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Ljohnson1987

The Other Duggars: The Howlers, Lost Girls, Grandma Duggar and Amy

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She's the daughter of Jim Bob's only sibling Deanna Jordan nee Duggar.

Thank You so much- I have been wondering for a while. 

Does she not fallow the same beliefs as her Uncle and Grandma do?    

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Amy is not ATI. She dates and drinks and seems to have a lot of good times with her friends. She is heading off to Nashville to try and get into country music. Her mom was unmarried when Amy was born and didn't marry Amy's dad until years later. Amy is a conservative Christian but I wouldn't even call her fundie light.

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I think Deanna Duggar was on Mysteries at the Museum several weeks ago.

At least it was somebody w/thst name. I can't imagine there'd be two in AR. (The segment took place in AR)

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According to Amy's instagram, she and Grandma Mary have been hanging out together lately. So I hope that Grandma has been liberated from the laundry room.

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It would be awesome to see Grandma Duggar become Amy's sidekick in Nashville; FREE GRANDMA DUGGAR.

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There were teaser pics at some point somewhere of Famy's upcomng TLC special and Grandma Mary was with her.   I guess she let out of the laundry room for a little while at least.  Or else she managed to escape!

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Maybe in the total chaos of the courting girls shirking their chores, the remaining j'slaves frantically learning to pick up the slack and everyone's jaw-dropping shock at Michelle playing at being momma no one's noticed grandma's sneaked off. Go, Mary, go!!

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Yeah, they took in JB's dad when he was dying, but that's "honoring your father and mother"; I don't think it means Mary has to be their indentured washerwoman servant for the rest of her days.  This is probably what's really behind Michelle's desperation to have another baby.  She may have to start doing her own laundry again otherwise.  RUN, GRANDMA, RUN!

Edited by all4mom
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Happy Birthday Grandma! Hope you get a day off from laundry duty.

 

It'll be a cold day in Hell before J'Chelle goes to DC to do Smuggar and Anna's laundry.  And attempts to be a real grandma to the 3 M's. 

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So Joy Anna is seventeen, the next girl is seven.  Let's say Joy starts courting at 22, I guess Johannah will then be responsible for the last 3 girls?  If Jinger and Jana leave, will Joy now be responsible for all the Howlers?  You know none of the howlers will be taking care  of anyone, even if they wanted to (which I suspect a couple might want to and would be good at it).

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Joy Anna is 16, and Hannie is 8. In the Duggar household, 8 is not too young to have a buddy, do laundry, make meals, etc...it's actually about a year older than Jana was when the kids had to start taking over the household duties long ago (remember Michelle's nervous breakdown in the laundry room after 7 kids? I think Jana was 7 years old then). If Jinger and Jana leave, which probably won't be for another 2-3 years, there will only be a couple of girls younger than 10 years old in the family. And hopefully Jim Bob will encourage some of the older boys to find wives. I have a feeling that both Joseph and John David would not want to go for the whole courtship/engagement/wedding dog and pony show on television though. So how will the Duggars handle that? Supposed John David wants to marry an ATI girl whose parents are firmly against television...will they just announce one day,"well, John David got married this past weekend" and keep the whole thing off camera? I really wonder about that. Or does every boyfriend/girlfriend that the Duggar kids have must agree to be a part of the show before Jim Bob approves their relationship?

 

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I really think that JD has left the compound and Ma and Pa Duggar are trying to keep it on the down low.

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I think John David helped that boy, Frank, tote home his sacks of warsh and is now living in Frank's garage. Frank like the way he talks, mmmmm hmmmmm. Wait, that was Karl from Sling Blade. I get him and John David confused.

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I just watched the video and I think the family is slowly backing away from Gothardism based on the fact that the girls were included in the activity. Jim-Bob seems to actually like his kids and I hope he spends the majority of the time raising them and not Michelle. Maybe the howlers and lost girls will be the ones to break them free of the super fundie life they've led and they can finally go to school.

