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S03.E08: Week 5, Night 1

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The cast welcomes a hotly anticipated arrival who asks a desperate bachelorette for a date; insecurities test one couple's limits and cause them to reconsider their relationship.

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I think Lace is drunk most of the time, that's half the problem.

Andi has to be laughing her ass off watching Josh on this show. The way Josh confronted the group he put them in a position where people don't dare speak up, but of course he knows that. Now Amanda is promising to never question him because she doesn't want him getting mad, yeah that's a healthy relationship.

Brent makes some weird faces.

Oh crap there goes Daniel, I didn't think he would find true love but I will miss his jokes.

I hate how they give away what is happening next on the show in the preview before the commercials.

I hate to admit this, Ashley and I may have the same taste in men.... but Hanson?!? Unfortunately I think she wasn't too upset with Wells taking off on a date because she figures she can always fall back on Jerrod. I've never been a big Caila fan but I felt bad for her after Ashley talked to her tonight.

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"Almost Paradise" taught me that Ryan and Brett are two different people.

"All Dogs Go to Heaven" because everything in Ashley's life is an animated movie. But prayers to the dog angels produce "Well, Well, Wells!" who is coerced into dating Ashley, with mutual Instagram pre-approval. And the crowd goes wild!! I haven't seen cheers like this since the Final Five took overall gold!

Ashley's not there, but she's STILL all Jared and Caila "taco 'bout." Without a common issue to bond over solving, they'll probably fall apart.

Of course Ashley's favorite band is Hanson! It was either them or The Wiggles. 

OMG, the love wish lantern bursts into flames and falls into the screaming crowd! Bwhaha! Wells, beware the omen! Ashley will destroy you with her love!! She will love stalk you until you combust!

Grant, you can do better. Lace is so cold and harsh to him, then she immediately shows emotions when he's not there. Obviously if she can open up and show a soft, vulnerable side to him and she can show him that she cares at all, they could work through it. But she does nothing but push him away. Eh, why do I care? I stand by my opening statement: Grant, you can do better.

Josh is a jerk. He's concerned that Amanda isn't sleeping in the bed with him because "everyone is making a big deal about it." No, you're making a big deal about it, @sshole. All he has to do is say, "Oh, my bad. Sorry about the mix-up. Have fun, guys!" But of course not. He'll drag sleeping Amanda up there caveman style just to win as alpha male. Amanda, you can do better, too!

I don't know which shocked (with a tinge of disgust) more: Carly saying she's falling in love with Evan or those circa 1983 red lace fingerless opera-length gloves that match her strapless red lace romper. Oh, wow. It's the outfit. It takes a lot to put Evan over the top on the pro list, but there you go, we found the low point to make it happen.

OMG, the whole lamp exchange with Daniel, Izzy, and Brett. "Mine was 60 watt." LOL! 

The producers arrange a Josh Confrontation Strategy Task Force. 

What the hell!?! You can go, twins, but at the very least give your rose to Daniel on the way out! I guess they decided they wanted to tell Amanda their concerns but not have to deal with Josh's wrath. See also, producer prodding, ok, twins you can go but first...

Josh makes EVERYONE come down to the sand instead of him going up to where they're all congregated. That right there was a pissing match move; he calls the shots and gets the upper hand. 

Amanda doesn't want to leave. That makes me question HER character. If she is There for the Right Reasons, to find love, and Josh says let's leave here and continue our relationship, you'd think a mother of two toddlers would be chomping at the bit to get home to her babies with her new love in tow. But, nope, she wants to stay and be on TV and get a free vacation and not have to take care of her kids. I brand them both Wrong Reasons!

You snooze, you lose, everyone but Wells--but especially Ashley and, ooh, Jared, too. The early bird gets the worm from the tequila bottle, and I get the feeling Ashley will take the tequila...or everyone else will to deal with her histrionics.

Wells and Jami were both broadcast journalism majors, have matching turquoise bathing suits, and both love Batman. They already have more in common than anything we're seen so far between any of these other couples.

