Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[lilwhitelion]

Re: Fenna's coat.  Malinois are double-coated.  Fenna's undercoat will actually help her stay cooler in hot months.  Sort of acts like a barrier to the skin so the heat is kept off her.  My daughter has a husky, so we became very familiar with double-coated dogs.  I once met a couple at the dog park who had a husky they traveled the states with.  They shaved her when they were in Texas.  I didn't have the heart to tell them they really hurt their dog's ability to regulate her temperature.  Double-coated breeds 'blow out' twice a year and should never be shaved.

[GeeGolly]

10 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just don;t think this hysteria is warranted. Fenna seems well cared for and fine. I've eaten old ice cream in the freezer, and I've been fine. Over 2 years old. It's really not that big of a deal.

I have a dog and cat and would hate to think about the shaming I'd receive if I had a lot of followers because my cat definitely drinks milk and my dog also ate lots of food scraps and left overs.

I also hate to think that this will trigger some sort of vigilante justice where ppl online try to get Fenna rehomed. I think that will be terrible.

As for breast milk, the phobia is real. My school has a breast pumping room. Or had. A supervisor decided it was "disgusting" and told women to go to the bathroom to pump.

I think going from calling feeding a dog two year old breastmilk stupid to calling the SPCA is a giant leap.

So sorry that folks in your area are so hung up on breastfeeding. While I know many out there are squeamish of public breastfeeding, far more seem to be very supportive. At least in my area. And still, accusing posters here of having a hang up about breastmilk is unfair, IMO.

But Jill (thankfully) didn't supply the milk directly from her breast. I think we would all agree, that would be totally out there.

Edited June 14, 2021 by GeeGolly

[rue721]

I think it's weird to give a dog your own breast milk.... I mean, I know dogs are the new babies, but come on! 🤣

That said, when I was volunteering at the SPCA years ago, a woman did call in saying she had tons of breast milk that she wanted to donate to the kittens and puppies. The supervisor said no, that babies should drink their own species' breast milk. So Jill isn't the first person to wonder about this!

I don't think it's unsafe for Fenna to drink Jill's old frozen breast milk... just weird and awkward as hell 🤣 It seems like a very intimate thing to do with your dog!

[Lady Whistleup]

12 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I think going from calling feeding a dog two year old breastmilk stupid to calling the SPCA is a giant leap.

So sorry that folks in your area are so hung up on breastfeeding. While I know many out there are squeamish of public breastfeeding, far more seem to be very supportive. At least in my area. And still, accusing posters here of having a hang up about breastmilk is unfair, IMO.

But Jill (thankfully) didn't supply the milk directly from her breast. I think we would all agree, that would be totally out there.

Well I think people are in general very squeamish about breast milk. Like if she had just said "Fenna got some milk" it wouldn't have been a huge firestorm. But breast milk is somehow thought of as dirty and unclean.

Breastmilk discrimination is actually a thing at many workplaces and women get accused of "public indecency" for pumping milk.

I also don't think Fenna looks like a  Belgian mal. She doesn't have the black saddle coat of a Mal. She looks more like a Heinz 57 "brown dog". 

[BitterApple]

50 minutes ago, lilwhitelion said:

Re: Fenna's coat.  Malinois are double-coated.  Fenna's undercoat will actually help her stay cooler in hot months.  Sort of acts like a barrier to the skin so the heat is kept off her.  My daughter has a husky, so we became very familiar with double-coated dogs.  I once met a couple at the dog park who had a husky they traveled the states with.  They shaved her when they were in Texas.  I didn't have the heart to tell them they really hurt their dog's ability to regulate her temperature.  Double-coated breeds 'blow out' twice a year and should never be shaved.

We have a double coated dog as well, a Central Asian Shepherd. During his blowout phase, it looks like a toy store's worth of stuffed animals exploded all over our yard. 

With regards to Jill, I don't think giving Fenna breast milk ranks high on the list of horrible ways people treat pets, but it is a little....odd. Most people would've tossed it. Social media is a small blip of peoples' overall lives, but it seems like the Dillards are doing more things right than they are wrong. 

 

[Spazamanaz]

Why would she have 2 year old breast milk in her freezer to begin with? Did she forget about? Does she not clean out her freezer? And doesn't frozen breast milk expire after six months? I always thought that you can store it in the freezer for up to six months. 

[Dehumidifier]

57 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

 

I also don't think Fenna looks like a  Belgian mal. She doesn't have the black saddle coat of a Mal. She looks more like a Heinz 57 "brown dog". 

