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Chris Knight

Jill & Derick Dullard: Counting On (Donations)

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6 hours ago, Tasya said:

He's 5, why does he have to have his own room?

 Honestly, because his mother didn’t. Better to break up some patterns now. I do  understand it they could do perfectly well together in a room but really, shake things up Jill.  In some ways, she needs a second childhood and to grow up right along with her boys. I honestly think she might take to scheduling once she gets forced into it for a few months. I would suggest to her therapist that she find a way for Jill to be able to handle time to herself, as that would fix many many problems. Maybe it’s just my personality, but I can’t imagine not being able to tolerate being alone. What’s to be scared of?  Whatever Jim Bob and Michelle did to her was terrible.

 

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e: Austin's level of fundie - Boob and MEchelle revealed* that Austin and a friend had rebelled against their parents and their lifestyle at some point in their teens or early adulthood. Boob said the boys were drinking and smoking. He didn't specify how long this went on, but obviously Austin returned to the fold. So he has chosen to be fundie again, but he also knows what life on the outside is like, so I tend to believe that he's not as judgmental about non-fundies.

 It’s funny how they consider smoking and drinking active rebellion, but no one ever seems to  try thinking for themselves in active rebellion. A little weird and cinnamon whiskey is nothing compared to reading a philosophy book and getting something out of it, or realizing that the people that raised you were kind of crazy. 

Edited by JoanArc
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I don't believe that there is a requirement for the boys to have their own rooms, growing up as the youngest of 6, my two oldest brothers shared until they moved out, my sisters shared until they moved out, my bother and I shared until I was 13, we always had a guest room, not sharing was not an option, dependent on the size of the rooms we had bunk beds or two singles.  Sharing a room is a good thing in my opinion, you learn to share, you can have late night chats, you learn to tolerate others and if they do decide to have another blessing where are they going to put it? 

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2 hours ago, OpieTaylor said:

Re: Austin's level of fundie - Boob and MEchelle revealed* that Austin and a friend had rebelled against their parents and their lifestyle at some point in their teens or early adulthood. Boob said the boys were drinking and smoking. He didn't specify how long this went on, but obviously Austin returned to the fold. 

IIRC that friend is now married to Austin’s sister.

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I think both Austin and Joy doubled down on the fundie beliefs after their respective rebellions. Bobby Ballinger (Austin's now BIL) certainly did. 

Edited by Sew Sumi
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5 hours ago, SMama said:

It depends on Sam’s sleeping habits. Plus they already have the extra room. I know a couple with identical twins and the parents were very invested in everything being identical for them.

Then one girl began waking up in the middle of the night to play, sing, whatever she could do, waking up her sister.

It was very difficult for the parents but they separated them. It made such a big difference for the other twin. 
 

I can’t see Jill implementing a sleep schedule. Derick or Jill commented as newlyweds that a consistent bedtime was difficult for Jill. Does anyone recall that TH?

The TTH is fundie Las Vegas with infants up past midnight. It works for them because no one works and they are shameless about being hours late for everything.

I hope Derick mans up and makes sure his children (ay least Izzy now) have structure and consistency in their lives.

My twins sleep in the same room. Fortunately, they're both good sleepers, and at this stage, don't wake each other up in that regard. But we've got a regular routine and bedtimes which helps. As long as they've got the space Izzy should have his own room. That way, Sam won't be waking him up during the night when school starts. Jill needs to start him on a routine pronto, before the fall. Kids who don't have any routine have a hard time in school. I've got one in my class. She's gotten used to it, finally, but it's still hard, and the parents don't enforce any routine at home. Izzy needs the structure. Sam too. 

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14 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

I wouldn't swear to this but I'm pretty sure Bin put a sock in it the minute Jessa (who also had started publishing her "beliefs" in social media and was every bit as arrogant as Bin about it -- both presented themselves very authoritatively) noticed that they were getting significant serious backlash from commenters. 

