Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[emma675]

I'm betting friend Rachel also wrote that post for Jill or told her exactly what to write. That is a lot of mlm hun speak.

[Lunera]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

 

 

What the hell! She looks like a 45 year old chainsmoker. 

 

 

[leighdear]

Way to poison your kids, Jill....

   "Dryer lint isn’t a safe fire starter. The various chemicals that can be present in it from your clothing, laundry detergent, or fabric softener can be dangerous when they’re burned."

[awaken]

22 hours ago, Zella said:

Derick really needs to learn the art of quietly deleting tweets that call him out on his bullshit rather than trying to engage. He's neither witty nor clever enough to turn those around on people without getting his ass handed to him. 

lol, I hope not!  I depend on his crazy rants to entertain me!  

[mynextmistake]

On 2/17/2020 at 11:50 AM, Temperance said:

I don't think they're all that secretive about Sam's birth. Sam was born via c-section after 40 hours of labor.  TLC seems to have stopped filming them about that time so no episode. Fundies love homebirth and vaginal birth, so most of the leghumpers weren't interested in hearing about a second consective c-section. (As someone who knows multiple babies/people now grown and their mothers who were saved by c-sections, it makes sad and angry that fundies and even regular people shame women who've had c-sections.)

As for Jill having more kids, both Jill and Derick have made it clear they think Jill can have more kids. Derick said she didn't get a hysteretomy and both he and Jill have made statements saying they expect/ may want to have more children. If there is some reason Jill can't have more kids, then the Dillards haven't realised that yet. Derick has also mentioned wanting to deliberately slow the baby train so it could be deliberate they have yet to have more children. 

Thank you for this. I had a crash C-section for fetal distress. Mini Mistake came out with an APGAR of 4 (for reference, they frequently intubate babies born at 3 or below).  When I asked my doctor what would’ve happened if we had waited, he looked me straight in the eye and said “she probably would’ve died.“

Shame Jill for being a bad Christian, for having a douche of a husband, for being intellectually incurious, for being a terrible midwife, for never styling her hair, or for any number of other things. But C-section shaming? Fuck that shit. Fuck that shit all the way to hell. Because at the end of the day, C-sections are the reason I go home to a live preschooler instead of pictures of a dead baby, and anyone who has a problem with that can see me in the street.

C-section shaming. Why the fuck are we so awful to women in this country? What’s wrong with us? 

[QuinnInND]

6 minutes ago, mynextmistake said:

Thank you for this. I had a crash C-section for fetal distress. Mini Mistake came out with an APGAR of 4 (for reference, they frequently intubate babies born at 3 or below).  When I asked my doctor what would’ve happened if we had waited, he looked me straight in the eye and said “she probably would’ve died.“

Shame Jill for being a bad Christian, for having a douche of a husband, for being intellectually incurious, for being a terrible midwife, for never styling her hair, or for any number of other things. But C-section shaming? Fuck that shit. Fuck that shit all the way to hell. Because at the end of the day, C-sections are the reason I go home to a live preschooler instead of pictures of a dead baby, and anyone who has a problem with that can see me in the street.

C-section shaming. Why the fuck are we so awful to women in this country? What’s wrong with us? 

I'm so glad you and MiniMistake are here and ok! C-section shaming is a real thing. One of my best friends had sections with both of her children. She would have labored to death with the first one, if not for having a c-section. Some stupid women think that women who have a c-section take "the easy way out". Yes, because major abdominal surgery is the easy way. Unless the baby comes out of your vagina, you're somehow less of a woman and mother. Most of these moron women also badmouth and shame women for not breastfeeding. I call them the Mammary Mafia. I had to put one in their place when my son was a baby. I wasn't producing enough milk, so we switched to formula. One time while waiting in the office at the pediatrician, some woman told me "You know, breast is best"... My response? "You know what else is really good? Minding your own fucking business!!" Don't ever let me hear a woman run down or degrade some woman for having a c-section or not breastfeeding. They'll get my wrath. 

[Absolom]

I would shame Jill for laboring for 40 hours (if she did they are dreadful at actual labor calculations) before going to the hospital while trying to VBAC at home.  That was a stupid move.

[JoanArc]

33 minutes ago, Absolom said:

That was a stupid move.

