Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[Flowers]

Sorry, yes, the vibrating bouncy seat. All very fake.

[Happyfatchick]

I think this is one of the most interesting instagram comments (I'm not going to post the commenters name): The sad thing I've noticed, those defending this child molester are kids themselves !!!

Exactly! Either the posters are completely illiterate, or they are children themselves (not a great commentary on our education system, either!). I would have a heart attack if my CHILD was posting to them, about them, hating on them, positing their theories of the beginning of time.... Oh my Lord, that whole thing creeps me OUT!!! Thank God my first 2 kids missed FB and Instagram by age while they were under my watch and the youngest was way too lazy to fight on Instagram.

Wait...did I just say I was thankful my kid was lazy? Oh well, he's grown out of that. Whew!!!

@ Wellfleet: I LOVE commercials! Just the funny ones. Jake from State Farm is a great commercial! There's nothing better than a hilarious commercial. (But I'm ADD, so you have to get my attention QUICK!)

Edited June 24, 2015 by Happyfatchick

[becca3891]

Random, but here's something that always bugged me about Josh and Anna's move to DC (which I've watched dozens of times, partly because I live in that area also) ---- the "bouncy seat is missing" arc. That was clearly staged. There was so much emphasis on "Sweetheart, make sure it's somewhere safe!" And then big trainer guy carrying it onto the moving truck. And then in DC, "Sweetheart, where's the bouncy seat?"

Why this bothered me so much, I don't know. We all realize reality TV isn't real. But that always made me crazy.

And along with it, the "Your parents aren't here yet?l" and Michelle telling the camera "Maybe they'll have a night quiet night in their...motor home."

Also, when Josh wakes JB up at the Bates house in the morning, before heading to DC, where is Michelle? Do she and JB not sleep in the same bed???

True, reality TV isn't real, but they claim they don't have staged things like that, when it was blatantly obvious that it was indeed staged. It bugged me too. But yes, maybe they thought the Anna calling it a vibrator hilarity was too good not to highlight.

 

On a completely different note, Youtube was on autoplay after I rewatched Josiah and Marjorie singing (more on that in the correct thread) and I rewatched this video which included Josh giving an impassioned speech on the evils of gay people. He was trying SO HARD to play politician, you can just sense watching it how much he wanted to someday run for office. It must be killing him that he no longer stands any chance in the world of being elected. The clip I'm referring to is at the 1:30 mark. 

[BitterApple]

Anna looks like she's about two seconds from going all "Serenity now" and tearing up the restaurant a la Kramer from Seinfeld.

Josh really does not need to be inhaling a 5,000 calorie sundae.

[kandinski]

Imagine being in Annas position,knowing she has to bow and scape to that vile blob of lard.Its her own fault though she behaves like a classic trauma victim to me,someone who has been broken down in everyway.....and quess what?She loves it...its precious!

Edited June 24, 2015 by kandinski

[kokapetl]

Anna looks like she's about two seconds from going all "Serenity now" and tearing up the restaurant a la Kramer from Seinfeld.

Josh really does not need to be inhaling a 5,000 calorie sundae.

Yeah, I doubt Anna is going to get anything more than a bite of that cake. Looking back, I can see Josh taking into consideration that the black fitness guy wouldn't be in DC, when he was deciding to move or not.

[Aja]

Anna needs to learn to unclench her teeth and tone down the panic eyes if she really wants us to buy the "we're FINE!" routine.

[cheatincheetos]

There was a man in the moon logo -- you can still see echoes of it in their newer logos with a crescent along the edge -- and people thought that the top and the bottom of it looked like Satan's horns. Then people started thinking they could see 6 6 6 in curlicues of the drawing.

The Koolaid man looks like he has triple 6 on him actually. Note the shape of the eyes and nose. And then there's all those poor cultists who died of poisoned Koolaid at Jonestown. Aroint thee, foul demon!

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/12/Kool_Aid_Man.jpeg

[Adiba]

Anna looks like she's about two seconds from going all "Serenity now" and tearing up the restaurant a la Kramer from Seinfeld.

Josh really does not need to be inhaling a 5,000 calorie sundae.

