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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

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Supervision of child visitation in a divorce action has to be paid for if there are no neutral parties among family members or close friends that both parties agree to and the Court will approve because there is no case worker on the case.  In certain circumstances the Court may require it be held in a therapeutic setting if there is a particular issue causing problems between a parent and child(ren).   That's obviously paid for also. 

Supervision of child visitation in a protective matter can be by a family member if the Court approves, by a case worker from family or human services at their agency offices, or sometimes the Court can order it to be in a therapeutic setting where a mental health provider is designated by the Court to work on issues that are barriers to reunifying the children with the parent(s). 

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2 hours ago, Zella said:

LOL That is a good point. I suspect in the same way that Josh was the golden boy for the Duggars and their prince that was promised, Holt probably had near messianic views of himself.

I must admit that is something I never thought too much about until reading that AMA with Josh's childhood friend. I know from being around fundies that they can have a high opinion about themselves and their families and their place in the world, but it had never really clicked for me how extreme that can be. 

It occurred to me later that it might be another manipulation tool. A person might be willing to “sin” for their own gratification but maybe it would give them pause to think others might suffer for it? Whatever, this cult is loony. 

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4 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 Very telling that he was digging that pond for looking at porn instead of Molesting his sisters. 

Really can’t wrap my head around going to a church for you loudly proclaim your sins and have a group punish you for them. Isn’t that what God is for? Aren’t you doing his job for him at that point?

Regarding the porn only - imagine being that shocked and upset that a 16-17 year old teen boy had been curious enough to look at porn on a computer? Almost all teen boys do this, probably at an earlier age these days. I don’t necessarily think that’s a great thing (mostly because porn is usually completely unrealistic), but that’s the reality. I was the type of kid/teen who was always MORE interested in anything I was prohibited from watching /doing (within limits). My parents were strict about what I could watch on tv, so guess what I watched as soon as they were out or otherwise occupied? By punishing Josh so much for simply being naturally curious about women and porn as a teen boy seems ludicrous and probably added to his dysfunction.

Edited by Cinnabon
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3 hours ago, hathorlive said:

Or worse, that a grown man blames a kid looking at porn for losing an election.  I'm shocked at how superstitious these Christians are.  I'm surprised they don't have a Ouija board out to predict who will sin next.

I don't consider them to be true Christians-at all. More of a cult than anything Christian-like.

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48 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

I don't consider them to be true Christians-at all. More of a cult than anything Christian-like.

It's so true. And these fundie people like Josh think they can do whatever they want because "only God can judge them". I've been on the receiving end of words like that and it is INFURIATING.

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Any word on whether Anna and kids visited him?  I would think TMZ or some other media would be parked nearby.  Or is the view of the house not accessible from the road?

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don't  forget  when josh was before the elders in the church..the way they got him to confess was they threatened to shave an innocent  girls  head  (gothard says all females MUST have long hair.), so to do this to  a female in this cult would be devastating.

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Has it been confirmed that visitation has to be supervised by a 3rd party? I don't recall anyone who was on the zoom call reporting this. And can Anna visit alone to service her pig of a husband? Is that allowed?

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I don't recall any restrictions on adults visiting or being around Josh, just minors, so if Anna wanted to go on her lonesome, I don't think anything would forbid it. 

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23 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Has it been confirmed that visitation has to be supervised by a 3rd party? I don't recall anyone who was on the zoom call reporting this. And can Anna visit alone to service her pig of a husband? Is that allowed?

Visitation only has to be surpervised by Anna. Haven’t seen the courts order so I’m unclear whether the kids could visit w a 3rd party like Jana without Anna. My gut is that the Probation Officer would need to approve that. He can have adult visitors certainly his wife so yes she can visit him to “satisfy” him all she wants. 

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Just now, Zella said:

I don't recall any restrictions on adults visiting or being around Josh, just minors, so if Anna wanted to go on her lonesome, I don't think anything would forbid it. 

Yeah, that was my understanding. It's just disgusting to think about.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, RedDelicious said:

It's so true. And these fundie people like Josh think they can do whatever they want because "only God can judge them". I've been on the receiving end of words like that and it is INFURIATING.

