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S06.E02: A Bitter Draught

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When a mysterious man from the Land of Untold Stories, who has a past with the Evil Queen, arrives in Storybrooke, David and Snow work together with Regina to neutralize the threat. Belle seeks Hook’s help finding a safe place to hide away from her husband, Mr. Gold. The Evil Queen continues to try to win Zelena over to her side, while Emma resumes her therapy sessions with Archie and shares her terrifying vision of the future,

 

 

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Oh, look.  It’s another ball where apparently no one bothered to ask Regina to dance.  Huh.  Well, I’m sure there’s a very good reason that Regina went to ball after ball and yet never managed to dance until David taught her.

 

Hahahahahahahhaaha!  Regina finally, finally, finally apologizes to the Charmings, and it’s still all about her.  “I’m trying to put that behind me.”  Hahahahha.   And . . . it’s immediately followed by another fairyback that ups Regina’s body count.  She’s apparently razed and ransacked “villages,” plural.  As in, well, likely lots of villages.

 

So, the big difference between super-evil, no conscience Regina and Regular Regina is that SENC Regina wants to have sex with Rumple?  Huh?  And, well, eewww.   

 

Well, they dropped the “It’s Regina/Evil Queen” in the hood thing far too early for it likely o be her.  So, does Emma get split and she fights herself?

 

On the up side, they do seem to be having Regina realize that she was at fault for things.  That's something that was definitely due.

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I would like to comment more on this episode, but I think I'm still in shock over those Rumple/Regina scenes. Going to have to give them a big nope. 

ETA that I love that the Count used the same ploy as Hook, although I'm glad it seems like those villagers all lived. 

Edited by InsertWordHere
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Henry you are an idiot.  You are not allowed to handle Hook's movie education.  Crystal Skull may have blunted the awful that was Temple of Doom, but Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom was not one of the best sequels made.  It traumatized my childhood.

But you would think its great because of the heart removal from chests that reminds you of your Mother.

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This episode was just so damn bleak! Where is the fun and adventure? Where are the light moments? The romantic moments? It was just one bad thing after another. And the flashbacks were just so boring. Are they all going to be like this? The Evil Queen and Rumple pulling all the strings and the "heroes" just helplessly going along with everything. 

And what was up with Emma and Snow at the end? Do they only exist to prop up and cheerlead for Regina now? I already have Regina fatigue and it's only episode 2!

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Hook talking to Belle and talking about how he needs to forgive himself was great.

Everything else in this episode was the exact opposite.  Also, OMG I think I threw up a lil bit while watching that Rumple/EQ scene. Good god no. 

Edited by Sarcastica · Reason: added some shit...
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It wasn't a bad episode, there was a lot of exposition.

Rumple even has portal keys. 

Emma's scenes with Archie were surprisingly good. Also that final scene? Yeah, you should be worried about both, because she is both. I like how Emma is all reassuring then goes to Archie all worried about the whole thing.

Snow's reasoning for not killing the EQ was as lame as she is.

Poor Charlotte, we hardly knew you. So we already have 2 casualties now. And Regina is responsible for both deaths.

The Belle/Hook scene was good. At least in his redemption, they address the shit he did and he genuinely apologizes. 

That Rumple/EQ scene, dear God, no more of that.

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Disappointed in the treatment of the Count of Monte Cristo.  I'm a fan of the book/character, and I wasn't expecting much but ... being killed by a flying sword thrown by Regina, really?  It also majorly downplayed the brilliance/intricacy of his revenge plots; simply murdering somebody at a party isn't his style at all.  Why bother even using that particular character for something so simple?  And what world was that supposed to be?  How did Regina even get there and know who should be on his revenge list?  (I know, TS;TW don't care.)

Also weirded out by the Rumpel/Regina scene.

I guess it was nice to hear Regina say "I'm sorry."  And Emma trying to get help by talking to Archie.  I guess other than that I'll just be here waiting for Aladdin and Jasmine to show up.

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Poor Charlotte, we hardly knew you. So we already have 2 casualties now. And Regina is responsible for both deaths.

Technically yes, but Rumple was more to blame for Charlotte's death, the bastard.  And Hyde indirectly, I suppose.

