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All Episodes Talk: Crime And Punishment

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I usually try not to blame the parents of young criminals but, dayum! Isaiah's father seems to think it's just fine for his son to be borrowing large sums of money from his girlfriends, girlfriends who are earning the same amount of money Isaiah  is, and his mother has taught him that, "It was an accident,"  is a literal get out of jail free card, assuming anyone would be dumb enough to think you could accidentally shoot someone in the center of the back of the head. I called "bad parenting," during the early part of his police interrogation because he was way, way too quick to say, "I apologize," when he was caught lying about where he dropped off Haylee.  Clearly someone had taught him that those magic words got him out of trouble every time.  I'll bet he told Haylee, "I apologize," when she confronted him over the forged check for 300 dollars.  I despise the whole family.

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12 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

Andrea Canning’s wardrobe doesn’t bother me nearly as much as her up-talking at the end of every freaking sentence.

Yes! This ruins it for me really. I try to ignore it but she does it constantly. Someone make it stop!

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On 9/29/2018 at 11:04 PM, mythoughtis said:

Hailey seemed to be described as a straight arrow, sensitive, extremely nice individual. What was she doing with all these people? 

1. Isaiah,  a guy who stole money from her and  forged checks on her account. 

2. Her childhood friend who had a baby by a guy who was known to be bad news.  A guy who she felt lied about how the baby died, and she thought was guilty of killing that baby, yet she’s over at their house the night she died. 

Then there is Isaiahs’ friend, who was with him even though he knew Isaiah had stolen a mutual friends TV. 

However, that doesn’t mean she deserved what happened to her. That’s all on Isaiah.  It’s not his  fathers fault even though he asked for his money back.  It wasn’t even clear that he knew about Isaiah’s theft and forgery. 

Mom should not have sprung that on the lawyer- although it’s possible the lawyer wanted to be kept in the dark about any possibility of Isaiah’s guilt.  

Hailey's beautiful nature is what unfortunately was her undoing.  She was a fixer and unfortunately there are some people who cannot or don't want to be fixed.  I feel so awful for her family and friends.

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On 9/29/2018 at 8:17 PM, sinycalone said:

I don't think the detectives were allowed to listen in to the convo between the mother and the suspect....or, at the very least, they felt that as his mother she was entitled to privacy when talking to Isaiah.

I couldn't figure out  Isaiah's father's logic either.  Your son borrows money from you -- so you are OK with his pressuring a friend (who was working and attending college, as others have pointed out) to shell out more money, when he's already forged a check on her account.  The father should have been on his son's case about why he was in such debt in the first place.

The debt was the biggest mystery to me that the show didn't address.  Was he on drugs? Did he suddenly lose a job and couldn't get another one? Why was he all of a sudden stealing from his friends.  To me drugs is the most likely reason that he would steal and murder for a couple hundred dollars.  I felt the parents were definitely delusional. 

Edited by galleta
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11 minutes ago, galleta said:

The debt was the biggest mystery to me that the show didn't address.  Was he on drugs? Did he suddenly lose a job and couldn't get another one? Why was he all of a sudden stealing from his friends.  To me drugs is the most likely reason that he would steal and murder for a couple hundred dollars.  I felt the parents were definitely delusional. 

Sounds about right to me.  I also wondered why the prosecution didn't seem to focus on that desperate need for cash....unless they did, but the fact was omitted from Dateline's presentation.

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Yeah there was something missing from this one, I didn't feel like we got the whole story. I suppose that's because they're in the process of an appeal but there was just something off.

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"It was an accident,"  is a literal get out of jail free card, assuming anyone would be dumb enough to think you could accidentally shoot someone in the center of the back of the head.

I could see it happening. If the kid was so desperate he knew the only way she'd give him money is by threatening her with a gun, even putting it to her head, and maybe he's shaking so badly he shoots her by accident. Maybe that's why he put a towel to her head, thinking maybe he could stop the bleeding. 

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I think we need an entire episode of Dateline dedicated to the apparent disappearance of every other reporter, apart from Andrea Canning.

