never happened. I guess they had their reasons to think he really might be on some never-ending journey, but I'm not even close to one of my brothers and if he up and left and did not speak to anyone for months, I would be all over it. Throw in that Chris had lots of money and was acting oddly -come on!  

I think the family, on some level, just wanted to believe he was not dead.  I agree that I would be very suspicious.   Plus, you could have easily found where the emails had originated from the IP address.   Why wasn’t that done?  I just think Chris’ family was in such denial that they just didn’t want to know.  

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2 minutes ago, mythoughtis said:

The Chris Smith case: another seven years between the murderers’ arrest and the trial.  I understand the process - but it’s got to be so physically, mentally and emotionally damaging to the victims family.  You have to wonder just how much those people’s life spans are shortened as a result. Not provable, I know. What lives they do have are forever altered. Deaths, divorced, lost jobs. 

Yes.  And how many times have we seen the lives of the victims' survivors be decimated; not to mention all the times the parent died before finding justice for their murdered child?  It is heartbreaking.

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I haven't watched Dateline for a while, all the murder and death and horrible people on the news every day has worn me out. But I got drawn into this one. I'm with everyone else that the whole Chris-going-to-tour-the-world was such a red flag. Okay, maybe for a couple months, but after that? Didn't anyone think to check the email headers/routers? If Chris was where there were no phones or anything else, how did he get such easy wifi in the middle of the ocean, Patagonia and the middle of Africa.

I also thought the dad asked the wrong questions. He could have said something like, "I'm thinking of getting another boat like the one we had at BLUE LAKE (wrong). What kind was that, I can't remember."

Finding out Ed had a gambling addition summed up the case for me that he was the killer. I was in a relationship with a person who turned out to be a pathological liar and gambling addict. He only was removed from my life when he was arrested and put into prison. Looking back, I can now see the steps he was taking to move me toward suicide. I'm lucky (I guess) to be here.

I hate how long these cases take between the death/disappearance and the conviction. Think of how many murders/disappearances never get solved, or even taken seriously by the police/detectives. The number must be staggering.

I wonder if Ed was given the opportunity to show where Chris was buried.

The surfer celebration of life at the end brought tears to my eyes.

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2 minutes ago, saber5055 said:

Finding out Ed had a gambling addition summed up the case for me that he was the killer. I was in a relationship with a person who turned out to be a pathological liar and gambling addict. He only was removed from my life when he was arrested and put into prison. Looking back, I can now see the steps he was taking to move me toward suicide. I'm lucky (I guess) to be here.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I'm glad you were able to get away from him, and hope you're doing better now. 

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1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I wonder if Ed was given the opportunity to show where Chris was buried

He was asked repeatedly and refused to give up the goods.  So much for his cell phone's "GPS" which tracked him to "the desert" near Ocatillo.  Cadaver dogs couldn't locate the remains; some day an ATV will unearth a skull ...

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One thing that I thought was interesting because the shows try and make every victim featured an amazing special snowflake that no one could compare too was that the stories about him were he once got into a water balloon fight with his niece and also once treated his brother to an expensive vacation. Not suggesting that he deserved to die but I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life. The assistant had more positive stories about the murder than the victim.

Edited by biakbiak
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2 hours ago, LGGirl said:

Plus, you could have easily found where the emails had originated from the IP address.   Why wasn’t that done?

I would hope Ed, being computer savvy enough to divert funds from his last job, would be computer savvy enough to use a VPN to funnel the emails through the locations he was supposedly emailing from. But a good PI might still figure that out. 

 

20 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life. The assistant had more positive stories about the murder than the victim.

His girlfriend said he was volatile, paranoid, etc. And he was supposedly into conspiracy theories. And he was clearly restless and a bit chaotic, working late hours non-stop and stuff. I'm wondering if maybe he was bipolar or something and the family just didn't want to get into that.  

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Just checking my DVR and is see Dateline on the schedule with a NEW episode called "In a Lonely Place".   Huh?  That's the same episode as yesterday about the missing surfer.  The only difference is that this one is only 1 hour.  Who is the programmer for this show - very confusing.

EDIT:  My cable service has "In a Lonely Place" listed as showing at 8PM tonight, and "A Crack in Everything" at 9PM but "Crack" started at 8PM.   Someone was asleep at the wheel.

Edited by patty1h
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59 minutes ago, patty1h said:

Just checking my DVR and is see Dateline on the schedule with a NEW episode called "In a Lonely Place".   Huh?  That's the same episode as yesterday about the missing surfer.  The only difference is that this one is only 1 hour.  Who is the programmer for this show - very confusing.

