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Chris Knight

Jill & Derick Dullard: Counting On (Donations)

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I’m not ready to assign saviorhood to Derreck, but I’m glad Jill looks a bit happier. The boys certainly do, too.  Hopefully Israel isn’t being talked to like he is an annoyance any longer. I think that was one of the worst things I’ve seen any Duggar do to their kids.  It’s not like you could blame the sheer volume of kids like her parents could. 

I wonder if the upcoming book is really written by Jill. That would make more sense than having Derreck just whine about the past few years. Finding out why she is getting therapy, or at least suddenly growing as a person is much more interesting then anything else they could sell, and would move the most books both inside and out of their little world. 

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I liked in the one post she was listening to something she wanted to hear, while doing something nice for the boys. fixing their stuffed friends and seemingly happy to be doing that.

there has been a big shift in the tone of her posts it seems.

she seems less everything is so hard, to now more relaxed enjoying life type pics

should Derick have an internship this summer that involves him going an office, and if he eventually gets a real job, it seems Jill is in a much better place to handle that now.

 

 

 

 

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If Jill EVER writes a truly real and honest book about her life and her parents' rules and beliefs she and Derick may very well be able to pay off their home mortgage.

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47 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Did I miss a post of Jill jamming in her car?

It’s in her Instagram stories.
 

Screenshot:

9A281BF2-5204-47E0-9BFE-B56CAD37F62E.jpeg

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8 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

Jill has definitely come a long way since she's been away from the compound and JimSlob. I'm really impressed with her lately. Little steps still get you to where you're going. And I'm still stunned she's not pregnant again. I really think something happened with Sam and she can't have anymore. 

I think Derrick put the stop on the baby train. He’s not from not a quiverfull family and he probably realized that having kids is a lot of work and costs money. They may have one or two later on, but they may wait after he finishes law school.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Future Cat Lady
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1 hour ago, doodlebug said:

I don't know if she can't have any more kids, but I do think Sam's birth was a turning point for Jill in a lot of ways.  It seems that discussion over filming Sam's birth as well as Derick's demand that TLC pay the medical bills for Israel's delivery, and probably Sam's; was a big part of the rupture of their relationship with both Jim Bob and TLC.  If nothing else, Derick started questioning the money stream.  It could be that, after accepting JB's version, that they were unpaid volunteers, Derick found out otherwise when he asked TLC to help with their medical bills and it spiraled from there.

For Jill, I think it was a real shock to her system that she had attempted homebirth for a second time and failed again.  Being a midwife and doing homebirths was a big part of Jill's identity within her family and that foundation was shaken deeply.  Recall also that Sam had some sort of medical issues at delivery and was in the NICU for a number of days.  Jill's faith in herself as a mother and as a midwife, not to mention her belief in homebirths must've been shattered when her baby suffered at least in part due her choices.  Finally, women who suffer traumatic births are far more likely to experience postpartum depression and I wouldn't be surprised if Jill did, too.  It may have been part of the impetus to seek counseling, especially as she lost her family for the most part right at the same time and had mainly just Derick to help and support her.  

Now that Jill has sought and received counseling and seems to be in a far better place emotionally, I could see her deciding all on her own, that she is going to use birth control and space their kids or perhaps even be finished with 2, that quiverfull is baloney and not in her best interest or her family's.

I agree with much of this. I think it was a real shock to Jill that she needed a second c-section. However it was never confirmed that she attempted a second homebirth. 

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1 minute ago, Temperance said:

I agree with much of this. I think it was a real shock to Jill that she needed a second c-section. However it was never confirmed that she attempted a second homebirth. 

Derick did in a post that he removed quickly.  She labored at home for a number of hours that I can't remember (70?) before they went to the hospital.  I remember it as being super, super risky at the time.

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1 hour ago, Absolom said:

Derick did in a post that he removed quickly.  She labored at home for a number of hours that I can't remember (70?) before they went to the hospital.  I remember it as being super, super risky at the time.

No He said she labored for 40 hours before the c-section. He never said where she was. That could have been in the hospital. 