Me too. 

[Gigi43]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I just don;t think this hysteria is warranted. Fenna seems well cared for and fine. I've eaten old ice cream in the freezer, and I've been fine. Over 2 years old. It's really not that big of a deal.

I have a dog and cat and would hate to think about the shaming I'd receive if I had a lot of followers because my cat definitely drinks milk and my dog also ate lots of food scraps and left overs.

I also hate to think that this will trigger some sort of vigilante justice where ppl online try to get Fenna rehomed. I think that will be terrible.

As for breast milk, the phobia is real. My school has a breast pumping room. Or had. A supervisor decided it was "disgusting" and told women to go to the bathroom to pump.

 

Are people trying to get the dog removed on other sites? If so missed that, I've just seen comments.  No one here has, at all. Criticism isn't hysteria. If people are getting to trying to get  the dog removed that's too far. When you post your life online you open yourself up to people disagreeing with your choices especially when it involves expired products. I have no problem with breast milk. If Jill gave her dog or child anything that was a year past expiration I would have an issue with it. People have different  views and i wasn't even going to comment further but you're assuming motivates, which isn't cool and definitely isn't mine. 

Edited June 14, 2021 by Gigi43

[absnow54]

I saw this thread was "Hot" and thought Jill had announced she was pregnant. Never in a million years did I think the topic of discussion would be feeding pets breastmilk that had been sitting in the back of a freezer for 2 years!

[Lady Whistleup]

I'm not assuming motivation, just an observation that people often have an irrational, visceral disgust towards breast milk and I don't get that at all.  We celebrate motherhood and are then grossed out by a part of motherhood. 

And not here but I definitely saw a lot of "ew breast milk is gross" posts on reddit which IMO is more body-shaming of mothers.

[Suzn]

52 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

We have a double coated dog as well, a Central Asian Shepherd. During his blowout phase, it looks like a toy store's worth of stuffed animals exploded all over our yard. 

With regards to Jill, I don't think giving Fenna breast milk ranks high on the list of horrible ways people treat pets, but it is a little....odd. Most people would've tossed it. Social media is a small blip of peoples' overall lives, but it seems like the Dillards are doing more things right than they are wrong. 

 

I can't resist weighing in on breast-milk-gate.  Expired doesn't mean that it's toxic, only that the quality diminishes and it may lose nutrition, but there would be no reason to give it to a dog.  The ickyness factor is that it is an intimate product from her body and it's peculiar that it would occur to her to feed it to a dog.  Jill is tone deaf about how how things are perceived, which seems common among the Duggars.

It appears that Jill needs to clean out her refrigerator a little more often.  Imagine what Jessa has in hers...

Fenna is fine and there is nothing to indicate that she is not being cared for properly.

[Gigi43]

5 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm not assuming motivation, just an observation that people often have an irrational, visceral disgust towards breast milk and I don't get that at all.  We celebrate motherhood and are then grossed out by a part of motherhood. 

And not here but I definitely saw a lot of "ew breast milk is gross" posts on reddit which IMO is more body-shaming of mothers.

 

Is Reddit where hysteric talk of taking the dog away is happening? Because that came out of absolutely no one here. 

[Zella]

3 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I'm not saying anyone is mother-shaming. I'm saying that the immediate response (including in the comments section of Jill's post) are IMO reflective of society's disgust towards the female body.

I mean if you think about it, there's nothing "natural" about us drinking cow or goat milk. We drink it, but it's not special or more nutritious than breast milk.

I actually think Jill giving Fenna breast milk means she's done having kids. It's a bit of a symbolic parting with actually having more kids.

Or an instinctive disgust to giving someone or something a product that is well past its use-by date? Like, the same instinctive disgust that tries to protect us from food poisoning? 

[Lady Whistleup]

4 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

 

Is Reddit where hysteric talk of taking the dog away is happening? Because that came out of absolutely no one here. 

No one is talking about taking the dog away. I just think that the hysteria over breast milk is overcooked, and I hate to think that some social media psychos will actually call animal control to take the dog away. Because this actually happens in parent groups. 

Anyway I realize people aren't going to agree with me about this. I guess I'm gross too for eating old ice cream and frozen veggies and what not. To me as long as the food doesn't taste funky I'll take it.

ETA: I also think that we as society are too wasteful of food in general but that's another kettle of fish. We throw away perfectly good food all the time.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Lady Whistleup

[Dehumidifier]

I'd love to know where all these mother shamers are. In my experience mothers shame non-mothers.

