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Chris Knight

The Seewalds: Benessa and The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Name... & Henry

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Plus not all of the couples will consummate the marriage that very night.  Some of them wait a few days to a few months. 

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All good points. 

I think what weirdos me out about this no-physical-contact-before-marriage thing is that it's strangely public for such a personal act.  Like, when I had my first kiss, it was private and it was intimate.  It wasn't something for everyone to gawk and hoot about.  With the forced chastity and celibacy, it almost feels like everyone in attendance could be perving out over knowing that, as they sip their grape juice and eat cake, Jill and Derek are playing hide the salami.  Sure.  Some of that happens at every wedding, but Josh's wedding was sort of uncomfortable what with the Legos and books and pervy grins/hints about the wedding night.  I think it's a little odd that Jim Bob and Michelle throw their sex life and PDA in everyone's face, but hell will freeze over if one of their kids has a front hug or holds hands before a ring is put on her finger.  For such modest people, sex seems to drive most of their decisions and purposes in life.  :)

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I don't know why they think the no touching, hand-holding or kissing is a way to tame the sexual desire.  It increases it, and leaves it in the consciousness 100% of the time.  Holding hands should be a more fun, casual kind of thing, but they make it into a big deal that it doesn't need to be.

 

I still don't see how Michelle turned from a fun high school girl who did athletic activities, and who had fun with people, into Mrs Fundy Shill.  Maybe people made her feel so guilty over the miscarriage she suffered many years ago, with the subsequent nervous breakdown, did it.  BTW I don't know where her breakdown story is from, unless it's from her book (one of them) which of course I didn't read.

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If Ben and Jessa do get married, I'm sure there will be a lot of lusty excitement leading up to the wedding night, and then . . . All over in 2 minutes.

Edited by DangerousMinds
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It will be overly very quickly. He may not even be able to last to consummate the first time. Are you telling me that none of you are jealous at least a little bit. I had been with my husband sexually for 3 years before we married and I was too tired to even be interested in the wedding night sex. It was kind of like.....so what, no big deal. For them it will be and I am somewhat envious.

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For me, it wouldn't be that this is the first time we're alone and we're going to have sex; it would be, "millions of people will know exactly when I lost my virginity!"

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I'm fine with the wedding night being the first for sex, my hesitation is the lack if any intimacy, like they will have never even talked privately, held hands, kissed...but it's also not my decision to make either, so to each their own.

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In many ways, it's not Jessa's decision either, unfortunately.  

 

If they want to hold off on sex before marriage, I'm all for that.  But there's nothing wrong with a private conversation here or there.  

 

 

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In many ways, it's not Jessa's decision either, unfortunately.

 

 

THIS! This is my main problem with it. It should be Jessa's decision if she wants to wait until marriage, if she wants to save kissing and all that stuff until marriage that's great! If she wants to hold hands, kiss or whatever it should be her choice. Not her parents. Not anyone else's. I'd happily support which ever one she chose as long as Jessa's is the one making the decision. 

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I agree, it should be between them. A decision the couple makes. I just think it would be exciting to wait for the wedding.

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It will be overly very quickly. He may not even be able to last to consummate the first time. Are you telling me that none of you are jealous at least a little bit. I had been with my husband sexually for 3 years before we married and I was too tired to even be interested in the wedding night sex. It was kind of like.....so what, no big deal. For them it will be and I am somewhat envious.

I see your point and respect your opinion.  To answer your question: No. I'm not even the slightest bit jealous.  I was a virgin (as far as full blown, penetrative sex goes).  We dated for a year and then we're separated by military service for another 18 months before our wedding.  Like I said, if your virginity holds some moral value to you, then do what you want.  But, despite not going all the way before our wedding night, we had a ton of fun getting to know each other physically, in other ways, and that actually added to our excitement.  I knew, because we'd had physical intimacies, that we were sexually compatible.  There was no awkwardness or embarrassment, because we had seen each other's bits and pieces and, even without full coitus, we knew how to press the right buttons.  My fear for the Duggar girls, and boys, is that sex and physical desires are so verboten, that they may have a tough time seeing it as something that should be fun.  These are people who think knees are sexual!  Displaying bare shoulders, legs, and a woman's deccoletage are seen as sinful.  So sinful and enticing, stirring up "desires which cannot be righteously fulfilled", that they have a code word to help the family look away!  Coming from that mindset to "time to sex" in a day has to come with some uncertainty.  They already see sex as a means to an end (pregnancy) and they are repeatedly reminded that any desire, outside of marriage, is adultery!  What's wrong with holding hands? What's sinful about kissing or touch?  The answer they give is Biblical Blue Balls (I.e., if you can't have full release and create life, then those physical acts or desires are sinful).  That's just unnecessary to me.   It's potentially damaging.  I am not, as I said, advocating wanton, unbridled premarital orgies.  I am just saying that the level of chastity at play here is really over protective and warped.  Add that to Jim Bob and Michelle publicly taunting and displaying these physical acts that are so forbidden and you get a strange result.  