Edited by Mathius
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7 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

This episode was just so damn bleak! Where is the fun and adventure? Where are the light moments? The romantic moments? It was just one bad thing after another. And the flashbacks were just so boring. Are they all going to be like this? The Evil Queen and Rumple pulling all the strings and the "heroes" just helplessly going along with everything. 

And what was up with Emma and Snow at the end? Do they only exist to prop up and cheerlead for Regina now? I already have Regina fatigue and it's only episode 2!

Ditto. This episode was so blah. I'm not even sure how they managed to fill an hour with so much nothingness.

I have little to no interest in watching two Reginas play emotional tug of war with Zelena, who has already overstayed her welcome on this show. Nor do I care about the Count (as treated in this episode), other than perhaps Granny's line about egg-y bread. Henry is now about a hundred years too old for this 'Operation whatever' nonsense. Can't he and Violet disappear to a mall, never to be seen again, like normal teenagers? Regina/Rumple, ew. Belle? Whatever. Also, I did not care for Emma's wing-looking shirt.

Meh.

Edited by Randomosity
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The Rumple/EQ attempted seduction was just ..... NO.

Well, at least they showed a touch of back story as to how a character suddenly has a mastery of a skill that they've never shown before.

Shut up Snow. Yes, you did run from the EQ.

I have a sneaking suspicion that Henry being omni present in this episode is a hint that the 'solution' to this season will be The Author.

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Well that was something. Not good, not great, but not exactly terrible.
 

Pros:
* The Count flashbacks were on the stronger side of the episode. In the present day, with the heroes running around trying to stop him, was decent questing. Just another day in Storybrooke.
* That Hook/Belle scene... just wow. It was perfect. For one, it highlighted why Hook's redemption is so much better than Regina's.
* The Ball scene was visually stunning. I liked Regina's outfit.
* For Regina, I thought it was mostly good for her. There was development and an increasing amount of self-awareness. Killing the Count was actually a good sign to me. She was fiercely protecting Snow and Charming.

Cons:
* I cringed hard at the EQ/Regina/Snow/Charming/Henry scene at the docks. All that crap about Regina "having a choice" was a rehash of that "heroes don't kill" garbage.
* Golden Queen was gross. The show has never portrayed romantic tension between them. I could see it if EQ was just the embodiment of lust among other worldly desires, but it was implied in the flashbacks as well. I've always seen them as a twisted father/daughter relationship. WTH?
* Henry asking Hook about movie sequels? Really? How would he know them?
* Operation Cobra Part 2. These writers are soooo creative.
* It was the Count of Monte Cristo in name only. He was a retread of what we've seen before. (Revenge quest, Regina hiring someone to kill Snowing, etc.) Charlotte was very, very random.
* Snowing are idiot rulers once again. They hired a random man from a burned down village to serve their wine. Why did they not get someone with references? (He probably "knew Joanna". They really need Angie's List.) It was so easy for him to poison them.
* Archie still doesn't seem like a safe person for Emma to talk to. I'm not sure what it is, but he doesn't come off as a neutral third party.
* The latter half of this episode was very much like the premiere. A lot of random scenes were thrown at the screen to introduce a bunch of plot setup/exposition. This seems to be the format for S6.

The Evil Queen is Clippy!Rumple on steroids. She was absolutely everywhere, picking at everybody. I'm not sure whether I like it or dislike it. She's obviously not the same person from EF, but she does bring some interesting conflict. The mind games are strong because her face has some sort of impact on all the characters. She's not some random Pan or Ingrid who is only related to a specific person. She can pick at everyone's brains and there's nothing to do about it. On one hand, she's annoying. On the other, she's intriguing. Surprisingly, I found Pure!Regina to be fascinating as well.

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Shut up Snow. Yes, you did run from the EQ.

Yes, yes she did. Bandit Snow was constantly on the run.

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I have a sneaking suspicion that Henry being omni present in this episode is a hint that the 'solution' to this season will be The Author.

The Author could be the solution for any season, really. With his godlike powers, he can delete the Evil Queen from existence. We're always going to be asking why saving lives isn't "ethical".

