S03.E13: Don't Look Back

[HalcyonDays]

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Episode synopsis: The fight for America comes to an end; Chandler faces a challenge that could change his life forever.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Ummm ..... how did the NJ radar completely miss that 2nd missile ?  The radar on the Arleigh Burke-classe destroyers is good for up to nearly 200 miles, how the hell did that drone manage to "sneak up" and fire those missiles from nearly point blank range completely undetected ?  Oh that's right, plot-convenient invisibility cloak.

All the coordinated team attacks took place at night, but Cobra team hung around in that garage at the St. Louis Whitehouse until the next day.  WTF ?

So what happened to Kara's daughter and mother ?  They were staying with Grandpa Chandler and the kids, did Shaw's people kill them too ?  Oh there they are -- how come they weren't take by Shaw's mean

Nooooooooooooooooo !!!!!!!  They killed off Tex.  Why ?

I think Chandler killed Shaw just to shut her up, but it was probably due to threatening his children, killing Grandpa and Tex.

Something doesn't jive about Shaw's backstory -- I thought she was with then Mayor Oliver in St. Louis before the NJ sailed up the Mississippi, but it turns out she was some ruthless killer who was just climbing the ladder of power.

They were giving the show 'Revolution' a run for its money with the travel shenanigans this episode.  Sure they had planes and vehicles, but come on.  What happened to the walls around each territory that they were building a couple of episodes ago ? Did the various teams just drive around them ? And somehow they suddenly had satellite access throughout this episode -- where has that been all this season ?  Since when does the NJ have anti-satellite weapons onboard -- because I think Chandler ordered them to take out the satellite to stop the drone attack,  How exactly ?

Chandler has the sads from killing Shaw and leaves the NJ -- for the last time.  Sure, whatever, he'll be back before you know it.

Edited September 12, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[happyfeet]

They told Chandler that Kathleen was crying for him. Neither Mr Happyfeet nor I have a clue who Kathleen is. Can someone help me please? We've seen every episode.

Edited September 12, 2016 by happyfeet
Typo & addition

[Garnett7]

I'm quite pissed over Tex. Stupid decision, IMO.

[OSM Mom]

14 minutes ago, happyfeet said:

They told Chandler that Kathleen was crying for him. Neither Mr Happyfeet nor I have a clue who Kathleen is. Can someone help me please? We've seen every episode.

Texs daughter I believe.  And I'm pissed about him dying.  =(

15 minutes ago, Garnett7 said:

I'm quite pissed over Tex. Stupid decision, IMO.

You and me both.  

[dirtydi]

SO disappointed about Tex.  When the hell did he get shot.  It happened so fast.  Oh, I think Chandler should have shot her in the kneecaps and let her suffer.

[Artsda]

WTH Tex! He was shot so fast and died instantly that it was ridiculous.  They brought him back to kill one of the best characters on the show? They didn't learn from their killing of Ravit.

Am glad Chandler shot Shaw.

Other than me being really mad at Tex dying instead of someone else I thought it was a great action wise episode. 

 

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They were giving the show 'Revolution' a run for its money with the travel shenanigans this episode.  Sure they had planes and vehicles, but come on. 

I don't think so based on exactly the fact they had planes and fast vehicles. Revolution they were walking from Chicago to Georgia or Texas in days. lol

[JackONeill]

Why put on your hat if your going to kiss the girl?

I am SO pissed about Tex. I can't believe it. The best, most-rounded character. Man, I want him in his own show.

On the other hand, I found it odd that Chandler seemed more affected by Tex's death than anything else.

I suspect next year, if there is one, Chandler will be the new Tex, grizzled and wearing beat-up clothes. And he will come out of his cave to save the world.

[thuganomics85]

So, they only brought Tex back just to kill him off?  That seems like a dumb idea.  But, hey, if there is an afterlife, maybe he finally gets to opportunity to make a go with Dr. Scott.

I know it was suppose to be a big deal that Chandler crossed the line by murdering Shaw, but I just wanted something to quit her from blabbing, so thank you, Chandler.  At least you admitted that it made the time you gave Scott shit last season kind of come off hypocritical.

