Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[ouinason]

If it doesn't take her longer just to shower than it does to fry that bacon and put a bagel in the toaster, she's doing something wrong.

[emmawoodhouse]

14 minutes ago, ouinason said:

If it doesn't take her longer just to shower than it does to fry that bacon and put a bagel in the toaster, she's doing something wrong.

She's said in the past that she showers at night. So, basically getting ready would consist of doing her hair and makeup.

[jcbrown]

11 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Okay, this is one of my biggest hang-ups. Food does not belong in the bathroom, EVER. Sorry, I just feel very strongly about this.

Completely co-signed. My husband will make himself a cappuccino and then take it with him into the bathroom. Just no.

Agreed that she grew up like this, though.

[anna0852]

1st, food the bathroom is gross. But at the same time Jill grew up in such a dysfunctional situation. She literally hid in the bathroom as a child to eat because it was the only way she got enough to eat. I'm not gonna judge her for not magically overcoming her childhood trauma because she is now an adult. There's no trauma off switch. She is working with a therapist, which is wonderful and a huge step forward for her. But it's not a magic pill, it's work and it may be work she does for the rest of her life. I think Turkey bacon and toast in the bathroom is not a great idea. But I'm really glad there's another adult out there who's genuinely trying to do nice things for her. Who presumably cares about her and her happiness and her comfort and her over all quality of life. Jill has never had that before. She didn't grow up in a secure family, she's just now experiencing that in the last few years. I'm really really glad for her or that she finally gets to have this.

[emmawoodhouse]

 

[Oldernowiser]

Okay, fair’s fair, that’s the best Derrick has looked since pre-Duggar. That haircut suits him.

[emmawoodhouse]

Some different pics from Jill. Izzy's mask is hilarious.

 

[Zella]

9 minutes ago, Oldernowiser said:

Okay, fair’s fair, that’s the best Derrick has looked since pre-Duggar. That haircut suits him.

I think he's gained a little weight, too--he looks less alarmingly skeletal than he did. 

[Westiepeach]

I am also in the “no food in the bathroom ever camp.” But, when I worked for someone else, before I started my own business, I did drink my morning tea in the half bath while I did my makeup. But I only drank my tea. Any food was eaten in the dining room/kitchen area.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Westiepeach

[GeeGolly]

Izzy looks to have shot up a little. I think he's leaning toward long and lean like Derick. Did Jessa do Dan's son's hair?

[libgirl2]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:16 AM, GeeGolly said:

Okay, this is one of my biggest hang-ups. Food does not belong in the bathroom, EVER. Sorry, I just feel very strongly about this.

I have eaten in the bathroom a few times when running late. Now that I have a master bath, I don't need to. 

On 10/17/2020 at 9:56 AM, Nysha said:

No! Turkey bacon is a crime against humanity. It taste like store-brand, fat-free bologna, they use food coloring to make it look like bacon, and you have to almost burn it to make it crisp.

We like it. 

[crazy8s]

34 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Some different pics from Jill. Izzy's mask is hilarious.

my grandson, who is also in Kindergarten, has the same mask. he loves it

[Tikichick]

On 10/17/2020 at 9:37 PM, anna0852 said:

1st, food the bathroom is gross. But at the same time Jill grew up in such a dysfunctional situation. She literally hid in the bathroom as a child to eat because it was the only way she got enough to eat. I'm not gonna judge her for not magically overcoming her childhood trauma because she is now an adult. There's no trauma off switch. She is working with a therapist, which is wonderful and a huge step forward for her. But it's not a magic pill, it's work and it may be work she does for the rest of her life. I think Turkey bacon and toast in the bathroom is not a great idea. But I'm really glad there's another adult out there who's genuinely trying to do nice things for her. Who presumably cares about her and her happiness and her comfort and her over all quality of life. Jill has never had that before. She didn't grow up in a secure family, she's just now experiencing that in the last few years. I'm really really glad for her or that she finally gets to have this.

