Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Sew Sumi]

I'm inclined to think that gossip is attached to Toby Willis. He's Smuggar sleaze x1000.

[Adeejay]

Take anything you read in the Daily Mail with a grain of salt. 

[kokapetl]

I think Jimbob would reach an arrangement with Anna where she wouldn't divorce Josh, but she also wouldn't have to live with him. A sham marriage. 

[cdp73]

1 hour ago, sometimesy said:

Didn't JB work some shell game magic with Anna and Josh's house to keep them safe from lawsuits. I'm not sure, but wouldn't that hurt Anna trying to get her share of the assets from the marriage? We know JB can claim to pay Josh as little as possible to avoid alimony or child support in an effort to get Anna to leave the kids in the cult.

If Anna was only able to realize that she knows where the skeletons are buried, I'm sure she could get a more than fair share from JB.  The only thing he works hard at is hiding his family's secrets, so knowing that she can write a tell-all that would sell well, he'd rather pay her off than lose the TV deal.

OTOH, if Anna did divorce Josh, that would finally give TLC something new to show.

[sometimesy]

New Show-Anna On Her Own

She can get TLC $  and keep quite about what she knows...for the right price JB.  After all these years, it would be balanced for TLC to show what happens when the cult fails.

[Absolom]

Basically, call me when they print the divorce filing.....

[GeeGolly]

It's easy for all of us to be disgusted with Josh, but Anna does not have the same perspective that we do. She did or does love Josh, she has children with Josh and she has been indoctrinated with the cult mindset her whole life. Add to that all the reasons that @Churchhoney mentioned and it's hard to see why she would leave.

Also, in my line of work I have seen many a family member step up and help, however a lot of the time the support fades away. I've had clients that have relocated to other states and even countries, and then left high and dry by their 'supportive' friends and family who have their own lives to manage and never fully thought through what helping someone who is starting over entails.

I feel sorry for Anna and anyone who is in a similar position.

[Marigold]

I think Anna is feeling worse now than when the scandals hit.

Josh 2008 did NOT come home from Pray Camp and the reality of her situation has just slammed her in the head. She is stuck with Perv Josh, who is a molester, scumbag and vile man. The entire world knows it too. 

When the scandals all broke on the news, she was in shock and numb.  She put all her faith in the Pray Camp working and Josh would be a "new creature" when he came home (Bible reference there!).  Her sweet Joshie of 2008 would return, all fixed up.

It's 2016 and she is in worse shape now than ever.

I think she will leave Josh eventually. Who knows?  Anna might be far more shrewd than we realize. I assume she is a cult member who is pretty clueless and sheltered.  Anna might be playing a good game of cash with Jim Bob.

Anna has a smart phone.  Smart phones are a ticket to the real world, opportunities and new ideas.  Even contact with Christians who are not in such a repressive religion! 

Who knows what the hell Anna has been googling and reading up on?   She might have a plan to leave at a certain time, when she can get her foot on Jim Bob's throat. I doubt it but there have been many, many women who have left oppressive situations when no one expected it. 

I hope she is able to find a better life for herself and the kids. I realize she was smug when she was younger but I bet she has a whole new perspective on things now. Hopefully Anna is growing and changing for the better. 

[BitterApple]

32 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

 

Also, in my line of work I have seen many a family member step up and help, however a lot of the time the support fades away. 

That's a good point. It's not like Anna would be showing up on her brother's doorstep with just one kid in tow. She'd be adding five people to her sibling's household, upping the overhead significantly. In addition, I don't know what she could realistically expect in terms of spousal and child support. She's married to Josh, not money-bags Boob. She'd need some sort of long-range plan in terms of work or school, and I don't think she has any interest in that. 

Edited November 2, 2016 by BitterApple

[cdp73]

Anna leaving Josh would be the equivalent of Katie Holmes getting away from the clams unscathed.

[RazzleberryPie]

Anna will NEVER leave Josh. Ever. Ever, ever. Josh may leave her, because he's selfish like that, but she Will Never Leave Him. 

[kalamac]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Basically, call me when they print the divorce filing.....

