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S04.E09: In Sickness and In Health

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I'm on Sonia's side here. As for why didn't she let him quietly work on his computer? They are on a TV show. Nobody wants to watch people watching TV or doing computer work with zero conversation. If Nick was refusing to talk, Sonia has to talk. I'm sure the producers were constantly prodding them for conversation. It seemed to be that we were 'let in' in the middle of something though. They seemed cordial enough before and when we came in on this scene, Nick was agitated and clearly mad at something. I also keep hearing that she is somehow lying about being afraid of dogs because her fear is not at 100. People have different levels of fear. Some people are afraid to climb a ladder but have no problem flying in an airplane. I am fine with well behaved dogs, but I am scared of dogs that jump on me and nip me or scratch me. It doesn't mean I'm lying about my fear.

Tom and Lily seem very nice and appear to be getting along fine-just sometimes they seem to be acting kind of scripted or something? I don't even know how to explain it. Hope all if fine with them. Don't know or care why they are continuing to show Heather and Derek except they need to fill the time. What are they going to do now with two couples on the outs? 

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25 minutes ago, RocketGirl said:

Where is Logan with her fishbowl full of touchy questions when you need her?

Weren't they doing that together with some questions - did Rachel give them those questions? That was when Nick mentioned having had sex in a pool restroom.

Well, that worked (not).

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34 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I'm on Sonia's side here. As for why didn't she let him quietly work on his computer? They are on a TV show. Nobody wants to watch people watching TV or doing computer work with zero conversation. If Nick was refusing to talk, Sonia has to talk. I'm sure the producers were constantly prodding them for conversation. It seemed to be that we were 'let in' in the middle of something though. They seemed cordial enough before and when we came in on this scene, Nick was agitated and clearly mad at something. I also keep hearing that she is somehow lying about being afraid of dogs because her fear is not at 100. People have different levels of fear. Some people are afraid to climb a ladder but have no problem flying in an airplane. I am fine with well behaved dogs, but I am scared of dogs that jump on me and nip me or scratch me. It doesn't mean I'm lying about my fear.

Tom and Lily seem very nice and appear to be getting along fine-just sometimes they seem to be acting kind of scripted or something? I don't even know how to explain it. Hope all if fine with them. Don't know or care why they are continuing to show Heather and Derek except they need to fill the time. What are they going to do now with two couples on the outs? 

I agree - I'm all for quiet time but when Mr P or I are deep into our computer, the other one of us is watching tv or reading or something- not just sitting there.  That's what annoys me a lot with this show- that they just seem to hang out in their houses with nothing to do.  Nick said before his blowup that he'd like to do fun things and get to know each other that way rather than have "deep conversations" and I agree with that wholeheartedly!  So did he make fun plans and invite her to do them and she said "No, I just want to stay home and open up to each other?" and the show chose not to show us that?  I doubt it but who knows?

It's too bad that when he hurt her feelings those two times she couldn't have said something like "I know you're not in love with me - we hardly know each other - but that sounds harsh, and I'll assume you're not unless you tell me otherwise."  It's also too bad the "experts" couldn't have asked Nick what was holding him back and talked them through his problems with her walking out.  But I suspect they still wouldn't have found out about that because he's just saying it now because it's a convenient excuse for him!

For the record I am enjoying Tom and Lily!  There's just not much else to say about them :)

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Heather complained about Derek's smoking. He acknowledged her and didn't smoke anymore AFTER explaining that he's is on vacation and that normally, he does not smoke. And yet, Heather threw that in his face a least twice more. Next, she behaved as if she didn't want to be seen with him or something. I do not blame Derek for telling her how she's seen since she seems to think that she hasn't any faults. I mean really ... she was lit at a restaurant telling someone to "chug" their drink. Heather is a lush with passive aggressive tendencies. If she doesn't care to be apprised of her shortcomings, she shouldn't be so quick to do so to others.

As for Nick, he's a ... I want to say narcissist but I don't think that's quite it - .  His mom asked Sonia how he'd treated her and said that she would speak to him about his failure to mention what he thought of her looks and this was at the wedding!  In his tirade, he tried to present himself as someone who's been engaged in this process; he has not been. Not at all. The other thing, though I'm a dog lover, I don't relish the thought of a face smelling of dog spit in my bed. That he allows those dogs to wash his face is a bit much.  I don't believe that any sane man would expect his BRIDE to be happy to share their bed with his dogs. He is selfish, self-centered, and a ... I can't put my finger on it.

Edited by Liora · Reason: spelling
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After this episode confirmed that this season is a complete train wreck, I agree with the statement that the "experts" shouldn't be allowed to pair up socks, let alone people. How about the people who make the pairs have some street cred? Let's get a bunch of seniors who have been married for 40+ years together and let them make the matches and counsel the couples. At least then they'd have some credentials to back themselves up. 