And Jill grew up in the TTH.   Every time I see the place in a photo or onscreen all I can think of is the pervasive stench it likely has.   I give any of them immense props for having any notion about personal or household hygiene and cleanliness because they have had to learn it on their own IMO. 

My daughter roomed with and became good friends in college with someone who was actively blocked from learning about basic household lifeskills by a mentally ill parent actively plotting for ways to stifle her daughter and retain control.   My very particularly tidy daughter at first struggled to understand her friend genuinely didn't have a clue about things my daughter felt an eight year old's common sense could have riddled out.   Once she understood the situation it was a lot easier to put up with the chaotic messes and she was actually able to help her friend learn -- something that continued when they graduated and the friend moved out of state for a job and to make a permanent break with the mother.   My daughter essentially helped steer her friend into what necessities she needed to set up independent housekeeping, what was immediate, what could wait, what pricepoints and quality considerations were important to watch, etc. -- including purchasing clothing she could wear to work because she had dressed in college generally in black jeans, tees and sweats for the most part because she struggled with the concept of color sorting, etc. in doing laundry.   

I think of how crippling things like lack of basic life skills, social skills and education can be to people raised like the Duggars.  Suddenly the idea of Duggar time isn't just weird and ridiculous, but something that can easily derail a person's choices and opportunities in life.    

[Dimi1]

2 hours ago, Tikichick said:

And Jill grew up in the TTH.   Every time I see the place in a photo or onscreen all I can think of is the pervasive stench it likely has.   I give any of them immense props for having any notion about personal or household hygiene and cleanliness because they have had to learn it on their own IMO. 

My daughter roomed with and became good friends in college with someone who was actively blocked from learning about basic household lifeskills by a mentally ill parent actively plotting for ways to stifle her daughter and retain control.   My very particularly tidy daughter at first struggled to understand her friend genuinely didn't have a clue about things my daughter felt an eight year old's common sense could have riddled out.   Once she understood the situation it was a lot easier to put up with the chaotic messes and she was actually able to help her friend learn -- something that continued when they graduated and the friend moved out of state for a job and to make a permanent break with the mother.   My daughter essentially helped steer her friend into what necessities she needed to set up independent housekeeping, what was immediate, what could wait, what pricepoints and quality considerations were important to watch, etc. -- including purchasing clothing she could wear to work because she had dressed in college generally in black jeans, tees and sweats for the most part because she struggled with the concept of color sorting, etc. in doing laundry.   

I think of how crippling things like lack of basic life skills, social skills and education can be to people raised like the Duggars.  Suddenly the idea of Duggar time isn't just weird and ridiculous, but something that can easily derail a person's choices and opportunities in life.    

that is why I think everyone should learn money management/ banking and even investing in school....:)...I am amazed at some people who cannot grasp money/ banking / bills etc...

[hathorlive]

7 hours ago, Dimi1 said:

that is why I think everyone should learn money management/ banking and even investing in school....:)...I am amazed at some people who cannot grasp money/ banking / bills etc...

 My BFF grew up in extreme poverty and when she moved to a very snowy climate, I had to convince her to buy snow boots.  She literally thought that vented Nikes would get the job down and hated wasted money on non-necessities.  Jill grew up in the same way and you never truly get over not having enough food or having to hide in a bathroom to make sure you get something to eat.  Eating in the bathroom is probably even comforting to her, as it was a time of having food and being fulfilled.  My friend is extremely successful and I still have to convince her buy nice kitchen pans or perfume.  I don't think the older Duggar kids will ever get over that.  Josh moved out and immediately started stuffing his face.  Jessa's indifference to cleaning probably stems from having to be a handmaid and sister mom from a young age. I wonder if JD's obsession with flying fulfills his need to escape his family.  And with that, this moment of pop psychology is over.  (Though to be a fair I do have a masters in psychology, so...).

[QuinnInND]

 

[anna0852]

Fresh produce, on a real plate. A genuine smile and it doesn't look like this is a posed moment. And Izzy is apparently enjoying olives, which is not something every kid goes for and speaks to him having a fairly varied diet. Good job Jill!

[Absolom]

Fresh produce.  Jill has learned a few things.  

