Lorelai Gilmore: The 10(+) Things I Hate About You

[FictionLover]

2 hours ago, random chance said:

Hell, you don't even have to look further for her privilege than the pilot episode of the show. She didn't put her daughter through private school by working hard and saving, she did it by agreeing to have dinner once a week with her rich parents. And even that she bitched about.

But it was a loan with strings attached. 

[readster]

How true and something else, having Lorelai brought up in that life style was also probably why Mia gave her promotion from maid and so forth. I highly doubt she wanted a teenage mom and her daughter living in a potting shed instead of giving them something where they could live in an apartment and from what we've seen in Stars Hollow. The apartments were pretty good. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

But it was a loan with strings attached. 

It was, but it wasn't.  I doubt Emily cared if it was ever paid back, and the terms weren't exactly onerous.  If anything, it was kind of pathetic that Emily essentially had to force her kid to spend time with her. 

[chessiegal]

Mia said the other maids hated Lorelai because she worked so much harder than they did ("they were slower" or something to that effect;.) I took that to mean once Lorelai got the job, she worked her butt off to prove herself and most likely deserved any promotion she got.

[Viqutorious]

I think jealous as code for Mia favored Lorelai, not that she worked so hard. How often do you see her slaving away?  The only time I saw it was when they were opening the Inn.

At home she doesn't cook and it is implied that Rory cleans, and Luke does all the repairs and yard work. She doesn't strike me as a person that works herself to the bone.

[random chance]

She doesn't usually even make her own coffee.

[Lady Calypso]

50 minutes ago, CheeseBurgh said:

I think jealous as code for Mia favored Lorelai, not that she worked so hard. How often do you see her slaving away?  The only time I saw it was when they were opening the Inn.

At home she doesn't cook and it is implied that Rory cleans, and Luke does all the repairs and yard work. She doesn't strike me as a person that works herself to the bone.

It's definitely hard to say much when it comes to Lorelai pre-series. The one thing I wish we got more of was Lorelai learning how to be a single mom. We don't even know Mia and Lorelai's detailed relationship, so we can only guess based on the little information that we're given. It could very well be that Mia favoured Lorelai, as she is said to be like a mother-figure to her and Rory, but I also see Lorelai as someone who did work as hard as she could with a new baby. I imagine she didn't want to take any handouts like she had while living with her parents. I'm sure it wasn't easy for Lorelai, but I can't imagine her as someone who only put in half the effort for the work and being rewarded with many promotions. She had to think of Rory in that moment and I believe that she did work as hard as she could with a baby. I highly doubt that Lorelai got to where she is in the series due to handouts or favoritism from Mia. 

We also don't see Lorelai as a working woman nearly as much as we could. But from what we've seen, she's definitely done a great job. She was basically running the Independence Inn on her own without Mia there, and it was a successful little inn. She definitely picked up a lot of useful skills over the 15 years that she worked there. She may not cook or clean or do the regular stuff around the house, but as a business woman, she seemed to do a good job, and that's without a business degree until season 2! 

[Viqutorious]

Who took care of Rory when Lorelai was working so hard? Being a maid is a minimum wage job, no way could she afford childcare full time, was she allowed to take Rory to work with her? Did the other maids have this awesome perk?

What we do know, she lived in the potting shed on the grounds. I can't imagine any of the other maids lived on the grounds rent free or rent reduced. That would alone cause friction rather than jealousy.

I hope you will pardon me but I dislike the term jealousy and I believe it is misused often.

Edited September 26, 2016 by CheeseBurgh
Childcare costs

[junienmomo]

15 hours ago, random chance said:

Hell, you don't even have to look further for her privilege than the pilot episode of the show. She didn't put her daughter through private school by working hard and saving, she did it by agreeing to have dinner once a week with her rich parents. And even that she bitched about.

Yes, and as FictionLover said, it was a loan with strings attached. She took full advantage of the privilege when others in the same position, but without rich parents would have depended on Rory's genius, though debatable, to get her the necessary qualifications in her current high school. Alternatively she could have waited one more year while Lorelai saved up for the school. 

Of course, if she'd been really thinking she would have simply waited until senior year and asked her father to pull strings to get her into a school as a legacy, which would have worked for Yale, but not Harvard.

