Josh & Anna Smuggar: A Series of Unfortunate Events

[anony mouse]

I hope the person who was responsible never gets outed. If they do, they'll get sued and most likely charged with taking the report out of the police files.

The longer that person can remain anonymous, the more likely it will be that there will be more information that mysteriously finds its way into the media's hands.

IMHO, of course.

I actually hope they do get exposed, that way the girls can get some control over this, even if via a lawsuit. We have no idea how they feel about this, but they have a right to privacy that has been blown to smithereens possibly in violation of the law. In my opinion, releasing this report is violating them all over again, and this person needs to be exposed so more information isn't leaked. The public doesn't need to know the dirty details. Edited May 28, 2015 by starving artist

[methinkstoomuch]

Josh confessed his "crimes" to Anna before they were married. I wonder if at anytime it crossed Anna's mind to some how find help for the girls, blow the whistle, let the cat out of the bag, talk to someone about the elephant in the room...I wouldn't be able to sleep at night or live with myself.

[Fuzzysox]

I hope the person who was responsible never gets outed. If they do, they'll get sued and most likely charged with taking the report out of the police files.

The longer that person can remain anonymous, the more likely it will be that there will be more information that mysteriously finds its way into the media's hands.

IMHO, of course.

InTouch used a FOID request to obtain the police report legally. I'm saying someone sent the story into InTouch with details. InTouch must have had a good reason to go further and file a FOID request. I can see it as someone that lives near them they got pissed off if MEchelle said something insulting to that person. As an act of retaluation they wrote to various media outlets about Josh. InTouch must have thought we have to run with this once they got the FOID and whatever the informant said rang/read true. Edited May 28, 2015 by Fuzzysox

[JAYJAY1979]

I do.wonder if this couple will stay together, if child services will want the couple to be monitored, etc.

Interesting comparison..especially interesting since that particular book wouldn't have been on their reading list growing up.

Edited May 30, 2015 by JAYJAY1979

[JoanArc]

Yikes. Apparently the wages of sin are $45k.

[AuntieDiane6]

 

Yikes. Apparently the wages of sin are $45k.

 

Per episode.

 

Plus, they got a lot of things comped:  weddings, trips to talk shows, conferences etc.

 

All that may dry up too.

[JoanArc]

Per episode.

 

Plus, they got a lot of things comped:  weddings, trips to talk shows, conferences etc.

 

All that may dry up too.

I think we'll finally find out what was and was not comped, which is a frequent source of discussion here.

 

I did read an article that said TLC comped Josh&Anna's Tokyo hotel room, which ran $3k/night. (That's about right for Tokyo)

[Honeycocoa]

Adding  my 2 cents to the swarm. I tried to watch the Digging In episode and only lasted 10 minutes. It was just so very creepy .  There’s nothing entertaining about wondering who committed what crime against who when.  As a retired mental health professional I should have a higher tolerance than this, but no one is paying me, so I’m not observing.  I’ve been thinking about this way too much, so in trying to be constructive I made up a treatment plan.

 

Please note this is all very much based on the idea that nothing has happened in the past 12 years and that all crimes were accounted for in the police report.  If it turns out there’s more ( please God, no)  all bets are off.

 

Josh needs to understand that if he ever wants any credibility he needs to seek experienced, professional help from a licensed mental health professional.   Prayer, apology and remodeling just doesn’t cut it in the real world and I think Josh does like living in the real word.   There are therapists who work with offenders.  Local probation officers and domestic violence agencies can refer him. I don’t think he needs an inpatient program at this point. But he needs to commit to some serious treatment.   He needs to commit some form of restitution.  This is how we deal with crimes in this society, is via money.  Funds  should be set up for the victims and Josh  makes regular payments.  The victims can do whatever they want with the money.  Support a charity or go to Vegas, I don’t care.  Something along the lines of property management seems like a good “job “ for Josh. Or a prison ministry.  Clearly fundraising and politics are over.  He and his family need to come up with a policy whereby he never spends the night in a house with women and children other that his immediate family.  If some family visits them, or they travel, he stays in a hotel. No one should ever have to worry about sleeping in the same house with him again.    

  
Anna needs her own therapist.  An experienced, licensed  professional who works with  offender families. She needs someone confidential to talk to who can help her through this crisis. She also needs reliable child care.  It’s not fair to ask Mackenzie to watch the boys while mommy goes in her room to cry for three hours.  And she needs to seriously re-think that "instant obedience " nonsense. That's just setting  your kid up to be abused.

 

Kynzie, Marcus and Michael need to be evaluated by a specialist to make sure they are safe. Assuming all is well, some regular play therapy would probably be a good idea for a while, as their parents are extremely stressed.    There should also be a long term check in plan.   

Michelle and Jim Bob need some couples counseling from a specialist on how to care for their family when there has been a crime.   Again, probation officers and Domestic Violence agencies can refer them.  I would love for them to get individual counseling, but I don’t know that they are capable of that.   They need some professional help to assist in their daughters’ recovery.

