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S06.E02: A Bitter Draught

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I will add a positive post.  I thought it was a decent episode.  

I am glad that the evil Queen was revealed instead of there being a few episodes where Regina was suspected of misdeeds and then feeling hurt when people did not trust her.

I know it is a little contrived, but I like the fact that they are using David's history and will be giving him a bit more to do.  I also liked that David seems a little more of an edge with Regina than Snow.  I agree with the board - there should be some friction there.  It reminded me a little bit of when they co-parented Henry in 2A when Emma and Snow were in a different land.  I also liked his scene with EQ at the end.  Nice to see different characters mix it up (same with Belle and Hook).

I liked the Regina-Zelina-Queen dynamic.  

I do think they are doing a little better job of making Regina face what she did in the past.  I also she seemed more genuinely remorseful and overwhelmed than whiny than she has in the past.

I guess I will add a negative thought -- I cannot imagine who they are ever going to redeem Rumple in a way for him to get back with Belle, and I am afraid they will do just that.  As much as people complain about Regina being considered reformed, Rumple has never really expressed any remorse or desire to change.  He sells out everyone over and over again and needs simply be a villain without any talk of him being good.  My fear is that he will get a last minute reformation at the end of the series so he and Belle can end up together.

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I honestly think Rumple is going to die (for good and for real) at the end of the series.  I just don't see him and Belle marrying and living happily ever after, and Robert Carlyle has spoken pretty dismissively about the idea before (as well as the idea of him ever being a good guy.)

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17 minutes ago, Mathius said:

I honestly think Rumple is going to die (for good and for real) at the end of the series.

After he and Belle get back together again, and then break up again, a few more times. At least once per season.

27 minutes ago, CCTC said:

I am glad that the evil Queen was revealed instead of there being a few episodes where Regina was suspected of misdeeds and then feeling hurt when people did not trust her.

That's a very good point. We were dreading that (another rehash of season 2, when it was Cora framing Regina and everyone else was terrible for blaming Regina), but they skipped that entirely. There's still a chance that the Evil Queen will try to impersonate Regina or frame her, but at least everyone already knows the Evil Queen is around, so they'll know it's a possibility that it was really the Evil Queen rather than thinking the only possible explanation is that Regina did it and is lying.

On the other hand, it's a little annoying when they're talking about things Regina did in the past and acting like that was all the Evil Queen when they were the same person then, and Regina is the one who's known all along about these things that she did.

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Ugh. Why was Regina sniffing the blood after killing that hapless black knight? Why was Rumple sniffing her later?? 

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5 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Ugh. Why was Regina sniffing the blood after killing that hapless black knight? Why was Rumple sniffing her later?? 

Regina: "It's a new scent. It's called Blood Lust."

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I really did feel bad for the Count (even though I made a stupid joke to my friend about him being "down for the count" after Regina killed him). So here are two more deaths of people Snowing knew and (sorta) cared about on Regina's tab, but of course that doesn't really matter because A & E are so far up her bitchy ass that she'll never, ever need a colonoscopy. Did somebody mention Regina fatigue? Ha! I've been sick of her for a couple of seasons already. F*cking cow!

My friend and I seem to be MST3K'ing this show now.

I think JMo maybe could've done something to salvage the not really funny joke/dig at Granny's expense (like make it more teasing), but Heaven knows she can only do so much. It reminded me a lot of her line to Hook about leather conditioner and eyeliner back in s3. 

Hook's earlier apology to Belle sounded like someone apologizing for something when he/she knows an apology really doesn't even begin to cover it, IMO. Like: I will offer this to you, even if it's kinda lame, and you can take it or not.

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So Regina reveals that she had sent the Count of Monte Cristo to kill them.  Cue Snow and Charming's nonchalant expressions.  Then what?  Regina didn't tell them to look out for the Edmond guy who took care of their wine cellar?  Because Snowing were surprised when they realized it was him on the docks.  This type of the thing adds to the feeling that these aren't real people and they don't have conversations off-screen.  Because wouldn't it make sense for Regina to give them some info about the person who wants to kill them?

Here's some secret audio recorded from the writers who wrote this episode...

WRITER 1: Okay, so we have Edmond what's his name holding the poisoned wine container looking into Charlotte's eyes and saying "Those eyes..."

WRITER 2: Where are we going with this?

WRITER 1: Going with what?