I'm with you.  And the question mark in the headline reminded me of an old journalism rule that basically states: if a headline ends in a question mark, the answer is no. Although if they print variations of these stories enough times, they might be right one of these days, just by chance.

[Missy Vixen]

3 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

I'm inclined to think that gossip is attached to Toby Willis. He's Smuggar sleaze x1000.

I am hoping the mods will grant me a teeny bit of latitude on this one...

WHEN will the executives at TLC start doing some background checks on their "stars"? Their failure to do so with the Duggars cost them $24 million (allegedly). If Joshley Madison was caught with his hand in the cookie jar again, one has to believe that Nancy will be throwing things.

IMHO, of course.

[poopchute]

7 hours ago, Absolom said:

The Kellers at least have to acknowledge divorces happen.  One of their daughters is already divorced.  How their parents handled that may influence what Anna does or how long it takes her to leave Josh.  I think another round or two of his misbehavior will have her out the door.

Sorry, I dont know much about Anna's family.  If her sister is divorced then why is it out of the question for Anna to get a divorce?

[Churchhoney]

3 minutes ago, poopchute said:

Sorry, I dont know much about Anna's family.  If her sister is divorced then why is it out of the question for Anna to get a divorce?

Well, I think it depends on how into the cult Anna is, right? The divorced sister had pretty much left the religion, I think. So if Anna's similarly detached herself from her cult beliefs, then there's nothing against it. But who knows? Compared to some of her siblings, she certainly seemed to be a lot more devoted to it -- including to the "as many children as God wants to give us." That was in the past, though. So maybe now she's in a different mind space. If she is still a Gothard devotee, though, I don't think she'll divorce.

[RazzleberryPie]

1 hour ago, Missy Vixen said:

I am hoping the mods will grant me a teeny bit of latitude on this one...

WHEN will the executives at TLC start doing some background checks on their "stars"? Their failure to do so with the Duggars cost them $24 million (allegedly). If Joshley Madison was caught with his hand in the cookie jar again, one has to believe that Nancy will be throwing things.

IMHO, of course.

I think they do check them, but just don't care. Josh's issues were sealed though, correct? They couldn't have found them if they wanted to.

[Rabbittron]

Josh's was never sealed because they waited too long to report so he was never charged with anything . 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Rabbittron

[Absolom]

54 minutes ago, poopchute said:

Sorry, I dont know much about Anna's family.  If her sister is divorced then why is it out of the question for Anna to get a divorce?

It isn't.  Plenty of IFB people get divorced.  The problem is that they usually have to find another church.  It's frowned upon in IFB and Gothard circles, but it happens.

[becca3891]

12 hours ago, lianau said:

I agree with this to a degree  but I don't think young fundie men go all "I already lusted now let's go through with the touching, too ". We're talking about young people mostly with no outside information and education in very controlled environment . Josh grew up in his parents conversion years before TLC showed up and nobody is as fanatical as a new convert  (I think this is the reason JD and Jana aren't married, same pressure different reaction). So Josh hits puberty with all the normal emotions and hormones attached to it  but has no idea that this is normal and not something sinful to confess and repress. A situation  like this is like  watching a faulty pressure cooker , waiting for it to explode .   Had Josh grown up in a normal family he'd simply started dating ,learned what he liked in a partner or sexually . Instead he was sold the lie that if you just follow all the rules to a godly marriage you'll be blessed with instant happiness. I have no doubt that Josh loves Anna he's just not in love with her and that is what he was promised . I also think Josh would be very happy with  just 2 or 3 kids and it's Anna who wants to up the blessing count . 

In general I don't like the way people just cast the women into the role of perpetual Gothard victim and the men as the oppressing perpetrator . Both are victims of a screwed up system that denies all agency to them and expects them  to conform to a rigid set of behaviours  or they're condemned to hell .

Oh, I absolutely agree that we can't simplify the Gothard lifestyle to villainous men and trapped women. Many women initiate the transition into Gothard land, in my experience. But I do stand by my opinion regarding lusting versus doing. I'm not saying it's the entirety of what happened with Josh, but I do believe it's a component. Do I believe he might have satisfied his curiosity if presented with a basic book about anatomy, rather than a hyper obsessiveness with defrauding and modesty? Absolutely. It's a toxic mix and affects everyone diferently.

