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S02.E08: Stuff to Steal, People to Kill

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This a chance for Bendavid to rejoin the series, allthough we don't know if either One, Corso or neither is on the alternate Raza. But if the show runners want to recover him in this way, it would be possible.

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I don't think so. The fact that they killed both One and Corso so matter-of-factly lead me to believe that they're planning to leave him dead for good. 

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Killing off One weakens the show by sharply narrowing viewpoints. I suppose Mallozzi and Mulli's reputations suggest they prefer the mediocre.

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On 8/14/2016 at 1:17 AM, sjohnson said:

Killing off One weakens the show by sharply narrowing viewpoints. I suppose Mallozzi and Mulli's reputations suggest they prefer the mediocre.

Killing off One improves the show by cutting out the weakest link.

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On 8/13/2016 at 7:25 PM, Wouter said:

This a chance for Bendavid to rejoin the series, allthough we don't know if either One, Corso or neither is on the alternate Raza. But if the show runners want to recover him in this way, it would be possible.

You nailed it. Corso has got to be the person on the ship. It doesn't make any sense that it was anyone else. I thought evil One was pretty hot.

I thought this was surprisingly good episode. I enjoyed the twists and turns. I was looking forward to see how the crew got out of the mess.  I think that Six was right that Five one of the main reasons that Four, Three, and Two are different. I think One also played a major role in changing the crew dynamic. 

On a shallow note, I love Two's new leather coat, very stylish and hot.

Edited by SimoneS
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Fun episode.  I enjoyed seeing other versions of the crew.  I would have enjoyed seeing what Five was up to.  Hey just because she didn't want to know didn't meant I didn't want to know.    

Six's fate was predictable.  Without Five there to protect him he'd have been figured out a killed.  

I liked that Three was the ultimate roguish ladies man.  That fit a darker version of who be is.  

I was surprised to see the Android but then not very considering.   Android really is my favorite character so two of her was just fabulous.

My guess is that was Jace Corso in the Maurader.   It makes the most sense.  Either that or EvilFive which would be all kinds of awesome.   The reason we didn't see Five in the other universe is she is some evil genius type.  Now that I think about it  I want an EvilFive.   

Edited by Chaos Theory
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Maybe Five got spaced in this universe by the Raza crew. Because they voted last time, maybe someone voted differently. It is quite possible that she did make it to the ship that is how that Raza got ahold to the drive. Something that I was trying to figure out. Was it Jace Corso on the other Raza or One? His antics could make him either one. The blonde said Corso has had it out for them for a while. It could be the real Corso trying to take over. Or it could be the otherOne trying to finish his mission becoming hardened by his experience with the crew. Ones storyline which delves into the corporations and the murder of his wife in a "random break in '' as well can't end with him getting killed or can it.

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Its absolutely no question that it was whichever of MB's character/alter-egos that is on the escaped 'multiverse' Marauder.  Both Wexler and Tash are just bit players, and maybe not ever seen again (at least not until another trip is made to the 'multiverse').   I'm intrigued with the already mentioned idea that he is the other!One and not other!JaceCorso.   If they go with the storyline that he is the other!One, there's a chance he can be 'rehabilitated' to One.  But Jace Corso will always be JC, there's no making a 'good' guy out of him.

Considering that it seems to be the next needed course of action, the time constraint problem of going to Earth and DwarfStar Technologies just became an instant fix with the working and know-how of using a fully-functional [whatisit?] Drive.

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Yeah, there is no way that wasn't One/Corso in that other Marauder at the very end.  Even though it was fun seeing other versions of Wexler and Tash again, I can't see them showing up again bringing anything really big to the table, while another version of One/Corso can (plus let them keep using Marc Bendavid.)

Pretty fun episode, even if a lot of was the normal sci-fi "Characters pretend to be their alternative selves" tropes, but I enjoyed it.  I liked seeing the major differences in the universe like Six being discovered and killed (I'm guessing because either Five got spaced or neither even snuck aboard the Raza), Three actually becoming king of his home planet, and Three and Two in a relationship, while One wanted to overthrow them.  Enjoyed both Anthony Lemke and Melissa O'Neil's takes on the other version.  And I liked how that version of the Android was the same in a lot of ways, and still loyal to the extreme to her Raza crew.

Kind of loved Two taking Portia's jacket with her, after it was all over.  Wouldn't have been against her taken the entire outfit, actually.  Melissa O'Neill was looking good as Alternate, Flat-Out Evil Portia Lin..

I guess Devon really is done for, since Five said Nyx never found him, and they already seem to be heading out without him.  I can't see him surviving, unless someone else found him.

Two's shakes have gotten worse by first only making her get killed by Tash, and now she's just flat-out collapsed.  Looks like that will come to ahead next week, including a 

Spoiler

return from Evil Bearded Wil Wheaton!