If any of the adult kids ever gets a spinoff this is going to be the tagline.

[mynextmistake]

34 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I would shame Jill for laboring for 40 hours (if she did they are dreadful at actual labor calculations) before going to the hospital while trying to VBAC at home.  That was a stupid move.

Agreed.

[Temperance]

35 minutes ago, Absolom said:

I would shame Jill for laboring for 40 hours (if she did they are dreadful at actual labor calculations) before going to the hospital while trying to VBAC at home.  That was a stupid move.

It was never clear if she was at home. 

[GeeGolly]

4 hours ago, Temperance said:

It was never clear if she was at home. 

I thought it was 70 hours of labor for Izzy and 40 hours for Sam. From my experience and those of my friends, hospitals don't typically keep pregnant moms in labor at the hospital that long. If labor isn't progressing but everything checks out good, they send them home. If labor isn't progressing and things don't check out good, they get the baby delivered ASAP.

What I'm curious about is how soon after Jill presented at the hospital, did they realize Izzy was breech.

@doodlebug would know best of how long labors are managed by labor and delivery.

[BigBingerBro]

Not Sonic, but Waffle House!

[Jeeves]

Ya know, Waffle House is a rather nice counterpoint to the Reverend Pretentious Pants posts from trendy LA eateries. Waffle House is appropriate for a law student. I'd think Derick was throwing subtle shade at RPP, the ostensible seminary student, but we know that DD is incapable of subtlety on SM, heh.

Jill looks nice in that photo.

Edited February 19, 2020 by Jeeves

[BitterApple]

I can't get over how much better Jill looks with shorter hair. That's a really nice picture of her.

[galaxychaser]

14 hours ago, leighdear said:

Way to poison your kids, Jill....

   "Dryer lint isn’t a safe fire starter. The various chemicals that can be present in it from your clothing, laundry detergent, or fabric softener can be dangerous when they’re burned."

The food she feeds them is poison too. Nothing but salt.

[crazy8s]

waffle house for valentine's day is so something mrcrazy8s and i would do.

we gave up the buying cards and candy and restaurant's over priced special dinners years ago. we think were rebels not falling for marketing 🤣

Jill and Derick have a darn lot of food there for 2 people

[xwordfanatik]

1 hour ago, BigBingerBro said:

Not Sonic, but Waffle House!

They've only been married 5 years?  Somehow it seems a lot longer.

[Fig Newton]

Not bad.

#Lawschoolcouplevalentine actually makes sense to me. A brief celebration postponement of a stupid Hallmark Holiday. Ain't nothing wrong with that. And waffle house. YES! No fancy meals needed to proclaim love.

Real people, who are REALLY  in college/grad school/law school,  can't always celebrate like fake student Jeremy ( the ass) on the actual date of said holiday.

[EVS]

19 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

Not seeing the difference?

I see a slight difference but I suspect that growing up she never learned how to properly take care of her skin or had a regular skin care routine. If that’s the case, then any decent product, used regularly, would give her improved skin. 

[dariafan]

I can’t shade for Waffle House    But I am so tired of them sitting same side of booth.  We get it. You are sooooo in love  🤮 

[Broken Ox]

1 hour ago, crazy8s said:

waffle house for valentine's day is so something mrcrazy8s and i would do.

 

Those reservations go fast. Mr. Ox tried to get them for us this year, and the best we could do was counter service if we got there around 5 pm. I told him to try again (earlier) next year.

[galaxychaser]

1 hour ago, xwordfanatik said:

They've only been married 5 years?  Somehow it seems a lot longer.

It’s 35 in dog years. 

[PradaKitty]

Jill looks cute in that picture. Derrick, on the other hand, looks like ass. 
He could use a good haircut and a shave. 

[farmgal4]

15 hours ago, Absolom said:

I would shame Jill for laboring for 40 hours (if she did they are dreadful at actual labor calculations) before going to the hospital while trying to VBAC at home.  That was a stupid move.

Exactly!  I would never shame her for having a C-section, but I do hold her mostly responsible for what happened during the laboring stage of both pregnancies.  She was an idiot for not seeking professional medical attention until it was too late to do anything other than have C-sections.  What went down during both births could’ve most likely been avoided had Jill used some common sense.