[awaken]

1 hour ago, hathorlive said:

 My BFF grew up in extreme poverty and when she moved to a very snowy climate, I had to convince her to buy snow boots.  She literally thought that vented Nikes would get the job down and hated wasted money on non-necessities.  Jill grew up in the same way and you never truly get over not having enough food or having to hide in a bathroom to make sure you get something to eat.  Eating in the bathroom is probably even comforting to her, as it was a time of having food and being fulfilled.  My friend is extremely successful and I still have to convince her buy nice kitchen pans or perfume.  I don't think the older Duggar kids will ever get over that.  Josh moved out and immediately started stuffing his face.  Jessa's indifference to cleaning probably stems from having to be a handmaid and sister mom from a young age. I wonder if JD's obsession with flying fulfills his need to escape his family.  And with that, this moment of pop psychology is over.  (Though to be a fair I do have a masters in psychology, so...).

Don’t forget joes plate licking!  That’s got to have deep meaning. 

[hathorlive]

10 minutes ago, awaken said:

Don’t forget joes plate licking!  That’s got to have deep meaning. 

Not even going to hazard a guess on that one.  They are one strange family for sure.

[madpsych78]

The Cuties as pumpkins is actually a really good idea. I think I might try that.

[Zella]

Didn't someone else besides Joe lick plates? (Not counting Josie.) By the time you tally up all the Duggar offspring who have manifested some sort of dysfunctional relationship with food, it presents a pretty sobering picture of what was likely going on behind closed doors. 

[emmawoodhouse]

I'm sure there were other plate lickers, but Joe really had a bad reputation. Kendra made note of it on their honeymoon episode. She already knew, and they hadn't even lived together! 

[Zella]

48 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I'm sure there were other plate lickers, but Joe really had a bad reputation. Kendra made note of it on their honeymoon episode. She already knew, and they hadn't even lived together! 

I could have sworn someone said one of the girls licked plates too. I want to point the finger at Jessa (or Joy?), but I might be completely off in left field with that. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Zella

[SMama]

I didn’t watch the episode but Joe allegedly stated Jessa taught him to lick his plate.

[Zella]

51 minutes ago, SMama said:

I didn’t watch the episode but Joe allegedly stated Jessa taught him to lick his plate.

Thank you! That's what was clawing around vaguely in my brain. 

[GeeGolly]

I don't see any of the Duggars having a weird relationship with food and I don't think any of them even thought they were that poor. I'm guessing Jill attributes her need to hide in the bathroom to eat, to having too many greedy siblings rather than her parents struggling with finances. 

If you look back at pictures and early specials, the pantry was always stocked, they had plenty of clothing and the yard was filled with tricycles and bicycles and such. They always had a roof over their heads, cars in the driveway and a big RV to travel in.

Even if they were getting food offerings left on their porch, the kids likely thought they were gifts. All their money saving ways was always attributed to managing a big family as well. And other worldly things that are a sign of financial success, they shunned due to their beliefs - "doing things a little differently".

I'm guessing some of the adult Duggars may be able to look back now, as adults, and realize they lived on much less money, but when they were kids, I don't think they noticed, nor do I think they worried where their next meal was coming from.

[Albanyguy]

1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't see any of the Duggars having a weird relationship with food and I don't think any of them even thought they were that poor. I'm guessing Jill attributes her need to hide in the bathroom to eat, to having too many greedy siblings rather than her parents struggling with finances. 

If you look back at pictures and early specials, the pantry was always stocked, they had plenty of clothing and the yard was filled with tricycles and bicycles and such. They always had a roof over their heads, cars in the driveway and a big RV to travel in.

Even if they were getting food offerings left on their porch, the kids likely thought they were gifts. All their money saving ways was always attributed to managing a big family as well. And other worldly things that are a sign of financial success, they shunned due to their beliefs - "doing things a little differently".

I'm guessing some of the adult Duggars may be able to look back now, as adults, and realize they lived on much less money, but when they were kids, I don't think they noticed, nor do I think they worried where their next meal was coming from.

