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Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

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33 minutes ago, Madtown said:

When Mr.Madtown had one about 20 years ago, we both had to have a meeting with the doctor beforehand and we both had to answer whether we were sure that I didn't want children(we have none and planned that). I was asked again for myself if this is what I wanted. I also had to sign papers. Like you said, not sure what the rules are today.

I had my tubes tied decades ago and yes there was a meeting, paperwork, and even a waiting period!  Thank goodness that's all gone out the window.  

14 minutes ago, scriggle said:

There's no legal requirement for spousal consent for a vasectomy or tubal ligation. However private practices can have their own policies. That being said, Josh could always sneak off to *gasp* Planned Parenthood. I doubt they have a spousal consent policy.

Private practices still have to follow patient confidentiality laws though. 

Now that would be something wouldn't it?  After the Duggar attitude, I'd love for one of the offspring to use any of their services, but Josh would be my first choice.

Edited by Absolom
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Honestly, I don't think it matters to Josh any more. He wanted to have a smaller family when he was a young man with hopes for his future. He wanted to have his own life, and his own career, and his own home. He wanted to go to college and law school and was probably expecting to put his children through college.

He has no future now. He's back at the TTH for good. He won't be going to college. His kids won't be going to college. The only thing he can do to improve his standing at the TTH is to have more kids, and Anna wants to have more kids, so they'll have more kids.

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I don't remember having to sign any papers or even having to meet with the doctor when my husband went to get his done about 7 years ago.  I was there with him for the initial meeting just because I could go and wanted to know about the recovery time and figuring out when was best to schedule for babysitters (and yeah he could have done all of that but being honest I am the planner and keeper of schedules in this house so it's just easier if I am hearing it first hand).  But I don't remember it being a big thing they dr was like ok this is what I have available.  Now maybe because he knew we had 3 kids already, but there wasn't any waiting period or papers to sign on my part.

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Here's how we know for sure that there are no laws on the books anywhere in the U.S.  that ever required spousal consent for vasectomies .... and that all these consent forms came out of the medical profession and its lawyers....as an attempt to head off angry lawsuits from pissed-off wives and maybe from feminists seeking equal treatment of men and women and so on -- 

Legislators across the country have been overwhelmingly male forever and ever.

And a bunch of men would never have even written a bill requiring that men get their wives' consent for something they wanted to do with their sexual organs, let alone passed any such laws.

I'm pretty sure that even male legislators who believe in a quiverfull patriarchy probably wouldn't introduce such legislation -- because even they would be loath to make any man get his wife's written permission for anything. 

(Not so for situations in which the sexes are reversed, of course.)

I don't think Josh cares any more, though. I agree that this is now his only way to continually please JB and M......

I'm appalled that those two can be so wrapped up in their own personal heavenly rewards for having offspring as numerous as the stars that they're utterly unconcerned about the long-term futures of said offspring. But I guess I'm not surprised by it either. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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1 hour ago, cmr2014 said:

Honestly, I don't think it matters to Josh any more. He wanted to have a smaller family when he was a young man with hopes for his future. He wanted to have his own life, and his own career, and his own home. He wanted to go to college and law school and was probably expecting to put his children through college.

He has no future now. He's back at the TTH for good. He won't be going to college. His kids won't be going to college. The only thing he can do to improve his standing at the TTH is to have more kids, and Anna wants to have more kids, so they'll have more kids.

Damn that’s depressing 

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1 hour ago, TigerLily20 said:

I don't remember having to sign any papers or even having to meet with the doctor when my husband went to get his done about 7 years ago.  I was there with him for the initial meeting just because I could go and wanted to know about the recovery time and figuring out when was best to schedule for babysitters (and yeah he could have done all of that but being honest I am the planner and keeper of schedules in this house so it's just easier if I am hearing it first hand).  But I don't remember it being a big thing they dr was like ok this is what I have available.  Now maybe because he knew we had 3 kids already, but there wasn't any waiting period or papers to sign on my part.

