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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

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1 minute ago, Tabbygirl521 said:

I had something similar  happen once on my work computer (!) )small company; apparently not too tech savvy), except thank god it was mainly adult nudes in icky poses and not kids! I had done a search for something with the word “baby” in it and clicked the wrong hit. Image after image after image opened and all I could do was power it down and freak out. 

You were lucky to not have had to see children's images like that and that you could power down and get out of there! There is lots of sick stuff on the internet, I just never thought I would have to see any of it, it was really scary to me, because women get charged for child porn too, not just men. I may have over-reacted by going to the police, but I just was so afraid and had no other idea what I should do. Not glad that you also had this experience, just glad that I found somebody else that understands that this really does happen! Thanks for sharing with me:)

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1 minute ago, Churchhoney said:

And yet the Duggars have always treated it as if it was simple.

Hit him hard a few times. Then tell his sisters to apologize to him and tell them to make sure they don't hold it against him in the future. Have him confess his sins in front of a group of people and pray a lot .... And it'll all be fine....And that'll be it. 

A fine combination of hitting and praying when you're dealing with such a complex and individual problem and living in a home where absolutely nutso concepts of sexuality, power, good and behavior, forgiveness and many more are being spouted as the golden truths of the universe day in and day out. 

With their way of operating, I think JB and M are quite lucky that they haven't several more horrible messed-up outcomes among their children. Human beings are complicated and the way they proceed doesn't take that into account -- and adds piles of near-insanity to the mix. 

 

If these charges against Josh are proven to be true, there was nothing JB & M could have done 15+ years ago that would have changed Josh's behavior. That's not how it works.

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12 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

The receiving part is VERY interesting.   I hate this part of the examination because the feds always want to know if they received it and how.  My point is that if it's ON your computer, had to receive it to possess it.  Their logic is that receipt means a clear path of possession.   So, it simple terms, this MIGHT indicate that they can prove HOW he got the images on his computer.  And that is a HUGE deal.  Because you don't have to put him behind the keyboard to show guilt.  Possession is easy, it's on the computer or cell phone or not. Receipt is much harder to prove.  So they very well may have a smoking gun.

Just guessing at this point.  Sorry to be posting so much.

Does that mean he was in contact with someone who sent him stuff instead of downloading pics from a website? And could that be how they were made aware of him?

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9 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Sadly, it wouldn't likely do much good. 

Maybe not but there’s ZERO chance of him altering his thinking in a way that reduces his risk until he is held accountable in a treatment program; one that doesn’t let him hide behind stuff like “Satan made me do it.”
 

Josh is now the adult version of an adolescent sex offender who went untreated. JB and Michelle failed him as a child and others have suffered the consequences ever since.

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1 minute ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Does that mean he was in contact with someone who sent him stuff instead of downloading pics from a website? And could that be how they were made aware of him?

I think it means they can prove it was him and he deliberately searched for the content and accessed it, and downloaded the content to his local pc.

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3 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Can TLC just drop the Duggars?  

TLC needs to drop this show unless the clan speaks openly and loudly against Josh Duggar's charges and not under the guise of forgiveness either. These charges in addition to previous sex abuse allegations are despicable and should not be swept aside while this family stays sweet. 

A poster mentioned earlier that Josh believes he is smarter than everyone else. I don't think so but he is obviously uneducated. I think he wants nothing to do with all this religious stuff but isn't man enough to say so. 

Anna better file for divorce before CPS starts throwing parenting classes and other requirements at her. If it were me, the attorney would already have served the papers. 

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7 minutes ago, Future Cat Lady said:

Does that mean he was in contact with someone who sent him stuff instead of downloading pics from a website? And could that be how they were made aware of him?

It could be email. That's the favorite method of the feds, as it's the easiest to show from who to whom.  It could be from a "click here for pics" link that was sent to him via some kind of communication.  Receipt basically shows it came from here, and went there via this method. 

 

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4 hours ago, Zella said:

For Josh, I do think growing up in an environment where sex was both flaunted and terribly stigmatized created some issues--and probably does for all of them in just that would be a weird mindfuck to deal with. 