Caila, you better get the Bat Signal out! You're going to need it before Ashley destroys the resort. What?! Caila is really falling for Ashley's insane manipulations! Wow, and that was BEFORE she said she was leaving and the previews!

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Jami is as cute as a bug, has good energy and nice boobs.   If I were a guy in paradise I would be checking her out.

i don't care if this is all faked.  Ashley is a sucky piece of shit.  If only Cails had pimp slapped her stupid ass.   Jarred's tired ass ain't worth that drama.

And the hottest guy is gone.   Oh well, those commissions on Palm Beach real estate are pretty sweet.

Man that Nick is a cartpetbagger, but he's one charismatic mofo.   Well played sir. 

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Josh is a tool. TeamAndi! And I never liked her much.

At least Nck spoke up,when Josh was raging. Of course he prob should since he caused it. Lol but that josh being all mad at Amanda for hmmm, sleeping? Really dude? I was honestly neutral on him before this show but I cannot stand the sight of him now.

ashley was right when she said Caila threw shade at her with sister comment. Nice passive aggressive move from Caila. Lol Wells does absolutely nothing for me but poor Ashley. Almost hooked a live one. 

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ashley was right when she said Caila threw shade at her with sister comment. Nice passive aggressive move from Caila.

 

That was some elegant shade, way better than calling you a "backstabbing whore" for the millionth time behind your back.

Edited by thehepburn
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The editors are truly earning their salaries this season. Had me laughing so many times.

I'm not usually one who calls out people on reality tv for red-flags, but man that conversation between Josh and Amanda after his tantrum on the beach really had me uncomfortable. First he aggressively calls out everyone, (as noted above... forcing them to come down to him on the beach), then he storms off to pack his bags (ultimatum time for his girl) then he binds her completely to him and urges her to distrust everyone else she knows, including her "best friends" (which... yeah, I have my doubts that the twins are really like sisters to her, but whatever). He's isolating her from any counterbalancing influences. That creeps me out. I wish they'd both go have their dysfunctional relationship off my screen. And seriously... she needs a wake up call. Maybe her mother could deliver one.

And Nick continues to be the BIP MVP.  :-D

Edited by CalamityBoPeep
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As the Josh/Nick quarrel was going on and everyone had kind of wondered off into little concerned, upset groups did anyone else notice the diss Lace threw at Caila or am I just imagining it? When they showed the group standing on the stairs talking Caila walked up past them and told them she was going to bed. Lace said something dismissive and Caila said, "ok sorry" or something to that effect. After she was out of earshot Lace said, "I can't stand her". It was even spelled out on the screen or I would have probably not noticed it as she didn't say it real loud.  She could have been talking about someone else and the editors cleverly put it in just as Caila left but if not, wow. I'm just curious if anyone else noticed it.

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@yorklee2 she totally said it! I watched it twice over (that moment not the show). Makes sense to the context of some of her Cosmo articles.

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9 minutes ago, LBS said:

@yorklee2 she totally said it! I watched it twice over (that moment not the show). Makes sense to the context of some of her Cosmo articles.

I'm glad I wasn't the only one who noticed it! I know Ashley I does articles for Cosmo but who are you referring to? Does Lace or Caila do them too?

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I didn't care so much for Caila on Ben's season, but she's become my favorite here.   I've never liked Ashley I since Chris's season but I've come to believe she's a truly despicable human being.

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The only thing I can focus on with this show is Lace's repulsive eyelashes. They are so effing distracting, I just want to yank them off. You know girls, if you wore less caterpillars on your eyes, your own lashes would probably fall out less. All these fake lashes on the women should have their own intro in the opening credits.

Edited by MattDuffysCat
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1 hour ago, CalamityBoPeep said:

I'm not usually one who calls out people on reality tv for red-flags, but man that conversation between Josh and Amanda after his tantrum on the beach really had me uncomfortable. First he aggressively calls out everyone, (as noted above... forcing them to come down to him on the beach), then he storms off to pack his bags (ultimatum time for his girl) then he binds her completely to him and urges her to distrust everyone else she knows, including her "best friends" (which... yeah, I have my doubts that the twins are really like sisters to her, but whatever). He's isolating her from any counterbalancing influences.