No real surprises here, I guess.  A few bumps and swerves, but basically the Nathan James crew take out all the regional leaders (except the one Shaw took down herself), took down Shaw, the military sees the errors of their way and surrender, and Oliver is back to being president.  Sure, the ship itself took a missile, but even it seems to have shaken it off.  With the exception of Tex (and Chandler's dad, I guess), no one on the good side was in any danger.  Even the brief attempt at making it look like either Green or Kara could be in danger amounted to nothing.

For two good looking people, Eric Dane and Bridget Regan seem to have no sexual chemistry whatsoever.  That kiss just seemed strange.  Bridget should just go to that Conviction show that is premiering this season, and flirt with Hayley Atwell again, because that's someone she has chemistry with!

I'm guessing next season is going to find someway for either Chandler to come running back, or have the Nathan James go find him, because shit gets real again.  I have no idea what they're going to do.  The first two seasons had the whole search for the cure thing going for them, but this season just felt like your basically political thriller, and I'm not sure the show can really survive on that.  I have no idea what the game plan is here.

[ottoDbusdriver]

24 minutes ago, Artsda said:

I don't think so based on exactly the fact they had planes and fast vehicles. Revolution they were walking from Chicago to Georgia or Texas in days. lol

True enough, but didn't Tiger team basically drive from New York to St. Louis overnight.

And did each team steal the pickups that they drove to St. Louis -- because they originally flew to each of their locations, yet didn't seem to fly to St. Louis.

[missbonnie]

39 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

 

I suspect next year, if there is one, 

It's actually been renewed for two more seasons. Sorry, I can't scroll down to get out of the original quote on my phone. Grrrrr! 

Edited September 12, 2016 by missbonnie

[omnione]

-  Hmm...Chandler executing Shaw had a "jumping the shark" feel to it.  I'm guessing Oliver will pardon Chandler, if not already, for that act.  I can't imagine the real life Navy likes the idea of a CNO executing anyone without due process even if we're talking about a fictional post-apocalypse.   But for me, part of the draw of The Last Ship was a relatively more optimistic post-apocalypse story where the world is salvageable due to a last ship of people who hold true to a moral and ethical code.  I guess season 3 will be partly about Chandler finding himself again rather than following the common apocalypse cliche of getting darker are more brutal.

- Again, the White House has some really, really, unbelievably crappy security.  Try to jump the fence at the real-life WH and you'll be put down before you run 10 yards.  In this show, the WH is conveniently protected by a few glorified rent-a-cops to avoid the bad optics of Navy taking down Army beyond the football field.  That security resembled Storm Troopers with their blind firing tactics.

- The storyline was mostly predictable given the trailer.  

- Not sure why you hold the prisoner exchange on the plane in close quarters.  Wouldn't it seem more logical to hold it right outside the plane and not even leave Tex on board?

- Hate that they killed Tex.  He provided a different flavor to the inherently rigid NJ crewmembers.  The only "free agent" in the crew is Wolf, but he doesn't provide the same twist like Rachel and Tex outside of martial arts.

- Also found it odd how Kara's mother and child survived while Chandler's father did not.  

- I think the climax of this season would've resonated better if there had been fewer China episodes with the NJ finding about the Shaw plot earlier.  That would've provided more time to flesh out the story rather than trying to hurry through it without sufficient detail in a few episodes.  Ideally, a story like this reminds me of a plot from 24.  I think the writers had a good idea that was too big for a summer series.

 

The battle and action scenes were exciting enough, as usual.  I also like the general idea of showing a c**** in Chandler's figurative armor.  He has seemed invincible so far but now he has to face the post-apocalyptic world head-on.  The pacing was good.  I'll be back next season but the powers that be need to make the NJ's adventures more plausible.  

I don't consider the show as having a subtle approach to plot development, but it seemed like Shaw subtly dropped hints about next season.  She didn't want to kill Chandler until they reached their final destination for some reason.  There were references to a more savage world out there.  Earlier in the season, Shaw told Oliver said there was a plot bigger than the both of them.   I'm guessing season 3 will focus on a different continent.  Can't see them having another season where a faction takes over the U.S.

