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S13.E01: Undo

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Oh my, this episode was so disappointing on all fronts.

Except the cuteness of Japril baby.

The best thing was Nathan saying Omelia´s happiness won´t last. I had to laugh, so true.

The only scene I kind of liked was Jo/Deluca scene.

Edited by Nobodysfan
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47 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Yes to the two posters above. One, Jo was laughing when DeLuca fell on her. And the second point, Alex could have punched once or twice. Like I said in my earlier post, the fact that the show made it go this far is going to be a problem for me to get past, when like we all suspected, Alex won't get in trouble. DeLuca will have a change of heart. The way the show has made it sound though is that DeLuca is probably never going to be a doctor again- or at least not the way he wants to be a doctor again. Either way, the show didn't have to make it go this far. DeLuca could have gotten punched twice and still be considering pressing charges, but his injuries didn't have to be so extreme that his career is over. How does the show think Alex is going to bounce back that, character wise? 

And I'll say it again, I really hate that Alex and Mer's first instinct was to think DeLuca was taking advantage of Jo. And I also hate that when Edwards was trying to explain what happened, Mer was steadfastly trying to justify why Alex beat DeLuca. Shut Up Meredith. And shut up Alex too. 

I do think the whole thing was OTT, and I hate when they make characters do extreme things for the sake of drama that has a predictable ending. This is a show about surgeons so DeLuca's injuries won't cost him his career and Alex won't go to jail.  Alex is my favorite, and I don't like that they went this far, but it is what it is. Character wise, my hope is that they explore his anger issues. It's been a part of his character from the start but after this, no more having his anger flare up here and there and then have him go two seasons being a well-adjusted grown up that listens to everybody's problems. It will always be a character trait, but I think it would be interesting to see Alex in anger management/counseling. I would like to see the fallout not get glossed over as they move on to something else or everything magically be okay when aliens invade or a volcano erupts or zombies take over the hospital.

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36 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

He wouldn't know that. So I'm positing that his first kneejerk assumption to seeing them in that position would have been that they were fooling around, and later, after he realized Jo was stinking drunk, decided that DeLuca was actually trying to take advantage of her. But neither of those theories, really, make any sense given what they all by now must know of DeLuca as a person. He wouldn't do either of these things. Alex just didn't think.

This. It bothers that they have known DeLuca for a least a year and both were quick to jump on assumptions that he would take advantage of a person in any state. DeLuca has never shown he would do this type of thing. It bothers me a lot. And I know, I hate that Jo can't talk or something because otherwise why did Alex go that far without her saying anything to stop it? But I think maybe Alex just started hitting and wasn't even hearing anything Jo said. He saw red and that was it. It's kind of ironic, his speech to Jo about not being able to help how she is as a adult because "it's who she is" can kind of be referenced back to him in a way, I guess. 

I'm just so really more upset about this situation, the more I think about it. I know for a fact that I'm not going to come out of this storyline liking Alex anymore- thanks for that, show!- and I'm just sad about DeLuca.  

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2 hours ago, Court said:

When did Jo tell Weber? I know she told Steph but she told Weber she was drunk and didn't remember anything. 

He asked her if DeLuca hurt her, she looked surprised at the question and then vehemently told him no and that it wasn't DeLuca's fault.  At that point, I don't know that Jo actually understood why Alex barged in and starting assaulting DeLuca, so it makes sense to me that she didn't start setting him straight because he was being a psycho and there was no setting him straight.  She could have thought it was straight up jealousy, not to mention she was still very drunk. 

I am glad that Alex is in jail, I"m glad that he will face some consequences, but lets be honest about what show we're watching.  DeLuca is back at the hospital in the very next episode in scrubs. His medical career didn't get ruined, and he, like Meredith, Burke, Callie, Sofia, all the shooting victims, and Arizona's leg, will be just fine.  In the meantime, he has every right to press charges and I hope he does.  But considering Alex is one of the only reasons I watch this dumb show, I am ok with the fact that he isn't going lose his medical license and rot in prison for the rest of the show's run.  He has always had this in him, he admitted that he would have probably killed Jason if he had gotten to him first and burst through the door last season to announce that he was going to kill Thorpe because he thought he hurt Meredith (of course, I remember lots of people just loving that.)  So he will get anger management or counseling or something and hopefully a lot of screentime to go along with it.  Personally, I would rather watch this drama unfold than to watch him ferry the gals around in the car and listen to them talking about Lady Business.  This show doesn't seem to do Happy Mediums,  so I am here for all of it.

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58 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

He wouldn't know that. So I'm positing that his first kneejerk assumption to seeing them in that position would have been that they were fooling around, and later, after he realized Jo was stinking drunk, decided that DeLuca was actually trying to take advantage of her. But neither of those theories, really, make any sense given what they all by now must know of DeLuca as a person. He wouldn't do either of these things. Alex just didn't think.

I think Alex was jealous when he saw them on the bed and wanted to beat up De Lucca only for that reason.  Yes, he didn't think; he just acted.  But all he was acting on was his jealous rage at Jo's giggling and the sight of them on the bed.  Good thing he didn't have Jo's gun handy in that moment.

Edited by izabella
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The premiere was OK. I don't think these actors are quite good enough to pull off this storyline, but I give them credit for trying.

I wanted to like Jo in this story, but she absolutely lost me at the last DeLuca scene. The man has been beaten to within an inch of his life, and she stops by to make sure he doesn't tell her secret. Stuff like that is why I absolutely can't with Jo. That's like...toddler-level selfishness, before one learns what selfishness is. "Oh, I know you're in a great deal of pain and almost blind, but really, the most important thing right now is ME." I'm irritated at Jo, but I'm even more irritated with the writers. You're supposed to be building a story to get me to like this character, and you make her pull this kind of crap? Ugh.

However, when Alex came into the room and DeLuca freaked out -- that's the kind of high-intensity drama that I think Grey's does well. It was such a sudden and violent reaction, but it rang really true, to me.

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7 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

The color scheme in his hoodie gives the whole thing a definite Freddy Krueger vibe. In fact I wonder if he wore that on purpose, lol.

I kind of hope he did. 

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2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Like I said in my earlier post, the fact that the show made it go this far is going to be a problem for me to get past, when like we all suspected, Alex won't get in trouble. 