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It would have taken some major plot twists to get One back on the Raza and with Corso's face, original Corso could have become the resident money focused Jerk With A Heart but a new One who can't return to his old life but is still looking for the person who hired Three to kill his wife works too. I didn't like One last season but the crews' personalities need rounding out a bit so I wouldn't mind a version of him returning full time.  

If we ever re-visit this alternate universe my guess is that Five ended up as Reynaud's prodigy, last episode hinted that Reynaud clawed her way up the corporate ladder and she did see something of herself in Five. 

I'm very curious about what exactly Portia did for the Android. 

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This season has just been so good!

I loved this ep, but then I am a sucker for time travel stories. 

With all the talk of war between multi-corps and anti-corporate rebels, I was expecting Liber8 from Continuum to show up! Then, when Truffaut mentioned that Portia and Marcus had warrants out on them, my first thought was, will the team from Killjoys be coming to get them. Yeah, I watch way too much SyFy.

I actually found the alternates for Two and Three interesting. And it made sense that they were together. It was also fitting to see Wexler and Jace Corso on the alternate Raza Crew.

Speaking of Jace, was that him in the marauder our Raza Crew brought back into their own timeline?

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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I wonder if the Seers took Devon to use as leverage against Nyx? It feels too sudden an end for the character. 

4 hours ago, patchwork said:

If we ever re-visit this alternate universe my guess is that Five ended up as Reynaud's prodigy, last episode hinted that Reynaud clawed her way up the corporate ladder and she did see something of herself in Five. 

I would love this. Five is so good, alt EvilFive plotting to take over the universe would be entertaining as hell.

8 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

Or it could be the otherOne trying to finish his mission becoming hardened by his experience with the crew. 

I would like this scenario because it would allow for a version of original One to return to the Raza.

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Yeah, there is no way that wasn't One/Corso in that other Marauder at the very end.  Even though it was fun seeing other versions of Wexler and Tash again, I can't see them showing up again bringing anything really big to the table, while another version of One/Corso can (plus let them keep using Marc Bendavid.)

Its the mostly likely scenario.  Plus like you said brings back Bendavid.   The only other reasonable explanation (and why they didn't just show him tiding along in the Marauder was because it was Five.  Alternate Universe Five never stopped hiding stowing away in the ship.  

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29 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Its the mostly likely scenario.  Plus like you said brings back Bendavid.   The only other reasonable explanation (and why they didn't just show him tiding along in the Marauder was because it was Five.  Alternate Universe Five never stopped hiding stowing away in the ship.  

Could be since the main universe Five did not look up her counterpart

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35 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Its the mostly likely scenario.  Plus like you said brings back Bendavid.   The only other reasonable explanation (and why they didn't just show him tiding along in the Marauder was because it was Five.  Alternate Universe Five never stopped hiding stowing away in the ship.  

Now I think about, it would be a bigger twist if it was alt Five in the Marauder. She could have been stowing away on the altRaza and then grabbed a ship to escape. Didn't Two say that Corso and the rest of the crew was locked up? 

Edited by SimoneS
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I have to say that there were no number people in the alternate universe. It was Portia Lin, Marcus Boone, Ishida Ryo (I think I've finally got his real name right?)

Kal Varrick is dead. "Jace Corso" may be Derrick Moss in disguise, but if so he's not One. Personally I think having the billionaire be the most evil one of all is like "DUH!" But I'm pretty sure the show doesn't, so I'm inclined to think this is just Jace Corso somehow joined up, probably when he came to kill the impostor. Emily, as said above, probably spaced. As to whether there's an evil Emily on the extra Marauder, since this one will kill them all when it suits her, it seems kind of redundant. As to which is in the Marauder, they did say the crew was tied up in the mess...but Emily always liked to hide in the gigantic vents, didn't she?

It's kind of depressing how similar Boone and the blood thirsty emperor are to their counterparts. 

This episode tells us that the plan was to kill Kal Varrick. But now I don't understand how Android got placed into kill mode. That made sense to me when I thought maybe the purpose was to have her kill the first one awakening. Since this episode tells us evil Portia Lin did the special programming on Android, it makes sense that she would have been able to restore control over Android after she got rid of Moss. (Or maybe, Corso, who seems to be mortal enemy of Lin/Boone.) 

The fun in watching evil Android working for the nefarious goals of evil Portia Lin; mad dog emperor Ishida Ryo wade through blood to his throne, Kill-them-all kill them all in order to leave her shipboard home the same; the counter-revolutionary try to figure out how to kill the government by himself so no nasty mob violence or evil revolutionaries are involved; bad boy be charmingly bumbly except when occasionally doing bad ass stuff that isn't really bad, because you know, justified? I'm starting to wonder where this kind of can go that's dramatically compelling. They've decided they're going to be ordinary decent criminals, which is something I don't really believe in. And their fictional universe doesn't really allow them to get away with that either. It makes me think of Stargate Universe (which I recently watched,) where somehow the plot had these people at each others throats in a way that would inevitably lead to their deaths, but somehow the show just kept on and on. Hanging a lantern on it with an alternate universe/time paradox story about how they all died didn't do the trick for me. 