My husband did his five years ago, and our experience was similar to what you described. I was there for all of the appointments because my husband has a terrible memory for anything outside of his field, but no one asked for my consent. I did get to stay in the room with him during the procedure, though.

I doubt Josh would go that route, though. I have Josiah pegged as the one who would secretly get a vasectomy, only because I think he adores his daughter and wouldn't want Lauren to constantly be pregnant (or suffering miscarriages) and detract from time with Bella.

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2 hours ago, cmr2014 said:

 

He has no future now. He's back at the TTH for good. He won't be going to college. His kids won't be going to college. The only thing he can do to improve his standing at the TTH is to have more kids, and Anna wants to have more kids, so they'll have more kids.

It's his own damn fault. 

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5 hours ago, QuinnInND said:

And to my knowledge, unless he goes to some Dr who would do it on the sly, he couldn't get snipped without Anna's knowledge, because she'd have to sign a paper acknowledging that she knows he's getting snipped. 

He could say he wasn’t married, or forge her signature. I’m not even sure if such a note is still required. It’s his body, after all.

Edited by DangerousMinds
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I think Josh is too lazy and too full of himself to get snipped. He probably thinks if they need to stop having children it should be Anna who has to do something to her body, not him. I can also picture him being a wuss who is scared of needles or the doctor or the procedure in general. Something I wouldn't normally make fun of someone for, but it's Josh so...

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48 minutes ago, Rabbittron said:

It's his own damn fault. 

I'm not going to defend Josh's actions, but

If his parents had treated the abuse like a serious issue, it would have been handled through the Juvenile Court and the records would have been sealed.

If his parents hadn't insisted upon being aggressive about their bigotry and lobbied against LGBTQ rights, they would never have angered the person who outed them and Josh would still be at the FRC. The FRC is bursting at the seams with hypocrites and assholes who cheat on their wives. The Ashley Madison thing would have been a blip on the radar if it was even noticed at all.

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9 hours ago, TigerLily20 said:

I don't remember having to sign any papers or even having to meet with the doctor when my husband went to get his done about 7 years ago.  I was there with him for the initial meeting just because I could go and wanted to know about the recovery time and figuring out when was best to schedule for babysitters (and yeah he could have done all of that but being honest I am the planner and keeper of schedules in this house so it's just easier if I am hearing it first hand).  But I don't remember it being a big thing they dr was like ok this is what I have available.  Now maybe because he knew we had 3 kids already, but there wasn't any waiting period or papers to sign on my part.

Years and years ago, before my time, many hospitals required the spouse' signature prior to doing a tubal ligation or vasectomy.  However, by the time I was a resident, in 1982, it was an anachronism, I remember seeing the forms in a drawer at the hospital and those of us present laughing about how ridiculous it was.  I don't believe spousal consent was ever a legal requirement, just a social custom from back in the days when husbands had to 'allow' their wives to work, gave them an allowance and generally were in charge of every aspect of the wife's life.

Some doctors might have a waiting period before performing a tubal ligation, but, generally, it is an insurance issue.  If you are on Medicaid, including any of the Medicaid HMO's, the federal government requires you sign a special government consent at least 30 days and no more than 180 days before the tubal is performed.  In that instance, the consent states in bold letters that the procedure is permanent and not reversible.  I believe this language stems from unscrupulous doctors and others who strongly encouraged/coerced poor women into getting their tubes tied.  If you've got private insurance, there is no waiting period, although, these days especially, it would be hard to get the procedure scheduled in less than 30 days ever.

Edited by doodlebug
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4 hours ago, Boston said:

Just saying.. These fundies make me sick. The poor children.. JUST STOP SMUGGARS

invisiblecondom.jpg

invisiblecondom.jpg

 They should really call the Holy Spirit condoms. So that the spouses can get filled with the Holy Spirit.

Quote

any overgrown field

 Seems like an overgrown field is the perfect metaphor for their mega breeding strategy. Does anyone remember Michelle‘s old comment about there never being too many flowers? 

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9 hours ago, JoanArc said:

Does anyone remember Michelle‘s old comment about there never being too many flowers?

