S02.E11: eps2.9_pyth0n-pt1.p7z

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Angela makes an acquaintance; Darlene realizes she is in too deep; an old friend reveals everything to Elliot.

 

[benteen]

Very good episode despite the fact that the show continues to draw out its reveals.  It reveals something and then doesn't show you what that reveal was.  At least for another week in some cases.

Tyrell's back!  Good to see him again.

Angela and Whiterose was very good.  The part with the kid reminded me of Person of Interest, which Mr. Robot has some similarities too.

I noticed three songs from Back to the Future were played in this episode.  Earth Angel at the end.  While Angela was in the trucks, that saxophone music from the beginning of the Enchantment Under the Sea dance and Davey Crockett. 

[Cardie]

This one was a head-scratcher for me--not sure what was going on. Whiterose has to be the weirdest person on Earth. Major props to her for being able to fake enough normalcy to achieve all that power in China. Her NJ pet project sounds almost sci-fi in nature. The interview scene suggested the test for Replicants in Blade Runner.

6 minutes ago, benteen said:

I noticed three songs from Back to the Future were played in this episode.  Earth Angel at the end.  While Angela was in the trucks, that saxophone music from the beginning of the Enchantment Under the Sea dance and Davey Crockett

Good catch. I wondered what Davy was supposed to suggest.

Her poor fish; I thought of Qwerty. This has been a tough season for pets.

I'm guessing Elliot's involvement in Ray's bitcoin exchange site was meant to echo in Price establishing E-coin as a rival alternate currency, probably why he and Whiterose backed the fsociety hack. They needed the world financial system to flatline.

One more probably wrong theory about Tyrell. What if he is indeed the real person we saw last season and Mr. Robot killed him.  Now the third Elliot persona that partnered with the Dark Army has taken on his appearance, just as Mr. Robot has the form of Elliot's dead father.

[kat165]

Cardie, I love that third person theory taking on Tyrell's persona. So far, as I've noticed, there has been no follow up to the blips Mr.R/Elliot experienced a few episodes ago.

The description above mentions Darlene but I did not see Darlene in this ep. Did anyone else? And I hate that they continually have something intense happen in an ep and then there is no follow up on it the following wk. We did get to see Dom after the shootup, but I was more interested in Darlene/Cisco.

In some ways this season reminds me of season 3 of Orphan Black which wasted entirely too much time on that boring desert compound where Helena was being held. At least 5 eps (and there are only 10 to a season) could have been cut and told the same story. Same here w/ Mr. R this season. Although I'm hoping the last ep will somehow redeem some of the time wasters of this season. I ain't holding my breath though.

I also thought that the testing of Angela was so Blade Runner like, one of my favorite movies (one of my favorite pc games). For the most part I do like the slow, art movie style of some of the filming in this but with Angela it's always slow moving & always arty/oblique and I find myself nodding out during her parts. Her acting combined with the slowness is just deadening. Mostly I think I just don' t have any patience for like the zombie like performance of the actress.

Good to see Tyrell who I did not like last season. Wish we could have spent more time with Elliot. All in all this ep was a huge let down from last wk. Not because I need action/violence (quite the opposite actually), but most of the little pieces (and that's all we got except Angela's which I could have done without although BD Wong always kills) didn't hold my interest and there was so little of them.

I guess the redhead and guy who have been following Angela weren't FBI.

Edited September 15, 2016 by kat165
clarity goddamn it

[kat165]

Forgot to mention that last little bit of Elliot in the cab with Tyrell, "What aren't I seeing?" That was awesome, that whole little mini dialogue. Yes, Elliot, what aren't we seeing. I did love too how he caught Mr. Robot unawares and wondered what happened (he couldn't hold on to it?) when he lost him.

Often Elliot reminds me of this awesome book by Matt Ruff called Set This House in Order which is about a young man who suffers from multiple personality disorder. It's fascinating to see how the main character/personality keeps all the personalities in line - or not. I highly recommend it.

[juliet73]

I was really confused with this episode.  It was very slow so it wasn't holding my attention.  No Darlene.  No mention of Darlene or Cisco. A restaurant gets shot up and nothing?  

I vaguely remember the computer system the little girl was using.  I was confused by her questions...where is the key?  etc... 

So is Tyrell dead for sure?  Are we seeing a "Tyrell" personality? 

What was Joanna looking at on the phone?  What ever happened to location the phone was tracked to last week? 

Is Angela dropping her case? Will someone please explain this episode to me... I don't want to have to watch it again. 

[green]

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

Cardie, I love that third person theory taking on Tyrell's persona. So far, as I've noticed, there has been no follow up to the blips Mr.R/Elliot experienced a few episodes ago.

The description above mentions Darlene but I did not see Darlene in this ep. Did anyone else? And I hate that they continually have something intense happen in an ep and then there is no follow up on it the following wk. We did get to see Dom after the shootup, but I was more interested in Darlene/Cisco.

In some ways this season reminds me of season 3 of Orphan Black which wasted entirely too much time on that boring desert compound where Helena was being held. At least 5 eps (and there are only 10 to a season) could have been cut and told the same story. Same here w/ Mr. R this season. Although I'm hoping the last ep will somehow redeem some of the time wasters of this season. I ain't holding my breath though.

I also thought that the testing of Angela was so Blade Runner like, one of my favorite movies (one of my favorite pc games). For the most part I do like the slow, art movie style of some of the filming in this but with Angela it's always slow moving & always arty/oblique and I find myself nodding out during her parts. Her acting combined with the slowness is just deadening. Mostly I think I just don' t have any patience for like the zombie like performance of the actress.