 

The Dugger daughters. Jana, Jill, Jessa,  Jinger and JoyAnna  all need individual counseling with  experienced licensed therapists who work with abuse survivors. They should each have their own therapists. Springdale Ark lists three pages of female therapist so I think they will each be able to find someone. Again they need confidential,  professional help. They also should also be able to decide when and if they want to see their abuser or the adults who failed to protect them. ( Josh,  Michelle, Jim Bob and Mary) In an ideal world these women would get their own home. ( Jill and Jessa already do, obviously)  I don’t think Jana and Jinger are willing to leave the littles however, so that means Michelle Jim Bob and Mary need to move out.  Take over a rental property or something. They can visit, do Bible time or whatever, but if the older girls want to leave then, they can. This doesn’t have to be permanent, but a good year of recovery time should help enormously.  They will also need additional childcare in the TTH, someone who they know and trust to help with the littles while the older girls are trying to take care of themselves.  Jessa and Ben and Derrick and Jill could most likely use some actual couples counselling too. 

 

The other older sons could probably share a therapist. A couple individual sessions, maybe some group therapy. I’m sure this is a painful time for them too.

 

The smaller kids need to be screened by a professional, again a couple individual sessions and some group ones. No one under the age of ten needs to know exactly what happened, they will have a hard time respecting their sisters’ privacy and just need to know that something bad happened. Regularly scheduled follow ups should be scheduled. 

 

The TLC staff could probably use some professional help. I’m sure they are in shock.  And then they all just need to back off and decide whether to do any follow up specials in 6 months or so.  This is not the time to make these decisions.  They need to see if there were any more crimes and how all these individuals recover.   Sorry for the long post,  hopefully I can stop thinking about this now.

Edited May 29, 2015 by Honeycocoa

[Chai]

This whole thing has disgusted me....especially the sweeping it under the rug, psycho analyzing it etc.

 

 

I am a 49 year old female. My sister is 58. I was sexually abused by my sister from when I was 5 until I was 13. I did not know at that young of an age that it was abnormal....the older I got the more I knew it was not normal....I suffered IMMENSELY and literally tortured myself for years and the only people I talked about it with are the people at RAINN and my therapist. Most people think it is brother on sister/vice versa. I never told a soul. I felt like not one person would ever believe that she who was perfect could be capable of such a horrific act. It changed who I was as a person....I always felt like that even as successful I have been...a great wife/mother/business owner...I felt like she robbed me of this huge part of my life. Growing up back in the day ..and I am sure there are many of us around the same age....we would never speak of it. My 85 year old mom lives with her..my mom has Alzheimers but I cannot speak to her or be within her presence...I will punch her in the face...(i've not seen her in a decade) Talk about a horrible mess. 

 

I don't care how much you claim God has forgiven a person...that is peachy keen...what about the victims who are left to fend for themselves....like me...God didn't help me.  I prayed like the good Catholic girl I was...but here I sit....at 49...still stressed, still angry and furious at the people who defend anyone who commits this heinous crime.

I am so sorry you went through that. No one should have to. 

[skippy]

There is a thread on Free Jinger called "Josh and the M word" all about him molesting his sisters, dated October, 2014.  Has this been a "well-known secret"?  I wonder how many people knew about it, yet said nothing to authorities? How many people in the fundie world kept silent because of their desire to stay on Jim Bob's good side?  How many mandated reporters were aware?

[sometimesy]

I posted on the Jana thread that I believe Josh and Anna, Ben and Jessa and Derrick and Jill should not be featured. They are following closely in JIm Bob's footsteps.. Ben's 'preaching in social media'.. Derrick has lost his balls (or we were misled to think that his education meant he might have some). Any spinoff would be a similar Gothard type crap.

 

If Jana or one of the other girls, or even if multiple kids decide they want to test the waters of a different lifestyle I would watch. TLC wouldn't have to tamper with the storyline. It's the same idea as the kids leaving the amish. Except it wouldn't have to be faked. I would love a series where Jana takes sole custody of her siblings, put's them in public school and gets some education and therapy herself, while the family discovers the world. Jinger interviews a paleontologist? haha? I don't know, but that is the only Duggar show I would want to watch. Maybe TLC couldn't do it though. It might have to be a more reputable documentary channel.

[3 is enough]

Honestly, I am sure the FRC will extend their health insurance until after Anna has M4.  It is a "family values" organization, after all, and doesn't need any more bad publicity after hiring Smugs to begin with.

 

When the police officer in South Carolina got fired for shooting the unarmed man the department kept his pregnant wife on the insurance plan until she gave birth.

[farmgal4]

InTouch used a FOID request to obtain the police report legally. I'm saying someone sent the story into InTouch with details. InTouch must have had a good reason to go further and file a FOID request. I can see it as someone that lives near them they got pissed off if MEchelle said something insulting to that person. As an act of retaluation they wrote to various media outlets about Josh. InTouch must have thought we have to run with this once they got the FOID and whatever the informant said rang/read true.