As I remember it (which could be wrong, but I think I have at least the basic timeline right) their self-censorship of their stringent views -- which they were presenting very authoritatively at first and were in the nature of general sermons about biblical interpretation and were directed widely at sinners and the culture, not directed to any particular people or at TLC at all, like Derick's (and Jer's) rants about Jazz -- began fast.

I'm pretty sure they were actually the first in the family to start using social media as a preaching medium.....(Der was still pursuing his missionary ambitions at the time, I think, and he didn't come out with the Jazz stuff that ran afoul of the network until much later, when his missionary dreams had died.)  But Bin (and Jessa) started presenting themselves as all-purpose sermonizers chastising the sins of the worldly quite early on, very soon after their marriage....I think that was part of Bin's preacher/pastor dream. 

But of course there was very quick anger and pushback from lots of people. And when it began, Bin, in particular, started trying to argue -- very strenuously and, again, in an authoritative tone -- against people's criticisms online. But of course that just made commenters more determined to shout him down.

And Bin was an absolutely terrible debater. His writing was massively unclear and it quickly became obvious when he tried to give reasons for his views that he apparently had no idea what he was talking about once he got past the initial cliches. After a few lengthy fights broke out with commenters, Bin and Jessa both went silent on religious issues -- and Bin pretty much went silent altogether -- and they pretty much remained that way forever after. 

The whole kerfuffle didn't last long at all because the blowups started as soon as they published their first stuff, which was quite inflammatory and was in the nature of fire and brimstone talk aimed at everybody their family religions disagreed with. Jessa, whose other obsession by that time was collecting social-media likes to build her tv brand, was horrified, I'm sure. So it's hard to imagine that she wasn't the one who stopped the preaching, 

 

I remember that too. That's why I'm unconvinced they've changed on any of their beliefs or anything. They didn't stop making those posts because they saw the light or changed. They stopped because they got a lot of push back. Then suddenly their SM became all about cute kid pictures and videos. 

8 hours ago, Zella said:

In my experience, people with this experience tend to be either more understanding or they tend to be even more hardline because of it. (Which I find true of people who have experienced hardship too--it either gives them an unusual sense of empathy or it just hardens them against people they deem weaker than themselves. 😞

For the ones who rebel and then return, it's like they have something to atone for, and I think they can go overboard in doing so or trying to prove that they aren't backsliding currently.

Of course, without knowing Austin better, it is hard to know which situation better fits him. But I wouldn't rule out his little rebellious period actually making him even more fundie.  

I'm not sure which either. But I'm unconvinced that Austin returned to Jesus completely on his own. Given how much the parents like to brainwash the kids into that crap. When one starts to show signs of breaking of that I have no doubt they clamp down on that until he either gives up or gives in. Its the same with Joy crediting Joe with bringing her back into the fold when she had struggles in her teens. Did either one actually have the option of not returning to the fold? How exactly were either one 'convinced'.

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On 2/24/2020 at 1:55 AM, Temperance said:

It's surprising to me if JD is that guy. He seemed just as fundie as the rest of his family when he was younger. Like a lot of fundie boys (he was a teen), he was hung up on gender roles. Hopefully he's growing/evolving away from that. I agree it's a good sign they picked a normal church.  

I see him as so completely devoted to Abbie that he realizes her well-being is the most important thing. She had to go to the ER multiple times with hyperemesis gravidarum and I cannot imagine him ruling with an iron fist, telling her she absolutely had to have unlimited kids and be deathly ill each time. I think if she told him she could never go through with it again, he'd accept it.

On 2/24/2020 at 8:14 PM, GeeGolly said:

I'm not making the connection between not eating local food with being religiously conservative. And volunteering for a few days during a honeymoon compared to a year in Nepal and nearly a year in Central America seems to me that Austin evangelized when the opportunity arose rather than devoting substantial amount of time to it.

I don't think there's any doubt that Austin is the most conservative of any of them. They consider their family camp to be full time ministry, so that would be his answer to the fact that he hasn't gone overseas. 

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On 2/25/2020 at 9:54 PM, Sew Sumi said:

I think both Austin and Joy doubled down on the fundie beliefs after their respective rebellions. Bobby Ballinger (Austin's now BIL) certainly did. 

