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I recently retired and have been (semi-mindlessly) binging a lot of shows I missed over the years. Most I could barely remember the plot after a few weeks, but this one has stuck with me. So touching, true, and poignant.

Looking back, I wonder if Tig deliberately wrote Bill's character to be so relatable, or if the actor brought more nuance and heart to the role than she expected? I'm in his age cohort and figured I responded to him more because of that, but he seems to have resonated with a lot of viewers.

I'm eager to see what the next season will bring. It will probably be more of a "city person vs small town" kind of comedy, along with Tig's relationship, but I hope Bill continues to be a major character.

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3 hours ago, paramitch said:

I do empathize with Tig -- I worked really hard to get rid of my Southern accent (part of this was helped by living part of the time with my Dad, a Navy officer, with whom we'd be transferred all over the world), succesfully had zero accent into my thirties, then went back home about 12 years ago to help my stepdad and then mom through two successive terminal illnesses, and for whatever reason, this time I haven't quite been able to shake the accent again. So now it still comes out if I'm angry (or drinking).

I have the unfortunate unconscious habit of picking up whatever accent I'm around (even picked up a thick scottish brogue one summer). My father and his family are from Mississippi, but like you I lived all over, being an Army brat. Generally speaking, I have a neutral accent, but my husband can always tell when I'm on the phone with my relatives, because the drawl comes out.

As for actors and accents, I far prefer that they don't try, if they don't have the ear. Better to hear none than one that makes you cringe.

Edited by Clanstarling
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7 hours ago, Lord Donia said:

Looking back, I wonder if Tig deliberately wrote Bill's character to be so relatable, or if the actor brought more nuance and heart to the role than she expected? I'm in his age cohort and figured I responded to him more because of that, but he seems to have resonated with a lot of viewers.

I'm in my 30s and I was able to relate to Bill. Maybe because my father is similar, he presents himself as stoic and taciturn but is actually very sensitive and caring, and he shows that through actions rather than words.

ETA: I watched Tig's Netflix special, and it does seem that she loves her real-life stepfather very much. So I think you're right that she deliberately wrote him to be relatable/likable.

Edited by chocolatine
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Notaro is a stand-up comedian, not a full-time actress, and I think that has to be taken into account. My feeling about her character is that although we're watching her move through these events she's also kind of a narrator of them, and that made her slight stiffness work for me. I thought Tig and Remy together were great: they immediately lapsed into the kind of silly, parent-scoffing giggles they probably engaged in as children, which seemed quite natural to me.

I loved all of it.

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I know Bill is portrayed as anal retentive and I thought his separate fridge shelves were over the top but he was spot on about loading the dishwasher! It makes no sense not to properly load a dishwasher; it's the same amount of work either way. And a total waste to run it improperly loaded so that the dishes don't get clean. It is more offensive to me to improperly load a dishwasher than it is to leave dirty dishes out. Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

I love Bill and Felicia together and I hope they can make it work. I love this show. I tried not to binge watch it since there are only 6 episodes a season but once I got to episode 3, I watched the rest in one sitting.

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9 hours ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I know Bill is portrayed as anal retentive and I thought his separate fridge shelves were over the top but he was spot on about loading the dishwasher! It makes no sense not to properly load a dishwasher; it's the same amount of work either way. And a total waste to run it improperly loaded so that the dishes don't get clean. It is more offensive to me to improperly load a dishwasher than it is to leave dirty dishes out. Sorry, I had to get that off my chest.

So true! But after portraying Bill for two seasons as seriously over-the-top anal retentive, I am SO GLAD they actually addressed the way his father's crimes against the family may have deeply affected him. Bill's massive over-reactions to small offenses (excluding the dishwasher thing, of course), while they can be endearing, make a lot of sense from a man who's entire foundation of family, security, trust, and control was violently upended. What we dismiss as just "Bill being Bill" could very well be part of a deeply ingrained coping strategy for unexamined control issues. After all, while it's certainly a natural aspect of his personality, if he had been THIS uptight before learning about his father's betrayal, he likely wouldn't have been able to marry Tig and Remy's free-spirited mom.