[libgirl2]

4 hours ago, Broken Ox said:

Those reservations go fast. Mr. Ox tried to get them for us this year, and the best we could do was counter service if we got there around 5 pm. I told him to try again (earlier) next year.

WE went out the day after. Had no problem getting in on a weeks notice. We were going to a concert right down the street to the place and thought it would work out well for the night. 

I also thinks she looks nice in that picture. Her hair looks darker. 

[Temperance]

6 hours ago, xwordfanatik said:

They've only been married 5 years?  Somehow it seems a lot longer.

It will be 6 in June so 5 and 1/2 years. 

3 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

Exactly!  I would never shame her for having a C-section, but I do hold her mostly responsible for what happened during the laboring stage of both pregnancies.  She was an idiot for not seeking professional medical attention until it was too late to do anything other than have C-sections.  What went down during both births could’ve most likely been avoided had Jill used some common sense.

We don't know that she could have avoided the c-section in either case. With Israel's birth, she allegedy went to hospital a long time before the actual c-section. Jill went to the hospital on Saturday or Sunday and the c-section was preformed late Monday night.  We have no idea when Jill went to hospital with Sam.  If the hospital sent her home for failure to progress, then that would be their fault. Jill and Derick could also be counting earlier in her labor when the contractions were faint and when it would be common sense to wait for later. There's nothing wrong with getting a c-section. Most c-sections are not electives, but medically necessary. Jill may be an idiot for postponing the inevitable, but it's unclear if the c-sections could be avoided. Saying a smart person could avoid the c-section is not necessarily true. Many of the smartest women I know had c-sections after getting good prenatal care, planning on a vaginal birth, and going to a hospital. (And while I know Jill might not have done those last three, my point is those three things wouldn't necessarily have changed the outcome even if she had. )

Edited February 19, 2020 by Temperance

[GeeGolly]

22 minutes ago, Temperance said:

It will be 6 in June so 5 and 1/2 years. 

We don't know that she could have avoided the c-section in either case. With Israel's birth, she allegedy went to hospital a long time before the actual c-section. Jill went to the hospital on Saturday or Sunday and the c-section was preformed late Monday night.  We have no idea when Jill went to hospital with Sam.  If the hospital sent her home for failure to progress, then that would be their fault. Jill and Derick could also be counting earlier in her labor when the contractions were faint and when it would be common sense to wait for later. There's nothing wrong with getting a c-section. Most c-sections are not electives, but medically necessary. Jill may be an idiot for postponing the inevitable, but it's unclear if the c-sections could be avoided. Saying a smart person could avoid the c-section is not necessarily true. Many of the smartest women I know had c-sections after getting good prenatal care, planning on a vaginal birth, and going to a hospital. (And while I know Jill might not have done those last three, my point is those three things wouldn't necessarily have changed the outcome even if she had. )

However if Jill was getting professional prenatal care, she would have likely known that Izzy was breech.

[Sew Sumi]

And transverse. 

The midwife claimed that a 10 pound kid flipped at the last moment. Jill was already two weeks late. I don't think there was anywhere for Izzy to flip to. 

[Temperance]

8 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

However if Jill was getting professional prenatal care, she would have likely known that Izzy was breech.

Israel wasn't breech; he was transverse. Breech is feet first; traverse is sideways.

One thing that has never made sense about Israel's birth is that Jill was supposedly in the hospital from at least Sunday to Monday and yet the hosptial didn't catch the baby was traverse until at least 24 hours later? 

It's still possible Jill could have done everything right and ended up with a c-section. And there's nothing wrong with c-sections. 

 

[Absolom]

According to the episode that aired, Jill went to the hospital only sometime the night that Izzie was delivered.  It was only a relatively short time.  She may have been admitted late one day and delivered just into the next day.  Granted she might have always needed c-sections, but if Izzie was transverse all along, if she'd had competent care then she could have saved herself needless laboring and taking castor oil and so on.  (Sunday 10 pm to Monday 12:45 AM for instance.)  Trying VBAC at home with Sam was flat stupid.  If she wanted to VBAC, which is a fine idea, she should have followed recommendations and done it in a hospital with competent actual medical supervision.