But the reason I was reluctant to just assume his molestations were crimes of opportunity was the fact his attacks on his sisters got increasingly brazen and severe and also the ages of the victims got younger and younger. That's always seemed very damning to me. And I think deep down the Duggars know that because they always lied in public statements to avoid addressing the latter instances. 

I stopped watching their show after his last disturbing incidents. But the thing I do remember from back then was in an article I read, and JB said that they were very lucky because Josh was a few months too young so he couldn't be labeled as a pedophile! Too bad he hadn't been old enough back then because maybe, just maybe, (doubtful, I know) these last incidents would never have happened.

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Pedo's and molesters can't be changed.    There is no treatment that works.   The only way they never hurt another child is if they're never around them.   

Years ago, I lived in NM, during the first wave of priest pedophilia and sex abuse cases, and there was a center only for priests for psychiatric, and addiction treatment.   The psychiatrist who headed the center said the only ones who didn't reoffend were never around children or their chosen victims again.   The ones who went back to parish work, or other places that gave access to vulnerable people, always reoffended.   

 

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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4 minutes ago, Kiss my mutt said:

I doubt Josh can be rehabilitated at this point. 

Probably not, but it's possible he could have been if someone intervened with real help when he was a teen. Sadly, we'll never know and now here we are. 

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4 hours ago, beckie said:

I doubt there was one or two. That could be accidental.  It's more likely there were 100s or thousands on his computers. 

I can't imagine this arrest and charge for one or two photos. It suggests Josh had an addiction to child pornography and would have--as you say--gathered 100s at least. 

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1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I agree. Anna is a weak reed. She's not going anywhere. She'll stupidly stand by her man and be there when he's released from prison.

Maybe Anna will end up on reality TV again--Life After Lockup. 

If JB doesn't take care of Anna+ 7, I don't know who will. Anna should start negotiating with JB now for housing and lifetime financial support. She does have a story to tell, and JB would rather not have any more publicity. 

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4 hours ago, BitterApple said:

It should, especially Joy, who regularly posts pictures of her daughter unclothed.

After my incident with hundreds of child porn on my computer that time, I have never, ever posted a picture of any of my 8 grandkids, and I never, ever will! Way too many sickos out in the world. I just can't believe there are so many of them.

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3 minutes ago, mittsigirl said:

After my incident with hundreds of child porn on my computer that time, I have never, ever posted a picture of any of my 8 grandkids, and I never, ever will! Way too many sickos out in the world. I just can't believe there are so many of them.

How can they truly not realize this?

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3 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I thought I'd take a moment and review some of the wonderful men JimBob and Michelle Duggar have allowed close access to their children: (Trigger warning for those of whom sex crimes is a sensitive subject). 

Josh Duggar: sexual assault of five minors, possession of child pornography 

Caleb Williams: sexual assault of minor between ages of 13-17, impregnated his victim, current Registered Sex Offender 

Tim Robertson: Convicted of rape after sodomizing an incapacitated woman, former Registered Sex Offender 

Bill Gothard: accused by over 30 women (including minors) of molestation, harassment and assault

But Jill can't be at the TTH without Boob's permission......

Sad as it is, Josh isn't even an anomaly in this crowd.

 

 

That list...

Jesus take the fucking wheel.

Where's the puke emoji when you need it?

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I kind of tend to think an attraction to child can't be cured, however, I also know not doing anything real like therapy to try in 2002/2003 as JB and M did was absolutely the wrong thing. So was enabling a superiority complex Josh has and asserting he's dominant as a man and all that. Once you find out someone preys on the younger/weak, you don't still tell them other people should submit to you etc. 

 

I don't think the family is stupid business wise, could it be in their contract with TLC now they can't be fired for something Josh does as long as they weren't at fault too? 

Edited by Gigi43
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2 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

How can they truly not realize this?

People always think it will never happen to them-until it does!