This is the bottom line. They have simply gone too far. There were other ways to make it all happen - for example, Alex could have knocked DeLuca out and then he falls and smashes his head against the table or something and gets injured. Sure, it would be soapy as hell, too, but it's also something that might just really happen. That way, Alex does something bad and wrong, but the consequences are much more serious than what he has intended and he has to deal with them. Actually intending to smash his brains out pushes everything beyond repair, as far as I'm concerned. Also, the fact that Alex would actually feel the urge to even physically attack DeLuca in any way over what (in the worst case scenario!) seems like a case of consensual sex should make for a compelling enough story, except that it would require some actual good writing instead of blood, CPR, mortal danger and ZOMG!!!!1 drama. 

Like I said, this is every bit as bad the LVAD wire. And they could cover that one up by the supposed love story for the ages and the tragic discrepancy between Izzie's intentions and their outcome. I really don't know how they're going to make this one work. 

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24 minutes ago, Joana said:

There were other ways to make it all happen - for example, Alex could have knocked DeLuca out and then he falls and smashes his head against the table or something and gets injured. Sure, it would be soapy as hell, too, but it's also something that might just really happen. That way, Alex does something bad and wrong, but the consequences are much more serious than what he has intended and he has to deal with them.

This is exactly the type of scenario I was coming here to post as being a better writing option. Alex can still have anger management/impulsive violence issues, but not in a way that makes him so glaringly irredeemable. That beat down went beyond "aggravated assault" all the way to "attempted murder."

I never thought I'd find myself saying this, but I loved April in this episode. OK, her "the Kepner name means..." speech went a tad long, but I like how she stood up to Catherine being so overbearing without resorting to hysterics. I liked her messing with Catherine a little about the baby's last name. Catherine bugs the bejeesus out of me with her assumptions and pretensions, so April put her in her place nicely. Also, Harriett is a perfectly good name, and the book really was good.

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8 minutes ago, St. Claire said:

There were other ways to make it all happen - for example, Alex could have knocked DeLuca out and then he falls and smashes his head against the table or something and gets injured. Sure, it would be soapy as hell, too, but it's also something that might just really happen. That way, Alex does something bad and wrong, but the consequences are much more serious than what he has intended and he has to deal with them.

That's the exact story line they used when Jo beat up Chest Peckwell and sent him to the ER - which was completely swept under the rug never to be mentioned again, not even by Jo, and not even NOW.

Jo and Alex - two violent peas in a pod.  If only they didn't inflict their violence on other people.  How many more people will they beat up and send to the ER ?

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5 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

This. Which is why, like I said upthread, I was surprised when Alex arrived at the hospital with DeLuca still believing that he had walked in on him trying to hook up with Jo. How would that have not been cleared up before they even left the apartment with the paramedics? What the hell was Jo doing when Alex was beating DeLuca up, when he finally stopped beating him, when he or she called 911, when they were still around waiting for the ambulance? How, during all of this intervening time, did the truth not come out of her mouth?

I'm not a fan of Jo at all, in fact I really wish she would leave and never return. However, when we saw her after she called Meredith, she was hysterical and in shock. She couldn't even stop crying. When Meredith tried to ask her what happened, Richard pointed out that it wasn't the time. There was no way they could get anything coherent out of her so I'm pretty sure she wasn't able to clear up anything with Alex during that time. That's a very real emotional state. Some people really do go into shock and are unable to communicate.

2 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

He wouldn't know that. So I'm positing that his first kneejerk assumption to seeing them in that position would have been that they were fooling around, and later, after he realized Jo was stinking drunk, decided that DeLuca was actually trying to take advantage of her. But neither of those theories, really, make any sense given what they all by now must know of DeLuca as a person. He wouldn't do either of these things. Alex just didn't think.

Also, while I'm mostly just apathetic towards DeLuca, I don't think we know him well enough to say "He wouldn't do that". There are serial killers out there who's friends and families and loved ones would've sworn they'd never do that... Suburban dads that had kids locked in the basement... We can never say with certainty that someone WON'T do something. I will give you guys this though.... there was no way Alex would know that Jo was drunk and being taken advantage of. That was overlooked by the writers.

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1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

The premiere was OK. I don't think these actors are quite good enough to pull off this storyline, but I give them credit for trying.

I wanted to like Jo in this story, but she absolutely lost me at the last DeLuca scene. The man has been beaten to within an inch of his life, and she stops by to make sure he doesn't tell her secret. Stuff like that is why I absolutely can't with Jo. That's like...toddler-level selfishness, before one learns what selfishness is. "Oh, I know you're in a great deal of pain and almost blind, but really, the most important thing right now is ME." I'm irritated at Jo, but I'm even more irritated with the writers. You're supposed to be building a story to get me to like this character, and you make her pull this kind of crap? Ugh.

However, when Alex came into the room and DeLuca freaked out -- that's the kind of high-intensity drama that I think Grey's does well. It was such a sudden and violent reaction, but it rang really true, to me.

I can only agree.

But I dare to hope she was interested in how he was doing, but you are right, it came out she was selfish.

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Jo did ask how he was doing and when DeLucas concern was only for her and that Alex may have hurt her she never should have been like, "did you tell anyone?" Like not only was it selfish but also  ridiculously stupid. Like no offense Jo your secret isn't that important, compared to you know DeLuca now dealing with a truffle of injuries, but whatever. 

And yes this storyline doesn't make Jo look good at all. She's annoying. 

I dont care about Maggie/Riggs/Mer I just don't. 

Edited by WhosThatGirl
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I just got the chance to watch this and I haven't yet read the thread so I apologize if this is all repetitive.

Overall, I thought it was an okay episode.  It didn't feel like a season premiere, but whatever.  

I'm just not able to get too involved in the Jolex relationship.  I've only ever been lukewarm about them, so I really don't care where they go from here.  I'm far more interested in what happens to Alex as a result of the beating.  Also, it seemed like Jo had aged about 10 years over the summer....

I loved and hated at the same time the Catherine/April scenes.  I think they were well-written and performed--but, damn, Catherine was pulling the same crap my mother in law would pull!  I guess that is a credit for the show--that it was so realistic (for someone who went through a similar situation), but I really didn't enjoy watching it.  Let's just say in this granny battle, I'm all TeamApril....

I do think we're going to get a sort of RomCom thing going with Jackson and April, which I'm surprisingly okay with.  There is some heavy stuff going on this season and I think that something lighter might give this show some of the balance it has been missing in the last few seasons.  Of course, I'll admit that I'm a fan of this couple, so I'd like at least some smooth sailing for them.

