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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

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Josh was sent to dig out a pond on a farm as punishment for using campaign computers to watch porn (no suggestion it was anything other than adults pictured) during Jim Holt’s campaign. (This was discovered after Holt lost the campaign.) Josh's head was shaved. But, he was brought back home for the days when TLC crews were there.

ETA: My source for this is the podcast series, "I Pray You Put This Journal Away," in which a young man named Justin discusses his background in a fundie family. He was a young teen (a couple of years younger than Josh) when his dad decided the family would attend the Duggars' church. That's how he got to know Josh and the other Duggars.

Justin was in the Duggars' church when Josh was outed for the porn-watching, shamed before the church, and sent out to that farm to toil alone digging the pond for weeks. This occurred a few year after the molestations; Justin said that at the time he had no knowledge of the molestations. 

Josh was brought home from the pond digging for each day when the TLC crews were there filming. Justin talked about being in some scenes as one of the several people who showed up to "help" build the TTH, or at least be shown in TV footage as helpers, lol.

I don't know if the TTH construction was in the show being filmed when Josh was on pond digging duty, or was another special or episode. It's been awhile since I listened to the podcasts and I don't remember. 

Anyway I found Justin's description of the whole thing to be credible. Also, I thought it was interesting that Justin described how chill Josh seemed about things on those shooting days when he was home (with no indication given to the TLC crew of where he was when they weren't filming). 

 

Edited by Jeeves
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1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

Is part of Josh’s release to the Rebers that he could only have phone with no internet? So maybe now his internet is limited but I would guess before that he was not. 

As per the bond hearing:

Mrs. Reber, who I sincerely hope will have Josh Duggar out of her house one way or another very soon, said that their house did not have Wifi. They answered emails by turning their phones into Wifi hotspots for brief periods of time. Her husband confirmed this.

Separately, as a condition of his release, the judge told Josh that "you are not to possess, access, utilize, any internet capable device, including computers, tablets, iPads, Smartphones, gaming devices, smart TVs."

Whether or not Josh is actually following that condition is a separate question. 

Edited by quarks · Reason: (edited sentence after remembering that the Reber daughter is marrying Anna's brother, so Josh will probably never be completely out of their lives, but maybe he can get out of their house)
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48 minutes ago, Zella said:

My spidey senses match your spidey senses. I don't think he actually believes in anything the family teaches, but he lacks the fortitude needed to pipe up and say it. I'm sure he can spin things to where he sounds like a martyr for Christ when he needs to, for his parents' and wife's benefit, but I don't think he actually thinks it. I've said this on here before, but I don't think Josh processes shame, embarrassment, or humiliation like other people. I really doubt he gives a shit about how any of this has affected his family, but I don't think he has a problem playing them when needed. 

That's the truly scary thing about him.  He really is incapable of thinking of other people's feelings.  I would love to know what diagnosis they will give him in prison.  I don't know about his religious beliefs.  People have a strange way of finding solace in god when they are up shit creek.  I'm sure he doesn't believe in anything above himself.  But I bet he goes primal and reverts to basics when that gavel sentences him.

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54 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Josh was sent to dig out a pond on a farm as punishment for using campaign computers to watch porn (no suggestion it was anything other than adults pictured) during Jim Holt’s campaign. (This was discovered after Holt lost the campaign.) Josh's head was shaved. But, he was brought back home for the days when TLC crews were there.

ETA: My source for this is the podcast series, "I Pray You Put This Journal Away," in which a young man named Justin discusses his background in a fundie family. He was a young teen (a couple of years younger than Josh) when his dad decided the family would attend the Duggars' church. That's how he got to know Josh and the other Duggars.

Justin was in the Duggars' church when Josh was outed for the porn-watching, shamed before the church, and sent out to that farm to toil alone digging the pond for weeks. This occurred a few year after the molestations; Justin said that at the time he had no knowledge of the molestations. 

Josh was brought home from the pond digging for each day when the TLC crews were there filming. Justin talked about being in some scenes as one of the several people who showed up to "help" build the TTH, or at least be shown in TV footage as helpers, lol.