Edited by Chilly · Reason: Spelling and grammar. #nerding
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4 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I'm on Sonia's side here. As for why didn't she let him quietly work on his computer? They are on a TV show. Nobody wants to watch people watching TV or doing computer work with zero conversation. If Nick was refusing to talk, Sonia has to talk. I'm sure the producers were constantly prodding them for conversation. It seemed to be that we were 'let in' in the middle of something though. They seemed cordial enough before and when we came in on this scene, Nick was agitated and clearly mad at something. I also keep hearing that she is somehow lying about being afraid of dogs because her fear is not at 100. People have different levels of fear. Some people are afraid to climb a ladder but have no problem flying in an airplane. I am fine with well behaved dogs, but I am scared of dogs that jump on me and nip me or scratch me. It doesn't mean I'm lying about my fear.

Tom and Lily seem very nice and appear to be getting along fine-just sometimes they seem to be acting kind of scripted or something? I don't even know how to explain it. Hope all if fine with them. Don't know or care why they are continuing to show Heather and Derek except they need to fill the time. What are they going to do now with two couples on the outs? 

Don't they go to work? Which means they arent together 24/7. Maybe she got home from work and was hoping he would make an effort and see how her day was or they could start having a small conversation....it seemed like that to me mostly cause she asked the dogs how their day was which gave me the sense that they had not seen each other all day.
The show will never show us the real reasons for a lot of things. We can only sit here and wonder what went wrong or what was said before.

Next to the other 2 "couples" Lily and Tom are really just so different. I really hope they dont crash and burn. So far I don't see any reason as to why they would tbh but it could go out as fast as it started.

Heather and Derek are taking most of the time during the episodes which really bothers me. Let it go. Give us a scene from each person and then move on to the couples who still are together (or in this case one is still together while the other one is on a path of disaster)

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Again, until we know for sure whether it was pot or not, its hard to judge..having to get stoned to function everyday is a HUGE issue for many people. and yeah he stopped smoking and got even more whiney, sensitive, irritated and confrontational.....sort of like he was in withdrawal. she was in a no win situation, and I dont even like her.

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Nick is not a good doggy daddy.  It is up to us doggy parents to make sure our dogs are properly trained, to keep them safe.  In Europe, it is a very dog friendly culture, because people love an train their dogs properly.  In Germany many towns have a quiet time between certain hours and the dogs do not even bark (I always found that amazing).  It pisses me off to no end when I hear a doggy has to get put down because of a bite, when I know the dog was just following instinct and it was either because of the owner's abuse and/or neglect.  I do not mind Sonia being afraid of dogs, it is up to Nick to make her feel more comfortable.  Also, the dogs clearly like her and that is always a good sign in my book.

5 hours ago, julyjen said:

Let it go. Give us a scene from each person and then move on to the couples who still are together (or in this case one is still together while the other one is on a path of disaster)

Does the show really think that using half the episode for Heather to write a letter basically saying, "Derek, I really really really do not want to be married to you, but I hope you have a nice life" great television?  Whether you love Heather and/or Derek or hate them, no one needs to see two single people moping on a show about marriage.  Actually, Heather is not moping she seem quite relieved.  This might have been the worst failure in the shows history, but I am glad it ended before it got to Jessica and Ryan restraining order levels of crazy.

Quote

Stuff like this is so bizarre to me. Technically it's a sweet story but all I'm seeing is dude being called ugly over and over again. Like damn.

This poster is referring to the rather sweet story of the pretty lady being with the not so great looking guy with the wonderful personality.  It always feels like guys are supposed to try and find the best looking woman possible (nothing wrong with that).  However, as a woman I would hate it if everybody thought "that ugly woman is with a guy much too good looking for her, she must have a great personality, if she is not rich" when looking at me and my husband.

I personally think most men know what they like and what they do not.  As a women, we are told looks are so important, but I do not think it is that simple.  The example I use is Prince Charles.  In his youth, the guy probably could have gotten any woman he wanted, just by being the future king of England.  However, he was attracted to and fell madly in love with a woman who does not meet any conventional definition of beauty.  The same could be said for his great uncle that abdicated the throne for the woman he loved.

Edited by qtpye
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I really wonder what was happening while Sonia was packing up her things. Was Nick aware that she was leaving? Did the producers/crew try to convince her to stay, or did they let her go because they thought, "Ooh! Drama! This will be great for ratings"?

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This whole show is fake. 

I have to agree, Nick is there to sell his clothing line.  He thought this show would be a great place to do this.  Unfortunately, Sonia is in this for real.  This is a TV show and you can't just sit around and do nothing for six weeks.  The producers got to Sonia and told her to prod Nick; because Sonia's all in "all or nothing" like the song says, she does what they tell her to do.  I wish people would stop labeling people as "classic abusers" from what they see on this show.  With the right editing anybody can be made to look like anything the producers want them to look like, (yes I did watch UnReal).  Nick may be a classic abuser, but I wouldn't make a diagnosis from watching this show.  I just think that Nick isn't in this show for the "correct" reasons.  However, I thought most people went on reality shows to sell their brands, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think they are trying to make Heather the villain here because Heather refused to play the show's game.  The probably wanted her to stay married to Derek for the six weeks and then get a divorce, at least they'd get their show.  But, as I've said before, Derek probably did something off camera that made Heather say, "no way dude" and she wanted out.  So now the show is making Derek out to be the victim, showing he and his mother; notice there aren't any scenes of Heather and her family.  Where are they?  Where are her girlfriends?  We did see one, but no one since Heather asked for a divorce. 