Good to see Tyrell who I did not like last season. Wish we could have spent more time with Elliot. All in all this ep was a huge let down from last wk. Not because I need action/violence (quite the opposite actually), but most of the little pieces (and that's all we got except Angela's which I could have done without although BD Wong always kills) didn't hold my interest and there was so little of them.

I guess the redhead and guy who have been following Angela weren't FBI.

This was just part 1 of this episode.  See the title above - basically reads "Python" - part 1.  Next week is "Python" - part 2 aka the conclusion of the episode.  So the write-up was for the episode on the whole and not just the first part only I'd guess.

I agree Angela continues to be the cure for insomnia.  I was so hoping Whiterose would do away with her but apparently Whiterose finds her a child of destiny / special little snowflake.  And now is Angela a true believer too?  Or was she acting to protect that lawyer when she was driven up to her house?  She already had the demeanor of a dazed, brainwashed cult follower before Whiterose so I'd go with her being a true believer until Esmail pulls the rug out from under me again.

I still accept that Tyrell is just that, Tyrell.  There has to be something not totally screwy and the directions to meet him came via something in the mail that Mr Robot found in Elliot's apt.  A concrete item mailed to him with clues to where he was suppose to meet Tyrell.  Or rather Mr Robot.  So unless Elliot was  busy running around mailing BBQ ads with stuff to decode inside to himself as Dead Tyrell to remind him or part of him or rather what another part of him (Mr Robot) wanted him to remember (or not to remember) about what he as Elliot totally didn't know but needed to know and/or be kept in the dark about ... ahhh etc etc.  Well that just goes way way to bizzaro even for this show I believe.

I agree it was filmed so you could (or could not) read it as being Dead Tyrell because Esmail likes to keep us guessing.  But I never saw Elliot use the popcorn gun on Tyrell so until I do I refuse to believe Elliot added another dead person to his collection of walking ghosts inside of his head.

Besides Mr Robot doesn't know where phase 2 is at and since Elliot doesn't even know there is a phase 2 ... well I think we need a live Tyrell  for that.  And Tyrell thinks Elliot knows all about all of this phase 2 plan and is totally surprised and shocked he has forgotten it whereas Mr Robot knows exactly that Elliot doesn't know everything and that Mr Robot keeps secrets from Elliot.  I guess you could argue that Mr Robot is hiding stuff from Tyrell as well but enough.  We have to draw the line somewhere and I'm drawing it at Tyrell being alive.  His heavy breathing phone on the other hand seems to have a separate life of it's own. 

And I really wish when Tyrell popped into the van that he had calmly said "Bon soir, Elliot" as the lead up to Elliot jumping out of his skin, going bonkers and screaming at that poor van driver.  If I was the driver I'd had dumped Elliot out on the spot as well.  But at least we got that Casablanca shot at the end.  And my good old Commodore 64 and Davy Crockett all made cameos too.  This has been the start of a beautiful albeit a crazy friendship with this show.

Next week they promise us all things will be answered and all mysteries solved.  Why do I NOT believe that promise?

Edited September 15, 2016 by green

[Cardie]

8 minutes ago, green said:

A concrete item mailed to him with clues to where he was suppose to meet Tyrell. 

Tyrell says that he's working for the Dark Army--as is Elliot--and they have plenty of flesh and blood operatives who can create that cipher and put it in the mail. So that communication doesn't prove one way or the other whether there's a "Tyrell" in Elliot's head.

[xaxat]

It's been a while since I've studied monetary policy, but the economics of this show don't make nearly as much sense as the computer science. China isn't sitting on a pile of cash that they can loan to E Corp and their debt relative to the size of their economy is worse than the US. The US, on the other hand, probably could afford a two trillion dollar loan. Depending on how you count, they weren't that far away from it during the last financial crisis. Maybe we would even get helicopter money!

Phillip's speech about e coin didn't make sense either. Chinese groups do hold a large amount of Bitcoins, but it's pretty easy to make your own cryptocurrency. And Phillip's promise that the government could track transaction kind of goes against the whole crypto thing.

The fact that White Rose has calculated Angela's life expectancy tells me that there is something going on with Dom's ability to survive her assassination attempts.

I'm actually getting more interested in Angela's story. She's not quite a tragic figure, but every time she tries to assert some agency in her life she gets shot down. Going all the way back to that first meeting at Allsafe. 

[Bama]

Yeah I think Tyrell is now another one of Elliot's personalities.  In season one, Tyrell was a real, separate person.  After Mr. Robot/Elliot killed Tyrell, I think that caused another "break" in Elliot's psyche and he created Tyrell to "battle" Mr. Robot.  

[crimsongrl]

The pacing of this show is killing me! Every episode I feel impaitent and want to yell "get on with it already!" How many mysteries does a show need?

Even though I love reading everyone's thoughts I'll be binge watching next season. The weekly crumbs never seem to satisfy.

I'm ready for this season to be over.

Edited September 18, 2016 by crimsongrl

[kat165]

Thank you, Cardie. I missed/overlooked that. And another board member had pointed this out
to me last wk, I should have remembered.

"Angela continues to be the cure for insomnia" - thank you, this is hilarious. :) Besides true.

I kind of do think she was trying to protect the lawyer, but there seems to be more to her new
demeanor than that. I'm not sure I care though. She bugs.

I also think Tyrell is "real" but I think there's more going on here than what we're seeing. Probably
just based on Elliot's dialogue what are we missing/are we missing something? Plus I would like it
to be something unexpected/that blows my mind.

I'm still hoping for a personality #3 being the one who knows all about/set up phase 2. Unbeknownst
to Elliot & Mr. R.

I don't believe that promise either, Green, but this show hasn't let me down that often so I remain
positive. :)

I mostly feel the same way, crimsongrl. The show often can be more draining that interesting. Although I didn't feel this way about season 1. Probably because there was more Elliot and he's the character I'm interest in the most.