So, here is what I didn't get...why was everyone (well, Maggie and Bailey) acting like Meredith had committed this huge betrayal about not telling them about Alex?  It looks like this episode took place over just several hours during the night and, for most of that, Meredith herself was trying to figure out what was going on.  If this had been stretched over days and there had been a substantial period of time where Meredith knew what was going on and was actively trying to hide it, I could see that.  But when Maggie asked her about it, Meredith only knew the barest details about what happened.

But, ultimately, Meredith pissed me off--don't give your sister a big speech about how she can have absolute trust in you when you turn around and lie to her (and withhold the fact that you slept with her crush) in a matter of minutes.  I'm really not that interested in sister drama, so I'm hoping that this doesn't drag on and on and on....

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Okay, first, when I hear "He was on top of her," I assume that's an allusion to fucking-- and in a certain context, rape.  Not that two fully dressed people are laughing like crazy loons and in an awkward position hanging partly off the bed. 

 

Alex leaps at warp speed to the wrong conclusion, loses control and beats DeLuca senseless.  Then Alex blows a fuse and can't let Jo finish what she wants to say.  THEN, with Meredith, Alex PUNCHES A CONCRETE WALL.   Really, Alex?  Really, show????

I hate this.  I've been waiting years--since the job offer from the private practice guy with the pen and the yacht club membership--for Alex to lock in as a world-class neonatal surgeon.  He couldn't be arrested in service to some sick, abused baby patient that would have died without his intervention?  How is this Alex any different from Alex a decade ago?  They could have done this exact same story with Alex and Izzie or Alex and, yeesh, Ava.

 

Frankly, the writing isn't any better for Meredith, who's now dug herself into a crater so as to avoid one awkward 30 second conversation with her sister.   I didn't want to tell my post-Derek business and now, if I do, Maggie will be embarrassed.  I'll just inexplicably withdraw and that will guarantee this guy will go for Maggie and return her affections. (I am, after all, the sun around here.)  Ooh, but he really turns me on.  Damn, but I made her that promise-slash-lie.  But . . . so sexy. . .  

 

Has Maggie always been a stammering 12-year old at her first boy-girl party?

 

Catherine, you're a passive-aggressive monster, cooing and bouncing while April lies there, all hacked up and clearly aching for her baby.  Nestle that newborn in next to her mother and step off.  Step away from the baby!

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To be fair, Jo's pants were unbuttoned and pushed down because she was undressing herself. Deluca wanted her to keep her clothes on.

I believe Alex really thought Jo was in danger. That doesn't excuse it but I get why he would have viewed it the way he did. Different people would perceive it differently depending on who walked in.

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2 hours ago, Court said:

To be fair, Jo's pants were unbuttoned and pushed down because she was undressing herself. Deluca wanted her to keep her clothes on.

I believe Alex really thought Jo was in danger. That doesn't excuse it but I get why he would have viewed it the way he did. Different people would perceive it differently depending on who walked in.

When Alex walked in Deluca stood up and started saying it wasn't what it looked like. So even if he was trying to take advantage of Jo, he stopped what he was doing when Alex walked in. Jo was no longer in any danger immediate danger. Alex might have believed that, but his reaction was still way over the top. And I love Alex, I really do. But that behavior was so awful.

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 9:09 PM, doram said:

What do you mean? Harriet is a beautiful name. 

I'm so happy that April and Catherine seem to have buried their differences. Let bygones be bygones, I say!

I hate that Catherine got away with her manipulations.  She lured April into confiding in her, and she was so tender and understanding, I almost teared up while watching.  Then Catherine beelined to Jackson - it was all a trap.  If Catherine had her way, April would have lost that baby the moment it was born.

23 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

The situations aren't really the same though (and Alex's first instinct was to lie and then to run.)  He would have been running away from a crime that he just committed.  Besides feeling guilty for a situation that wasn't her fault (and whatever you think of Jo, the DeLuca mess is ALL on Alex), she has one semi-friend at the hospital, just lost her (sometimes) professional mentor, has absolutely no familial support and basically just got called a slut who is incapable of love or commitment by her boyfriend.  I mean, I would probably peace out of that hellhole myself.  I'm not defending Jo about keeping her secret about her husband (although I don't think she is playing games or being malicious about it either), but I don't think its fair to lay all of this at her feet.   Alex, being a grown man, should know better than to beat the shit out of someone without bothering to get all the facts. 

But Alex's first instinct wasn't to lie and then run.  His first instinct was to call 911 and ride along in the ambulance.  He was obviously concerned about DeLuca, even when he still assumed Jo had been attacked.  It doesn't excuse that Alex attacked him to start with, but Alex didn't run.  He lied by omission, and then finally turned himself in.

13 hours ago, fountain said:

I was glad that by the end of the episode the truth was known and Alex was taken into custody.  Who knows in tv land if he will serve time but I hope he gets real therapy as he has too much anger. Personally, I have always found Alex scary.  I know he is a tv character but I have always had a pit in my stomach anytime his coworkers, friends or girlfriends (sometimes even patients) had to tell him something bad as he seemed like a time bomb.  In recent years, this feeling relaxed some as Alex seemed to start to take bad news without blowing up but now he goes way over the top and adults Deluca.  I will be disappointed if Jo goes back with Alex after witnessing his blind rage, she always seemed a little afraid of Alex so I this confirms to her how violent he can be.

Maggie is just so self-absorbed.  It does no good for Mer to spread what she knew as then more people just have the ethical dilemma of tell/not tell.  The way that Bailey took what her husband had suspicions about was the mature way to realize that adults need time to process the dilemma before they act.  Maggie was acting like she was Deluca's spouse and somehow personally hurt by Deluca being injured was too much.  There didn't seem to be much real concern for him.

I've never thought Jo acted afraid of Alex.  Jo almost beat her boyfriend to death a few seasons ago.  And when people assumed Alex did it, she was slow to correct them.  I think Alex was protecting her by letting people assume he did it.  They flirted with Jo having an anger/violence issue, but then dropped it.

Maggie is a little self-absorbed, but her problem is she still doesn't understand that Meredith cherishes her friends the way most cherish family.  Maggie thinks their blood connection is magical, and bounces her to the top of Meredith's list.  Meredith learned at a young age that family is unpredictable, undependable, and even completely absent.  She learned to love Lexi, and she has learned to care for Maggie, but neither of those could ever hold a candle to her relationship with Cristina.  And after Cristina, Alex is her oldest and dearest friend. 