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I would like to comment more on this episode, but I think I'm still in shock over those Rumple/Regina scenes. Going to have to give them a big nope. 

My poor Hyde Queen. :(

Edited by KingOfHearts
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18 minutes ago, Kktjones said:

And what was up with Emma and Snow at the end? Do they only exist to prop up and cheerlead for Regina now? I already have Regina fatigue and it's only episode 2!

You have to give the writers some credit for Emma and Snow having a conversation together. That hasn't happened in awhile.

I surprisingly liked the Regina/Evil Queen dynamic, but maybe that's because unlike everyone else moping around in this episode, The Queen was actually having fun.

Totally here for the Captain Book bromance. And holy crap, an actual apology for being evil that recalls previous canon.

Totally not here for EvilGold. Just....no.

Was talking to someone today about The X-Files, which reminded me of Chris Carter, the creator of that show who wrote all the bad convoluted mythology episodes. Starting to feel the same way about A&E. This episode was much better written than the premiere. Maybe they should cut off the writing and focus on other parts of the show that are suffering.

Edited by sharky
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6 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

For Regina, I thought it was mostly good for her. There was development and an increasing amount of self-awareness. Killing the Count was actually a good sign to me. She was fiercely protecting Snow and Charming.

I agree that Regina was better than usual this episode, with the sole exception of her whiny non-apology to Snowing about hiring the Count.  It's weird that they can have her be so remorseless about that, as is typical with her, and yet then have her nail remorse when it comes to actually killing the Count.  Lana Parilla really sold the devastation she felt at having to do that, after having sworn to save him before.  More of that please, show.

Edited by Mathius
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Is this whole thing about Rumple engineering Emma's birth (and the First Curse I guess) new or am I just forgetting something?

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3 minutes ago, KingOfHearts said:

* Archie still doesn't seem like a safe person for Emma to talk to. I'm not sure what it is, but he doesn't come off as a neutral third party.

Well, making sure Emma knew that Leroy had therapy sessions, and how Leroy preferred to handle them, definitely didn't add to his trustworthiness. 

Plus, the memory of his buggy body creeping out of Snow's bodice probably doesn't inspire faith, either.

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1 minute ago, adam807 said:

Is this whole thing about Rumple engineering Emma's birth (and the First Curse I guess) new or am I just forgetting something?

That was a thing way back in Season 1.  It was his whole master plan.

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Well, making sure Emma knew that Leroy had therapy sessions, and how Leroy preferred to handle them, definitely didn't add to his trustworthiness.

Couldn't Emma just Skype call Elsa or something? There's so many people she could be talking to before Archie.

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1 minute ago, Mathius said:

That was a thing way back in Season 1.  It was his whole master plan.

But have we ever heard that Rumple put a protection spell on Snow and Charming before to force Regina to cast the spell to send them to Storybrooke because it was her only recourse to hurt them?  I don't remember that.

Omniscient Evil Queen is going to get old very fast.  So she knows what Emma's untold story is.  And she knows that David father was murdered.    Based on the Count, these are likely going to be things Regina has also known and failed to share.

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4 minutes ago, Mathius said:

That was a thing way back in Season 1.  It was his whole master plan.

Ah, well hooray for continuity then! I'd completely forgotten that. Thanks!

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I hope the powers that be sprung for the high end dental plan - because if the amount of scenery chewing in this episode is any indication, there are people in the cast that are going to need it. 

Hook and Belle were good together. I like that he not only brought up the things she knew about - but also accepted responsibility for things she was unaware of too.  A redemption story where someone actually works to earn it?  For a minute I thought perhaps I had changed the channel without knowing it.

Dear Snow - this is why you kill the Evil Queen when you have the chance.  I just cannot with Snow anymore.  I have no doubt when Emma does tell her family mommy dearest will be the first to yell at her for being mean to poor, poor Regina by doubting her.  .

And really Rumple - your going to trust the Evil Queen will not go after Belle?  Okay.  Whatever.  And gross, gross, gross on Rumple and the EQ.  