[green]

34 minutes ago, xaxat said:

It's been a while since I've studied monetary policy, but the economics of this show don't make nearly as much sense as the computer science. China isn't sitting on a pile of cash that they can loan to E Corp and their debt relative to the size of their economy is worse than the US. The US, on the other hand, probably could afford a two trillion dollar loan. Depending on how you count, they weren't that far away from it during the last financial crisis. Maybe we would even get helicopter money!

Phillip's speech about e coin didn't make sense either. Chinese groups do hold a large amount of Bitcoins, but it's pretty easy to make your own cryptocurrency. And Phillip's promise that the government could track transaction kind of goes against the whole crypto thing.

The fact that White Rose has calculated Angela's life expectancy tells me that there is something going on with Dom's ability to survive her assassination attempts.

I'm actually getting more interested in Angela's story. She's not quite a tragic figure, but every time she tries to assert some agency in her life she gets shot down. Going all the way back to that first meeting at Allsafe. 

Wasn't it a 2 trillion bitcoin loan if a bitcoin = one dollar.  Which Price wants the US gov't to guarantee or whatever.  And I think Price wants bitcoin as THE mainstream currency of the whole world period as in total monopoly since he had E Corp were cornering the market of same pre-hack for that very reason?  The sole equivalent of the Treasurer for the whole world or distributor?  I didn't get the details too well either.  Just that Price was into the bitcoin end as part of the hack from the beginning.

It does seem at odds with Mr Robot, in the very first episode on the Ferris wheel with Elliot, saying nothing has been right since the gold standard disappeared.  Yet it seems the hack is moving the concept of currency even further away from the gold standard.  Me I never got the gold standard.  Gold is good for use in electronics as it is an awesome conductor but is pretty much otherwise too soft to be useful.  So why people thought gold was valuable throughout history still mystifies me.  You need an item to exchange because barter on a daily basis is awkward and a hassle but why gold? It's as made up in value as bitcoins in a way though it is pretty to look at I guess.

Was the address last week 28th Street too?  Is Tyrell's heavy breathing phone with Tyrell then?  The area he and Elliot got dumped at didn't look upscale in that shot.

[Kalliste]

At about the 20min mark I had a look at how much was left because zzzzzzzzz. I can't believe there is only 1 episode left. This season has been a bunch of nothing so far. I can only hope it's a massive build up to whatever happens next.

The parts I liked were the weird test White Rose set up for her and how intrigued she is with doors. I also liked the Tyrell/Elliot part at the end. The way it was filmed seems to imply Tyrell isn't real but I think that's what they want us to think and he actually is. He better be, is all I can say because I'll be so annoyed that we got through nearly the entire season to find out he's dead and in Elliot's head.

The part with Dom and Alisa was far too long. Sorry Dom, I just don't really care that you're unhappy/sad/lonely, nothing in this season suggests she does anything but work so what does she expect?

A thought I had today; Does Dom live in the city? I got the feeling she had been told to go there when they were in the ecorp digs but given the tiny flat she lives in I'm assuming it's her place and the FBI isn't putting her up somewhere.

I know she mentioned something to Angela about being from there but can't recall if she still lives there.

[loki567]

My guess is Tyrell's still alive because logistically how can you have about half your cast being a figment of Elliot's imagination? 

The Angela storyline is making me nervous. I think Portia Doubleday is a pretty piss poor actress. She's been tolerable because she's been getting some decent storylines that didn't necessary fall in the usual Love Interest trap but now both Elliot and Price are in love with her and that could have GLOBAL implications? And now we need WhiteRose to marvel at the wonder that is Angela Moss as he tries to recruit her? No good. 

The show needs some definite answers next week. 

Edited September 15, 2016 by loki567

[Cardie]

5 hours ago, green said:

Wasn't it a 2 trillion bitcoin loan if a bitcoin = one dollar.  Which Price wants the US gov't to guarantee or whatever.  And I think Price wants bitcoin as THE mainstream currency of the whole world period as in total monopoly since he had E Corp were cornering the market of same pre-hack for that very reason?  The sole equivalent of the Treasurer for the whole world or distributor?  I didn't get the details too well either.  Just that Price was into the bitcoin end as part of the hack from the beginning

Price wants to set up E-coin as a competitor to bitcoin. Currently only governments can issue valid currencies. Price has foreseen that this is fast becoming an outmoded concept and he wants the US Government to sanction E-coin as a virtual, privatized legal tender, which is currently illegal and unconstitutional. Bitcoin is still pretty shady and Price intends to take over the concept and essentially set up E-Corp as an equal to the Federal Reserve. China, I think, is lending him $2 trillion in its real currency, which Price will convert to E-coin.

Gold's value, like that of precious stones, comes not from its utility but from its relative scarcity. The idea of the gold standard is not so much about gold per se as about there being something of value in storage that corresponds in value to the symbolic currency the nation circulates. (I'm sure someone with economics training can explain this better than I can.)

[benteen]

7 hours ago, crimsongrl said:

The pacing of this show is killing me! Every episode I feel impaitent and what to yell "get on with it already!" How many mysteries does a show need?

Even though I love reading everyone's thoughts I'll be binge watching next season. The weekly crumbs never seem to satisfy.

I'm ready for this season to be over.

I agree to a certain point about the pacing.  Though I'm finding the holding off of reveals till next week to be very annoying.  This is where binge watching would eliminate that.

Edited September 15, 2016 by benteen

[Neurochick]

7 hours ago, Bama said:

Yeah I think Tyrell is now another one of Elliot's personalities.  In season one, Tyrell was a real, separate person.  After Mr. Robot/Elliot killed Tyrell, I think that caused another "break" in Elliot's psyche and he created Tyrell to "battle" Mr. Robot.  