Yep, Anna is sporting some "crazy eyes" in that pic, while Josh looks pretty content. I have to have some sympathy for Anna, though. While I do not agree with many of her beliefs, she is worthy of compassion, imo. She was raised with the idea that a woman's duty is to stand by her man, she is about to give birth to her fourth child by that man, and divorce isn' t really an option for her(?)

Edited to add: Also, she's had to endure moving so late in her pregnancy AND into a house that needs reno work--I'd be going bananas if I were her.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Adiba

[Bella]

Some day, one of the people we're talking about in this forum is going to run away and surprise us all. It happens. It's happened with people who post here.

 

I have Anna about mid-way on my list. The cognitive dissonance right now has got to be tremendous, but she doesn't strike me as someone who takes action on her own. OTOH, she has relatives who are not Duggars, and she probably met people while living outside of DC. I view her "escape" as unlikely but not impossible.

[Barb23]

Don't know if this has been discussed yet. I'm sure when Smugs left his job behind in DC, his health insurance benefits went with it (unless he did COBRA, which is very expensive). So I guess this means Anna will most likely have a home birth for #4. Hopefully this time someone will slip her some pain med/happy pills while in labor.

[doodlebug]

Don't know if this has been discussed yet. I'm sure when Smugs left his job behind in DC, his health insurance benefits went with it (unless he did COBRA, which is very expensive). So I guess this means Anna will most likely have a home birth for #4. Hopefully this time someone will slip her some pain med/happy pills while in labor.

As an 'executive' at FRC, Joshie should've gotten a severance package.  One would hope he (or his lawyer) would've negotiated continuing his benefits through the birth of the baby.  Of course, Josh doesn't seemingly care what kind of health care Anna gets for her pregnancies and deliveries. so maybe not.  If they don't have insurance, it's another homebirth with a non professional in attendance.  He's got Jim Bob's cheap gene, at least when it comes to his wife and kids.  Somehow, I think that if it was Josh who was needing the medical care, the Mayo Clinic would be on standby.

[Anne Elk]

I hope you're right about one of those kids eventually breaking away! I agree, it's possible - and I hope it's probable.

 

But I also think that all too often when we're posting about one of them (in this case Anna or Josh) possibly doing that, we're failing to take into account the realities of how they were reared and the strong authoritarian mindset that's been ingrained in them. Hence I tend to weigh in as the Voice of Doom now and then.  As a counterweight to our projecting so much wishful thinking - and our own very different world views - on the people in that family.  And thus I go overboard in the other direction. 

 

Edited for clarity.

 

I share your pessimism, especially about Anna. Earlier in the thread lots of people were talking about how she and Josh looked like they might have relaxed a little in their strict fundamentalist lifestyle while they were in DC. Well, to their perspective, it probably looks like they moved to DC, got corrupted by the secular life around them and God responded by forcing them back to Arkansas and the Church of Jim Bob. All this is part of God's plan, after all. So I would bet they are even more zealous in their Duggarisms now that they've been burned. I feel sorry for their kids especially -- it was nice to think they might grow up with some acquaintance with normal life and education, but that'll never happen now.

 

Plus I'll bet Josh is awful to live with right now. He doesn't seem like the type to keep his complaining to himself.

 

If any of the Duggars do break away from the family, I think the most likely is one of the middle ones that get overlooked all the time. 

[GEML]

Some day, one of the people we're talking about in this forum is going to run away and surprise us all. It happens. It's happened with people who post here.

I have Anna about mid-way on my list. The cognitive dissonance right now has got to be tremendous, but she doesn't strike me as someone who takes action on her own. OTOH, she has relatives who are not Duggars, and she probably met people while living outside of DC. I view her "escape" as unlikely but not impossible.

Yes, someone bolts. I don't know of ANY Fundy family of any size where it didn't happen. Right now, I think they are held together more by economics than even belief structure. As those economics change, so will their loyalty to each other.

[Jellybeans]

Yes, someone bolts. I don't know of ANY Fundy family of any size where it didn't happen. Right now, I think they are held together more by economics than even belief structure. As those economics change, so will their loyalty to each other.