[random chance]

Now that I think about it, she bought and fixed up Dragonfly Inn with her parents' money too. And when that ran out, Luke's money. Even if it was a loan it was a private loan - no worries about a bank foreclosure if she didn't pay it back in time. So, Rory's education, the termite problem and the Inn were all taken care of without any actual sacrifice on her part, unless you count that brief period of time when she had to buy groceries instead of eating out. (Which in GG world is like living on food stamps.)

[TwirlyGirly]

Has anyone figured out how Lorelai managed to develop her mad sewing skills? I've always wondered about that. Considering how inept she is with every other domestic endeavor, I find it curious she learned such advanced sewing skills (I'm thinking of her restyling Lane's wedding gown specifically, but she's called on to sew many times during the series). As an avid seamstress myself, I know how difficult certain techniques are (and working on wedding gowns is close to the top in terms of difficulty). Her skills in that area seem totally out of character, considering she couldn't even figure out how to properly stir a pot on the stove to prevent what was being cooked from sticking (S5E8 "The Party's Over"). I'm fairly certain she wasn't exposed to sewing growing up, and there wouldn't be a sewing machine at the Independence Inn when she was living there with Rory. Furthermore, no one else in Star's Hollow (AFAIK) was ever mentioned as having sewing skills, so where and how did Lorelai learn? (Lorelai has little patience and gets easily frustrated with learning even simple domestic tasks, that she'd go out on her own, buy a machine, and teach herself seems unlikely).

[Aloeonatable]

Maybe she was forced to make Rory's clothes at an early age because she couldn't afford to buy clothes for a growing girl. Necessity is the mother of invention. It also gave her something to do when she wasn't working at the Inn. 

[scarynikki12]

My mom made a lot of my clothes when I was little and I'm just a couple years older than Rory.  She stopped when I hit middle school and I once asked her why.  She said it was for two reasons: 1) middle school me started getting more interested in wearing the same kinds of clothes as my classmates (true) and, more importantly for Mom, 2) it stopped being cheaper to make clothes versus buy them.  So, when Rory was little, making her clothes was the frugal option. 

[Lady Calypso]

My grandmother has advanced sewing skills, but my own mother also learned some sewing skills on her own time as a hobby. She didn't keep it up for very long, but she did it enough where she still has those skills if she ever needs it. 

4 hours ago, random chance said:

Now that I think about it, she bought and fixed up Dragonfly Inn with her parents' money too. And when that ran out, Luke's money. Even if it was a loan it was a private loan - no worries about a bank foreclosure if she didn't pay it back in time. So, Rory's education, the termite problem and the Inn were all taken care of without any actual sacrifice on her part, unless you count that brief period of time when she had to buy groceries instead of eating out. (Which in GG world is like living on food stamps.)

This is very true, especially the reluctance to change her own lifestyle besides in season 4. But I think what Lorelai's always done is to try to find other ways and other options before asking for help with financial issues such as this. She's always complained about taking loans and using other people's money because she knows it's a debt she owes them. So, she's very modest and reluctant when it comes to this. It's not like she's asking for handouts left and right. She went to her parents for help with Rory's Chilton education very reluctantly when she knew there was no other option (well, the other option was not sending her), and the termite/inn situation was something she didn't even approach her parents about first. If I remember correctly, Rory was the one to spill the beans and her parents offered/manipulated the situation to stay close to their daughter. And for her, asking for help is a sacrifice to her own self-esteem. 

But I am in full agreement that there should have been more sacrifices on her end in terms of, you know, maybe eating in more or something. 

What I find ridiculous is that in the later seasons, Lorelai's spending money left and right, or she's getting other people to. The house renovations in season 6 were surprising to me because that would have been fairly expensive to do, and I always thought she was tight on money. So unless it was Luke's money or Tom and his workers gave her and Luke some sort of discount (I forget if they ever said), I just find it odd that they decided to expand the house when they just got engaged. But then again, the last two seasons were always off in some form or another. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by Lady Calypso
Tom, not Joe. Whoops!

[random chance]

Sewing clothes for Baby Rory would only have been cheaper if nobody in Stars Hollow ever had a garage sale, but I don't actually expect ASP to know that.

[shron17]

16 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

If anything, it was kind of pathetic that Emily essentially had to force her kid to spend time with her. 

Emily forced her to come to dinner every Friday at her house--there are other ways to spend time with your adult children.