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Jill didn't find Derick on her own. Jim Bob, her father, introduced them. Derick was his prayer partner via phone and internet for a year and JB thought they would hit it off and suggested that they call each other and "meet". Sorry to say, "pops" was the matchmaker there.

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At least Jim Bob as matchmaker is what they are telling us.  That's the narrative they want to put forth.  That it is 100% factually accurate is what not everyone believes.

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Was it Jinger that said it was first time being a chaperone or am I remembering something wrong? Because I was just watching the episode where Anna and Josh were just engaged and Jinger was a chaperone. IMHO I don't think Jessa and Ben would be courting if they didn't have too. Possibly they would date and kiss and etc. but they don't seem too serious about each other , since courting means marriage is usually soon to come.

Edited by Piecesofme

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Was it Jinger that said it was first time being a chaperone or am I remembering something wrong? Because I was just watching the episode where Anna and Josh were just engaged and Jinger was a chaperone. IMHO I don't think Jessa and Ben would be courting if they didn't have too. Possibly they would date and kiss and etc. but they don't seem too serious about each other , since courting means marriage is usually soon to come.

There was  a strange bit of wordplay going on.  Watching the episode, they claimed that Anna and Josh used Anna's siblings as chaperones...and seemed to imply that the GIRL'S family had that obligation to protect her reputation and virtue.  We all saw the Duggar kids championing John and Anna, but I do recall that she also brought Suz and Priscilla.  

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Seems like Jessa is just sitting waiting and waiting for Bin to ask her to be his wife. Sadly she is imagining it all in her head and I hope she isn't disappointed because Bin is a baby that can't properly support her. She should have moved on a long time ago instead of wasting her time with him.

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Seems like Jessa is just sitting waiting and waiting for Bin to ask her to be his wife. Sadly she is imagining it all in her head and I hope she isn't disappointed because Bin is a baby that can't properly support her. She should have moved on a long time ago instead of wasting her time with him.

I completely agree. It would be one thing if 'Bin' came from a family with a solid business he could immediately work for and make a decent living (I had several friends in evil public school that went this route after high school rather than pursuing college and they are doing great), but the kid has nothing going for him at this point in time. He also doesn't seem that bright (sorry to be mean, but boyfriend doesn't catch on quickly) so I don't know what kind of degree he can realistically get that could support a family. 

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 He also doesn't seem that bright (sorry to be mean, but boyfriend doesn't catch on quickly) so I don't know what kind of degree he can realistically get that could support a family. 

I totally agree as well.  That's why I think there is some scheme going on here that Bin's parents are trying to get him in on the Duggar Dynasty so that he might be able to come away with some sort of job to somehow supprt himself and his potential family.

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They're spelling it that way because some people from the northern climbs and elsewhere hear them saying the name as "Bin" instead of "Ben."  I personally hear no difference between those two, but I'm from Kansas/Oklahoma where we don't differentiate those sounds, just like Arkansas and much of the South.  It's the "pen/pin" difference that linguists discuss.

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I've heard both pronunciations in my neck of the woods (far edge of the east midwest), but I personally say Ben, not Bin. I try to put '' to distinguish when I'm being facetious. 

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Plus not all of the couples will consummate the marriage that very night.  Some of them wait a few days to a few months. 

 

This. I actually feel like this is more common than people want to admit.

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Unless Ben and Jessa are now engaged and we don't know it yet, I'm thinking perhaps Ben has asked JB for permission to get engaged and that JB said no, not until Ben can support Jessa with a good enough job. So they will continue to court while Ben tries to get a career going. It's a possibility.

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Didn't both Boob AND Michelle work when they were young and just starting out? Maybe Jessa should get off her ass and do something if she truly wants to get married to Bin. At one point it was mentioned that he was taking college courses. A BA degree takes four years!

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There are a few associate degrees he could get in two years if he was actually motivated. Many community colleges offer two year degrees in nursing and many hospitals will pay for these nurses to get their full BS while working. 

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Whoa!  The recent promos of Jessa show her with bangs and her hair is flat, looks more current and she is HOT!  That girl is seriously good looking!  Ben can hardly contain himself... 

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There are a few associate degrees he could get in two years if he was actually motivated. Many community colleges offer two year degrees in nursing and many hospitals will pay for these nurses to get their full BS while working. 