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1 minute ago, ParadoxLost said:

But have we ever heard that Rumple put a protection spell on Snow and Charming before to force Regina to cast the spell to send them to Storybrooke because it was her only recourse to hurt them?  I don't remember that.

That was back in 2x10: "The Cricket Game".  

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I would think that if these are untold stories then Henry as the Author could just rewrite the endings like he did before but then the season would be over in five episodes.

I've missed Archie.  

Wasn't there some hanky panky going on between Rumple and Cora back In the EF days?  I used to think he might turn out to be Regina's dad.

Zelena is the new Belle wanting to be loved at any cost.

Edited by Autumn
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Holy shit, Craig Horner was The Count of Monte Cristo!  I always wondered what happened to him after Legend of the Seeker.  He just seemed to disappear after that, while the female lead, Bridget Regan has gone to have a pretty solid television career, so this was a treat.  I thought he was actually better here though, probably because he seemed more normal with a British accent, compared to the American one he did on the other show (which kind of made him come off like a stoner surfer at times.)  Too bad he is already dead, and was mainly used as a pawn in The Evil Queen's plan to turn Regina back to the dark side.  Which, I don't know.  Sure, I guess there were other options she could have tried, but the fact that Regina did it to save Charming and Snow does kind of show a loyalty to them that she hasn't displayed yet.  Then again, this is the same show that had Snow kill Cora to save the entire town, and they made it like she was the worst person in the planet for it, so I never really quite know how morality is suppose to work on this show.

I'm glad Emma is seeing Archie, although Archie blabbing about how Leroy discusses current events in his sessions; while maybe not that important; certainly makes me wonder if he's really good with whole patient confidentiality thing.  At least she realizes that not telling her family could be problematic, but now her reason is that since she doesn't see Regina in the vision, she is worried that it is her who she is fighting and will kill her.  Which likely means it won't be.  Probably be someone we even haven't met yet.  Although it would be hilarious if it was someone random like Archie or Leroy.

Hook letting Belle stay on the Jolly Rodger and still feeling guilt for the time he shot her was a nice moment, and one of the reasons I like his character, since he actually feels like shit for his past actions.

Always up for a good ballroom scene, although I was laughing when everyone started running, and all the waiters were still holding onto the tray of food, as they flee.  Hey, I guess you should waste good appetizers, even if you saw someone get impaled!

Evil Queen hints that Charming's dad might have actually been killed on purpose.  Are they actually going to do something with him this season?! Besides the normal "Charming hangs out in the background and looks confused" thing?

Evil Queen and Rumple?  No, show.  Just.... no.

Henry loses whatever points he might have had by mentioning Temple of Doom alongside Empire Strikes Back and Godfather II as one of the best sequels.  Get out with that shit, Henry!  Don't listen to him, Hook!

Next week is

Spoiler

vengeful Cinderella?  Dammit, show!  I want my Karen David as Jasmine stat!

Edited by thuganomics85
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The Count's introduction to Snowing in this ep reminded me so much of Hook's introduction to Snow and Emma in the EF. The only difference is that the Count wasn't found under a pile of bodies. I thought there might be some interaction with Hook, since they seemed so similar, both having been driven by revenge over a woman. That would have been interesting.

I'm with the rest of the crowd here....please no EQ and Rumple. The Mills women seem to find him creepily irresistible. I'm sure that lust for power factors into that to a large extent.

I liked Edwardian Land. The costumes were great.

So the Evil Queen can sword fight,  but she can't dance?

I would really like to see a little more happiness and swashbuckling fun.....just something lighthearted for a change.

I think Hook may have something to do with Charming's father's death? I think that had been calle here already.

Overall, I was entertained by the episode! I like that there have been more character moments.

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Is it bad I sort of understand EQ's frustration with Regina? She's just being written off even though she was a huge part of her life. I'm not saying I necessarily sympathize with her, but I can see where she's coming from. Regina's pretty dumb for dropping her past like a hot potato. While EQ was evil and horrible, she made her who she is. You can't really move on while also pretending who you used to be doesn't exist. Like what Grumpy said in S1, "I need my pain. It's what makes me Grumpy." Regina can either learn from EQ or keep ignoring her problems.