[junienmomo]

Lorelai made a quilt out of old baby clothes of Rory's. That could be done with all second-hand things and all the tools that were needed were scissors, needle and thread. It wasn't a small quilt, and though it's straightforward to look at a picture and make one, quilters have a tendency to voluntarily share information. She also learned how to knit MOL at some point.

From the baby clothes quilt she learned how to sew a straight line, how to hold multiple layers together, and how to deconstruct a garment. If you have an eye for good clothes and the skills mentioned above, you can be a passable seamstress. Add to that the idea of refashioning used clothes to fit e.g. young Rory, and there's plenty of opportunity to practice. 

There are other quilts in her house, notably one on the landing wall and a red and white one she and Luke sleep under. The red and white one is likely a gift because it would probably be beyond her capabilities to do without training. So there is likely a quilter and seamstress in Lorelai's early SH life. I'm guessing a friendly maid or Mia.

 

The remodel:

While I'm not sure it was explicitly stated, I believe Luke discussed the payment arrangements he made with Tom for the remodel. Now, the idea that Lorelai didn't on-screen pay him back is disturbing, because that was easily the same amount of money as the $30,000 loan. She never showed remorse or a wish to pay him back AFAIK. 

Given that she was still trying to decide if she was going to let Luke move in during episode 6.14, You've Been Gilmored (You're gonna have to tell me how it is living with a guy before I let Luke move in. ), it's pretty hypocritical of her to have his not moving in as one of her complaints in the ultimatum. 

For all that she was too proud to accept Christopher's gifts, even after they were married, judging by the lack of new cars, designer clothes and expensive jewelry, she sure cleaned up with Luke. The Paris trip was a scary expensive gift, for sure, but Christopher really collected on that one.

[moonb]

I'm going to assume that Rory was a placid toddler and Mia allowed Lorelai to clean rooms while having Rory with her, if she avoided guests. Of course, that really plays further into issues of privilege - how many jobs are there for a young single mom where you can take your child to work, get a place to live, and get a lot of your meals there? I would hope that Lorelai learned to "pay it forward," so to speak, and give a hand to other possibly struggling employees.

That said, I don't doubt Lorelai's work ethic. Pre-Dragonfly, she's shown to be excellent at handling weddings and big events. Even though it's a really early episode, I thought "Kill Me Now" and the double wedding business demonstrated that Lorelai belonged in that kind of job.

Edited September 26, 2016 by moonb

[Viqutorious]

2 hours ago, shron17 said:

Emily forced her to come to dinner every Friday at her house--there are other ways to spend time with your adult children.

Emily didn't force her to do anything. Lorelai did not plan, apply for a scholarship or save for her daughter to go to a school she couldn't afford, (what was her plan?) she asked her parents to loan her the money. Chilton was big bucks, trading weekly dinners for 60-70k is hardly punishment or an inappropriate condition placed on the loan. Rory deserved to know her Grandparents.

 Lorelai could have said no, this was not a life or death situation and no force was involved.

I don't doubt Lorelai's work ethic either, I think she is good at her job. The comment about maids being jealous of her for working so hard felt petty and another example of she's better than everyone else. Nobody gets "jealous" of a fellow employee who works hard. I think is more common to resent employees that get special treatment. 

I had no idea how much that line from Mia rubbed me the wrong way until this thead!

[txhorns79]

Quote

I'm going to assume that Rory was a placid toddler and Mia allowed Lorelai to clean rooms while having Rory with her, if she avoided guests. Of course, that really plays further into issues of privilege - how many jobs are there for a young single mom where you can take your child to work, get a place to live, and get a lot of your meals there? I would hope that Lorelai learned to "pay it forward," so to speak, and give a hand to other possibly struggling employees.

I'm not sure it's really an issue of privilege, so much as it's just fantasy.  It's rare that any normal job is going to provide free room and board, while allowing  you to take your child with you as you work.  Though I always found it strange that Lorelai was portrayed as being very close to Mia, yet Mia was never suggested as an option for help when Lorelai would have her money issues.      

Quote

Emily didn't force her to do anything. Lorelai did not plan, apply for a scholarship or save for her daughter to go to a school she couldn't afford, (what was her plan?) she asked her parents to loan her the money. Chilton was big bucks, trading weekly dinners for 60-70k is hardly punishment or an inappropriate condition placed on the loan. Rory deserved to know her Grandparents.