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I think John David helped that boy, Frank, tote home his sacks of warsh and is now living in Frank's garage. Frank like the way he talks, mmmmm hmmmmm. Wait, that was Karl from Sling Blade. I get him and John David confused.

Omg! I just snorted root beer float out my nose!  GOOD ONE!

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I like Jim bob. They believe in strange things but, I think all faith is strange so......yeah. He seems like a very nice man to me.

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The man uses his children for famewhoring purposes, and dry humps his wife in front of his daughter and her suitor to rub it in their faces he can have sex, but they are not allowed to. He controls his children, and they have to ask permission to have a career that he needs to approve of. He may love his children, but he is far from being a good parent.

Edited by bigskygirl

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I like Jim bob. They believe in strange things but, I think all faith is strange so......yeah. He seems like a very nice man to me.

 

I think Jim Bob truly believes he is a good guy and a good parent.  My assertion that he is not a good guy or a good parent isn't based on an alternative faith.  It's based on his actions toward his wife, his children, his friends, and the people who are taken advantage of by him.  Do I think he's the worst person in the world? Oh, he'll no!  He's not even in the top 25% of worst people on my list.  But, since I am making the assertion that he's not a "good guy", it falls to me to support that claim.

 

I don't think good guys need to enact biblical patriarchy to feel that they're leading their family.  Whatever else is said- Jim Bob feels that he is righteously justified in being the keeper of his children's lives, hearts, and virginity.  Not because he's earned it through trust or a demonstrative capabilities, but because an old book says so.   He truly believes that women should defer to their fathers and then there husbands.  That's not a "good guy" belief.  Jim Bob truly believes that spending thousands of dollars to take his kids on poverty tours of third world countries in ministering to their needs as human beings.  I would be far more impressed by Jim Bob if he said, "I'm going to trust that my god will find a way to make people believe in him.  But, I WILL guarantee that any child put on camera for the benefit of my show will have food, clean water, and clothing."  If he had taken the cost of getting his family to Nicaragua and instead given it to OxFam or donated it towards infrastructure or that orphanage, I would praise Jim Bob.

 

Good guys don't suggest that women who dress a certain way are no godly.  Good guys don't try to use their huge families to reap unearned discounts or benefits.  Good guys don't use child labor to build the home his friskiness has made need for.  Good guys don't take money from the kids orthodontics to run for a political position.  Good guys recognize that their wife is on the verge of a mental breakdown and would help with laundry so his pregnant wife wouldn't need to be up at 3am, crying out to God to help her, while he sleeps.  Good guys make sure their children are educated.  Good guys realize that women should have a right to their reproductive choices and that humans who like the same sex are still human.  Have we ever seen Jim Bob love on, or include, Michelle's lesbian sister?  Good guys don't put their families on camera for a buck or sell the rights to traumatic moments over to a network.  Good guys don't control their daughters marriage choices or spend hours praying with internet prayer buddies while his older daughters raise his children.

 

I will commend Jim Bob for not beating his wife, drinking a six pack and then bopping a kid or two.   I respect his desire to raise his kids in a way he finds moral.  I think he loves his wife and kids.  I just don't believe he's the harmless, perfect country, bumpkin daddy that TLC portrays him to be.

Edited by Rhondinella · Reason: readability
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In their world, what Jimbob is doing is exactly what 'good guys' do. I choose not to live in that world, and I wish the kids truly could feel like they had the freedom to choose how to live without the fear of disappointing their parents and disobeying God.

Jimbob is like all of us - he has good qualities and bad. He is extremely annoying most of the time, and his cheapness makes me want to smack him (not frugality, but trying to sell crap and pull one over to get good deals). His cultural unawareness is smack worthy, too.