Edited June 14, 2021 by Dehumidifier

[Rootbeer]

2 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Well I think people are in general very squeamish about breast milk. Like if she had just said "Fenna got some milk" it wouldn't have been a huge firestorm. But breast milk is somehow thought of as dirty and unclean.

Breastmilk discrimination is actually a thing at many workplaces and women get accused of "public indecency" for pumping milk.

I also don't think Fenna looks like a  Belgian mal. She doesn't have the black saddle coat of a Mal. She looks more like a Heinz 57 "brown dog". 

If Jill had said she'd frozen some cow's milk from the dairy for 2 years and later tried to feed it to her kid or her dog; I'd also be concerned.  I didn't see people here worried about the source of the milk, just that she'd kept it for 2 years.  I think most of us don't keep stuff in our freezers that long.  

I wonder if the reason Jill didn't just toss the breast milk away was because she still has food issues from her childhood and throwing anyway any food that might still be edible is hard for her to do.  A kid who hides in the bathroom to eat so her siblings don't take her food away is probably going to have ongoing problems with food as an adult.

If your employer closed a dedicated lactation room to force breastfeeding women to use the bathroom to pump, you've got a pretty strong complaint, I'd think and I'd be heading to HR to tell them about it if it were me.

[lookeyloo]

interesting article

https://nationalpost.com/news/deliciously-creamy-the-world-of-breast-milk-cheese/

 regarding Jill and Fenna, many products have expiration dates just to move them along, not that they will make anyone sick.  Some people throw things out at the date the package says. Other people (like us) use it til its gone.  We have yet to get sick.  She probably found that stray amount of breast milk in the back of the freezer.  Except that my freezer now has a drawer, that could have been me with a number of things.

[Tdoc72]

5 hours ago, Suzn said:

 

It appears that Jill needs to clean out her refrigerator a little more often.  Imagine what Jessa has in hers...

 

From her latest Instagram post, Ivy’s in there!

[JoanArc]

 I wish Jill would find a fragment of one of her placentas is in the freezer so we can move this conversation along.  Shampoo, or salad topping? 

 

Edited June 14, 2021 by JoanArc

[Suzn]

6 minutes ago, Tdoc72 said:

From her latest Instagram post, Ivy’s in there!

I had no idea I was so on point!!!  🤣

[awaken]

9 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Dogs will be fine. They have a very strong GI system -- more so than humans. But I think the disgust over the breast milk is because of one of the weirdest societal disgusts about a woman producing milk. To this day I don't get why breast milk produces such visceral disgust in people.

If Jill gave Fenna two year old beef jerky it wouldn't be considered a big deal. But society loves to milk shame people. (I think I lost track but almond milk might be the only acceptable milk now?)

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Can’t like this enough!  Well stated. I get so many patients completely weirded out by human milk but totally fine with chugging that of cows, goats, etc. 
 

While I think (and hope) this debate has run its course, I have to jump in with one more thing since as I said, this is my area of study. The CDC guidelines are known to be conservative, and rightfully so, since they need to apply to a broad range of circumstances. This is assuming the milk will be used to meet all or part of a baby’s nutritional needs. As @Suznsaid, it doesn’t turn toxic at 6 to 12 months, it just would not supply some essential nutrients for an infant if it made up a major portion of their diet.  A dog having an ounce or two as a one-off really is not the same situation at all.

I still wouldn’t post it on Instagram though! That’s the part I find weird, but par for the course for Jill!

[ginger90]

[BitterApple]

Why are his two front teeth brown? 

[Almost 3000]

Puppucinos that are milk and sugar sound worse. Just sayin'.

[emmawoodhouse]

7 minutes ago, ginger90 said:

Sam in the background! 😂

6 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Why are his two front teeth brown? 

IIRC, he took a tumble when he was 2 or 3. His mouth has been jacked up for years. I hope his permanent teeth grow in straighter and whiter.

[andromeda331]

9 hours ago, Rootbeer said:

If Jill had said she'd frozen some cow's milk from the dairy for 2 years and later tried to feed it to her kid or her dog; I'd also be concerned.  I didn't see people here worried about the source of the milk, just that she'd kept it for 2 years.  I think most of us don't keep stuff in our freezers that long.  

I wonder if the reason Jill didn't just toss the breast milk away was because she still has food issues from her childhood and throwing anyway any food that might still be edible is hard for her to do.  A kid who hides in the bathroom to eat so her siblings don't take her food away is probably going to have ongoing problems with food as an adult.