Edited by KingOfHearts
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I actually enjoyed this episode even if it was Regina heavy. I like the "Evil Queen"'s  plan. I like that they're entwining the Untold Stories with the Evil Queen (we're overcrowded already). 

The "Evil Queen" flirting with Rumpel feels so wrong. And Henry needs better lines. And the corny speeches need to be better too. 

But the episode was entertaining and I like where the plot's going. Redemption, adventures. Let's just hope we get a good amount of good episodes before they ruin it. 

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9 minutes ago, OnceUponAJen said:

I'm with the rest of the crowd here....please no EQ and Rumple. The Mills women seem to find him creepily irresistible. I'm sure that lust for power factors into that to a large extent.

I don't want them to make the beast with two backs, but I do want them to make out in town square if only to see Regina's reaction and the snark from the general population.

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Are anyone else's posts getting eaten up too? I tried to post a rather lengthy response and it just seemed to disappear. Sigh. I guess I'll try to remember what I wrote and re-type...

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3 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I don't want them to make the beast with two backs, but I do want them to make out in town square if only to see Regina's reaction and the snark from the general population.

Okay.  That might be interesting.  

But, for some reason, just the thought of them even making out is incredibly squicky.  I can't really figure out why--it's not the age difference.  I thought maybe it was because he was her teacher, but he was Cora's, too, and they made a very interesting couple.

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1 minute ago, Mari said:

Okay.  That might be interesting.  

But, for some reason, just the thought of them even making out is incredibly squicky.  I can't really figure out why--it's not the age difference.  I thought maybe it was because he was her teacher, but he was Cora's, too, and they made a very interesting couple.


To his credit, Rumple seemed completely uninterested.

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4 minutes ago, Mari said:

Okay.  That might be interesting.  

But, for some reason, just the thought of them even making out is incredibly squicky.  I can't really figure out why--it's not the age difference.  I thought maybe it was because he was her teacher, but he was Cora's, too, and they made a very interesting couple.

I think its because she is Cora's daughter.  There is a more paternal vibe with they teacher relationship with EQ and Wicked than with Cora.

That and because Rumple is squicked out and if Regina knew she'd be squicked out.

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7 minutes ago, Curio said:

Are anyone else's posts getting eaten up too? I tried to post a rather lengthy response and it just seemed to disappear. Sigh. I guess I'll try to remember what I wrote and re-type...

As I was completing my last posted, I found that the text from my previous post magically reappeared. Then, when I tried to get rid of it, my browser crashed. If it helps any, I'm using Firefox on a tablet.

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So far I am enjoying this season.  I like the idea of "unfinished stories" and many characters purposefully went to the land of unfinished stories to stop their stories from being finished.  It's an interesting concept. 

I also like the battle between Regina and The Evil Wueen and how things may not be as simple as splitting them in two.  That there may be darkness in Regina that the Evil Queen could exploit.  Plus I always did like the banter between Regina and the Charmings, "Do you really want to hear about every time I tried to kill you?'

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So the Evil Queen can sword fight,  but she can't dance?

Well yeah that makes sense.  No one bothered to teach her to dance.  Her so called husband was more interested in dancing with his daughter then his wife and later well....why bother learning how to dance when it got her no closer to getting revenge on Snow.  Learning to Sword fight had at least the potential for some revenge either on the Charmings or on the people they love.

i also liked the Therapy sesson between Emma and Archie.  I hope they continue through the season/half season or at least until Emma tells her parents that she is supposed to die. 

Hey wait!  Doe this mean Henry has three mommies?  This is going to get awkward.

Edited by Chaos Theory
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17 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Plus I always did like the banter between Regina and the Charmings, "Do you really want to hear about every time I tried to kill you?'

And David then says "YES!"  Ah, I missed the weird semi-antagonistic but semi-respectful relationship between these two, great to see it back.

Edited by Mathius
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4 minutes ago, XrystalPond said:

Regina has multiple heart to hearts with Snow - tells her all sorts of mundane things and crap - and never bothers to tell her or David about the hit man she hired. Then dismisses it like a minor detail. 

Well, in a way, it's pretty consistent characterization.