WRITER 2: Sorry, did I say something?  I just got distracted by this cover of "The Count of Monte Cristo".  It's just so ugly that really, I didn't want to open the book.

WRITER 1:  Well, we didn't need to.  That 1 minute Youtube clip from the movie was really informative.  Basically, he likes fighting with swords and he wants revenge.  Just like The Evil Queen.  Okay, where were we?  So... Regina kills Edmond and feels really bad about it.  Great character moment right there.

WRITER 2: Looks like we're all done for this script.  Onto the next one!

Edited by Camera One
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WRITER 2: Sorry, did I say something?  I just got distracted by this cover of "The Count of Monte Cristo".  It's just so ugly that really, I didn't want to open the book.

One of the people who watched the premiere with me actually said, "The writers probably read the backcover of books, and just use that."

Edited by KingOfHearts
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5 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think I've heard something about that maybe changing, too, but they haven't released a firm schedule. Part of the reason for the long break was all the sports and awards stuff that happens, so with episodes in January and February, it was often a week on, a week off, while they can run straight to the finale if they start in March.

I much prefer the long break to one week on, one week off. That sort of thing kills momentum. 

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Or was that Rumple's "keys to Storybrooke," that he helped Hyde select the people most likely to cause a problem for Storybrookers? He knew about Edmond and his link to both Regina and the Charmings, and he had the charm from David's father, that's sure to be linked to someone in that bunch.

I'm wondering if Rumple got the coin from Hyde because David's dad has been in the Land of Untold Stories all this time, or if it's been sitting in Rumple's shop for 30 years and Rumple told Hyde about it.

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1 hour ago, Dianthus said:

Hook's earlier apology to Belle sounded like someone apologizing for something when he/she knows an apology really doesn't even begin to cover it, IMO. Like: I will offer this to you, even if it's kinda lame, and you can take it or not.

That, and he seemed a little irked that he was cornered into an apology before he could offer one, which made it kind of not count the way it might have if he'd had a chance to apologize spontaneously. It's like when you were just about to apologize to your sibling (and, yeah, maybe earn a few brownie points in doing so on your own without being prompted), but before you can do so, your mom says, "Now, apologize," which then means that anything you say won't sound sincere. That was a very awkward situation because he was being foisted on Belle by Emma when he knew he wouldn't be welcome, and he wasn't too comfortable with it. Their relationship has progressed a bit since then.

As to whether what he said in this episode counted as an apology even if he didn't actually say "I'm sorry" again, I'm less worried about the actual words than by the overall behavior and attitude. As we saw with Regina in this episode, saying the words "I'm sorry" doesn't really make for an apology if the context is all wrong and it doesn't fit with the attitude. My problem with her all along hasn't been the lack of those specific words (though they would have been nice, especially given how much apologizing and groveling Snow has done to her). It's her overall refusal to acknowledge the harm she's done to the others. She talks as though those things, like being separated from Emma, just happened to them and gets irritated when anyone mentions her past deeds, claiming that she was a different person then, as though the fact that she decided to change means she isn't accountable for what she did before. She's never admitted that she was wrong to go after Snow the way she did, never admitted that Snow was the wrong target for her wrath. Even here, she was sorry for sending Edmond to kill the Charmings, but still didn't admit that trying to kill them at all in the first place was the wrong thing to do, not just because heroes don't kill people, but because her wrath was misplaced.

With all that in mind, Hook saying that he's taking a big risk now to help Belle because of the times he hurt her in the past counts to me as an apology because he's admitting that he harmed her, he's admitting that he was wrong to do so, he's saying he regrets what he did, and he's doing something to make up for it even though the danger she's currently in is in no way his fault or in any way related to the wrong he did to her. The words "I'm sorry" are nice, but it's the actions and attitude that count the most.

I hope the show remembers that this is Rumple's second wife to leave him and take refuge on the Jolly Roger because that should certainly affect Rumple even more than Belle hiding out at Granny's or her father's house would.

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9 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

Meanwhile, what's with all the steampunk people? What untold story are they supposed to be from? There were the Three Musketeers in the diner, but otherwise, the extras seemed to have wandered in from a steampunk convention. I'm not opposed to steampunk (I write it), but it would be lovely if they were more than set dressing. Really, I wish that they'd take some time to introduce some of these characters in the background while dealing with the Untold Story of the Week instead of just dropping in the new Untold Story of the Week with no set up.