The thought of Ben/Binny boy becoming a nurse scares the hell out of me. I could imagine a pregnant woman coming in with serious problems, and she has to make a decision to save her own life or the baby's life. Ben would be going into his anti-abortion spiel before anyone said Boo!!! He does not have the maturity to deal with patients at their worse.

 

Oops...meant to say does not have the maturity... My cold is affecting my brain  *lol*

Edited by bigskygirl

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The thought of Ben/Binny boy becoming a nurse scares the hell out of me. I could imagine a pregnant woman coming in with serious problems, and she has to make a decision to save her own life or the baby's life. Ben would be going into his anti-abortion spiel before anyone said Boo!!! He does have the maturity to deal with patients at their worse.

I wholeheartedly agree. The only hospital he could work for that would align with his beliefs would be a Catholic hospital (even then, proselytizing to patients is a no-no at any hospital). If Ben ever did become a nurse (not likely because that's women's work after all!) he'd probably be put in the geriatric unit because they need people to lift the patients. He'd also be highly coveted at a hospital that takes care of injured male prisoners. 

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He is (or was as of this past semester) taking business courses at a local CC near his home, and that the college offers an Associates' program. That said, it's rumored that he moved out of the family home not long ago and plans to transfer to the University of Arkansas in the fall. Take that FWIW; we'll see if he's spotted there.

 

That said, if he's transferring to a 4 year school, this could be the longest fundie courtship on record. Most of these people don't waste any time getting on to engagement and the altar. The only exception is Michael Bates and her boyfriend, but that's because he's in some Gothard program that doesn't allow its students to be in relationships (I guess engaged or married) while matriculating. I guess courtship is okay, but Kelly has said no engagement until he finishes in November. But with them, at least there's an end in sight; can't say the same for Benessa, or is that Binessa?

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I keep thinking that Jim Bob will make Jessa and Ben wait until after Jill's wedding, so he can get as much milage out of these courtships and parlay it into a new season. Honestly, Jim Bob can make a big deal about Ben providing for Jessa when he will just probably employ him somewhere. Aren't Jill and Derrick getting one of Jim Bob's houses? 

 

Unpopular opinion but I prefer Jessa and Ben to Jill and Derrick, mainly because Jill acts like a tween girl with her first boyfriend. It is grating to me. I prefer Jessa's slighty snarky attitude and how she would rather do anything else than have her courtship be on camera. I wouldn't want my first boyfriend on camera and I was way younger than Jessa. 

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mainly because Jill acts like a tween girl with her first boyfriend

In reality this is the truth regardless of her actual age.

 

I liked that Jessa said she didn't want to try on wedding dresses until she was engaged. Too bad Jill's was product placement.

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I thought I heard several times that the couple sets their limits in terms of physical contact.  But they all seem to follow the same pattern.  And I think that some of their restrictions will make for an awkward wedding night.  Jessa seems much more mature than Ben.  I just don't get the attraction.  But then I remind myself that we only see a small portion of their lives and then only what they and TLC want us to see.  Maybe Jill is a bit childish in her raptures over Derick, but I honestly think they have a better chance at marriage than Jessa and Ben.  Neither Jessa nor Ben have real jobs or a decent education.  How the heck are they going to lives?  Off TLC residuals?

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My opinion was and still is that the couples themselves absolutely DON'T set their own physical limits. For me, it was confirmed when Jill and Derick "full hugged" at th airport. Michelle and Jim Bob had the perfect opportunity to clarify the issue by simply saying, "well, I guess they decided to change their courtship boundaries"; but they didn't say anything like that, did they. Michelle said that they were NOT going to do that again..Jim Bob also seemed to "have to make an allowance" for them and squirmed, like Michelle. I hope they never felt more foolish than they felt that moment. They make genuine affection between two people dirty. How stupidly "over the top they are". Don't know why they matched up Jessa with Ben...he is younger than Jessa, therefore a few years behind her in HIS professional preparedness. I can't fault the kid for being only 19 and where he is in life,,,,it's where he should be, he had just graduated high school and was a freshman in community college. Jessa, and Ben's ages don't match up FOR EACH OTHER...he's be more suited for Joy Anna,, who has a few years to wait around and "side hug" and let Ben grow up a bit and prepare himself in about 3-4 years. Joy would be about 19, he 22...and graduated, from something. Jessa seems to have been coached to appear more emotional about Ben and she isn't a good actress, IMO, as she isn't herself trying to gush over roses, etc. Jessa would be more suited for someone a little older than her who can take her on right away, as is their custom.