I think they're doing it by accident, without realizing how very selfish and self-centered it makes Regina, but she really does seem to think only about her own feelings and reactions to things.

It's marginally better than when the show started, but only marginally.

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I can give a pass on Regina not recounting every instance that she tried to have them killed because she did that a lot.   They know she was awful and a murderer.

I'd have a problem with it if she continued to hide what she had done when the past comes back to bite them and put Snowing in more danger by not warning them.  She hasn't done that yet.

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That was a really exposition-y episode. The first 3/4 was a story and then everything after was plot set up. Didn't the finale set up a bunch of stuff where the premiere should have done the rest? It shouldn't take four hours of show to get to this point. 

Some notes:

- Henry's tantrum in the finale ended up killing Charlotte. Great job, kid! 

- I really liked Lana's hair this episode. I like the softer, shorter look for Regina.

- I can't with Snowing. Oh look, another village burned to the ground. Well we won't let it get us down. The best way to win is to let Regina do what she wants and for us to not let it spoil our happiness. What the actual fuck?!

- Archie is a terrible therapist. You don't ever name your patients and you never, ever discuss what they talk about. Emma needs to run, not walk, away from that office and tell everyone else to not see him either. He's totally going to spill her secret isn't he?

- Since when is the Evil Queen all knowing? And if she knows everything, then Regina would know it all too. This is a very stupid route to take with her.

- Also, when was Rumpel ever sexually interested in Regina? He was totally squicked out in Storybrooke, but he was the one all for it in the past. Was he turned on by her getting high on the Black Knight's blood? That whole scene in the past was just weird.

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32 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

 

That and because Rumple is squicked out and if Regina knew she'd be squicked out.

That might be it.  Rumple's reaction was pretty horrified, and that might be the reason I had a visceral "ewwww."

28 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Well yeah that makes sense.  No one bothered to teach her to dance.  Her so called husband was more interested in dancing with his daughter then his wife and later well....

Sorry.  No, I don't think it does.

Regina was a princess, and would have grown up with the same rules and privileges that other princesses grew up with in the Enchanted Forest.  There were dancing lessons.

There is absolutely no way Regina grew up and survived in "My Daughter Will Be Queen" Cora's household without learning to dance.

Regina lied.  It's simply a far, far more plausible answer than "No one taught her."

Edited by Mari
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I think this might have been a much better episode if you either didn't remember earlier episodes or had forgotten them. Like Henry saying that the Untold Stories people are trying to stop the stories in the book from playing out. So now the book is going beyond what actually happened and the Author wrote stories that haven't happened yet? Or did the Author manage to write the destined stories even though the people fled to the Land of Untold Stories to put things on pause? Did these people actually know what their fated stories were, or were they like the Count of Monte Cristo, who was hitting pause for some other reason rather than actually deliberately stopping his particular story? The Author mythology remains one of the biggest weaknesses in the show. They spelled out too much for it to still be so fuzzy, but then keep throwing in random things or inserting it into other things.

I think I'd have been more affected by the aftermath of Regina killing the Count if it hadn't been for the way previous similar situations were handled. Most of it was okay, with the talk about heroes needing to find another way. But good old "heroes don't kill people" Henry was the one telling Regina she had no choice. So we have yet another victim of Regina's dying and everyone else being sympathetic to Regina about it. It was actually kind of nice getting to hear the Evil Queen throw shade about it, but I'm still tired of everyone acting like killing in defense of others is the path to darkness. There are so many other things about Regina that are a path to darkness. This isn't one of them. And it's funny how much remorse she showed about this, but she can only manage a snarky "I'm sorry" about her schemes to kill the Charmings, like it was unreasonable of them to be upset about it.

I won't argue that Emma doesn't need therapy, but I still feel like siccing a shrink on her was a weird overreaction to what her parents saw, and this doesn't seem like the kind of thing best dealt with through therapy. And she's definitely not the only one who could use a shrink.

I liked the Hook and Belle stuff, but it threw the Regina stuff into sharp contrast, and the music seemed awfully loud, so it drowned out what they were saying. And it's funny that Belle didn't react at all to the fact that Hook was alive. When she went under the sleeping curse, he was dead.