I've been wishing that they would take some classic short stories that end unhappily and use those for inspiration in the background extras. Obviously, those characters who will be featured aren't going to show up at Granny's because they hadn't cast many of those roles at the time of filming and also aren't going to pay a guest star to stand around in the background. However, I would find it hilarious if there was a guy dressed in a baseball uniform with Mudville on the front and Casey on the back. Or how about some guy dressed for the Yukon gold rush obsessed with heat/starting a fire. Those are exactly the kind of people who wouldn't want their stories to play out. It's not something everyone would necessarily understand, but it would be more creative than random steampunk people. 

I also think that if they were going to hype Aladdin, then maybe a lingering shot showing Aladdin mingling with the refugees would help to remind the audience that his story will be featured rather than giving him a minute at the beginning of the premiere and then skipping him entirely in this episode. 

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I thought the Snowing flashback was kind of gross. Snow was completely out of touch with reality. Regina's life was spared, so she went and leveled a village where people either died or fled. Edmond tells them how he lost everything, and the reply was that maybe this wasn't the place where he was supposed to find happiness. Living a good life isn't the answer to everything.

Shut the hell up! Like how fucking out of touch can two people be?

And while the common folk suffer from the war that's being waged between Regina and the Charmings, a war that could have ended with Regina's execution, Snowing are hiring themselves a sommelier.

How fucking detached are they from reality? 

That flashback made those 2 hateful to me. They're not the ones with the problems, the villagers are. Their asses were protected by Rumple even if they didn't know. They created more problems than they solved.

I'd like to never see another Snowing flashback. The more they give us, the more unlikable those 2 become and I just have no idea where their self-righteousness comes from. Because they really haven't done all that much where they feel they can sit there in judgement of others. People suffered and died because of them.

But let's not lower ourselves to killing the EQ even though she has made everyone's lives a living hell.

Get the fuck outta here! They live in a fantasy world.

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37 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I thought the Snowing flashback was kind of gross. Snow was completely out of touch with reality. Regina's life was spared, so she went and leveled a village where people either died or fled. Edmond tells them how he lost everything, and the reply was that maybe this wasn't the place where he was supposed to find happiness. Living a good life isn't the answer to everything.

Shut the hell up! Like how fucking out of touch can two people be?

And while the common folk suffer from the war that's being waged between Regina and the Charmings, a war that could have ended with Regina's execution, Snowing are hiring themselves a sommelier.

How fucking detached are they from reality? 

That flashback made those 2 hateful to me. They're not the ones with the problems, the villagers are. Their asses were protected by Rumple even if they didn't know. They created more problems than they solved.

I'd like to never see another Snowing flashback. The more they give us, the more unlikable those 2 become and I just have no idea where their self-righteousness comes from. Because they really haven't done all that much where they feel they can sit there in judgement of others. People suffered and died because of them.

But let's not lower ourselves to killing the EQ even though she has made everyone's lives a living hell.

Get the fuck outta here! They live in a fantasy world.

Pretty much. Those two absolutely lack empathy, unless it's towards each other, or in Snow's case, Regina. She literally says her policy is to be happy and ignore the hundreds of innocent people leveled by Regina because she herself was safe (Snow knew Regina couldn't harm her). They hold part responsibility for these mass murders. At the very least, they never should have let Regina out of prison. Hey--but as long as Snow was safe, who cares about other people, right?

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13 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

Snow knew Regina couldn't harm her

Is it canon that she knew? I thought she might have known, but I wasn't sure.

That makes it so much worse. 

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43 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Is it canon that she knew? I thought she might have known, but I wasn't sure.

That makes it so much worse. 

She made the deal with Rumple to make it happen.

Snow is partially to blame for everything Regina has done after she let her go. If she had executed her, she wouldn't have been separated from her daughter for 28 years.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Snow has always been like that. She was born into a life of privilege and sees it as her due because she is royalty. We first saw it first when Snow was a child. She reined it in after her mother scolded her and started thinking about other people but only second to herself. Snow has never been the totally selfless person working for the good of her people. It's always been all about her. Snow represents a pretty accurate depiction of the feudal aristocracy in the real world.