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So I, too, am guessing AU Jace/Derrick Moss on the AU Marauder. Mixed feelings on that one.*

But.

One and Corso are both dead. And the guy who could be on that ship, if we run with that, is either AU Corso or AU Moss. There is no AU One. I figure AU Corso would be too much of a "been there, done that," and don't really see an organic way to integrate him into the crew anyhow, or a good "why" for it either. They could have him reoccur as a villain, I guess, but it seems a bit pointless to me, and the seasons seem too short for that. But what might be interesting instead is if that's AU Moss. If that's the case, the dude is seriously evil enough that he was willing to nuke the miners just to get rid of AU Portia (so he's definitely not a good guy :-/), but unlike Corso, maybe he could still be "saved"? (I agree there's no saving Corso (AU or ours).) And given the Raza's crew's redemption struggle, that could prove a goal they might be interested in pursuing, and not too OOC.

AU Moss also offers a couple of benefits storywise. He can provide insights into the workings of the Corps, without being too knowledgeable (as AU), which could help with the upcoming battle, and be generally more competent than One, having not been wiped. It makes the story with the murder of Moss's wife relevant again. And it answers the question I immediately had - why would you switch universes? How would it put whomever at an advantage? But if you're AU Moss, you know you can be charged with things like bombing the miners, so no "get out of jail free card" like with One in the beginning of this season, and as with our crew last season, AU Moss probably wouldn't have the memories/contacts to survive as AU Corso or as a wanted criminal on the run, and if you thought your wife might still be alive here... Well, I find the motivation somewhat compelling, and could picture it, which helps me a lot, and the possibilities for the story intriguing, for which I am thankful.

Nevertheless, I was still a bit sorry they didn't just shoot him, whichever one he is (heh), because as a running gag, it had something. Otoh, as a meta statement, it has something, too - keep shooting him until they get it "right." Too good, too evil, just right. (Once again, fully accepting that mileage varies on what "right" may be. Also, in light of the Raza's crew's wiped status, I personally don't hold their past crimes against them, which makes a difference, but that's a seriously tricky moral issue IRL. (Think: punishment or lack thereof for mentally ill 'criminals.') But that makes any rehabilitation of AU Moss difficult for the story, because he clearly is the guy who pushed that button. )

 

I really hope it wasn't AU Emily on the ship, because I thought Five's/JL's performances as different characters when they were doing the flashbacks/memories in season one were some of the weakest sauce in the show, next to One's/MB's. I don't think the actress has the range for it, and I'd prefer they play to their strengths.

8 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Its absolutely no question that it was whichever of MB's character/alter-egos that is on the escaped 'multiverse' Marauder.  Both Wexler and Tash are just bit players, and maybe not ever seen again (at least not until another trip is made to the 'multiverse').   I'm intrigued with the already mentioned idea that he is the other!One and not other!JaceCorso.   If they go with the storyline that he is the other!One, there's a chance he can be 'rehabilitated' to One.  But Jace Corso will always be JC, there's no making a 'good' guy out of him.

As the AU Android said (or more appropriately: the writers had her say), basically anyone on the AU Marauder other than AU Corso/Moss would be "redundant." I think the show runners have been kind of straight forward with their twists and hints (in part, no doubt, because the small handful of eps they have to get things done limits how much they can twist things around), so imma taking that as a pretty clear wink through the fourth wall.

(Along the lines of "lack of twists," I also took this ep as final confirmation that the "him/he" Portia and Ryo were discussing killing in that fragment from season one was in fact Jones/Varrick.)

Worst case, if the person on board is AU Moss, in this story 'rehabilitation' can always take the form of wiping him and hoping to regain One, but like I said above, I can't see the narrative advantage to that (and really hope they don't).

10 hours ago, Kuther2000 said:

Maybe Five got spaced in this universe by the Raza crew. Because they voted last time, maybe someone voted differently. It is quite possible that she did make it to the ship that is how that Raza got ahold to the drive. Something that I was trying to figure out. Was it Jace Corso on the other Raza or One? His antics could make him either one. The blonde said Corso has had it out for them for a while. It could be the real Corso trying to take over. Or it could be the otherOne trying to finish his mission becoming hardened by his experience with the crew. Ones storyline which delves into the corporations and the murder of his wife in a "random break in '' as well can't end with him getting killed or can it.

I'm thinking Moss as "Corso" on our Raza saved Emily in our universe, but their clearly more damaged AU Moss or AU Corso (if the switch never happened) voted to space her. So the fact they have the drive means she was there, the scene with AU Android at the end lets us know that Portia has/had skills (probably did the mods on Android, given she's thankful), and she or maybe AU Emily hooked it up successfully.