I finally watched Andi's season because of all of the book drama. Even back then, Josh was signaling a controlling nature, telling Andi he didn't want to see her with other guys and getting furious about the lie detector test, even after she ripped up the results. (He couldn't stand being questioned, even in the hypothetical.)

Amanda is making the same mistake Andi did. They both had been cheated on and neglected before, so that was their biggest concern. Josh certainly doesn't make that mistake. He hyperfocuses on the woman he wants, which we've all been taught is a sign of love when a handsome, desirable man does it (see Christian Grey, Edward Cullen, etc.).

Sadly, I can see Amanda making her life smaller and smaller to help Josh feel "safe" enough not to fly off the handle.

Side note: Andi totally led Nick on, up to the end, talking about their life together in the present tense instead of the conditional. Like, "Don't wake me up early when we're living in Chicago" instead of "I hope you wouldn't wake me up early," etc.

Edited by huahaha
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When Wells chose Ashley for the date, and everyone cheered - I think they were saying "hooray!  A few hours of not having to listen to the crying and sniffing and snorting! Maybe we can actually have some FUN around here!"

@MattDuffysCat - I agree about the eyelashes.   Sometimes I can't figure out if Lace is drunk, or if her eyelids are just tired of holding those lashes up all day, and are refusing to stay open.    Who am I kidding?  It's both.

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The twins -   one of them had a date, a guy she liked, a couple episodes ago.  They switched places on him, to see if he noticed, and he didn't/  The other twin convinced her sister that he wasn't right for her.  The fact that he could be fooled meant his feelings weren't real, or some such bullshit.   I don't remember which guy it was, but I thought it was idiotic, and of course nothing was going to happen after they embarrassed him like that.   Maybe if each of them had tried independently to have a real relationship with a guy, and not include her sister, one of them would have a relationship develop from this show. 

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I think the twins are enmeshed after all these years... they are basically the best and worst thing for each other's independent lives. If that's even what they are seeking. But I think they both overprotect the other and subtly go about sabotaging anything that might take the one sister "away from" always being there as this one person that is the most important thing in life with that crazy twin bond thing. One needs to move to like Boston and become a brunette while the other stays blonde and dumb on the opposite coast of the country. Or hell maybe one should find Daniel and live in Canada. But at this point they are emotionally siamese twins. Only radical intervention will ever change that.

ETA: Oh and word to Lace having the worst fake eyelashes ever. They are truly tragic.

And also I thought Jami had terrible hair and yet another unfortunate name spelling...

Edited by Wandering Snark
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Lace looks terrible with those lashes, the twins should move to separate cities and have lives of their own and .. Carly and Evan? Really?

I thought Andi was awful but apparently Josh is awful, too. I now don't like either one of them. ITA about the way he called everyone down to talk to HIM rather than go up to them. Who does that?  Also, I hope his dog is okay. Is she? Did she pass away? He keeps mentioning her battling cancer for 6 months, but unless she's passed away, why would he leave her? He always says it as if we're supposed to think he's such a good guy.

Nice of Nick to own the things Andi wrote about him which really were n't flattering. I hope he continues his redemption arc, I've always liked him. Josh seems like a bully and I give Nick credit for speaking up and not letting everyone else take blame. Amanda got to see his bad temper (for no reason, really, since Amanda still liked him just needed some reassurance). He kind of proved it, but Amanda seems like a doormat. Too bad there are kids involved. I don't trust him either.

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Does anyone know what the hint for the next Bachelor was? Mike Fleiss said the last hint would be on this episode, but I didn't catch it.

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1 hour ago, yorklee2 said:

As the Josh/Nick quarrel was going on and everyone had kind of wondered off into little concerned, upset groups did anyone else notice the diss Lace threw at Caila or am I just imagining it? When they showed the group standing on the stairs talking Caila walked up past them and told them she was going to bed. Lace said something dismissive and Caila said, "ok sorry" or something to that effect. After she was out of earshot Lace said, "I can't stand her". It was even spelled out on the screen or I would have probably not noticed it as she didn't say it real loud.  She could have been talking about someone else and the editors cleverly put it in just as Caila left but if not, wow. I'm just curious if anyone else noticed it.

yeah, I saw it. It was a high school mean girl move.  I thought Lace was a POS all nite and that was just the nail on the coffin.