I just watched this episode; it was crazy but I love it.  The problem was that last night I kept switching between this show and American Horror Story and after awhile, I couldn't tell which show I was watching. 

[eejm]

I suspect phase 2 involves the hacking of E-coin.  That would explain the involvement of Whiterose and the Dark Army.  Price is trying to engineer E-coin as the only currency with real value, which Whiterose knows due to the circumstances of the Chinese loan.  The hacking of E-coin would truly eliminate all the world's debt as well as Evil Corp, and Price would be essentially powerless.  

I think Tyrell is still a real person and has thrown all of his involvement into phase 2 because he's so power hungry.  Involvement in this would impress Joanna.  I'm not convinced of this, though.  The fact that he's still dressed impeccably suggests that Tyrell might be dead and Elliot is seeing him in his "familiar" form, much as he sees Mr. Robot as how his dad always looked.

[Primetimer]

The episode's best scene comments on the show's worst instincts.

View the full article

[Cardie]

Given Whiterose's obsession with time and the music cues from Back to the Future, I wonder if her Washington Township Project involves the invention of time travel. Not that I think this is the sort of show in which she could succeed, but it strikes me as a fantasy she might nurture and believe she could accomplish through force of will.

[Milaxx]

12 hours ago, kat165 said:

The description above mentions Darlene but I did not see Darlene in this ep. Did anyone else? And I hate that they continually have something intense happen in an ep and then there is no follow up on it the following wk. We did get to see Dom after the shootup, but I was more interested in Darlene/Cisco.

Could have been a typo or the description was written when the episode was still supposed to be shown as one. However I mentioned in the Darlene thread that has a lot of similarities with Lolita. [the book that was on the table when Angela was being interviewed by the little girl]. She dresses like Lolita and her hacker name is Dolores Haze which is the real name of Lolita in the book

11 hours ago, juliet73 said:

What was Joanna looking at on the phone?  What ever happened to location the phone was tracked to last week? 

The bodyguard took a picture of the map on the computer when Elliot  had the police ping the location of the cell phone. He showed that to Joanna.

11 hours ago, green said:

This was just part 1 of this episode.  See the title above - basically reads "Python" - part 1.  Next week is "Python" - part 2 aka the conclusion of the episode.  So the write-up was for the episode on the whole and not just the first part only I'd guess.

Name of ep is refers to python, a general purpose programing lang created in the late 1980s, and named after Monty Python

10 hours ago, green said:

Was the address last week 28th Street too?  Is Tyrell's heavy breathing phone with Tyrell then?  The area he and Elliot got dumped at didn't look upscale in that shot.

I googled as I watched last night. 25th & 8th is the FIT musuem but also near condos in Chelsea. The Wellick's live in Chelsea

5 hours ago, loki567 said:

The Angela storyline is making me nervous. I think Portia Doubleday is a pretty piss poor actress. She's been tolerable because she's been getting some decent storylines that didn't necessary fall in the usual Love Interest trap but now both Elliot and Price are in love with her and that could have GLOBAL implications? And now we need WhiteRose to marvel at the wonder that is Angela Moss as he tries to recruit her? No good. 

I don't think Angela's purpose is "the love interest".  That would be too obvious. I definitely don't think Price is in love with her. I think he sees her as a useful pawn. In fact I'm not so sure Elliot is in love with her either. I think she just happens to be one of his few links to his childhood.

----

I just rewatched and I have just as many questions as answers. I haven't read any other blogs or checked reddit so for now I'll just bullet my thoughts.

• Elliot's says his friend Sam taught him lucid dreaming. Is Sam his hacker alter ego Sam Sepiol or Esmail being clever and referring to himself?
• I had remarked on twitter that red seemed to be a signal of some sort. Elliot named his notebook "red wheel barrel" and as we saw he left himself a message on the Red Barrell BBQ menu.
• Red wheel barrel is also the title of a poem by William Carlos Williams. A poet and pediatrician who was born in Rutherford,NJ. Dom is from Rutherford. Williams style of writing is known as metaphysical poetry.
• More and more I'm getting a sort of time trippy vibe off this show. It reminds me a little of LOST. We had 3 songs from Back to the Future in it. The room Angela was tested in had a  computer from the 80's.
• On the other hand the power play going on between Price and WhiteRose remind me of those old Ray Harryhausen in which the gods play with humans like pieces on a chessboard. It's like Price and WhiteRose are fighting to see who rules. WhiteRose in particular seems to want to recreate the world anew as a way to better humanity.
• I also got the similarities between Ray's website and what Price is trying to do with the bitcoin currency. The biggest red flag for me was Price telling the DC guy that it would be regulated by good old USA or something like that.
• I don't think Tyrell is one of Elliot's alters, but I do think Tyrell is work with/for WhiteRose.
• Chamber and Church is near where the World Trade Center used to be.
• Why is Tyrell's accent different at the end?

Edited September 15, 2016 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

27 minutes ago, Cardie said:

Given Whiterose's obsession with time and the music cues from Back to the Future, I wonder if her Washington Township Project involves the invention of time travel. Not that I think this is the sort of show in which she could succeed, but it strikes me as a fantasy she might nurture and believe she could accomplish through force of will.

I definitely get a LOST/BAck to the Future vibe. I also wonder if Elliot's dad intentionally exposed himself to something at the plant. When they took Elliot ot the doctor after he pushed him out the window, the mother was fussing about the doctor bill and he said,"we won't have to worry about the bill."

I also wonder if those pictures with the faces marked out as Angela was in that house are pictures of the families of the plaintiffs in the Washington Township case.