9 hours ago, Jeeves said:

 

6 hours ago, farmgal4 said:

 

1 hour ago, Missy Vixen said:

I am hoping the mods will grant me a teeny bit of latitude on this one...

WHEN will the executives at TLC start doing some background checks on their "stars"? Their failure to do so with the Duggars cost them $24 million (allegedly). If Joshley Madison was caught with his hand in the cookie jar again, one has to believe that Nancy will be throwing things.

IMHO, of course.

I'm no big fan of TLC at all, but the first charges against Toby Willis occurred this summer. If someone has a pristine background check, there's just not any more you can do. I'm annoyed that they keep pushing back his court date, by the way, as I want updates!

1 hour ago, poopchute said:

Sorry, I dont know much about Anna's family.  If her sister is divorced then why is it out of the question for Anna to get a divorce?

It cannot be overemphasized how much divorce is feared and forbidden in this lifestyle, which includes all fundies, not just Gothard. I grew up in the Reformed Presbyterian Church, and at 33, it's now been 15 years since I left the church and began my path to liberal secular humanism. But after those 15 years. I STILL have a shocked reaction when I hear about divorce. And I am a full-fledged supporter of divorce, obviously! However, old ingrained notions die hard.

[queenanne]

7 hours ago, BitterApple said:

That's a good point. It's not like Anna would be showing up on her brother's doorstep with just one kid in tow. She'd be adding five people to her sibling's household, upping the overhead significantly. In addition, I don't know what she could realistically expect in terms of spousal and child support. She's married to Josh, not money-bags Boob. She'd need some sort of long-range plan in terms of work or school, and I don't think she has any interest in that. 

True, but the brother did offer openly to the point where he was willing to metaphorically shout it from the rooftops to the press, so I don't think any reticence can be laid at the door of the host.  

I don't actually believe the Daily Mail article further than I can wad it up and throw it, especially as they sourced InTouch, which strikes me like shouting "I made it up!" from the rooftops (what "new friends"?!? When and where is she supposed to have gained said "new friends?"  Based upon their cheesy tabloid covers I'd say InTouch are the "new friends"); but in this patriarchial society I doubt Anna is thinking she has to support herself, even with children.  She never did before; that's the menfolks' job.  I don't think that would be a consideration for her in whether to leave or not.  

What would be a consideration, is how leaving would be tantamount to saying Anna no longer believes that God is like Harry Potter capable of waving a magic wand to fix her marriage, which I don't think Anna would do.  Ever in a million years.  "God will fix", even if you just sit around like a lump doing nothing to bring about the fixing other than praying for it.

Edited November 3, 2016 by queenanne

[MunichNark]

Well, as long as the media doesn't use that bitter old hag on Facebook as a source, I'm good. She is wayyy too up her own arse. Who gets off on having a hate page? Snark is fun, but she is beyond that now.

Believe it when I see it. It'll never happen

[Absolom]

Anna may realize as many before her have that if six months of Jesus rehab didn't fix Josh there is likely nothing in their cult that will.  She's already had several of her dreams crushed some of the beliefs may be next. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

16 hours ago, BitterApple said:

She's married to Josh, not money-bags Boob. She'd need some sort of long-range plan in terms of work or school, and I don't think she has any interest in that. 

I'm not sure if she has any interest in school or a career, either, but to be fair, she's  been brainwashed all her life to believe that she doesn't need to consider either. If she'd had any curiosity to aspire to either, it would have been immediately stomped on. 

With 4 littles in tow, the word isn't exactly going to be her oyster, unless she can find an awesome day care through a church (or can have her siblings watch them), so she can have a few hours free a day for a chance to better herself.  I hope Josh sets her free so she can find a kind Fundy lite  man with a heart for children who will treat her well. 

Edited November 3, 2016 by Arwen Evenstar

[sometimesy]

Hope Anna leaves, yep it will be a struggle, but her kids would be so much better off in public school with a working mom. I don't feel too sorry for Anna, but those kids deserve better. I can't imagine what it's like to live in the worst house, with no appearances on the show, with all assets hidden in Boobs hands, it won't get better from there. She had her martyr talking heads, then it all went away. Time to go.

