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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

Chris Knight

By Chris Knight
in Counting On

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Shout out to everyone participating in the conversation about Jill’s miscarriage/stillbirth. You’re navigating a difficult topic with respect and thoughtfulness and your contributions are kind, considerate, constructive and informative. 

Thank you. 💚💚

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

Some very good observations here. I think that Jill is an immature control freak. From that very heavily edited birth episode of Jill's, we'll never know what really happened. I think it was so edited to hide Jill's poor decision making with her own body and child. Why was she shielded from the indignity that Anna endured on national television?

 I also don't think that she and Derick are continuing any  real friendships at all with his friends from college. I don't know what to say about Derick....he is disappointing to say the least; sad that his very good real college education seems to be wasted on him at this point.

 

Yes indeed. I remember a lot of us having a great deal of optimism when Jill & Derick became engaged, of being very hopeful that Derick would be "freeing" Jill from her parents & previous life - introducing her to new things and broadening her views. Up to now, however, it seems as though exactly the opposite has happened. IMO, Derick has been well-and-truly Duggar-ized. He's turned out to be nearly JUST what Boob hoped he'd be - a lump of soggy, malleable clay. And not for nothing, but I'm guessing Boob is getting a whole bunch of free accounting help and advice from his female cat son-in-law.

 

Also, I'm not at all sure how good an education Derick received. Education is supposed to introduce people to NEW concepts, theories and attitudes. And ALL sides of a past issue. Only when you have the broadest-possible exposure to virtually anything can you even BEGIN to understand it. This means it's vital to take classes in a wide range of subjects and some in which you have little or no previous experience. Without having seen a copy of Pistol Pete's transcript, I have to wonder... Did he ever take any history classes of ANY kind? And 'History of Christianity' doesn't count here, D. How about sociology, psychology, anthropology, philosophy? Art or music history? How about a survey course in world religions? Haven't you ever been curious, Derick, as to why SO many other people on the planet have different religious beliefs from you? Haven't you ever wondered why there are MILLIONS of people who think YOU are on the wrong path? Do you really think that you are so very special to have been gifted with Christianity, and the right kind of Christianity to boot? And billions of other people down through Time were simply not good enough for that? I think this is the single biggest fact that has frustrated me about fundies and evangelicals. I've never seen people who are SO VERY CERTAIN they are right, and so certain everyone else is wrong.

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Micks Picks

Micks Picks

Their bible quotes that punctuate all their posts, with their interpretations, make me want to punch them.  They can't just say Jill got her CFM and tell us about that, no they have to instruct us on the bible.  Everything they do seems so shady that it must be hidden behind the bible.  I could not stand to talk to them in person and it would not be possible to have an interactive discussion with them or to learn anything from them.  I know they would not learn anything from me because they don't want to.  The bible has become their shield between their inadequacy and the world.

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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

They don't even have a Wikipedia entry.

 

Wow.

Derick is holding something that says The North American Registry of Midwives, but the photo can't be enlarged enough for me to read anything that Jill is holding clearly, even on a computer. It might say North American Registry of Midwives, too.

 

ETA: If I may float a crazy conspiracy theory, I swear to God it looks like they're standing in front of a Public Library. Five bucks says that they received the letter that she had passed with exam with an emblem sticker and an access code to print out her certificate from the testing website. Buy some fancy paper and you've got yourself a diploma, y'all! 

 

The Duggars doing this? Wouldn't surprise me one bit.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

Their bible quotes that punctuate all their posts, with their interpretations, make me want to punch them. 

 

I would expect to see these in their grocery lists, actually.

 

3 can baked beans    Woe unto you, Oh Israel.

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louannems

louannems

From the blog:

Reading her use of the word "clinicals" is probably the most I've ever been disgusted by the whole Duggar clan. This is offensive to all medical and allied health professionals who had a true clinical work as a part of their accredited education.

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louannems

louannems

My clinical, as a radiographic technologist, was this:

First year, Mon, Wd, Fri, all day in class on campus, and Tues, Thurs, in clinical on site, at the hospital, 8 hours per day.

Second year, Tues and Thurs in class, and M-W-F at the hospital, 8 hour shifts.