If your employer closed a dedicated lactation room to force breastfeeding women to use the bathroom to pump, you've got a pretty strong complaint, I'd think and I'd be heading to HR to tell them about it if it were me.

Me too. I've tossed stuff that's been in my freezer for six months that had already gone bad. I can't imagine having anything for two years. 

[Nysha]

11 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Anyway I realize people aren't going to agree with me about this. I guess I'm gross too for eating old ice cream and frozen veggies and what not. To me as long as the food doesn't taste funky I'll take it.

Taking my answer to the prayer closet.

[queenanne]

On 6/13/2021 at 1:35 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

Ok whether you like Jill or not, I think she's exceeded expectations in her care for Fenna. Fenna isn't just stuck in some doghouse in the backyard. Fenna is taken on walks, given obedience lessons, and is obviously a beloved member of the family. 

Granted Fenna seems like an easy dog to take care of -- she seems very gentle and good with kids. But still. When I think of poor Brielle, I clap my hands for Jill's care of Fenna.

Betting that the source of Fenna's acquisition said "dogs like this require lots of exercise and shouldn't just be cooped up in a small area", because I think Jilly Muffin prizes rule-following so highly she would react to a statement like this very earnestly; and has done so.

[ginger90]

[BigBingerBro]

[Lady Whistleup]

32 minutes ago, BigBingerBro said:

Omg that's adorable. It's great that Izzy can do that -- read to a dog. It's depressing to think that Spurge's reading is probably so rudimentary and Spurge and Izzy are the same age.

And get well soon Fenna!

[Gemma Violet]

16 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Omg that's adorable. It's great that Izzy can do that -- read to a dog. It's depressing to think that Spurge's reading is probably so rudimentary and Spurge and Izzy are the same age.

And get well soon Fenna!

We have a program at our local shelter where kids come in and read to the dogs.  It's so cute.  

Looks like Izzy has really taken a shine to Fenna.  

[Lady Whistleup]

5 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

We have a program at our local shelter where kids come in and read to the dogs.  It's so cute.  

Looks like Izzy has really taken a shine to Fenna.  

I mean I hate to say it but ... Fenna's probably the smartest in that house. (If anyone's ever had a dog, you know that they are frighteningly intelligent.)

[BitterApple]

That's really cute Izzy is reading to Fenna. I hope she recovers soon.

[Heathen]

Did Fenna have her spay surgery?

[Lady Whistleup]

Fenna: the most likable Duggar by far. 

[Trillium]

3 hours ago, Heathen said:

Did Fenna have her spay surgery?

Seems likely that’s the case as she’d be about the age to have that done. And if she’s destroying things in the create then I don’t blame them for not having things in there. Not all dogs like beds and blankets. Our previous dog only liked to lay on the wood floor.  He wouldn’t lay on a bed or blanket. Now our new puppy, he wants all the fluffy pillows and blankets. Thankfully he doesn’t destroy them or else we’d have an empty crate too. 

[emmawoodhouse]

4 hours ago, Heathen said:

Did Fenna have her spay surgery?

Probably. When they brought her home they said she still had to be spayed. Not sure why the shelter wouldn't do it beforehand. She was certainly old enough. 

Edited June 15, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Rootbeer]

4 hours ago, Heathen said:

Did Fenna have her spay surgery?

I hope so, more evidence that the Dillards are trying to be responsible, caring dog owners, if they had her spayed.

[Albanyguy]

Shouldn't they have made Fenna promise to have as many puppies as the Lord saw fit to send her?

[GeeGolly]

1 hour ago, Albanyguy said:

Shouldn't they have made Fenna promise to have as many puppies as the Lord saw fit to send her?

I'm still laughing!

[JoanArc]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Shouldn't they have made Fenna promise to have as many puppies as the Lord saw fit to send her?

THESE are the kinds of videos to post to instagram, Dillards. Sit Jill and Fenna next to each other.

[Lady Whistleup]

2 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

Shouldn't they have made Fenna promise to have as many puppies as the Lord saw fit to send her?

Well they are giving Fenna non-hormonal birth control so there's that ...

[Heathen]

5 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Probably. When they brought her home they said she still had to be spayed. Not sure why the shelter wouldn't do it beforehand. She was certainly old enough. 

If vets in Arkansas are anything like they are here, they may still be backed up because of the pandemic. I'm in cat rescue, and it's still a struggle to get a sneuter appointment. With my last foster kittens, I had to wait two months for their appointment; they were four months by the time they had their surgeries. 

(Some vets still won't spay or neuter dogs until six months or older, cats until four months or older. I don't get it. That's how you get bonus puppies and kittens.) 