As a gardener- yes there are times there are too many flowers, Michelle, you idiot. They crowd together and then their growth is affected. Guess that point would sail over her head also.

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10 hours ago, JoanArc said:

 They should really call the Holy Spirit condoms. So that the spouses can get filled with the Holy Spirit.

 Seems like an overgrown field is the perfect metaphor for their mega breeding strategy. Does anyone remember Michelle‘s old comment about there never being too many flowers? 

Was that in response to Jessa whining about one of Ben's love letters?

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5 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Was that in response to Jessa whining about one of Ben's love letters?

I don't think so - I think it was more of a general comment on being Quiverfull. 

In my opinion, you can never have too many flowers from the perspective of the person admiring the flowers, because they may be aesthetically pleasing, but you can have too many flowers from the perspective of the flowers - if they are all competing for water, sunlight, and the like. I think this is not too far off from how Michelle views the kids.

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On 4/24/2021 at 11:34 AM, Churchhoney said:

 Also doubt that many -- or any -- of the Duggarlings and adjacents of Generation Two will be of much use when it comes to providing cash and go-fer employment to the Duggarlings and adjacents of upcoming Generation Three.

And since Generation Two has been largely dependent for all their livelihoods on getting these services from JB and his various connections, from the fast-dwindling Gothard empire and elsewhere -- together with random moneys gathered together because of TeeVee fame -- that will likely leave Generation Three pretty screwed. Not a great outlook for the babies they love announcing. 

Those babies won't be famous.

And making a decent living after you've been really poorly homeschooled and brainwashed to disdain any other education and training depends on having some close contacts who are able to supply you with a paycheck. Hard for me to imagine Joshley (or most of his siblings) having significant connections that can or will be doing this for this upcoming crowd either....

I cannot over look the fact that this also opens the door for JB being remembered as having been a father who could provide for his very large brood against all odds or some such nonsense like that.   IMO whether it's consciously or not, JB's actions have stacked the deck to ensure that his legacy will loom large, at least in family lore, for generations to come.   

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1 hour ago, dariafan said:

NOoooooooooo! Of all the things I wanted this group to not be right on 

Eh there is still time for the bottom to fall out :  Bad investments, Joshly behaving badly again, etc. Then we can all try to shut down the JimBlob praise.

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Why is anyone surprised? She will continue to have one every two years until her fertility drops or her uterus falls out, whichever comes first. Remember...she suffers from "baby fever".   I bet she will have 13 or 14 total. And be smug about it.

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I honestly think she's under the delusion that she will be Michelle 2.0 and they will become more famous and rich because she had so many blessings.  The harsh reality is that there is virtually no way to escape from her husband's tarnished past.  I actually feel sorry for her in this respect.  All she can hope for is that one or more of her kids is able to make a decent living and someday take her away from the toxic TTH and her unstable husband. Time will tell.

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As long as they behave Jim will leave them an inheritance. If they speak up/misbehave, the $ train is over. 
 

Time to leave was a few kids ago. Guess Anna will be a Duggar forever.

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20 minutes ago, iwantcookies said:

As long as they behave Jim will leave them an inheritance. If they speak up/misbehave, the $ train is over. 
 

Time to leave was a few kids ago. Guess Anna will be a Duggar forever.

What inheritance? The guys is in his 50s. I doubt they'll be any money left, or certainly not much. With 19 kids, not much, doesn't go very far.

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15 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

What inheritance? The guys is in his 50s. I doubt they'll be any money left, or certainly not much. With 19 kids, not much, doesn't go very far.

Even JB's powers of grift and swindle are dwarfed in relation to 19 children with exponentially accruing grandchildren.

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3 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

What inheritance? The guys is in his 50s. I doubt they'll be any money left, or certainly not much. With 19 kids, not much, doesn't go very far.

Are you Jim’s accountant? You don’t know how much $ he has. Or what each kid will inherit. 
I am  just excited that Josh will have another mouth to feed... 