I absolutely LOVED this season for the way it tackled sexual assault issues head-on. While last season, Tig's molestation was acknowledged and explained, but not really explored... it was more like something that happened in the past that no one denied, but didn't really want to talk about. Seeing the way those assaults affected not only Tig, but also Bill and Remy, and their abilities to form healthy relationships with other people, was so powerful, and very poignant against the backdrop of gender-related assaults in general. Because like Kate and her history of predatory encounters, so many of us have similar stories of inappropriate intimacy that we have shrugged off, or been told was "boys being boys", or tried to ignore and get on with our lives... but these things mean something, and they inform who we are as individuals and as a culture. And they are extremely difficult to talk about, so I applaud Tig and the whole team for taking this on and hitting it out of the park.

And, because it can't be said enough...

"I tricked them! They let me in! I'm gay! I'm gay!"

Edited by Slovenly Muse
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On 08/09/2017 at 2:44 PM, gesundheit said:

Watched the first episode and a half this morning. So good! I absolutely LOVE Ms Felicia Hollingsworth, what a great new character.

Yes! I still can't believe that was Sheryl Lee Ralph- it was a real departure from the kind of role she normally plays, but she nailed it. I  loved every scene she was in, and there was just something about Felicia's extremely precise way of talking that I got a real kick out of. 

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Last night, I thought I'd watch  ep 1 of season 2, then go to bed.  Instead....I binged the whole season.  What a great show!  In addition to the addition of Felicia, I think I like Desiree.  At first I thought she was maybe a grifter, but she grew on me.  While she has some questionable views, her heart seems good. 

Edited by CouchTater
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On 9/9/2017 at 6:05 PM, Slovenly Muse said:

Because like Kate and her history of predatory encounters, so many of us have similar stories of inappropriate intimacy that we have shrugged off, or been told was "boys being boys", or tried to ignore and get on with our lives... but these things mean something, and they inform who we are as individuals and as a culture. And they are extremely difficult to talk about, so I applaud Tig and the whole team for taking this on and hitting it out of the park.

Totally! That was why I loved loved loved the part where Kate and Tig went to report Kate's harassment at work and their boss (?) asked Kate if she tried to leave or if he had blocked the door. Whenever there is some type of sexual assault or harassment, the abuser always gets excuses made for him, even by people who are ostensibly on the victim's side. The boss went on about how horrible it was but still questioned Kate as if it were up to her not to be harassed, rather than up to her harasser. It reminded me of when I told a male friend how someone masturbated in front of me at the laundromat and the first thing he said was, "Was it after dark?" As if when the sun goes down, it's all of a sudden acceptable to masturbate in front of me without my consent. I was in a well-lit public place too!  It's not like I was going around looking for someone to harass me by doing my laundry. I was just trying to live my life. But still, I had to experience the harassment AND hear what I did wrong to bring it on. The whole thing just rang so true to me, with Kate's freezing in the moment, the boss' reaction, and the lack of recourse.  

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God, I love this show. I know Amazon is in the middle of a big purge in their TV department and they are cutting shows left and right, and boy do I hope that this show survives the purge and we get another season.

Bill really is one of the best characters on TV. And I love how they are slowly peeling back the layers and they are getting to the effect his father's actions had on him, and not just on Tig and Remy (and I'm glad they are addressing the effect it had on Remy head on as well). I hope Bill can find the courage to go to therapy to keep Felicia around, because Felicia is awesome. I would love to see her family again too - that little bit from her daughter's wedding was really entertaining.

Desiree is a nice person, but man, I could not live with her. I'm surprised Bill hasn't broken out in hives from having her in the house. 

And I liked the way they tackled the thing with Kate and Jack head on, and yes, sadly Ezra's reaction is all too typical. The storyline is also clearly meant to echo the real world and the rumors surrounding Louis C.K. (he is rumored to have basically done what Jack did to Kate on more than one occasion with more than one woman). I think he and Tig have had a falling out of sorts over it, but it must be super-awkward as his production company still produces the show.

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9 hours ago, CouchTater said:

Last night, I thought I'd watch  ep 1 of season 2, then go to bed.  Instead....I binged the whole season.  What a great show!  In addition to the addition of Felicia, I think I like Desiree.  At first I thought she was maybe a grifter, but she grew on me.  While she has some questionable views, her heart seems good.