Topic: Good for the Dillards for doing what's right for Fenna. It sounds like they may actually take professional advice where she is concerned, too. Jim Bob and Mullet must be wondering if Jill was switched at birth. 

[CalicoKitty]

52 minutes ago, Heathen said:

 

(Some vets still won't spay or neuter dogs until six months or older, cats until four months or older. I don't get it. That's how you get bonus puppies and kittens.) 

I adopted a kitten that had just been spayed.  She had to be spayed again at the age of 2 years.  I was told that she was too young the first time, and they missed part of an ovary.  That piece grew back, and she went into full heat.  My vet said he prefers to wait until 5-6 months to make sure they can get everything.

[Heathen]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

I adopted a kitten that had just been spayed.  She had to be spayed again at the age of 2 years.  I was told that she was too young the first time, and they missed part of an ovary.  That piece grew back, and she went into full heat.  My vet said he prefers to wait until 5-6 months to make sure they can get everything.

I've been fostering cats and kittens for seven years. There is no reason a vet can't do a full spay even at two pounds, and none of my kittens spayed at eight weeks old have had any issues. Cats can get pregnant at four months old -- waiting until five or six months to spay means a high chance of bonus kittens, not to mention the stress and discomfort of going through a heat cycle. It's immoral to do that when there is an alternative, IMO. 

Topic: I wonder if Jill realizes how much she missed out on during her chaotic sister-mom childhood. Does she realize she could have been an actual kid with a childhood like her sons are now? 

 

[Jynnan tonnix]

1 hour ago, CalicoKitty said:

I adopted a kitten that had just been spayed.  She had to be spayed again at the age of 2 years.  I was told that she was too young the first time, and they missed part of an ovary.  That piece grew back, and she went into full heat.  My vet said he prefers to wait until 5-6 months to make sure they can get everything.

We had a cat like that as well...she came from a litter that my mother-in-law's cat had when Mr. Jyn and I were first married. Had her spayed at about 12 weeks, thereabouts, but once she got to be about a year old, she would go into full-blown heat every few months, and attract every tomcat in the area (this was before a lot of people were really having strictly indoor cats). I remember the vet prescribed something called "Ova-ban", so I guess if there was a medication for the problem, it must not have been all that unusual. But it always seemed funny for her to be on what seemed, like, for all intents and purposes, kitty birth-control pills.

[rue721]

Fenna may also have needed to get heartworm or other anti-parasite treatment, and so they held off on the spay until that was over (the heartworm treatment takes many weeks, and my dog also had to have another anti-parasite treatment that lasted an additional ten. These treatments are serious business). Most rescue dogs in the South are heartworm positive and many also have other parasites because of the climate -- lots of mosquitos, etc. I went through all that with my dog, but I actually rushed to have her spayed before bringing her home because of regulations making it really difficult to license unspayed dogs where I live. It was a mistake, they botched the spay and she got a bad infection and took a long time to heal. It seems like the Dillards are doing things right... although maybe this is a total slap in the face of the Gothard/Duggar fertility cult! 😂

[emmawoodhouse]

Now if they can get Derelict fixed. 😀

[mynextmistake]

On 6/14/2021 at 8:54 AM, Lady Whistleup said:

No one is talking about taking the dog away. I just think that the hysteria over breast milk is overcooked, and I hate to think that some social media psychos will actually call animal control to take the dog away. Because this actually happens in parent groups. 

Anyway I realize people aren't going to agree with me about this. I guess I'm gross too for eating old ice cream and frozen veggies and what not. To me as long as the food doesn't taste funky I'll take it.

ETA: I also think that we as society are too wasteful of food in general but that's another kettle of fish. We throw away perfectly good food all the time.

My dog, who to be fair is possibly the stupidest dog in the history of time, once ate a psychedelic mushroom she found growing in our backyard. My husband found her with little bits of it clinging to her muzzle. The entire way to pet emergency, she stared at the backseat of the car and barked at things only she could see. Then, when we got there and I let her out of the car, she dove to the ground and covered her head with her front paws, as though she was being bombed from above. They pumped her stomach and she was fine, although it took her a loooooong time to sleep off her trip.

I like that the books in the picture are age-appropriate and seem to be about topics other than Jesus. I think some Bible stories are fine for kids (we have a 70s era Noah’s Ark that Mini Mistake adores), but I think it’s great that Jill’s letting Sam read things he probably enjoys rather than forcing him to recite scripture like Jessa does with her kids.