And yet THEY can and do judge people who don't share their beliefs.  Infuriating indeed.

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I’m picturing StinkBus2, dilapidated to the degree of the Walking Dead RV, rolling up with freshly tinted windows and TT casserole. Or maybe JB will loan Anna the (frigging) Slingshot he drove in the birthday parade. But probably not. Ugh.

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3 minutes ago, RedDelicious said:

I’m picturing StinkBus2, dilapidated to the degree of the Walking Dead RV, rolling up with freshly tinted windows and TT casserole. Or maybe JB will loan Anna the (frigging) Slingshot he drove in the birthday parade. But probably not. Ugh.

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

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22 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Yeah, that was my understanding. It's just disgusting to think about.

 

 

 

 

She may be staying with him every night and/or day.  It wouldn’t surprise me at all.

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53 minutes ago, sue450 said:

don't  forget  when josh was before the elders in the church..the way they got him to confess was they threatened to shave an innocent  girls  head  (gothard says all females MUST have long hair.), so to do this to  a female in this cult would be devastating.

You must be kidding me!  These people are twisted, evil POS.

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15 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry!

I know, me too! 🤭

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38 minutes ago, cereality said:

He can have adult visitors certainly his wife so yes she can visit him to “satisfy” him all she wants. 

Ewww.

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Anna is really fucked up if she still has sex with him. Either way, intentional or pressured. Will she finally make a stand?

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I think Anna is probably way past the point of no return here. I mean, she continued to sleep with him even after all the other shit that would have put someone else off. 

Edited by Zella
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4 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think Anna is probably way past the point of no return here. I mean, she continued to sleep with him even after all the other shit that would have put someone else off. 

Her entire sense of worth is in her fecundity and desirability. 

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Plus what is she going to do?   She has no education and 6 (7) kids?   How is she going to support that many kids by herself? She has a free house right now and her kids' needs are met.     If she toes the party line and stands by her man, the idiot and his even more idiotic wife will continue to support her and the kids.   Heck they might even convince TLC to give her her own show about coping as a single parent after Idiot Jr is sent to real people prison.

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Mod Annoucement:

An addition was made to the guidelines by @deaja yesterday. The Mod Announcement on the thread homepage has been amended, as has the red box above the reply box here, but I wanted to make sure everyone was aware. 

 

As of May 10, 2021: Please respect the privacy of the Reber family, discussion of their social media postings, public statements to the press/court testimony are acceptable. Discussion of their activities on their property, their schedule, where/how they run their errands not acceptable. Again, discussion of social media/court statements/public statements to the press- FINE, "So and So saw the Rebers standing in their yard/grocery shopping/getting gas"- NOT fine. 

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I don’t think Anna has much of a choice about having sex with Josh or not. The women in this cult are taught that they can’t say no and that marital rape doesn’t exist. Also, they probably think that having sex with his wife will control Josh’s urges. 

Edited by Future Cat Lady
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47 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don’t think Anna has much of a choice about having sex with Josh or not. The women in this cult are taught that they can’t say no and that marital rape doesn’t exist. Also, they probably think that having sex with his wife will control Josh’s urges. 

Um ...  

If true, it seems the word think doesn't mean what they believe it does. 

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57 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

I don’t think Anna has much of a choice about having sex with Josh or not. The women in this cult are taught that they can’t say no and that marital rape doesn’t exist. Also, they probably think that having sex with his wife will control Josh’s urges. 

 

7 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Um ...  

If true, it seems the word think doesn't mean what they believe it does. 

I'm actually a little worried about this. He's a guy with sick urges who is now being monitored. Even if he can set up some way to get to these nasty things again, it will take a little time. I can't imagine he's someone who can go without for very long.  From what I read his imagines weren't just young, but also violent. I hope he doesn't find the need to be violent with her. 

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16 minutes ago, 3girlsforus said:

 

I'm actually a little worried about this. He's a guy with sick urges who is now being monitored. Even if he can set up some way to get to these nasty things again, it will take a little time. I can't imagine he's someone who can go without for very long.  From what I read his imagines weren't just young, but also violent. I hope he doesn't find the need to be violent with her. 

I agree with you. That’s why I have some sympathy for Anna. I don’t think her private life with him is all that good. 