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10 hours ago, dariafan said:

NOoooooooooo! Of all the things I wanted this group to not be right on 

 I guess Jim Bob never considers that he’s being set up for a very large fall by God, despite God doing just that to a few dozen people in the Bible.

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If I remember correctly, Michelle's 'too many flowers' comment was directed at people's opinions that she was having too many children. She viewed her children as 'flowers' and said how can you have too many flowers?  Strange from a woman who asked for a heart for children and never got it. 

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2 hours ago, iwantcookies said:

Wonder if Ma and Pa Keller have a backyard  for a bus for Anna/Josh to live in. 
 

 

Pffft as if! JoshUA and what'sername live in a perfectly fine Duggar warehouse with no windows thankyouverymuch. It even has a fireplace.

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28 minutes ago, Chicklet said:

Pffft as if! JoshUA and what'sername live in a perfectly fine Duggar warehouse with no windows thankyouverymuch. It even has a fireplace.

a fireplace that doubles as storage for their large tv screen.

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4 minutes ago, crazy8s said:

a fireplace that doubles as storage for their large tv screen.

They are so fancy.

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On 4/26/2021 at 9:18 AM, madpsych78 said:

I don't think so - I think it was more of a general comment on being Quiverfull. 

In my opinion, you can never have too many flowers from the perspective of the person admiring the flowers, because they may be aesthetically pleasing, but you can have too many flowers from the perspective of the flowers - if they are all competing for water, sunlight, and the like. I think this is not too far off from how Michelle views the kids.

Of course, understanding that would require imagination, empathy and logic. All traits studiously ignored, and to some degree even disdained, by the Duggar Machine, I think. 

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On 4/26/2021 at 6:00 PM, GeeGolly said:

For sure I'm not JB's accountant, nor do I know what he has in the bank. But I do know what it takes to support a family much, much smaller than the Duggar family. He still has 10 kids that live at home and no one seems to be pinching pennies. JB also has some 30+ more years of living to do.

Like I said, I doubt they'll be much or any money left when JB & M are gone.

 

And none of his own kids has the level of education, training, work experience, or community connections that can help them make a really good living (even for one family, let alone for a compound of multi-child families), beyond the money that JB primarily generates....

....and ditto for the Gen Two Duggarlings being able to offer enough well-paying jobs to the up-and-coming Gen Three crop....who'll be just as isolated, inexperienced and inadequately educated and trained as the current generation....

...and they're not going to get many jobs from their main family connections, which tend to be Gothard-y types...While some of those families seem to have pretty solid businesses, I doubt many are businesses that can easily scale to provide employment for their own kids plus a bunch of Duggars....,,,and why would they even try? 

And they won't have any girls or women bringing in paychecks from coffee bars or whatever, at least until JB and M aren't alive and able to rewrite their wills any longer. Stay-at-home females are part of their theology and, at least for Jim Bob, I expect, a big part of his pride. 

It's awfully hard to make enough money to support an exponentially expanding group of people when hardly any of them develop the wherewithal to bring in some substantial cash too. 

Edited by Churchhoney
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Anna sure told them didn't she? And in the vaguest way meaning "Jim Bob supports my family and Josh and I just procreate for Jesus".

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I wonder how much the kids who work for JB actually make a year at those jobs, as opposed to the money (or houses, etc.) he likely gives them from the show. Not enough to raise their ever expanding broods of kids. With the exception of the real estate holdings, do any of their businesses actually turn a respectable profit?  

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The Duggar family is a pyramid scheme. They will need to bring in spouses with money to keep it going, and that doesn't seem to be happening. JB and Michelle are sitting pretty at the top, the kids will get something (except for Jill), and the grandkids and beyond are sunk. 

So far, only the Dillard kids have a chance. Their father will be employed outside the family, and the children will receive an education. 

As for Josh and Anna. Anna wants lots of children, but Josh wanted only two. Anna is getting her way. Maybe it's payback for what Josh did to her. It's sad for the 16 future Joshlets. No education, no money, no TV show, no Jim Bob. 