This is the IG of the couple who got the ball rolling: @happy_lil_tantan

[Sew Sumi]

Therapy? Surely you jest! These people don't believe in therapy; they believe any issue can be prayed away and cured (see Mechelle's "bulimia"). 

[Chicklet]

Well surely pretend illnesses can be cured without therapy. I mean I myself had ebola and just by wishing, I was cured, cured I tell you.

[Honeycocoa]

I know they don't . But I'm pretty sure Josh doesn't wan to be a pariah forever. And Michelle and Jim Bob wan the show to keep going n some form. If you want the general public to support you , you need to accept general standards of treatment and behavior This could be an opportunity for some change, who knows?

[JoanArc]

Therapy? Surely you jest! These people don't believe in therapy; they believe any issue can be prayed away and cured (see Mechelle's "bulimia"). 

Let alone intimate exposure to outsiders.

 

 

But I'm pretty sure Josh doesn't wan to be a pariah forever

The next 30 years or so don't look so good for ol' Josh. He'll never do jail time, and never faced 'real' punishment. I'm ok with him renting out crappy properties in Arkansas and living on ramen 3 meals a day. Anna and the kids, not so much.

Edited May 29, 2015 by JoanArc

[Oldernowiser]

Honestly, I am sure the FRC will extend their health insurance until after Anna has M4.  It is a "family values" organization, after all, and doesn't need any more bad publicity after hiring Smugs to begin with.

 

When the police officer in South Carolina got fired for shooting the unarmed man the department kept his pregnant wife on the insurance plan until she gave birth.

Josh could always pay the COBRA insurance premiums until after the baby is born. I'm sure there's enough money around for that.

[abseedee]

Way back in January I posted this article on Pickles FB page:

 

http://radaronline.com/exclusives/2015/01/classmate-slams-michelle-duggar/

 

Someone came  to the page today and pulled up the post and thanked McFerrin. Was she the source for sending info to InTouch? Leaves me wondering.

ohhh!  i posted a couple pages back about a gay couple whose kissing picture was taken in front of the duggar compound.  from reading the article sherri was the one who took the picture of her sister and partner.  in that sister's IG it said something like "we did it sis".pertaining to getting the info to inTouch.

 

eta:  it was there this morning but now her IG page no longer available.  https://instagram.com/p/3FP5P5AjGq/?taken-by=happy_lil_tantan

Edited May 29, 2015 by abseedee

[bigskygirl]

Okay, lets end the who spill the beans speculation, and the ole we should or should not find out the person(s) responsible for the scandal coming to light discussion aka this would or would not hurt the victims spiel. The cat is out of the bag, so focus on the information at hand and not play detective to find out who is behind all of this and why they decided to leak the information to the media. Thank you.

[JoanArc]

ohhh!  i posted a couple pages back about a gay couple whose kissing picture was taken in front of the duggar compound.  from reading the article sherri was the one who took the picture of her sister and partner.  in that sister's IG it said something like "we did it sis".pertaining to getting the info to inTouch.

 

eta:  it was there this morning but now her IG page no longer available.  https://instagram.com/p/3FP5P5AjGq/?taken-by=happy_lil_tantan

I don't think we should spread rumors about who released the info. If they want to come forward, great, if not, great. " We did it sis" can mean ANYTHING.

[HumblePi]

Let alone intimate exposure to outsiders.

 

The next 30 years or so don't look so good for ol' Josh. He'll never do jail time, and never faced 'real' punishment. I'm ok with him renting out crappy properties in Arkansas and living on ramen 3 meals a day. Anna and the kids, not so much.

The single most important thing was taken from Josh, his ambition. He aspired to be an influential lobbyist and eventually politician, like his father. I think it's pretty safe to say that's all nothing more than a pipe dream now. I'm sure none of the Duggar's are going to go hungry since they still have money coming in regularly from the sales of their books. videos, DVD's and future revenues from Jess, Jill or Jana if there's ever a 'reality' show based on their adventures.

[HumblePi]

I posted on the Jana thread that I believe Josh and Anna, Ben and Jessa and Derrick and Jill should not be featured. They are following closely in JIm Bob's footsteps.. Ben's 'preaching in social media'.. Derrick has lost his balls (or we were misled to think that his education meant he might have some). Any spinoff would be a similar Gothard type crap.

 

If Jana or one of the other girls, or even if multiple kids decide they want to test the waters of a different lifestyle I would watch. TLC wouldn't have to tamper with the storyline. It's the same idea as the kids leaving the amish. Except it wouldn't have to be faked. I would love a series where Jana takes sole custody of her siblings, put's them in public school and gets some education and therapy herself, while the family discovers the world. Jinger interviews a paleontologist? haha? I don't know, but that is the only Duggar show I would want to watch. Maybe TLC couldn't do it though. It might have to be a more reputable documentary channel.