Edited by Temperance
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3 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

BIG steps considering this is what the sisters wrote in Growing Up Duggar: 

“Our family does not support the idea of Christians adopting this type of music or putting “Christian Words” to it and bringing it to the Church, because the underlying message of the music is still the same, and we believe that the combination of the two sends a mixed message. Our God is not the author of confusion but of order, and our lives and even our music should be a reflection of that. We have found that classical music and traditional hymns usually follow a pattern and maintain a very distinct and definite order, and over the years Mom and Dad have encouraged us to pursue those types of music.”

I wonder which TLC producer wrote that

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7 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder which TLC producer wrote that

David Waller ghostwrote their book. So, IBLP/Gothard, not TLC.

Edited by Sew Sumi
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1 hour ago, floridamom said:

If Jill EVER writes a truly real and honest book about her life and her parents' rules and beliefs she and Derick may very well be able to pay off their home mortgage.

 I thought, according to Derreck, there was no mortgage for this house and it’s already paid for. It’s part of the ultra top-secret financial stuff that is supposed to come out with the tell all book. 

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13 minutes ago, Temperance said:

No He said she labored for 40 hours before the c-section. He never said where she was. That could have been in the hospital. 

40 hours is nearly two entire days. Do hospitals usually have a woman laboring that long before intervening?

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18 minutes ago, Temperance said:

No He said she labored for 40 hours before the c-section. He never said where she was. That could have been in the hospital. 

Not if the doctor and hospital employees had any sense and followed standard medical practice.  The kid was malpositioned just like his brother and they wouldn't allow a trial of labor that long even for a well positioned fetus.  I was pretty sure something gave it up that she labored at home.  Sorry it's been too long.

5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

40 hours is nearly two entire days. Do hospitals usually have a woman laboring that long before intervening?

Not normally and especially not with a trial of labor for a VBAC.

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5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

40 hours is nearly two entire days. Do hospitals usually have a woman laboring that long before intervening?

It's hard to say. The Duggars and a lot of other people I know count inactive labor (when the contractions start , but before the pushing begins).  It seems very like that Jill spent early stages of labor at home. I also think that Jill would have been reluctant to give up her VBAC. A lot of it depends on the patient. Most hospitals won't do a c-section against patient's will. 

1 minute ago, Absolom said:

Not if the doctor and hospital employees had any sense and followed standard medical practice.  The kid was malpositioned just like his brother and they wouldn't allow a trial of labor that long even for a well positioned fetus.  I was pretty sure something gave it up that she labored at home.  Sorry it's been too long.

See above. Also I have no idea what position Sam was in. I don't think he was breech or transverse baby, there's no evidence of that. 

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3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

It's hard to say. The Duggars and a lot of other people I know count inactive labor (when the contractions start , but before the pushing begins).  It seems very like that Jill spent early stages of labor at home. I also think that Jill would have been reluctant to give up her VBAC. A lot of it depends on the patient. Most hospitals won't do a c-section against patient's will. 

Active labor is stage one and is when the contractions are steady, regular, and productive. Pushing is actually stage two and comes after active labor.  Stage three is the afterbirth.  That's all unless things have changed in the last 5 to 8 years.  Hospitals can't do a c-section without consent.  Sometimes it takes a lot to convince some patients.  I'm sure Jill would have held out hope longer than she should have and that could have been why Sam spent two weeks in the NICU.  If I were Derick after seeing those two births, I wouldn't be cooperating in her doing it a third time. 

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I thought they said Sam was transverse.

Edited by Sew Sumi · Reason: More specific
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22 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I thought, according to Derreck, there was no mortgage for this house and it’s already paid for. It’s part of the ultra top-secret financial stuff that is supposed to come out with the tell all book. 

not sure if the have a mortgage, but they have paid taxes on that lot from 2015

DILLARD DERICK & JILL
************ AVE
LOWELL, AR 72745

Parcel/PPAN:5229027

Tax Year:2015

Property Type: Personal

Owner Name: DILLARD DERICK & JILL

Property Addess :% CATHY BYRUM

 

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4 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

BIG steps considering this is what the sisters wrote in Growing Up Duggar: 

“Our family does not support the idea of Christians adopting this type of music or putting “Christian Words” to it and bringing it to the Church, because the underlying message of the music is still the same, and we believe that the combination of the two sends a mixed message. Our God is not the author of confusion but of order, and our lives and even our music should be a reflection of that. We have found that classical music and traditional hymns usually follow a pattern and maintain a very distinct and definite order, and over the years Mom and Dad have encouraged us to pursue those types of music.”