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The Writers' lack of concern or care about redshirts or villagers is obvious from the dialogue they wrote for Snowing in this episode.  A Snow White who acts like this is not Snow White.  She is supposed to have great empathy and it would bother her greatly if others were suffering because of her.

In "The Cricket Game", Snow says the following as she banishes Regina.

Snow White: You saved my life once, and now I've saved yours. So we're even. And if you ever try to hurt anyone in my kingdom again, I will kill you.

That actually contradicts what Snow says in this episode about how if Edmond killed The Evil Queen, he would be stooping to his level.  I really hated how Snowing were written in this episode, but they just feel like (once again) mouthpieces of the Writers and another pathetic attempt to impart the lesson of the week Regina learns, that "the best revenge is to have a good life" or whatever.  Except that is with the assumption that nobody cares about Edmond or Charlotte because... well, they don't.

This show sucks enough and I personally don't really see a reason for continuing to watch if I'm sitting here hating every character's guts.

Edited by Camera One
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I donno--it's pretty specific to Regina. I'm sure feudal arstocrats wouldn't put the lives of people they loved for the sake of their mortal enemy. I mean in the S2 finale, she would've been okay if everyone in Storybrooke (including Charming, Emma, Henry, and herself) had died saving Regina because she didn't want to build a future on "Regina's blood". I really think she's messed up mentally after everything she went through--maybe it's some weird PTSD. 

ETA: I don't hate Snow. Simply because she doesn't seem like a real character anymore. She's become a cardboard cutout who exists to spout random philosophical nonsense and prop up Regina. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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I really think she's messed up mentally after everything she went through--maybe it's some weird PTSD.

That's a good head-canon.  She's really messed up.

What else can we expect from a Snowing centric.  There are only two criteria:
- it's not really about them
- they come off looking incompetent/insensitive/idiotic

One can't even pretend that this episode was written from Snow or Charming's POV.  Snow should have been grieving the death of two of her household at the end instead of sitting there making Regina feel better.  Heck, she should have been going to Archie.

Edited by Camera One
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What was the point of filming the fight scene at the docks if they weren't going to have Belle or Hook hear the commotion and come help? 

3 minutes ago, Camera One said:

This show sucks enough and I don't really see a reason for continuing to watch if I'm sitting here hating every character's guts.

This somehow always happens to me with most of the shows I watch. I'll have one or two favorite characters I tune in for, but they're usually a supporting character so they don't get much screen time, and I end up sitting through an entire hour just so I can watch them on screen for 2 or 3 minutes. 

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51 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

She made the deal with Rumple to make it happen.

Okay, why can't I remember this? Which episode did this happen in? I think a rewatch is in order.

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 I really think she's messed up mentally after everything she went through--maybe it's some weird PTSD. 

Snow is messed up. But I think she's always been like this. And she's domineering. David can't have an opinion if it goes counter to hers. See every bad decision she's taken that he was against but didn't insist too much on it. The world is either black or white for her. You're a hero or a terrible person. If she has a soft spot for you, then you're good, even if you're the biggest asshole ever.

After this episode, I'm very much over her and the stupid things that come out of her mouth. 

There was that scene in 6x01 with Regina when she said Regina taught her to have fate, and now 6x02, plus all the previous seasons. I'm done with her character.

Edited by YaddaYadda
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Okay, why can't I remember this? Which episode did this happen in? I think a rewatch is in order.

2x10, the Cricket Game.

Edited by KingOfHearts

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5 hours ago, YaddaYadda said:

The more they give us, the more unlikable those 2 become and I just have no idea where their self-righteousness comes from. Because they really haven't done all that much where they feel they can sit there in judgement of others. People suffered and died because of them.

But let's not lower ourselves to killing the EQ even though she has made everyone's lives a living hell.

It's hard for me to blame the Charmings for this because the show is depicting them as being right in this. Executing Regina would have been wrong, just as killing Cora was. No one said anything about how none of this would have happened, that Charlotte would still be alive (and her family would have had her around while her mother was ill) and those villagers wouldn't be dead if the Charmings had executed Regina after she was put on trial, convicted, and sentenced. Instead, they're shown to be good people and in the right because Regina's now a hero, and she wouldn't have been able to become a hero if she'd been executed.

I still mostly blame Regina (other than the writers) because she seldom seems to care about the people she hurt or killed and is more to blame for the deaths she caused than the Charmings are, and she continued her vendetta against them even when they showed her mercy. They could have killed her and didn't, and that didn't change the way she viewed them at all, and we now know it didn't change her actions at all because she was still slaughtering people.