I actually found myself surprised by how much I liked Desiree too! I thought for sure they were just setting her up for heartbreak, and that Remy's "performance issues" meant that he wasn't attracted to her physically, and that he didn't really LOVE her, he just loved the idea of having a family - I was waiting for one of them to realize it and trying not to get attached in the meantime. But by the end, their relationship actually comes into focus... his distance from her isn't because he doesn't find her physically attractive, it's because the sexual interference he suffered as a child has affected his ability to be intimate with women in general! His "not in front of the baby" line isn't an excuse, it's an anxiety born from what was done in the room with him when he was young.... And she kind of gets it, and he kind of gets it, and gosh darn it, I think these two crazy kids might just make it work! And I know, Desiree is A LOT! She's pushy, and loudmouthed and direct... but she's very goodhearted, and even when others found her intrusive (like Bill and his thermostat), she wasn't actually BEING inconsiderate, they all just hadn't adjusted to each other yet. And for all her kooky views, I really liked that she didn't seem to have a problem with Tig being gay. She may have had some inaccurate assumptions, based on her conversation with Kate, but didn't seem to harbour any hostility or judgment. I have no problem with people who believe things I don't, like dinosaurs weren't real, or dinosaurs were real during Christ's lifetime, or whatever (I know someone who disbelieves in the moon landing), but once they start disrespecting other people's basic human dignity, that crosses a line for me. I like that Desiree is zealous, but without a hint of cruelty. She and Remy might really be good for each other!

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So glad this show got a second season. When it first came out last year nobody I knew watched it, so I was worried it would be "one and done". I agree that six episodes is short, but I'd rather have that than a longer season with filler and gimmicks. 

Bill is still my favorite character and I loved him with Felicia. The way he turned on the charm with her mother at the wedding, I could definitely see what attracted his late wife to him. I thought Felicia was out of line though to demand that he get therapy. That's a decision he needs to make on his own.

I'm not 100% sure that Remy and Desiree are right for each other. It was very sweet when he told the pastor that *they* already had a girl, but I thought their relationship moved way too fast. He needs to slow it down a bit while he works through his childhood trauma, and she needs to give him the space to do it.

I would have loved to see more of Tig's dry humor, but what we did get - the scenes at the hospital and with the "pray away the gay" people - was hilarious.

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Finished all episodes yesterday -LOVED IT.  

Tig's sense of humor is the BEST.  I just adore her.  I love that her and Kate's real-life chemistry translates so well to an onscreen romance.  I adored Tig's response to her text asking if she wanted to have a date. "Since the first day we met." Awwwww. 

I get Remy and Desiree moving fast.  When you are of a certain age and you meet somebody who you click with, you're like - why wait?  

Bill and Felicia were adorable together, too.  I hope they can work it out .... in season 3 (she says in a hopeful voice). 

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1 hour ago, Duke2801 said:

I get Remy and Desiree moving fast.  When you are of a certain age and you meet somebody who you click with, you're like - why wait?  

Remy is an educated person who teaches high school.  Desiree is a sweet person with many ideas that are religion-based, not evidence-based.  They plan to raise children together-will Remy really be content to have his children believe that dinosaurs are made up because their mom never saw one?

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1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:
2 hours ago, Duke2801 said:

I get Remy and Desiree moving fast.  When you are of a certain age and you meet somebody who you click with, you're like - why wait? 

Remy is an educated person who teaches high school.  Desiree is a sweet person with many ideas that are religion-based, not evidence-based.  They plan to raise children together-will Remy really be content to have his children believe that dinosaurs are made up because their mom never saw one?

While that's certainly something they need to figure out, the main reason why I think they need to take things more slowly is the effect Tig's molestation is still having on Remy. Unlike Tig, he hasn't fully processed what was done to them, and that has caused intimacy/commitment issues between him and Desiree. He needs to work through those emotions before he can feel truly comfortable and settled with Desiree.

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2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They plan to raise children together-will Remy really be content to have his children believe that dinosaurs are made up because their mom never saw one?