I like Lily and Tom, but as someone pointed out here, they're boring.  Most folks watch this show and shows like it for the train wreck factor. If I want to see people talking respectfully to each other, I need to watch PBS or a documentary. 

I also knew someone was going to mention how Tom was teasing Lily's dog; folks on the Internet (including myself sometimes) seem to care for animals more than people.

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Fuck Nick's shyness, his mommy issues, his perceived sexuality, his untrained dogs, his awkwardness, his supposed social disorder(s), his Section 8 business and wack ass T-shirts, his reticence, his lies, his random hookups, and his social media personality. He's an ass and I really don't care what the reasons behind that are. But I do believe he probably thinks this marriage/relationship shouldn't require any work at all. He feels the same way about his dogs, which is why they're untrained.

I am curious about this sex though. Who's idea was it to keep quiet about it? Wonder if the dogs were there...

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2 hours ago, qtpye said:

This poster is referring to the rather sweet story of the pretty lady being with the not so great looking guy with the wonderful personality.  It always feels like guys are supposed to try and find the best looking woman possible (nothing wrong with that).  However, as a woman I would hate it if everybody thought "that ugly woman is with a guy much too good looking for her, she must have a great personality, if she is not rich" when looking at me and my husband.

I personally think most men know what they like and what they do not.  As a women, we are told looks are so important, but I do not think it is that simple.  The example I use is Prince Charles.  In his youth, the guy probably could have gotten any woman he wanted, just by being the future king of England.  However, he was attracted to and fell madly in love with a woman who does not meet any conventional definition of beauty.  The same could be said for his great uncle that abdicated the throne for the woman he loved.

I'm the poster who told that story, and I should add that my friend wasn't interested in her husband initially not because of his looks but because she was in another relationship at the time. She met her future husband, they became friends, and eventually her other relationship ended (organically, had nothing to do with her future husband). And eventually he made a move and they got together. He's unlike anyone she dated before, and his looks are only a small part of that (he's older, he's of a different faith to which she converted before they married, their backgrounds are different). At their wedding, the officiant said something about how fate put them in each other's paths and a friendship blossomed that grew into love. If you read emails from her during that time (which the officiant also did), you can see the progression from friendship to love.

Nick and Sonia have gone the other way, from friends to ... not friends at all. I'm really curious to see how the show tries to convince her to hang around. In Sonia's position I guess I could be convinced to not make a decision on camera until decision day, but certainly my mind would be made up. I'd also stay at my own place unless required to be in the rental (do they monitor that?).

Re: the TV factor of not wanting to watch people playing on the computer, I think there's some truth to that. I know in an early season of the Real World, they let the houses have TVs and someone just stayed in the house and watched TV all day. After that they removed all TVs from the house so they'd have to entertain themselves. Also it appeared to be evening when Nick was playing on the computer, so I assumed it was after work and Sonia was trying to have a "how was your day?" conversation (what she said to the dog), which is totally reasonable, IMO. And again, if Nick was doing something important on the computer, he could have said to her, "Let me just finish this up" or whatever.

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15 minutes ago, Soup333 said:

I am curious about this sex though. Who's idea was it to keep quiet about it? Wonder if the dogs were there...

We have a theory that Sonia isn't talking about Nick in that clip, but a previous relationship.

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I find it so sad for Sonia that the best  only friend she had in that home ended up being the little white dog.  I don't doubt she experiences fear of dogs so find it admirable that she was able to adjust to the extent she did.  That dog clearly loves Sonia and seemed sad when she went out the door.  

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9 minutes ago, LazyToaster said:

I find it so sad for Sonia that the best  only friend she had in that home ended up being the little white dog.  I don't doubt she experiences fear of dogs so find it admirable that she was able to adjust to the extent she did.  That dog clearly loves Sonia and seemed sad when she went out the door.  

I agree.  and at the end of the trainer session the little dog went over to Sonia.  Dogs know when a person is inherently good.

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14 hours ago, Blissfool said:

I believe the rumors that it's pot because the cameras never showed him smoking. Surely, if it was cigarettes, we would have gotten shots of him smoking on the balcony  (or some far off place) followed by shots of Heather rolling her eyes thinking "there he goes again..."

And in general there is a lot of circumstantial evidence which does not necessarily mean that he does but it points the needle that way.  He sometimes does have that blazed look in his eyes which was evident in last week's episode when he went to visit his friend and you could see the contrast immediately in the talking head interview where his eyes were wide open and clear.  Even his comment about Heather being from the 1940's would point to pot.  In the 40's smoking cigarettes was waaayyy more socially acceptable than today while pot was completely illegal and the general public thought it would lead to reefer madness.  And in general, it seems reasonable that Heather would be more concerned with her husband that she just met blazing up daily in a territory where it is illegal as opposed to him having a daily cigarette.

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7 minutes ago, watch2much said:

I agree.  and at the end of the trainer session the little dog went over to Sonia.  Dogs know when a person is inherently good.

Is that true?  I mean haven't there been serial killers who had pets, and the pets loved them?

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36 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I wish people would stop labeling people as "classic abusers" from what they see on this show.  With the right editing anybody can be made to look like anything the producers want them to look like, (yes I did watch UnReal).  Nick may be a classic abuser, but I wouldn't make a diagnosis from watching this show. 