Otoh, looking at that, I realize we never saw just how damaged our universe's version of Moss was. We only got to know him as One. And his plan always sounded really stupid/cracktastic, so maybe that's because it wasn't his plan we were seeing/hearing about, but simpletonOne's assumptions about it. Ooo, this makes me happier. That was always a weak point for me, and it would be nice to see it fixed. (So, he didn't join the Raza to just kill Boone, but did so to get closer to the truth about who hired him, and schemes and stuff that hopefully made sense at the time. And probably then kill him, sure.)

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Yeah, I watch way too much SyFy.

This is not a thing.

Wait, no, you can watch too much SyFy, but not too much sci-fi.

 

* Dead horse:

Spoiler

I honestly thought MB didn't do a very good job when he reprised his role as Jace Corso earlier this season. I kept seeing flashes of One, and I really shouldn't have at all. One was a wiped Derrick Moss, and had bugger all to do with Corso beyond appearance, so it shouldn't have leaked into the representation, period. (Although I did find his performance improved over last season's Corso effort, which was pretty damn bad, imho. ymmv. Of course, the evil!guyliner didn't help matters.) I thought for the most part, MB did a better job as One, but One frequently annoyed me with his preachy and impractical (as in: nearly lethal) uselessness. (I get why some of you miss him, but I considered his character's death generally a "good thing.")

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6 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

This episode tells us that the plan was to kill Kal Varrick. But now I don't understand how Android got placed into kill mode. That made sense to me when I thought maybe the purpose was to have her kill the first one awakening. Since this episode tells us evil Portia Lin did the special programming on Android, it makes sense that she would have been able to restore control over Android after she got rid of Moss. (Or maybe, Corso, who seems to be mortal enemy of Lin/Boone.) 

We cross posted. Heh.

Interesting, because I assumed that was proof they meant to kill Varrick, but you're right about the sequence of the waking and Android being in kill-9 mode. I'll need to rethink that.

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1 hour ago, krimimimi said:

We cross posted. Heh.

Interesting, because I assumed that was proof they meant to kill Varrick, but you're right about the sequence of the waking and Android being in kill-9 mode. I'll need to rethink that.

It occurs to me that the order is also compatible with original Emily (a person we don't know at all,) deliberately setting Android on kill, planning to have her take out Corso, Lin, Boone and Ishida, leaving her and the cop Varrick? The mindwipe is not an error but designed to prevent them giving new orders to Android. In this scenario then her only error would have been inadvertently including herself and Varrick in the erasal. And surviving Android was luck and pluck. 

Her extra fragments of memory do seem to contradict this though. 

I suppose we could do what most serialized shows that kink their plot too much do, which is invent another player/plot. In this case, Emily is trying to wipe the bad guy crew, and inadvertently wiped everyone. Simultaneously, Portia Lin is setting the android on kill, aiming at Corso,  or Moss. Of course it's not clear why she wouldn't just whip out a gun and shoot either or both, just like the "digital evidence" for the death of alternate Varrick.

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12 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Its absolutely no question that it was whichever of MB's character/alter-egos that is on the escaped 'multiverse' Marauder.

My first thought was jeeze, they might as well change MB's name to Kenny.

2 hours ago, sjohnson said:

It's kind of depressing how similar Boone and the blood thirsty emperor are to their counterparts. 

Three was also pretty much the same when they temporarily regained their memories. The guy ranges from gun-happy and snarky to gun-happier and snarkier.

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Well played show, well played. Things I loved (in that order!):

Two keeping the coat (seriously when I first saw evil Two I suffered from coat envy, then I cheered when our Two commandeered the thing and for the rest of the episode I was more interested in the fate of that coat than the blink drive).

Torri Higginson's alternative Commander Truffault being just a magnificently conniving as original Truffault (I think she enjoys playing that character immensely).

Four listening to not one but two evil little angels - I'm sure that conversation will have ramifications further down the line. Same goes for Six knowing the verbal shut-down command for the Android. Those are both details that may or may not tie into the whole predicted betrayal story.

Hearing that it was Two who gave the Android her 'flawed' programming. That should pave the way to some pretty intriguing dynamics.

Not knowing what happened to alternative Five. Maybe we will hear about her one day but I'm surprised that the show for once kept her side-lined.

Bringing back Jack Corso (I assume it's him in the Marauder and it's really Corso and not AU's version of One - dude just nuked the mining facility). I wonder why and how he pulled that move though. Last we saw him was on evil Raza unconscious. I wonder how and why he pulled that move since he did not have that much time to react to everything that was going on.

I normally hate alternative universe plots but that was really great - one of the better episodes this season.