If TLC had really done the vetting properly (investigate (someone) thoroughly, especially in order to ensure that they are suitable for a job requiring secrecy, loyalty, or trustworthiness) they may not have gone forward with this reality show. If Jill and Derick or Jessa and Ben are even casually considered by TLC for their own shows that would mean the rest of the Duggar clan would most likely be watching it from their Mac laptops and not on the television set. They wouldn't be in it.

 

I can't even imagine how Ben or Derick could possibly be interesting for more than 3 minutes much less a full hour. It would be like sitting watching mildew form on the basement floor, or waiting for mushrooms to release mold spores into the air. They're both duller than a pan of old dishwater and as smart as a bag of hammers.

[dillpickles]

https://fakejoshduggar.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/wpid-wp-1432830096327.jpeg

Uncanny, don't y'all think?

[bencr]

The Duggars, who reportedly make $45K per episode, have launched their own campaign to “save our series,” encouraging fans to inundate sponsors who have jumped ship.

 

If true, this is at odds with the story supposedly leaked by a family associate that the Duggars are focusing on family and faith and not on their television show. 

 

To be honest, I wouldn't blame them if they were rallying behind the scenes to try to save their show. But why do they feel it is necessary to try to spin the general public by telling us that all that matters to them is faith and family?

Edited May 29, 2015 by bencr

[TaxNerd]

The single most important thing was taken from Josh, his ambition. He aspired to be an influential lobbyist and eventually politician, like his father. I think it's pretty safe to say that's all nothing more than a pipe dream now. I'm sure none of the Duggar's are going to go hungry since they still have money coming in regularly from the sales of their books. videos, DVD's and future revenues from Jess, Jill or Jana if there's ever a 'reality' show based on their adventures.

Well he did get his wish! Rick Santorum and Mile Huckabee both have spoken out about him, and both responses were heavily analyzed in context with their presidential political campaigns.

In fact the first 23 minutes of CNN Tonight were dedicated to the scandal and Josh Duggar. I'm honestly amazed this is still such a big national story a week later.

[HumblePi]

If true, this is at odds with the leaked story that the Duggars are focusing on family and faith and not on their television show. 

 

To be honest, I wouldn't blame them if they were rallying behind the sense to try to save their show. But why do they feel it is necessary to try to spin the general public by telling us that all that matters to them is faith and family?

I think we all need to understand where all of this will lead. Other than the Duggar's losing their show, the community that supports them both local, political and internet fan base will never retreat from the Duggar's, conversely they will vehemently support them. I base this opinion solely on the outcome of the investigation into the claims against their mentor Bill Gothard regarding sexually harassment and molestation accusations. Thirty-four women, came forward claiming Bill Gothard molested them, one of the women was only 16 years old at the time. Bill Gothard resigned his post one week after the investigation commenced as he should have. A mere 3 months later, the investigation which was conducted by "outside legal counsel" concluded "no criminal activity was uncovered, but that Bill Gothard had acted in an "inappropriate manner" so "is not permitted to serve in any counseling, leadership, or Board role within the IBLP ministry".  INAPPROPRIATE MANNER!

 

Did Bil Gothard get preferential treatment? Of course he did. Was the so-called investigation slanted and influenced by an 'outside legal counsel' conducting the investigation?  Of course it was. Should Bill Gothard have been sentenced to prison for life for molesting 34 women?  We all know the answer to that.  My point is that the Duggar's as Gothard did, have very influential and wealthy supporters. People that are politically connected and can pretty much get accomplished whatever it is they want to accomplish. They will not allow any witch hunting of the Duggar's. TLC is very aware of this and it's for this reason they are extremely reluctant to pull the show from their lineup.

[Maharincess]

Me either, I only ever watch this shit accidentally anyways - or in retrospect way after the fact out of morbid curiosity, since the network really circled the drain. We don't have Hobby Lobby where I live, but I've been mentally boycotting them for quite awhile now, along with Chick Fil-A which just appeared in my state. Walmart is easy because - Costco and Target, it just gets hard when I'm boycotting Target.

Ok, my curiosity (nosiness) is getting the best of me. How do you "accidentally" watch something? I need to know this.

I'm not the type to be boycotting products or writing angry emails. This sucks and my heart goes out to the victims here and every victim of this type of horrible crime.

But I'm still going to watch what I want and shop where I want. I don't care what a store owners personal beliefs are or anything like that. If a network has a show I like I'll watch, if a store has something I want, I'm buying it.

I wonder how the family first got word that shit was about to hit the fan. To say I'd like to be a fly on the wall at both Duggar homes is an understatement.

I just hope the girls aren't being blamed. If they aren't outright being blamed I hope they aren't feeling any kind of guilt over this. I'd love to stand outside their house with a bullhorn and chant "It's not your fault" over and over to the girls. I hope somebody is telling them that and telling them often.