How did Joy rebel exactly? 

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2 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Funny how Derick liked that. He has posted all kinds of shit slamming TLC, but now he'd be open to a show?

Derick reminds me of a three year old playing a game. Trying to change the rules to whatever will make him win.

yes he has slammed TLC in the past and praised the UP network that has the bates show.

he must not know any of the shows there besides the bates' show. can you just imagine Jill watching the Gilmore Girls?? UP has that on all the time

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3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

Funny how Derick liked that. He has posted all kinds of shit slamming TLC, but now he'd be open to a show?

Derick reminds me of a three year old playing a game. Trying to change the rules to whatever will make him win.

A lot of people seem to forget that Derick's main beef with TLC wasn't the money, it was them have a show about a trans girl. More broadly, I think, it was about him and the Duggars not being allowed to be open about their beliefs in spite of JB's insistence that the show is a ministry. In that light, I can see why he liked that tweet, because he's imagining a show where he'd be able to say whatever he wants.

It's seriously blowing my mind that the narrative has shifted to Derick being some kind of liberal savior of Jill because of the kindergarten thing.

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1 hour ago, lascuba said:

A lot of people seem to forget that Derick's main beef with TLC wasn't the money, it was them have a show about a trans girl. More broadly, I think, it was about him and the Duggars not being allowed to be open about their beliefs in spite of JB's insistence that the show is a ministry. In that light, I can see why he liked that tweet, because he's imagining a show where he'd be able to say whatever he wants.

It's seriously blowing my mind that the narrative has shifted to Derick being some kind of liberal savior of Jill because of the kindergarten thing.

OMG, Yes!  I've been disturbed by this.  It's not new that Derick's attitude toward education was likely not to be the Duggar way, since he was not home-schooled.  He has not renounced his ugly, hateful world view or suddenly become an open, honest and truthful person.

Sending Israel to kindergarten is a tiny step that does not indicate that the world has shifted on its axis and that everything is different.  I hate to add lots of speculation, but it seems likely that the impetus for this was from Derick, not Jill.  There is nothing hinting that she is suddenly interested in getting more education for herself or that she wants a career now.

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1 hour ago, Suzn said:

OMG, Yes!  I've been disturbed by this.  It's not new that Derick's attitude toward education was likely not to be the Duggar way, since he was not home-schooled.  He has not renounced his ugly, hateful world view or suddenly become an open, honest and truthful person.

Sending Israel to kindergarten is a tiny step that does not indicate that the world has shifted on its axis and that everything is different.  I hate to add lots of speculation, but it seems likely that the impetus for this was from Derick, not Jill.  There is nothing hinting that she is suddenly interested in getting more education for herself or that she wants a career now.

Exactly. Also, being nice/understanding/patient/encouraging with Jill doesn't make him the anti-fundie. Plenty of super shitty people are genuinely kind and loving to those they care about. It's meaningless. I don't want Jill to be treated poorly, but how allegedly good Derick is to her changes nothing about my opinion of him.

Edited by lascuba
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7 hours ago, Suzn said:

 

Sending Israel to kindergarten is a tiny step that does not indicate that the world has shifted on its axis and that everything is different.  I hate to add lots of speculation, but it seems likely that the impetus for this was from Derick, not Jill.  There is nothing hinting that she is suddenly interested in getting more education for herself or that she wants a career now.

"He's SBC, not fundie!" Is the new defense. The Southern Baptist Convention is a pretty shitty religion, with terrible beliefs. Literally a religion created in defense of slavery. Ask Derick about that one...

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9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

All of them are better off with an SBC Derick than they would be with an IBLP Derick. That’s not an endorsement of the SBC, it’s a recognition that there are degrees of bad and the SBC is, in many ways, less bad than IBLP. 

. . . Change is incremental. . . . broadening the circle of people [Jill] and Izzy know can only be a step forward, not backward. And maybe after 13 years of public school and college, Izzy’s beliefs will have been challenged to the point that he changes his mind about some of the things he was taught. Maybe Jill’s will as well. 