Of course, David Waller actually wrote it, since he was better placed to accurately parrot the words of their master, Gothard, so the ghostwriter could get them down exactly. 😁 But it's certainly what the girls were badgered and shamed and coerced into believing. 

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3 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Of course, David Waller actually wrote it, since he was better placed to accurately parrot the words of their master, Gothard, so the ghostwriter could get them down exactly. 😁 But it's certainly what the girls were badgered and shamed and coerced into believing. 

Beat you to the Waller as ghostwriter bit! 😁

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13 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I thought they said Sam was transverse.

 I did a little googling and couldn’t find that confirmed. Every article I looked at mentions a 40 hour labor which ended in a C-section but was otherwise vague. Remember, they didn’t really post a detailed account of this birth like they did with Israel’s. The only announcement, at first, was Derreck posting a picture of Sam with a bunch of wires and tubes attached to him, which got the (correct) speculation bus rolling that it was a rough birth.

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42 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

I wonder which TLC producer wrote that

David Waller wrote it. The book's initial pages mention "additional writing" by Charlie Richards and David Waller.

Charlie Richards is a very experienced ghostwriter, who's written for many big Christian names as well as for other people. That being the case, he did all the actual writing. The putting it into words that a big-name publisher would be willing to sell. 

When it comes to the actual material in the book, though, most of it is regurgitated straight from Gothard materials, often including the little "stories" about things that supposedly happened to the girls and the Duggar kids. Sometimes you can see actual stories about the family woven around Gothard "principles' and "concepts." Other times, though, even the stories are things that are either written in Gothard literature or are often repeated by other alums of Gothard programs. 

David W contributed all of that stuff. He was obviously brought in to make sure that the book is a pro-Gothard tract, completely designed to attract more people, especially young people, to Gothard's organizations.....not really a story of the Duggar girls at all. The girls clearly had very little to do with creating the book,  except probably telling the two guys about some things that have happened to them so David could decide which of the girls' stories were good Gothard material and manipulate them to sell exactly the right thing.

The girls and "their" book, like the show, were originally intended by their parents and the rest of the Gothard crew to be bait to bring more people into Gothard's organizations. (and along with those people, more money for all of them.) It didn't work very well. However, people at Gothard headquarters have been quoted as saying that  most of the new members they've attracted in the time 19 Kids was on did report being attracted because of the Duggars. 

 

 

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The boys look happy and cute, and I think I spy fresh vegetables behind Jill. Baby steps, but she's getting there.

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18 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

When it comes to the actual material in the book, though, most of it is regurgitated straight from Gothard materials, often including the little "stories" about things that supposedly happened to the girls and the Duggar kids. Sometimes you can see actual stories about the family woven around Gothard "principles' and "concepts." Other times, though, even the stories are things that are either written in Gothard literature or are often repeated by other alums of Gothard programs. 

Wow, so the anecdotes are just repackaged Gothars BS, too? Do you remember which anecdotes/precepts? I’m not familiar enough with either the book or Gothard to know, but that’s very interesting 

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1 hour ago, GeeGolly said:

40 hours is nearly two entire days. Do hospitals usually have a woman laboring that long before intervening?

Depends on the circumstances.  I seem to recall the Duggars seem to start timing 'labor' from the time the water breaks but that isn't how it is defined.

There is usual a period of time before active labor starts where a woman is having stronger contractions, they can even be less than 5 minutes apart.  Her water might've broken, she could have bloody show, increased mucus discharge.  This can last anywhere from 0-24 hours and still be considered normal.  During this time, the cervix thins out and maybe the baby's head drops further into the pelvis; but there is no change or only small changes in dilation of the cervix.  This is prodromal or latent labor and it technically doesn't count towards the total.  You will remember that Jill's 70 hours of labor with Israel started with her water breaking and I believe she was out and about getting a pedicure and dining in a restaurant while in 'labor'.