I wonder how they could think this would never get out. Is it arrogance? How could they think it would be ok to be hiding a secret this big while pretending to be so good and moral?

When you have a skeleton this huge hiding in your closet why would you think going on reality TV is a good idea?! My mind is seriously stumped by that.

Did they really, truly think that the public would never find out about this?

Edited May 29, 2015 by Maharincess

[NextIteration]

Ok, my curiosity (nosiness) is getting the best of me. How do you "accidentally" watch something? I need to know this.

 

Without intention, meaning, bored surfing when nothing else is on, generally whilst home sick or something similar.

[Marigny]

Santorum was astute enough to state when asked about the Josh Duggar allegations that he was sickened by it and prays for the girls in particular.  “To have gone through that is … just hard to think about.”

 

http://abcnews.go.com/US/rick-santorum-sickened-josh-duggar-molestation-allegations/story?id=31352646

 

And just like that, Santorum just covered his butt on at least one hot button issue that will come up on the trail. 

 

 

The word I've always used to describe the Duggars has been "pernicious", because it has such a nasty ring to it.  

 

Anyway, I wonder if Josh has made it back to the compound, and if so, if Clown Car put an unholy beat-down on him the minute he walked through the door. 

 

Clown Car blaming her precious, sweet blessing Josh? Not in a million years. 

 

Even Funny or Die presented a more accurate interpretation of what happened than Huckabee.

http://www.funnyordie.com/topic/duggars

 

Excuse me while I go in the prayer closet and repent for laughing. 

 

On a serious note, I don't at all subscribe to the notion that the show shouldn't be cancelled because it would be punishing the other kids. That's BS. This is a show that has been on for years and, if some of that money wasn't saved or invested properly, there is no one to blame but JB & Mullet. We can't sit here and look at this like we would some random bloke with a few kids getting fired from his 9 to 5 and having to rely temporarily on public assistance. That show is not the only way to make a living. As far as the kids not having any source of income outside of the show, it is ultimately their parent's fault for not equipping them with the skills necessary to have a Plan B through Z should the bottom fall out of Plan A. JB/Mullet are grown enough to find another way to feed the 50-11 mouths that THEY chose to bring into this world.

[Churchhoney]

If true, this is at odds with the story supposedly leaked by a family associate that the Duggars are focusing on family and faith and not on their television show. 

 

To be honest, I wouldn't blame them if they were rallying behind the scenes to try to save their show. But why do they feel it is necessary to try to spin the general public by telling us that all that matters to them is faith and family?

 

Because trying to pull wool over people's eyes has been JimBob's and Michelle's main occupation for years now?

 

But I'm sure they see it as good old lying for God.

[3 is enough]

 

I would love a series where Jana takes sole custody of her siblings, put's them in public school and gets some education and therapy herself, while the family discovers the world.

While I do agree that Jana is a better mother to those kids than Michelle ever could hope to be, the thought that a single, poorly educated, sheltered, 25 year old should be responsible for raising the boatload of siblings her irresponsible parents continued to pop out is just wrong to me.  They aren't her kids.  I always thought the amount of responsibility the older girls had shoved on them was criminal, and knowing what I do today I find it a million times more reprehensible.

[Chai]

Autumnh - Sending many hugs and much peace your way - what you've endured is heartbreaking, and I don't blame you a bit - NOT ONE - for your feelings toward your sister and mother. I had a similar situation with my sister and mom, and even though they're both gone now, if they came back the first thing I'd do is scream bloody murder at them and probably give them a full-face smack. 

 

Sometimes forgiveness just isn't possible. Or realistic. Or deserved. And I don't feel that I'm psychologically blocked or damaged because I've chosen to not just "let it go".  Owning my anger and living my life well is empowering - I'm not consumed by it, but it gives me a sense of strength that I was able to go through what I did and come out clean and free on the other end. 

 

If the girls choose not to actually (as opposed to fake TV crap) forgive Josh and that's what's best for them then more power too them. Their path of healing is their own, and whatever route they take I fully support. 

That was the most compassionate post I have read about those who have gone through this unspeakable horror.  I am so sorry you had to.

[bencr]

When you have a skeleton this huge hiding in your closet why would you think going on reality TV is a good idea?! My mind is seriously stumped by that.

Did they really, truly think that the public would never find out about this?

 

I'd like to take a stab at your obviously rhetorical question. Of course, this is all speculation on my part.

 

When the show first began (and didn't it begin with just a few specials?), the Duggars probably thought that it would be a good forum for them to showcase their particular brand of religion, that it would enhance their reputation in the community, and that very few people would watch it anyway. Therefore, the risk of this big secret being exposed was minimal.

 

Then, lo and behold, the show becomes something of a success. Now the Duggars have a vast platform on which to preach as well as a lot of money coming in. Now the decision to continue shifts to a risk/reward issue. Specifically, what are the odds this secret will emerge balanced against the rewards (monetary and otherwise) of this platform? Who knows, maybe they believed God would shield their secret.