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17 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think I'd have been more affected by the aftermath of Regina killing the Count if it hadn't been for the way previous similar situations were handled. Most of it was okay, with the talk about heroes needing to find another way. But good old "heroes don't kill people" Henry was the one telling Regina she had no choice. So we have yet another victim of Regina's dying and everyone else being sympathetic to Regina about it. It was actually kind of nice getting to hear the Evil Queen throw shade about it, but I'm still tired of everyone acting like killing in defense of others is the path to darkness. There are so many other things about Regina that are a path to darkness. This isn't one of them. And it's funny how much remorse she showed about this, but she can only manage a snarky "I'm sorry" about her schemes to kill the Charmings, like it was unreasonable of them to be upset about it.

This was the biggest issue I had with it.  I'm not saying she was wrong to kill the Count to save Snowing; but if you make a comparison....  Emma and Snow killed villains in the defense of others.  Regina killed someone under a compulsion.  Someone she set on this path originally.  Someone that turned his back on revenge until the EQ took control.

I was actually wondering if EQ actually just plucked Count's heart or if it was something that Regina left hanging around in her crypt.  I think its fair to assume that Regina has hearts in her vault that she hasn't mentioned and hasn't bothered to try to return.  The same as she hasn't mentioned all the nefarious things she's done because they are not an immediate concern in her day to day life until the past rears its head. 

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I loved seeing Snow and Charming riding through the Enchanted forest again, right up until they took the bad guy home.
I loved seeing Snow and David fighting together on the docks against the bad guy right until knocked them out. 
Sigh. At least they are doing stuff together. 

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2 hours ago, Senna said:

 And what world was that supposed to be? 

I think it's just Enchanted France, just like there seems to be an Enchanted Denmark and an Enchanted China/East Asia. Meanwhile, they have also shown a "real" England and a fictional England in a separate realm from the Enchanted Forest. 

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8 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

I think it's just Enchanted France, just like there seems to be an Enchanted Denmark and an Enchanted China/East Asia.

Though possibly a different Enchanted France from Belle's Enchanted France, where people have French names and speak with Australian accents.

I'm hazy on the Count of Monte Cristo, since my Dumas phase was in high school, but was his fiancee killed? I thought that the whole scheme to get him imprisoned was so one of the schemers could marry his fiancee, and then she also became a target of his revenge because she did marry one of the schemers while he was in prison. And if he'd supposedly been imprisoned for a decade, it might have helped if they'd cast someone who looked older than about 18. I liked this actor otherwise, but when he mentioned being in prison for a decade and then rebuilding his fortune after that, I couldn't help but giggle at the image of a small child being thrown into prison.

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8 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

I thought that the whole scheme to get him imprisoned was so one of the schemers could marry his fiancee, and then she also became a target of his revenge because she did marry one of the schemers while he was in prison.

That's correct. She did not die. When Edmond did the double take at poor Charlotte, I thought she was going to turn out to be the dead fiancee, or if the actor for the Count had been a little older, his heretofore unknown child with the not actually dead fiancee. I probably got this idea from the Jim Caviezel film adaptation which annoyingly changed the paternity of Mercedes' child from the schemer Fernand to Edmond.

2 hours ago, Jul 68 said:


To his credit, Rumple seemed completely uninterested.

As he said when Regina told him she needed a child, "I'm flattered, but uninterested." Except this time he didn't even seem that flattered.

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Wasn't that episode so full of hope?  Innocent people die, villains laugh all the way to the Vault... just what I want to watch on a Sunday night.

I'm so glad I read "The Count of Monte Cristo" so they could butcher the story and The Count as well!  What was the point of that stuff about Charlotte's eyes when we didn't even see what the similarity meant.  If they're going to use that classic story, at least use a few more elements as Easter Eggs.  Getting his house burned down?  "Rebuilding" a fortune?  Hello, Monte Cristo is still part of his name, isn't it?