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Ashley brings more make-up on vacation than I own.   I laughed when I saw her set up her makeup case, with the lighted makeup mirror, and placed it on a table which already  had a lighted makeup mirror!

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I think there is more of a need for Grant to be taken aside and warned about Lace than Amanda warned about Josh. At least Amanda and Josh appear to be into each other. Lace is just a bitch and Grant deserves much better. She did totally disrespect him, and then he is the one who turns around and apologies to her? They are only a few weeks into a relationship - if it is this much work now Grant, it is only going to get worse. 

I have never watched this show before, so I am wondering if it is normal for people to leave whenever they feel like it? Not that that is a bad thing. I am totally annoyed though that Ashley was allowed to come back and continue to sabotage Calia and Jared. Since they didn't show Jared and Ashley in next week's preview I hope that means that Jared left. 

Are the people who come to paradise after the first week really a surprise? When Nick told Ashley that Jami had arrived, her response was "Oh". When Jami showed up on my screen my response was "Who the heck is Jami?", and I watched Ben's season. Wasn't she gone in the first week or two? So how in the world would Ashley know who Jami was (I assume there has been more than one in the history of the Bachelor?) unless they know ahead of time who is coming? 

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3 hours ago, yorklee2 said:

As the Josh/Nick quarrel was going on and everyone had kind of wondered off into little concerned, upset groups did anyone else notice the diss Lace threw at Caila or am I just imagining it? When they showed the group standing on the stairs talking Caila walked up past them and told them she was going to bed. Lace said something dismissive and Caila said, "ok sorry" or something to that effect. After she was out of earshot Lace said, "I can't stand her". It was even spelled out on the screen or I would have probably not noticed it as she didn't say it real loud.  She could have been talking about someone else and the editors cleverly put it in just as Caila left but if not, wow. I'm just curious if anyone else noticed it.

I rewound and I caught it. I don't get why people don't like Caila. What did she ever do to them? She at least seems quiet and pleasant, and not a keyed up drunk like Lace can be, or an emotional tornado like Ashley, who pulls everyone into her drama.

Speaking of, I am so disgusted by Ashley. What a selfish beeyatch. I don't blame Caila for wanting to go home -- and BIP isn't worth it if Jared continues to nurse Ashley along and pander to her while trying to romance Caila. If he doesn't follow Caila out of paradise, if he doesn't get angry with Ashley's conniving, then Caila is well rid of that weak, easily manipulated man-child.

Josh is scary. Amanda is stupid not to see it. I really hated how she caved. I can't see what Nick ever saw in her -- she has no spirit, she's just blander than bland.

Wells is a blast, he's a guy I really like, and I hope he chooses Jami over Ashley. They have a lot in common, and Jami doesn't seem like a mental case with a giant mean streak.

P.S. The ugly fake eyelashes are so distracting on both Lace and Ashley. And they keep touching them! Constantly! It's really gross.

Edited by Andromeda
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The whole twin thing was ridiculous from the get-go.  And "if one's safe, so is the other"...GMAFB. It's not like one guy is dating both of them. It would have been more interesting if the same rules applied to them individually, as with the rest of the girls.

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7 hours ago, clubsauce said:

I almost did a spit-take when the twins said they had been there for 5 weeks. Who am I to judge, but oh my god Amanda!! How could you (judging) leave your two little girls (totally judging) for over a month to do this crap?? JUDGING!!! And for that twitchy, sweat-soaked, rage-y, creepy-eyed, oily man? 

5 "weeks" means 5 tv weeks.  The whole thing only lasted 18 days beginning to end in real time.

And who didn't love the "please ask out Ashley I montage"?  Especially when the twin was talking to Wells "No, I haven't found love yet, but please ask out Ashley!"