It's an easily dismantled argument, just have someone ask her if she's ever seen Jesus.

34 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

While that's certainly something they need to figure out, the main reason why I think they need to take things more slowly is the effect Tig's molestation is still having on Remy. Unlike Tig, he hasn't fully processed what was done to them, and that has caused intimacy/commitment issues between him and Desiree. He needs to work through those emotions before he can feel truly comfortable and settled with Desiree.

Yeah, I think even though they are different and come from different places, they can still be compatible. However, they will need to learn to communicate. When they were being interviewed by the preacher, he asked if they had any other questions. It really seemed that Desiree had something to say and didn't. I think from her point of view, she is concerned that her libido is higher than his is. But we know he has some issues with his past molestation. As SlovenlyMuse pointed out, he had a problem with doing anything "in front of the baby." Clearly being a witness to Tig's molestation had a lot to do with that.

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46 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:
3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

They plan to raise children together-will Remy really be content to have his children believe that dinosaurs are made up because their mom never saw one?

It's an easily dismantled argument, just have someone ask her if she's ever seen Jesus.

She'd say that there were witnesses, as reported in the bible.  No witnesses to dinosaurs.

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1 minute ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:
3 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

She'd say that there were witnesses, as reported in the bible.  No witnesses to dinosaurs.

LOL. Did she see any of these witnesses?

I don't think it works that way; she believes what's in the bible as much as she believes what she sees with her own two eyes. That's why I think Remy will have a problem.

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1 minute ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't think it works that way; she believes what's in the bible as much as she believes what she sees with her own two eyes. That's why I think Remy will have a problem.

Yeah, it's true that some religious people can do some pretty impressive mental gymnastics. Whether Remy can live with it or not is up to him. 

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Just now, ItCouldBeWorse said:

I don't think it works that way; she believes what's in the bible as much as she believes what she sees with her own two eyes. That's why I think Remy will have a problem.

I agree. Having known a few creationists who didn't believe in dinasours you aren't winning that argument because there is no agreeing on the basic premise of the argument much less with facts and evidence. 

I don't like Desiree at all. I find her obnoxious and self-centered and completely inconsiderate of the rules of the household she moved into without permission of the homeowner. A lot of that is on Remy but just because she takes over with a smile doesn't make it okay.

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10 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I don't like Desiree at all. I find her obnoxious and self-centered and completely inconsiderate of the rules of the household she moved into without permission of the homeowner. A lot of that is on Remy but just because she takes over with a smile doesn't make it okay.

It certainly seems like Remy should have discussed it with Bill first.  Even if Remy has his own bathroom upstairs (which I doubt), an extra two people will increase the water bill, and use of the laundry facilities.

I know that babies come in different sizes, but I kept noticing how scrawny Destiny is for a baby whose mother has infinite breast milk.  This has nothing to do with Desirees's body type.  I just feel like a chubbier baby would be more realistic.

Edited by ItCouldBeWorse
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21 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

I agree. Having known a few creationists who didn't believe in dinasours you aren't winning that argument because there is no agreeing on the basic premise of the argument much less with facts and evidence.

You are 100% right about that. However, Desiree herself did seem open to the discussion at the table after she made those remarks. Felicia mentioned her own religion and something about how she thought science was a way to explain the universe. I think Tig and Kate said something too, all of which Desiree listened to and didn't argue with. I think she really listened and let it sink in rather than dismiss it outright. Not that it's guaranteed to change her mind but maybe eventually. There are people who are raised as evangelical or fundamentalist and end up changing their beliefs.

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That was such a great season, I loved it so much. My only real complaint is that its so short. I want more damn it! I guess its good that they dont fill up the show with pointless subplots and annoying padding, but I still wish it wasn't over so fast. 

I knew Kate and Tig would get together, but I really liked seeing them get there, especially bonding over their issues with being assaulted, but in different ways. The whole subplot with the many ways abuse is just a part of society, and how people (even ones that are sympathetic) are quick to defend abusers and question victims. It was really sad, but very well done. I am also glad that they went more into how Tig being molested affected not just Tig, but the whole family. They got into it a bit last season (with Bill admitting how guilty he felt about not knowing what was happening) but this season delved even more into it, especially how much it has affected Bill and Remy. Bill obsesses over control and order, and Remy has serious intimacy issues, and while Tig has clearly spent a lot of time working through her issues, and has gotten to a better point with it, its clear that Bill and Remy haven't given really dealt with it, even as its clearly affecting them. 