I agree.  Lorelai wanted Emily's money and accepted Emily's terms.  Oddly, Lorelai seemed entirely unprepared that Rory could be accepted to Chilton.  I can understand some of that, because the Pilot suggested the open spot at the school was last minute, but it was never clear to me how Lorelai ever would have afforded that school absent her parents' help. 

[chessiegal]

29 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I agree.  Lorelai wanted Emily's money and accepted Emily's terms.  Oddly, Lorelai seemed entirely unprepared that Rory could be accepted to Chilton.  I can understand some of that, because the Pilot suggested the open spot at the school was last minute, but it was never clear to me how Lorelai ever would have afforded that school absent her parents' help. 

I watched the Pilot today. It's clearly written for drama and story line that Lorelai didn't research the costs and payment options, because she's on the phone saying, can't I just pay part of it. Without this, the whole premise of the show disappears. A show without Richard and Emily and the family tension would not work, IMO. ASP knew what she was doing in setting up this dynamic. I always give this show poetic license. Plenty of nitpicks, but overall just so well done and written (most of the time).

[txhorns79]

Quote

I watched the Pilot today. It's clearly written for drama and story line that Lorelai didn't research the costs and payment options, because she's on the phone saying, can't I just pay part of it. Without this, the whole premise of the show disappears. A show without Richard and Emily and the family tension would not work, IMO. ASP knew what she was doing in setting up this dynamic. I always give this show poetic license. Plenty of nitpicks, but overall just so well done and written (most of the time).

I totally get they need this element in the story to make the show work.  I just think it makes Lorelai look ridiculous and irresponsible.  I mean, even presuming that Lorelai was given a number of months leeway before the tuition was due, where exactly was Lorelai going to get the money for the school she apparently desperately wanted Rory to attend?   

[Viqutorious]

9 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I totally get they need this element in the story to make the show work.  I just think it makes Lorelai look ridiculous and irresponsible.  I mean, even presuming that Lorelai was given a number of months leeway before the tuition was due, where exactly was Lorelai going to get the money for the school she apparently desperately wanted Rory to

I agree, and they do it again when Rory is applying for colleges and Lorelai was angry that she applied at other schools than Harvard. At least they are consistent in making her look ridiculous and irresponsible!

[txhorns79]

Quote

I agree, and they do it again when Rory is applying for colleges and Lorelai was angry that she applied at other schools than Harvard. At least they are consistent in making her look ridiculous and irresponsible!

I just wanted someone to step in, slap Lorelai and tell her to snap out of it.  She was being such a brat.  Emily had it right when she asked Lorelai if she hated her parents that much that she couldn't even let Rory share just a part of their lives.     

[TimetravellingBW]

18 hours ago, chessiegal said:

I watched the Pilot today. It's clearly written for drama and story line that Lorelai didn't research the costs and payment options, because she's on the phone saying, can't I just pay part of it. Without this, the whole premise of the show disappears. A show without Richard and Emily and the family tension would not work, IMO. ASP knew what she was doing in setting up this dynamic. I always give this show poetic license. Plenty of nitpicks, but overall just so well done and written (most of the time).

I think if they'd just tweaked how Rory ended up at getting into Chilton it would have made Lorelai look less clueless and unprepared. Maybe if Stars Hollow High sent her transcripts/tests to Chilton because they like to push particularly gifted students (I'm not American so I don't know how the U.S education system works, that could be impossible) so Rory and Lorelai find out she got accepted unexpectedly rather than them having planned it for years without considering the money. Or maybe Rory went up for a scholarship but only got a partial one, and Lorelai still wanted her to take the chance. Yeah that detail gets a bit pernickety but it would make Lorelai look more competent. 

On 9/26/2016 at 9:52 AM, random chance said:

Hell, you don't even have to look further for her privilege than the pilot episode of the show. She didn't put her daughter through private school by working hard and saving, she did it by agreeing to have dinner once a week with her rich parents. And even that she bitched about.

To be fair private schools (especially ones like Chilton) are so ridiculously expensive that there are a ton of people who could never afford to send their kids there even if they saved every cent they earned. I have no trouble believing paying for Chilton was nigh-impossible on an Inn manager's salary, especially as Lorelai was paying off what was probably a decent mortgage on the Crap Shack. One thing the show was consistent and true to life with, was the reality that fancy schools like Chilton and Yale are pretty inaccessible to people without wealthy families like Lane, Dean, Jess etc. Marty is the only significant character from a non-Gilmore-esque background we see at Yale, and it's clear he's working himself to the bone to afford it. 