I don't know if the TTH construction was in the show being filmed when Josh was on pond digging duty, or was another special or episode. It's been awhile since I listened to the podcasts and I don't remember. 

Anyway I found Justin's description of the whole thing to be credible. Also, I thought it was interesting that Justin described how chill Josh seemed about things on those shooting days when he was home (with no indication given to the TLC crew of where he was when they weren't filming). 

 

That's right, now I remember. That was in 2006 when Holt ran and TLC did two specials on building the house. That was 4 years after the molestations and the same year they were turned into the authorities.

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9 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

That's the truly scary thing about him.  He really is incapable of thinking of other people's feelings.  I would love to know what diagnosis they will give him in prison.  I don't know about his religious beliefs.  People have a strange way of finding solace in god when they are up shit creek.  I'm sure he doesn't believe in anything above himself.  But I bet he goes primal and reverts to basics when that gavel sentences him.

Will Josh get treatment in prison? If I had to guess a diagnosis, I would guess antisocial personality disorder.

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My guess is if Josh received any treatment in prison, the results would be negligible because he'd probably respond in the same way he seems to have Jesus jail and any other effort that's been used to corral him--he'll halfheartedly comply to avoid further issues but not participate in any meaningful way or sincerely try to get anything out of it. I don't think he wants help. He just doesn't want to be caught. 

Edited by Zella
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8 minutes ago, Zella said:

My guess is if Josh received any treatment in prison, the results would be negligible because he'd probably respond in the same way he seems to have Jesus jail and any other effort that's been used to corral him--he'll halfheartedly comply to avoid further issues but not participate in any meaningful way or sincerely try to get anything out of it. I don't think he wants help. He just doesn't want to be caught. 

I think Zella (?) said it up stream, you can't force someone to fix things in therapy.  He's beyond fixing at this point.  Some people should be locked away from society because they can't compromise to fit inside of it.  Josh is a predator.  It's his nature to take advantage of people.  He has no moral compass.  All we can hope for is that he gets a long enough sentence to mitigate his influence on society.

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Smuggar is a textbook psychopath. He's too charming (remember all the emcee gigs he gets) to be a full-on sociopath. He's smarmy to a fault. I can't believe people still fall for it. But some people believe he's a devout Christian, so he's good at fooling people as he lives a life built on lies.

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40 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

He has no moral compass.

He’s a person that could have benefited from being allowed to go to an actual school ( private or public) and having to develop social skills. Being sent to the principals office and dealing with consequences. Learning about morals, ethics and making some actual decisions as a child. 
Some people just seem born with a high moral and ethical code,  others need the structure and failing and consequences in order to learn at least some  semblance of it, such as a conscience. 
It’s hard for people like Josh to develop  a moral compass when Mom and Dad don’t let you make any decisions, believe males are  inherently evil  and require accountability partners just to go in the next room. 
Note to the Duggar’s - maybe don't tell kids that males are inherently evil and have  no chance of being decent people 

Edited by mythoughtis
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1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Smuggar is a textbook psychopath. He's too charming (remember all the emcee gigs he gets) to be a full-on sociopath. He's smarmy to a fault. I can't believe people still fall for it. But some people believe he's a devout Christian, so he's good at fooling people as he lives a life built on lies.

Sociopath and psychopath aren't actual diagnoses. Anyone with those traits and meets the criteria, would be diagnosed with antisocial personality disorder. 

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Yeah, I realize that at least psychopath isn't an official diagnosis, more of a descriptor. Smuggar is actually a very social fellow. He primarily worked as a salesman and was a schmoozer at the FRC. Maybe he is actually antisocial, but if he is, he does an excellent job faking it. 

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5 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yeah, I realize that at least psychopath isn't an official diagnosis, more of a descriptor. Smuggar is actually a very social fellow. He primarily worked as a salesman and was a schmoozer at the FRC. Maybe he is actually antisocial, but if he is, he does an excellent job faking it. 

Antisocial personality disorder, like borderline personality disorder have crappy and confusing names. APD doesn't mean one isn't social, at least not in the physical sense. It more means they don't truly connect socially on a deep and caring level. Someone with APD doesn't know to fake anything because they are always the last to know they have any issues, and even then they most likely won't believe it.