Bill gets Woke this season! Love him and Felecia, they're basically perfect for each other. I hope they can make it work! Bill is just such a great character, I can see how he could be frustrating, but he clearly loves so hard, even if he has trouble showing it. 

 Desiree is quite likable, but I do not know if Remy and her will make it, even if they are clicking so well for now. I think Remy wants a woman who is somewhat "simple" as compared to the last woman he was interested in, and Desiree seems like she is just the kind of person who feels big emotions and is very much a people person, so I can see why she would fall in love quickly, especially with Remy wanting to move so fast. They are moving WAY too fast, and I think when they realize that they dont have much in common (the whole not believing in dinosaurs thing) they will have to rethink things. I do like that she is a basically kind person who is very empathetic, and even when she says things that are ignorant, they dont seem to be out of any kind of malice. 

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I thought it was a very interesting contrast between Remy and Bill and their reactions to the potential women in their lives calling them out on their outdated/ill-informed views on race. Remy pretty much peaced out. It was too much for him. Then, he immediately connected with someone who didn't challenge the societal status quo at all. The first interaction he and Desiree have is when his friend basically cat calls her and Remy calls him out on it, saying that he can't talk to women that way, and Desiree assures him that it's fine and she sees it as a compliment. Basically, he starts to try to stretch and grow but the call of his comfort zone is too strong. I think that's how most people would be.

Bill, on the other hand, has a totally different reaction when he finds himself on the receiving end of an impassioned speech about how racism that may be invisible to him is very much visible to others. He educates himself and incorporates the new information  he learns, with the result being a complete overhaul in his world view. For someone his age, I can't imagine that's easy.

For all of their appearances of Remy being laid back and go with the flow and Bill being rigid and staid, when it comes down to it, Bill is the one who is truly open to change when it's important. A poignant example of not judging a book by its cover.

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Bill's rigidity, though, isn't totally arbitrary: he wants things to be done *right*. His rules for loading the dishwasher or sorting the recycling or managing the thermostat aren't random, they're the best rules he can come up with for getting the best effect according to his values - which include an environmental consciousness that the people around him don't really share. And then here's Felicia, who has those values, too, telling him that a part of the world around him isn't right. I think it's very consistent with the character, even though it's also a startling new layer.

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9 hours ago, wendyg said:

Bill's rigidity, though, isn't totally arbitrary: he wants things to be done *right*. His rules for loading the dishwasher or sorting the recycling or managing the thermostat aren't random, they're the best rules he can come up with for getting the best effect according to his values - which include an environmental consciousness that the people around him don't really share. And then here's Felicia, who has those values, too, telling him that a part of the world around him isn't right. I think it's very consistent with the character, even though it's also a startling new layer.

I totally agree! That's why I think it was such an interesting and brilliant way to portray that contrast. If a casual observer looked at Remy and looked at Bill and was asked to guess which one would be more open to social progression in his thinking and which one would be more set in his ways, I'd be shocked if any of them guessed correctly. And yet this storyline showed how a casual take wouldn't be the whole story, and did it in a way that was 100% consistent with both of their characters. Love it!

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56 minutes ago, Nordly Beaumont said:

This person is a writer and editor? I couldn't get through it. Did this story really take a million pages to tell?

I skimmed a lot of it. But for me the highlight was really the passage where she pretty much said that Tig and Nick Kroll had an off-duty police officer killed because she wan't falling in line with the "conspiracy." Oh, and the part where Tig faked cancer, mastectomy and all, just for the "fame."

After having seen the article, I kind of couldn't resist going down the rabbit hole of researching this situation, and I found this video. Which I will let speak for itself.

 

Also, I think this person feels like they are being a lot more persuasive about the situation when they explain it than they actually are. Even after only having read the linked account, which was solely presented by her, I finished it and thought to myself, "Soooo....basically, that was 10,000 words to say that you totally stalked Tig Nataro, then? K. Cool."