On 9/26/2016 at 9:40 AM, deaja said:

There's a lot I love about Lorelai, but a lot things that really bother me such as just about everything said in this thread.

Another thing that really bugs me is her acting like she's a self-made woman who got where she is based on hard work and natural abilities. No, she was born into privilege, had a privileged upbringing and education, and a huge safety net to fall back on. Someone up thread said she likely didn't stay a maid long, and I concur. However, I think her prep school education and likely some type of finishing school program gave her an incredible advantage in "moving up."

That's so true. I think one of the fascinating, subtle things about Lorelai is despite all her talk about being humble and down-to-earth, she carries this innate entitlement and confidence that comes with a privileged background. We see over and over that she has no problem pushing herself forward for things, no problem demanding what she wants and does expect special treatment. (There are hundreds of examples but the quickest that springs to mind is when Rory breaks her arm, Lorelai demands that the doctor do another check up on her. That behaviour feels very Emily-like ironically). That kind of natural command has got to have helped her "stand out" among the maids at the Independence Inn and naturally slip into being in charge, while they probably kept their heads down, did the work and didn't expect anything more. If Lorelai thinks she's better and isn't afraid of saying it, it's not surprising she'd be the one to get promoted. A lifetime of watching Emily Gilmore manage maids and household staff prepared her to learn to manage an Inn. 

(This is of course speculation from what we see of Lorelai and the unfortunate reality of what happens in real life. And to be fair I do think Lorelai did work very hard, deserved her position and seems very capable. But her background and upbringing probably helped). 

[Taryn74]

On 9/26/2016 at 1:41 PM, CheeseBurgh said:

 Nobody gets "jealous" of a fellow employee who works hard. I think is more common to resent employees that get special treatment. 

Actually, Mia never said the other maids were jealous, she just said they hated Lorelai.  I find it VERY believable that they could have resented Lorelai simply because she was a harder worker than they were.  I see it happen all the time.  Lots of people would far rather bring someone down to their own level, rather than try to move themselves up.

[Viqutorious]

Being hated is not a compliment in most worlds!

[katha]

6 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Actually, Mia never said the other maids were jealous, she just said they hated Lorelai.  I find it VERY believable that they could have resented Lorelai simply because she was a harder worker than they were.  I see it happen all the time.  Lots of people would far rather bring someone down to their own level, rather than try to move themselves up.

I think there might have been a strong class aspect tied into this as well. Lorelai started as a maid, but she had good education and a life in privilege as her background, the other maids probably didn't. Which might create resentment if it's perceived that she thinks she's above them (and since Lorelai has a history of acting entitled even as an adult, I wouldn't totally exclude the possibility that she perhaps acted unconsciously in unfortunate and/or condescending ways towards the other maids) and yeah, if she was aggressive and pushed herself forward for promotions the others might have hated her simply for the fact that they didn't have the self-confidence (also tied to a life in riches) to do it. If you're keeping your head down, struggling to survive and don't see any way out of it, your fellow maid who has no inhibitions about making demands won't produce warm fuzzy feelings. It's a lifetime of lack of expectations and struggle and frustration taking its toll. So I wouldn't be sure that Lorelai worked harder, necessarily, (though I'm sure she worked hard), but that it was probably clear she had ambitions beyond her position while the other maids perhaps didn't know how to go about this or didn't have the self-confidence.

You see this repeated in Jess, actually. Smart kid who doesn't have any kind of hopes or aspirations for his future. Total lack of encouragement from his environment and constant economic uncertainty probably played a large part in creating a kid this frustrated and disillusioned with the world.

[shron17]

6 hours ago, katha said:

I think there might have been a strong class aspect tied into this as well. Lorelai started as a maid, but she had good education and a life in privilege as her background, the other maids probably didn't. Which might create resentment if it's perceived that she thinks she's above them (and since Lorelai has a history of acting entitled even as an adult, I wouldn't totally exclude the possibility that she perhaps acted unconsciously in unfortunate and/or condescending ways towards the other maids) and yeah, if she was aggressive and pushed herself forward for promotions the others might have hated her simply for the fact that they didn't have the self-confidence (also tied to a life in riches) to do it.

I agree with all of this, but would think Lorelai was also motivated to work extra hard knowing she had a child to take care of on her own.  Yes, she had a fallback but it's also been clear from the pilot episode that asking her parents for help was not an option she would easily consider.