Like any diagnoses there's a spectrum to severity, but folks diagnosed with APD can be very dangerous. Its a scary diagnosis in my field because even in its mildest form, a therapist can get caught in the client's web. With that said, most folks with APD don't get therapy, or stay in therapy. Actually, many end up in and out of rehab and/or in and out of jail for much of their adult life.

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!.  josh said years ago he did not want a lot of kids and you could tell from annas 3rd pregnancy on he was not interested.

2.. the irony  is that if the Duggars had turned josh in when he was 14  he would have been a minor gone before the judge and  being a minor the records would have been sealed forever...because they hid him out until he was an adult   the records were not sealed and  a reporter used FOIA to get the records ( and the  molestation of his sisters came out)

 

 

 3. Mrs Pearl said this about  child molesting husbands  you call the police he goes to jail, goes to trial found guilty serves time

,,THENNNNNN  you welcome him home with open arms because he is still your husband and the kids are hopefully now grown ( this totally ignores that the kids probably have their own kids now and  the kids (now parents) that were originally molested can carry life long   problems and seeing there molester father again is horrible).

 

just to add mr Pearl (mrs Pearls husband) wrote the book "how to train up a child" that had "blanket training"  we know michelle did blanket training and she helped them sell that book and they helped the duggars sell their book at the same time (several children died from the abuse from the Pearls   book)

 

 

 

Edited by sue450
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2 hours ago, BigBingerBro said:

According to a source that spoke with The Sun, Josh’s brothers and sisters are allegedly beginning to “have doubts” even while Jim Bob allegedly continues to work hard to prove Josh’s innocence. The source notes Jim Bob is “working hard behind the scenes to get him off,” adding, “he’s setting up meetings, paying lawyers and consultants, doing whatever he can to make sure his son doesn’t go to jail.”

Nothing in the reporting around this has actually indicated that JB believes Josh is “innocent”; he’s just tying to keep him from going to federal prison. Josh definitely deserves it but JB is probably motivated by pride/fear of public shame and maybe wanting to protect his horrid son. I suspect the older sisters never had much trouble believing Josh was capable of all kinds of sick and destructive behavior. 

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16 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

The truth is that we don.t know what the Duggars really think about Josh and his arrest. All these articles are from gossip rags who do their reporting by visiting fan sites. They know nothing and I don't believe in any of their "sources".

Isn't it funny how many of their articles reflect some of our most recent discussion? 🤔

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15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Isn't it funny how many of their articles reflect some of our most recent discussion? 🤔

Methinks the online snarker community in general is almost always the unnamed source. LOL

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2 hours ago, Future Cat Lady said:

The truth is that we don't know what the Duggars really think about Josh and his arrest. All these articles are from gossip rags who do their reporting by visiting fan sites. They know nothing and I don't believe in any of their "sources".

We don’t and they’re probably  all made up. That said, with so many siblings (and lots of small children among their families), I’m 💯 sure at least a few have doubts.

Edited by Cinnabon
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1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

We don’t and they’re probably  all made up. That said, with so many siblings (and lots of small children among their families), I’m 💯 sure at least a few have doubts.

I'm sure they do, however, we also haven't seen a single one of the kids come out with a public statement expressing belief in Josh' innocence, even in the early days after the arrest.  I don't think they're 'just starting' to believe he's guilty, they always thought he was.

Even JB and M haven't tried to excuse Josh in their public statements, just BS like hoping the truth will be revealed and justice will be served, whatever the outcome.  I think they've asked for prayers for the family, too, but no expression of confidence that their firstborn won't go to the slammer.

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I think they know he did it. They know about his porn addiction. The real question is if they think it's a big deal or not. They do have the mindset that all sins are equal, that all porn is the same and all is forgiven if you believe in the right Jesus. 

So even if they know he did it, they may think it's not serious since he didn't actually abuse anyone.

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5 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Thankfully federal prosecutors don’t.

Then I pray that JB and Meech watch one of these videos and see if they think all sin is equal. I literally want to smack the shit out of both them. And if God thinks all sin is equal, then I don't have much use for him either.  CP is heinous.  And trust me, it doesn't have to be DD to turn your stomach.  The degradation of these poor souls is heart wrenching.  I will step off my soap box now.