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Alternate Moss could have fired the nuke as a chance to get revenge on the murderer of his wife, Boone and Boone's boss, Portia Lin. Extraordinarily ruthless to be sure, but aren't billionaires?

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But Boone wasn't on the planet - he was on board the Raza. I mean such a s**** revenge plan would be worthy of One but I have my doubts.

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18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

 I liked seeing the major differences in the universe like Six being discovered and killed (I'm guessing because either Five got spaced or neither even snuck aboard the Raza),

Or of the two stowaways, Five is the one who died in the alt Universe.  I'm going with the person on the Marauder is the alt version of Five's pickpocket friend if its not alt Corso or Moss. 

Edited by ParadoxLost
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5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

But Boone wasn't on the planet - he was on board the Raza. I mean such a s**** revenge plan would be worthy of One but I have my doubts.

Hey, you're right. I somehow thought that Boone was charging in all PO'd because a nuke missed him. 

On another topic, alternate Emily is no doubt superevil. When she says "Kill'em all," she *laughs*!

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5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

But Boone wasn't on the planet - he was on board the Raza. I mean such a s**** revenge plan would be worthy of One but I have my doubts.

I laughed out loud. Thank you.

Liked the episode as well. The only bad thing was I don't remember who the two new crew members were. They looked familiar, but I watch the show too casually to recognize them. Could someone refresh my memory?

I was waiting to see how they bring MB back, so here we are. At least it's not such a bad way to do it. And he may still have the info that Corso Prime boasted of having before Two killed him.

I was a bit disappointed we haven't seen anybody react to Alt Two/Three being a couple. Could be hilarious. Or tell Alt Two he was cheating on her. 

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According to Mellozzi, in an after-ep review interview, it was either just 'other!JC(/One?)' or a group of people on the multiverse!Marauder.  Until proven otherwise, my money will always be on it just MB's character.  The interviewer and JM said the AU version of themselves were basically the same, only the AU didn't have Five stowing along to affect and change things.  Going by that, really makes me think that the AU!JC is AU!DM 'dressed up' as AU!JC.  Just like the prime reality's One backstory.  As to it being DM and going for his wife's murderer by launching the nuke, maybe it was Wexler (or Portia, or P+W) who did the deed in the AU.  *shrugs*

Also - again according to JM - a couple questions left unanswered from the Pilot ep were answered in this episode; IE who performed the mind-wipe and why the ship dropped them out of the cryosleep.  My own deduction here, but included in the reveals, was we found out which who "he" was that Two&Four plotted to kill before getting to the mining colony.

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36 · Reason: Grammar Police received an anonymous tip from the Spelling Bee

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I am actually a big sucker for alternate universe stories (long time lover of Fringe), so I was super excited for this, and I was quite satisfied. I liked seeing the Evil Twins of the Raza gang, especially Portia/Boone being a couple, and them still being evil friends with Evil Emperor Four. Although, I kind of wish that we had seen a version of Three whos parents were never killed and he was never raised to be a criminal, where he was a nice, normal guy. That would have been interesting

I swear, I am so waiting for the Dark Matter/Killjoys cross over event, as they are both currently doing Evil Corporations Doing Evil plots. I know they are different universes with different mythologies and worlds, but it would be cool! 

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11 hours ago, FurryFury said:

Liked the episode as well. The only bad thing was I don't remember who the two new crew members were. They looked familiar, but I watch the show too casually to recognize them. Could someone refresh my memory?

Wexler and what's-her-face. They were members of the mercenary team that Truffault had hired to help team Raza steal the doomsday device back in seasons 1. Wexler was the guy who air-locked Two and then got air-locked by her in return.

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10 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

According to Mellozzi, in an after-ep review interview, it was either just 'other!JC(/One?)' or a group of people on the multiverse!Marauder.  Until proven otherwise, my money will always be on it just MB's character.  The interviewer and JM said the AU version of themselves were basically the same, only the AU didn't have Five stowing along to affect and change things.  Going by that, really makes me think that the AU!JC is AU!DM 'dressed up' as AU!JC.  Just like the prime reality's One backstory.  As to it being DM and going for his wife's murderer by launching the nuke, maybe it was Wexler (or Portia, or P+W) who did the deed in the AU.  *shrugs*

Also - again according to JM - a couple questions left unanswered from the Pilot ep were answered in this episode; IE who performed the mind-wipe and why the ship dropped them out of the cryosleep.  My own deduction here, but included in the reveals, was we found out which who "he" was that Two&Four plotted to kill before getting to the mining colony.

So basically he confirmed that it wasn't Five on the Marauder so it was most likely JC/One. If the Alt versions were the same, then shouldn't One have been good.  Also, if Five didn't stow away on the Raza, how did they get the drive?

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Yeah, if the AU characters are the same characters then Derek Moss should be a good guy who's not into nuking people (the nuke did take out the mining colony after all - the Marauder was just supposed to be a collateral damage/a victim of friendly fire).