However, I think he does really love his kids, and is realizing in the attempts to pander to a narcissistic wife, he has neglected the well being and happiness if several older ones. So many parents seem to fall into the trap of 'the first one left the nest and is ok, so the rest will follow, I can relax', and I think the Duggars did, especially because no one was complaining (due to Michelle's constant Ati character trait instruction).

I do think he had an 'oh, crap,' moment when the Bates girls started marrying off, and realized his daughters are allowing him to be their purity keeper, an he better live up to his part of the deal and help them court. Michelle is still in MichelleLand trying to catch another baby (such a weird expression).

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Wanderwoman, you said it all. I agree with you, Jim Bob is a sly fox, always has been. Doesn't mean he's intelligent, for we know he isn't. I still would like to hear from his business associates, tenants of his properties, and know exactly he does business...does he implement his "Christian charital beliefs", or does he "pull the rope for all he can get from his tenants", who, maybe could use a good turn. Both of them have "checked out" a long time ago. I don't think Michelle ever recovered from her nervous breakdown all those years ago, she never received any property therapy, and seems to be coddled by the family as some "fragile egg shell". Jana had to step up way back then and do it all, and she just kept doing it. They need to be parents and put their children's lives first and give those young people a chance at it. I can't understand how other posters on their Blog Website praise the ground they walk on as being a model family. Some headlines of how they live are good..ie, live within your means, have a faith to sustain you in hard times, don't be a slut, etc., but they have stretched those good principles to an extreme that they have become bizarre, stifeling and isolating. Their kids, although on TV, are sheltered from it and all that is good in this world too. They threw the "baby out with the bathwater".

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I also wanted to expound on my feelings towards Michelle and why I take the position that she's not a "good gal".  

 

1.  She got to have a normal, American childhood full of opportunities to develop her own self interests and self image.  She denies her children the same flexibility.  She got to do cheerleading and skating and other sports.  She got to go to school and create friends who she has relationships with to this day.  Her parents allowed her to negotiate her own values, faith, and morality.  Consider the fact that her parents had several children and those children are vastly different (way beyond pickles or no pickles) - fundamentalists, gay, no children, tons of children, and politically individuals.  Her parents seem to have done a really good job of allowing their children to be who they were meant to be.  Despite that amazing testament of parenting, Michelle only talks about how dangerous the world is.  She refuses to give her kids the same opportunities for exploration and growth that she benefited from.  I will point out that Michelle didn't fall into her current, narrow, endangered view of family until Jim Bob said they should.  Michelle's kids have never played a team sport, have never been allowed to choose their own friends, and have been denied certain activities and potentials because of the limitations put on them by Jim Bob and Michelle.

 

2. For all of Michelle's talk of homeschooling her children, she hasn't done it in many, many years.  First there was the Querys. Then came another family (mom and daughter shown in Decisions and Deliveries).  Then, her own children took it over.  Michelle's gone on camera and said that, while she enjoys teaching phonics, she doesn't enjoy the other subjects.  So, then, why homeschool at all?  Field trips to construction sites and animal sanctuaries and museums are wonderful enrichment but they're not an education.  And, when you homeschool the way they do, you are limiting the choices for the child's future.  When you try to make it appear that college minus and apprenticeship are just as good as a university education or accredited trade program, you are ignorant.  Passing that ignorance and poor teaching off as a superior option makes me very sad for those kids. Homeschooling is hard and it requires a dedication and intelligence that Michelle does not possess.

 

3.  As soon as you have more children than there are awake hours in a day, someone loses.  Because of Michelle's obsession with pregnancy and infants, there are children in her family that were handed to a buddy for the majority of their care at very young ages.  Poor Jordyn got shafted!  That's not parenting.

 

4.  Like Jim Bob, Michelle agreed to sell her children's privacy to TLC.  Calling it mission work doesn't make it any less of a reality show. Her kids will have, on film available to any and all, some of their most intimate moments and struggles.  They have "confessionals" where there thoughts and fears and dreams are put on blast so Mom and dad get a little more money.  