[Cardie]

11 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Why is Tyrell's accent different at the end?

Because he is attempting--and failing at--an impression of Humphrey Bogart who said that line at the end of Casablanca.

Chambers and Church is not only near Ground Zero but also in the heart of the financial district.

[Milaxx]

No not that bit. From the moment he steps in the cab, his voice sounds different to me. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his accent doesn't sound as heavy. The best way to describe it would be how foreign actors who move to the States to work start to sound. They still have a slight accent, but overall it sounds more American.

[greenbean]

What a snoozefest! I'm normally a fan of Angela, but I just did not care for her scenes, or where her story seems to be going.

And Dom is a character I can do without. I don't want to see her mastrubate or talk to Alexia. Her scenes are so meandering and dull.

The best characters were absent.

Where was Darlene? I assume she's still alive, and she's the one Dom wants to interview.

Things really picked up when Elliot switched places with Mr Robot and was the observer, that was cool. As was watching them decipher the code.

Tyrell is finally back, but I'm worried he's a persona. I also thought the way he was dressed was weird. If he's been in hiding, why be suited up? I'm still going to hope that he's real.

29 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

No not that bit. From the moment he steps in the cab, his voice sounds different to me. I don't know if it was intentional or not but his accent doesn't sound as heavy. The best way to describe it would be how foreign actors who move to the States to work start to sound. They still have a slight accent, but overall it sounds more American.

It seems the actor is going for a more American accent, which is a shame. His accented voice is better and suits the character more.

[Milaxx]

Nothing is accidental on this show. If the accent is different, it's intentional. One thing I've learned from this show is a lot of time what the actors are saying is often not the complete truth. You need to look at surrounding and other cues as to what's happening. Tyrell's accent change likely means something, I just don't know what.

[hincandenza]

I really liked this episode, and am kind of sad there's only one episode left because these last few have left me really wanting more; I'm hoping that the finale will have at least some clear next-stage reveal to tide us over, such as what exactly is phase 2.  Maybe it's because I was hitting the ol' sativa vape pen a bit, but the dreamy state worked for me this week (when sometimes it is more frustrating).  I thought the Angela segments were intriguingly surreal, and I too got not only a Lost/Time Travel vibe (seems like we all immediately noticed the multiple BttF song references; usually I miss the musical cues until people point them out), but also a possibility of "We're in a simulation"; that the next-level of humanity WhiteRose is talking about is breaking out or taking control of the simulation we're living in.

I guess I'd say about this show that it is one-of-a-kind in terms of visuals and mood- nothing else I watch is quite like this, although I've been working through "Hannibal" which is also at times more art film than TV drama- while also feeding that itch I have for wacky-conspiracy-supernatural stories like "The Illuminatus Trilogy", "X-Files", "Fringe", etc.  When I don't like the show, it's because that balance is upended: we get too little of the conspiracy progress for all the artiness, but that seems to be corrected the last few weeks.  Big things have happened, and things do seem to be slowly unveiled (but alas, with only one episode left this year).

Price seems to be all about power, but in a very conventional way; he's giving off Arthur Jensen in "Network" vibes, and I continue to adore his nakedly, tremblingly, evil machinations.  He's so transparent, but he's also played his cards well enough that he's still getting what he wants.  I think, though, he ultimately must fail: he is the "old guard", clinging fiercely to their reins of traditional power, while Elliot and his ilk come along to complete upset the game board.  WhiteRose is still a complete enigma; the hints this week that Washington Township is special/an experiment, while a bit stale (I don't think I'd like if Elliot and Angela et al were part of some bigger plan from childhood, and I definitely dislike any hint that Angela is "special"), do suggest her motivations are much, much bigger than mere money, and have been going on for years.  WR had to have enough power as far back as ~15-20 years ago, to be able to succeed in killing the old E-Corp CEO and set up the Washington Township experiment; whatever her larger plan is, Elliot's Big Picture is somehow dovetailing with it.  I think I need to go back and watch the season 1 scene where WR and Elliott (seemingly) first meet for only a few minutes; that was either their first meeting of many, or they'd been working together for a while, but she obviously indulges his insanity because Elliot, his personas, and his plan(s), are invaluable.

And Elliot... phew, what a mess. :)  He's clearly got at least one persona who has brilliantly orchestrated something utterly massive and world-changing, even though he and we are in the dark as yet.  Whatever it is, Tyrell (who I believe is still alive, which makes me hate the toying with us through that cab ride) was so taken aback he's gone completely all-in, and apparently WhiteRose/Dark Army are invested in Elliot's plan despite his clear mental illness and unreliability as a fellow cabal member.

Stray and very crazy thought as I finish up typing: it just occurred to me, but could this show be hiding something in plain sight?  What if Elliot is actually, literally, Mr. Robot?  By which I mean, what if he is an experiment, perhaps with some cybernetic enhancement put in after his childhood accident (they lingered over the brain scans in that scene earlier this season), which is why he's such a gifted coder- but also why he's unstable/runs multiple "operating systems"?  That would make WhiteRose like a William Bell/Walter Bishop making Cortexifan kids on purpose.  Like I said, stray crazy thought... but who knows, this show could end up being part "Fringe", part Matrix, part Greg Egan's "Permutation City".  Almost anything is still on the table. :)

[green]

7 hours ago, Cardie said:

Price wants to set up E-coin as a competitor to bitcoin. Currently only governments can issue valid currencies. Price has foreseen that this is fast becoming an outmoded concept and he wants the US Government to sanction E-coin as a virtual, privatized legal tender, which is currently illegal and unconstitutional. Bitcoin is still pretty shady and Price intends to take over the concept and essentially set up E-Corp as an equal to the Federal Reserve. China, I think, is lending him $2 trillion in its real currency, which Price will convert to E-coin.