Amen! 

6 minutes ago, jamblastx said:

Even his comment about Heather being from the 1940's would point to pot.  In the 40's smoking cigarettes was waaayyy more socially acceptable than today while pot was completely illegal and the general public thought it would lead to reefer madness.  

Yeah, it hadn't quite bought into the idea that he was smoking pot until I heard that comment... It wouldn't make any sense at all to say that about cigarettes. I don't know if they showed that comment before, but I missed it until this episode.

But while I think it's ludicrous to blaze up every day in front of someone you just met and a camera crew (or in general, but to each his own), I still don't really get the intense dislike some people have for Derek. He may be a bit mopey at times, but he doesn't seem that egregiously terrible to me... I'd take him over dour, condescending Heather any day. And his mom seemed cool, so I'll let him have an extra point for that. 

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45 minutes ago, lh25 said:

We have a theory that Sonia isn't talking about Nick in that clip, but a previous relationship.

I can believe this. We'll see.

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8 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

Amen! 

Yeah, it hadn't quite bought into the idea that he was smoking pot until I heard that comment... It wouldn't make any sense at all to say that about cigarettes. I don't know if they showed that comment before, but I missed it until this episode.

But while I think it's ludicrous to blaze up every day in front of someone you just met and a camera crew (or in general, but to each his own), I still don't really get the intense dislike some people have for Derek. He may be a bit mopey at times, but he doesn't seem that egregiously terrible to me... I'd take him over dour, condescending Heather any day. And his mom seemed cool, so I'll let him have an extra point for that. 

He initially brought up the 1940's comment with Heather during the argument on the balcony on the honeymoon.  Seems as if he really loves that analogy. 

As for the dislike for Derek, I was totally on his side until he blew up on the balcony and was nasty to her (she was never nasty in her comments to him) and in the talking head, stated that he didn't find her attractive and essentially she is past her prime while he is coming into his own.  The ridiculous blow up for her non-flirting with the dive instructor and confrontation was enough for me as well. 

To me he did have a legitimate beef about her 'concerns' about him living out of the suitcase and even being too judgy (the Casino/gambling comment).  But he proved to be a man-child who never looked at himself in the mirror to self assess that maybe she did have a legitimate gripe. 

As I said, she probably was way too judgy but in the end she was probably right, and it never would have worked and why continue with the charade.  She looked genuinely shell shocked at the meeting with Pastor McTool the night they got back from the honeymoon (I blame that on the show for not letting them both just sleep on everything and THEN meet in the morning).  She probably is way too picky and maybe just not a good candidate for marriage at this time in her life and certainly not for this type of BS experiment/show.  But neither is he

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1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Nick and Sonia have gone the other way, from friends to ... not friends at all. I'm really curious to see how the show tries to convince her to hang around. In Sonia's position I guess I could be convinced to not make a decision on camera until decision day, but certainly my mind would be made up. 

I won't be surprised if Pastor Shouty blames Sonia since she's the one who walked out.

51 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Is that true?  I mean haven't there been serial killers who had pets, and the pets loved them?

I think the dog respected Sonia and viewed her as the pack lead after the training session.  Nick lets the dogs do whatever they want.

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I have to agree, Nick is there to sell his clothing line.  He thought this show would be a great place to do this.

The bottom line is, regardless of Nick's motive to come on the show to sell shirts, the show allowed him to do it!

If Nick did pay a promo fee (very likely) then that is problem.  No producers are telling him to turn them inside out. Where is the outrage at the show for making this season Nick's infomercial? 

He is laughing all the way to the bank!

Edited by Vinyasa
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1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

'm the poster who told that story, and I should add that my friend wasn't interested in her husband initially not because of his looks but because she was in another relationship at the time. She met her future husband, they became friends, and eventually her other relationship ended (organically, had nothing to do with her future husband). And eventually he made a move and they got together. He's unlike anyone she dated before, and his looks are only a small part of that (he's older, he's of a different faith to which she converted before they married, their backgrounds are different). At their wedding, the officiant said something about how fate put them in each other's paths and a friendship blossomed that grew into love. If you read emails from her during that time (which the officiant also did), you can see the progression from friendship to love.

It really is a very nice story and I am glad your friend found happiness.  The following is not any type of insult to you friend and her story...

I guess I am just sick of the cliche of beautiful woman finds love with not great looking guy, because it makes it seem like looks are the main thing women bring to the table of a relationship.  Of course this is changing, but it is an annoying lie to tell little girls.

I also hate how this cliche has evolved.  A few years back there were a rash of sitcoms where the wife was a conventionally attractive woman and the husband was usually some sort of slob who was also very lazy.  It did not make sense that anyone would look at these guys and consider them husband material.

I know very good looking women (and men) get many advantages in life, but real attraction is much more then physical.

Getting back to our show...I find it weird that no groom has ever been disappointed with how his new bride looks when first meeting them at the alter.  This is not because I think the brides picked for the last four seasons are unattractive.  On the contrary, I think most of them were pretty cute in their own way, but statistically it just does not add up.  This makes me believe the men are prompted to tell the cameras they find their brides beautiful, even if their actions do not match their words.