And the more I think about it the more significant it seems that we never got to see AU Emily - especially considering how important Five was with regards to acquiring the blink drive. Also, one tiny detail that almost went unnoticed: AU Raza had not one but two blink-drives. Once Two gets rid of her tremors the Raza folks should really go after AU Marauder.

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Yes. The show even highlighted the point Emily/Five wouldn't even look up basic information for a hint as to her alternate's activity. 

As to getting the blink drive...If the alternates stole the key card from Emily before they spaced her, the alternate Raza would be in a position to benefit from stealing the rest of the blink drive, killing Alicia Renault (sp?) in the process. But it sounds like Mallozzi specifically ruled that out? But I really don't see why little miss kill them all couldn't bond with the evil crew more or less as easily as with the number people, leaving their acquisition of the blink drive fairly simple. And leaving an unknown party to stow away on the FTL Marauder. Her superduper criminal hacking skills would quickly make her one of them, if she managed to survive long enough to show them off.

There is no One in alternate universe. As for what Derek Moss was like, we've never seen him, in any iteration. I'm still inclined to think billionaires are evil, more or less by definition. Nonetheless Jase Corso showed up in the original universe all peeved about the masquerade. It seems likely enough that he showed up in this one too. Like Mallozzi and Mullie, likely enough Portia Lin, Marcus Boone and Ming the Merciless would find real Jase Corso much, much cooler. 

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I'm pretty sure that had to be Corso rather than Moss nuking the miners because wasn't One the one arguing for helping the miners back in the pilot? He didn't need to be influenced by Five to do the right thing. He was assuming that their mission was to help. A billionaire might be an entitled jerk, but nukes are contrary to anything we ever saw of One.

However, this episode made me realize why I miss One. It's not so much him as it is I miss the interaction Two and Three had with him. With Two, her shakes/passing out thing seems like it would have had more emotional stakes with her in a more intimate relationship. That would have made it matter more that she hadn't told anyone and would have meant that she was actively hiding things. There hasn't been a replacement for the kind of relationship she had with him. With Three, you kind of need the Nice Boy to provide contrast to the Bad Boy, and then there also needs to be that frenemy kind of relationship for busting chops. It was kind of a loss that there was no one to react to the crazy relationship Boone had with that woman on the AU crew and the fix Three got into because of that. Three and Six don't have that kind of relationship. Five is a kid. Four wouldn't be too shocked. One was the only character who would have had the right mix of shock, self-righteousness, amusement, and snark to properly provide the "and what happened to you back there?" reaction.  

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Yeah, after some thinking, I don't think One (AU or not) would nuke a mining colony just to get his wife's killer.

But other than just straight up killing him off soon again, I don't see how they can incorporate a JC because he will always be a bad guy... unless they do like I speculated earlier this season;  force him into a cryo-chamber and wipe his memories.

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5 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Yeah, after some thinking, I don't think One (AU or not) would nuke a mining colony just to get his wife's killer.

But other than just straight up killing him off soon again, I don't see how they can incorporate a JC because he will always be a bad guy... unless they do like I speculated earlier this season;  force him into a cryo-chamber and wipe his memories.

It would be interesting if they did that and it turned out that JC is the one thing the show hasn't had yet: Someone who is just a born psychopath. While a born psychopath isn't as inherently narratively interesting as someone who became a villain over the course of their life, on a show where we already have three people who weren't born villains but became ones, I think it would be good to have one of the other kind for contrast. It seems very possible to me that the show will go that route since the credits still just have MB in the guest star portion rather than among the series regulars, so whatever's going on with this plotline, I don't think MB's sticking around.

That said, I'd prefer if it was parallel verse Five, because then we'd find out who she was in the parallel verse. And I can see the show zagging where viewers expect it to zig. They did do the setup for it in that parallel verse Five is the only one unaccounted for. Stowing away is certainly well within her range.

I'm also not ruling out Tasha, since she is played by Jessica Sipos, who I assume is a relation of Shaun Sipos (I don't think we've seen the last of Devon; they would've had Nyx find his body if he was dead). Heck, maybe it's all three of them. It's not like the Marauder can only seat one.

It's interesting that parallel Portia and Boone are a couple (and I enjoyed Melissa O'Neil's look, when the scene went from Portia and Boone in the chair to Two and Three watching) and it makes me wonder if the show plans to go that way with Two and Three eventually. There was groundwork for it in S1 in that Two/Three were ultimately tighter than One/Two were: Three, not One, is who gave up the password to try to save Two from being spaced out the airlock, and Two chose Three over One in the S1 finale. One/Two's relationship was really pretty weak in the final analysis; they fell apart almost as soon as they slept together. He lost her trust, while she knows Three has her back. I liked the moment here where Three rushed Tasha when he realized Two wasn't going to be able to block her.