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So, I think I figured out the mystery of Daniel's blurred swimsuit in the early episodes. I noticed in this one that the front of his swimsuit was clearly retouched in editing...the maple leaf is clearly too light compared to other examples of it we have seen this season. I am assuming his package was visible originally, so they blurred it out. Then they decided to just use some special effects to make it less visible and now we get no blur

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3 hours ago, Andromeda said:

I rewound and I caught it. I don't get why people don't like Caila. What did she ever do to them? She at least seems quiet and pleasant, and not a keyed up drunk like Lace can be, or an emotional tornado like Ashley, who pulls everyone into her drama.

I felt awful for Caila in this episode. Unless she's had the world's best edit, her main crime seems to be that she attracted Jared. Before this season I'd always thought Ashley was an immature but ultimately sweet girl, and Lace was just out there. Now it's clear they both have zero self-esteem and a mean streak. Get out of the Bachelorverse and grow up!

Daniel - again - was the highlight of the evening. The lamp. The spread of "(pause) American" food. I'm going to miss him. Too bad the twins couldn't give him a rose and then leave, but I guess with only a few episodes to go, they needed to whittle down the people left. 

Good for Nick for standing up to Josh.

At the beginning of the episode, was Izzy holding one of the twins in her arms, in the pool?

Way to make me feel old: mentioning the Talking Heads in the same breath as a "History of Rock" class.

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I think the cast is as tired of Ashley as I am.  Caila and Amanda both needed a wake up call about Jared and Josh.  Caila-Jared is never going to send Ashley away and he likes watching the tension between the two of you over him.  Walk away.  Amanda-caving in to Josh is not going to solve his anger issues; there will be a reason he will blow up at some time.  However, enough people have said things to Amanda that it becomes clear she wants the 'love story' and that she wants to stay on t.v. as long as possible (per her very own words).

Lace is a mess and Chad is lucky to have gotten out of that relationship whole.  Grant is in too deep and as long as the relationship lasts he will be the one apologizing and accommodating.  In fact, Grant and Amanda have fallen into similar scenarios.  They are the ones who will have to calm the other down and will bear the 'brunt' of all discord in the relationship.  Oh well, their choice.

However...just get Ashley out of there and never bring her back.

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I wonder if the twins exit was producer driven--somehow I don't think they really wanted to go but couldn't come up with a compelling reason to stay.  I was just sure that Daniel was going to try to pull an "Ashley" and refuse to leave.  It just seemed like something he would do.

I think that the group should have given Ashley conditions for her to stay--the next time she breaks down over Jared/Caila, she's out.  This is ridiculous.

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Lace's behavior reminds me of myself a few years ago when my panic/anxiety disorder wasn't under control. She's either angry and withholding or crying her eyes out. There's no happy middle. In her case, the drinking probably isn't helping. Grant is a kind, sincere person, and he didn't owe her an apology. Lace openly flirted with another man in front of him and then sent a nasty remark Grant's way. She owed the apology to Grant.

Also, I can see why Lace might hate Caila. Caila has perfect hair and a face that is still beautiful without makeup. Word to the wise, Lace: Hydration, sleep, and kindness from the inside out can give you a complexion like Caila's. Then you won't have to mean girl so hard on a girl who's already in the throes of social turmoil.

Caila got gaslighted so hard by Ashley last night. That was actually terrifying. Ashley might be whiny, obsessive, and pathetic, but that girl is not stupid. She's got a masters degree and I'm thinking her major might be manipulation. Despite Ashley's hysteria over Jared, she's clearly got the stronger will of the two. Her ironclad delusions fuel a deep fire and she burned Caila's moral fiber from the inside. It was chilling. 

If Jared doesn't leave with Caila, he deserves Ashley up his ass forevermore. And because it can't be said enough, Jared has the personality of cardboard. I have no clue why women throw themselves at him. 

Ah, Wells! If I were in paradise I'd come straight for you (if Nick was already taken). Poor dude has no idea that the Curse of the Ashley has been thrust upon him. He'll choose Jamie if he's smart. I love that he's an early riser. He looked so cute frolicking alone in the waves. And his Nick impression at the end was perfection.