Who do you think it will be GEML, if you had to take your best guess? And who do you think will never say a word?

[silverspoons]

Does anyone think Anna could have said no to marrying Josh? Josh was calling her father and asking for permission to visit and then court her. Pa Keller is the one who prayed and got an answer that Josh was the one. I was thinking about the big proposal at Gator Landing, could Anna have said no to Josh? I don't think so. I'm sure at first she was excited about the prospect of marriage but was she given more then 10 seconds to think about her answer. If her father had prayed and gotten the word that Josh was the one, how could Anna say no.

I think Anna being trapped started from the day her father and Josh got together and chose her future not in May when the news broke.

 

Anna has it better in some ways then her sisters. Back in Arkansas she has lots of SIL's  to talk to or help her. The new house is almost 3,000 on a large yard so her kids will have space to play. She will keep busy with her kids and the house. I don't think she is going to miss her life in DC or any higher standard of living she had. Her love with Josh never seemed like stars and fireworks, it was basically arranged marriage based on the same beliefs and some basic level of attraction.

[JoanArc]

FWIW Anna has siblings who escaped Gothard, and haven't been totally cut off. I hope they're whispering in her ear that it's ok to be freaked out by this whole thing, and she's not obligated to stay with Josh, if she doesn't want to.

[barbedwire]

I think it will be JoHannah who will bolt.  She will run out of sister-moms (if Jana and Jinger get married) cuz Joy will be taking care of Josie, precious Josie.  Michelle will be too busy with speaking engagements, her treadmill, and still holding onto the hope she can become pregnant again.  The guilt will begin that Jo should go help Jill with her 12 boys.  I think it will all get to her and she will make a run to live with Famy in Nashville.

[Jellybeans]

I always got the feeling (pre-scandal) Anna loved Josh. How will she handle that part if SHE feels he no longer has those feelings? Say she has seen nothing at all with the kids at home and I am sure she has thought back more than once.

I feel for Anna and her terrible situation. And her cute daughters...

[Marigold]

I'm curious as to what employment josh can find.

He is gonna chill out for a while but then what? Maybe Ben will get moved up to Supervisor of Toilet Cleaning and Josh will slide right into Ben's old job.

[MargeGunderson]

Some day, one of the people we're talking about in this forum is going to run away and surprise us all. It happens. It's happened with people who post here.

 

I have Anna about mid-way on my list. The cognitive dissonance right now has got to be tremendous, but she doesn't strike me as someone who takes action on her own. OTOH, she has relatives who are not Duggars, and she probably met people while living outside of DC. I view her "escape" as unlikely but not impossible.

 

From your mouth to God's ears!

[kokapetl]

Some day, one of the people we're talking about in this forum is going to run away and surprise us all. It happens. It's happened with people who post here.

I have Anna about mid-way on my list. The cognitive dissonance right now has got to be tremendous, but she doesn't strike me as someone who takes action on her own. OTOH, she has relatives who are not Duggars, and she probably met people while living outside of DC. I view her "escape" as unlikely but not impossible.

Did SARS or Man From F.U.N.K.L.E escape?

[Barb23]

Silverspoons - you have a good point, could Anna have said No? Didn't she say that "Anna Keller" wasn't as taken with Josh Duggar as he was with her when they met at the concession stand at the AT I conference? To him it was love at first sight. I don't think she realized what a "catch" he was until he mentioned the car lot & house to Mrs. Keller.

[Marigold]

Anna is probably the one who could escape the easiest. She has sisters on the outside. I bet her parents would take her home. Maybe not but I just feel that her parents would...

[Beaner]

Anna is probably the one who could escape the easiest. She has sisters on the outside. I bet her parents would take her home. Maybe not but I just feel that her parents would...

I wish...but she's stuck. The only option she has is standing by her man & continuing to make M babies. Leaving Josh & the lifestyle, no matter how miserable it is, would never occur to her. Ever.

[zenme]

I wish...but she's stuck. The only option she has is standing by her man & continuing to make M babies. Leaving Josh & the lifestyle, no matter how miserable it is, would never occur to her. Ever

 

I agree, and I don't think she'll ever leave him.  Maybe she has a plan though, and all of those calorie-ridden, high cholesterol foods are part of it!