Active labor has been redefined over the past decade or so.  It is now defined as 6 cm of dilation with strong, hard, regular contractions.  We used to define active labor at 4 cm, research shows that is too soon.  Active labor in a woman who has never delivered vaginally is usually 12-16 hours.  We have also redefined the amount of time with no cervical change before we recommend a cesarean for failure to progress in active labor.  Once again, the woman must be dilated 6 cm or more and then, there has to be 6 hours of NO progress with documented adequate contractions.  Obviously, this depends on both mom and baby being in good shape the whole time and also that it is possible to get adequate contractions.  Sometimes, especially in older moms, you can use a ton of pitocin and still not get a good labor pattern.

In short, Jill could've been in labor for 40 hours based on Duggar labor logic.  I doubt she spent more than a fraction of that time in the hospital.  Most likely, she stayed home as long as possible to see what would happen and it was only once she realized things were going awry and she saw the writing on the wall that she went to labor and delivery.  I've run into more than a few couples who wanted 'natural' births and had even considered a home birth but then claimed they wanted the hospital; stay home as long as possible in hopes of an 'oops, we accidentally had the baby at home' moment.   I could see Jill hoping for that.

Edited by doodlebug
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5 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

BIG steps considering this is what the sisters wrote in Growing Up Duggar: 

“Our family does not support the idea of Christians adopting this type of music or putting “Christian Words” to it and bringing it to the Church, because the underlying message of the music is still the same, and we believe that the combination of the two sends a mixed message. Our God is not the author of confusion but of order, and our lives and even our music should be a reflection of that. We have found that classical music and traditional hymns usually follow a pattern and maintain a very distinct and definite order, and over the years Mom and Dad have encouraged us to pursue those types of music.”

Apparently they’re unaware that the vast majority of popular music follows boring established patterns (AABA, for example) and uses about 3 chords. Not terribly disorderly.

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Senior moment, thanks for reminding me who wrote their book.  

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1 hour ago, rue721 said:

Wow, so the anecdotes are just repackaged Gothars BS, too? Do you remember which anecdotes/precepts? I’m not familiar enough with either the book or Gothard to know, but that’s very interesting 

I used to have a list in my head but it's kind of dropped out of reach! Now that I've thought of it again, some details may surface. If they do, I'll report back!

30 minutes ago, LilJen said:

Apparently they’re unaware that the vast majority of popular music follows boring established patterns (AABA, for example) and uses about 3 chords. Not terribly disorderly.

Incredibly stodgy old fart Bill Gothard made all this up. And he probably knows and approves about five pieces of music -- all 19th-century hymn tunes -- tops. So.....Anything that's not those hymns -- disorderly!!!!

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I remember a story about feeling out of place at a birthday party. From Jill or Jessa's POV. There was a stupid lesson about finding your confidence in Jesus. 

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36 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I used to have a list in my head but it's kind of dropped out of reach! Now that I've thought of it again, some details may surface. If they do, I'll report back!

Incredibly stodgy old fart Bill Gothard made all this up. And he probably knows and approves about five pieces of music -- all 19th-century hymn tunes -- tops. So.....Anything that's not those hymns -- disorderly!!!!

 I think Bill also made a vow to God never to see a movie in his life, and kept it.  Because holiness. Jill certainly broke that one, too.

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47 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

I remember a story about feeling out of place at a birthday party. From Jill or Jessa's POV. There was a stupid lesson about finding your confidence in Jesus. 

Yeah, I remember that one, too, come to think of it.

It was a birthday party at which all the other girls had supposedly seen some new movie that was very questionable in morals and way beyond the pale.....And whichever Duggar or Duggars was/were there, learned that feeling left out was a small price to pay for shielding yourself from how horrible and tempting-to-the-devil it is as a teenager if you watch a movie in which a couple of teenagers hold hands and like it, or something....

Now, as we know, the Duggar girls would never ever ever have been at a birthday party where all the other girls had seen some romantic movie.

The Duggar girls seldom socialized with other people at all, and when they did, they saw only other extreme fundies or, more often, just other Gothardites. The story simply did not happen.