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The problem is, the show keeps giving Meredith sisters and the only real blood line sister she was ever close to was Lexie. The show hardly acknowledges Lexie in memory, and I wish they would because when this show keeps giving her sisters-or sisters in law, i.e Amelia- but never letting Mer explain why she can't really forge a sister bond. She did once. And look how that turned out. I really truly believe that aside from her friendship with Christina, Lexie was the only blood sister she would consider a sister in that sense. Does Maggie even know about Lexie?

Also, Meredith's kids are, I guess at 24-7 daycare all the time. We will probably never see them this season.

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Here is the thing though. In a good chunk of rape statistics women are raped, molested or sexually assaulted by people that they know. So it doesn't matter if DeLuca ever showed that side or anything people can and do go there. Same with "it's not what it looks like" - I mean in so many shows people say that when they're actually doing something wrong (ie: caught in a middle of an affair or what not). yes. DeLuca was/is innocent of everything here, but again I don't blame Alex for thinking the worse, especially if Jo was totally loaded. 

I think that's why how the ultimately turned out was important. 
Alex did feel guilty afterwards (I don't think he meant to do that much damage). 
Alex asked the pertinent questions (ie: are we sure, is she covering)
Alex finds out the truth, and instead of running and maintaining the lie, he takes responsibility for his stupidity. 

but i am with you. why couldn't it have been one well aimed punch + head hit something (and why the hell didn't deLuca fight back, like wha?)

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Haven't watched regularly until last season's finale. I come back for the opener and it's the same bullcrap childishness as when I left two years ago. Still the misunderstandings that could have been so easily resolved if someone had just said YO, y'all step back and shut up and explain in order starting with you. I cannot stand Maggie: what does it possibly have to do with her special wittle self if Mer didn't tell her about Alex the first of all? Petulant little cow. I don't even know where she came from. How many half sisters does Meredith have, for pete's sake. Alex: yeah, you should really keep a lid on it there, kiddo, or no mother is ever going to trust you again with their sick child. Mer and Riggs: who cares, really. Jo is THE most annoying character I've seen on any show in a long time and someone should just grab her and shake the truth out of her except I really don't give a crap by now. April vs. Catherine was great, though. I wish to God there was something else to watch in that time slot. I am going back to watching Blu-Ray "Game of Thrones" and fuck this noise. My blood pressure is at stake.

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On 9/22/2016 at 9:06 PM, Chicken Wing said:

The whole "Will Alex turn himself in/Will Meredith turn Alex in?" nonsense might have been a bit easier to take seriously if there'd been any point to either of them trying to keep the whole thing a secret, but since DeLuca would obviously say it was him as soon as he woke up it was kind of a stupid thing for them to fuss about.

Exactly.  As soon as I saw Meredith cooking up lies to cover for Alex, I said "sooo, are they planning to kill DeLuca?"  Maybe disconnect some wires or something, because otherwise whats the point in lying?

On 9/22/2016 at 9:25 PM, Ohwell said:

So Deluca got beat within an inch of his life, through no fault of his own, and the sympathies seem to be with Alex and Jo.  I'm done.

This!  I'm seeing a lot of "well other characters have done terrible things and been forgiven so let's do the same for Alex".  No, fuck Alex.  Out of 13 seasons I've probably only liked him for 3.  He's a douche who has always been mad at the world because of his rough childhood and has taken it out on anyone who was in his line of sight.  I had to laugh at him playing psychologist with Jo when they finally met up at the hospital, telling her it's not her fault, it's the way she was raised and its easy for her to throw people away or whatever.  Like dude, how about you get YOUR issues straightened out before you go around doling out life advice to people who didn't even ask for it. Asshole.

On 9/22/2016 at 11:43 PM, Emily Thrace said:

I don't think he'll actually go to jail. He's white its his first offense (unless he has another old charge that we've never been told about) and most importantly he thought Jo was being attacked. Honestly once he says that the DA will be trying to cut a deal. Can you see a jury convicting the hero peds surgeon who thought he was protecting his girlfriend? 

My first question as a prosecutor would be, "if you thought you were protecting your girlfriend, why did it take you X amount of time to go talk to the police?"  And assuming the police investigated the matter thoroughly and spoke to the other doctors about Karev's demeanor that night (and his overall personality and whatever else they might ask)....another question would be why did he tell Ben that the injuries to his hand were sustained in a fall? (I highly doubt Ben would lie to the cops for Karev, considering they're not that close and Ben just came off of being in his own messy situation.)

On 9/23/2016 at 5:02 AM, carouselride said:

Maggie is probably the most self-centered person in that show. And it wasn't an easy task to win that title!

Oh, how soon we forget Callie and Amelia. Lmaoo.  Maggie is at worst 3rd on the list. And thats if we're only counting people who are still alive.  On the ALL-TIME self-centered list, Maggie doesn't even crack top 5.

I'm not even sure why Maggie is getting so much flack.  I saw the comments here before watching the episode and assumed Maggie had flown into a rage in the middle of the hospital as everything was going down.  Imagine my surprise when the conversation occurred at home and it was Meredith who approached Maggie.  They had a pretty calm discussion....no yelling or irrational thoughts. Maggie was simply expressing her feelings and how she felt hurt by Meredith lying.  And clearly (surprisingly) Meredith knew she was wrong and apologized. Said she wouldnt do it again (even though she did like 5 minutes later...but whatever.).   I actually liked the scene with Meredith and Maggie...it was very adult of both of them.

13 hours ago, Joana said:

This is the bottom line. They have simply gone too far. There were other ways to make it all happen - for example, Alex could have knocked DeLuca out and then he falls and smashes his head against the table or something and gets injured. Sure, it would be soapy as hell, too, but it's also something that might just really happen.

It's not soapy at all.  There are dozens of real life cases where people have died from being punched only once.  One documentary I saw was about a high school kid who got into a fight. He punched another kid and the boy fell to the ground.  He hit his head so hard on the concrete the medical examiner assumed the boy had taken blows to the head from a baseball bat or something similar.  So had the writers gone this route, it would have actually been very realistic.