[TwirlyGirly]

S1/E13 "Concert Interruptus"

Something about this episode has always bugged me, and I rewatched it yesterday just to make sure I had my facts straight.

Sookie obtains the tickets for The Bangles concert by cashing in a favor. She had made a volcano wedding cake for the Birnbaum's wedding. Mr. Birnbaum, who just happened to run a ticket agency, wanted to "do something nice" for Sookie because he was so pleased with the cake, so Sookie "traded in" her favor to get four tickets for the concert; one each for herself and Lorelai, one for Rory, and one for Lane.

Naturally Mrs. Kim won't allow Lane to go, leaving one ticket free.

On the day of the concert, Paris, Louise, and Madeline all meet at Rory's house to work on an upcoming debate for school.

Suddenly, Lorelai gets the bright idea to invite all three girls, Paris, Louise, and Madeline - to attend the concert with Rory - essentially giving the tickets Sookie earned through her hard labor to someone else, without even asking Sookie if that would be okay with her. There really wasn't any excuse for Lorelai not discussing the plan with Sookie first, as Sookie was at Lorelai's house at the time, helping her with preparations for the upcoming town rummage sale.

Now, I'm certain Sookie would have said okay to Lorelai's plan (even if it bothered her at all, because she always allowed Lorelai to take advantage of her). But in my mind, that's not the point. Lorelai should have asked before making the offer to Rory, especially since the trade-off meant giving away the "good seats" to three girls that were all complete strangers to Sookie, necessitating Sookie (and Lorelai) accept seating in a really crappy area.
                                                         

[txhorns79]

Quote

Suddenly, Lorelai gets the bright idea to invite all three girls, Paris, Louise, and Madeline - to attend the concert with Rory - essentially giving the tickets Sookie earned through her hard labor to someone else, without even asking Sookie if that would be okay with her.

You are entirely right.  Lorelai gave away tickets which weren't her tickets to give away, and made it so she and Sookie had to get awful seat.  And this was all for four girls who ended up sneaking out of the concert early, and making it so Lorelai and Sookie had to leave the concert early!

Edited October 5, 2016 by txhorns79

[timimouse]

6 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

You are entirely right.  Lorelai gave away tickets which weren't her tickets to give away, and made it so she and Sookie had to get awful seat.  And this was all for four girls who ended up sneaking out of the concert early, and making it so Lorelai and Sookie had to leave the concert early!

I don't think they left the concert early. Didn't they only find out Madeline and Louise left after the concert was over and they weren't at the designated meeting area? But I do agree with both of you that her just giving away Sookie's ticket was downright ridiculous. It's all fine if she gave away hers and even Lane's because essentially that was for "Rory's friend" so if she wanted to invite another friend, no problem. But she didn't even consult with Sookie at all and i guess it really set the tone for their relationship.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don't think they left the concert early.

You are right.  I misremembered the timeline. 

[Smad]

15 minutes ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Now, I'm certain Sookie would have said okay to Lorelai's plan (even if it bothered her at all, because she always allowed Lorelai to take advantage of her). But in my mind, that's not the point. Lorelai should have asked before making the offer to Rory, especially since the trade-off meant giving away the "good seats" to three girls that were all complete strangers to Sookie, necessitating Sookie (and Lorelai) accept seating in a really crappy area.                                                        

It's surprising Lorelai and Sookie were even able to get any tickets at all. I'm going to guess that the concert was sold out. That means they would have had to get the cheap seat tickets from someone who was selling them at inflated prices outside the building that evening. They were all set to go for FREE to that concert until Lorelai decided to give the tickets away without Sookie's consent so instead they probably had to spend a hefty amount.

[random chance]

That always bothered me too. At some point I just pretended to myself that they cut the scene where she asked Sukie, because it was so aggravating.

[shron17]

Well, Sookie did say she got them at Lorelai's request.  

Quote

SOOKIE: I have here in my hand, as requested by Ms. Lorelai Gilmore, four fabulous tickets to the Bangles at the Pastorella theater on Saturday!

......
LORELAI: I can’t believe you got me my tickets! Well, how did you score these?
SOOKIE: Remember the Birnbaum wedding?
LORELAI: Fiji fantasy?
SOOKIE: Yes. They were so thrilled with the volcano wedding cake that they wanted to do something nice for me and since Mr. Birnbaum runs a ticket agency and I knew you were dying to so, so I asked him if he could...