 

5. Michelle has had people step in to: do laundry, give music lessons (but only on instruments mom and dad approve of), nurse their children while they go give speeches and stump, teach her kids, cook, and do chores.  What DOES Michelle do?  

Every seen where she's cooking, she's cooking for herself and Jim Bob.  I think her repertoire stops at eggs.  She's got older girls to do all the things regular moms do.  

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wanderwoman: Yes, Yes, once again. You are right on target and see it for what it is. Can't agree with you more. You are a very insightful person and you explain your views clearly. Why do people worship the ground they walk on? ( Isn't that a sin against the First Commandment? ) I feel for their kids, all of them including Smuggar, for he grew up in this and doesn't really know anything else. Too bad he didn't have a real chance, like the other ones, they will bop around in mediocrity and never really accomplish anything "officially". I do think that by the time the younger kids grow up, Michelle and JIm Bob will be too tired and too old and too creaky to care as much as now. After all, the world is watching what great Super Christians they are, but in years time, the cameras WILL go away and they won't have to perform.

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In the past the kids were allowed to play broomball. It stopped when the community center where they play it started to charge a small fee for the use of the ice. Boob is such a cheapskate, that the kids no longer play there.

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In the past the kids were allowed to play broomball. It stopped when the community center where they play it started to charge a small fee for the use of the ice. Boob is such a cheapskate, that the kids no longer play there.

Yup.  As soon as they started charging, Jim Bob was out.  

The thing is, they use religion as a reason their kids can't do sports.  In the first book, they cited coaches who weren't good influences and the potential that people you didn't know could have influences on your child.  What it really boiled down to, and they almost admitted it, was that 16 kids (at that time) with different likes or sports would mean too much time driving around and would cost a lot.  The hypocrisy is that they now spent weeks driving around in the bus for the things mommy and daddy want to do and all that isn't cheap.  You can't convince me that TLC would pony up for 30 people to go on world tours, but wouldn't pony up for the four younger girls and Jackson to take a gymnastics class or something.  It's bull.  Even Islamic parents find ways around the modesty issues, so that's a scrappy excuse.  It all comes back to Michelle and Jim Bob's wants are more important than the kids'.

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After watching last night's episode, it looks as if JoyAnna should lay off them (tater tots) for a while.

She actually looked 20-30 pounds heavier than Jill and Jana in last night's episode.

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I think that Joy is just a different body type than her sisters. It might help her if she wore clothes that actually fit her.

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I think she unfortunately didn't get the Duggar metabolism. Her clothes fit her just fine. She's just getting to be a little on the chunky side.  (and I say this as a chunky lady myself - I do not look the same in the same clothes as skinny women, doesn't mean I can't wear them)

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I think the Robertson men are too old for JD, plus, they drink and do rock and roll. And the DD women aren't too modest.

And they believe in different kinds of Jesuses.

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Many, many, many girls pack on some pounds as their body is about to go through a growth spurt.   To me Joy looks very much like she's just about to make that final push to all grown up.   And for a lot of women that is an awkward time.

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I do not feel sorry for Smuggar. He is a carbon copy of JimBoob. He loves the fact he is considered Gothard royality, and he really does believe he is a big shot in D.C. Anna actually thinks she is a celebrity. They are so far from reality that they need a search party to bring them back to the real world.

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I agree, nurse. I wouldn't call any of the Duggar girls chunky.  In fact, I cringe at discussing their weight at all.  Knowing that their mom had unhealthy habits regarding weight management, I can't think of a justifiable reason to put any weight comments on the net in reference to the Duggar girls.  They ARE beautiful girls- each of them.  

 

I got to do some very interesting reading today.  A friend of mine belongs to a paid public records search site .  We looked up Duggar stuff.  It was very interesting and I will put up a post tomorrow.