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I thought the episode was very good. I liked that they focused on Alex's story. At the same time, I was a little disappointed not to see more of Jackson and April. I wanted to see a cute baby-naming scene or just a little something of the two of them and their baby. From the preview pictures, it looked like their would be something - this scene must have been cut. That being said, the episode had great momentum and would have lost some of the dramatic thrust in telling Alex's story if the focus were diverted away too much. Debbie Allen is a very talented director and actress. I did enjoy her scenes with April. They were a nice, light counterpoint to the main drama.

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5 hours ago, FuriousStyles said:

Exactly.  As soon as I saw Meredith cooking up lies to cover for Alex, I said "sooo, are they planning to kill DeLuca?"  Maybe disconnect some wires or something, because otherwise whats the point in lying?

That wouldn't have surprised me at all.  Actually, I was expecting Saint Meredith to sneak in Deluca's room and disconnect some wires. 

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On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 10:36 PM, Rose-1 said:

Wow. That was far better than I was expecting. God I felt so bad this episode, for nearly everyone. 

 

Alex and Jo, oh my word, we wished for storylines, we wished for drama - we sure are getting it. I'm so heartbroken for them, both of them. Poor Jo, she was just in hell all episode. Im very glad she had Webber to lean on, I hope they continue that relationship as he is perfect for her right now. Poor girl, she really has no one :(. That jolex scene killed me, I was screaming at her to defend herself but she's so guilt ridden (unjustly so) and believes she's worthless so it's pretty in character for her to just take what Alex is throwing at her. I hope she finds her voice soon, and I actually think she will.

 

im glad they didn't drag out the 'did Jo sleep with deluca' too long that would've been painful. Oh Alex, Justin chambers was amazing tonight! I felt awful for him, he's so hurt and I just want them to work it out! Meredith was also great tonight which was a pleasant surprise. I felt her inner torment a lot as well.

 

lol Maggie can just STFU as far as I'm concerned, how she managed to turn deluca getting beaten up into a self righteous rant to Meredith and make it about HER blows my mind. God I can't stand her. So intrigued for next week!! And once this trial mess is over I'm sure they'll dive more into Alex/Jo. Also the triangle, Maggie really isn't doing herself any favour in my opinion of her, god it's so childish!! I like Meredith and Riggs and I hope he keeps fighting for her!

She has been lying to him-- for years. She's a lying liar who lies. Everyday she stayed with Alex, everyday she lied and let him believe she was his to love--- she betrayed him. Their entire relationship is built upon a lie.

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On ‎9‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 11:20 AM, windsprints said:

Must be part of the Ellis Grey genes that get passed down.

I'm not thrilled that I character I love did something horrible and will likely be run to the ground before being redeemed but I can't help but to be glad that Justin is finally getting a chance to have a big story. I'm totally on board. There will be tropes and plot holes for sure since those are there for probably 85% of Grey's storylines, lol. I also know the outcome is predictable (also typical for Grey's) but I'm going to do my best to enjoy the story since I've waited since at least S10 for Alex to have something big. My hope is that we will see some great scenes with the characters interacting. That's always been Grey's strength IMO and I think there's a lot of potential for this since this story can bring all the characters into it somewhat.

I don't think a bar-brawl type fight could have launched a big storyline that includes so many characters. There would be no court case (its in the promo) or Alex's medical license being in jeopardy because it would be a misdemeanor (if that) and not a felony charge. It would also be totally laughable for half of the characters to have any say about it at all given the history at the hospital. Examples: Derek fought Mark twice at the hospital with the COS asking him if he put his weight behind his punch the first time. Maggie punched a patient's family and got a high-five. Alex fought his brother, punched his father and was beating Shane in the face until he was pulled off him. Jackson punched Alex, shoved him through a coffee table then continued punching him in the face until he was pulled off. That's off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more. So, punching someone in the face never had much of a reaction or consequence before. It had to be something more IMO.

As for Jo not telling anyone what happened - she was drunk to the point of nearly passing out and given her background (I can also understand how it would give her the initial reaction to run) I'd say likely in shock . The ambulance (should have) arrived within minutes and Alex went with DeLuca.  Jo told Stephanie at the hospital.  I guess only Mary Sue Grey gets a never ending pass on her behavior due to her shitty childhood for twelve years,lol.  

Mere wasn't married to another man while living with a different man and and telling that man that she loved him.

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Mere wasn't married to another man while living with a different man and and telling that man that she loved him.

Jo is guilty of omitting the truth from Alex yes but that's where it ends. I get not liking her but I don't understand the need to fabricate what she's done. It's not like she was keeping in touch with her ex while with Alex or lying about loving him. 

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1 hour ago, taanja said:

She has been lying to him-- for years. She's a lying liar who lies. Everyday she stayed with Alex, everyday she lied and let him believe she was his to love--- she betrayed him. Their entire relationship is built upon a lie.

I don't think this is true at all.  Her love for him isn't a lie and the person that she is right NOW is the person that Alex fell in love with and vice-versa.  You are right that she lied about having a husband and I"m not defending that, but her reasons for this have not been explored at all yet.  Maybe it will turn out that she was right to keep her secret and maybe it won't, but to say that she is completely lying to Alex about her feelings for him and that it is all fake is just not true to what we have seen.  By that logic, Derek lied to Meredith as well (and would have for who knows how long had Addison not shown up), so is their entire relationship built on a lie?  I don't think that Derek's reasoning was nearly as understandable as Jo's may turn out to be.

My problem with Maggie is that when she wasn't constantly badgering Meredith about DeLuca, then she was doing what she always does which is going on and on and on about her personal life in the operating room, and once again making everything about how it affects her. I understand that she was worried about DeLuca, but that lasted for one second until really what she was worried about was the fact that Riggs might think that *gasp* she liked DeLuca, like you know high school like-like.  Then she gives Meredith grief about sisterhood, etc., never once gleaning that maybe Meredith was going through something that really had nothing to do with Maggie.  Did she really want Meredith to pull her aside and say, "hey Maggie, my best friend, who I have known for nearly a decade, has put himself in a stupid and unforgivable situation.  He will likely go to jail and never practice medicine again, and DeLuca may not either. I'm trying to get him to turn himself into the cops, or else I have to do it, and right now we are in a panic and are trying to figure stuff out.  I haven't told Bailey yet, and no one really knows, but because you have been my sister for 18 months, you absolutely DESERVE to know the truth before anyone else so, yeah, it was Alex, keep it to yourself."  If this was a one time quirk due to stress, then okay.  But she does this constantly and I just find her completely immature and unappealing.