 

[TwirlyGirly]

9 minutes ago, shron17 said:

Well, Sookie did say she got them at Lorelai's request

Personally, that part of the conversation never made any sense to me. Lorelai didn't know about Mr. Birnbaum being a ticket seller, so we know Lorelai didn't say to Sookie "Hey, do you think you can get tickets to The Bangles concert from Mr. Birnbaum?" The way it was presented was that it was probably more of a casual conversation, like "I wish we could get some tickets to go see The Bangles" because the concert was probably sold out. If it was just as easy as calling and buying the tickets over the phone, Lorelai could have done that herself - so it doesn't appear from the dialogue tickets were available through conventional means.

So, if Sookie hadn't put her time and her creativity into making the Birnbaum's wedding cake, there would be no tickets. Sookie planned a special outing for  her, Lorelai, Rory, and Lane to enjoy together, and Lorelai, without consulting with Sookie, decided Rory's need for friends trumped them all enjoying an event her "best friend" had made possible solely through her own efforts.

And, as another poster pointed out, most likely the tickets Sookie and Lorelai purchased at the venue were bought from a ticket scalper. That's the only way the storyline makes any sense.

[shron17]

2 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

And, as another poster pointed out, most likely the tickets Sookie and Lorelai purchased at the venue were bought from a ticket scalper. That's the only way the storyline makes any sense.

Not really.  The fact that the ticket seller could get them really good seats doesn't prove the tickets were sold out.  In fact, Lorelai told Rory she and Sookie could buy cheap seats when they got there.  My take on the situation was that Lorelai had talked to Sookie about wanting to go to the concert, maybe they'd even discussed driving in and buying tickets the day of.  Sookie had an unexpected opportunity fall into her lap and chose to use it to snag 4 tickets with really good seats.  I didn't see anything to indicate Sookie cared that much about seeing Bangles, or that she was upset that Lorelai gave them to Rory.

[txhorns79]

Quote

My take on the situation was that Lorelai had talked to Sookie about wanting to go to the concert, maybe they'd even discussed driving in and buying tickets the day of.  Sookie had an unexpected opportunity fall into her lap and chose to use it to snag 4 tickets with really good seats.  I didn't see anything to indicate Sookie cared that much about seeing Bangles, or that she was upset that Lorelai gave them to Rory.

I don't think Sookie was upset, but it's more just a matter of courtesy than anything else.  If I got tickets for myself and other people to attend a concert, I'd want to at least be asked before they were given away to other people. 

[Viqutorious]

2 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't think Sookie was upset, but it's more just a matter of courtesy than anything else.  If I got tickets for myself and other people to attend a concert, I'd want to at least be asked before they were given away to other people

I agree, Lorelai was not known for being courteous!

[shron17]

4 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I don't think Sookie was upset, but it's more just a matter of courtesy than anything else.  If I got tickets for myself and other people to attend a concert, I'd want to at least be asked before they were given away to other people. 

I understand that some people would feel that way.  But if Lorelai knew for sure it wouldn't bother Sookie, why would it matter?

12 hours ago, TwirlyGirly said:

Lorelai should have asked before making the offer to Rory, especially since the trade-off meant giving away the "good seats" to three girls that were all complete strangers to Sookie, necessitating Sookie (and Lorelai) accept seating in a really crappy area.

But Rory wasn't a stranger to Sookie.  In the pilot when she offered to sell her car I got the impression she would do just about anything for Rory.

I wouldn't defend everything about Lorelai and certainly don't like everything she does.  But I do think she tries, in general, to be a good friend.  It doesn't come naturally to her but she does try to avoid hurting those she cares about.  It's more how she treats/talks about strangers that I have a problem with.

[txhorns79]

Quote

But if Lorelai knew for sure it wouldn't bother Sookie, why would it matter?

I don't think Sookie would be upset if asked, but how can you know for sure if you don't ask?  I have friends where I can anticipate their reactions, but I would never give away something that belongs to them without asking.  

[TwirlyGirly]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

But Rory wasn't a stranger to Sookie.  In the pilot when she offered to sell her car I got the impression she would do just about anything for Rory.

I wouldn't defend everything about Lorelai and certainly don't like everything she does.  But I do think she tries, in general, to be a good friend.  It doesn't come naturally to her but she does try to avoid hurting those she cares about.  It's more how she treats/talks about strangers that I have a problem with.