[Satchels of gold]

Just wanted to add that Josh has the waist and hair line he deserves.

[Albanyguy]

Josh really does not need to be inhaling a 5,000 calorie sundae.

 

 

I think it's very likely that Josh will really start packing on the pounds now. It's always seemed that junk food has been his stress reliever and now, with his life in shambles, he'll be self-medicating with burgers, pizza and ice cream the way a non-fundy guy in his position might start hitting the bottle.

 

As an 'executive' at FRC, Joshie should've gotten a severance package.  One would hope he (or his lawyer) would've negotiated continuing his benefits through the birth of the baby.  Of course, Josh doesn't seemingly care what kind of health care Anna gets for her pregnancies and deliveries. so maybe not.

 

 

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

Maybe she has a plan though, and all of those calorie-ridden, high cholesterol foods are part of it!

 

 

Ha, love it! Too bad she's never been allowed to watch the episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents where the demure little housewife bashes her husband's head in with a frozen leg of lamb and then cooks and serves it to the detectives investigating his murder.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Albanyguy

[HundFan]

Josh = done. Stick a fork in him. Boob & Mechelle = same. Nothing they do or say or post can redeem them at this point. We know who they really are. But Anna ... I confess to having sort of liked her before all this broke (in a "California liberal disgusted by her intolerant religious stance yet still oddly fascinated by her" way). Then I began to pity her for the fear, regret and shame this whole Josh mess has heaped on her. Now - I'm just plain old irritated and fed up with her.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know she's pregnant and has 3 little kids and was raised as a Gothardite. But she has sisters who have escaped the crazy. Meaning she has a potential support network to which she could flee. Hell, even her parents (depending on how much they knew and condoned prior to her engagement) might now be sympathetic to helping her run from this moral fustercluck. Sidebar: look at the abused Mormon polygamous wives who have, despite much worse odds, managed to flee their cults and build new, better lives.

 

So does Anna, in a wildly bold and praise-worthy act, seize the reins and get her 3 1/2 children out of the Josh quagmire? No way! She smiles (albeit wanly) for the camera and lauds Josh as the world's best dad (albeit weakly). Even though most of us claim (and really hope) we see little leaks of distaste and confusion in her face, she still sticks to the script. She still stays the horrible course with her molesting husband and his molestation-enabling parents.

 

Is she too isolated and terrified to help herself? Too inculcated with Gothardism to even consider challenging her headship? Or simply too stupid to understand the gravity of what Josh has done -- much less the horrible ills that could still befall her and the kids if she doesn't spirit them quickly away from that criminal she married? I don't know. I don't care. Granted, it's a big deal, leaving your husband, especially with 3 little children and one more on the way. And an even bigger deal if you've been raised in a cult that teaches you all your worth hinges on marriage to a man who holds all the power. But choosing to stay with a child molester  -- that's the BIGGEST deal of all.   Maybe we could cut her slack for knowing less than the full story when she married. But however that shook down, it's clear that Anna  knows it ALL now.

 

So no more excuses. No more mercy. Anna needs to stop with the damage control and get the hell out of Dodge. Without Joshie. Otherwise, her future (and that of her children) is as cooked as Josh's. If, as it looks likely, she stays (shudder), she'll  have no one but herself to blame.

 

 

[Churchhoney]

I think it's very likely that Josh will really start packing on the pounds now. It's always seemed that junk food has been his stress reliever and now, with his life in shambles, he'll be self-medicating with burgers, pizza and ice cream the way a non-fundy guy in his position might start hitting the bottle.

 

 

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

 

 

 

I think you're right about what Josh's attitude would have been. However, call me crazy, but I think it's likely that FRC had a different view and included an extension of their health insurance for six months or through the end of the year of their own accord. It's clear that they were instantly aware of the PR nightmare this whole thing could be for them, so it wouldn't surprise me if they also had the sense to see that stripping health coverage from a a stressed-out mother-to-be who'd have to make an interstate move near her due date could also have PR consequences for them. They knew she'd continue to be a news story and if she had a problem birth while lacking health insurance, they might well get mentioned in the inevitable news stories. I expect Josh's whole severance package was engineered to put as much public distance between Josh and his fam and FRC as possible.