Just once I would like to a groom to say "She is lovely, but not really my type...however, I am willing to get to know her and hope an attraction will grow".

It is unfair to the brides and audience, because we do not know what the guys are really thinking until it blows up in a really ugly way, like with Nick.

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To be fair though, most women look their best on their wedding day, are wearing a beautiful gown, have their hair done, makeup, etc. I also don't think the show would ever match a woman who is conventionally unattractive. Contrast that with them matching someone like Neil last season who was not attractive at all (in my opinion) but I know some people liked his personality. I wouldn't expect a guy to say a woman is unattractive on their wedding day under these circumstances. I do expect someone who agrees to go on this show and marry a complete stranger, to make some effort to get along with that stranger. Nick and last season's Ashley did not do that. Possibly both Heather and Derek too-but I don't know enough about what happened between them.

Nick has the passive aggressive habit of not saying anything and then blowing up with something real hurtful when he is upset. This is unfair to Sonia. He accused her of walking away but he was always answering her questions in a way guaranteed to upset her. When she says "I like you" to me it means, ok, that is a plus to starting something. He blurts out "I don't want to rush thing" like saying I like you is a bad thing. When Sonia mentions they are communicating a little bit better, he says "I'm not in love with you" like she is implying he is. I can see why she walks away from those hurtful comments. 

I think the show is done besides Tom and Lilly. I don't want to see the Pastor yelling at Sonia for something not her fault or the new expert who speaks entirely in positive quotations. Derek and Heather have nothing more to say unless the show is paying them enough money to pretend to give it another try. 

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2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

This whole show is fake. 

I have to agree, Nick is there to sell his clothing line.  He thought this show would be a great place to do this.  Unfortunately, Sonia is in this for real. 

I agree - but I also have some suspicions about Sonia as well (uh oh me), given she's admitted to an acting past & has publicly mentioned her non profit, specifically asking for followers for it. So maybe Nick was trying to get some business but maybe she's trying to get some exposure/donations. It's not outside the realm of possibility here. It is a TV show & anyone involved could be 'using' it for what it's worth to them. Maybe Sonia & Nick had an agreement of sorts & thought it could be a win-win for both of them but it ended up blowing up in a weird direction for them, possibly from producer interventions... from what people here are saying Sonia has been sympathetic to the SM backlash towards Nick.

Edited by gonecrackers · Reason: clarifications
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24 minutes ago, qtpye said:

It really is a very nice story and I am glad your friend found happiness.  The following is not any type of insult to you friend and her story...

I guess I am just sick of the cliche of beautiful woman finds love with not great looking guy, because it makes it seem like looks are the main thing women bring to the table of a relationship.  Of course this is changing, but it is an annoying lie to tell little girls.

I also hate how this cliche has evolved.  A few years back there were a rash of sitcoms where the wife was a conventionally attractive woman and the husband was usually some sort of slob who was also very lazy.  It did not make sense that anyone would look at these guys and consider them husband material.

I know very good looking women (and men) get many advantages in life, but real attraction is much more then physical.

Getting back to our show...I find it weird that no groom has ever been disappointed with how his new bride looks when first meeting them at the alter.  This is not because I think the brides picked for the last four seasons are unattractive.  On the contrary, I think most of them were pretty cute in their own way, but statistically it just does not add up.  This makes me believe the men are prompted to tell the cameras they find their brides beautiful, even if their actions do not match their words.

Just once I would like to a groom to say "She is lovely, but not really my type...however, I am willing to get to know her and hope an attraction will grow".

It is unfair to the brides and audience, because we do not know what the guys are really thinking until it blows up in a really ugly way, like with Nick.

I don't think the men are prompted to tell cameras they find their brides beautiful, because then where would the drama be? I'm sure the producers would much rather the guy say they aren't attracted to their bride. I just think girls are way pickier looks wise than guys. I actually find it to be the opposite than what others are saying. In every day life, I see in a lot of couples that the guy is better looking than the girl (my opinion of course). 

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I am not on anyone's "side" because I really believe there is more producer manipulation than we realize.  I hope all the couples find happy outcomes whatever their decision.

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Also, I do find it weird that anyone would go on this show in particular to promote their product. Why would you go to such lengths of getting married to promote your product when you can just go on another stupid reality show where u arent tied down to anything to promote it

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Poor Sonia. If I were in her shoes and paired with Nick, I'd cry myself to sleep every night. She seems so sweet and loveable and Nick's personality is the total opposite. He's just kind of "blah" and while watching the show, I've likened him to wet cardboard. There's nothing there! He's definitely a man of few words but when he does talk, it's never anything kind or uplifting. Like someone else mentioned upthread, he's the type of guy you'd have to constantly be trying to make happy, with the reward being a few stale breadcrumbs here and there. 

Sonia deserves better than that. She should be with a sweet, fun-loving guy who appreciates her. And I do think that the vast majority of guys would find Sonia attractive. She has a pretty face, nice hair and a nice figure. 

But then I ask myself, "Would Nick find *any* woman attractive?" And you know what, I don't think he would. Whether he's gay or not, I have no idea. But I could easily picture him approaching a guy (but not a woman) for some reason. 