Oh, Nick. Teller of Hard Truths, Part Deux. He gave the twins his honest opinion and then repeated this to Josh. I have seen Nick do nothing to get in the way of Josh and Amanda. And how refreshing to hear a grown man own that some unpleasant things about him are true. He makes Josh look even worse. Nick's a great baiter. The "or what?" drove Josh right to the brink. I thought poor Nick was getting tossed in the ocean.

At this point I seriously question how Andi could have chosen Josh over Nick. Josh can barely control his anger in any and all situations that go a fraction off course. And Amanda, sweet as she is, is no match for Josh physically or mentally. He could crush her like a bug. I'm not saying he's physically violent, but I'd hate to see him in a house with her and her two kids if he snapped one day. 

I appreciate Amanda saying she's not going to listen to anyone else about her relationship. That's totally her right. But telling Josh she won't question him again is a major red flag, and the seed of a dynamic that is unhealthy. 

Nick's impressions of everyone were hilarious. He and Jen make a sweet, low-maintenance couple.

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9 hours ago, JenE4 said:

Grant, you can do better. Lace is so cold and harsh to him, then she immediately shows emotions when he's not there

 

6 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I think there is more of a need for Grant to be taken aside and warned about Lace than Amanda warned about Josh. At least Amanda and Josh appear to be into each other. Lace is just a bitch and Grant deserves much better. She did totally disrespect him, and then he is the one who turns around and apologies to her? They are only a few weeks into a relationship - if it is this much work now Grant, it is only going to get worse. 

 

Whew, yes!  It's one thing to have an up-and-down, emotional romance but the way Lace acts during the "downs,"  is a big red flag that no one should chose her as a partner and mother of his children.  Last week it was the, "You repeat yourself, did you know that?"  This time it was "Get out of my face!"  We all get upset but not everyone is so quick to be deliberately hurtful.  Run Grant.

I'm not worried about Amanda.  Why didn't she ask the twins to give her some specific examples, instead of crying?  I think Josh is a total jerk -- demanding that everyone come down to where he was for his speech is just one example -- but Amanda, lacking any discernible personality of her own seems to thrive under his huge over-bearing one, not to mention under his huge sweaty body. Just thinking about  making out with Josh makes me hyperventilate  a little from claustrophobia, but he may be perfect for Amanda.  I loved Nick's imitation of her.

Speaking of "low key," I'm starting to see why Jen has gone through two shows with almost no airtime.

Caila is probably right to go home, she can date Jared later and she doesn't seem to enjoy the other girls much.  I noticed, when she was talking to Ashley that Caila had an even thicker layer of foundation on her face than Ashley, which is saying something. I think the heat turns everyone's foundation greasy and more obvious than usual.  

Lace's eyelashes, though, now that's some note worthy "make-up."  I think she's wearing three pairs at once and all three go in different directions, like a wet Scottish terrier.   The weight of them would push my contacts right off my eye.

I'm a fashion moron. I barely notice the clothes, but Carly's red dress /shorts/ gloves combo was one of the oddest things I've ever seen.  She looked like a little girl on Halloween dressed as a "fancy lady."

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And because it can't be said enough, Jared has the personality of cardboard. I have no clue why women throw themselves at him. 

True. He can't even have a meaningful conversation. Poor Caila tries to talk to him and he starts smooching instead of talking. Also, he kinda has fangs.

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22 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm a fashion moron. I barely notice the clothes, but Carly's red dress /shorts/ gloves combo was one of the oddest things I've ever seen.  She looked like a little girl on Halloween dressed as a "fancy lady."

Fancy lady. Love it! That get-up was truly horrible.

Still don't believe anything out of Nick's mouth.  I don't like him.  And Josh is scary. 

I'm not watching this show sober again.  It's just that bad.

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8 hours ago, huahaha said:

Does anyone know what the hint for the next Bachelor was? Mike Fleiss said the last hint would be on this episode, but I didn't catch it.

i did notice that during one of Nick's talking heads, it has him labeled as "Runner-up." I thought that was very odd, so maybe that was the clue to remind us that runner-ups have the opportunity to be the lead? They also had him diplomatically explain that while he enjoys spending time with Jen, she's not going to be The One.