3 hours ago, Camera One said:

The Writers' lack of concern or care about redshirts or villagers is obvious from the dialogue they wrote for Snowing in this episode.

That's the real problem. Most of the non-regulars (and even some of the regulars) don't count. As long as you don't hurt or kill a regular or allow a regular to be hurt or killed, you're okay. Slaughtering a village is an embarrassing indiscretion that it's impolite to bring up because Regina is a totally different person now, and that was the Evil Queen. Letting Regina go instead of executing her was the right thing to do because it kept her alive, never mind the other people she killed.

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Just watched the episode. Thoughts...

- Were they counting on nobody having read the Count of Monte Cristo because that story was totally, if not completely, unlike the real story . His fiancé isn't even dead - she ended up married to his arch enemy. Did A&E just say "We need a story with revenge in it!!" and remembered that book featured a revenge plot? No need to read it. Show some respect to your viewers. 

- All it took was a pair of fine eyes to distract him from his revenge plot? Seriously? He's willing to kill an innocent couple for a list of names, but not one more innocent person than that? It's nice he has standards.

- Look, another couple of people killed because of Regina. Push Monte in the water. Then, go get Emma before he can find a way up onto dry land.

- I had visions of pre-serum Steve Rodgers with Josh and his trash can lid. "I can do this all day".

- Snow never ran away? How hard did she get hit in the head? She ran away from Regina a bazillion times and was trying to get Blackbeard to take her to another realm altogether

- Pffft.  We aren't going to do anything to stop Regina except complain and hire survivors of the villages she destroys to be our servants? Argh.

- Hook and Belle & Emma and Archie had some nice scenes.

- "Visitors, here are your keys to your room where we wouldn't ask our worst enemy to sleep. Welcome!" Huh? Emma was still in the same room as all the newcomers when she said that about Granny's beds.

- "What's a jukebox?" LOL. Why would you even put the keys there? How about handing them out instead of leaving them like birdseed next to the bathroom. People need that spot to put hearts back into their loved ones.

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@kili I loved your post, but this line really elevated it to the next level:  People need that spot to put hearts back into their loved ones. ;-)

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Confession: Until Regina said it, I didn't realize "draught" was pronounced "draft" in the title. I was pronouncing it like "drought" and didn't realize the difference. 

Edited by KingOfHearts
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Did Snow ever find out that her sweet handmaiden Charlotte was dead at the dirigible? Does she even care? Would she even remember? Would it bother her at all that her own ridiculous morality and needs for a sommelier led to that woman's death?

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But she was happy in the meantime, @KAOS Agent.  Happiness is the best revenge.

Okay, it was really short-lived.  But those twenty minutes were blissful, darn it!  Sweet, sweet vengeance!

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Did Snow ever find out that her sweet handmaiden Charlotte was dead at the dirigible?

No real human emotions were used or considered in the making of this product.  We thank you for your patronage.

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33 minutes ago, KAOS Agent said:

Did Snow ever find out that her sweet handmaiden Charlotte was dead at the dirigible? Does she even care? Would she even remember? Would it bother her at all that her own ridiculous morality and needs for a sommelier led to that woman's death?

What's sad about Charlotte is that she was expected somewhere, she had a sick mother who was waiting for her and she never even got there. 

The way they're writing Snow, she'll probably say something ridiculous like she was happy in the Land of Untold Stories with Edmond, and now they're reunited in the afterlife or some you know, hopeful bullshit.

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Weren't Snow and Charming confused when their wine-bearer never came back from the wine-cellar with that bottle of wine, and when Charlotte suddenly disappeared from the table in a puff of smoke or something, and neither of them were ever seen again?

I feel like the writers insulted Alexandre Dumas by using his character in such an idiotic fashion. It was one thing to misuse Rapunzel. It's another to do so with characters from classic literature. The problem I have is that the character was the Count of Monte Cristo in name only. Neither his backstory nor his character was anything like in the book--not even in a "clever twist" manner. It's like name-dropping imposters. 

Edited by Rumsy4
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I thought the worst thing they did to Edmond was that he did the right thing in giving up his revenge to save Charlotte and not only did she die anyway, but he did too. Great message there. So hopeful.