[SmallTownMom]

That Father's Day video is everywhere!  I clicked on a link expecting something new, and there's Anna calling Boob "Pops" and gazing at Josh adoringly.  While holding her belly.  We get it, you're pregnant.  Why do all these girls do that?  I don't remember holding my belly the nonstop while I was pregnant.

 

I'd have a hard time letting Josh touch me now that we all know where his hands have been.

 

Kind of sad, Josh's memories. "I remember riding around in the tow truck with you and later doing paperwork."  Really?  My daughter remembers her daddy reading to her, teaching her to tie her shoes, playing games, flying kites, trips to the mountains and Disneyland, riding bike, going to the movies, going for ice cream.  You know normal stuff.  Dad even taught a class on car care for the Jr. Girl Scouts to earn a badge.

 

I also just saw that clip where Boob made Hannie stand between Ben and Jessa while they prayed because they weren't allowed to hold hands.  WTF?  Was he going to ravage her while the rest prayed?  Oh, and I have always loved him asking Jill and Derick if they had a chaperone on their wedding day when they were going  to call his mom (I think) mere hours before the ceremony.  Did it really matter at that point!?  Sick, stupid, shit like this probably has these kids so confused about the opposite sex. [snip]

Edited June 24, 2015 by bigskygirl
Speculating about why Josh molested girls

[Wellfleet]

I'm curious as to what employment josh can find.

He is gonna chill out for a while but then what? Maybe Ben will get moved up to Supervisor of Toilet Cleaning and Josh will slide right into Ben's old job.

 

LOL! No, actually I can't see Boob putting an in-law in charge of one of his own special offspring. Ben will be stepped over. Josh will get the Toilet Brush command.

[Julia]

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

[GEML]

My Best guess is one or both of the younger twins bolting. I think they are fairly intelligent, they have each other, and being of the same sex, won't be separated. They are in the middle of the pack, so little attention will be paid to them. They can simply get fed up and go and everyone will go Jer and Jeb who????

[Sew Sumi]

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

I'm thinking that Joshiepoo got about 2 months' severance and insurance coverage. That would cover Anna's delivery, although do these lay midwives even deal with insurance companies, or are they cash only outfits? 

 

Not snarking; I have zero experience with midwives who aren't connected with an OB-GYN's office. 

[Churchhoney]

I'm thinking that Joshiepoo got about 2 months' severance and insurance coverage. That would cover Anna's delivery, although do these lay midwives even deal with insurance companies, or are they cash only outfits? 

 

Not snarking; I have zero experience with midwives who aren't connected with an OB-GYN's office. 

 

I'm hoping that the CNM they worked with in DC hooked them up with another CNM group in Arkansas. I suppose I hope in vain. (hope not, though)

[Sew Sumi]

Isn't AR one of the states that bars CNMs? I thought someone posted regulations before, and that was one of them. I guess she could go over to OK. The border is actually quite close to their new home, closer than going into Fayetteville or wherever it was she went the last time (an hour away, as I recall).

[carrps]

I'd be willing to bet that Josh was much more concerned with getting as much cash as he could out of the FRC, rather than carrying his benefits through the baby's birth. After all, everything turned out fine with the first three births, so why worry? And if something does go wrong, the  Lord will take care of them.

 

 

Ha, love it! Too bad she's never been allowed to watch the episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents where the demure little housewife bashes her husband's head in with a frozen leg of lamb and then cooks and serves it to the detectives investigating his murder.

Barbara Bel Geddes! And it was based on a Roald Dahl short story.

[Julia]

Barbara Bel Geddes! And it was based on a Roald Dahl short story.

 

A Lamb to the Slaughter. I loved the way she got away with it because everyone who knew her husband assumed, like he did, that she was too stupid and ineffectual to do anything about the way her husband treated her. 

[Churchhoney]

Isn't AR one of the states that bars CNMs? I thought someone posted regulations before, and that was one of them. I guess she could go over to OK. The border is actually quite close to their new home, closer than going into Fayetteville or wherever it was she went the last time (an hour away, as I recall).