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2 hours ago, merylinkid said:

Plus what is she going to do?   She has no education and 6 (7) kids?   How is she going to support that many kids by herself? She has a free house right now and her kids' needs are met.     If she toes the party line and stands by her man, the idiot and his even more idiotic wife will continue to support her and the kids.   Heck they might even convince TLC to give her her own show about coping as a single parent after Idiot Jr is sent to real people prison.

I was going to say that that wouldn't happen only because Anna would refuse to acknowledge the severity of Josh's actions (remember "Josh's teenaged....wrong choices"?), in addition to her being unwilling to consider herself a single mother because of course she'll be waiting for Josh to get out and make more babies with her. But then I remembered that this is TLC, and they won't care.

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Anna has been raised to believe it's her mission in life to satisfy her man and pop out as many babies as she can during her fertile years. She has never shown any inclination to do otherwise. She has wealthy in-laws who will continue to house and feed her and her offspring no matter what. There's no way she'll flee or seek a divorce. She's in it for the long haul. If and when Josh winds up behind bars, she'll wait for him, and the minute he's set loose, she'll be ready for another pregnancy. As far as the charges go, she probably doesn't want to know the grim details. Satan is messing with her husband, and prayer is the answer. 

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2 hours ago, lascuba said:

I was going to say that that wouldn't happen only because Anna would refuse to acknowledge the severity of Josh's actions (remember "Josh's teenaged....wrong choices"?), in addition to her being unwilling to consider herself a single mother because of course she'll be waiting for Josh to get out and make more babies with her. But then I remembered that this is TLC, and they won't care.

Life after Lock Up a Duggar very special episode

Edited by crazy8s
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1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

Put a fork in him, he's done!

Okay, so it took me a few days to catch up, but I read an account that someone attending the bond hearing typed up.  And I have to say that Josh is screwed.  I have NEVER, EVER in 17 years of doing this been able to put a suspect behind the keyboard like they have in this case.  Josh's geolocation activity with his phone will do him in.  I've never had this kind of collaboration of activity and still gotten mostly guilty verdicts in federal court.    The text messages saying he'd be late, while downloading CP is golden.  As is the picture of the wreck outside the porn shack taken while he's downloading porn.  It's golden.  I don't see how they can lose this case.  It will be very hard for Josh to say that another person came in the tiny shack, sat at his computer and downloaded CP while Josh was in the same place at the same time.

I was looking forward to hearing your take on the details! They are rather damning. 

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2 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Put a fork in him, he's done!

Okay, so it took me a few days to catch up, but I read an account that someone attending the bond hearing typed up.  And I have to say that Josh is screwed.  I have NEVER, EVER in 17 years of doing this been able to put a suspect behind the keyboard like they have in this case.  Josh's geolocation activity with his phone will do him in.  I've never had this kind of collaboration of activity and still gotten mostly guilty verdicts in federal court.    The text messages saying he'd been late, while downloading CP is golden.  As is the picture of the wreck outside the porn shack taken while he's downloading porn.  It's golden.  I don't see how they can lose this case.  It will be very hard for Josh to say that another person came in the tiny shack, sat at his computer and downloaded CP while Josh was in the same place at the same time.

This is the best news I've heard all day. I watched two episodes of Dateline last night while folding laundry that I just picked at random and both ended in inexplicable not guilty verdicts and it got me thinking that I really hope they have Josh dead to rights because juries are stupid. It sounds like they do and I'm so very glad. Now I really hope they just plea it out because his siblings don't deserve a long, drawn-out trial. I assume at least some of the family might have to testify too. I hope he does the right think and spares them that. 

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6 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Put a fork in him, he's done!

Okay, so it took me a few days to catch up, but I read an account that someone attending the bond hearing typed up.  And I have to say that Josh is screwed.  I have NEVER, EVER in 17 years of doing this been able to put a suspect behind the keyboard like they have in this case.  Josh's geolocation activity with his phone will do him in.  I've never had this kind of collaboration of activity and still gotten mostly guilty verdicts in federal court.    The text messages saying he'd be late, while downloading CP is golden.  As is the picture of the wreck outside the porn shack taken while he's downloading porn.  It's golden.  I don't see how they can lose this case.  It will be very hard for Josh to say that another person came in the tiny shack, sat at his computer and downloaded CP while Josh was in the same place at the same time.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this...