[Dowel Jones]

Since at least one of the pilots was Asian, I was speculating that they were sent by Peng and their destination was China, as it is the only ally that Shaw had now.
  Hope it was a rented plane.

I had to rewind and watch again the scene on the deck where Chandler muses about the future of the USA, as I first heard his statement as "I can be that man".  Oh, no, you didn't, says I.  Fortunately, I was proved wrong.  I also laughed at his "It's Slattery's ship now."  Now???

Yeah, I was a bit mystified by the travel sequences too.  I guess Chandler flew from San Diego to St. Louis by fast jet, and then grabbed an SUV from the by now vacant Hertz lot.

Overall, a very good stand alone action plot if you didn't have to think about the overall story behind it.  I would have like to know how the regional governors so rapidly moved to the top of the dung heaps, and a backstory on Shaw's rise and ability to bully the others around.  What was the point in killing Ms. Texas?

On top of all that, Oliver scanning at the "football" with a look of puzzlement did not leave me with a feeling of relief.  He's still a mayor.

[jwc]

Yes the travel speed was a bit loco.  A standoff at the plane and Chandler arrives on scene in 10 minutes coming from San Diego to St Loius?

Not sure why he would feel so bad about killing Shaw.  She was a megalomaniac.  Chandler killed a bunch of guys from the Immune coalition, then went to China, whacked a bunch of Chinese, offed a couple of boat loads of pirates, and that is just with him pulling the trigger personally.  The guy has launched missiles, sent people on missions, incuding the last series of take downs of the regional leaders, where his delta force teams of three were offing red shirts with silencers like there was no tomorrow.  Kills a couple of Shaws guards on the plane, then after Tex ends up killed (really?  what a waste especially after Scott got offed and that whole romantic thing they had going on went poof) and NOW he has qualms about shooting someone - that someone being the bimbo that kidnapped his kids, killed his father, oh yeah that happening after taking down what remained of the US government, including killing President Michener?

Oh well I guess he wanted to go watch after his kids.  He did his part, sved the world, took down China, reunited the US.  

One thing about the NJ.  It took a pretty serious hit.  I would think something like that would mean 6 months to a year in drydock getting repaired.  Seemed like it would be more than just some duct tape, a little welding on the aft deck and whatnot.  Seems like it would just be easier to transfer to a less damaged ship.

[Dowel Jones]

38 minutes ago, jwc said:

Seems like it would just be easier to transfer to a less damaged ship.

I'm sure they thought of that, but The Penultimate Ship  just doesn't have the same ring to it.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Magnum righteously shot Ivan and Chandler did the same to Shaw.  War criminals are subject to summary execution anywhere and anytime found.

The NJ is now the official transport of Monty Python.  Just a flesh wound, to be sure.

Shaw would never have allowed her security in St. Louis to be so lacking in armament.  Of course, the Cobra team had no grenades, either.  Smoke, they had.  Too funny.

With the re-enactment of the Godfather baptism scene (simultaneous assassinations), new levels of tribalism and factionalism have been unleashed.     While we are at it, why was it OK to kill the Governors when they were in no way a clear and present danger to the "arresting" teams, but Shaw is to be afforded extra-legal protections?  

There would be no trust of the compliant media which lied to the folks either before, or after, Shaw's coup in the minds of the viewers.  Shaw was correct about the truly horrid tableau now extant in the former USA.  

I'm thinking that an elderly Admiral Kirk (William Shatner) will teleport back in time and down to what's left.  He'll, of course, violate the Prime Directive.  I just hope he does not install Captain Wesley Crusher as president.

[JackONeill]

I know Tex was a "lovable rogue" but I have seen him wear bulletproof vests before. But...not...this time.

Damn it!

[TheRabbi]

All those military soldiers present, and no one keeps an eye on Tex coming out of the plane.  So many eye rolls this episode, and this season. Don't think I'll be back for a 4th go'round. 

I think I mentioned this in last week's thread as well, but it's laughable how inept every batch of goons is that goes up against our heroes. The third time they showed a guard spraying fire in a room of the white house, then getting gunned down by someone who was waiting patiently behind cover, I had to just shake my head.