BOTH summers, clinical were 40 hour shifts per week, at the hospital. We rotated through 8 different hospitals, and we paid full tuition for this student work.

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Julia

Julia

(edited)

One person said that CPMs and CNMs are basically the same thing, and they receive equivalent training to that of doctors.

Now that we know Jill attended her 40 required deliveries over a period of many years, it makes it even less likely that she has even minimal skills.  I didn't feel ready to do deliveries all on my own after doing 162 vaginal births in a yeasr; Jill apparently assisted/performed fewer than one delivery a month.  Delivering a baby is a manual skill and it needs to be done time and time again so it becomes habitual and muscle memory takes over.  I doubt anyone could learn to tie their shoes or ride a bike if they only attempted once a month.  How could Jill ever develop the skills needed to deliver babies?  IMO, she couldn't.

My clinical, as a radiographic technologist, was this:

First year, Mon, Wd, Fri, all day in class on campus, and Tues, Thurs, in clinical on site, at the hospital, 8 hours per day.

Second year, Tues and Thurs in class, and M-W-F at the hospital, 8 hour shifts.

BOTH summers, clinical were 40 hour shifts per week, at the hospital. We rotated through 8 different hospitals, and we paid full tuition for this student work.

 

And this, with all due respect to the faith these folks feel, is why they get taken advantage of as often as they do. Because I'm sure most of the people abreacting in comments have no idea what Jill claims her qualifications are, or what exactly medical professionals do and how they learn to and prepare for doing it. They know people are being mean to that nice christian girl, they assume it's because she _is_ christian, they know what team they're on, and they're not having that.

 

Because their politicians may lie to them and use them, and shady preachers growing rich off of poor people is such a cliché nobody even pays attention to it any more. But dammit, they can shout down the unbelievers on Instagram and vote for people who may be moving their jobs overseas, but they can be counted on to at least _try_ to deny the homosexuals wedding cakes.

 

God must be so thrilled.

Edited by Julia
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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

 

Would make more sense than the Texas school I scared up on the internet. Since this one mentions Jesus in every paragraph, and that one mentioned Texas licensure instead. I doubt Jill'd be happy with one that didn't have a lot of bible verses.

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Absolom

Absolom

(edited)

I'm not so sure because the one I listed that someone told me was what Jill used is in AR and Jill said Texas. The Texas school also has the time at the school shown on a schedule that matches what Jill described.

Edited by Absolom
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phoenix62

phoenix62

My clinical, as a radiographic technologist, was this:

First year, Mon, Wd, Fri, all day in class on campus, and Tues, Thurs, in clinical on site, at the hospital, 8 hours per day.

Second year, Tues and Thurs in class, and M-W-F at the hospital, 8 hour shifts.

BOTH summers, clinical were 40 hour shifts per week, at the hospital. We rotated through 8 different hospitals, and we paid full tuition for this student work.

I had to do the same in respiratory school.
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Liz Tudor

Liz Tudor

WTF!?

ah, the Prancersize Lady. They had her on all the interview shows last year. It was hilarious, because she is dead serious about Prancersize. She is cute as a bug, but a little nutters. There's a great video of her out there they filmed recently of her Prancercizing in a pasture of running horses (great drone footage from above). They were looking at her, as if to say WTF? I only know about it because someone shared ALL her videos with my exercise boot camp class. We were peeing our pants.
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doodlebug

doodlebug

(edited)

$2,000 total maximum cost?  What a cheap program.  JB probably made her pay her own way too.

You get what you pay for.

 

I also noticed that they say their training is equivalent to 24 college credits, in other words, less than a year's worth at most colleges.  And, a portion of those credits are in studying scripture which caters to their typical student but doesn't exactly contain a lot of practical information on the subject of birthin' babies.  I did a lot of praying in med school, but I did it on my own time, usually right before an exam.  I presume most students who choose to attend a fundie Christian CPM school would probably be able to do Bible study on their own time, especially since it seems like the coursework is only a part-time commitment.