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When you think about how long Edmond spent with Charlotte in the Land of Untold Stories, that's like more than 28 years.  In terms of relationships on this show, be it friendships or romantic, it's probably the longest one, so it stings extra that whatever it was they had ended like that. It's even sadder that they both knew Charlotte was done the second Hyde took them out of the Land of Untold Stories.

I don't find there's anything hopeful about Once. Not if you're some minor character. If you're a minor character you get trampled on. You die in wars fought by others, you starve, you die poisoned, you get used and abused. You don't get to have a happy ending. 

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2 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

I feel like the writers insulted Alexandre Dumas by using his character in such an idiotic fashion. It was one thing to misuse Rapunzel. It's another to do so with characters from classic literature.

Right, because fairy tale characters have many versions due to how often the stories are retold, there is no definitive one.  Same goes with folk tales and mythology.  Classic literary characters, on the other hand, are a different matter.  Peter Pan, Alice in Wonderland and The Wizard of Oz could be considered exceptions, since despite being classic literature there have been many, many iconic retellings and different versions and are thus more akin to fairy tales.  But otherwise, classic literature has a definitive source that ought to be respected.  This show did well with Frankenstein and Jekyll/Hyde, but the Count of Monte Cristo was a complete misfire.  Let's hope all the other Untold Story characters fare better than him.

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I don't find there's anything hopeful about Once. Not if you're some minor character. If you're a minor character you get trampled on. You die in wars fought by others, you starve, you die poisoned, you get used and abused. You don't get to have a happy ending. 

Yeah, Adam and Eddy have absolutely no care or empathy for minor characters and honestly don't expect the audience to.  It was their justification for why Regina got to deal with her family in the underworld rather than her victims, because they didn't care about "a bunch of villagers we don't know".

Edited by Mathius
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It's also cheap writing because they derive emotion from the viewers by killing off these innocent redshirts, who they have no interest in.  Charlotte and Edmond will never be mentioned again, and characters who knew them will not be afforded screetime to grieve or even react.

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3 hours ago, Rumsy4 said:

The problem I have is that the character was the Count of Monte Cristo in name only. Neither his backstory nor his character was anything like in the book--not even in a "clever twist" manner.

This. It's not Peter Pan were the seeds to make him a creepy child abductor were already there in the original story. Hook and Regina have more in common with the literary Count than this version does. Edmond Dantes would never just straight up murder someone in a room full of people like that, he would have gotten his revenge in a far more clever manner.

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I actually spent a month of my summer reading "The Count of Monte Cristo" for this episode.  Forget Regina, why do I never learn my lesson from this show!

However, I'm glad I read it... I ended up really enjoying the book.  I guess I should thank A&E for this... funny, I feel like Snow thanking Regina for giving her hope.

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I feel like they didn't even read the wikipedia summary of the novel. In many ways, it was like the odd use of Hercules and Megara in 5B. Most of the guest stars have become so randomly portrayed, as to have very little connection to the original. 

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3 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I feel like they didn't even read the wikipedia summary of the novel. In many ways, it was like the odd use of Hercules and Megara in 5B. Most of the guest stars have become so randomly portrayed, as to have very little connection to the original. 

Marking off more names from the bucket list, I guess. The show sounds really exciting when you've got the Count of Monte Cristo, Hercules, etc. Too bad that, like the exciting moments shown in the recap specials, it's all very brief.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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2 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I actually spent a month of my summer reading "The Count of Monte Cristo" for this episode.  Forget Regina, why do I never learn my lesson from this show!

I'm glad I did though... I ended up really enjoying the book.  I guess I should thank A&E for this... funny, I feel like Snow thanking Regina for giving her hope.

I'm glad you liked it. It's always been one of my favorite classics. Let's hope A&E never decide they want to put their spin on Jane Austen's characters. Instead of refusing to dance and putting down her looks, A&E's Darcy would probably kill Elizabeth's entire family but it would be okay because her family was horrible and embarrassing. And Wickham (if they even decided to read the wikipedia summary far down enough to get to Wickham) would be just a misunderstood guy who always knew Darcy was trouble. I shouldn't put this out in the universe. They better not even think of touching Mr. Knightley, he's my forever fave! Okay, I need to stop giving them ideas. I've actually always wished there was more Jane Austen/OUaT crossover fanfic out there. I just want it done by competent fanfic writers, and not this show's writers. 