Now if you had told me that he was going to be the lead during ANY of his previous seasons, I would have Wrong Reason-watched the hell out of that! But Nick 100% got the redemption edit this show. He's proven to be likable, caring and supportive to his castmates, and has shown an ability to diplomatically and calmly express concerns to Josh without getting caught up in reacting to Josh's reactions. 

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Loved seeing Wells have fun with Jami.  Too bad they are geographically challenged for something serious but as a paradise fling they are really cute.  

Tonight's episode looks fun for Wells as he tries to juggle 3 ladies!

As for Josh, I really hope he checks himself into some anger management program sooner than later.   What a freakin control freak!

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Lace really shouldn't be in any relationship. She is so immature and toxic. I loved how she insisted that she didnt do anything wrong and when grant finally apologized, she said "It's okay. And um, I'm sorry IF I hurt your feelings." And by 'loved' I mean that I wanted to reach for the nearest barf bag.

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I finally watched Andi's season because of all of the book drama. Even back then, Josh was signaling a controlling nature, telling Andi he didn't want to see her with other guys and getting furious about the lie detector test, even after she ripped up the results. (He couldn't stand being questioned, even in the hypothetical.)

Yup, I called it. I do so love being right. Of course even I didn't anticipate claims of verbal and emotional abuse from Andi when the breakup inevitably came but I knew that relationship wouldn't last and would implode quickly. Even Sharleen, who was close friends with Andi wasn't the most positive in her recaps of the season, about the Andi and Josh relationship. To her credit, she's been diplomatic and fair to him in her recaps this season, with regard to the book.

She basically said she didn't really know him and she knows Andi and considers her a friend so she won't say she's lying but just that she, Sharleen, believes that sometimes two people are just very wrong for each other and bring out the worse in each other. And it's entirely possible that was the case with Josh and Andi. Because while I'm no fan of his, I don't think Andi is any saint. That said, some of his behavior last night was troubling. Josh clearly has a superiority complex, where the world, including whichever woman he is with, must bend to his will.

Just the way he basically informed Nick and Jen that he and Amanda would be using the room was so obnoxious and slightly aggressive. Even when he thinks he's not being, there's just an aggression to his tone. And his clear irritation at this woman for simply going to bed was just insane. I liked how Nick kept harping on that, i.e. who gets mad at someone for going to bed. Because seriously, that is not normal. And then yes, the confrontation where he demanded everyone come down, demand they tell him what they think of him to his face while he has full crazy eyes going on and looking like he'll stab anyone who says a word. And that whole melodramatic scene of him leaving to where Amanda ends up apologizing to him and basically swearing to never doubt him again, the whole thing was just slightly disturbing. 

I agree with others about Lace seeming drunk the whole time. It's entirely possible that's just how she speaks but she sounds like she's always slurring her words. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Kind of hard to laugh at this crap show when it exploits a possible alcoholic (Lace) for entertainment value, and then we have to see Josh being a manipulative douche with Amanda.

If Amanda did not have kids, I might not care. But this is a guy who basically gave her an ultimatum, and instead of her just saying "Well, I'm sorry you're upset, but let's at least slow down and get to know each other better, that couldn't hurt," she promised him she would totally trust him and not listen to anyone else anymore. What an emotional abuser he appeared to be. Great role model for her kids. I hope I'm wrong, but she seemed like the kind of doormat who will always make excuses for his angry behavior and sacrifice her own needs or sense of self-worth to calm him down. (Here's what comes to mind. Future Josh saying one day, "You can't expect me to just sit back and be calm when I did not know where you were all afternoon!" And Amanda responding, "But honey, I was at the kids' school conferences. I told you about it." "Well, I tried texting you, and you never answered! I had no idea where the hell you were! Next time be more considerate!" "Sorry, I'll be more considerate next time. Don't be mad. I'm really sorry.")  Like I said, I hope I'm wrong, because that makes me ill. I lost respect for Amanda just based on last night, though, because she has kids she needs to put first, and to me, that means proceeding with caution in her love life without feeling guilty about it.