[JackONeill]

Speaking about the ineptitude of "the goons." Not one of them had a stun grenade? They had all our people(all three of them) cornered in one room. Now, we, the good guys, had stun grenades. But not "the goons" who were in charge of security. For Christ's sake.

I still miss Tex.

[ttgreif]

Bring Tex back...

...even if he has to cross the river of Hades.... 

[oakville]

I enjoyed the season finale. I was surprised that Chandler took back control of the USA so quickly. I can't figure out why Shaw killed Price. Wouldn't the Regional Leaders have minions that would try & take over the regions. It's unclear as to how much the national guard in each state still supports the regional leaders vs Chandler. I was very upset that Tex was killed. He was one of my favourite characters. The Nathan James was in pretty good shape after taking a missile hit.

[maraleia]

So the only reason why I'll be back next season is the women on the show.

[Tarasme]

I'm going to miss tLS until next summer.

Still going to watch even though they killed Tex. *sniff... tear rolling...*

Brooklyn to STL is <15 hrs... probably less with such little traffic (not sure how the walls play into rushhour)

I'm pretty sure Wilson and guy that drinks in NY are alive and imprisoned along with Castillo- I don't think the squads had kill orders. The mention of casualties were about our guys and armed henchmen- not killing the Governors.

Was the comment between Shaw and primo henchman about daddyChandler when PH said "we've found(?) him?"

Shaw's execution of Price doesn't make much sense unless Shaw had already sold the entire Americas territory out to someone else and  was on her way to serve that master. Then again, I really have no idea why Shaw would invest so much in keeping peace between US territories if she was only going to backstab all at sooner or later time. :::shrugs::::

Slattery's plea to the armed forces at the plane was moving but really weird? The entirety of the plane scenario was so awkwardly contrived. But again- Kara- you could have saved us all a lot of pain with a couple of rounds back when you fled the STL WH w/ the Pres.

I wouldn't mind if it Show decides to leave Eric Dane out of it for 5 or 8 episodes. There's a lot of good chemistry going and a re-work w/o Chandler could be really interesting.

[JackONeill]

One thing that bugged me (well, actually a few things did): big tough Chandler deliberately DIDN'T talk to Tex's daughter. And, as a kicker, I think I heard someone say that she wanted to talk to him. But, NO. Yet, he could kiss Sasha. What the hell?????

[iMonrey]

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Yes the travel speed was a bit loco.  A standoff at the plane and Chandler arrives on scene in 10 minutes coming from San Diego to St Loius?

That one floored me. I'm willing to do some hand-waving when it comes to Kara and the reporter zipping around the countryside, or Evil Texas Lady zipping back and forth between Texas and St. Louis every episode. But we had Shaw and her people in a stand-off with Chandler's people in an airport hanger in St. Louis (or thereabouts), while Chandler was on a ship in the Pacific Ocean off the California coast, on the phone with Shaw and offering to trade himself for his kids. Cut to Chandler pulling up in a jeep, and his men are still in a stand-off with Shaw's goons.

OK. First of all - there's no more helicopter, so Chandler has to first make it off the Nathan James to (presumably) the San Diego naval base. By boat. Then get a plane and fly to St. Louis. That's four hours, minimum. And for some reason, his plane does not land in the airport where Shaw's plane is, so he has to drive to wherever her plane is. Assuming, of course, that he didn't drive all the way from San Diego. Meanwhile, during all this time, Chandler's people are patiently standing there pointing there weapons at Shaw's men. For at least four hours. Why? Shaw just made a deal to trade Chandler for his kids - she wasn't going anywhere until he showed up. 

I mean, I get taking some shortcuts when it comes to this sort of thing but this was laughably absurd and took me right out of the show.

I guess the best that can be said of this episode is that they delivered on the shoot 'em up porn, so if that's your thing they made sure you got the Big O. And it ended on a note that suggested they didn't have a Season 4 deal in place when they filmed it so they wrote a potential season finale instead of leaving us on a cliff-hanger. I also liked when Shaw's men shot Evil Texas Lady, and cheered when Chandler shot Shaw. Thank you.