I didn’t consider that, but I think you’ve  hit the nail on the head. We’ve seen many examples of the Duggars’ cruel sense of “humor”, always finding laughter at the pain of others. I’m sure that as children, they were all quite mean to each other. I can see Josh, for example, finding it hilarious to taunt his sisters by grabbing food off their plates and cramming it in his mouth or dangling it just beyond their reach. And I can’t see Jim Bob or Michelle caring enough to step in and stop it. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Albanyguy

[LoquaciousAudacity]

Jill Duggar Dillard Opens Up About Distancing from Her Family: 'I Never Expected This to Happen'

 

New People article with new pictures. Not a ton of new information, but I found this quote interesting: "I never expected this to happen or for it to get to this point," Jill says. "But I'm realizing I can't put a timeline on healing. I love my family and they love me. I really just have to follow God's lead and take it one day at a time."

Also, this "statement" from Jim Bob and Me-chelle, sounds like there is still a major rift: ""Every family has differences of opinion and perspective at times, but families work things out. We all love Jill, Derick, and their boys very much.  It is our prayer that our relationship is healed and fully restored quickly!"

[GeeGolly]

Interesting that JB & M issued a statement.

The article adds a couple of new items and repeats much of what Jill and Derick have shared, but they're still putting their own spin on it. This quote is very telling, "But in 2017, she made the surprising decision to quietly quit the show." 

[rue721]

JB is a control freak and Jill is being "disobedient"... I don't know that he'll ever actually forgive her. This must be heartbreaking for Jill. I went through a quasi-estrangement that seems pretty similar to Jill/JB's when I moved away to start my own life as an adult and my mother couldn't accept it (she felt abandoned, jealous, who knows) -- it was extremely painful at the time, but nearly a decade later (and after I spent two years in therapy) our relationship is very strong. I put a LOT of work into it and my mother has changed a bit, too. I hope for Jill's sake that she'll also be able to rebuild her relationship with her father so that it's stronger than ever, it's definitely worth it. But these were NOT easy years and...I dunno, I think Jill would be up for doing that work, but I don't know that JB ever would be.

[Jeeves]

39 minutes ago, LoquaciousAudacity said:

Also, this "statement" from Jim Bob and Me-chelle, sounds like there is still a major rift: ""Every family has differences of opinion and perspective at times, but families work things out. We all love Jill, Derick, and their boys very much.  It is our prayer that our relationship is healed and fully restored quickly!"

I think what they mean is that it's fully restored to the prior status quo, where JB and Meech are in control. 

[doodlebug]

3 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

I didn’t consider that, but I think you’ve  hit the nail on the head. We’ve seen many examples of the Duggars’ cruel sense of “humor”, always finding laughter at the pain of others. I’m sure that as children, they were all quite mean to each other. I can see Josh, for example, finding it hilarious to taunt his sisters by grabbing food off their plates and cramming it in his mouth or dangling it just beyond their reach. And I can’t see Jim Bob or Michelle caring enough to step in and stop it. 

Quote

"Sometimes," she says, "it's a good thing being okay with other people not being okay."

Boy, does that statement need to be printed on a cocktail napkin and distributed far and wide.   

Interesting that the People article doesn't mention the disputes over money that Derick has repeatedly posted about.  I guess Jill figures its best not to dwell on that, but instead to talk about how their lives were circumscribed by the family and the show.  And, I think she's right, they never would've been able to buy a home away from the compound, nor would Derick have been allowed to attend law school full time, if they'd continued on the show.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, rue721 said:

JB is a control freak and Jill is being "disobedient"... I don't know that he'll ever actually forgive her. This must be heartbreaking for Jill. I went through a quasi-estrangement that seems pretty similar to Jill/JB's when I moved away to start my own life as an adult and my mother couldn't accept it (she felt abandoned, jealous, who knows) -- it was extremely painful at the time, but nearly a decade later (and after I spent two years in therapy) our relationship is very strong. I put a LOT of work into it and my mother has changed a bit, too. I hope for Jill's sake that she'll also be able to rebuild her relationship with her father so that it's stronger than ever, it's definitely worth it. But these were NOT easy years and...I dunno, I think Jill would be up for doing that work, but I don't know that JB ever would be.