Josh took a picture of a car accident, texted Anna and downloaded the CP, all basically within minutes of each other?

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4 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure I'm understanding this...

Josh took a picture of a car accident, texted Anna and downloaded the CP, all basically within minutes of each other?

Yeah he was taking pictures of a wreck that happened outside of the carlot and texting relatives about praying for the victim while he was downloading this shit, and as a result, he is admitting he was there and his phone was geolocating him at the carlot. 

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9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

I'm not sure I'm understanding this...

Josh took a picture of a car accident, texted Anna and downloaded the CP, all basically within minutes of each other?

Here's the summary from the person on Reddit who listened to the hearing and the agent's testimony. I didn't include it because it is trigger warned, but that is the same day he also downloaded the file that the agent said was one of the absolute worst he had ever seen. 

Quote

 

On May 15, 2019 at 11:35am computer user downloads 3 torrent files associated with CP.

Throughout the course of the day on May 15, Josh Duggar sends texts to 22 members of the Duggar family asking them to pray for a motorcyclist who got in an accident by Wholesale Motors. Computer also gets used to write reviews online under the name “Joshua.”

There’s also geolocations of photos taken at the car lot by Josh’s phone, but that piece of evidence doesn’t get admitted because D objects to lack of foundation regarding the reliability of geolocation data

 

 
Edited by Zella
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3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah he was taking pictures of a wreck that happened outside of the carlot and texting relatives about praying for the victim while he was downloading this shit, and as a result, he is admitting he was there and his phone was geolocating him at the carlot. 

Wow. What the fuck are his lawyers doing? They should be telling him to plead guilty now.

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3 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow. What the fuck are his lawyers doing? They should be telling him to plead guilty now.

For real! 

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1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

In many cases, I have to explain very, very difficult technical concepts to a jury to get them to understand why someone is guilty. It doesn't take much to have the police testify that on xyz date, there was an accident outside the porn shack.  Then show the picture taken with the metadata that gives the geo location and time and date, and then show the text messages to the family, showing the accident.  That is as clear as it can be to a jury.  Even a stupid jury.

That was going to be my question, will this information be conveyed to the jury in a straightforward way that even I can understand it, or will it have to be presented in an tedious series of data dumps by a series of tech experts?    That's where I see jurors take their eyes off the ball, get lost in the weeds, get frustrated and then get fooled by defense closing argument that there's reasonable doubt in that mess.   

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1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

From the lawfirm of Bled 'Em and Pled Em.   I'm sure they'll get 100,000 from JB before they suggest doing just that.

Yes, they can spot an easy mark and will make sure they are handsomely paid first! 

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11 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

Normally I would agree with you about sparing his sisters, but the sad fact is that we need as many people as possible to see what Josh was doing.  And to shun him and stop "forgiving him for jesus" BS.  The family, especially JB and Mechelle need to see what the hell he was up to and what they've created and nurtured.  If these lawyers make the mistake of saying he doesn't have any "real" victims, I hope a sister testifies against him.   I know it won't happen, but the more people who see this video will never listen to JB and Mechelle say that the images weren't so bad...that they were innocent kids doing kid stuff. We've already seen them downplay and dismiss what he did to his sisters, I don't want them doing the same thing here.

Yea I know you are right but it still sucks for his sisters. I am also horrified that he will get to sit in the trial and see that video again. I don't know that he's ashamed enough to balance the fact that it will turn him on. That just makes me want to vomit. All of this makes me want to vomit. Ugh - now I'm getting angry. 

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1 minute ago, GeeGolly said:

Wow. What the fuck are his lawyers doing? They should be telling him to plead guilty now.

Lots of online discussion board legal scholars are predicting that Josh's lawyers will   advise him to plead guilty. He has until July 2 or something to change his plea.

Some people are looking for potential loop holes though just to see if the defense can mount any sort of response. Of course that's difficult to do when not even half the facts are known publicly.