Was this supposed to be a Snowing centric?  Because it felt like yet another Regina episode to me.  I do feel that the Regina scene on the docks actually showing remorse after killing the Count was good, because, well, she actually showed remorse.  But I'm getting really bored of episodes where only she gets to have an epiphany, while everyone else serves the story in dull, functional ways.  Snowing gets zero development in this episode... targets in the flashback, targets in the present-day, throw in a "Don't worry Regina, it's not your fault".  

Snow AND Emma sitting at a booth making Regina feel better at the same time.  This show just gets better and better.

I still don't get how anyone, much less Henry, can control when the Untold people's story will play out.  So they need to take turns?  The Count got first place and everyone will be in sequential order?  And if all the stories will just play out the way they're supposed to (eg. Charlotte always would die because going to the Land of Untold Stories was what stopped her death temporarily), then why would ANY of them want their stories to play out, and how would it help (as suggested by Henry) to find out why they ran from their stories?  How are these "sequels" if the ultimate ending is the same?  Shouldn't they work on just getting all these people back to the Land of Untold Stories?  You know, repair the Dirigible and send them all back with the fifth last magical bean or maybe the Apprentice's wand, or maybe those silver slippers or maybe etc. etc. etc.

The "stories not playing out" concept is so ill-defined.  Now it also includes stories they didn't know about being revealed, in David's case?  And Emma's future visions is another "story not yet played out"?  Why didn't the Eggbaby napping wait until now to be "played out"?  None of it makes any sense.

Are they going to show how the Evil Queen got into Storybrooke eventually, or are we supposed to buy that simply using everything in the Dragon's shop did the trick?

I had to roll my eyes when the Land of Untold Stories people clapped at Regina's speech at the beginning.  Why did it have to be her who delivered it again?  Wouldn't they trust Snow more?

Belle actually gets some good scenes away from Rumple.  I just wish we don't all know it's inevitable she'll go back to The Loser.

I know on paper, Emma's counselling sessions with Archie should be good, but I feel like I've heard this whole spiel before.  Maybe if she WERE helping, The Count wouldn't be dead?  But oh right, I forgot Shaky Hands That Is So Easy To Hide With a "I'm Okay!  Really!"

If The Evil Queen stole that dumb coin last episode, Rumple would still be away.  If the Evil Queen knew that secret, wouldn't Regina know too?

Oooh, a little grain of darkness is in Regina!  It might make her full out evil!  Doesn't this remind anyone of Season 5 Episode 2 where Emma used Dark One magic to save Robin and she liked it so that darkness might spread and be the start of her becoming fully Dark? New season, "new" ideas, eh?

So people can "fight it" even if someone else has their heart?  Really?

I still don't buy The Evil Queen even wanting to cozy up to Zelena.  Oooh future blow-up when Regina finds out Zelena helped The Evil Queen.  Who the hell cares.

I'm not excited about the rest of the season at all.  It just looks like another version of"Secrets and Lies".  Secrets and lies will tear them apart because of all the misunderstandings that occur and all the "betrayal" when the lies are revealed, no doubt.  It feels too contrived for me to get lost in the plot, and depressing as hell to boot.  The episode title is really appropriate because I feel like I've taken a very bitter draught.

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It was ok. I hope the other new characters involve more of their actual stories than "Hey this week's plot device also happens to be [Famous Fictional Character]"

Good

  • I like that Archie is back because if only because if Emma is going to be stubborn and self-contained, at least it lets the audience in on her thought process a little instead of just having her close up for episodes at a time
  • I like the Evil Queen and her crazy outfits, glad to have her back
  • The outfits in the Count flashbacks were all great too
  • "Do you really want to hear about every time I tried to kill you?" "Yes!"

Bad

  • Henry
  • That weird smock blouse thing Emma was wearing
  • The return of Snow's wig
  • Yeah, I'm sure the sleeping accommodations on the ancient pirate ship are much nicer than at Granny's
  • More clunky dialogue this week than usual, no?

Not even sure

I'm very confused by the Land of Untold Stories. Isn't the conceit of the show that fairytale/fictional character don't realize they're characters with specific stories? My assumption was they went to that world to escape their lives, but not that they realized they had some pre-ordained narrative that required escaping. So wouldn't they have just been super confused by the story book and everything Regina and Henry were prattling about? 

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