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I disagree that Jessa is less into her courtship than Jill. She just has a different way of expressing it. She's posting selfies with Bin under the duggarfam IG account on almost a daily basis. Bin posted one yesterday, but the ratio is probably about 5:1 in favor of Jessa. She obviously enjoys the attention from the leghumpers, as evidenced when the account thanked the fans for 100k followers a few days ago.

 

She obviously loves the way she looks and the adulation she gets, and obviously ties this in with the relationship with Bin. That said, I don't see them lasting, at all. She's going to have to face real life one of these days, and when she does it won't be pretty.

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It seems to me that no matter what Jessa's real life turns out to be, it's going to be easy. She's cute and she has money. She lacks an education, but with looks and money is an education totally needful?

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Does she really have money? Will Boob gift her a huge rental house like he did with Jerick? And once she starts shooting out the kids, who's going to care about her looks? No one really cares about Anna's, other than to comment on her weight. Sure, Bin will likely be put to work for Boob, but let's face it, aside form the TLC checks and perks, Smuggar really wasn't living that large before he landed the FRC gig. And he's the Duggar Golden Boy.

 

I hope Boob gives Jessa the money she's earned by doing this show, but I see him doing something to tether her to the dog and pony show (ie. Bin working for him) rather than giving her the means to set her free.

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It seems to me that no matter what Jessa's real life turns out to be, it's going to be easy. She's cute and she has money. She lacks an education, but with looks and money is an education totally needful?

Looks don't always get you very far in life.

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Jessa is a pretty young woman but there are lots of attractive 22 year olds. That beauty will fade quickly after 3-4 kids back to back. There's no way she's going to get the kind of help that Michelle has been getting. I don't see Ben as a super helpful parent. She's kind of a snot but I feel sorry for her.

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Hopefully not off topic, but the question keeps coming up as to the kids 18 and over being paid their own salaries. No, they are not. It's one paycheck to the Duggar family, though when Grandma (Mary) Duggar and Amy Duggar appear, they are paid separately as well as Josh and Anna's appearances command a separate paycheck. You can see this at the bottom of the credits when they appear (thanks to Josh and Anna Duggar family, or Mary Duggar, etc). Other TLC families have confirmed this in interviews , the one paycheck per family deal. After Jill and Derrick marry, they too will be able to command their own paycheck. In the meantime, for the kids still living at home, it's up to Jim Bob as to how much money he allows them to have..I suspect it might not be very much until such time as they are ready to marry and leave home.

 

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I don't think Smuganna were able to negotiate their own paycheck until the lead-up to Mack's birth (and of course, 1st Grandduggar VSE). I don't think Famy has ever been paid, until she got the special, that is. 

 

I don't think any Duggar spawn couple is going to get a paycheck until they can provide a viable storyline (family business?) or pop out more Grand Duggars. We've already seen life as a Young Fundie Couple with little kids with Smuganna (including more than a few contrived storylines...ZOMG 85 family members are coming in 15 minutes rather than two days!!!!1111).

 

Overkill will kill ratings.

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I'm from Chicago so when they say Ben I hear Bin hence the name I call him.

 

I think Jessa needed a story line and somehow Bin was there to provide one. I think Jessa wanted a boyfriend and Bin is it for now. If they haven't gotten engaged already then it's never going to happen. It doesn't fit into other fundie courtships at all.

 

Biin can be sold as a "Godly man" but he is nothing but a kid.....that wants to jump Jessa's bones. Jessa is loving the attention but Boob isn't going to sell her out to some kid with no money. Boob knows he will get way too much backlash if he does.

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I thought I heard several times that the couple sets their limits in terms of physical contact.

 

I think Michelle and Jim Bob have said that- but Michelle's reaction to Jill/Derrick hugging show that it is clearly not true.  Jill and Derrick didn't get to decide what contact was okay, or else, the decision for them to do that would have been left up to them.   Pretty much the same thing with their hand holding at their engagement announcement. Hand holding clearly meant engaged- not "courting couple set their limit and decided they could hold hands".

 

Michelle is controlling all this.  (And perhaps Jim Bob- but the way he let Jill/Derrick squeeze together in the rickshaw in Nepal was SO different than the way Michelle inserted herself between Ben and Jessa; it makes me think the 'purity' obsession is Michelle's.)

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My comment is regarding the ongoing conversation about paychecks and finances.

Wouldn't  Jana, Jessa, Jill, and Jinger all make money from the books they've written? Unless TLC owns the rights to that book, these girls will enter into a relationship with a huge chunk of cash. If they're all over the age of 18 then that money belongs to them not Jim Bob.

 

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If they're all over the age of 18 then that money belongs to them not Jim Bob.

 

It certainly depends on how the contracts were written.

I hope the girls get that money; but in a patriarchal culture, I don't think we can assume this was done a "normal" way.

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