THANK YOU for that!! That's where I'm coming from, and I believe I've posted similar things in this discussion. I've never thought that Derick would lead Jill into some kind of "liberal" lifestyle, but yes I am not surprised that he, Jill, and their kids are living a mainstream type of Arkansas life. 

47 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Absolutely well stated!  I grew up in the heart of the SBC.  I can't stand Baptists and religion in general but the SBC aren't all horrible people.  I disagree with most of their beliefs but most of the ones I know are educated people who try to live their lives according to the gospel.  They don't tend to home school and they aren't a cult.  

From where Jill came from, the SBC is down right enlightened. It might not be the life we want for Jill but it's miles away from the Gotthard cult she grew up in.  She's never going to shave her head and fly a rainbow flag.  So I am happy that she's doing anything mainstream, even if it's still religious and conservative. She's giving her boys a chance at a normal life.  When these kids get an education, they have the ability to earn their own money.  And that breaks JB's hold over them.  And that is freedom, my friends.   I realize that Derrick is a dick, but I'll take his brand of dickness over JB's any day.

And, thank you too! I've mentioned my dozens of SBC relatives who are, as you said, educated people who try to live their lives according to the gospel. They don't live in compounds or dress funny. They also, without making a fuss or fanfare, do a lot to help other people, including strangers and folks who aren't in a position to help them. Just saying.

Edited by Jeeves
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9 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Actually I’m one of the people who said that, and I didn’t say it was a defense to anything. His beliefs, as I believe I said before, are abhorrent. The point I was making was that Derick, while still a prick, was not as fundie as the Duggars. Whatever you or I may think of it, the SBC is a mainstream church attended by millions of people, including divorced people and people who use birth control and women who work and people who go on dates. It is far more mainstream than a church in Kendra’s dad’s garage attended by a handful of people which preaches that birth control is a sin, kids can’t hold hands before getting engaged and women have to wear ankle-length skirts and flip flops to atone for the sins of Eve, or whatever. Derick following SBC teaching might still be a bigot, but he’s a bigot with whom Jill has some freedom and his sons have the chance at a decent education. All of them are better off with an SBC Derick than they would be with an IBLP Derick. That’s not an endorsement of the SBC, it’s a recognition that there are degrees of bad and the SBC is, in many ways, less bad than IBLP. 

Sometimes it seems like people aren’t going to think the Duggar kids have “broken free” unless they completely relinquish their religious beliefs. I don’t think that’s how it works. Change is incremental. I’m sure most of us would love it if Jill woke up tomorrow and became a feminist and a marshal at the Pride parade, but that’s not going to happen. However, broadening the circle of people she and Izzy know can only be a step forward, not backward. And maybe after 13 years of public school and college, Izzy’s beliefs will have been challenged to the point that he changes his mind about some of the things he was taught. Maybe Jill’s will as well. 

Here's where I'm coming from... all those incremental tiers between IBLP and whatever anyone's personal idea of "free" is are still filled with major assholes who are actively trying to make the world an even worse place. I fully understand that change is slow and gradual, I just refuse to give any of these people much credit for any less bad choices they make, because when it comes down to it, they are still doing harm. Their public faces, how "nice" they might be on an interpersonal level, mean nothing to me. Derick and Jill are still the motherfuckers who posted a picture of Israel's line of block with a caption about him "building the wall." The fact that Derick might possibly be encouraging Jill to not be as rigid as her parents isn't going to give me the warm fuzzies in light of that. If or until they complete all the steps to being decent humans and not religious automatons is when I'll applaud them. Until then, I'm going with the safer bet that any positive changes they appear to be making are about their own comfort and enjoyment rather than any well-thought changes of heart.