I do believe JB will work on repairing the relationship. First, because I believe he loves his kids and second because its what is best for his family and his brand.

In Josh's thread we are discussing some what ifs in regard to why he is who he is. I think the same discussion could be had with JB. What would he look like if they hadn't started following Gothard? My thoughts are he'd look very different. I don't think JB is the narcissist others do. I think he is insecure and the Gothard bullshit gave him an opportunity to feel secure, because JB is a follower, a follower of rules and beliefs. The Gothard bullshit also allowed stroking of his insecure ego. JB, Josh and Jessa are very similar.

I think the most likely impediment of repairing the Dillard/Duggar relationship is Derick. Derick is probably a bit like JB was when JB was in his 20s.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

I think what they mean is that it's fully restored to the prior status quo, where JB and Meech are in control. 

I think that is EXACTLY what they mean.  JB and Meechelle are not interested in relationships with their children as autonomous adults.

[doodlebug]

1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

I do believe JB will work on repairing the relationship. First, because I believe he loves his kids and second because its what is best for his family and his brand.

In Josh's thread we are discussing some what ifs in regard to why he is who he is. I think the same discussion could be had with JB. What would he look like if they hadn't started following Gothard? My thoughts are he'd look very different. I don't think JB is the narcissist others do. I think he is insecure and the Gothard bullshit gave him an opportunity to feel secure, because JB is a follower, a follower of rules and beliefs. The Gothard bullshit also allowed stroking of his insecure ego. JB, Josh and Jessa are very similar.

I think the most likely impediment of repairing the Dillard/Duggar relationship is Derick. Derick is probably a bit like JB was when JB was in his 20s.

I think JB's idea of 'repair' is not compromise, but control and he is only willing to resume a relationship with Jill and Derick if he is acknowledged as the patriarch and leader.  I don't see Derick, or even Jill, being willing to concede that to him.  They seem to be enjoying their lives far more than they did under JB's thumb.

[Scarlett45]

22 hours ago, Tikichick said:

And Jill grew up in the TTH.   Every time I see the place in a photo or onscreen all I can think of is the pervasive stench it likely has.   I give any of them immense props for having any notion about personal or household hygiene and cleanliness because they have had to learn it on their own IMO. 

My daughter roomed with and became good friends in college with someone who was actively blocked from learning about basic household lifeskills by a mentally ill parent actively plotting for ways to stifle her daughter and retain control.   My very particularly tidy daughter at first struggled to understand her friend genuinely didn't have a clue about things my daughter felt an eight year old's common sense could have riddled out.   Once she understood the situation it was a lot easier to put up with the chaotic messes and she was actually able to help her friend learn -- something that continued when they graduated and the friend moved out of state for a job and to make a permanent break with the mother.   My daughter essentially helped steer her friend into what necessities she needed to set up independent housekeeping, what was immediate, what could wait, what pricepoints and quality considerations were important to watch, etc. -- including purchasing clothing she could wear to work because she had dressed in college generally in black jeans, tees and sweats for the most part because she struggled with the concept of color sorting, etc. in doing laundry.   

I think of how crippling things like lack of basic life skills, social skills and education can be to people raised like the Duggars.  Suddenly the idea of Duggar time isn't just weird and ridiculous, but something that can easily derail a person's choices and opportunities in life.    

Your daughter's roommate sounds very much like my friend who grew up fundy- but escaped the lifestyle due to a lot of factors (one of which being a lesbian and knowing she couldn't be quiverfull.)

 

What many of us deem "common sense" really isn't common. I admit being bias assuming that everyone is "raised"- now I always knew some people didn't have parents, but I assumed that someone loved them and raised them (a grandparent, aunt/uncle etc)- tons of adults out in the world weren't "raised"- like knowing how to wash their damn hands properly!