 

Cripes.

 

According to this, though, looks like nurse-midwives can practice anywhere?   http://mana.org/about-midwives/legal-status-of-us-midwives

 

Nurse-Midwives practice legally in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. Certified Professional Midwives are legally authorized to practice in 28 states. Certified Midwives practice legally in only three states.

 

In any case, I hope -- though probably in vain -- that the DC-area CNMs hooked her up with somebody nearby.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Churchhoney

[Sew Sumi]

I found the link. CNMs are allowed to practice in AR. I hope Anna was referred to a good one. I also had the qualifications backward; some states don't allow lay midwives. My bad. 

 

What I AM confused about is Vanessa Giron. She said she also practiced in OK and MO, IIRC. Neither state has licensure for lay midwives. Maybe she can still go to TX; they do allow for lay midwives. This woman seems like a total fraud. 

Edited June 25, 2015 by Sew Sumi

[doodlebug]

I found the link. CNMs are allowed to practice in AR. I hope Anna was referred to a good one. I also had the qualifications backward; some states don't allow lay midwives. My bad. 

 

What I AM confused about is Vanessa Giron. She said she also practiced in OK and MO, IIRC. Neither state has licensure for lay midwives. Maybe she can still go to TX; they do allow for lay midwives. This woman seems like a total fraud. 

There are a lot of 'lay midwives' out there who practice outside of traditional medical practice.  I practice OB in a state that doesn't permit lay midwifery, but there are at least a half dozen of them who do homebirths in my near vicinity.  They are practicing without a license which is against the law, but only if they get caught.  As long as the families don't rat them out to the cops, they are not going to be in trouble.  Of course, they don' accept regular medical insurance, but they usually want cash up front anyway.  If the couple is uninsured, it is far cheaper to pay a lay midwife and have the kiddo at home than go too the hospital. Many times, around here, the lay midwife will encourage the woman to get care with a regular CNM so she can get blood work and ultrasounds and such.  Then, when she goes into labor, the woman calls the lay midwife and not the CNM.  Of course, if things happen and she goes to the hospital, her lay midwife won't go with her or will lie about her role in the delivery (with the woman corroborating) to avoid having the L&D staff turn her in. The sorts of clients who seek out a lay midwife are often skeptical of traditional medical care anyway, so they tend to not want to get the usual blood work or ultrasounds.

 

So, even if lay midwifery is illegal in Oklahoma and Missouri, I am sure there are plenty of lay midwives operating under the radar and Vanessa might well have been one of them.

Edited June 25, 2015 by doodlebug

[Jynnan tonnix]

Josh = done. Stick a fork in him. Boob & Mechelle = same. Nothing they do or say or post can redeem them at this point. We know who they really are. But Anna ... I confess to having sort of liked her before all this broke (in a "California liberal disgusted by her intolerant religious stance yet still oddly fascinated by her" way). Then I began to pity her for the fear, regret and shame this whole Josh mess has heaped on her. Now - I'm just plain old irritated and fed up with her.

 

Yeah, yeah, I know she's pregnant and has 3 little kids and was raised as a Gothardite. But she has sisters who have escaped the crazy. Meaning she has a potential support network to which she could flee. Hell, even her parents (depending on how much they knew and condoned prior to her engagement) might now be sympathetic to helping her run from this moral fustercluck. Sidebar: look at the abused Mormon polygamous wives who have, despite much worse odds, managed to flee their cults and build new, better lives.

 

So does Anna, in a wildly bold and praise-worthy act, seize the reins and get her 3 1/2 children out of the Josh quagmire? No way! She smiles (albeit wanly) for the camera and lauds Josh as the world's best dad (albeit weakly). Even though most of us claim (and really hope) we see little leaks of distaste and confusion in her face, she still sticks to the script. She still stays the horrible course with her molesting husband and his molestation-enabling parents.