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52 minutes ago, lascuba said:

Here's where I'm coming from... all those incremental tiers between IBLP and whatever anyone's personal idea of "free" is are still filled with major assholes who are actively trying to make the world an even worse place. I fully understand that change is slow and gradual, I just refuse to give any of these people much credit for any less bad choices they make, because when it comes down to it, they are still doing harm. Their public faces, how "nice" they might be on an interpersonal level, mean nothing to me. Derick and Jill are still the motherfuckers who posted a picture of Israel's line of block with a caption about him "building the wall." The fact that Derick might possibly be encouraging Jill to not be as rigid as her parents isn't going to give me the warm fuzzies in light of that. If or until they complete all the steps to being decent humans and not religious automatons is when I'll applaud them. Until then, I'm going with the safer bet that any positive changes they appear to be making are about their own comfort and enjoyment rather than any well-thought changes of heart.

This is exactly my position too.  I don't care that they may on the surface be less extreme.  They are still people who want to limit the rights of others and worse.  They are dangerous people who we need to see for what their intent is and not be lulled by some things that appear more mainstream.

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6 minutes ago, Suzn said:

This is exactly my position too.  I don't care that they may on the surface be less extreme.  They are still people who want to limit the rights of others and worse.  They are dangerous people who we need to see for what their intent is and not be lulled by some things that appear more mainstream.

I get the excitement after watching these people for years, because they were so extreme and ridiculous. But it really isn't the no-pants, long hair, accountability partners, etc. stuff that matters on a fundamental (no pun intended) level, and it's really not that significant that those are the first things to change. I see those things as affectations of new converts to show that they're "in," and it's not surprise that subsequent generations drop those habits.

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Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

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24 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

Because he might learn to think for himself.

Which is a fantastic thing, but not if you want someone to blindly follow.

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29 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

The harm is not in sending Israel to school.  The harm is believing that they have changed their views in any significant way.  They still want to limit the rights of others.

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43 minutes ago, PikaScrewChu said:

Genuine question. How are they doing harm by sending Israel to public school?

Proper schooling is one of the reasons the Jeubs weren't able to keep all their children in the fold.

Err, I didn't say sending him to school was doing harm. I'm saying sending him to public school doesn't change the fact that they are doing harm. Derick grew up going to public school. So did Michelle, for that matter.

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13 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

Whatever you or I may think of it, the SBC is a mainstream church attended by millions of people, including divorced people and people who use birth control and women who work and people who go on dates. It is far more mainstream than a church in Kendra’s dad’s garage attended by

 I’m really glad my post provoked a lot of really good discussion. My semester is killing me so I wish I could write something more substantial in response.  I didn’t mean my time to sound accusatory toward you. I will agree that Southern Baptists are more main stream, but my exposure to attending their churches and meeting new people is there’s a lot of winking and nodding and admiration for people that live like fundamentalists do. Even Jim Bob has a relationship with the pastor of Cross Church, who, if I am not wrong, is the head of the SBC.  It’s also interesting every Baptist Church in my area has changed their name taking the word Baptist out and Calling it some neutral name on par with cross church.

 I understand that breaking away is a process and honestly we do tear up Jill for every little thing.  She and Derreck both  invite this by sharing every little aspect of their lives online. I wish her therapist would focus on teaching Jill to maybe get some privacy while she is going through major changes and just not post everything, or anything at all. 

What does breaking away actually look like to me? She may actually totally leave religion altogether, many people in worse situations and worse religions have left, and make Jill’s struggles look like child’s play.  I agree with the posters who say the Dillards are still basically assholes, because they are.  I will consider Jill to a broken away when she is able to hold a conversation like an adult, and not like a brainwashed 13-year-old girl. With critical thinking and opinions of her own.  She will be broken away when she is able to hold down some kind of job, responsibilities, or simply wake up in the morning with a freaking alarm clock on a consistent basis.  She will be broken away with the grifting stops.  She will be broken away when she is actually able to verbalize her emotions, and make choices for herself, and honestly express herself, like maybe the number of children she wants to have. Or her feelings for children in general. 

 She will be broken away when she is a whole person.  I think she will get there, eventually.  I think her boys will, which is more than we can say for any of these other kids. 

He’s a whole person, just a horribly bitter person. I get the feeling he wants to take revenge on some of the slights of his life and is going to use being a Jude or lawyer to do it. I wonder how empty he is going to feel after his first victory and there’s nothing left. 