Is it me, or has this franchise perhaps changed Wells from being charmingly cautious and a bit young-seeming and nerdy about dating to being--well, not a player, but certainly not being too shy to do some serious snogging with assorted women? Then again, maybe he's always been this way and that was not clear on TB. 

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4 hours ago, kazza said:

I felt awful for Caila in this episode. Unless she's had the world's best edit, her main crime seems to be that she attracted Jared. Before this season I'd always thought Ashley was an immature but ultimately sweet girl, and Lace was just out there. Now it's clear they both have zero self-esteem and a mean streak. Get out of the Bachelorverse and grow up!

I think the cast, consciously or not, blames Caila for them having to put up with Ashley.  As long as Jared was hanging around with Caila, Ashley was spending way too much time hanging around the rest of the cast whining about not being able to spend all her time with Jared.  It's not very nice of them, but people often blame the wrong person when things go crazy.  And by shunning Caila, they don't have Ashley screaming at them that they've chosen sides, and they didn't choose her!  To mix metaphors, they're trying to jump out of the way of the Ashley crazy train, and out of the path of fire.  I don't think any of them want Ashley to turn on them and give them the type of attention she's giving Caila.

As for Ashley, if there was a bet on what her problem is, I'd bet she has Histrionic Personality Disorder.  She fits the criteria for it.

Jared is enjoying the flattering sensation of being pursued by two different women, one of whom declares that he's perfect and she can't live without him.  I can only hope that he eventually tires of it, severs all ties with Ashley, and follows up by actually staying away from her in every way.  But I think Caila has put up with enough and hope she stays away from Jared, too.

Edited by Zahdii
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@yorklee2 in regards to the Cosmo articles, I only know that Ashley I writes one.  She has alluded several times that Calia is not what she seems and that not everybody liked her.   Ashley also wrote that Calia will "backstab" her later in the season.   But I take everything with a huge grain of margarita salt.

 

Also - did anyone hear Grant ask Lace if she wanted a shot after her mini-breakdown?  He seems to know the way to her heart.   Josh annoyed me to no end when he was proclaiming how great he was for caring for Sabel (his dog and please kill me that I actually recalled the name of his dog without looking but can't remember my best friend birthday) for the last 6 months so of course he's a good guy.  He was actively on Famously Single at that point.  Gah.  Not that it matters but when  that is your argument that you are a "right reasons" person you can't ignore the fact that you were on another exploitative reality show.   

Edited by LBS
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Carly has such a cool boho style on Instagram.  Why is she dressed so poorly on TV?  Are her Insta clothes just loaners for promo purposes?   That red thing looked like something Katarina Witt would have skated in circa 1989.  And regretted having worn it circa 1995. 

My ex had a gf who just wouldn't go away, though she married someone else.   I informed him no ifs and or buts, I would not tolerate her in our relationship.   At all.  Ten years later, he has been happily married, and this heifer still not only likes, but "love, love, LOVES" every little thing he posts on social media.   She also makes a point of reminiscing about their relationship 18 years ago, and even commented on a photo of their 8 year old that she always wondered what a child of theirs would look like.   Lunatic.  

It's not too late in the game for Grant to chat up Caila, Izzy, or Jami.    Damn man, your work life has enough real life drama.   Find a low drama, attractive woman.   You are a pretty good looking man.  Lace is messed up like Ashley, but I honestly believe she has violent tendencies.   Run from that shit, sir.

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I'm kind of hoping these losers all get stranded in "Paradise" so they don't add any more stupidity and psychosis to the general gene pool. 

Unfortunately for Amanda's 2 little girls, they have an emotionally & intellectually stunted mother who will probably pass on her baby voice and bad decision making.  On the other hand, since Amanda has not been present in their lives during her multiple pursuits of "love" (aka- communicable disease from various Bro's), maybe those girls will develop independence?

Edited by BusyOctober · Reason: typos aren't fun to read
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