[Arwen Evenstar]

And she won't have to be joyfully available for a pasty, doughy, flabby disgusting slob of a man who wants to play fantasy porn with her.  Just the thought of her enduring that sends me too far away from my happy place.

[flyingdi]

Now is the perfect time for a divorce if it's true.  Anna would seem to have all the power right now.  She could realistically claim whatever she wanted and any retaliation by the Duggars would seem like bitter lies against a woman who put up with so much.

It is sad because Anna and Josh really seemed to like each other, at least as friends.  They seemed to know more about each other personally than any other Duggar couple including Jim Bob and Michelle.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

18 hours ago, cdp73 said:

Anna leaving Josh would be the equivalent of Katie Holmes getting away from the clams unscathed.

I was just thinking this. Too bad Katie Holmes's dad (as he is a divorce attorney who helped her get out of her marriage to Tom Cruise) can't be hooked up with Anna somehow to extract her from the Duggars.

[tabloidlover]

23 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I wonder if Jim Bob would withdraw support if Anna left Josh.  If he did, he'd surely be vilified and the show would be off the air faster than Michelle can pop a Xanax.  To withdraw support for his own grandchildren?  To condemn Anna for leaving his son who has repeatedly disgraced his family and his marriage vows?

Of course, this is the same JB who conveniently didn't disclose any of Josh's teen-age activities, assumed everything had been swept carefully under the rug, and went on to cash the TLC checks with nary a care in the world, and presented his family as wholesome and happy and kept knocking up his wife to ensure the ratings, so......yeah.  

 

22 hours ago, cdp73 said:

If Anna was only able to realize that she knows where the skeletons are buried, I'm sure she could get a more than fair share from JB.  The only thing he works hard at is hiding his family's secrets, so knowing that she can write a tell-all that would sell well, he'd rather pay her off than lose the TV deal.

OTOH, if Anna did divorce Josh, that would finally give TLC something new to show.

Bolding mine.   I think Jim Boob would have to support/ stand behind Anna and disown Josh.  It is the only way to ensure the gravy train rolls on and also to win back (some) of the fans of the family show.   Anything else would be self destruction and I do think he is smart enough to know it. 

[Natalie68]

19 hours ago, Absolom said:

It isn't.  Plenty of IFB people get divorced.  The problem is that they usually have to find another church.  It's frowned upon in IFB and Gothard circles, but it happens.

So basically they would need to find a new living room and attend church with NON family members.  It sounds difficult for normal IFB folks but all these chuckleheads have to do is actually FIND a church that isn't in dads living room.

[Absolom]

I've posted before that the so-called home church broke up - the warehouse one that had grown over the years.  I don't know where Jim Bob is taking his brood, but it seems Derick and Jill are going to Cross Church.  I expect if Anna did divorce Josh she wouldn't be living with Jim Bob and Michelle any more anyway. 

[GeeGolly]

I'm not so sure Josh isn't behaving himself. That was a pretty big wake-up call. His name was smeared, his livelihood and his family's livelihood were effected. The Daily Mail article was quoting an In Touch article. They publish a lot of stuff, until they get it right or get sued.

I'm not sure at this point Anna isn't relatively happy in her marriage. Most folks would have never married Josh in the first place, so Anna has already shown that she thinks differently. (Just like a Duggar)

Joshes behaviors were disgusting and horrific, but I hope for his kids' sake as well as Anna's that he is capable of owning his shit and stepping up.

[Lady Edith]

I read somewhere (maybe here?  Or FJ?) an account by a guy who attended one of those marriage retreats that JB and Michelle went to.  Supposedly Smuggar and Anna were there, too, along with Joy and another J-son (who were weekend volunteers).  The guy said that Anna spent a lot of time alone, walking, or with Joy.  He said he saw her several times and she was crying or looked as if she had just finished crying.  

So if this account is true, I think I may believe the divorce report just a little.  It may be 20% truth and 80% wishful thinking, but still.  

[Sew Sumi]

I don't know who publicizes that they are GOING to see a lawyer IN A FEW WEEKS. Uhm, like, nobody. Who would Anna have told except people she trusts completely to keep her confidence? 