There was something about the original local officer - who first got the ping about suspicious activity. He did not have an NIT (network investigative technique) warrant or capability or something. I have yet to really understand all that -- but they say it could lead to saying the initial search was not justified. From what I read - vERY LIMITED UNDERSTANDING - a TOR browser sort of scatters IP addresses as a way to cover what its doing. And the only way to get the correct IP is with this NIT technology which is like legal hacking.  So if the local officer didn't have NIT, perhaps the initial IP address was wrong. Obviously we know it wasn't wrong, but they could use this to argue that the initial search was not legal- even though of course we know that they actually got two legal search warrants afterward. I'd be grateful if anyone could explain what this means. 

All that being said, I agree that hopefully Josh will at least get the minimum of 5 years PLUS extra for the under 12 yrs old stuff.

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5 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

That was going to be my question, will this information be conveyed to the jury in a straightforward way that even I can understand it, or will it have to be presented in an tedious series of data dumps by a series of tech experts?    That's where I see jurors take their eyes off the ball, get lost in the weeds, get frustrated and then get fooled by defense closing argument that there's reasonable doubt in that mess.   

If I can explain epochal time in Unix to a jury in a murder trail, they should be able to present this with ease.  Our programs pull out meta data. So there's a report that shows the image, the camera it was taken with, sometimes the make/model/serial number of camera (or phone), the timestamps, and the geolocation.  They just have to put it up on a screen and walk them through it.  I had to show people a Unix time stamp, convert the number to a date using another tool, then adjust it for daylights savings time, and voila, the suspect was at the house at the time of the murder doing google searches.  This is much more straight forward.

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1 minute ago, hathorlive said:

If I can explain epochal time in Unix to a jury in a murder trail, they should be able to present this with ease.  Our programs pull out meta data. So there's a report that shows the image, the camera it was taken with, sometimes the make/model/serial number of camera (or phone), the timestamps, and the geolocation.  They just have to put it up on a screen and walk them through it.  I had to show people a Unix time stamp, convert the number to a date using another tool, then adjust it for daylights savings time, and voila, the suspect was at the house at the time of the murder doing google searches.  This is much more straight forward.

I know what epochal time in Unix is... call me next time you need a juror LOL

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The defense attorney probably isn't averse to earning a good living, but he probably also understands that his reputation is key to that being an ongoing matter, not just a single score on one case.   Even if Josh ends up pleading out this guy no doubt has a retainer agreement that offers up a good payday that allows him to move on to the next.   If he has a big reputation, there is another payday waiting out there for him already.

The attorney can tell a client to plead all he wants, but in the end the client has to decide to go through with it.   Predator types are a different species than other criminals.   They like to always be in control and are always sure they know best.   They only concede when they are completely convinced there is absolutely no other way out, and then they just want to concede, be done with it -- and then promptly flip into the mode where they demand an appeal and no one can convince them they won't get one and win it.    Josh ain't known as Smuggar for no reason.

Complicating the matter in this case is you also have JB's unshakable belief that he also can control everyone and everything.   I would give a lot to observe how his nature and his desire to save his brand are gumming up the works, or if he has accepted reality and is in fact urging his firstborn to take his medicine. 

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Scarlett45

Guidelines for the thread:

Charges have been made public that specifically name possession of Child Sexual Abuse Material, discussion of charges are allowed. However, discussion of victims, or possible victims (and their identities) related to these charges are NOT ALLOWED
We are not here to provide content for ghoulish rubbernecking- there is no need to discuss the graphic details related to these charges, the moderators are not going to police posts for graphic content- posts will be removed and violators will be warned. Do not attempt to circumvent this guideline with spoiler tags.

You MAY discuss the 2015 scandals, and any statement a NOW ADULT victim has made public as previously instructed, but speculation on unnamed victims or minor victims is NOT allowed. 

Jokes, asides, memes etc regarding the sexual assault of anyone, INCLUDING Josh Duggar are not allowed.

As of May 10, 2021: Please respect the privacy of the Reber family, discussion of their social media postings, public statements to the press/court testimony are acceptable. Discussion of their activities on their property, their schedule, where/how they run their errands not acceptable. Again, discussion of social media/court statements/public statements to the press- FINE, "So and So saw the Rebers standing in their yard/grocery shopping/getting gas"- NOT fine. 

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