Edited by Deanie87
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2 hours ago, Ohwell said:

That wouldn't have surprised me at all.  Actually, I was expecting Saint Meredith to sneak in Deluca's room and disconnect some wires. 

Izzie would have been all over that (I'm joking).  

No idea what Meredith has to do with Jo lying to Alex but whatever.

Bringing rest of reply to the Jo thread as not to ramble on here.

Edited by windsprints

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1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

My problem with Maggie is that when she wasn't constantly badgering Meredith about DeLuca, then she was doing what she always does which is going on and on and on about her personal life in the operating room, and once again making everything about how it affects her.

But that personal chatter and making everything about them is a hallmark of the show and has been since its inception.  I think Grey's would only be abut three seasons long so far if every patient wasn't there just so our Docs could make it all about them!

I totally get that Maggie's character can be annoying.  I wince at her sometimes and I genuinely like her.  She's definitely not the kind of person I could ever be, But I also get what SR is trying to do with the character.  Maggie is younger than folks in her job would normally be, a medical wunderkind who was most probably a geek of some sort who was typically asocial.  She doesn't do social cues well.  And she is a A-type personality who is neurotic and trying desperately to fit in with her new found sister.  Kelly McCreary does a good job of making Maggie this person.  I think that one episode S10? coming from Maggie's perspective did a great job of showing her mindset.  But I also think a lot of viewers had a knee jerk reaction to a new character getting so much face time and on top of it she isn't a "cool" character.  So I do get the annoyance factor.

This isn't directed at you @Deanie87, just because I quoted your post -- LOL.  But I personally  think she gets a fair amount of shit on minor things where other characters get a pass on big things, that's all. And even though i can see why she can be eye-roll worthy I can't help but be compelled to defend her.  It helps that I kinda see her as a puppy who just wants approval and acceptance.

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2 hours ago, taanja said:

She has been lying to him-- for years. She's a lying liar who lies. Everyday she stayed with Alex, everyday she lied and let him believe she was his to love--- she betrayed him. Their entire relationship is built upon a lie.

This is such an unfair and biased Assessment. I get not liking her and that's one thing, but you can't say their entire relationship is a lie when she's done nothing but make her love for him extremely obvious. She's been the best girlfriend he's ever had, and made him the happiest he's ever been, and that's real. She should have told him yes, but it's quite clear that she was terrified of her ex and what he could do to her and Alex, and In order to cope with the trauma of that part of her life she obviously has had to block it out to try and move forward. Is that healthy? Of course not, but she  has never had anyone to help her in her life, let alone professional help, to deal with the pain and mental damage of an abusive relationship. And like others have said, we have had little insight into her motives, but what we have seen of her emotional state is that she clearly loves Alex so much, and WANTS to marry him but can't. And we will find out more, but what I can't understand is why Jo gets so much venom and hate from people when others have done SO much worse, and with more questionable reasonings. and when I said it's unjust, she's blaming  HERSELF for delucas situation, when Alex's Actions are his alone. She has left out part of her past, which isn't right, but from what we have seen so far, it's been because she loves Alex and wants to protect them both. 

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2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

This isn't directed at you @Deanie87, just because I quoted your post -- LOL.  But I personally  think she gets a fair amount of shit on minor things where other characters get a pass on big things, that's all. And even though i can see why she can be eye-roll worthy I can't help but be compelled to defend her.  It helps that I kinda see her as a puppy who just wants approval and acceptance.

No worries! And to be fair, the non-stop personal chatter is also why I had a low tolerance for Lexie and Callie.  Every character has their annoyances and to each his own, but this is one that grates on me. You know me, I much prefer those with rage issues who beat people to a pulp with little to no provocation lol!  

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I personally don't feel that I can judge Jo - or any domestic violence victim - for how they choose to flee from their abuser. Her story is fairly ridiculous and retconned, but taking what she told DeLuca at face value, I can see why she would be terrified to tell anyone, including Alex. Maybe especially Alex, with his own history with violence and how he protects those he cares about. I think she was trying to protect him as much or more than herself. I'm not saying that lying to him was loving, or wise, or noble, but I think it was understandable.

As for Maggie, I generally like her, but her drama with Meredith was so manufactured. So Mere didn't immediately go to the police. What did it change? Alex wasn't trying to leave the jurisdiction, destroy evidence, or finish DeLuca off. A couple hours' delay affected nothing, especially not DeLuca's medical care or outcome.

That said, holy shit, Alex. There had better be real consequences, and I hope it includes serious therapy. I know other people on this show have done bad things and gotten slapped on the wrist, but in the cases I can remember, they were all done with good intentions. Alex almost killed a man with his bare hands in a fit of jealous rage. I love Alex, but I can't make excuses for that.

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My biggest issue with Maggie is that she's just not a well written character. Callie used to get on my nerves a lot, but she was at least written consistently and in a way that made her believable - a kind, warm and well-meaning person who's also lacking boundaries and is prone to oversharing. Such people do exist. 

Maggie, on the other hand... I don't know. I think it's a classic example of writers wanting a character to be too many things at the same time - a child prodigy workaholic who's also been around the block and is both shy and socially awkward but also playful and mischievous, she has loving and supporting parents but then acts like she was raised by wolves and never knew the concept of having a family until she met Meredith and her kids... There's something constantly off about her. I can't take her seriously, at least not yet.

I think I compared her to that Bones lady before. She would act like that all the time - one moment she'd display thorough, in-depth understanding of human interaction, the next she'd be all "Uhm, what's this thing called love you all keep talking about?" Nope, doesn't work like that. 

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14 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

No worries! And to be fair, the non-stop personal chatter is also why I had a low tolerance for Lexie and Callie.

I've been watching the old ones on Lifetime Channel.  You're so right.  Callie burbled too much in the beginning, but she matured really fast because she had adversity and confrontation from the minute she married George, which was almost immediately.  Lexie was all wide-eyed and innocent and babbly-Sisters!, but that cleared up pretty fast for the most part, popping out occasionally.

KEPNER, though.  Horrible.  "Oh my gosh, I darted out and got Derek shot!  Oh my gosh, I destroyed the penis transplant!  Oh my gosh, I sent the guy with the lung embolism to have his spleen removed!"  (I'll be fast-forwarding the extended trauma over her virginity.) They spent years turning Kepner into the woman who gritted her teeth for an unsedated C-section.  I still have one eyebrow raised.