I guess InTouch hadn't posted any Smuggly news in a while, or they're pissed that they didn't get the JinJer wedding exclusive that we'll see probably Monday because Tuesday is the election...doubt they'll be stupid enough to release then...it'll get buried. 

[Rabbittron]

Perfect title for the show would be  Anna plus 4 Starting Over. 

[JoanArc]

Quote

doubt they'll be stupid enough

There's nothing they're not stupid enough to do, but I agree.

[Fuzzysox]

Let's wait and see if Anna and Smugs are in pictures for Jinger and Babe's wedding. I think we will get a better picture if we can see their placement and the look on Anna's face vs. reading some rags that are purely speculating on a divorce.

[Sew Sumi]

I think that the Smug family will be in pictures...in a spot where they can easily be photoshopped out for the major national publications. They will be in pictures that the Duggars post on their personal social media. Count on it. 

[Iguessnot]

On 11/3/2016 at 5:36 PM, Lady Edith said:

I read somewhere (maybe here?  Or FJ?) an account by a guy who attended one of those marriage retreats that JB and Michelle went to.  Supposedly Smuggar and Anna were there, too, along with Joy and another J-son (who were weekend volunteers).  The guy said that Anna spent a lot of time alone, walking, or with Joy.  He said he saw her several times and she was crying or looked as if she had just finished crying.  

So if this account is true, I think I may believe the divorce report just a little.  It may be 20% truth and 80% wishful thinking, but still.  

There was a link a few pages back to some reddit conversation. However, as I read it, every posting of this "guy" felt like it was written by a female. There was a story about a men's session, but it was off somehow. The telling of how the women got Anna alone was told from the same detached perspective. "He" didn't say his wife told him what the women said to Anna. "He" told us what they said. Although this person answered many questions, a certain vagueness crept through the replies. 

[Churchhoney]

1 hour ago, Iguessnot said:

There was a link a few pages back to some reddit conversation. However, as I read it, every posting of this "guy" felt like it was written by a female. There was a story about a men's session, but it was off somehow. The telling of how the women got Anna alone was told from the same detached perspective. "He" didn't say his wife told him what the women said to Anna. "He" told us what they said. Although this person answered many questions, a certain vagueness crept through the replies. 

Yeah, that's exactly how it struck me, too.

[CarolMK]

It must have been "Razing Ruth" striking again, who claimed to be at the marriage retreat. 

To keep on topic, I really don't think Anna will divorce Josh. If anything, he might be the one to do it but not for a few years. She wouldn't be able handle being a single mom in a world where you just stay married to your husband, no matter what he's done. She's totally brainwashed.

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, Churchhoney said:

Yeah, that's exactly how it struck me, too.

Thirded. I'm pretty sure I labeled it as fanfic at the time. 

[CofCinci]

He has a smartphone again.  Ut oh.  Run, Anna!

[Sew Sumi]

At least he's carrying Meredith? His face must only look thin straight-on, because he looks like an entirely different tub of blob in this pic. 

 

[louannems]

Check out Josh's ripped up sneakers!  Are they Velcro?!?

[Marigold]

Maybe he likes to wear his expensive shoes to the strip clubs? 

[Sew Sumi]

18 minutes ago, louannems said:

Check out Josh's ripped up sneakers!  Are they Velcro?!?

LOL, I think you're right. Boob didn't do any better. You'd think Smuggar would have some dress shoes from his days as a fancy DC lobbyist. 

[Marigold]

20 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

LOL, I think you're right. Boob didn't do any better. You'd think Smuggar would have some dress shoes from his days as a fancy DC lobbyist. 

Oh, we could make so many jokes about that...quite a few dirty ones come to mind...

[BitterApple]

All these Duggar women who can sew and nobody bothered to properly hem Boob's pants? 

Josh hasn't lost an ounce, that must've been a verrrrry flattering camera angle in that Daily Fail shot.

[Marigold]

And that snotty little birthday video they did for Anna, praising how she cleans all the shit everyone else doesn't want to do.

Yep, real sisterly love there. 

[JoanArc]

3 hours ago, CofCinci said:

He has a smartphone again.  Ut oh.  Run, Anna!

Oh shit. This marriage us so over.