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As "public figures" the only safe statement the Duggar siblings can make is a neutral one. Their objective is to create distance between themselves and Josh's charges. I can't say I blame them there.

As we get closer to the plea date, I'm leaning toward Josh going to trial. If he goes to trial and loses, he still leaves a gray area of possible innocence. If he pleas, even with a public excuse of why, that gray area kind of disappears.

(I think he's guilty - no gray area for me)

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This article just popped up as a push notification from the local news. It's the first I've seen in a while as a push notification from them about Josh's case. 

On the surface, I don't see what is new, despite the note it had been updated today. I wonder if the reporter is a little muddled, and this means the fifth motion was finally denied? Because the first four motions being denied is not new news. I'm not sure how to check to see if the fifth motion was finally ruled on since it's a federal case.

https://www.4029tv.com/article/josh-duggar-motions-denied/37949612

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This article only deals with 4 motions and the reasons they were denied:

 

Josh Duggar's latest motions in child pornography case denied by court: Here's why

 

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/josh-duggar-apos-latest-motions-165158168.html

 

Another article:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nwahomepage.com/northwest-arkansas-news/josh-duggars-trial-to-continue-motions-to-dismiss-evidence-denied/amp/

Edited by ginger90
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7 hours ago, Zella said:

Because the first four motions being denied is not new news. I'm not sure how to check to see if the fifth motion was finally ruled on since it's a federal case.

I believe what's new today is the court issuing the judge's rationale in denying the first 4 motions.  Apparently he has not yet ruled on the motion for a Franks hearing, which may push all the other dates out. 

Edited by Quilt Fairy · Reason: Rationale, not rational. Words matter.
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Just now, Quilt Fairy said:

I believe what's new today is the court issuing the judge's rational in denying the first 4 motions.  Apparently he has not yet ruled on the motion for a Franks hearing, which may push all the other dates out. 

Ah okay thank you! You were considerably clearer than the reporter. :) 

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6 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Apparently he has not yet ruled on the motion for a Franks hearing, which may push all the other dates out. 

Mrs. Reber is desperately praying that it doesn't. 😁

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1 hour ago, Zella said:

Ah okay thank you! You were considerably clearer than the reporter. :) 

No thanks due to me.  I get all my updates from Reddit. 

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I absolutely hate Mr. Reber (and I really don't hate anyone) for allowing Sex Pest to live in their home along with his daughter and unwilling wife. She made it clear she did not want him, or does she feel safe. Ugh.

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From Reddit, this is the pdf of the memorandum opinion, explaining the rulings:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/fco2dto6a9xe546/MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER 10-13-21.pdf?dl=0

It's all pretty straightforward. 

The judge apparently wasn't impressed at all with the hands and feet motion, called the Homeland Security motion "frivolous," and noted that the entire question about what federal agents did or didn't do with the cell phones could be handled in the trial under cross examination. The only motion the judge does seem to have taken seriously/carefully was the motion to suppress Josh's initial statements to federal agents.

It's probably not incidental that those statements are pretty damning. 

 

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56 minutes ago, Westiepeach said:

Isn’t it getting close to “Possible Plea Day?” 

I think I am not the only one who will be visiting this particular thread Very Regularly in the next few days!  I don't know what I want though - a plea or to see his sorry self on trial!

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1 hour ago, Westiepeach said:

Isn’t it getting close to “Possible Plea Day?” 

Monday, Oct 18th, IIRC. 

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37 minutes ago, SusannahM said:

a plea or to see his sorry self on trial!

I vote for "sorry self on trial".

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I have a couple of questions:

I know that an attorney works for their client and all communications between them are confidential. But, if a 3rd party is paying the huge attorney’s fees, can that 3rd party say: “I must be included in all communication and I will have input on all decisions or I will stop paying the fees”?

Next question:

Do you think the Duggar’s are gamblers? Will they tell Josh to take a plea? Although that will be admitting his guilt, it will protect all family secrets. (I’m sure there is more skeletons in that shared family close.)