This is a story aimed directly at Gothard prospects -- families and, especially, parents who are very conservative but currently live in the real world and are scared to death their kids will get some kind of ideas.....and who would love to find a group of super-sheltered people like the Gothard crowd to hide their kids away in.....

It's totally in the mold of the propaganda Gothard and company have used to attract neurotically fearful parents into their group. But it has no relationship to anything the Duggar girls ever did in real life. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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I didn't but the party story at all. It was a giant eyeroller.

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4 hours ago, LilJen said:

Apparently they’re unaware that the vast majority of popular music follows boring established patterns (AABA, for example) and uses about 3 chords. Not terribly disorderly.

Ha, I just learned that while doing music lessons with my middle schooler!  I guess gothard and the Duggars never got that far!

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5 hours ago, rue721 said:

Wow, so the anecdotes are just repackaged Gothars BS, too? Do you remember which anecdotes/precepts? I’m not familiar enough with either the book or Gothard to know, but that’s very interesting 

Look up Growing up Duggar on Amazon, there are excerpts of some stories in the description 

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Here’s a run through summary of Chapter 1 that I found on FJ: 

 

Chapter one starts with Jill. When the kids were younger, Jim Bob and Michelle asked how many rooms they wanted. They said they all wanted to be together, and two rooms were made. Jana and Jill have double beds that they share with Jordyn and Josie. The other girls sleep on twin beds or youth beds. One night, when Johannah was five or six, Jill was taking out her retainer and Johannah asked what it was. Jill told her, and Johannah asked if she could wear it. Jill says "We Duggars love to share a lot, but thankfully dental appliances aren't among them." She told Johannah it wouldn't fit her mouth and they went to bed.

Jill starts to talk about how she used to not feel pretty. She was getting ready for church, and tried to measure up to all the other girls. She had the perfect outfit picked out until she saw Jessa. Jessa looked so pretty and cute! So Jill tried to change her outfit, and wound up making everyone late for church.

Next, Jessa talks. She says she used to not care about what she wore or how she looked, until she was 12 or 13. She went to a birthday party, tried to look cute. The birthday girl liked her friends outfit, Jessa felt bad. Then she felt out of place because she didn't know the movies the other girls had seen, or any of the TV they watched. Jim Bob and Michelle found out, and helped her reevaluate the friendship. (Code for made me stop being their friend?) She wasn't glorifying God enough.She gave her friend too much power by letting the way she looked dictate Jessa's thoughts and feelings about herself.

Jessa tells us about the 10 Unchangables taught to them by a "Bible teacher" Jessa thinks God was sad when He saw how Jessa didn't appreciate her features. If we are upset with the girl in the mirror, we are upset with God for how he created us. And that is bad.

Then the talk about an Italian friend who's mother gave her a check to get her nose deducted, which was the family tradition once you were an adult. She surprised her mom by saying no.

There are some things you can change. The oldest girls have a tendency to put on weigHt. Over the years Michelle has always tried to feed the kids healthy nutritious food.  She keeps fresh fruits and veggies on hand from their garden or from the farmers. They only eat grass fed beef and lean poultry, no pork.  They don't drink lots of soda nor do they eat processed foods like pop tarts.  All of the kids play sports (at their house. They have enough people for two teams.)

The reason Josh gained so much weight was because he stopped watching his intake of soda and sweet tea because he was soooo busy. He cut the drinks, drank water and lost allthe weight.

Michelle gained 40 pounds being pregnant all the time. She tried lots of programs, before finding weight watchers. She walks three miles a day on her elliptical too.

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An interesting recap of Chapter 2, also on FJ...

 

When Jinger was 5, a big storm came in and hit. Michelle and Mary huddled the kids in the bath tub, prayed and sang songs. The tornado hit the next neighborhood over. From then on, Jinger was scared. She woke her parents scared a tornado was going to hit and kill them all. Or her parents, leaving the kids to fend for themselves. They cuddled her, pulled out scripture, And pray with her.