 

The school's 22 midwifery modules take up to an average of 20 hours to complete according to the website.  Presuming every module takes that long, it would be 440 hours of study total, which apparently accounts for the student to read it through once and also to review it to pass an exam.  Presuming the student did this full-time 8 hours a day, we're talking a grand total of 15 weeks for the whole shebang.  There are also 20 modules of 'skills' and Bible study and such, which apparently take about two hours apiece, adding another week to the coursework or a total of 4 months or so in class to become a genuwine lay midwife (I refuse to call them professionals).  In contrast, a nurse midwife, in addition to a 4 year Bachelor's degree in nursing and usually a couple of years' work as a nurse, spends at least a year In full time class work before doing clinical work.  And, of course, we're talking 8 hours a day of classes followed by several hours every evening to study.

 

If anyone is interested, my medical school, which is pretty typical, had 8 hours a day of lectures 5 days a week for the first 15 months.  It was expected that we would spend 3-5 hours studying outside of class every day.  And, of course, prior to med school, I attended a real high school with honors chemistry, physics and biology and advanced math followed by a BS in Genetics in undergrad.  Yeah, Jill and her CPM pals have just as much training and skill as a CNM or MD.  Actually, the medical assistant who works with me spent more time on her studies than Jill did.

Edited by doodlebug
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Wellfleet

Wellfleet

Every single Duggar and every single person known to the Duggars seems to be a "jack of all trades, master of none," type of person.

 

Vanessa delivers babies, teaches zumba, plans wedding, and hosts baby showers. Sierra is a party planner and dessert maker. John David does constable work, construction work, piloting, dabbles in politics, etc. 

 

I could go on. 

 

They have to be skilled at many things, because they don't want to pay for the services and expertise of qualified, trained, competent individuals. I pity the kid who pulls the "undertaker" card out of the hat. Assuming they'll go that route of course. Maybe they'll just go with a refrigerator box and be done with it...

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yankee1151

yankee1151

They have to be skilled at many things, because they don't want to pay for the services and expertise of qualified, trained, competent individuals. I pity the kid who pulls the "undertaker" card out of the hat. Assuming they'll go that route of course. Maybe they'll just go with a refrigerator box and be done with it...

or an ammo box.

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Churchhoney

Churchhoney

I pity the kid who pulls the "undertaker" card out of the hat. Assuming they'll go that route of course. Maybe they'll just go with a refrigerator box and be done with it...

 

Oh, come on. According to Jessa, scads of them do electrical and plumbing. How hard can embalming be compared to that?

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redlaces

redlaces

God, I sure hope so. Please do something that has anything to do with anything but fucking midwifery! As completely fascinating has it been to almost read the entire textbook and requirements... God.. please do something else.. 

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cmr2014

cmr2014

Are the Dillards leaving again?

 

https://instagram.com/p/8XAERIHS20/

 

I hope so. Derick did say that this last trip was going to be for "about a month," so it's time for them to go back. I truly hope that they are good and gone now, and that there are no more trips back to the US for the next year or two -- which would mean no more "Specials" unless TLC wanted to go and film in Central America.

 

I know that it's foolish to keep hoping for them after what has happened in the last year, but I still do have a glimmer of hope. They both seemed so much happier and more relaxed in Central America, and living away from home will help them both to mature and bond as a family. Those things are, of course, at the top of the list of things that JB does NOT want to happen, so I'm sure that they will be getting called back to Arkansas every few months until even the most ardent humpers are disgusted and the donation spigot runs completely dry.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

(edited)

How many going away parties do these people get?

 

EDIT: Also from that Instragram feed, I learned that Derrick's brother is an adult Boy Scout, which I find creepy as fuck.

Edited by CofCinci
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Sew Sumi

Sew Sumi

(edited)

Venessa wasn't remotely in shape the last time we saw her, plus when Jill was in labour, she visited a chiropractor in the same building Venessa's Zumba "practise" was in. Shady.

Vanessa. She probably learned it the same way she learned Zumba and midwifery. 

 

I wonder who Jill studied with after Vanessa's demise, since Vanessa was her only officially known preceptor when we looked at the records over the years. We know she hooked up with Shack Lady, but that woman was never listed as a preceptor, and we kept track until Jill's and Jana's student licenses expired in the summer of 2014. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am pretty sure that they were up for renewal last year, not this. If this is all true, that means that Jill finished her "clinicals" before she was married, probably even before she was engaged. 