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On 4/25/2021 at 9:44 AM, Albanyguy said:

And ever since his fall from grace, Josh has virtually been under house arrest. Jim Bob and Michelle may have relaxed their idiotic rules somewhat for the other children, but I don't believe Josh is ever allowed to set foot outside the compound without Jim Bob knowing exactly where 's going and without a accountability partner, one that JB would absolutely trust to never let Josh out of sight. Even Anna (who knows which side her bread is buttered on) would rat Josh out to his father in a heartbeat if she thought he was even contemplating something like a vasectomy.

I agree. 

 

On 4/26/2021 at 12:36 PM, drafan said:

Why is anyone surprised? She will continue to have one every two years until her fertility drops or her uterus falls out, whichever comes first. Remember...she suffers from "baby fever".   I bet she will have 13 or 14 total. And be smug about it.

I am not surprised. Anna has had a child every odd numbered year since she has been married, and she married at 20. Unless something happens medically to prevent it, I see her having her last child in her early 40s.

 

Does anyone know when she is due?

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9 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I agree. 

 

I am not surprised. Anna has had a child every odd numbered year since she has been married, and she married at 20. Unless something happens medically to prevent it, I see her having her last child in her early 40s.

 

Does anyone know when she is due?

She said “fall” but I think it’s probably Septemberish. 

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1 hour ago, Churchhoney said:

Alternate title: Pregnant Anna Duggar Lies for the Correct Jesus 

Someone ask her why the carlot folded less than a week after the homeland security visit.

Some one ask her what Josh actually DOES.

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3 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Anna has had a child every odd numbered year since she has been married, and she married at 20. Unless something happens medically to prevent it, I see her having her last child in her early 40s.

As long as Michelle is still alive, Anna will stop at 18 kids. She wouldn't dare piss off the Queen Mother by matching or topping her record.

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3 hours ago, Albanyguy said:

As long as Michelle is still alive, Anna will stop at 18 kids. She wouldn't dare piss off the Queen Mother by matching or topping her record.

Anna will be 33 years old in June (born in 1988 like Josh), assuming she keeps up the odd numbered years for a bit more, I see her having 10 kids by age 40, and one or two more before she becomes peri-menopausal (spelling). I do not see more than 12/14 in her future just based on the number of years she has left in her reproductive life span. But I do think she would love to get the praise Michelle received for having a large family. 

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2 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Anna will be 33 years old in June (born in 1988 like Josh), assuming she keeps up the old numbered years for a bit more, I see her having 10 kids by age 40, and one or two more before she becomes peri-menopausal (spelling). I do not see more than 12/14 in her future just based on the number of years she has left in her reproductive life span. But I do think she would love to get the praise Michelle received for having a large family. 

Are Anna and Esther the only Kellers with ridiculous amounts of kids? I know Pris is at five, but she's older than Anna and unlikely to hit double digit numbers. The others seem to have typically sized families.

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Scarlett45

Guidelines for the thread:

As of 12/9/2021 Josh Duggar has been found guilty of possession of Child Sexual Abuse Material, discussion of charges/verdict/trial is allowed.

However, discussion of victims, or possible victims (and their identities) related to these charges are NOT ALLOWED
We are not here to provide content for ghoulish rubbernecking- there is no need to discuss the graphic details related to these charges, the moderators are not going to police posts for graphic content- posts will be removed and violators will be warned. Do not attempt to circumvent this guideline with spoiler tags.

You MAY discuss the 2015 scandals, and any statement a NOW ADULT victim has made public as previously instructed, but speculation on unnamed victims or minor victims is NOT allowed. 

Jokes, asides, memes etc regarding the sexual assault of anyone, INCLUDING Josh Duggar are not allowed.

Discussion of Jim Bob's political campaign is not allowed. 

As of May 10, 2021: Please respect the privacy of the Reber family, discussion of their social media postings, public statements to the press/court testimony are acceptable. Discussion of their activities on their property, their schedule, where/how they run their errands not acceptable. Again, discussion of social media/court statements/public statements to the press- FINE, "So and So saw the Rebers standing in their yard/grocery shopping/getting gas"- NOT fine. 

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