When she grew out of her fear of storms, she was 13, and had a new bump in the road. She was worried about being ugly and never getting a boyfriend. She would tell her mom. Her dad told her if she kept talking, she would be okay. Michelle reminded her that Jesus quoted scripture when he was being tempted, and told her to make someone a prayer target when the devil started lying or making a boy consume her thoughts. Finally, Michelle had Jana talk to Jinger. Jana shared her heart, and Jinger realized she wasn't alone.

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They don't drink soda?! Um, is Jessa forgetting that restaurant-style soda fountain directly across from the dining room table? 

 

Edited by BitterApple
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So in the first two chapters of their book the lessons are if you're feeling insecure with yourself, the solutions are, God, God, God, Jana, God and Weight Watchers. 

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Didn't we speculate that the Dillards bought their home from a Christian builder who 'sells' the property on a pay as you go basis? Why would Cathy's name and address appear on their property record at all? It this home is paid for already, I believe Derick and Dan's grandparents' inheritance passed directly to them, half each since their father pre-deceased their grandparents. This would explain it being paid for in cash, if this is so.

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1 hour ago, floridamom said:

Didn't we speculate that the Dillards bought their home from a Christian builder who 'sells' the property on a pay as you go basis? Why would Cathy's name and address appear on their property record at all? It this home is paid for already, I believe Derick and Dan's grandparents' inheritance passed directly to them, half each since their father pre-deceased their grandparents. This would explain it being paid for in cash, if this is so.

Cathy's name appears on the lot taxes for years 2015, 2016 and 2017. Also in 2015 they paid their taxes late and paid a penalty.

my sister teaches the Dave Ramsey courses at her church - I asked her the how do young people get a home without a mortgage. she told me and now I can't remember her wording - they get a loan somehow in many cases, but it is called something else. Is anyone else here familiar with the Dave Ramsey program as far as mortgages?

I will ask her again next time I talk to her, but our conversations are infrequent.

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24 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

Cathy's name appears on the lot taxes for years 2015, 2016 and 2017. Also in 2015 they paid their taxes late and paid a penalty.

my sister teaches the Dave Ramsey courses at her church - I asked her the how do young people get a home without a mortgage. she told me and now I can't remember her wording - they get a loan somehow in many cases, but it is called something else. Is anyone else here familiar with the Dave Ramsey program as far as mortgages?

I will ask her again next time I talk to her, but our conversations are infrequent.

The Dave Ramsey program is fine with mortgages on your primary residence as long as you put 10% down, the payment is less than 25% of your take home pay and you don’t use your regular emergency fund for the down payment. 
If you don’t have a credit score, manual underwriting would be required.

Perhaps Cathy Co-signed for them and then took her name off the property after a few years. 

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8 hours ago, VioletWitch said:

She had the perfect outfit picked out until she saw Jessa. Jessa looked so pretty and cute! So Jill tried to change her outfit, and wound up making everyone late for church.

Now Jill actually has cut her hair and dresses more "revealing" , while Jessa still has that hideous hair and dresses like a frump. I'd like to say the tables have turned..

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8 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The Dave Ramsey program is fine with mortgages on your primary residence as long as you put 10% down, the payment is less than 25% of your take home pay and you don’t use your regular emergency fund for the down payment. 
If you don’t have a credit score, manual underwriting would be required.

Perhaps Cathy Co-signed for them and then took her name off the property after a few years. 

They were in Danger America in 2015. It appears that Cathy owns/ed the lot before the house went up on it.

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Over the years Michelle has always tried to feed the kids healthy nutritious food.  She keeps fresh fruits and veggies on hand from their garden or from the farmers. They only eat grass fed beef and lean poultry, no pork.  They don't drink lots of soda nor do they eat processed foods like pop tarts. 

 They didn’t have a garden for quite some time. I supposed to clean all their food comes from farmers. Bullshit on the grass fed beef and poultry. I’m surprised lightning didn’t come down and strike the book about processed foods. Just look at Jessa’s recent ‘pizza’ recipie.

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Yeah, and what about the thousands of tater tots and gallons of condensed soup they’ve scarfed down over the years?

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Aethera

If your post is not PRIMARILY about the Duggars, it will be removed. Please stick to the topic or take it to Small Talk, thank you.

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