Gold's value, like that of precious stones, comes not from its utility but from its relative scarcity. The idea of the gold standard is not so much about gold per se as about there being something of value in storage that corresponds in value to the symbolic currency the nation circulates. (I'm sure someone with economics training can explain this better than I can.)

Thanks.  I didn't even catch it was E-Coin instead of Bitcoin.  I do tend to space out anytime money or economics are in the discussion.  Probably a major reason I remain poor as a result, heh.

And yeah I always got the scarcity thing but why gold per se is what I meant to say but didn't write it clearly.  Maybe because it was soft so easy to stamp with a king's or emperor's image or whatever.  I just like that the Sioux' literal name for gold I read once a long time ago (so could be incorrect) was "the useless yellow metal".  And when the white men came in invading their lands looking for it they added to their term for it so it literally translated as "the useless yellow metal that makes the white man crazy".  Probably not a true story but I always liked it and wished it was.

5 hours ago, eejm said:

I suspect phase 2 involves the hacking of E-coin.  That would explain the involvement of Whiterose and the Dark Army.  Price is trying to engineer E-coin as the only currency with real value, which Whiterose knows due to the circumstances of the Chinese loan.  The hacking of E-coin would truly eliminate all the world's debt as well as Evil Corp, and Price would be essentially powerless.  

I think Tyrell is still a real person and has thrown all of his involvement into phase 2 because he's so power hungry.  Involvement in this would impress Joanna.  I'm not convinced of this, though.  The fact that he's still dressed impeccably suggests that Tyrell might be dead and Elliot is seeing him in his "familiar" form, much as he sees Mr. Robot as how his dad always looked.

Okay Tyrell's dress was a bit odd I grant you.  Especially for someone in hiding for three months.  But storywise he has to be alive or otherwise the whole show devolves into a puddle of absurdity for me.  Maybe the best way not to be spotted running around the financial district is to dress the part and not look like a Mobley type on the lamb. 

And I hope Mobley made it to Arizona was it he wanted to flee to but wonder if it is him and not Darlene that Dom is suppose to interview in a few hours though Darlene makes more sense.  But where then is missing Mobley?  Is Trenton still sitting at Ron's Coffee waiting for him?  My weird sense of humor wants a cameo in every episode going forward of Trenton still sitting at Ron's Coffee checking her watch.  Even if they jump ahead a year or something.

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Name of ep is refers to python, a general purpose programing lang created in the late 1980s, and named after Monty Python

I googled as I watched last night. 25th & 8th is the FIT musuem but also near condos in Chelsea. The Wellick's live in Chelsea   ...

• Chamber and Church is near where the World Trade Center used to be

 

Thanks for the python bit.  I kind of sort of vaguely remember it now but only because you jogged my mind.  Hmmmm weird Tyrell is near his old haunts while his cell phone is off heavy breathing near/at Knowles' home.  So the set-up for phase 2 is in the heart of the financial district.

3 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I also wonder if those pictures with the faces marked out as Angela was in that house are pictures of the families of the plaintiffs in the Washington Township case.

There was so much in this episode I already half forgot the pictures on the wall.  Good catch and idea about the pictures.  If Whiterose's project was responsible for their deaths is she trying to turn them into non-people by covering their faces or trying to point out her guilt?  And I'm starting to think Whiterose makes Elliot look totally sane and sensible by comparison.  A Commodore 64 and a little girl reading a text adventure game to get Angela to think about a key for a door? 

Doors and time, geez.  I really hope it isn't the time experiment stuff some of you are postulating.  Whiterose is already unhinged enough without turning her into a Dark Army lunatic version of Doctor Who.  At least Price is semi-plausible so can perk up my paranoia about what goes on with the 1% crowd.  But if we go too far out it just turns into harmless fantasy and loses any real visceral semi-real modern day feel to it for me.  I just find paranoia and danger over something that could possibly be real (in a fictional dramatic way) far more scary than fantasy things that go bump in the night.

I also agree with some other posts above by being bored out of my tree with the long, endless Dom self-pity scene with her phone.  We really really need to go back to an era when our phones weren't enablers for weird soliloquies.

Edited September 15, 2016 by green

[meep.meep]

Dom is talking to Alexa, the Amazon thing, not her phone.  Just means Esmail sold out to them not Apple.

Will it ever be over?  It's turning into Twin Peaks.  I'm sure the dancing dwarfs will show up next week.

[Neurochick]

I have questions about Whiterose.  Is she a woman who is transitioning to become a man, or is she a woman who is masquerading as a man in order to rise higher in the government/business? 

[eejm]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I have questions about Whiterose.  Is she a woman who is transitioning to become a man, or is she a woman who is masquerading as a man in order to rise higher in the government/business? 

Neither exactly, although you're close on the latter.  Whiterose is a transgendered woman who lives as such in her private life.  She lives publicly as her biological sex (and her birth name, I'd guess), sort of like a disguise.

Edited September 15, 2016 by eejm

[Cardie]

37 minutes ago, green said:

And yeah I always got the scarcity thing but why gold per se is what I meant to say but didn't write it clearly.  Maybe because it was soft so easy to stamp with a king's or emperor's image or whatever. 

I wish I had paid more attention to the placards at a museum exhibit on the history of money! The softness could indeed be a factor, plus the stuff is pretty and shiny, a lure for most of the animal kingdom.

[Cardie]

13 minutes ago, eejm said:

Neither exactly, although you're close on the latter.  Whiterose is a transgendered woman who lives as such in her private life.  She lives publicly as her biological sex (and her birth name, I'd guess), sort of like a disguise.