 

My guess is the Duggars spun the wheel, made a few million bucks, spread the word, and then this Josh thing happens.

 

That said, I think they could have mitigated the consequences if they had been less outspoken with regard to judging other people's sex lives. When they made the decision to go forward with the show, that's a compromise they should have made.

Edited May 29, 2015 by bencr

[SometimesBites]

I actually hope they do get exposed, that way the girls can get some control over this, even if via a lawsuit.

Disagree. Until and unless the girls leave the strictures of their extreme belief system, they have control over NOTHING. As an escapee of fundamental Christianity, there is no way to overemphasize how thoroughly locked-in they are. Without a massive paradigm shift, they will do what the men in their lives tell them to do. If you see them bringing a lawsuit now, it will be because that's what they were instructed to do.

[Wellfleet]

I think we'll finally find out what was and was not comped, which is a frequent source of discussion here.

 

I did read an article that said TLC comped Josh&Anna's Tokyo hotel room, which ran $3k/night. (That's about right for Tokyo)

 

Their "seasons" seem longer than other TLC shows too. I guessing The Little Couple was only 6 or 8 weeks - before you know it their season finale is being promoted etc - but it seems like 19 Kids was 10-12 weeks. Or is it just my imagination?

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

Honestly, I am sure the FRC will extend their health insurance until after Anna has M4. It is a "family values" organization, after all, and doesn't need any more bad publicity after hiring Smugs to begin with.

When the police officer in South Carolina got fired for shooting the unarmed man the department kept his pregnant wife on the insurance plan until she gave birth.

I'd like to think that's true and the FRC would continue to cover Anna through the birth & the baby, but it often seems as though organizations that scream to the heavens about "family values" really don't do much to help women and children. Edited May 29, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[Marigny]

Their "seasons" seem longer than other TLC shows too. I guessing The Little Couple was only 6 or 8 weeks - before you know it their season finale is being promoted etc - but it seems like 19 Kids was 10-12 weeks. Or is it just my imagination?

It's not just you. I noticed it too. 

[Mrsjumbo]

And just like that, Santorum just covered his butt on at least one hot button issue that will come up on the trail.

Clown Car blaming her precious, sweet blessing Josh? Not in a million years.

Excuse me while I go in the prayer closet and repent for laughing.

On a serious note, I don't at all subscribe to the notion that the show shouldn't be cancelled because it would be punishing the other kids. That's BS. This is a show that has been on for years and, if some of that money wasn't saved or invested properly, there is no one to blame but JB & Mullet. We can't sit here and look at this like we would some random bloke with a few kids getting fired from his 9 to 5 and having to rely temporarily on public assistance. That show is not the only way to make a living. As far as the kids not having any source of income outside of the show, it is ultimately their parent's fault for not equipping them with the skills necessary to have a Plan B through Z should the bottom fall out of Plan A. JB/Mullet are grown enough to find another way to feed the 50-11 mouths that THEY chose to bring into this world.

[Wellfleet]

Adding  my 2 cents to the swarm. I tried to watch the Digging In episode and only lasted 10 minutes. It was just so very creepy .  There’s nothing entertaining about wondering who committed what crime against who when.  As a retired mental health professional I should have a higher tolerance than this, but no one is paying me, so I’m not observing.  I’ve been thinking about this way too much, so in trying to be constructive I made up a treatment plan.

 

Please note this is all very much based on the idea that nothing has happened in the past 12 years and that all crimes were accounted for in the police report.  If it turns out there’s more ( please God, no)  all bets are off.

 

Josh needs to understand that if he ever wants any credibility he needs to seek experienced, professional help from a licensed mental health professional.   Prayer, apology and remodeling just doesn’t cut it in the real world and I think Josh does like living in the real word.   There are therapists who work with offenders.  Local probation officers and domestic violence agencies can refer him. I don’t think he needs an inpatient program at this point. But he needs to commit to some serious treatment.   He needs to commit some form of restitution.  This is how we deal with crimes in this society, is via money.  Funds  should be set up for the victims and Josh  makes regular payments.  The victims can do whatever they want with the money.  Support a charity or go to Vegas, I don’t care.  Something along the lines of property management seems like a good “job “ for Josh. Or a prison ministry.  Clearly fundraising and politics are over.  He and his family need to come up with a policy whereby he never spends the night in a house with women and children other that his immediate family.  If some family visits them, or they travel, he stays in a hotel. No one should ever have to worry about sleeping in the same house with him again.    

  

Anna needs her own therapist.  An experienced, licensed  professional who works with  offender families. She needs someone confidential to talk to who can help her through this crisis. She also needs reliable child care.  It’s not fair to ask Mackenzie to watch the boys while mommy goes in her room to cry for three hours.  And she needs to seriously re-think that "instant obedience " nonsense. That's just setting  your kid up to be abused.