[Sew Sumi]

7 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Israel wasn't breech; he was transverse. Breech is feet first; traverse is sideways.

One thing that has never made sense about Israel's birth is that Jill was supposedly in the hospital from at least Sunday to Monday and yet the hosptial didn't catch the baby was traverse until at least 24 hours later? 

It's still possible Jill could have done everything right and ended up with a c-section. And there's nothing wrong with c-sections. 

 

The midwife claimed he was both breech AND transverse. Not quite sure how that would work.

[Temperance]

4 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

The midwife claimed he was both breech AND transverse. Not quite sure how that would work.

Yikes!

[Temperance]

9 minutes ago, Absolom said:

According to the episode that aired, Jill went to the hospital only sometime the night that Izzie was delivered.  It was only a relatively short time.  She may have been admitted late one day and delivered just into the next day.  Granted she might have always needed c-sections, but if Izzie was transverse all along, if she'd had competent care then she could have saved herself needless laboring and taking castor oil and so on.  (Sunday 10 pm to Monday 12:45 AM for instance.)  Trying VBAC at home with Sam was flat stupid.  If she wanted to VBAC, which is a fine idea, she should have followed recommendations and done it in a hospital with competent actual medical supervision.

She gave birth late Monday night close to midnight on Tuesday. Here's what fundie wiki has to say:

 "Twenty hours into labor, they saw a faint sign of meconium and moved to a hospital. Jill initially declined Pitocin to speed her labor. After seventy hours of labor, the baby had flipped into a transverse breech position and experienced irregular heart rates. At this time, the couple and their doctors made the decision to move forward with a C-section." 

According to that statement she was in the hospital for 50 of the 70 hours of labor. This is consistant with my memory that she was actually in the hospital a long time before they discovered the transverse position and decided to a c-section.

Also why Jill has never stated whether she tried to have a homebirth with Sam. 

[Oldernowiser]

SEVENTY HOURS????

😱

[Absolom]

She also went to get a pedicure while she was allegedly in labor.  I never trust any TLC calculation of labor nor do I trust any Duggar calculation of labor.  They've been known to count from water breaking or the entire prodromal phase.

I honestly do not remember seeing or thinking that Jill was in the hospital that long.  I'm sure I'd have noticed if that was in the actual episode.  

[Sew Sumi]

I think fundie wiki got it backwards. I remember Jill at home for quite a while before they caved and went to the hospital for intervention.

[Absolom]

They may have been using People as a reference and we know their reliability.  

[GeeGolly]

Jill was shown laboring at home before the pedicure, and then again, after, with an IV hanging from her bedpost. I think she also went out to dinner. That seemed to be longer than 20 hours, more like maybe more than a day had gone by. Also, I don't believe it was 70 hours and I'm thinking the hospital would have figure out Izzy's position long before 50 hours had passed.

[Temperance]

45 minutes ago, Absolom said:

She also went to get a pedicure while she was allegedly in labor.  I never trust any TLC calculation of labor nor do I trust any Duggar calculation of labor.  They've been known to count from water breaking or the entire prodromal phase.

I honestly do not remember seeing or thinking that Jill was in the hospital that long.  I'm sure I'd have noticed if that was in the actual episode.  

Most of Jill in labor wasn't shown on TLC. They basically cut from the baby shower to the c-section

I agree that the Duggars count lots of pre-labor. They're not the only people who do that. 

However I do think it's possible Jill was in the hospital probably for some time before they had the c-section. Most doctors won't perform one against the patient's will if she is conscious. 

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Most of Jill in labor wasn't shown on TLC. They basically cut from the baby shower to the c-section

I agree that the Duggars count lots of pre-labor. They're not the only people who do that. 

However I do think it's possible Jill was in the hospital probably for some time before they had the c-section. Most doctors won't perform one against the patient's will if she is conscious. 

Jill initially refused the c-section?

[Absolom]

3 minutes ago, Temperance said:

Most doctors won't perform one against the patient's will if she is conscious. 

They can't do a c-section against the conscious patient's will unless they can establish mental incompetence and their next of kin or medical power of attorney agrees. 

Just now, GeeGolly said:

Jill initially refused the c-section?

Knowing Jill she probably did.