Methinks Nick's motivation for being on this show was two-fold: Appease mommy by trying out the whole married-to-a-woman thing (she's probably wanting some grand babies) and advertise his $1.99-clearance-rack-looking-T-shirt brand. (Found the Instagram for his brand and it has a ~~whopping~~ 373 followers at the time of this posting)

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3 hours ago, Soup333 said:

Fuck Nick's shyness, his mommy issues, his perceived sexuality, his untrained dogs, his awkwardness, his supposed social disorder(s), his Section 8 business and wack ass T-shirts, his reticence, his lies, his random hookups, and his social media personality. He's an ass and I really don't care what the reasons behind that are. But I do believe he probably thinks this marriage/relationship shouldn't require any work at all. He feels the same way about his dogs, which is why they're untrained.

I am curious about this sex though. Who's idea was it to keep quiet about it? Wonder if the dogs were there...

Couldn't say it better myself, so I won't even try. Team Sonia all the way. I only wish I could meet somebody like that. I think she's so beautiful and sweet. The experts better not to try and turn this around on her. She was a trooper and made every effort with that inconsiderate, self-absorbed asshat and his damn dogs.

Derek and Nicole must be staying on air for contractual purposes. There's no other reason to have them on, and I have no interest in watching them anymore after they failed at the experiment. A major side eye to Dr. Pepper for having them write letters to each other. They didn't even last the duration of summer camp.

Tom and Lilly is the success story this show needs so that it can keep going. I enjoy watching them. Lilly is much more attractive to me than she was earlier in the season. She's been a really good wife so far. Tom is cool too. Their siblings are awesome as well. A total lovefest with this couple. The experts will definitely be giving each other "high-fives" for this one. I just wonder where their picker was with the other two couples.

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2 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I agree - but I also have some suspicions about Sonia as well (uh oh me), given she's admitted to an acting past & has publicly mentioned her non profit, specifically asking for followers for it. So maybe Nick was trying to get some business but maybe she's trying to get some exposure/donations. It's not outside the realm of possibility here. It is a TV show & anyone involved could be 'using' it for what it's worth to them. Maybe Sonia & Nick had an agreement of sorts & thought it could be a win-win for both of them but it ended up blowing up in a weird direction for them, possibly from producer interventions... from what people here are saying Sonia has been sympathetic to the SM backlash towards Nick.

Well you do have a point.  Every chance Sonia gets, she brings up her non profit.  As I said EVERYBODY goes on a reality show to sell something. 

The producers allow it to happen because if they didn't, they wouldn't have a show; they'd have less people coming on than they already do. 

You go on a reality TV show and become a local celebrity for a few weeks and some people are all about that.

So far Tom and Lily are great together, but I don't think it has anything to do with the experts and their picking.  I think it, like most other things in life, has to do with dumb luck.  Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. 

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Have we talked about Tom's bare feet lately? (Loved when Lilly made him wash them before bed!)

Having grown up in Florida, I keep thinking he's gonna get pinworms/threadworms out in the yard. lol

Edited by nexxie
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21 hours ago, Paddywagon said:

What I find strange about Heather/Derek is she said Derek smoked every day.  Derek said he quit after she complained about it. I have no idea who to believe.

He looked like he might have quit for maybe a day if that. He didn't seem to have quit at all from what was shown. He was pretty stoned looking in many THs and other scenes still. I call bs on his its a vacation and how he doesn't normally do that. He looked stoned after the got back in many scenes as well. I do think it was more than this though that was the issue. 

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So Heather had a problem with Derek's weed, but encouraged him to guzzle alcohol the way she did? Okay.

Edited by nexxie
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6 hours ago, LazyToaster said:

I find it so sad for Sonia that the best  only friend she had in that home ended up being the little white dog.  I don't doubt she experiences fear of dogs so find it admirable that she was able to adjust to the extent she did.  That dog clearly loves Sonia and seemed sad when she went out the door.

 

 

   I think you have solved the mystery of why Nick seemingly hates Sonia lol.  Apparently his loyal little white dog,  his best friend, his snuggle buddy adores Sonia and probably prefers her to his master even though Sonia doesn't really like dogs and Nick worships them.  Therefore Nick is pissed at Sonia for stealing the affection and love of his four legged fur baby. How dare his dog bond with her!  Lol

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Just now, nexxie said:

So Heather had a problem with Derek's weed, but encouraged him to guzzle alcohol the way she did? Okay.

Weed is illegal where they live and where they were vacationing.  Alcohol is not illegal.  I think she was thinking she could get on his level if she treated him like a frat boy. She was probably sick of fighting and was trying to lighten the mood.  Illegal vs legal is a huge difference to me. Especially if I had a job where u can be frequently drug tested.  I wouldn't want to be known on TV as the gal with the pothead husband especially if I wasn't into using pot myself. 

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Fuck Nick's shyness, his mommy issues, his perceived sexuality, his untrained dogs, his awkwardness, his supposed social disorder(s), his Section 8 business and wack ass T-shirts, his reticence, his lies, his random hookups, and his social media personality. He's an ass and I really don't care what the reasons behind that are. But I do believe he probably thinks this marriage/relationship shouldn't require any work at all. He feels the same way about his dogs, which is why they're untrained.