 

Kynzie, Marcus and Michael need to be evaluated by a specialist to make sure they are safe. Assuming all is well, some regular play therapy would probably be a good idea for a while, as their parents are extremely stressed.    There should also be a long term check in plan.   

Michelle and Jim Bob need some couples counseling from a specialist on how to care for their family when there has been a crime.   Again, probation officers and Domestic Violence agencies can refer them.  I would love for them to get individual counseling, but I don’t know that they are capable of that.   They need some professional help to assist in their daughters’ recovery.

 

The Dugger daughters. Jana, Jill, Jessa,  Jinger and JoyAnna  all need individual counseling with  experienced licensed therapists who work with abuse survivors. They should each have their own therapists. Springdale Ark lists three pages of female therapist so I think they will each be able to find someone. Again they need confidential,  professional help. They also should also be able to decide when and if they want to see their abuser or the adults who failed to protect them. ( Josh,  Michelle, Jim Bob and Mary) In an ideal world these women would get their own home. ( Jill and Jessa already do, obviously)  I don’t think Jana and Jinger are willing to leave the littles however, so that means Michelle Jim Bob and Mary need to move out.  Take over a rental property or something. They can visit, do Bible time or whatever, but if the older girls want to leave then, they can. This doesn’t have to be permanent, but a good year of recovery time should help enormously.  They will also need additional childcare in the TTH, someone who they know and trust to help with the littles while the older girls are trying to take care of themselves.  Jessa and Ben and Derrick and Jill could most likely use some actual couples counselling too. 

 

The other older sons could probably share a therapist. A couple individual sessions, maybe some group therapy. I’m sure this is a painful time for them too.

 

The smaller kids need to be screened by a professional, again a couple individual sessions and some group ones. No one under the age of ten needs to know exactly what happened, they will have a hard time respecting their sisters’ privacy and just need to know that something bad happened. Regularly scheduled follow ups should be scheduled. 

 

The TLC staff could probably use some professional help. I’m sure they are in shock.  And then they all just need to back off and decide whether to do any follow up specials in 6 months or so.  This is not the time to make these decisions.  They need to see if there were any more crimes and how all these individuals recover.   Sorry for the long post,  hopefully I can stop thinking about this now.

 

Honeycocoa - one of the 5 best posts I've read here in the last week, and I have read a boatload of really excellent posts in the last week. From your keyboard to God's ears... 

[Mrsjumbo]

I totally agree. When they first signed on, I'm sure they did not assume the show would last this many years. A normal person would have invested that money. Jb might act stupid but i don't think he's stupid about money. They will be fine living off of that money for awhile. And shame on them if they never thought about the possibility of cancellation & didn't think of a plan b.

[bencr]

Just because the show goes off the air (if it does) doesn't mean the Duggar's earning potential dries up. I'm sure they're viewed quite heroically by the fundamentalist community, and they will be very much in demand for speaking and other appearances.

[neural-plasticity]

Here's my two cents on the show coming back, whether it be a spin off with the girls or not;

1.) If Josh was the only one to blame for this situation, I would be okay with TLC taking him off and keeping everyone else. But honestly, the main issue I have is with how JB and Mechelle handled the situation. it absolutely disgusts me. they're the ones I ESPECIALLY don't want to see and I will not watch another episode because of them.

2.) just like a lot of you, I enjoyed watching the show, getting to know the kids, and watching them grow up. I've cried numerous times during the show (when Josie was born and everyone visited her, when their grandpa died, etc.). I also felt this same way about John and Kate plus 8. when they made the announcement they were taking a break from the show I had NO idea what to do with myself (as embarrassing as that is to admit.... LOL). However, I've survived. I don't even take the time to watch Kate plus 8, even though I loved the kids. I think you guys would also be surprised at how quickly you can move on from this show as well.

it's just not worth giving the Duggars anymore money. the kids need to understand that in the real world you have to work normal jobs to afford your bills, food, kids, etc.

[msblossom]

Here's my two cents on the show coming back, whether it be a spin off with the girls or not;

1.) If Josh was the only one to blame for this situation, I would be okay with TLC taking him off and keeping everyone else. But honestly, the main issue I have is with how JB and Mechelle handled the situation. it absolutely disgusts me. they're the ones I ESPECIALLY don't want to see and I will not watch another episode because of them.

2.) just like a lot of you, I enjoyed watching the show, getting to know the kids, and watching them grow up. I've cried numerous times during the show (when Josie was born and everyone visited her, when their grandpa died, etc.). I also felt this same way about John and Kate plus 8. when they made the announcement they were taking a break from the show I had NO idea what to do with myself (as embarrassing as that is to admit.... LOL). However, I've survived. I don't even take the time to watch Kate plus 8, even though I loved the kids. I think you guys would also be surprised at how quickly you can move on from this show as well.

it's just not worth giving the Duggars anymore money. the kids need to understand that in the real world you have to work normal jobs to afford your bills, food, kids, etc.