Jill has only been out of the TTH for 6yrs, in the grand scheme of things that is not a lot of time. She is growing and learning. I do have to say that I always saw Jill as a natural empathetic and caring person, I look at how well she instinctually looked after her buddy group. I dont see her as "lazy" the way I do Jessa (remember that diaper mountain) but ill informed. 

[rue721]

4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I do believe JB will work on repairing the relationship. First, because I believe he loves his kids and second because its what is best for his family and his brand.

I honestly don't think he has it in him. He's been catered to and has been king of his little fiefdom for decades, and he's developed odd, grandious dreams like founding a "tribe" that lives on his compound. Maybe he was capable of emotional growth years ago...but I don't really think he is now. I doubt he'll ever be able to see things from a perspective other than his own, let alone from Jill's. But for Jill's sake, I also hope that isn't true.

[CindyBee]

JB's head must have exploded when he found out Jill & Derrick were getting a small blurb on the cover of People.  

I like the fact that Jill did the photo shoot in her jeans with holes in them--got to make sure everyone sees how "edgy" she's trying to be.  And I like that.  

Good luck to Jill as she navigates this new chapter of her life journey as breaking away from what you knew as a child/adolescent is never, ever easy.

[Genevrier]

16 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

30 minutes ago, rue721 said:

 

I do believe JB will work on repairing the relationship. First, because I believe he loves his kids and second because its what is best for his family and his brand.

In Josh's thread we are discussing some what ifs in regard to why he is who he is. I think the same discussion could be had with JB. What would he look like if they hadn't started following Gothard? My thoughts are he'd look very different. I don't think JB is the narcissist others do. I think he is insecure

I don’t see it happening unless Jill and Derrick crash completely on their own, or there’s a monetary advantage to JB for the reconciliation.

I would also like to say that narcissists are deeply insecure. I’m not sure everyone understands that. In fact I think the disorder is rooted in insecurity. I could go on about this for a while, but it’s probably better for everyone if I refrain.

[Growsonwalls]

I just find it very telling that JB to this day maintains a close relationship with Josh and Anna when it was Josh's behavior that caused the show to be canceled and damaged the Duggar brand. But there's a rift with Jill because she ... wears pants? Had a glass of wine? Cut her hair? 

I am glad that Jessa and Joy seem to be supportive of Jill. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Growsonwalls

[GeeGolly]

39 minutes ago, Genevrier said:

I would also like to say that narcissists are deeply insecure. I’m not sure everyone understands that. In fact I think the disorder is rooted in insecurity. I could go on about this for a while, but it’s probably better for everyone if I refrain.

Yes some narcissists are insecure, but its not a criteria in meeting a diagnosis, nor the root cause. Many folks who aren't narcissists are insecure as well. I understand why he's been labeled a narcissist, but I don't see JB meeting the criteria for a narcissism diagnosis. Narcissists have few friends and are barely tolerated by others and are humbled by nothing. Everything in their world is pervasive, extreme and excessive. A narcissist would not be able to follow the rules of another man like Gothard. A narcissist would not be able to give credit to the Bible. I see traits of conceit, of 'wanna be' and need for some control in JB, but I don't see a true narcissist.

[Scarlett45]

8 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

I just find it very telling that JB to this day maintains a close relationship with Josh and Anna when it was Josh's behavior that caused the show to be canceled and damaged the Duggar brand. But there's a rift with Jill because she ... wears pants? Had a glass of wine? Cut her hair? 

I am glad that Jessa and Joy seem to be supportive of Jill. 

But he can control Josh. He can’t control Jill and Derrick any more- they are doing their own thing. Josh is still functioning under JB’s umbrella.....so he is accepted no matter how big of an actual fuck up he was. 

[Oldernowiser]

I wonder if Josh serves JB as a cautionary tale as to what happens when you leave the umbrella and get a real job, such as it was. Then Satan built a fortress in his penis, blablabla. 
Good to see Jill go public with her side. 

[Jeeves]

6 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

But he can control Josh. He can’t control Jill and Derrick any more- they are doing their own thing. Josh is still functioning under JB’s umbrella.....so he is accepted no matter how big of an actual fuck up he was. 