Amen!!

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12 hours ago, Neurochick said:

This whole show is fake. 

I have to agree, Nick is there to sell his clothing line.  He thought this show would be a great place to do this.  Unfortunately, Sonia is in this for real.  This is a TV show and you can't just sit around and do nothing for six weeks.  The producers got to Sonia and told her to prod Nick; because Sonia's all in "all or nothing" like the song says, she does what they tell her to do.  I wish people would stop labeling people as "classic abusers" from what they see on this show.  With the right editing anybody can be made to look like anything the producers want them to look like, (yes I did watch UnReal).  Nick may be a classic abuser, but I wouldn't make a diagnosis from watching this show.  I just think that Nick isn't in this show for the "correct" reasons.  However, I thought most people went on reality shows to sell their brands, but maybe I'm wrong.

I think they are trying to make Heather the villain here because Heather refused to play the show's game.  The probably wanted her to stay married to Derek for the six weeks and then get a divorce, at least they'd get their show.  But, as I've said before, Derek probably did something off camera that made Heather say, "no way dude" and she wanted out.  So now the show is making Derek out to be the victim, showing he and his mother; notice there aren't any scenes of Heather and her family.  Where are they?  Where are her girlfriends?  We did see one, but no one since Heather asked for a divorce. 

I like Lily and Tom, but as someone pointed out here, they're boring.  Most folks watch this show and shows like it for the train wreck factor. If I want to see people talking respectfully to each other, I need to watch PBS or a documentary. 

I also knew someone was going to mention how Tom was teasing Lily's dog; folks on the Internet (including myself sometimes) seem to care for animals more than people.

I agree with much of what you say here.  I don't like instant "diagnoses" on the board.  And I think Nick is just a dick.  I think Sonia is here for the "right reasons" and he is not.  I don't have the Derek hate and would like to know what really happened, but I don't think we'll ever get that.  I don't find Tom and Lily boring to watch, but I do find them boring to discuss here :)  and I have no problem with what Tom did to the dog with the glass table- it was silly and I'm sure the dog got his treat in the end.

11 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I'm the poster who told that story, and I should add that my friend wasn't interested in her husband initially not because of his looks but because she was in another relationship at the time. She met her future husband, they became friends, and eventually her other relationship ended (organically, had nothing to do with her future husband). And eventually he made a move and they got together. He's unlike anyone she dated before, and his looks are only a small part of that (he's older, he's of a different faith to which she converted before they married, their backgrounds are different). At their wedding, the officiant said something about how fate put them in each other's paths and a friendship blossomed that grew into love. If you read emails from her during that time (which the officiant also did), you can see the progression from friendship to love.

Nick and Sonia have gone the other way, from friends to ... not friends at all. I'm really curious to see how the show tries to convince her to hang around. In Sonia's position I guess I could be convinced to not make a decision on camera until decision day, but certainly my mind would be made up. I'd also stay at my own place unless required to be in the rental (do they monitor 

I had a friend like that too - gorgeous girl with a homely man whom everyone loved once they met him.  And I don't think he felt sad about it at all because there he was with a hot girlfriend/wife!  

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Wow.... Poor Sonia !!! It was very obvious to the viewers that Nick was never attracted to her in a romantic sense, and possibly not in any sense at all. But that monologue was pretty much laying it all out there ... Sonia needs a slightly older and more mature, bigger, and spicier Latin man.... that is all. 

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I still think sonia should have been matched with derek (1 dog).. And he will intimite with her... Nick with heather i think they would match, she a filght attendant is wouldnt be around much when they get together lot of wine and maybe some small talk.. 

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On 9/21/2016 at 10:53 AM, BunnySlippers said:

I agree. I think the producers have been pushing both Sonia and Nick to get him to open up, and then Sonia's the one who gets flak for it. Because, apparently, she's not communicating enough, but when she does, she talks too much.

When Sonia talks it might not be communicating,. I think the real blow up came because of the phrase "open up" not only does Sonia use it frequently (I am sure under producer direction) and I believe that repeating phrases over and over again can drive you nuts. I look at this show as a bunch of people with outrageous student debt being offered a chance to get out from under it. I never had that debt since I lived in short the free college period. They think how bad can it be, they get a free vacation free temp housing, and meet someone.  and then the cameras start following them , they get the producers in their face a lot. There are obligatory bed scenes. I can see where after a while it can drive desire from you.  And the constant ridiculous counseling can push you closer to the edge. I don't think your average not reality addict knows how bad it can be compared to us regular watchers, And many of us ignore the unreality of these shows.

On 9/21/2016 at 5:11 PM, ChristmasJones said:

I don't think Sonia and the producers would still be asking Nick to open up if he had the ability to relate in a genuine way to begin with. This was not a guy who was open and friendly to start with and then shut down once he got to know her. He has been practically mute since the very beginning.  I believe Sonia's expectations for conversation are entirely normal. I don't know where this whole narrative of her being a "bad communicator" came from, but I just don't see it.  Nick has been like a stone wall all the way through.  We don't see him laugh or show any facial expressions. She is being expected to interact with a wooden puppet, and then blamed for being a poor communicator.