I'm not even sure why they aired Friday's episode about the small town Georgia teacher who went missing.  There really was no conclusion--the cops say they got the right guy, but no trial yet, no motive, no official linkage of the alleged perp to the crime (we can assume DNA probably had something to do with it, but still speculation), no answer as to why he wasn't followed up on better three weeks post-disappearance despite the cops being told about him, no body found, nothing on how the abduction and presumptive murder happened.  All they could really say was that the ex boyfriend didn't do it and a podcaster came to town to talk about the mystery.  Utter time waster....I'd rather they have waited until something concrete came out about the suspect and the crime.

And to be completely bitchy, the former student/beauty contestant gal had some truly freaky eye shadow going on that was beyond distracting.

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The podcast is being developed as a series for their "Sister Network", Oxygen.   Mystery solved.

2 hours ago, Lizzing said:

I'm not even sure why they aired Friday's episode about the small town Georgia teacher who went missing. 

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I kept waiting to hear Duke’s motive for killing the teacher...and nothing. Why was he at the house? What happened?  So much filler in that episode that they forgot to give us the real meat of the story!

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I was also baffled why they aired the episode.

 

I mean this was just straightforward reporting with no introduction of the killer until Dateline announced who he was.  Not Dateline's normal format, even when it is painfully obvious whom the killer was.

 

Seems like something was missing.

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3 hours ago, Lizzing said:

I think we need an entire episode of Dateline dedicated to the apparent disappearance of every other reporter, apart from Andrea Canning.

I'm not even sure why they aired Friday's episode about the small town Georgia teacher who went missing.  There really was no conclusion--the cops say they got the right guy, but no trial yet, no motive, no official linkage of the alleged perp to the crime (we can assume DNA probably had something to do with it, but still speculation), no answer as to why he wasn't followed up on better three weeks post-disappearance despite the cops being told about him, no body found, nothing on how the abduction and presumptive murder happened.  All they could really say was that the ex boyfriend didn't do it and a podcaster came to town to talk about the mystery.  Utter time waster....I'd rather they have waited until something concrete came out about the suspect and the crime.

And to be completely bitchy, the former student/beauty contestant gal had some truly freaky eye shadow going on that was beyond distracting.

I thought I had missed stuff since I was multitasking* while watching, so I rewound. But, no, they just didn't tell us anything about how he was linked to the crime. It was just a huge build-up, then at the end, "Ryan and Bo did it." Two people that hadn't even been mentioned. 

I found the guy pretending to be the catchmekiller on FB. He seems to be leading a pretty normal life. 

The eyebrows on that "beauty queen" were horrendous.

*multitasking = scrolling various apps on my phone while watching TV

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10 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

*multitasking = scrolling various apps on my phone while watching TV

Or crocheting a pattern that requires counting stitches.  So I DIDN'T miss anything, because there was nothing to miss in the presentation, right?

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7 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Or crocheting a pattern that requires counting stitches.  So I DIDN'T miss anything, because there was nothing to miss in the presentation, right?

Nope. Not a thing.

Ryan and Bo Duke (No relation) did it. 

That statement is as much as what Andrea Canning told us about the actual crime.

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I did find an article about the arrest of the two men.  Apparently, Duke was trying to burglarize her home and she caught him, struggle ensued, etc.  Another discussed how their two attorneys want a lot of the charges dropped....because (basically) the police had heard reports about their alleged admissions at a party and did not arrest them at that time.  In other words, they probably should go free because of that fact.  Right.

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2 hours ago, Blissfool said:

 

The eyebrows on that "beauty queen" were horrendous.

They were very distracting! And I thought her eye make up brought more attention to their odd shape. I just want to grab my eyebrow pencil and fix them. 

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Why is Andrea doing so many of the episodes? Also her jacket in the interviews was too tight.  I was distracted by how it pulled above her boobs under her arms.  

Dateline must really be scraping the bottom for crimes.  This one was not done well at all.  I was another one re-winding to see what I missed because the arrest made no sense.  Plus I wanted to hear more about this barbecue and when she left and they did not give any details. 

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If Dateline needs crimes, there are 6 murder cases not yet tried in my small town, in the court system of Cherokee County, NC. One of ‘em I can give them some background on, about the accused. He was a bully in high school, so I wasn’t suprised he gunned someone down.