Right....but the "three girls" I mentioned in my post - Louise, Madeline, and Paris - were complete strangers to Sookie, so Lorelei effectively gave away Sookie's really good seat to a stranger, without even asking her. That's my point, and I think that's kind of a sucky thing to do to someone you consider your "best friend." Especially because if not for Sookie, none of them would be going to the concert. So if nothing else, Sookie deserved the courtesy of being asked (and asked in a place and in a manner in which she'd feel comfortable saying she'd rather not do that, if that's how she felt).

[chessiegal]

I took it that Sookie gifted the tickets to Lorelai. She wanted them, Sookie got them, and GAVE them to Lorelai.  And with that I'm out of this discussion.

[twoods]

Her giving those tickets away to Rory's twit "friends" annoyed me, which is why I skipped that episode on season 1 rewatch. Also, I got mad again at Lorelai yelling at poor Dean in PS I lo... Rory is the greatest girl ever! It could never be her fault that Dean and her broke up, so let's yell at the poor guy at his job. 

I also hated how she was appalled at Rory running to her parents house, and calling it "hell." She really is terrible at times.

[shron17]

On 10/5/2016 at 8:40 PM, TwirlyGirly said:

Right....but the "three girls" I mentioned in my post - Louise, Madeline, and Paris - were complete strangers to Sookie, so Lorelei effectively gave away Sookie's really good seat to a stranger, without even asking her.

Yes, they were strangers to Sookie but potential friends for Rory.  I still think the same woman who offered to sell her car to help pay for Rory's tuition would be 100% in agreement with Lorelai's idea to offer them to Rory and her "friends."  And I think Lorelai already knew that when she offered the tickets to Rory. 

[Smad]

6 hours ago, shron17 said:

Yes, they were strangers to Sookie but potential friends for Rory.  I still think the same woman who offered to sell her car to help pay for Rory's tuition would be 100% in agreement with Lorelai's idea to offer them to Rory and her "friends."  And I think Lorelai already knew that when she offered the tickets to Rory. 

Very true but...it's just the polite thing to do to ask first. If you were taught good manners that is. Which Lorelai sadly wasn't.

[timimouse]

3 hours ago, Smad said:

Very true but...it's just the polite thing to do to ask first. If you were taught good manners that is. Which Lorelai sadly wasn't.

I think Lorelai was taught good manners. Emily tried to epitomise Ms. Manners herself (not always successfully, but she tried). Lorelai however, was so determined to reject anything taught to her by her parents that she became unmannerly in many situations.

[random chance]

Emily had terrible manners! She broke just about every single rule of good manners at one point or the other. She would  invite people into her home for a meal and then insult them to their face while they ate it - that's hostess rule number one, you never make your guest feel uncomfortable. She would correct compliments instead of saying thank  you. ("You congratulate the groom and say best wishes to the bride.") She didn't bother to learn the names of anyone she thought was beneath her. ("Your Asian friend.") She rarely phrased a request politely. She talked about her money way too often. She treated people well or badly according to how high up the chain they were. (Maids: yelled at. Store employees: yelled at. Richard's rich friend: oozing charm.) She didn't bother with please or thank you all that often. She was a manners horror show.

Now that I think about it, it's amazing Lorelai's manners were as good as they were.

[Smad]

1 hour ago, timimouse said:

I think Lorelai was taught good manners. Emily tried to epitomise Ms. Manners herself (not always successfully, but she tried). Lorelai however, was so determined to reject anything taught to her by her parents that she became unmannerly in many situations.

Lorelai was raised with Gilmore manners. Which means that good manners were reserved only for the rich and fancy. Anyone else was treated like filth. And while Lorelai doesn't exibit that many Emily/Richard manners, she clearly more often than not shows the entitlement that comes with being raised in the world of the priviledged. See the above post for detailed Emily Gilmore manners examples. However Lorelai can get on occassion very Emily-esque, the difference is she wouldn't do it to someone's face. Whether that's making fun of the overweight faceless woman with the bunny slippers and big underwear she would never say that Sookie's face even though that could be her. Or when she makes fun of the townspeople. Like when she complains about becoming a crazy, single cat lady and comparing that to Babette.

I was raised with the manners of the common people which means I would have asked Sookie first if it's ok to give the tickets away. Because that's the polite thing to do. Lorelai rarely ever goes to that level of manners because she feels entitled to do whatever she wants.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Smad