Actually we don't really "know" anything except what we are shown on the screen. And that can be rehearsed or staged one way or another. Just keep in mind, everyone seems to be friends except for Heather and she really wanted out early on and got married several week after the others. I am just amazed at how Derek hangs out with all the others so much, he can't be 100% loser if he spends so much time with the others, unless that is producer arranged as well. 

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20 hours ago, Jellybeans said:

I am not on anyone's "side" because I really believe there is more producer manipulation than we realize.  I hope all the couples find happy outcomes whatever their decision.

I think the most successful couple will end up being Nick and the Pastor after a very "in depth" counseling session in a public bathroom. :)

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14 hours ago, kira28 said:

Weed is illegal where they live and where they were vacationing.  Alcohol is not illegal.  I think she was thinking she could get on his level if she treated him like a frat boy. She was probably sick of fighting and was trying to lighten the mood.  Illegal vs legal is a huge difference to me. Especially if I had a job where u can be frequently drug tested.  I wouldn't want to be known on TV as the gal with the pothead husband especially if I wasn't into using pot myself. 

I agree. I could never be with a pot smoking person. To top that I wouldn't allow him to ruin my reputation in my career

i liked Derek at first- based on his looks then- the pot, the fighting, the nasty woman trashing remarks changed my mind. I am not on the side of hating Heather. I don't think she's perfect but I give her a lot of credit for leaving that marriage and why in 2016 are people supporting a woman should stay in an unhappy volatile marriage ? People are loving Derek and hating Heather on Twitter  just reinforcing Derek' s behavior with women

as for looks between men and women - I could never be on this show. If I'm not attracted from day one I never will be. I appreciate people who are patient and can wait to see if it grows. It has never happened for me

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It gets to me that people are  saying derek= pot... Weve never heard or seen it... Only cigarette ... Im on team derek all the way even if he smoked weed who cares... Did u guys even see how much heather drinks cmon shes the one that started tge chugh game and asked derek if ever did beer bomb or bongs whatver... Imagine she didnt even want to hold his hand and shes afraid if bugs but to the instructor she wad brushing off bugs from his chest thats not correct...

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I still think Nick wasn't really attracted to Sonia on their wedding day but was pressured by his mother (and probably others) to SAY she was beautiful. The old "power of suggestion." His mother asked, "Don't you think she's pretty?" so what was he going to say in front of the cameras? He wanted to be on the show and get the advertising for his business which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't said "I do". 

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i knew nick was weird from the wedding day when he said 'I'm in love with sonia".. what, after a total of 15 minutes? also the fact that he couldn't tell her she looked pretty because it takes time for that to come. Who acts like that ? And then his lack of a personality througout the show actually creeps me out

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Nick said in the beginning he was attracted to Sonia, but the more he got to know her, his attraction lessened.  I wonder if the fact that she is $85,000 in debt and only makes $46k has anything to do with it. 

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He wanted to be on the show and get the advertising for his business which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't said "I do". 

Nick probably did want to be on the show to promote his T-shirts and FYI allowed him to do it.

So that would not have happened if FYI hadn't said "Yes" to the T-shirt promo.

Out of the 30,000 people that applied, the one they wanted on the show only agreed if he could promote his business? They couldn't find anyone else to be on the show without a business to promote?

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I guess I have not been watching as carefully as many others.  I missed the references to the T shirts and the non-profit.

In the beginning and for most of the season, Nick has seemed very inhibited to me.  Most have diagnosed this as homosexuality.  But I think he is just very awkward around women.  It is the reason he needs a drink before he can have a serious conversation. Maybe I think that because when I was young, I was often intimidated, tense, and unable to come up with any topic of conversation with dates or even dance partners.  I did eventually outgrow that, but I must admit that as a young woman, the three men with whom I had long term relationships all were men with whom I never felt even slightly uncomfortable or shy, but with each had an immediate rapport. Nick never seems comfortable with Sonia, nor does she with him.  They seemingly have nothing to talk about...no common interests...and both seem basically quiet.  Somebody has to like to talk!  Nick has a point...most people do get to know each other, then fall in love.  Not too many Romeo and Juliet type couples around; not too many people fall "in love" at first sight.

Sonia also seems very shy and inhibited.  I feel very sorry for her.  She is far too willing to blame herself...for what? being reserved? She does seem defensive about the things she says...her high voice, always rising at the end of her sentences, is indeed quite irritating, and she seems to be expecting Nick to disagree.  I can easily imagine most of what she says being producer-driven and designed, without her realizing it, to irritate Nick and thus drive a confrontation.  This really seems like a terrible match.  

I actually think they may both have had good intentions and hoped to meet their perfect mates when they signed up for the show, but this program is actually about creating drama, not about arranging happy couples.  That is why someone who does not like dogs is paired with someone who has two badly behaved ones.  It is sure fire trouble. 

If the producers do not want people walking out on each other before the six week period is up,  they seem to have a terrible track record.  Most seasons seem to feature couples who are not really living together most of the season for one reason or another.  So...maybe the producers are actually batting about .750 in locating couples who cannot stand each other.  The "experts" are hired to match incompatible couples.

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