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well, damn, I am glad I am not the only one who was pissed off that they didn't go any further about the two Duke guys who killed the Ga. gal. What a waste of time, however I did enjoy staring at the really bad eye shadow, eyebrows and lipstick on literally EVERYONE! Whoa. Those southern bells must have done their own makeup. What a cheap crime show.

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The podcast is being developed as a series for their "Sister Network", Oxygen.   Mystery solved.

You might be onto something. I too felt like the entire episode was a baffling and unsatisfying waste of time. There was also a strange lack of information about Tara's family aside from a brief shot of a family photograph. What of her parents, and her siblings, assuming she had any? Why did none of them participate or have anything to say?

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And to be completely bitchy, the former student/beauty contestant gal had some truly freaky eye shadow going on that was beyond distracting.

Nobody told her you can't do the smokey eye and the big red lips at the same time.  You have to pick one or the other!

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8 hours ago, Blissfool said:

The eyebrows on that "beauty queen" were horrendous.

If there's anything I've learned from Dateline it's that any girl who ever  donned her Aunt Shirley's one piece bathing suit along  with her four inch  heels and wobbled across the stage at the Peach County Boiled Peanut Festival is a beauty queen.

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9 hours ago, Blissfool said:

I thought I had missed stuff since I was multitasking* while watching, so I rewound. But, no, they just didn't tell us anything about how he was linked to the crime. It was just a huge build-up, then at the end, "Ryan and Bo did it." Two people that hadn't even been mentioned. 

I found the guy pretending to be the catchmekiller on FB. He seems to be leading a pretty normal life. 

The eyebrows on that "beauty queen" were horrendous.

*multitasking = scrolling various apps on my phone while watching TV

Omg I did the same thing! I rewound it because I figured I must’ve missed something.  

Question, if they took the dna from every man in town and the alleged killer lived in town, why didn’t they catch him sooner? Was he not in town then?

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3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Nobody told her you can't do the smokey eye and the big red lips at the same time.  You have to pick one or the other!

And you also can't do smoky and blue on the same eye.  Well, okay, you can, but you'll look like a loon, even without the loony brows.

It was interesting to me that the victim's family appeared not to want to have anything to do with this retake.  Good for them, I say.  I'm guessing they twigged to the fact that it was just an exploitation for the sake of promoting the new show, at her expense.

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On 9/29/2018 at 6:13 PM, Annber03 said:

When Canning was walking around in that field at the beginning and talking about how tough it is to walk around there 'cause of the brush and all, my mom commented on how weird it was that she was wearing a pair of pants that cut off above the ankles.

 

On 9/29/2018 at 6:15 PM, tobeannounced said:

And heels! 

I have a pair of jeans like that and they only look right with heels. I got them somewhere on clearence for $5 and thought maybe I could roll them to Capri length but I couldn’t. I love the fit though but yeah, they are an odd length. 

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31 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

Why are they rerunning the Cal Harris story? Why? Why????

And it was just rerun on either USA or MSNBC this past week--both NBCU properties--so it's not like regular NBC couldn't have known about it.  I am sick of Cal and his smug mug.

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37 minutes ago, Lizzing said:

And it was just rerun on either USA or MSNBC this past week--both NBCU properties--so it's not like regular NBC couldn't have known about it.  I am sick of Cal and his smug mug.

I’m so tired of the cal Harris case. 

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In addition to this story having no closure, Mr. Millennial Podcaster was very off putting IMO.  He has no background in crime investigation or journalism, but since “Serial” was so popular, the lazy ass decided to copy it?  How very original and industrious of him! Plus, he seemed very pleased with himself for being quasi-famous.  Dude, you Googled cold cases and stumbled upon this poor girl’s story to exploit. Hope those 20 minutes worth of keystrokes didn’t wear you out!  But I am not a tech savvy, woke millennial, so what do I know about good storytelling...

Yeee-ah, I’m gonna suggest the young lady with the horrific eye makeup watch this episode, then realize the error of her ways, and toss every one of the 276 products she used for her TeeVee debut in the trash can.  Yikes.