I don't have any personal opinion on this, but I have read that Josh is Michelle's favorite child. If true, that might also account for his remaining solidly in the fold. 

[Growsonwalls]

6 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Yes some narcissists are insecure, but its not a criteria in meeting a diagnosis, nor the root cause. Many folks who aren't narcissists are insecure as well. I understand why he's been labeled a narcissist, but I don't see JB meeting the criteria for a narcissism diagnosis. Narcissists have few friends and are barely tolerated by others and are humbled by nothing. Everything in their world is pervasive, extreme and excessive. A narcissist would not be able to follow the rules of another man like Gothard. A narcissist would not be able to give credit to the Bible. I see traits of conceit, of 'wanna be' and need for some control in JB, but I don't see a true narcissist.

Narcissists are actually good at maintaining the appearance of good relationships. People do eventually sour on them but they can be charming and personable. 

I'm not sure JB is a narcissist. I think he's more like a grifter. He figured out that there's a certain market for a super-large, super-Christian family and knows how to milk that gravy train.

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Growsonwalls said:

Narcissists are actually good at maintaining the appearance of good relationships. People do eventually sour on them but they can be charming and personable. 

I'm not sure JB is a narcissist. I think he's more like a grifter. He figured out that there's a certain market for a super-large, super-Christian family and knows how to milk that gravy train.

Agree they are initially seen as charming and personable, but relationships don't last for two reasons. Either the narcissist gets offended or no longer has use for someone or the friend of a narcissist sees their true colors and runs for the hills.

[Zella]

6 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't see any of the Duggars having a weird relationship with food and I don't think any of them even thought they were that poor. I'm guessing Jill attributes her need to hide in the bathroom to eat, to having too many greedy siblings rather than her parents struggling with finances. 

If you look back at pictures and early specials, the pantry was always stocked, they had plenty of clothing and the yard was filled with tricycles and bicycles and such. They always had a roof over their heads, cars in the driveway and a big RV to travel in.

Even if they were getting food offerings left on their porch, the kids likely thought they were gifts. All their money saving ways was always attributed to managing a big family as well. And other worldly things that are a sign of financial success, they shunned due to their beliefs - "doing things a little differently".

I'm guessing some of the adult Duggars may be able to look back now, as adults, and realize they lived on much less money, but when they were kids, I don't think they noticed, nor do I think they worried where their next meal was coming from.

I didn't mean in the sense of them being starved like the Rodrigues kids. But as someone who has a really fucked-up relationship with eating and food that I can trace back to a particular traumatic moment in my childhood and is quite separate from my family's finances (like, I once noped out of a questionnaire on the subject as soon as I started reading the questions because I could tell how badly I was going to score), I just see some parallels in some of what they do, even if I'm not doing the exact same things. To me, the plate licking from multiple siblings, Jill eating in the bathroom, and even Josh's overeating like there is no tomorrow seem to be indicative of something, even if it is just wanting to have some control when they felt like they had no control in their lives. As I've mentioned on here before, I have also wondered about Josie licking things. I used to think that was just because she was a nasty feral child, but then after reading some bios about Chris Farley that talked about how debilitating his compulsion was to lick random objects, I have wondered if there is more to it. 

I never thought Jill was eating in the bathroom because she was poor. I felt like she was eating in the bathroom because she may have been an introvert or just needed some alone time and that was the only way she got it. 

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I think what they mean is that it's fully restored to the prior status quo, where JB and Meech are in control. 

I thought the same thing. Also the phrasing makes me think they're not really deeply invested in putting effort into changing the situation beyond praying. 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Zella

[libgirl2]

2 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I think what they mean is that it's fully restored to the prior status quo, where JB and Meech are in control. 

I agree 100%. 

[Ohiopirate02]

9 minutes ago, Zella said:

I thought the same thing. Also the phrasing makes me think they're not really deeply invested in putting effort into changing the situation beyond praying. 

And their prayers are all of the Lord-Jesus-please-fix-Jill-and-her-husband-Derick variety.  They are going to admit any fault.