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7 minutes ago, BradandJanet said:

If JB doesn't take care of Anna+ 7, I don't know who will. Anna should start negotiating with JB now for housing and lifetime financial support. She does have a story to tell, and JB would rather not have any more publicity. 

i think it is covered - again she lives in the warehouse and has been set up with 5 llcs at the TTH address

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I hope people are being watched carefully.  This type of thing can trigger self harm attempts. Not just Josh, but other family members who are so distraught.  

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41 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If these charges against Josh are proven to be true, there was nothing JB & M could have done 15+ years ago that would have changed Josh's behavior. That's not how it works.

That’s not entirely accurate. Sex offender treatment programs have been shown to lower the rate of recidivism quite a bit. There’s no way to tell if a program would have worked in Josh’s case, of course, but it would have had a better chance of working than what they did do. 

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I’ve always been slow to denigrate Josh due to his young age when the earlier events occurred. Minors are held to a different degree of responsibility for a reason.  But, I now fear that there were deep rooted issues that surpassed youthful indiscretions.  The adult acts are held to a different standard.  I suspect the future is much more dire than any of them ever anticipated.  I now fear the bad news has just started.

Edited by SunnyBeBe
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3 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

My quote disappeared but the comment I was replying to mentioned Josh thinking the world owes him, which perfectly mirrors his smugshot.  He’s been told his entire life that he is the Golden Boy, to the point where his stupid parents swept his “curiosity” involving his sisters under the rug.  I’m sure he still thinks that Daddy can fix this.  Why wouldn’t he?  He’s done it before.
 

What I keep going back to is the fact that Anna, in her own brainwashed state of mind, has to explain to six children about where Daddy went.  I feel so incredibly bad for those kids, whose lives will never be the same after today.

Edited by laurakaye
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Two items, I put them behind a spoiler in case you are sick of seeing his face. 

Video of the sketch artist showing Josh in court this morning and video from when he was booked yesterday. 

Spoiler

 

 

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Not to long ago I read something like this.  Without an enabler the enabled can't!

It kind of makes sense to me.  My friends son is an alcoholic that lives in his mothers basement.  One time his sister took over and he cleaned up his act!  No more basement so he had to get a job.

Why would Jim Bob continue to enable Josh?  Josh has showed us who he is but Jim Bob continued to provide housing, financial support and now three attorneys.  If he had to work for a living maybe he wouldn't be sitting in jail under indictment!

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I hope this comment is allowed. I think it’s likely that CPS will do forensic interviews on some/possibly any minors Josh had been in regular contact with. 

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8 minutes ago, christine falls said:

Two items, I put them behind a spoiler in case you are sick of seeing his face. 

Video of the sketch artist showing Josh in court this morning and video from when he was booked yesterday. 

  Reveal spoiler

 

 

Benzodiazepine much?? I don't think he's high on marijuana; I think that's flat out sedatives and disassociation.

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18 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Not to long ago I read something like this.  Without an enabler the enabled can't!

It kind of makes sense to me.  My friends son is an alcoholic that lives in his mothers basement.  One time his sister took over and he cleaned up his act!  No more basement so he had to get a job.

Why would Jim Bob continue to enable Josh?  Josh has showed us who he is but Jim Bob continued to provide housing, financial support and now three attorneys.  If he had to work for a living maybe he wouldn't be sitting in jail under indictment!

 

I don't think his employment has anything to do with it. Plenty of working people look at CP. In Josh's case his issues showed at a young age and were covered up. The support could be because they covered for him all those years ago in the name of getting on TV and having their image/status. I don't know if Josh ever wanted to do things like work on the FRC but JB and Michelle wanted their son too. We don't really know if anything's ever happened to Josh. I can see where that life could mess up someone mentally. Also I would imagine Josh knows about any shady dealings of JB and the worst secrets the cult has, should be cut off he could talk (purely speculation.) It would be something if Josh's defense was to blow up JB and M in the name of trying to get sympathy especially if they were to turn their backs on him. When you create a monster, don't be shocked if it attacks.  Anna will definitely be supported to prevent her from writing a tell-all, unless it's a  tell-all JB could get a piece of. 