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15 minutes ago, BusyOctober said:

 

Yeee-ah, I’m gonna suggest the young lady with the horrific eye makeup watch this episode, then realize the error of her ways, and toss every one of the 276 products she used for her TeeVee debut in the trash can.  Yikes.

Two hundred and seventy six products indeed. Lol. 

I just happened to record several Dateline on OWN episodes, and one was supposed to be about a beauty queen, so I tuned in in case it was the original episode that was mentioned on this Dateline epi, but it turned out to be not even a Dateline show. Like others have posted I was annoyed at this waste of an episode. It was obvious that the ex boyfriend did not kill Tara, but Andrea spent so much time grilling him that I was getting annoyed. It seemed like filler and I guess as it turns out, it was. 

I am also tired of these women being described as so kind, and sweet, and wholesome. Tara obviously was still stuck on her ex, and unable to move on. It appears (though they didn't come out and say it) that her ex might have had a no contact order of some sort against her since she wrote his mother, since she was not allowed to contact him. On top of that, she was sleeping with a married cop, and had slept with at least one of her students a couple of years after he graduated, Not exactly the person she was made out to be. 

But yes, it was annoying that so much info was left out as to what evidence the police had to arrest her alleged killers, and how that came about. 

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Y’all are harsh, LOL!  I have to confess that I was more distracted by “best friend Maria’s” long, obviously fake two front teeth (she reminded me of a little mole rat!) than the other girl’s overdone makeup.

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In regard to last week's episode with the college student found on the soccer field.....my two kids both went to the same college as the murdered girl when this crime happened. Neither of them knew her personally, but my daughter knew her tangentially -- a 'friend of a friend' kind of situation. My daughter knew only good things about Halee, and said that from everything she knew, Halee was a very sweet, well-liked girl. I think part of the shock of the crime was that even though Evansville is the third-largest city in Indiana, it still very much has a small-town feel to it, and people don't expect things like this to happen.

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Mr. Millennial Podcaster was very off putting IMO.  He has no background in crime investigation or journalism, but since “Serial” was so popular, the lazy ass decided to copy it?  How very original and industrious of him! Plus, he seemed very pleased with himself for being quasi-famous.  Dude, you Googled cold cases and stumbled upon this poor girl’s story to exploit.

And as far as I could tell his podcast had nothing whatsoever to do with the police finally finding the killers. 

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On 10/6/2018 at 1:11 PM, LakeGal said:

Why is Andrea doing so many of the episodes? Also her jacket in the interviews was too tight.  I was distracted by how it pulled above her boobs under her arms.  

Dateline must really be scraping the bottom for crimes.  This one was not done well at all.  I was another one re-winding to see what I missed because the arrest made no sense.  Plus I wanted to hear more about this barbecue and when she left and they did not give any details. 

I agree.  I want MORE Keith and Josh.  I like Andrea, but she needs to take a break.  

On 10/7/2018 at 1:49 AM, Marmiarmo said:

Y’all are harsh, LOL!  I have to confess that I was more distracted by “best friend Maria’s” long, obviously fake two front teeth (she reminded me of a little mole rat!) than the other girl’s overdone makeup.

quiet voice.....me too.  ☺️

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A few questions - is there any rhyme or reason to the schedule of Dateline? 

The best I can figure out is new episodes often play on Friday nights, older ones often play on Saturdays, sometimes new ones play on Sunday night, and then there are also other various days of the week that an episode plays.  It just seems so chaotic to me. Then there are all the old episodes that are played on other channels constantly. Also, are the same episodes played all over the country, or do different regions get different episodes at different times?  It really annoys me for some reason.  I never know when I come to this thread when/if folks will be discussing an episode that I just saw.  In contrast, 48 Hours only shows on Saturday nights. I love the consistency of this.

Anyway, just venting!

I recently discovered the podcast "A Date with Dateline".  Has anyone here listened to it? Its probably not everyone's cup of tea. The hosts are fairly scattered, but I find it pretty funny and quirky, and I enjoy their overly nit-picky analysis of each episode. Its the type of podcast I can put on in the background while I am doing other things.