However, the fact that they killed off Tex will make it that much easier not to watch next season. I had a hard enough time staying with it this season. There just didn't seem to be any point to this season beyond making extra money off the series.

[Netfoot]

13 hours ago, dirtydi said:

I think Chandler should have shot her in the kneecaps and let her suffer.

I was thinking she deserved woodling, myself.

3 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

The third time they showed a guard spraying fire in a room of the white house, then getting gunned down by someone who was waiting patiently behind cover, I had to just shake my head.

Given that a .223 round will penetrate your standard house wall (interior or exterior) and even a ½" steel plate, the picture of them hiding behind some IKEA desk was sort of laughable!  Why the good guys didn't simply fire through the doors/walls to destroy the guards on the outside, heaven only knows!

"I've got your kids in here, so don't think you can shoot down the plane when we take off!  Now that you know I'm negotiating from a position..."

<¡blablablablablaaaaaam!>  (Full clip into the turbojets)

"...of... strength..."

[Dowel Jones]

35 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

the picture of them hiding behind some IKEA desk was sort of laughable!

I was thinking Blues Brothers for some inane reason at that point.

The tired old trope of incompetent bad guys has been around so long it's almost obligatory now.  They lead by intimidation but when the firefight starts it's always obvious that the recruiter got his staff from the day labor corner of Home Depot.

[iMonrey]

Does anyone understand what Shaw's plan was, anyway? Was her long-term goal the death of all the regional leaders, or was that Plan B once she realized Chandler was still alive? Did she intend to kill Evil Texas Lady then take over all the regional territories herself? How was she going to pull that off? Go on TV and say "Hi folks, remember me? And remember how I said the President killed himself? Well, guess what? Now the four regional leaders are dead too! And of course it's all that big meanie Tom Chandler's doing so don't blame me at all. But since I'm the only one left I'll be in charge of the whole country now. K thx bye."

[Bishop]

On 9/11/2016 at 11:53 PM, Artsda said:

WTH Tex! He was shot so fast and died instantly that it was ridiculous.  They brought him back to kill one of the best characters on the show? They didn't learn from their killing of Ravit.

The actor who plays Tex is on two other shows, I believe, while he was also on The Last Ship.  Maybe he had a full plate, but I agree that Tex was one of the best characters on the show.  If Chandler ever dies or leaves, I think that would be it.  Essentially, it was Chandler, Dr. Scott, and Tex that were the best developed characters.  I am also REALLY upset that Papa Chandler was killed.  I loved him too.  Why do shows feel it's necessary to kill off main characters all the damn time.  I hate it.

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Other than me being really mad at Tex dying instead of someone else I thought it was a great action wise episode. 

I thought it was very good too.  The ending was hard though.

 

On 9/12/2016 at 0:07 AM, JackONeill said:

On the other hand, I found it odd that Chandler seemed more affected by Tex's death than anything else.

I think JUST finding out that his father was dead, murdered by Shaw, and then within minutes of trying to process that news, a man he considers a dear friend is killed in front of him.  Throw in that Chandler didn't want Tex to come on the plane with him, and that just compounds the grief.   So, in a matter of about five minutes, he essentially lost his father and one of his closest friends, and the woman who caused it all is blabbling in his ear about how everything he has done and will try to do in the future to help the country won't amount to anything because no one is going to try and make a difference.

On 9/12/2016 at 0:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

I know it was suppose to be a big deal that Chandler crossed the line by murdering Shaw, but I just wanted something to quit her from blabbing, so thank you, Chandler.  At least you admitted that it made the time you gave Scott shit last season kind of come off hypocritical.