 

Is she too isolated and terrified to help herself? Too inculcated with Gothardism to even consider challenging her headship? Or simply too stupid to understand the gravity of what Josh has done -- much less the horrible ills that could still befall her and the kids if she doesn't spirit them quickly away from that criminal she married? I don't know. I don't care. Granted, it's a big deal, leaving your husband, especially with 3 little children and one more on the way. And an even bigger deal if you've been raised in a cult that teaches you all your worth hinges on marriage to a man who holds all the power. But choosing to stay with a child molester  -- that's the BIGGEST deal of all.   Maybe we could cut her slack for knowing less than the full story when she married. But however that shook down, it's clear that Anna  knows it ALL now.

 

So no more excuses. No more mercy. Anna needs to stop with the damage control and get the hell out of Dodge. Without Joshie. Otherwise, her future (and that of her children) is as cooked as Josh's. If, as it looks likely, she stays (shudder), she'll  have no one but herself to blame.

Really nicely written, Hundfan, and you have made some really good points.

 

Personally, I am given to giving people the benefit of the doubt in what is probably a pathetically large proportion of the time, so I've been following these proceedings for the past weeks with interest, but have avoided actually commenting on them. I may also add that I really don't have a religious bone in my body, but just like to try to put myself in other people's shoes. Frankly, sometimes it ends up disturbing me a bit how easy it can be to make any number of really creepy things seem like natural progressions from a certain sort of mindset once you put yourself into a person's shoes. Maybe I'll try to expand on this a bit at some point, but at the moment that's about all the posting energy I can muster up...

[farmgal4]

I know nothing about Josh's contract, but I'm pretty sure he'd be eligible for COBRA.

Probably, but COBRA ain't cheap.

[BitterApple]

Probably, but COBRA ain't cheap.

I remember being laid off a few years back and my jaw hit the floor when I found out how much COBRA would cost me and this was as a single woman. I can't begin to imagine what it would run for a family of five.

[irisheyes]

They'll have another home birth with a lay midwife. Probably the same people who were there before. I mean, she's already popped out three kids, so nothing will go wrong, right? They're God's chosen people, and bad happens to them. Joshy Boy already has his nap area set up and ready to go.

[Loves2Dance]

Yes, someone bolts. I don't know of ANY Fundy family of any size where it didn't happen. Right now, I think they are held together more by economics than even belief structure. As those economics change, so will their loyalty to each other.

I agree. My money is on one of the boys bolting first; the statistics of every son being submissive to their father through adulthood is nearly impossible. My bet is on a middle son---they're old enough to comprehend what is happening now and be able to see the aftermath, and once the economics have been cut, they're gone. From there a Joannah or Jordyn runs.

[Vermicious Knid]

I doubt Anna can even spell 'cognitive dissonance'. I agree she is too brainwashed to even think about leaving Josh or her community. They've also had it beaten into their skulls (literally?) how everyone on the outside is evil and Godless, which is pretty typical of any religious cult. Members tend to stay if they fear for their souls.

 

Here's a quick rundown on the Satanist rumors about the P&G logo. It was a real thing.

http://www.businessinsider.com/pg-puts-moon-in-new-logo-despite-satanist-accusations-2013-5

 

[kokapetl]

My Best guess is one or both of the younger twins bolting. I think they are fairly intelligent, they have each other, and being of the same sex, won't be separated. They are in the middle of the pack, so little attention will be paid to them. They can simply get fed up and go and everyone will go Jer and Jeb who????

They were by far the hardest Duggar kids to remember. If one left and one stayed, it'd be weeks before Jimchelle noticed.

I think Jackson is the most likely. He'll be as useful as tits on a bull at Duggar Construction, JimBob will become hostile to him, and his brothers are pretty hostile to him already. I can picture him falling for a fried blonde diner waitress, and choosing her over his family.

[dillpickles]

They were by far the hardest Duggar kids to remember. If one left and one stayed, it'd be weeks before Jimchelle noticed.

I think Jackson is the most likely. He'll be as useful as tits on a bull at Duggar Construction, JimBob will become hostile to him, and his brothers are pretty hostile to him already. I can picture him falling for a fried blonde diner waitress, and choosing her over his family.

Is jackson the one who hasn't learned to brush his teeth yet?

I actually think Josh would be likely to leave... i mean, look what's happened to him so far. He did everything he was supposed to, and now look where he's at.