I basically attempted to post everything you just said and then my iPad died, when I recharged it I decided it wasn't worth the effort, so thank you for saying exactly what I wanted to say yesterday. Lol, about J & K plus 8!

[cmr2014]

I agree with you, neural-plasticity. The reality is that none of the Duggars have been living in reality for a very long time. Personally, I think that their beliefs share a lot in common with the prosperity doctrine churches. I think that the children believe that if you pray enough, God rewards you with things: a reality show, world travel, and endless Starbucks.

 

None of them have any experience in doing anything. They don't get up in the morning, they sort of wander around and do their "school work" whenever, eat when they're hungry, and go to sleep when they choose. There is no sign that any of them (with the possible exception of JD and Jana) have any sort of a work ethic, or any ability to see a project through to completion.

 

And the example that they have in Josh -- who was given a high paying job despite having no education or experience -- is simply not realistic.

 

And while I enjoy snarking on the show, that's not a reason to keep it on the air. These are real people -- and none of the children asked for this. For all the money that they have made, the kids have lost so much: limited parental affection, no real friends, no real education, no real skills training, etc. With the show canceled, and Josh out of a job, they might learn at least one useful life lesson: it takes more than prayer and sanctimonious posturing to make a living.

Edited May 29, 2015 by cmr2014

[Honeycocoa]

Thank you Wellfleet. I'm embarrassed of how much I've been thinking about the Duggers. ( and how long it took me to write that post). I worry about Josh harming himself. Not that I'm all that concerned about him at the moment, but that would be terrible for Anna and the kids. I worry about Jill  getting depressed - lack of sleep , new baby and this hideousness. I'm concerned about Jessa's pregnancy. I think we all want the girls and the other sons to  get better some how. Clearly prayer alone is not going to cut it. Honestly,  if this isn't t a message from God that your lifestyle isn't working out, I don't know what is.  If they want conventional people to listen to them, they need to try conventional methods sometimes.  This could be an opportunity for positive change.  I hope they don't just double down on the same old,  same old and make it worse.

 

Autumnj, Chai and Others thank you for sharing. I hope this all isn't too triggering and you are taking good care of yourselves.  I've never believed the "you have to forgive" theory of healing.  You sound like capable people with good resources, but just in case,  the book I used to recommend for women is The Courage to Heal by Bass and Davis ( and Victims No Longer by Lew for men)  I wish I could have a few copies airlifted to the TTH,  Jessa and Jill.  sigh...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Their "seasons" seem longer than other TLC shows too. I guessing The Little Couple was only 6 or 8 weeks - before you know it their season finale is being promoted etc - but it seems like 19 Kids was 10-12 weeks. Or is it just my imagination?

According to wikipedia The Little Couple has had seasons with as many as 35 episodes (S5) and as few as 6 episodes (S7), but they usually had 14-19 episodes. 19 Kids and Counting has had as few as 10 episodes (S1) and as many as 38 episodes (S4) but most seasons it was between 20-30 episodes.

[Darknight]

I think JimChelle is living in fundie land. They believed the show was a gift from God. They used the show for their political views. Like the stupid roe vs wade tshirts they made their kids wear. Then they try to take away other people's rights. So un christ like.

I hate thumpers. They're so ignorant.and these people are grown ass adults. What are they teaching their kids by acting like this. I hope people realize reality tv isn't reality it's an illusion. The duggars did a good job sucking people into their lifestyle. Perfect well behaved children who don't disobeyed on the outside and on the inside lots of secrets

[becca3891]

Josh states that "I confessed to my parents"  NO, he didn't confess, one of the girls went to the parents, THEN he told them what happened, which may or may not have been 100% factual. I realize this is just semantics, but he leads people to believe that he, overcome with remorse, went to confess to JB and Michelle.  Because the statement has to paint him in the best light possible, and victims be damned.

It brings to mind the old idea of being very, very sorry -- that you were caught. They were taught from a young age to confess their sexual failings to their parents. Thoughts only, they assumed! This was on such a greater scale than tempting thoughts that it's mind boggling, and yet he never once even told them he was tempted. He's a big giant phony and was never truly sorry. It's all about him and he would have gone on with the behavior escalating had he not been told on, and then convinced that it would ruin HIS life if he didn't stop.

 

I'm surprised no media outlets are stalking Josh especially now that we all think they are moving out of Maryland.

[snip}

Edited May 29, 2015 by bigskygirl
Talking about watching Josh's family

[CalamitysChild]

Not sure if this is the appropriate thread but, Wyndham Hotels responded a few minutes ago to a boycott tweet someone tagged me in and stated, "We share your concerns and have removed our ad from “19 Kids and Counting” which was part of a larger sponsorship with TLC."

Dropping like flies.

 

ETA: Macy's just responded, they're dropping ad support as well. I feel like that's a big one.

Edited May 29, 2015 by CalamitysChild