Edited by ChristmasJones
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It’s really hard to know what really happened...but a plane going down that fast and he was very young..I am inclined to believe him.  He made the calls so she would be found.  He didn’t go on to become a criminal.  The plane went down 250 ft there is no way he could dive down and save her.

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He didn’t go on to be a criminal? Stealing a baby’s name, fake birth certificate, fake social security number, etc..... that’s criminal. He should have gone immediately to authorities, but he didn’t. He took the money and ran.  At least now everyone knows his name and face in case he tries to fool another woman like the one with the blue hair.

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I believe Michael/Jerry also had an arrest record in Texas for a couple break in/robberies. He did not live a clean life after.

I did not believe him. I think his call to his buddy told his true feelings about his girlfriend. I would not be surprised if he was the one that buckled her in. She had on both belts done up and it was twisted. He undid his before he attempted the landing. She was trapped. He loved her but took time to get out his belongings and the money. But not her? I don't believe he even tried. I think he took the opportunity to ditch her and take her money.

He can act like they were Romeo and Juliet. But Romeo would not have left her.

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2 hours ago, Jpxfactor said:

The plane went down 250 ft there is no way he could dive down and save her.

Interesting that he could get himself out as well as his duffel bag though.  It also begs the question, why did he run?  

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1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

He didn’t go on to be a criminal? Stealing a baby’s name, fake birth certificate, fake social security number, etc..... that’s criminal.

On that note, I found it really disturbing how he was able to go as far as he did with his new life with these fake documents-going to a good school and moving up in the world and all that. It's like the stories I've heard about people using fake documents to fool the military, or other really high-profile, important lines of work, and get jobs there. Aren't there supposed to be people checking on this stuff and trying to stop these scammers ahead of time? How the hell do they manage to sneak by like that so easily for so long? 

I didn't believe the guy, either. It just seemed like such a really weird, elaborate, ludicrous plan. He was talking about how he was going to land the plane safely and he and his girlfriend would just calmly get out-yeah, you aren't Sully on the Hudson here, bud. And he did this at night, where it'd be harder to see and he has zero training for night flights or landings of any sort, let alone landing in water. If he was telling the truth and he genuinely believed it'd be that easy, then at best, he's an idiot. But given he's got the smarts to steal a plane, and commit various scams and frauds, obviously I don't think the "idiot" explanation fits here. 

I felt for her poor dad. You could see how painful the memories still were all this time later. And he lost his wife as well, and in such a heartbreaking way at that. 

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4 hours ago, applecrisp said:

Anyone watch last night? The girl in the lake. I am not sure what to think.

I don't know what to think either, which is why I came here to get other viewpoints.

I wondered why he didn't put the wheels up when trying to land in the lake. For sure those wheels were going to flip the plane if not make it break apart. I wasn't sure how he got out if the plane flipped and then he was "behind the plane and went to the wrong door" to try to get his girlfriend out. And supposedly the one bag (with th $22,000) floated out?

It seems like it was a good plan, they had packed a raft, had their bags wrapped in plastic and so forth.

If he meant to kill her, he could have pushed her out of the plane over that lake and kept going.

Her hair shut in the door is all kinds of weird though. Did he do that ... when? Before they left Canada? Was she dead already when he sunk the plane? Did the aircraft owner get an insurance payout when the plane was stolen? That was never mentioned.

What did the abortion have to do with anything? Did the boy kill the girl because she was pregnant? He didn't know about the abortion? That was so odd to mention it if it didn't mean anything.

2 hours ago, Midnight Sun said:

Screw you, principles - I'll first accompany this dude to Japan and maybe afterwards I'll turn him in.

I could totally follow her thinking. A free trip to Japan? Yeah, I woulda put my turn-in plans on hold too, although I'd make sure everyone knew where I was every minute in case he decided to kill me in Asia.

Her hesitation to turn him in is so common, I don't begrudge her that at all. Because she did after all.

Crazy that he went on to be so successful and wealthy. Goes to show, hardly anyone is who they appear to be.

I do think they had a plan to escape the floating plane. It sinking instantly wasn't in the plan.