Edited by Gigi43
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5 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

 

I don't think his employment has anything to do with it. Plenty of working people look at CP. In Josh's case his issues showed at a young age and were ignored. The support could be because they covered for him all those years ago in the name of getting on TV and having their image/status. I don't know if Josh ever wanted to do things like work on the FRC but JB and Michelle wanted their son too. We don't really know if anything's ever happened to Josh. I can see where that life could mess up someone mentally. Also I would imagine Josh knows about any shady dealings of JB and the worst secrets the cult has, should be cut off he could talk (purely speculation.) It would be something if Josh's defense was to blow up JB and M in the name of trying to get sympathy especially if they were to turn their backs on him. When you create a monster, don't be shocked if it attacks.  Anna will definitely be supported to prevent her from writing a tell-all, unless it's a  tell-all JB could get a piece of. 

Yes they are all in this together!  You made me think of this!

"Oh what tangled webs  we weave when at first we do deceive!"

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15 minutes ago, Jeanne222 said:

Not to long ago I read something like this.  Without an enabler the enabled can't!

It kind of makes sense to me.  My friends son is an alcoholic that lives in his mothers basement.  One time his sister took over and he cleaned up his act!  No more basement so he had to get a job.

Why would Jim Bob continue to enable Josh?  Josh has showed us who he is but Jim Bob continued to provide housing, financial support and now three attorneys.  If he had to work for a living maybe he wouldn't be sitting in jail under indictment!

JB had to continue to enable Josh in order to guarantee that he retained his control.   I think in his mind Josh left to his own devices would damage the Duggar brand, whereas if JB took control of the situation he could minimize, sweep it under the rug and then keep Josh on a chain and voila, it would all be as if it never happened.  

I would dearly love to know the answer to this question for JB -- if you could do it all over again, would you handle any of your responses to Josh's disgusting behavior differently?  If so, what would you handle differently, how and why?

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Bottom line for me - TLC needs to cancel them NOW.  I'm sorry (not sorry) that the innocent ones (the ones who have nothing to do with this) will take a financial hit, but this story is just flat out too unseemly.  Too disgusting. And who would want to sponsor the show now?  Even if Josh and Anna are never, ever seen on the show again, how could the rest of them go on their merry way and act like life is normal. 

This didn't come out of nowhere.  Josh has a history. I get that he is part of their family, but if they don't publicly condemn him (assuming he is declared guilty) then they are part of it.  The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach.

Besides all that, the show has gotten really boring anyway. TLC has plenty of other multiple families that they can focus on if that's what they want to do.

 

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1 hour ago, mittsigirl said:

You were lucky to not have had to see children's images like that and that you could power down and get out of there! There is lots of sick stuff on the internet, I just never thought I would have to see any of it, it was really scary to me, because women get charged for child porn too, not just men. I may have over-reacted by going to the police, but I just was so afraid and had no other idea what I should do. Not glad that you also had this experience, just glad that I found somebody else that understands that this really does happen! Thanks for sharing with me:)

I think going to the police was a great idea! Not sure I would have thought of it on my own - I just let my manager know. That perhaps was not enough.

I’m so sorry you saw what you saw. It’s incomprehensible how anyone can want or excuse such horror. I know we don’t know exactly what’s going on with Josh but for sure it’s terrible. 

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I think it's even worse in JB & M's case.   They do not value women, or girls except as baby making machines.    They value their sons, and don't care about what happened to girls and women.   

Look at how he was treated after the last scandal, (The website , and cheating) when nothing happened to him.   I'm just hoping he was only downloading, and not producing CP.     I don't think anyone in the family will ever come out and say he did anything wrong, or they'll be exiled.    

Edited by CrazyInAlabama
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Random thoughts in no particular order

If Josh is required to have third party supervision to get bail..the third party should not be a Duggar or anyone connected to their church or Gothards  organization. Why?  Because Josh has had ‘ accountability partners’ since he was a small child.  They didn’t hold him very accountable.  This is not snark/ it’s my honest opinion.   