OR

Will they tell Josh to go to trial? He “might” get lucky and be acquitted. Then they can talk about persecution, martyrdom, and how they persevered during this “season of life.” But that will reveal all of Josh’s ugly secrets and quite possibly family secrets as well. 
Will they take that chance?

 

another question:

remember Casey Anthony? When it got down to the wire, she and her attorney threw her father under the bus. 
Do you think Josh and his attorneys would do that? (Not exactly the same way, but you know…similar.) if you think he would, who does he choose to blame?

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I suppose it would also matter what kind of deal Josh is being offered. I think I read somewhere (maybe here), deals is cases like these don't tend to offer more than a reduction of a year or two. I can see rolling the dice then, even for a non-Duggar. Being a Duggar, Josh (& JB) will likely think he'll get a couple of fans and a couple of likeminded Christians on the jury. 

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Wild speculation here:
What if the top, most famous, most successful defense attorney in Arkansas were a woman? Would the Duggar klan have hired her?
As I said wild speculation only, but do speculate!

Edited by Dianaofthehunt
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9 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Wild speculation here:
What if the top, most famous, most successful defense attorney in Arkansas were a woman? Would the Duggar klan have hired her?
As I said wild speculation only, but do speculate!

No way in fucking hell would that happen. 

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13 minutes ago, Dianaofthehunt said:

Wild speculation here:
What if the top, most famous, most successful defense attorney in Arkansas were a woman? Would the Duggar klan have hired her?
As I said wild speculation only, but do speculate!

If the most cutthroat federal defense lawyer known for getting people acquitted on CSA cases in Arkansas and surrounding states was a polyamorous lesbian Satanist, the Duggars would gladly pay her fee.  The Duggars don't care about the personal life of their lawyers, they care about the results the lawyer can provide.

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The thing about the Josh-won't-plead-guilty thing that bothers me most (and my guess is that, very very very unfortunately, he won't) is that, to me, it shows that he truly has absolutely no concept of ethics/morality/decency at all and that he doesn't give a single crap about the one group of people he might possibly give a tiny crap about -- his seven children. 

Because. to my mind, what he owes those children is the truth and a life as free as possible from media stories about their father's trial on hideous charges -- whether they see those stories today or accidentally pull them up on Google 20 years from now. If he goes to trial, then he doesn't have an atom's worth of concern for his own children, his own little loinfruit, his own DNA. And that's a pretty lowest-common-denominator human concern that sometimes surfaces even in very scummy people.  But if Josh allows this to go to trial, in my opinion he has absolutely zero conception of what he owes those kids.

I know he didn't want so many. But if he could figure out how to secretly locate and download hard-to-access evil materials, he could have figured out how to get a vasectomy without telling anybody. 

That said, I'm still hoping he pleads guilty, for those children.

Because imagine their future lives -- "educated" at the SOTDRT, still indoctrinated with all manner of Gothard-y crap and the most fundie of fundiness, and living in a world where media stories about their "celebrity" father's scandalous trial on horrifying charges will be scattered here and there in other people's memories and all around the internet, like landmines and UXBs. Forever. 

 

 

 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Scarlett45

Guidelines for the thread:

Charges have been made public that specifically name possession of Child Sexual Abuse Material, discussion of charges are allowed. However, discussion of victims, or possible victims (and their identities) related to these charges are NOT ALLOWED
We are not here to provide content for ghoulish rubbernecking- there is no need to discuss the graphic details related to these charges, the moderators are not going to police posts for graphic content- posts will be removed and violators will be warned. Do not attempt to circumvent this guideline with spoiler tags.

You MAY discuss the 2015 scandals, and any statement a NOW ADULT victim has made public as previously instructed, but speculation on unnamed victims or minor victims is NOT allowed. 

Jokes, asides, memes etc regarding the sexual assault of anyone, INCLUDING Josh Duggar are not allowed.

As of May 10, 2021: Please respect the privacy of the Reber family, discussion of their social media postings, public statements to the press/court testimony are acceptable. Discussion of their activities on their property, their schedule, where/how they run their errands not acceptable. Again, discussion of social media/court statements/public statements to the press- FINE, "So and So saw the Rebers standing in their yard/grocery shopping/getting gas"- NOT fine. 

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