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I'm doubtful anyone here is salivating over the fact the Dillards have sent their kids to public school and that means everything is forgiven.

Plenty of hateful people have gone to public school. Plenty of perfectly pleasant people have gone to public school. At least Israel has the chance to be exposed to new ideals and not be doomed to 100% buy into what his parents are selling like the rest of his cousins. That's how the fundie cycle starts to break down.

People are going a bit overboard on Twitter, yes. But I see this as a net positive for the kid. If nothing else, at least they made the right decision for Izzy for once. Derick and Jill may be a lost cause but the boys aren't (yet).

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At a minimum Izzy will get answers to many questions. Anyone remember the video where Izzy asked why they could see the moon in daytime and Jill completely ignored him? It wasn’t rocket science and homeschool teacher Jill was stumped.

Edited by SMama
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2 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m really glad my post provoked a lot of really good discussion. My semester is killing me so I wish I could write something more substantial in response.  I didn’t mean my time to sound accusatory toward you. I will agree that Southern Baptists are more main stream, but my exposure to attending their churches and meeting new people is there’s a lot of winking and nodding and admiration for people that live like fundamentalists do. Even Jim Bob has a relationship with the pastor of Cross Church, who, if I am not wrong, is the head of the SBC.  It’s also interesting every Baptist Church in my area has changed their name taking the word Baptist out and Calling it some neutral name on par with cross church.

 I understand that breaking away is a process and honestly we do tear up Jill for every little thing.  She and Derreck both  invite this by sharing every little aspect of their lives online. I wish her therapist would focus on teaching Jill to maybe get some privacy while she is going through major changes and just not post everything, or anything at all. 

What does breaking away actually look like to me? She may actually totally leave religion altogether, many people in worse situations and worse religions have left, and make Jill’s struggles look like child’s play.  I agree with the posters who say the Dillards are still basically assholes, because they are.  I will consider Jill to a broken away when she is able to hold a conversation like an adult, and not like a brainwashed 13-year-old girl. With critical thinking and opinions of her own.  She will be broken away when she is able to hold down some kind of job, responsibilities, or simply wake up in the morning with a freaking alarm clock on a consistent basis.  She will be broken away with the grifting stops.  She will be broken away when she is actually able to verbalize her emotions, and make choices for herself, and honestly express herself, like maybe the number of children she wants to have. Or her feelings for children in general. 

 She will be broken away when she is a whole person.  I think she will get there, eventually.  I think her boys will, which is more than we can say for any of these other kids. 

He’s a whole person, just a horribly bitter person. I get the feeling he wants to take revenge on some of the slights of his life and is going to use being a Jude or lawyer to do it. I wonder how empty he is going to feel after his first victory and there’s nothing left. 

Great post. I'd just add one caveat to the breaking away; when it comes to children, if she ever comes to the conclusion that motherhood was not for her, and that she resented having to take that route in life, I hope she does not pass that on to the kids. I would hope that she could simply state that two children was quite enough without implying that it was more than she wanted. 

If course, I hope that she does NOT come to a conclusion that she would have been happier without her children, but just in case...

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2 hours ago, SMama said:

At a minimum Izzy will get answers to many questions. Anyone remember the video where Izzy asked why they could see the moon in daytime and Jill completely ignored him? It wasn’t rocket science and homeschool teacher Jill was stumped.

This!  None of us think Jill and Derrick are changed for the better because of sending their kids to public school.  We just think they'll be able to conjugate verbs correctly, know the difference between gone and went, and not say "anyways".  It means they may go to college, earn a paycheck and stop the dependence on the TLC JB gravy train.  Education is the way for many who are trapped in a myriad of bad circumstances.  By not being taught by a badly educated mom, the two boys may have a chance to have a normal life where they don't have to play by JB's rules.  And that is indeed freedom.

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There’s another reason I hope Izzy stays in school. He strikes me as a child who needs approval and having other ways to succeed other than trying to figure out his inconsistent parents could really help his self-confidence.

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Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

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4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

 Creationism, with pretty much no actual science. 