There was a really powerful emotional resonance in the scene where Six watched Portia murder Varrick since this season Two has been the one doing the most for Six - trying to convince him to leave the prison with them, insisting on taking him onboard when he got shot, being willing to forgive him and re-integrate him into the crew. There's no question that Six's presence on the ship is due to Two; without her advocating for Six, Three and Four would have ignored Five's wishes and booted him out. So Six watching Portia shoot Varrick, now, was a bigger gut punch than it would have been if that scene had been before all Two's done for Six this season.

Loved the reveal about Two and the Android. The original verse Android is already pretty loyal to Two - her order of preference has long seemed to be Five first, then Two - but this will cement it.

While the delicious conversation between Four and the parallel Portia/Boone will clearly have ramifications, I think the newscast Two listened to will also have ramifications. Because that newscast made it clear that any revolution against the corporations, evil as they are, will have a lot of collateral damage. Two might back off the idea she's had about trying to take the corporations down, at least for now, particularly since she seems to be feeling a bit warmer towards her universe's Truffaut. The show made a point again this episode of having Two being concerned about other people: she was all "We have to save the survivors" of the destroyed space station and the Android had to apologetically tell her there wouldn't be any, and she continually tried to find a peaceful resolution and save the lives of everyone in the mining community. I've realized One's viewpoint is actually redundant now, because Two clearly no longer needs him to argue for the moral side before she makes a decision. She doesn't need One around to make her want to be a good person. Neither do Five, Six, the Android, Nyx or Devon, for that matter. Three and Four are the only ones who waver about whether they want to be good, and they're more willing to listen to Two on that score anyway than they were One, because Two has credibility with them that he didn't have - she's their leader, and they know she isn't naive or weak.

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Also - again according to JM - a couple questions left unanswered from the Pilot ep were answered in this episode; IE who performed the mind-wipe and why the ship dropped them out of the cryosleep.

Didn't we already know that Five's the one who wiped everyone? Or my head is dark matter and I made that up.

Edited by lordonia
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Yes, we knew that. What we did not know for sure was who Two and Four had planned to kill: both One and Six were candidates. I'm not sure if we really can take everything that happened on AU Raza as being 1:1 what would have happened on original Raza but Six certainly came to that conclusion, it does make sense after all. What we still don't know is what had happened to the Android why she was put in storage and in attack mode.

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Piggy-backing off the <alt!JC is the most likely candidate for being on the multiverse!Marauder> theory, and whether its a good thing or pointless, etc..... the Afterbuzz aftershow brought up a great point.  The Blink Drive doesn't just have the ability to 'blink' between universes, it can also traverse time.  Using that info;  what if the BD is used to go back and save One from dying?

However, after thinking about it, wouldn't going back to save One then seriously alter the "Prime" timeline from that point, thus creating a new future for the Raza crew that would be wholly unpredictable & unstable?  Or am I mistakenly incorporating my theories/plot-line plot-holes instances from The Flash into how things will work in the Dark Matter universe(s)??

Edited by iRarelyWatchTV36
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Oh, nonononono - no time-travel! If they turn the Raza into the Tardis I'm out! Of all the shows currently dabbling with time travel (beyond Dr. Who which is making its own rules and is getting away with it due to various reasons) only 12 Monkeys is having a decent grip on the concept. The Flash and Legends of Tomorrow play fast and lose with time travel and the results are just messy.

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I wouldn't say 12 Monkeys had a good grip on the concept. It makes just as little sense there as on The Flash or LoT, if you stop and think about it. 

But yeah, please no time travel here. 

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We have to agree to disagree about 12 Monkeys (I did actually think about it). But I'm afraid if the possibility of time-travel has been brought up it will become reality sooner or later in DM. We can only hope that there's plenty of restrictions put on the whole thing - like only limited jumps in time are possible. Also: if they have the ability to save One then I'd say it would make more sense to jump a couple of weeks farther and make sure that doomsday device never reaches Iriden 3. And then everything that happened in season 2 is going down Bobby Ewing's shower drain.

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7 hours ago, Black Knight said:

It would be interesting if they did that and it turned out that JC is the one thing the show hasn't had yet: Someone who is just a born psychopath...

It's interesting that parallel Portia and Boone are a couple (and I enjoyed Melissa O'Neil's look, when the scene went from Portia and Boone in the chair to Two and Three watching) and it makes me wonder if the show plans to go that way with Two and Three eventually. There was groundwork for it in S1 in that Two/Three were ultimately tighter than One/Two were: Three, not One, is who gave up the password to try to save Two from being spaced out the airlock, and Two chose Three over One in the S1 finale. One/Two's relationship was really pretty weak in the final analysis; they fell apart almost as soon as they slept together. He lost her trust, while she knows Three has her back. I liked the moment here where Three rushed Tasha when he realized Two wasn't going to be able to block her...