I like that Chandler's guilt about Rachel came to the surface in this episode.  He blamed himself for not being there to help her when she needed it.  Now it happened to his father and to Tex.  Then Chandler started rattling off all the names of the people who have died fighting the good fight, and he comes home and he's accused of treason.  So then he has to fight to both clear his name and put ANOTHER President back in rightful office.  Like Chandler said, (paraphrasing) "Everytime we fix something, something else breaks."  That must be exhausting, and then to lose the people you care about most just makes that pain quadruple. I think that scene with him talking to Slattery and later with Sasha were good.  He holds himself to a higher standard, which makes sense.  If he is going to lead and if people are suppose to follow his lead, he has to set the example.  Instead, he gave in to his anger and grief and murdered Shaw.  There's no two ways around it.  She was unarmed and not a threat, and he shot her point blank.  For Chandler, that's HUGE.  I completely get why he feels like he is not fit to command.  He said it:  The country's moral compass is broken, and it needs to be restored, but it can't be by him because of what he just did.  

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For two good looking people, Eric Dane and Bridget Regan seem to have no sexual chemistry whatsoever.  

I agree, and yet Eric Dane and Rhona Mitra had awesome chemistry.  I was really looking forward to seeing that relationship progress, but oh well.   I agree that Eric and Bridget don't have it, and I felt that way from the minute Sasha appeared in her first scene with him.  It felt forced, like the writers were trying too hard to fill the Rachel void.  You can't force a relationship or chemistry.  Sasha instantly has a history with Chandler and plays that up upon their first meeting, she's good at everything, is suddenly his go-to second.  What happened to Green?  Since I know that Dane had great chemistry with Mitra, I'm going to blame Regan and the character of Sasha.  The writers can't just shoe-horn in a "love interest."  It has to happen organically.  I hope they give Chandler a new love interest, frankly.  

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I'm guessing next season is going to find someway for either Chandler to come running back, or have the Nathan James go find him, because shit gets real again.  I have no idea what they're going to do.  

Spoiler

According to a new Q&A with TVLine, there will be a year time jump, and I usually HATE time jumps, but in this case, I think it makes sense.  I would rather see the U.S. has created some semblance of order before the Nathan James is called back into action.  So I'm guessing that maybe since the country is slowly moving in the right direction, perhaps, a foreign threat creeps up, and Chandler's leadership skills are needed again.   

Edited September 14, 2016 by Bishop

[TV Anonymous]

Yay! The series finale! Boo! No, it's not! Well, it is for me...

So Navy is good and Army is evil? Fuck you show! Or let me rephrase... Navy is steel-eyed square-jaw men and women with ice in their veins and command of confidence in their voices while Army is a bunch of gullible and misled sheeples who need strong Navy man to tell them which one is right and wrong? Fuck you show!

On the other hand "CNO of the United States"? "Your CNO" to Soldiers? Do TPTB not know what CNO is and his responsibility?

So I guess the virus is capable to infect the Aegis Combat System aboard this Arleigh Burke-class destroyer as the ship is completely incompetent against one single MQ-9 Reaper drone. The destroyer is suppose to provide anti-aircraft protection to a CV Battle Group and she is barely able to protect herself without resorting to WWII-era trickery. And just because the drone is remotely-controlled, it does not mean that it is invisible or stealth. It is not equipped with stealth technology. Lastly, the drone control fits into a briefcase? Reaper's flight envelopes is not that dissimilar to a conventional aircraft its size. Its control environment is as big as a cockpit.

We are suppose to suspend our believe with the others, but others have their own explanation, mainly with the VBSS bullshit. But Kara, a deck officer whose duty was the CIC is now Infantry / Special Warfare? Okay then...

With the virus killed 90% of the population, New York City is still a city that never sleeps with bars, hookers and car horns honking?

Now that we are talking bullshit, when the Nathan James was under drone attack why did she not retaliate by sending Tomahawk to STL White House?

[Netfoot]

Other than shooting her, what exactly was Chandler supposed to do with Shaw?  Arrest her?  I wasn't aware that the US Navy had the power of arrest over ordinary citizens.  Chandler and his men were not members of any legitimate Law Enforcement agency that I was aware of.

So, all that high draaamaaa over shooting her and betraying his own sense of right and wrong occurs in the universe of his intent to illegally detain her?  And in the wake of his casual elimination of any and all people who stood between him and this objective?  