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23 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

Let's hope A&E never decide they want to put their spin on Jane Austen's characters. Instead of refusing to dance and putting down her looks, A&E's Darcy would probably kill Elizabeth's entire family but it would be okay because her family was horrible and embarrassing. 

LOL.  Darcy made a brief appearance in "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" as a potential date for Alice.  He seemed really nice.  Though that actually means they didn't read the book!

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10 minutes ago, Camera One said:

LOL.  Darcy made a brief appearance in "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland" as a potential date for Alice.  He seemed really nice.  Though that actually means they didn't read the book!

Haha! I remember that. If Alice's world is the LoUS, that means Darcy could be around somewhere. Or he traveled to LoUS after his failed proposal and his story's been on hold this whole time and *Hyde voice* he doesn't want it told!

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44 minutes ago, Rumsy4 said:

I feel like they didn't even read the wikipedia summary of the novel. In many ways, it was like the odd use of Hercules and Megara in 5B. Most of the guest stars have become so randomly portrayed, as to have very little connection to the original. 

I didn't find anything wrong with the use of Hercules, beyond it being weird he only got one episode.  At least he still had all the necessities down: young, handsome, kind, super-strong, heroic, aiming for godhood on Mt. Olympus....and then there was Megara, who was just completely random.

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Just read a snippet of the pre-Season 6 interview pertaining to this episode.

Quote

 

And for the Count of Monte Cristo?


KITSIS: Well, the Count of Monte Cristo is a perfect character for the Land of Untold Stories. We are going to find out why he ended up in the Land of Untold Stories, why he ran there. He has a very interesting connection to a few of our friends in the Enchanted Forest.

That gave the impression that he "ran" there on his own accord.  I was expecting him to be wrestling with his thirst for revenge, and he eventually deals with it and comes to terms with letting go.  And then we got this episode instead.  So what are the qualities that makes one a "perfect character for the Land of Untold Stories"?  

I'd rather have seen a simplistic but heartwarming story of Snowing helping him get over his anger, with no Evil Queen/Regina.

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It would have made more sense if he was waiting out his revenge in the Land of Untold Stories, maybe because he found out the curse was coming and his targets would be taken with it. Maybe they felt that would have been too close to Hook's waiting out his revenge in the Cora!dome.

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 Maybe they felt that would have been too close to Hook's waiting out his revenge in the Cora!dome.

I'm sorry, but that can't be true. These guys recycle more than Greenpeace.

I honestly think what happened is that A&E sent an intern down to the local book store to come back with a list of titles from the classic section which were then written on the white board. As they needed a character to serve the plot, they slotted in a famous character based on what they sort of remembered hearing that one time about the character.

They needed to come up with a character that Regina could darken her shiny new soul with by killing to heroically save the Charmings (even when the Charmings are passed out, they are ruining Regina's life). This proves her new goodness while also tragically risking that goodness. But, the needed a reason for somebody wanting to kill the Charmings who are relatively inoffensive when they aren't egg napping. So, bibbidy-boppity-boo and a few logic twists later, they need a revenge driven character and Edmond was their man. I can't wait until they need an ornithologist to identify the redbird and Atticus Finch shows up (it says "bird" right in the title!). Or they need a run-away for Regina to re-unite with his loving parents - cue Huck Finn.

I'm kind of perversely looking forward to how they butcher all the classics they've never read.

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18 minutes ago, kili said:

I'm kind of perversely looking forward to how they butcher all the classics they've never read.

Taking this to the writers thread.

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Perhaps I have been too harsh on the writers. Perhaps they did read the Count of Monte Cristo.

In the past, the Evil Queen has had all the subtly of Wile E Coyote. Perhaps there was some creativity in her original plans, but they were overly elaborate and she would snap the trap closed too soon and end up running around after Snow trying to smash her with the magical equivalent of a cartoon sledgehammer. 

Her current plan seems to be a little more clever. She's going to seed a bunch of information to make them doubt themselves and each other. The heroes will do her the favour of tearing themselves apart. Sounds a bit like Edmond's plan. Regina is doubting her goodness. Emma is doubting future. David is doubting his father's death and the finger will be pointed at one of his friends.

So, they read the book. Liked the book. Gave the plot to their favourite character and left Edmond with a lobotomized story.

Sounds totally like them. 

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