This has been my take but someone heard B.D. Wong on the aftershow say that his take was that she was a biological woman who pretended to be a man in order to gain power in conservative, patriarchal China. If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have cast a woman in the part? Not that having B.D. Wong isn't worth a little plot contrivance.
 

[eejm]

1 hour ago, Cardie said:

This has been my take but someone heard B.D. Wong on the aftershow say that his take was that she was a biological woman who pretended to be a man in order to gain power in conservative, patriarchal China. If that were the case, though, wouldn't they have cast a woman in the part? Not that having B.D. Wong isn't worth a little plot contrivance.
 

Not sure about the after show, but Wong explains Whiterose as a trans woman in this article:

http://www.vulture.com/2015/09/bd-wong-mr-robot-whiterose-playing-transgender.html

[Milaxx]

16 hours ago, meep.meep said:

Dom is talking to Alexa, the Amazon thing, not her phone.  Just means Esmail sold out to them not Apple.

Will it ever be over?  It's turning into Twin Peaks.  I'm sure the dancing dwarfs will show up next week.

Amazon has exclusive streaming rights. The Echo is product placement but the response has always been there. My sibling got one when the were in preview stage and we played around with asking it random questions. I don't mind it so much since it fits into the world where many of the characters are so lonely many of their stronger relationships/connections are with technology.

16 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I have questions about Whiterose.  Is she a woman who is transitioning to become a man, or is she a woman who is masquerading as a man in order to rise higher in the government/business? 

@eejm is correct. On The Verge after show BD stated that he is playing a transgendered woman who lives as a man in her professional life.  Here's the original episode on The Verge. 

I have a question.Has anyone tracked the timeline as to when Angela should have been killed according to WhiteRose's calculations? Was that around the time when Gideon was killed?

Edited September 16, 2016 by Milaxx
Link updated BD comes out around 11:35 mark

[Cardie]

Whoever posted here that she was biologically a woman must have misinterpreted. Glad to have that cleared up as I had never doubted that she was trans.

[shapeshifter]

23 hours ago, kat165 said:

Cardie, I love that third person theory taking on Tyrell's persona...

...I also thought that the testing of Angela was so Blade Runner like, one of my favorite movies (one of my favorite pc games). For the most part I do like the slow, art movie style of some of the filming in this but with Angela it's always slow moving & always arty/oblique and I find myself nodding out during her parts. Her acting combined with the slowness is just deadening. Mostly I think I just don' t have any patience for like the zombie like performance of the actress....

I finally figured out why I don't mind the slow Angela scenes. I have been a realistic portrait artist since I was 10 (53 years ago) so I watch her as a model whose persona I will capture.

I'm wondering if Tyrell is in a coma somewhere, and Elliot is channeling him, so to speak, based on his knowledge of Tyrell. The Mantra of "the mind is awake; the body is asleep" that Elliot did in hopes of bringing Mr. Robot to life (again, so to speak) seems to have inadvertently triggered Tyrell to take the place of Mr. Robot in Elliot's mind. We see Mr. Robot and Elliot both pass the poster in the fair grounds that is the same fist that holds Angela's key in her locked room. Then Mr. Robot disappears, and Tyrell seems to take his place in Elliot's mind.

Maybe rather than time travel, White Rose's project has more to do with telepathy, that is, communication between persons or personalities without an interface, including voice. That would make it easier for a fluid gendered person to change personas without having to change wigs, clothes, etc.

When Angela knocked on the door, it made me wonder if knocking was the key to unlock the door in the room as much as a keycard. I really liked the way the knocking on the door of the friend's door was shot, as if Angela was in another room on the other side of the door because of the way we could see her through the window adjacent to the television screen.

Edited September 16, 2016 by shapeshifter
typos and wordos

[kat165]

Excellent post, Shapeshifter. I like that idea of Tyrell being in a coma. Makes perfect sense with what we saw. I'll have to think more about the WhiteRose hypthesis which is intriguing.

[Milaxx]

Just did the math. According to WhiteRose Angela was supposed to die on 5/9. Elliot did the hack on 5/9, "lost" 3 days, then was arrested, arraigned & jailed in "less than 24 hours" according to Leon. That make me question Price's reasoning for giving her a job. 

I'm even more puzzled by the Lolita book as a clue. Angela quotes from it when asked where is the key. I've bolded what Angela actually says. The quote is, “And she was mine, she was mine, the key was in my fist, my fist was in my pocket, she was mine.” Yet it's Darlene who dresses like Lolita and has the character's name as her hacker name.

[shapeshifter]

10 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

...I'm even more puzzled by the Lolita book as a clue. Angela quotes from it when asked where is the key. I've bolded what Angela actually says. The quote is, “And she was mine, she was mine, the key was in my fist, my fist was in my pocket, she was mine.” Yet it's Darlene who dresses like Lolita and has the character's name as her hacker name.

Maybe that was enough justification to mention Darlene in the episode description? When Dom was first at home in a darkly lit room, slipping her shirt over her head, I momentarily thought we were seeing Darlene, I guess because I was expecting her.

Michael Cristofer did not disappoint as Philip Price — both the lines, and their delivery.

[Milaxx]

I think the episode description was to cover this wk and next because originally it was to air as one. 

[green]

6 hours ago, Cardie said:

Whoever posted here that she was biologically a woman must have misinterpreted. Glad to have that cleared up as I had never doubted that she was trans.

That was me and on the second TV post-broadcast after the show on USA Network (I never saw the first) they had an interview with the actor and I recalled him saying his character was a woman who absolutely hated having to pretend to be a man.  I assumed he had to because there seems to be a obvious glass ceiling on how high a woman can rise in the Chinese government and the Communist Party that runs it.  Also he peed as a woman on the past Evil Corp CEO's grave.  Can't see him getting a sex change operation with Party security not catching on.