Because that newscast made it clear that any revolution against the corporations, evil as they are, will have a lot of collateral damage. Two might back off the idea she's had about trying to take the corporations down, at least for now... I've realized One's viewpoint is actually redundant now, because Two clearly no longer needs him to argue for the moral side before she makes a decision. She doesn't need One around to make her want to be a good person. Neither do Five, Six, the Android, Nyx or Devon, for that matter. Three and Four are the only ones who waver about whether they want to be good, and they're more willing to listen to Two on that score anyway than they were One, because Two has credibility with them that he didn't have - she's their leader, and they know she isn't naive or weak.

Interesting post. The point about born psychopaths does ask questions about medical technology. Insofar as there is such a thing, I strongly suspect it is fundamentally neurological...but like a stroke victim slowly recovering as other parts of the brain "learn" (i.e., rewire) to cope, organic psychopathy should be treatable. Incidentally, I think the actual symptoms of such brain disorders should vary from person to person according to individual biography. One person with bad wiring is a contract killer, another is a Hollywood producer.

There point about alternate Lin/Boone actually works against original universe Two/Boone, because alternate Boone cheats on her. 

The point about rejecting revolution is even more pertinent to Varrick than Two. Varrick after all has spent most of his life fighting revolution and basically turned against the GA because they weren't rigid enough. As for the notion that nobody needs One to be good, of course not. They never did. What One provided was a different perspective on what "good" is. Now the range of opinions is decidedly limited. They have all agreed that they are essentially a band of thieves (at least for now,) albeit thieves with a code. This code is largely fixed on loyalty to each other, a loyalty that finds its highest expression in killing others who threaten the crew. They are agreed upon the essential goodness of things as they would be without the personal corruption of individual villains. Etc. There is no character who really much threatens different choices on this issue. We know for a fact the real choice is supposed to be who betrays the new code our band of badasses have all chosen. One was the only character who might have called out Ryo on his homicidal schemes of world conquest. One passed on killing Boone for revenge, but Two never really even thought of doing something weird with Jase Corso, like publicly depositing him at a GA outpost, along with invited news people. 

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

 I'm not sure if we really can take everything that happened on AU Raza as being 1:1 what would have happened on original Raza but Six certainly came to that conclusion, it does make sense after all. What we still don't know is what had happened to the Android why she was put in storage and in attack mode.

The question of who set up Android to do that really does raise questions about whether we understand anything about who these people were. The best suspects of course was anyone who knew the kill code. They would be able to survive Android's attack pretty handily, while having an excellent chance of killing off those who didn't. As the last to waken, Varrick might be expected to have the best chances to win, plus he had a motive for murdering the rest.

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

But I'm afraid if the possibility of time-travel has been brought up it will become reality sooner or later in DM. 

They could have all time travel be to alternate universes. This is a way of rationalizing paradoxes by referring to the multiverse interpretation of quantum mechanics. Personally I tend to dislike all time travel with paradoxes unless they're basically comedy. So I hope Dark Matter doesn't go that route.

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There point about alternate Lin/Boone actually works against original universe Two/Boone, because alternate Boone cheats on her. 

But we've just learned that real (both Prime and Alt) Lin/Boone are not the same as Two and Three, so I don't think it matters. I saw it more like Doylist rather than Watsonian: I too was wondering if the show will ever revisit this particular storyline from s1 and after this episode, I'm guessing it will. So it was probably done to put the idea of them as a potential couple into the viewers' heads.

Edited by FurryFury

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I swear, I am so waiting for the Dark Matter/Killjoys cross over event, as they are both currently doing Evil Corporations Doing Evil plots. I know they are different universes with different mythologies and worlds, but it would be cool! 

Me too! And I think they can make it work. Now that the Raza Crew has the blink drive, would it be that hard for them to have another "accident' like the one in this ep, and end up in the part of the galaxy where Killjoys takes place?

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If Raza blinked into the Killjoys universe, the Raza crew would walk around blinking at the lights mounted on the walls so they shine straight into the eyes of everyone not facing the fourth wall. Two would just get some really cool sunglasses. But Boone would somehow end up with ugly goggles, then spend the rest of the episode complaining about the interior design. No doubt Ryo would interpret Scarbacks as samurai. I suppose on the up side the conversation between Lucy and Android would be frank. Fortunately there wouldn't be any pointless conflict between the Raza crew and bounty hunters needing a payday.

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Well the first thing that would happen is the whole crew of Raza, including Two and Nyx, would fall in love with Dutch, cue the drama.

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If you want to create a "Killjoys meets Dark Matter" topic, please feel free to do so - but let's keep it to episode talk in here.

(also, a big ole HEE at the idea that everyone would fall in love with Dutch - they so would, everyone does, don't they?)

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