[Temperance]

21 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Jill initially refused the c-section?

 I don't know if Jill refused the c-section, but that sounds likely based on the timeline. But this is speculation.

It's consistant with how I remembered the timeline, but I was going based on what TLC (which deliberately confused everything) and People reported. And yes they could be both be wrong, but considering how  everything they did say looked bad enough, why lie? And if we can't go with the only records we have, then we have no information to basis opinions on! I remember that this seemed like an awfully long time to wait for a c-section, but according to the sources I've found this is what happened. 

We started down this debate, because I'm tired of people shaming women (many of whom are friends and relatives) for having c-sections. And saying that the woman should have tried harder to avoid it, makes sound it's something that must be avoided.  It's fine that Jill had a c-section. It's fine that they planned for a vaginal birth and then had to do a c-section.  It does seem nuts to me that Jill spent hours in labor well past the point where the solution should have been obvious.  

Edited February 20, 2020 by Temperance

[FizzyPuff]

On 2/18/2020 at 3:13 AM, Picture It. Sicily said:

Maybe because jill is talking about a fun memory with her cousins and her boys aren't going to have too many memories of spending time with their cousins?

What other cousins does Jill have other than Amy? 

Edited February 20, 2020 by PuffinFizz

[GeeGolly]

8 hours ago, Temperance said:

 I don't know if Jill refused the c-section, but that sounds likely based on the timeline. But this is speculation.

It's consistant with how I remembered the timeline, but I was going based on what TLC (which deliberately confused everything) and People reported. And yes they could be both be wrong, but considering how  everything they did say looked bad enough, why lie? And if we can't go with the only records we have, then we have no information to basis opinions on! I remember that this seemed like an awfully long time to wait for a c-section, but according to the sources I've found this is what happened. 

We started down this debate, because I'm tired of people shaming women (many of whom are friends and relatives) for having c-sections. And saying that the woman should have tried harder to avoid it, makes sound it's something that must be avoided.  It's fine that Jill had a c-section. It's fine that they planned for a vaginal birth and then had to do a c-section.  It does seem nuts to me that Jill spent hours in labor well past the point where the solution should have been obvious.  

I think for most folks, healthy baby, healthy mommy is the birth goal, no matter how the baby gets into the world including vaginal births, c-sections and adoptions.

Jill on the other hand had a plan that didn't include any variables and therefore made a lot of poor choices around Izzy's birth. She also claims to be a midwife. While most deliveries will happen without complications, some don't. Two lives can be at stake during delivery and Jill's poor choices showed an arrogance and immaturity that could have jeopardized her life and Izzy's.

[Trillium]

From Reddit: There’s a lot to unpack here, but I’ll focus on the singular heart shaped chocolate. 

[SMama]

4 hours ago, PuffinFizz said:

What other cousins does Jill have other than Amy? 

Michelle’s nieces and nephews, although it does not seem like Jill spent much time with them. 

[Marshmallow Mollie]

1 hour ago, Trillium said:

From Reddit: There’s a lot to unpack here, but I’ll focus on the singular heart shaped chocolate. 

Why is it on a tray on the bed?!?!?! Garlic stuffed olives served on the bed?!

Otherwise this is sweet and exactly the kind of presents I like - garlic stuffed olives included.

[Zahdii]

1 hour ago, Marshmallow Mollie said:

Why is it on a tray on the bed?!?!?! Garlic stuffed olives served on the bed?!

Otherwise this is sweet and exactly the kind of presents I like - garlic stuffed olives included.

I think Jill wants everyone to know that her gift also included sweet fellowship.  She appears to be terrified that someone will think they're not boinking every chance they get.

[dariafan]

Or she had horrible role models and is gross in her displays of over affection 

[Ohiopirate02]

2 hours ago, Zahdii said:

I think Jill wants everyone to know that her gift also included sweet fellowship.  She appears to be terrified that someone will think they're not boinking every chance they get.

I can see that.  Jill has not announced a new pregnancy in quite awhile.  This is an easy way to show everyone she is not slacking on her wifely duties, but that God just has decided not to bless her and Dreck with another child at the moment.  She was raised to see her worth only in how many arrows she could procreate for her headship, this does not surprise me at all.