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I also saw Tig on Colbert a few weeks back & binge watched this one night last week. Hell, 6 episodes @~20 minutes each is like a movie!

Enjoyed it, LOVE her. Thx to those who said the sound engineer is her RL wife, bc that explains the chemistry!! I'd love to see her stand-up now.

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Tig was on the Jordan, Jesse, Go! podcast recently and mentioned that the only thing fans ask her about is Bill. Heh. Well, she created a great character.

I suppose it's out of the realm of possibility that John Rothman would be nominated for any acting awards since (as the show tells us) the world isn't fair.

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Another fantastic season! I just love this show so much but hate that it's six very short episodes. 

On 9/22/2017 at 11:49 PM, auntiemel said:

It was too much for him. Then, he immediately connected with someone who didn't challenge the societal status quo at all. The first interaction he and Desiree have is when his friend basically cat calls her and Remy calls him out on it, saying that he can't talk to women that way, and Desiree assures him that it's fine and she sees it as a compliment. Basically, he starts to try to stretch and grow but the call of his comfort zone is too strong. I think that's how most people would be.

Agreed. I was disheartened by Remy's behavior at the reenactment thing -- his failure to stand up for his then girlfriend was a let down. Shortly after, he abandons his diet to appease Desiree who encourages him to eat tons of junk food again. And then by the second date, they've moved in together. It seemed to me Remy didn't want to process what was happening in his life and ran to the easiest out he could find. While I don't think Desiree has any malicious intent, I wish Remy wasn't so eager to sink to her level of non-enlightenment in order to avoid growth as a human being. Hopefully, he'll get some therapy and work his issues out. He can do better than Desiree.

Bill + Felicia 4EVR! Take THAT overbearing ladies from the senior center!

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Have just now watched Episode 2. I enjoyed it, but have a major question. (If it has been addressed upthread, apologies; I can't read the posts above this one because the thread is for the whole season, and I don't want to be spoiled.) 

In this episode, Tig is shown as an established radio talk personality on a local Mississippi station. It's been a while since I saw the pilot, but I recall it showing TIg flying in from LA because of her mother's impending death. So, already, one episode later, she has a starring gig on Mississippi radio? Or are we supposed to assume that a year has elapsed between Episode 1 and Episode 2? What gives?

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1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

In this episode, Tig is shown as an established radio talk personality on a local Mississippi station. It's been a while since I saw the pilot, but I recall it showing TIg flying in from LA because of her mother's impending death. So, already, one episode later, she has a starring gig on Mississippi radio? Or are we supposed to assume that a year has elapsed between Episode 1 and Episode 2? What gives?

It's a bit dim in my memory, but after looking at an episode description it seems to me that Tig was using the Mississippi station as a means to to broadcast her West Coast show. I think there was some kind of an agreement, but I don't recall.

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8 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

It's a bit dim in my memory, but after looking at an episode description it seems to me that Tig was using the Mississippi station as a means to to broadcast her West Coast show. I think there was some kind of an agreement, but I don't recall.

Aha! Thanks for this. If that info was contained in the actual episode, I sure missed it. I guess Tig's radio producer--the one who makes such a big point of being "straight" that Tig begins to doubt it--was also flown in from LA? She doesn't seem very Mississippi, so I imagine that's it. I guess Tig must be an absolute LA radio powerhouse to merit having her own producer flown in for the duration, with all the accompanying per diems. 

Edited by Milburn Stone
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No, I think the "straight" MS producer is a local. I can't remember the details of how the MS radio broadcast got arranged, but it could have been something like they made an arrangement to use the local studio and production team. I think that's not really that unusual of a type of traveling arrangement.

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1 hour ago, possibilities said:

No, I think the "straight" MS producer is a local. I can't remember the details of how the MS radio broadcast got arranged, but it could have been something like they made an arrangement to use the local studio and production team. I think that's not really that unusual of a type of traveling arrangement.

Thanks, @possibilities. A good 3 weeks elapsed between when I viewed the pilot and when I viewed Episode 2 (although I'm now hooked), so if these arrangements were alluded to in the pilot, that explains why I forgot them in the interim.

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