Very weird.  My DVR & guide only shows a rerun of "A Crack in Everything" tonight.  

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What the hell???

They showed “A Crack in Everything”.... and the husband was released from prison/jail since there were questions about his guilt. They were going to try to find out who really killed his wife, or did she really commit suicide. They were talking to him.... then a new episode switchover begins and here’s Dalia Dipoleto!!!

I want the correct episode on, please!!!!

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10 hours ago, biakbiak said:

Not suggesting that he deserved to die but I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life.

He was, but not in a way where he was mean or rude to others, just extremely shallow and not academically high achieving.  I went to high school with him.  It was a fundamentalist Christian school Which kind of explains such an unlikely business pairing with Ed Shin, like most of us survivors of that school he could probably talk a good game to Shin to gain trust and/or make himself a good mark for embezzlement.  I heard about this when it happened and the loss did really affect his friends, it’s sad.  

Edited by LatchkeyPorVida
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20 hours ago, TVbitch said:

They feature him a lot, and yeah, he presents well. He looks like a young Ed Harris with a side of Billy Bob Thorton kick ass. I think Matthew McConuaghey should play him in the movie. :)

Last night's episode was a no-brainer. Doesn't anyone do a background check, or even a google, their business partner? Also, the dad being an ex-cop should have been more suspicious, and he could have come up with a better ruse. I would not have emailed Chris "Answer these two random questions!" I would have casually said, "Glad you are having an adventure son, remember when we went to blah blah together?" or something so that Ed would say "Yeah, of course I do Dad." Only it never happened. I guess they had their reasons to think he really might be on some never-ending journey, but I'm not even close to one of my brothers and if he up and left and did not speak to anyone for months, I would be all over it. Throw in that Chris had lots of money and was acting oddly -come on!  

I agree. The random questions were too pointed. Good idea about "what about when we went to blah blah" and they never went there. more subtle. 

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The surfer celebration of life at the end brought tears to my eyes.

There's a show on TNT called Animal Kingdom and they had the very same kind of celebration on that show for a surfer character that died. So I guess that's actually a thing.

Quote

Not suggesting that he deserved to die but I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life.

He was, but not in a way where he was mean or rude to others, just extremely shallow and not academically high achieving.  I went to high school with him.  It was a fundamentalist Christian school Which kind of explains such an unlikely business pairing with Ed Shin, like most of us survivors of that school he could probably talk a good game to Shin to gain trust and/or make himself a good mark for embezzlement.  I heard about this when it happened and the loss did really affect his friends, it’s sad.  

They steer away from victim-blaming as hard as they can on this show, often to the point of whitewashing. But yeah, while nobody "deserves" to get murdered, Chris deliberately chose to go into business with someone shady as hell. And whether he was simply ignorant of Ed's past or willing to overlook it, both were bad choices. The show made an issue of how "devout" Chris was and how "devout" Ed supposedly was, and yet they both went to Vegas and indulged in all kinds of "sins," for lack of a better word. 

The only real mystery here is how Chris actually died. We don't know if there was some kind of confrontation or if Ed plotted this whole thing and took him by surprise. It might have been accidental after all, for all we know.

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On 12/15/2018 at 5:44 PM, biakbiak said:

One thing that I thought was interesting because the shows try and make every victim featured an amazing special snowflake that no one could compare too was that the stories about him were he once got into a water balloon fight with his niece and also once treated his brother to an expensive vacation. Not suggesting that he deserved to die but I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life. The assistant had more positive stories about the murder than the victim.

I found the victim to be rather unlikable. We would all like to follow our dreams but we all have to eat. Way too much time spent on remembering stories of him.

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On 15/12/2018 at 11:54 AM, walnutqueen said:

I think he should play himself in the TV movie; he so pretty!

If I were the family, I'd be all over that shit, but I am suspicious by nature and mistrusting by true crime nurture, so the deck is stacked against anyone's story ...  ;-)

I was flabbergasted at how trusting the family was. The first thing I would wonder is why Chris is sending all of these emails from these places he is supposedly travelling to around the world, but he doesn't send one picture of himself at any of these locations? Even if some locations were supposedly too remote to post from, it isn't like he couldn't take pictures to post when he was able to again. SMH. 

I also didn't understand why the lawyer wasn't suspicious of the half page agreement that Ed sent regarding the sale of Chris's shares to him. My husband just sold his shares of his company to his partners. The lawyers are the ones who drew up the agreement, and my hubby had to have his own lawyer and his partners had their own. The agreement was pages long and very detailed, and had to be signed by each partner in front of the lawyers and witnesses. It took weeks to complete. How in the world is a half page half assed "agreement" even legal? 