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I believe the detachment in the face-off with Slattery were Marines, who would know "CNO."  But, the point that the Navy is filled with super peeps is way past getting old.

Shaw's plan made sense to me.  She would be the only semblance of legitimate authority anyone would know.  If she could foist the demise of the Governors on Chandler, and that was an easy sell at that point, then she could, and would, simply proclaim herself Leader.

One thing the mayor president simply has to do, and it is the no-brainer of no-brainers, is shore up the military and law enforcement, and declare the necessary Martial Law.  Lincoln did it in the War of Northern Aggression and he is hailed a hero.  (I believe he had no choice when he did that and revoked habeas corpus, too).  But, the days of foreign adventures is OVAH.

I'm still calling it that Admiral "Russke" will reappear.

[Maverick]

13 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

habeas corpus,

Do you mean posse comitatus?   I think all the uniformeds we've seen are supposed to be active military as opposed to National Guard so presumably that's been revoked in TLS universe.  

The I didn't have to kill her was such bullshit.   The murdered the guards in New York and shot 3 guards and pilot only seconds before.  But it's wrong to kill her?  Bitch, please.  Put on your big boy pants.  

Edited September 13, 2016 by Maverick

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Nope.  He suspended habeas corpus in Maryland and DC.  Many suspects were held without being charged for a very long time.  Lincoln had little choice, imo.  He was surrounded by spies and provocateurs.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[TV Anonymous]

12 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I believe the detachment in the face-off with Slattery were Marines, who would know "CNO."  But, the point that the Navy is filled with super peeps is way past getting old.

Marines do not wear U.S. flag on the right shoulder of their uniform, and definitely they do not wear ACU - Army Combat Uniform. Instead they would wear MCCUU.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

3 minutes ago, TV Anonymous said:

Marines do not wear U.S. flag on the right shoulder of their uniform, and definitely they do not wear ACU - Army Combat Uniform. Instead they would wear MCCUU.

Thank you for this information!

My statement was based on a belief that Slattery specifically addressed them as Marines.  Of course, it would be no shock if 1) I misremembered, or 2) The show got this detail really wrong.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Lonesome Rhodes

[TV Anonymous]

2 minutes ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

2) The show got this detail really wrong.

The Colonel in charge of the detachment wore 'U.S. Army' tape on his right chest. Could not be more clear than that (that they were not Marines).

Edited September 13, 2016 by TV Anonymous

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Yes, there was no question he was an Army man.  Slattery was addressing the detail/squad.

[JackONeill]

I say next year we pick new colors for uniforms. Blue for the good guys, and red for the bad guys. I mean, we will be rebuilding the world next year.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Bye, Tex. We hardly knew ye.

Also, it looks like they didn't know the show was being renewed when this episode was filmed. Whatever, I'm just glad Allison is finally dead. Elizabeth Rohm got a nice little run with TLS though.

[iMonrey]

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So, all that high draaamaaa over shooting her and betraying his own sense of right and wrong occurs in the universe of his intent to illegally detain her?  And in the wake of his casual elimination of any and all people who stood between him and this objective?  

That's what gets to me. It's such a moral dilemma for him to shoot her yet he just ordered his crew to mow down every single guard that stood between them and her. What's the big?

[TV Anonymous]

22 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Yes, there was no question he was an Army man.  Slattery was addressing the detail/squad.

And the men wearing the same uniform as he was were Marines? C'mon man...

And even if they were, why "your CNO"? The Marines have their Commandant and AFAIK a typical Marine is more fanatical to his CMC than a Soldier to his CSA or a Sailor to his CNO. YMMV, of course.

[millennium]

I think television is the only place where people can afford the luxury of having a crisis of faith.

The only positive thing I can say about this episode is thank you for not ending with a cliffhanger of Chandler and Shaw flying off into the unknown.

[Raja]

9 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

And the men wearing the same uniform as he was were Marines? C'mon man...

And even if they were, why "your CNO"? The Marines have their Commandant and AFAIK a typical Marine is more fanatical to his CMC than a Soldier to his CSA or a Sailor to his CNO. YMMV, of course.