Anna has probably known about this since relatively shortly after the raid in 2019.  I’m sure they received legal advice that caused them to put everything in her name.  Yet she got pregnant yet again.  Who among us would let that happen in this situation? She is just so naive and utterly brainwashed that Josh and JB are to be followed no matter what, 

I think the best thing that could happen to  Josh’s siblings and children is for the show to go off the air.  They need to get real jobs, live in the real world, process their feelings about Josh and their parents and get therapy.  That doesn’t mean they will come out of this unscathed.  There will be failures, divorces, crises of faith and  some siblings will leave never to return. 
 

John, Joy and Joe are going to have some crises of faith for sure. 

Edited by mythoughtis
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47 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

I don't know if Josh ever wanted to do things like work on the FRC but JB and Michelle wanted their son too.

It has been ages since I saw the show where he got the job at the FRC, but I got the impression that JB was not happy about it, and he was not happy that Josh was moving to DC.   At the time, I thought it was good that Josh was breaking free of his parents.   Well, we know how that turned out.

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7 minutes ago, Twopper said:

It has been ages since I saw the show where he got the job at the FRC, but I got the impression that JB was not happy about it, and he was not happy that Josh was moving to DC.   At the time, I thought it was good that Josh was breaking free of his parents.   Well, we know how that turned out.

 

I thought JB wanted the boys in government and FRC is close to it. I actually thought it was a mission statement of the cult to get the members of positions of power to make their culty ways laws. Maybe JB rightfully didn't trust Josh in DC? I could be mistaken, but I had thought they wanted Josh doing that kind of stuff.

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7 minutes ago, Twopper said:

It has been ages since I saw the show where he got the job at the FRC, but I got the impression that JB was not happy about it, and he was not happy that Josh was moving to DC.   At the time, I thought it was good that Josh was breaking free of his parents.   Well, we know how that turned out.

Does make me wonder if JB wasn’t concerned about what Josh might get up to with no supervision...

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42 minutes ago, lookeyloo said:

No, haven't heard of her. But I've read a lot of very very similar stories. All these kids were brought up in an unbelievable sick world that somehow convinces most of them that it's the best of all possible environments. 

Thanks very much for posting this. Good to have this view of Gothardism on display when we normally swim in Duggar/TLC whitewashing. 

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4 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

 

I thought JB wanted the boys in government and FRC is close to it. I actually thought it was a mission statement of the cult to get the members of positions of power to make their culty ways laws. Maybe JB rightfully didn't trust Josh in DC? I could be mistaken, but I had thought they wanted Josh doing that kind of stuff.

I think he wanted power and control, but was afraid that FRC would out the little molestation secret.

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JB and M are totally awful, ridiculous people but I'm hesitant blaming this on them. I think Josh is just a bad seed. 

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Scarlett45

Guidelines for the thread:

Charges have been made public that specifically name possession of Child Sexual Abuse Material, discussion of charges are allowed. However, discussion of victims, or possible victims (and their identities) related to these charges are NOT ALLOWED
We are not here to provide content for ghoulish rubbernecking- there is no need to discuss the graphic details related to these charges, the moderators are not going to police posts for graphic content- posts will be removed and violators will be warned. Do not attempt to circumvent this guideline with spoiler tags.

You MAY discuss the 2015 scandals, and any statement a NOW ADULT victim has made public as previously instructed, but speculation on unnamed victims or minor victims is NOT allowed. 

Jokes, asides, memes etc regarding the sexual assault of anyone, INCLUDING Josh Duggar are not allowed.

As of May 10, 2021: Please respect the privacy of the Reber family, discussion of their social media postings, public statements to the press/court testimony are acceptable. Discussion of their activities on their property, their schedule, where/how they run their errands not acceptable. Again, discussion of social media/court statements/public statements to the press- FINE, "So and So saw the Rebers standing in their yard/grocery shopping/getting gas"- NOT fine. 

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