 

eta: Derick's brother gives really creepy speeches at Rotary Clubs and the like all around NWA. In uniform, of course. I guess it's commendable both he and Derick made Eagle Scout and that Derick hashtagged that Izzy was a future Cowboy. The Duggar influence can't be that strong when it's time for Iz to join Cub Scouts. 

 

Seriously, that's the only hope I have for anyone to get away. I knew Derick would go the way of the Duggars, so none of this is a surprise to me. However, when he says his kid is a future Cowboy, I have a glimmer of hope that Izzy gets the education he needs to be accepted, either as a freshman or (a route I think will be equally competitive by then due to financial concerns) community college. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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SomePity1066

SomePity1066

What in the fuck did I just see ?!?! My eyes...MY EYES !!!!!! 

 

Because their politicians may lie to them and use them, and shady preachers growing rich off of poor people is such a cliché nobody even pays attention to it any more. But dammit, they can shout down the unbelievers on Instagram and vote for people who may be moving their jobs overseas, but they can be counted on to at least _try_ to deny the homosexuals wedding cakes.

God must be so thrilled.

                       Julia, 

                                   I'm not.

                                                  --God

 

Dr. Jill Duggar at your cervix.

I'll take Janarella in the center square for the win !!!  Seriously.  I now have a new definition of "white wine spritzer"...  ;)

 

The school's 22 midwifery modules take up to an average of 20 hours to complete according to the website.  Presuming every module takes that long, it would be 440 hours of study total, which apparently accounts for the student to read it through once and also to review it to pass an exam.  Presuming the student did this full-time 8 hours a day, we're talking a grand total of 15 weeks for the whole shebang.  There are also 20 modules of 'skills' and Bible study and such, which apparently take about two hours apiece, adding another week to the coursework or a total of 4 months or so in class to become a genuwine lay midwife (I refuse to call them professionals).  In contrast, a nurse midwife, in addition to a 4 year Bachelor's degree in nursing and usually a couple of years' work as a nurse, spends at least a year In full time class work before doing clinical work.  And, of course, we're talking 8 hours a day of classes followed by several hours every evening to study.

Doodlebug - Thank you so very much for this !!! Exactly the kind of info I need, as a non-medical, Certified Band-Aid Applier Only, to cement my opinion of just how non/un-quaified J-Muffin is to do Jack Diddly Squat. 

 

I did a very intense internship (Unpaid ! That I had to pay my accredited university to accept !) for just under 900 hours, spread over two semesters, in order to complete my degree. And this was in a field where I was never at risk for causing death or injury ! I had a great time in college, a wonderful career, put the nose the grindstone, blah blah blah, to become successful, but knowing that I put more work into small insurance, finance, and pension investments than people who are in charge of making sure that someone's bajngo doesn't explode while in labor makes me feel like I chose the wrong path ! 

 

These people are delusional

Yep, RazzleberryPie. Yes they are. 

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GeeGolly

GeeGolly

Yup, I think it explains how Jill was able to get the numbers needed to take the exam, minimal though they are.  She says she started keeping track as a teen.  Of course, a nurse midwife wouldn't be able to use her high school volunteer work, even if it was at births, to get her degree.  Just one more way that CPM's are less well trained than CNM's.

 

When I was in med school, we learned about the 'recency effect' which means that, when we're learning something, the closer the test is to the learning, the better we recall the info.  How likely is it that things Jill learned as a teen prior to her 'formal education' as a CPM were really that useful to her? Why would that count towards her requirements? Also, as anyone knows, practice makes perfect.  Now that we know Jill attended her 40 required deliveries over a period of many years, it makes it even less likely that she has even minimal skills.  I didn't feel ready to do deliveries all on my own after doing 162 vaginal births in a yeasr; Jill apparently assisted/performed fewer than one delivery a month.  Delivering a baby is a manual skill and it needs to be done time and time again so it becomes habitual and muscle memory takes over.  I doubt anyone could learn to tie their shoes or ride a bike if they only attempted once a month.  How could Jill ever develop the skills needed to deliver babies?  IMO, she couldn't.