Jessa’s hot take on evolution

 Jenna was film for the show  when I went to the creation Museum saying evolution made sense but her programming suddenly kicked in and she said it couldn’t possibly be real anyway. 

 There are many such examples out there. 

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4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 Creationism, with pretty much no actual science. 

Jessa’s hot take on evolution

 Jenna was film for the show  when I went to the creation Museum saying evolution made sense but her programming suddenly kicked in and she said it couldn’t possibly be real anyway. 

 There are many such examples out there. 

Thank you!

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I see people talking about Jill seeing a therapist. Did I miss something? I don't think it was ever confirmed that she was seeing someone. She seems to read some self-help books, but it doesn't mean she's actually going to a real therapist.

Edited by Future Cat Lady
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I think if Jill was to move from Super Fundy to Fundy-lite it would be an improvement. I think Izzy going to school is awesome.

But Izzy going to school doesn't mean Derick has changed.

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54 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Real question...what kind of science were the Duggar kids taught at Duggar Academy?  Actual real science, creationism, something else etc. Thanks!

I don't know exactly what they used in addition to the ATI "wisdom booklets." But they did use those to some extent -- and the ATI stuff  "taught" "science" that pretends to be real but is basically scientific lingo twisted for the purpose of convincing people of Gothard's ideas about how to live and, according to some people, confusing everybody including the parents to the point that they give up and just take Gothard's word for stuff instead of ever trying to understand and think for themselves.......Wouldn't be surprising if that were true -- that's pretty much what Scientology "teachings" do, too. 

Here's some analysis of the "science" portions of the ATI "curriculum" from a critic, at Patheos...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/07/examining-ati-wisdom-booklets-booklet-1-science-portion-how-eyes-work/

It shows how they put in stuff that, at first blush, looks like science but actually is just a bunch of sophistry in "scientific" terms created to prove Gothard-y "principles." .... Very similar to the famous "lessons" about "bankruptcy law" and so on in those books. 

(Some more links to the same writer's commentary on other wisdom' booklets' science stuff -- and text from the booklets themselves -- are at this url       http://whencowsandkidscollide.blogspot.com/p/ati-wisdom-booklet-debunked.html       )

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5 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

I don't know exactly what they used in addition to the ATI "wisdom booklets." But they did use those to some extent -- and the ATI stuff  "taught" "science" that pretends to be real but is basically scientific lingo twisted for the purpose of convincing people of Gothard's ideas about how to live and, according to some people, confusing everybody including the parents to the point that they give up and just take Gothard's word for stuff instead of ever trying to understand and think for themselves.......Wouldn't be surprising if that were true -- that's pretty much what Scientology "teachings" do, too. 

Here's some analysis of the "science" portions of the ATI "curriculum" from a critic, at Patheos...

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2016/07/examining-ati-wisdom-booklets-booklet-1-science-portion-how-eyes-work/

It shows how they put in stuff that, at first blush, looks like science but actually is just a bunch of sophistry in "scientific" terms created to prove Gothard-y "principles." .... Very similar to the famous "lessons" about "bankruptcy law" and so on in those books. 

 

Thank you!

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8 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Gothard's eye lesson is notorious. And it's about all the "science" there is.

Have they ever said what other publisher of school materials -- if any -- they've used? 

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Bin taught a science class in an episode last season. I wonder what scholarly research he based that lesson on?

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8 minutes ago, Churchhoney said:

Have they other said what other publisher of school materials -- if any -- they've used? 

Jill mentioned her curriculum, but I don't recall what it was. It was NOT ATI. 

Jessa is using the Charlotte Mason method.

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4 minutes ago, Namaste said:

Bin taught a science class in an episode last season. I wonder what scholarly research he based that lesson on?

Well, Bin being Bin, I have a feeling that he probably actually tried to base his lesson on something decent (according to his lights)....I think Bin means well.....But....Bin's intentions and Bin's knowledge and ability ... uh....kinda...diverge.....

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Aethera

If your post is not PRIMARILY about the Duggars, it will be removed. Please stick to the topic or take it to Small Talk, thank you.

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