When Ed was testifying about the fight he and Chris got into, with blood everywhere, I was yelling at the TV "Why is there none of your blood if you were both fighting?", so loved it when they showed Matt asking that question. I also loved it when he was making fun of Ed saying how bad he felt at various points regarding Chris's death.  And I agree, Matt is very pretty! 

Edited by UsernameFatigue
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 My cable service has "In a Lonely Place" listed as showing at 8PM tonight, and "A Crack in Everything" at 9PM but "Crack" started at 8PM.   Someone was asleep at the wheel.

I don't know why my DVR recorded "A Crack in Everything" as new because I definitely saw this one before. I thought the eldest daughter and the victim's sister were shady as hell and I wish they had participated because I want to know why she went to the police and insisted her sister had been murdered after it had initially been ruled a suicide. There's a piece of info we're not being told here and it must have something to do with her saying something to her sister at one time about her husband being violent or maybe having threatened her at some point. But this show wants us to believe he was just a blameless victim wrongly accused and jailed.

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Matt The Prosecuter is a cutie. I also have a married lady crush on Trey Gowdy (actually it takes me a bit to figure out which one is being interviewed as I get them confused depending on the decade). Anyway, I was thinking Chris’ dad must not have been a very good cop if those were his questions, and he accepted that answer. But I understand they were in deep denial. Or there was unspoken history of Chris taking off or acting out in the past, so they assumed this was that. Because as a ruse it was a pretty bad one. 

 

All that money too! I wonder if the murderer ever thinks about how he could be retiring in Tahiti but is instead sitting in prison. 

Edited by bubbls
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5 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't know why my DVR recorded "A Crack in Everything" as new because I definitely saw this one before. I thought the eldest daughter and the victim's sister were shady as hell and I wish they had participated because I want to know why she went to the police and insisted her sister had been murdered after it had initially been ruled a suicide. There's a piece of info we're not being told here and it must have something to do with her saying something to her sister at one time about her husband being violent or maybe having threatened her at some point. But this show wants us to believe he was just a blameless victim wrongly accused and jailed.

That’s why I got pissed off when the episode abruptly ended with no resolution, or any type of post-investigation. And we get stuck with Dalia Dipoleto.

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I have my DVD set to record new episodes. They have these labeled as new. The date was December 16, 2018 even though there was nothing new about it, no new updates or anything. This has happened a few times. I'm not sure why they are doing this.

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I thought Chris Smith's family was beyond naive and I did wonder if it had to do with their faith. Sometimes people who are devoutly religious, especially those who are raised in insular communities, can be a bit more trusting than most people. Like another poster upthread, I also wondered if Chris had Bipolar I disorder. It's possible, especially if his family is fundamentalist christian, that they don't believe in mental illness, and by that I mean they believe mental illness is demonic possession. It would make sense then that they either wouldn't want to talk about it or be in denial about his condition. 

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Wow, apparently on the day he vanished Chris Smith emailed his lawyer about protecting himself from Ed Shin’s fraud and said he (Ed) was itching to do it again. And I guess the lawyer wasn’t suspicious of Ed either. What a weird case.

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On 12/17/2018 at 1:50 PM, iMonrey said:

I don't know why my DVR recorded "A Crack in Everything" as new because I definitely saw this one before. I thought the eldest daughter and the victim's sister were shady as hell and I wish they had participated because I want to know why she went to the police and insisted her sister had been murdered after it had initially been ruled a suicide.

Denial isn't unusual when it comes to death and this is even more true when it comes to suicide.  As in, no way would the person choose to leave us.  Or they see the person as happy (which they often are once they decide to go through with it) and can't believe that would be a precursor to suicide.  So I think it's probably a combination of denial, not liking the husband and maybe even knowing about the affair which would be a reason why she wouldn't/why he would kill her.

I've been on quite a Dateline kick lately and for some of these stories, I'm kind of stunned how easy it is for people to get convicted.   And I don't mean because of a lack of DNA...etc.  A strong circumstantial case is still a strong case.  But some of these don't even have that. 

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On 12/15/2018 at 6:44 PM, biakbiak said:

One thing that I thought was interesting because the shows try and make every victim featured an amazing special snowflake that no one could compare too was that the stories about him were he once got into a water balloon fight with his niece and also once treated his brother to an expensive vacation. Not suggesting that he deserved to die but I got the impression that he was a douchetastic asshole in life. The assistant had more positive stories about the murder than the victim.

I follow dateline on fb and it seems everyone commenting on this episode seems to think that he was not only the hottest man who ever lived (yes someone actually said that) but that he seemed like a perfect human being. No one said he was a pillar of the community or that he lit up a room, but they may have just as well!

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