This is true in many fields. For a Master's degree for social work, internship hours start a new. Even as an advanced standing student only 50 prior hours count toward toward a Master's level internship requirement. One college in my area gives up to 8 credits for previous experience, but the credit goes toward classwork credit, not field work credit, and it includes compiling a very thorough portfolio. Never mind that the world is constantly advancing no matter what field one is in.

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Defrauder

Defrauder

When she started babysitting as a teenager is she kidding me?  She started babysitting when when she was barely 5.  And why is Derick holding up a certificate is he a midwife too now?  These people tell stories.  Started babysitting as a teenager lol. She was practically running the compound by then.

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cissyboo1

cissyboo1

Hey, my son is an adult Boy Scout!  He made Eagle, turned 18, and graduated HS.  He has a plan for his life, to be an HVAC technician, but needs a boot in the bum to follow through.  Currently, he is at his grandmother's house, helping her after surgery, and attending meetings with the troop that he started his journey to Eagle with 8 years ago. 

 

But my son is not creepy looking like the Dillard boys-unless you force his autistic self to smile, then he looks like he belongs on the post office wall with the other most wanted.

  • Love 8
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Julia

Julia

Mike Rowe, from Dirty Jobs and Someone's Gotta Do It, is an adult Eagle scout, and I think he's adorable and not at all creepy. So, it can totally happen. Whether it did in the case of Derrick's brother, I couldn't say. Although, doesn't scouting allow lgtb kids now? That seems a bit pluralistic for someone in Jill's world.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

I assume this trip "overseas," described as for "about a month," will end as Jill and Derick rush back to Arkansas to be there for Jessa's delivery. How nice to have TLC picking up the tab for all that travel. First class, I assume.

It never occurs to these dumbasses to ask for business or first class.
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mimionthebeach

mimionthebeach

Judging from Jill's post-wedding IG posts of laundry-folding and banana-buying, which felt very boredom-induced to me, I think that she literally has no idea how to constructively fill her day without a house full of her mother's children to raise. IMO, Jill wanted Derick to stay at home so she could have a purpose and wouldn't be alone all day. 

 

At most, she should have used that time to finish her college and midwifery studies, join a book club, pick up a hobby, make some friends, get a part-time job, etc.

 

At least, she should have spent the day at TTH like she did pre-marriage to help out her sisters; she still could've gotten home in time to cook dinner for Derick. 

 

IMO, Derick didn't understand the severity of Jill's arrested emotional development when he married her. Unfortunately, rather than rise to the challenge by putting his foot down and encouraging her to find interests outside the home, he quit his job to feed into her unhealthy needs. 

 

ETA: With all this talk of Jill being discontent with Derick working, I can't help but think about how Jill told Jinger that the Lord would be working to teach her contentment if she were to live in a rural area. Whatever happened to learning some contentment, Jill?

 

I think one only has to work on their contentment if they are not happy with a lifestyle prescribed by their parents and GotHard. Jinger wanted to live in a city -- the horror -- which was clearly not okay with her parents, so SHE needed to work on her contentment. Jill wanted her husband to stay around her all day -- the way her parents do -- so clearly HE had to change, and then SHE would be content. Everything as it should be. SNAFU.

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kokapetl

kokapetl

(edited)

I watched half the video, with the sound off. WTF and I was defrauded by her collar bones and the (sometimes misspelt) song lyrics.

Below is the YouTube video that made her famous. Epic defrauding camel toe.

Edited by Kokapetl
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Liz Tudor

Liz Tudor

I think that's prancer was the midwife that trained Jill.

oh, no, no,no...unless you are kidding. It all started in a convo about Venessa the "midwife" Jill was assisting/shadowing, until she lost her "credentials." Then she became a Zumba instructor, and someone wondered what fundie Zumba would look like and someone posted the Prancercize video. Yes, I have too much time on my hands today, but we're on our 3rd sraight day of rain and I've got cabin fever, glued to the iPad & bad TV....
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