I was a major Maggie defender when she showed up.  She had some good backstory to chew on and I thought she'd be filling the Yang "surgical savant" spot.  I meant it seriously when I asked above if she'd always acted like a 12-year old at her first boy-girl party--she seemed to be doing a lot of adolescent tee-hee'ing in this episode.  (Although that could have been nipped in the bud with one line from Meredith:  I had no idea you felt that way, Maggie.  Riggs and I have been . . . releasing some tension together.)

I'm happy to have the show back, but I didn't think this episode was very well-written.

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20 hours ago, Rose-1 said:

This is such an unfair and biased Assessment. I get not liking her and that's one thing, but you can't say their entire relationship is a lie when she's done nothing but make her love for him extremely obvious. She's been the best girlfriend he's ever had, and made him the happiest he's ever been, and that's real. She should have told him yes, but it's quite clear that she was terrified of her ex and what he could do to her and Alex, and In order to cope with the trauma of that part of her life she obviously has had to block it out to try and move forward. Is that healthy? Of course not, but she  has never had anyone to help her in her life, let alone professional help, to deal with the pain and mental damage of an abusive relationship. And like others have said, we have had little insight into her motives, but what we have seen of her emotional state is that she clearly loves Alex so much, and WANTS to marry him but can't. And we will find out more, but what I can't understand is why Jo gets so much venom and hate from people when others have done SO much worse, and with more questionable reasonings. and when I said it's unjust, she's blaming  HERSELF for delucas situation, when Alex's Actions are his alone. She has left out part of her past, which isn't right, but from what we have seen so far, it's been because she loves Alex and wants to protect them both. 

Being the bestest girl friend evah! doesn't negate the fact that their entire relationship is built on a lie. A lie by omission is still a lie. She had many opportunities over the years to tell her "true love" that she was in fact married to someone else. Every time he mentioned marriage--- every time he pulled that damn ring out -- every time they planned/talked about their future together -- Jo lied. It boils down to --- she doesn't/ didn't trust Alex with the truth. Without trust their relationship is a sham.

 

I am thinking that is why Alex went berserk--- he had just found out that his girlfriend has been lying to him for years and then he walks in and sees her with another man. Perfectly understandable

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1 hour ago, taanja said:

Being the bestest girl friend evah! doesn't negate the fact that their entire relationship is built on a lie. A lie by omission is still a lie. She had many opportunities over the years to tell her "true love" that she was in fact married to someone else. Every time he mentioned marriage--- every time he pulled that damn ring out -- every time they planned/talked about their future together -- Jo lied. It boils down to --- she doesn't/ didn't trust Alex with the truth. Without trust their relationship is a sham.

 

I am thinking that is why Alex went berserk--- he had just found out that his girlfriend has been lying to him for years and then he walks in and sees her with another man. Perfectly understandable

I realize that this isn't the case for everyone, but the reason why she lied makes a difference to me.  She isn't doing it to be malicious and she isn't doing it just to lead him on.  She feels like its what she needs to do to survive.  Thankfully, I have no first hand experience with domestic violence so I don't know if it can be similar to Witness Protection or something along those lines.  Maybe she got help from some kind of agency and was told to never, ever reveal her secret, or maybe she is just understandably paranoid and is willing to lie because of it, even if it means losing Alex.  Maybe she feels like knowing Alex the way that she does that telling him would only put both of them in danger, and his reaction to DeLuca supports that, IMO.  Whether all of this is actually true or just her being paranoid doesn't really matter me as much as the fact that SHE honestly believes that this is her only option.  The challenge the writers have now is to tell this story from the point of view of an abuse survivor and make it clear that she was doing what she felt she had to do.  It will be especially tough because they allowed Jo and Alex to completely stagnate for two years and umpteen marriage discussions, however many timejumps, and also because its blatantly obvious that the secret husband was something that Shonda just pulled out of her ass in the last few months and very little thought was given to how all of this was going to work.  I can only hope that they have given it some thought now.  This storyline is just starting and my hope is that Jo's perspective will be given and maybe make the lie more palatable for some and make her story more than just that she is lying bitch who did Alex wrong for nothing more than selfish reasons and kicks.  Obviously it won't work for some people and she will remain nothing more than a lying bitch in their eyes, but I guess we'll see.

Also, Alex doesn't know about the husband yet, so the only reason that he went beserk is because he is a violent guy with anger issues.  It is his fault and his fault alone, and its actually getting kind of tiresome to see how many people blame Jo for Alex's crime.

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Also, Alex doesn't know about the husband yet, so the only reason that he went beserk is because he is a violent guy with anger issues.  It is his fault and his fault alone, and its actually getting kind of tiresome to see how many people blame Jo for Alex's crime.

I think unfortunetly if you don't like a character then no amount of fact will change that. 

I am looking forward to seeing this develop though and that premiere was definetly one of the most exciting openers I've seen in years.

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2 hours ago, taanja said:

Being the bestest girl friend evah! doesn't negate the fact that their entire relationship is built on a lie. A lie by omission is still a lie. She had many opportunities over the years to tell her "true love" that she was in fact married to someone else. Every time he mentioned marriage--- every time he pulled that damn ring out -- every time they planned/talked about their future together -- Jo lied. It boils down to --- she doesn't/ didn't trust Alex with the truth. Without trust their relationship is a sham.

 

I am thinking that is why Alex went berserk--- he had just found out that his girlfriend has been lying to him for years and then he walks in and sees her with another man. Perfectly understandable

Though at this point Alex doesn't know she lied about her past and name. He jumped to the wrong conclusion twice. First, when he thought Deluca was taking advantage of her when she was drunk and then when he thought she brought Deluca back home to sleep with him.

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I know the problem with me with the revelation about Jos's past-- and I do blame the writers to a large extent -- is that it is such a badly done retcon that it just makes her actions so damn dumb.  I can't get over them.  If you go back you don't see a woman who was hesitant to get involved with a new man because of the past hanging over her.  You don't see someone who is constantly shying away from commitment because she is married.  That only came out when she saw the ring in the latter part of S12 when it was obvious they had decided to write this story for her.  Most damning really is the conversation she had with Alex when she found the letter about Izzy's eggs.