 

Btw- I just found out I am pregnant with twins today.  See.....arrrrrgghhhh....even talking about 19 kids gets your eggs primed.  Doh!

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I really feel that JD is doing his own thing. He is out there earning money. He seems to have spent his earnings on flying lessons. I think that the flying lessons aren't really ATI or Pop Duggar approved. I have a sense that he has gone his own way and like Jill he is parroting his parents views. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he is hanging with the guys in his area and having a redneck good time and drinking a few brews.

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Out of all the older kids, Joseph is probably the one with the lowest profile.  He seems a lot like John David (the quiet, mechanical type). He isn't much of a talker and clearly is uncomfortable on camera and doesn't give many interviews.

 

This is crazy but I have to say that sometimes I find Joseph, in certain poses and light, well, kind of attractive.  Josh wasn't bad when the show first started but he has gotten old and fat.  Joseph looks like he actually works out and has a nice body.  He has great lips.....(bows head in shame)

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I agree that Jospeh is next in line after Josiah on the good-looks side of things.  Once the howlers get through the awkward stage, we'll see!

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I have always liked Joe....right up until he took  the 'I am a brother of Jessa, I must order around and try to intimidate her boyfriend' attitude.    Watching the offspring develop and extend their parent's legalistic, judgemental old-world Christian attitudes is scary.  There is no concept of GRACE and JOY that comes with moderate Christian belief.   I had hoped Joe was going to break away, but I no longer think so.   

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Joe has been pretty tacky towards Ben. It started with his funky tone when questioning of Ben's windshield repair gig(at least Ben had a job, what exactly does Joseph do all day?) Then the laziness when they were trying to load the stink bus for Erin Bateses wedding. And then the appalling way he talked down to Ben before the stupid dinner theater thing...Joseph needs to stop with the shitty attitude.

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I've always thought Joseph a bit lumpish tbh. Hopefully he'll grow out of it but everything about him right now screams typical not-terribly-clever yet horribly smug yob with a male entitlement complex the size of Arkansas. Since John David has been travelling down that road as well (and Smuggar has always been... well, smug) this seems to be a Duggar trait. Once they're done with puberty the Jim Boob gene kicks in or something. I can only hope it will pass Josiah by; he seems to be a nice boy and hopefully the ALERT re-programming wont change that.

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Regarding Joseph's treatment towards Ben---something tells me that was probably stuff production told Joseph to say to get a scene.  The way Joseph seems to be I would guess if the camera wasnt' there he probably would not have asked Ben anything like that. 

 

I agree that Joseph doesnt come off all that smart.  I dont know how much of that is due to being uncomfortable on camera.  I consider myself an intelligent person (always had high test scores great grades in school for whatever stock you put into that), but I am shy and especially when meeting new people sometimes what my brain is telling me to say and what actually comes out of my mouth are not always in agreement.  I think there is a certain amount of that going on with Joseph as it is clear he doesnt like the cameras.

Edited by Joan van Snark

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Joe seems like the typical older Duggar boy whenever he makes a speaking appearance on the show - dimwitted, slow, but utterly convinced of his own genius. 

 

I just hope Josiah, Jed and Jer continue to buck the trend of Duggar boys being self-impressed schmucks, because they seem like great kids.

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I'm betting that if enough money gets waved in Jinger's face, she'll write the tell all and pose for Playboy. She looks like she is looking for an escape route. Someone has to break free, right?

 

Have you noticed we don't hear about John David much anymore?  Is it because he doesn't like to be on camera, or do you think he's quietly exiting out, then only showing up for the necessary photo ops?  He's not a bad looking guy, and if that towing business is really his, at 24 he's a good catch, Fundie or not

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Have you noticed we don't hear about John David much anymore?  ... He's not a bad looking guy ...

 

You're talking about John David Duggar, right??

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Aethera

If your post is not PRIMARILY about the Duggars, it will be removed. Please stick to the topic or take it to Small Talk, thank you.

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