Anyway I thought transgender referred to someone who felt they were born the wrong sex from who they really are and have changed or are changing or want to change their sex biologically to match the gender the feel they really are.  But if this character is a woman only having to pretend to be a man to make her way in a male world how is that transgender?

Also why not cast a man.  Remember Linda Hunt is it (?) who won a supporting actor Oscar for playing a man in the film The Year of Living Dangerously.  Actors love stretching themselves in roles like this one.

Anyhow I may have misunderstood the actor but that was what I heard and it really popped out at me at the time because I thought the character was suppose to be transgender up until then.

[Cardie]

Trans people do feel that their true gender does not match biology but a trans woman would refer to herself as a woman, so that must have been your confusion. The interviews the other posters link to make clear that Whiterose is trans; whether or not she has had gender confirmation surgery, she would consider passing herself off as a man as a disguise she hates. Casting a biological male as a trans woman makes perfect sense. It would make less sense if the character were a biological woman who embraces that gender identity but must "pass" as a man to get ahead.

[Milaxx]

Not all transgender people have sex reassignment surgery. WhiteRose may have been born biologically as a man, but identifies as female. It is possible to pee while tucked. 

11 minutes ago, green said:

Also why not cast a man.  Remember Linda Hunt is it (?) who won a supporting actor Oscar for playing a man in the film The Year of Living Dangerously.  Actors love stretching themselves in roles like this one.

Linda Hunt won her Oscar nearly 20 years ago. Since then the trans community has been very vocal about Hollywood hiring Cis actors to play trans role. It's simply not as accepted now that there are out, available trans actors. I think that's what BD was referring to when he said he was hesitant to take on the role initially. It's akin to white actors donning brown face or yellow face for roles written as POC.

[Cardie]

As I recall, the Linda Hunt character (Billy) was supposed to be a biological, cis male. They just cast a woman in the role, I think because Billy was a little person and she's very short.

[green]

25 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

Not all transgender people have sex reassignment surgery. WhiteRose may have been born biologically as a man, but identifies as female. It is possible to pee while tucked. 

Linda Hunt won her Oscar nearly 20 years ago. Since then the trans community has been very vocal about Hollywood hiring Cis actors to play trans role. It's simply not as accepted now that there are out, available trans actors. I think that's what BD was referring to when he said he was hesitant to take on the role initially. It's akin to white actors donning brown face or yellow face for roles written as POC.

Eh I don't buy that.  Gay actors (out or still in the closet at the time) have played straight guys like forever and for some time now straight guys have played gay guys in a serious and non-stereotype way as well.  Same with Lesbian and straight women.  And I've seen Les Mis on stage more than a few times and have seen Fantine (a blonde-haired French woman according to Victor Hugo's book) played by Caucasian, Asian, Black and Hispanic (though Hispanic is not a race) actors. 

And I'm sure transgender actors have played many a straight and gay character and haven't been told to take a hike and stick to only playing their own kind.  Actors shouldn't have to be banned from playing roles different from themselves unless the outer look throws off the storyline like a Black actor playing a KKK member in a meant to be accurate historical drama or something.  Actors live to play roles totally different from their real selves.  That is why they became actors.  That is why it is called acting.

The actor playing Whiterose doesn't look out of place to the storyline and it is a great opportunity for him to show his chops.  I don't see it as "blackface" at all since he isn't making fun of transgender people.  Trying to ban actors from roles like that is to me approaching facist-like thinking so I totally oppose these more vocal people's pov.  I believe you give a role to the most talented actor you can find that will do the role justice.  Period.

21 minutes ago, Cardie said:

As I recall, the Linda Hunt character (Billy) was supposed to be a biological, cis male. They just cast a woman in the role, I think because Billy was a little person and she's very short.

Sorry.  I didn't mean to imply Linda Hunt's character was transgender. Just male.  And Asian (Indonesian).  Just meant actors like to play all kinds of roles outside the norm they usually play and some like Linda Hunt in that role have been outstanding in my opinion.

Edited September 16, 2016 by green

[Milaxx]

You may not agree but it is a very big deal in Hollywood. Many of the trans community were upset over Jared Leto, it's also why they are currently upset over Matt Boomer's latest role . For me it boils down to this: representation matters. We are past the days when gay and lesbian actress had to play straight roles because they had to stay in the closet in order to work.  I think BD respects that. 

[green]

OT:  Then we will have to agree to disagree.  It just sounds like some actors who aren't too talented enough to earn roles are pushing for a free ride to me.  People viewing someone like Whiterose on TV aren't sitting around trying to figure out if the actor in real life is transgender or not therefore if they are represented within the Hollywood labor force or barred from roles because of their trangenderness (is that a word). 

It's acting.  Not real life. I don't for an instant think Hollywood casting agents in this day and age would bar some talented transgender actor from playing a transgender any more than they would be barred from playing a straight or gay or lesbian person.  They aren't being discriminated against if they don't get a transgender role.  They just don't have the acting chops to pull off the role compared to some other actor at the audition.

Back on topic.  The actor playing Whiterose is doing a great job and I'm glad he was not discriminated against because he is not transgender.  I hate discrimination.  And I don't care a fig if the actor is from Mars if he can do the best job in a role in my show.  I want him cast over earthlings not as talented.  It's art.  Just give me the best damn artist you can find.

[Neurochick]

So that means when Whiterose is dressed as male, as she was with Price, she's in disguise.  But when she's dressed as a woman, as she was with Angela, she is her real self.  That makes sense to me. 

Edited September 16, 2016 by Neurochick