"I love you and you love me, but when I look ahead...Am I just the let's get a dog girl?  I am wondering what you think we are, what you want?"

And

"She was worth it to you but when I ask you if you want to have babies, you are all..'Duh... I dunno"

Alex: "She was my wife, we were married!"

Jo: "That's my point, what am I?"

Alex: " She had cancer."

Jo: "So I have to get sick to figure out if you are gonna go all in with me?"

Those are not the words of a woman who already has a husband, those are the words of a woman who wants a life commitment from her boyfriend.  The whole tone of that entire conversation was a woman who wanted more.  And a woman on the run, who is hiding, who is worried about creating a commitment because she is already married would not have had that conversation.

Human nature is such that when you don't like  character on a show you blame the character for their bad actions, but when you do like the character you blame the writers for their bad actions.  I don't like Jo at all, but I do blame the writers.  But all said and done, with what they gave us on screen, she looks like a liar and hypocrite who could have known better about getting involved and making someone fall in love with her.

And on a final note from the writers, I think making her a domestic abuse survivor is a manipulative way to make her instantly sympathetic to make her lies palatable.  It is the same thing they did with Melly on Scandal.

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1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

I realize that this isn't the case for everyone, but the reason why she lied makes a difference to me.  She isn't doing it to be malicious and she isn't doing it just to lead him on.  She feels like its what she needs to do to survive.  Thankfully, I have no first hand experience with domestic violence so I don't know if it can be similar to Witness Protection or something along those lines.  Maybe she got help from some kind of agency and was told to never, ever reveal her secret, or maybe she is just understandably paranoid and is willing to lie because of it, even if it means losing Alex.  Maybe she feels like knowing Alex the way that she does that telling him would only put both of them in danger, and his reaction to DeLuca supports that, IMO.  Whether all of this is actually true or just her being paranoid doesn't really matter me as much as the fact that SHE honestly believes that this is her only option.  The challenge the writers have now is to tell this story from the point of view of an abuse survivor and make it clear that she was doing what she felt she had to do.  It will be especially tough because they allowed Jo and Alex to completely stagnate for two years and umpteen marriage discussions, however many timejumps, and also because its blatantly obvious that the secret husband was something that Shonda just pulled out of her ass in the last few months and very little thought was given to how all of this was going to work.  I can only hope that they have given it some thought now.  This storyline is just starting and my hope is that Jo's perspective will be given and maybe make the lie more palatable for some and make her story more than just that she is lying bitch who did Alex wrong for nothing more than selfish reasons and kicks.  Obviously it won't work for some people and she will remain nothing more than a lying bitch in their eyes, but I guess we'll see.

Also, Alex doesn't know about the husband yet, so the only reason that he went beserk is because he is a violent guy with anger issues.  It is his fault and his fault alone, and its actually getting kind of tiresome to see how many people blame Jo for Alex's crime.

We don't yet know what Jo's abusive husband was like in reality or to her at the time. There are cases where violent boyfriends or husbands have murdered their victims after the woman has left them or after the woman has gotten a restraining order. We don't know how long Jo was married and suffered abuse, if the husband threatened to kill her if she left him or if he threatened to kill anyone else she got involved with. We don't know if Jo had a subsequent boyfriend that he beat up. All we know is Jo was afraid of him enough to change her identity and keep this secret and that she doesn't believe that Alex could protect her.

I thought the first episode was really good - the acting and writing. I agree with you that I just hope they portray it sympathetically to Alex and Jo. As long as Jo believes her fears for herself and Alex are justified and the writing and acting are both good, I'll like watching this story.

I don't know if originally Jo's backstory included an abusive ex and her being in hiding, but I have less trouble accepting this than Owen having a long lost sister.

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And on a final note from the writers, I think making her a domestic abuse survivor is a manipulative way to make her instantly sympathetic to make her lies palatable.  It is the same thing they did with Melly on Scandal.

Retcons are constant on this show. Owens sister, Maggies entire existence are based on retcons.

The writers will always manipulate the audience when they want us to see their point of view. Every character gets their moment. 

Realistically a viewer either likes a character or doesn't. The people who like Jo will enjoy her finally having a storyline and see past the retcon of an abusive ex whereas people who don't like her won't see past it and will still find a way to blame her for violent actions.

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1 hour ago, Chas411 said:

Realistically a viewer either likes a character or doesn't. The people who like Jo will enjoy her finally having a storyline and see past the retcon of an abusive ex whereas people who don't like her won't see past it and will still find a way to blame her for violent actions.

Well, I do like Jo and yet such blatant retcon is making it really difficult for me to get on board with this storyline. Had there been at least a hint of a troubled woman who had to change her identity in order to get away from an abusive husband in her former actions, it would all be so much easier to take and go along with it. But like DearEvette explained above, there simply hadn't been any of that. Not only did this storyline come up completely out of nowehere (like Owen's sister, for example), it also goes against pretty much everything Jo's character stood for and I don't like it one bit. I certainly don't blame Jo for Alex's actions, those are all but him, but I can't help but think she contributed to this whole mess by stringing him along all this time. The situation would have never escalated as much had she simply turned down his marriage proposals earlier. Of course, her reasons for doing that turned out to be much different than what we had been previously told and it's all so contrived.

I'm going to wait and see how it all plays out, but at this point I can't imagine how they can write themselves out of this mess in any reasonable way. Hopefully I end up surprised. 

Edited by Joana
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I agree that the fact that she is already married is completely out of nowhere, but I do think that the signs of her being a victim of abuse have been there all along.  Everything with Peckwell, the way that she barely flinches when Alex yells or throws something and a couple of statement along the way ("I swore that I would never let anyone put a hand on me like that again," etc.)

Of course, there are also examples that would contradict this as well, but as far as she and Alex are concerned, the fact that they were friends for at least a year in show time, and the fact that he pursued him and not vice-versa, make it easier for me to swallow the fact that maybe she didn't expect to get into this kind of relationship or fall in love with someone else and then she did.  She kept her secret, said she didn't want to get married and then the more that time passed the worst it got.  Its also the fact that I have waited YEARS now for them to explore her backstory and for both she and Alex to get any kind of material and any kind of screentime.  So I'm just going to go with it and hope for the best.  If I can deal with Dead Denny, Meredith dying and going to Hospital Purgatory, Intern Fight Club and Cristina getting pregnant time after time, then I can deal with this.

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