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I'm wondering if the girl got the plane door open when they hit the lake, or the door popped open with the impact, but then she couldn't get her belt undone. The plane sinking pushed the door shut and caught her long hair in it.

Yeah, that makes sense to me.

I actually can understand him being on the run though. When I was that age, I knew everything and, looking back, nothing at all.

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I well believe she died of drowning.  What I don’t believe is the rest of the gaping holes in his story.  Even if I give him the benefit of the doubt and buy the crash was an accident, I find it less credible to believe he escaped with his belongings and all the money, but couldn’t help her, and then even if he had gotten free and couldn’t help her, why go ashore and burn everything and not say a word to anyone about the plane.  Maybe he didn’t purposely kill her, but I will never be convinced he tried at all to save her.  I also wonder if they did any toxicology screens because it seems odd that she showed no broken nails or any signs of trying to get free.  I won’t even get into the strange stuff he said on the phone…sheesh! 

Another thing that really bugged me that I haven’t seen mentioned is when Jerry (or whatever you prefer to call him) told Keith he was appalled at the way Diane’s parents acted towards him.  Appalled, really? I would understand him saying I feel bad or sad or sorry that her family feels that way, but maybe try some empathy.    

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1 hour ago, saber5055 said:

I wondered why he didn't put the wheels up when trying to land in the lake. For sure those wheels were going to flip the plane if not make it break apart. 

I don't think a small Cessna has retractable wheels.

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2 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

I don't think a small Cessna has retractable wheels.

Oh, well duh. I guess that would explain why they were down. You are correct! Thanks for the info!

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3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

On that note, I found it really disturbing how he was able to go as far as he did with his new life with these fake documents-going to a good school and moving up in the world and all that. It's like the stories I've heard about people using fake documents to fool the military, or other really high-profile, important lines of work, and get jobs there. Aren't there supposed to be people checking on this stuff and trying to stop these scammers ahead of time? How the hell do they manage to sneak by like that so easily for so long? 

I've wondered about that too when I hear stories like this.  I think there was much more involved in getting the deceased child's birth certificate than what he said.  I'm fairly certain Vital Records would ask questions that the only way he would know the answers to is if he first got his death certificate, like knowing Michael's parents names and maybe the mother's maiden name.  I don't think it's as easy to obtain a birth certificate from a stranger as he tried to make it seem.

I also had some doubts that the person who picked him up hitchhiking and brought him all the way to Dallas had also stole all of his money. That just seemed strange to me.  Not really sure why he would make something like that up, though. 

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11 hours ago, Tenarife60 said:

I've wondered about that too when I hear stories like this.  I think there was much more involved in getting the deceased child's birth certificate than what he said.  I'm fairly certain Vital Records would ask questions that the only way he would know the answers to is if he first got his death certificate, like knowing Michael's parents names and maybe the mother's maiden name.  I don't think it's as easy to obtain a birth certificate from a stranger as he tried to make it seem.

 

I actually disagree. I went to the Town Hall just a couple weeks ago and and asked for a new copy of my daughter’s birth certificate. I gave her name and date of birth. The clerk pulled it up, printed it out, embossed it, asked for the $10 and I was on my way. I look a good 10-15 years younger than my age and she never questioned me asking for a 21 year old’s birth certificate. I was legit, so I didn’t question it. I live in a decent sized town (about 40,000). I didn’t know the clerk. So, I guess that should’ve been harder. 

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I don’t think he tried terribly hard to save her if he tried at all. I don’t necessarily think it was his intention that she die, but I don’t think he lost sleep over her loss except where it might get him in legal trouble. That he came out of the water with his clothes and the money does give me pause, but there’s no way he could know how she’d get stuck in the plane when they ditched it.  She did decide to do this crazy thing with him, in the end. 

He comes across as pretty damn unfeeling. The phone call from Texas proves to me that he could take her or leave her. Then, he’s apalled at her family’s behavior. He’s definitely an asshole. I do wish he’d at least gotten into some real trouble from all of the other BS he pulled. 

Also, why on earth did he confess to blue haired lady? I don’t get that. Did he want all of this to finally be dealt with, but couldn’t pull the trigger on it himself? 

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