It is right there in the name Army Chief of Staff, not Commander of the Army versus Commandant for a Marine or Chief of Operations in the Navy. The President being the commander that the staff works for. Its been a long time but I don't remember the Army Chiefs of Staff during the Reagan and H.W. Bush years nor do I remember their pictures being included with the chain of command portraits.

[xaxat]

On 9/12/2016 at 1:06 AM, omnione said:

But for me, part of the draw of The Last Ship was a relatively more optimistic post-apocalypse story where the world is salvageable due to a last ship of people who hold true to a moral and ethical code.  

That (well that and military porn) was the primary draw for me. In addition, while no drama is "realistic", I thought the portrayal of the military during the first two seasons was pretty good by TV standards. We got to see people at all levels of the chain of command acting competently in roles they were specifically trained for. I liked that. I think it also made for a better show because we cared knew the crew as individuals, not just redshirts and extras.

This season it was all about Chandler and Sasha. Not nearly as compelling.

Sasha leads one of the teams instead of Burke, one of the ship's tactical officers.

Chandler comes up with the smokescreen idea instead of his chief engineer. Etc.

Ugh.

 

8 hours ago, millennium said:

I think television is the only place where people can afford the luxury of having a crisis of faith.

This was one of the many things that annoyed me about this episode. How come Chandler gets the luxury of walking away from his responsibilities? Ninety percent of the world's population is dead. Everybody has been through a ton of shit! On the Nathan James Chandler actually had it pretty good. It's not like he shot someone to take the last can of beans.

I'll be back for the premier next summer, but the show needs to get back to its roots for me to stick around.

[Bishop]

On 9/12/2016 at 10:16 PM, Netfoot said:

Other than shooting her, what exactly was Chandler supposed to do with Shaw?  Arrest her?  I wasn't aware that the US Navy had the power of arrest over ordinary citizens.  Chandler and his men were not members of any legitimate Law Enforcement agency that I was aware of.

I think Chandler was detaining her and then would turn her over to the authorities, the same thing they were doing with the other three regional leaders.  I don't believe Chandler and the NJ were personally arresting anyone, just grabbing them and then turning them over to whatever authority.  When Rachel killed that guy (forgot his name), Chandler put her under ship arrest until they got to St. Louis and then was going to turn her over to the authorities.

On 9/12/2016 at 10:56 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I'm still calling it that Admiral "Russke" will reappear.

I am also hoping that the Russian admiral comes back.  Of all the bad guys the Nathan James and Chandler has faced, he was my favorite.

On 9/12/2016 at 11:09 PM, Maverick said:

The I didn't have to kill her was such bullshit.   The murdered the guards in New York and shot 3 guards and pilot only seconds before.  But it's wrong to kill her?  Bitch, please.  Put on your big boy pants.  

I don't agree.  The difference between the other people that were killed and Shaw is that the others were either in cahoots with the other killers and leaders and had guns and were actively participating in hurting/killing people and participating in the various coup attempts.  Even the two pilots on board the plane with Chandler were a part of the plot, as were the men on board holding guns to the heads of children.  All those people were eliminated in order to rescue Chandler who Shaw admitted she was going to kill, and everyone on the plane knew it and was okay with it.  It's like having terrorists on an aircraft.  If they are all participating and condoning the actions of the leader, then they are involved.  When it came to Shaw, all her henchmen were dead, she was alone and unarmed, much like Castillo and the other regional leaders - who were all taken into custody and not killed.  Chandler, like he said, didn't have to kill her.  She was no longer a threat; she was not armed; she was not threatening his life.  His actions in killing her were emotional, not strategic nor necessary in order to achieve an objective.  It was an act of grief and rage, and he knew it.  Chandler holds himself to a higher standard, which is why he is wearing the big boy pants.  How does he tell anyone in the future NOT to seek revenge or take action or compromise their principles when he did it - and that's what he was telling Slattery.  The country's moral compass is broken, and he also damaged his own moral compass.  So he can't be the person who sets the example for the country is what he was saying.  Frankly, Chandler has been through a lot emotionally over the last three years  Yes, I know that the other characters have all suffered losses, but Chandler was also the guy in command of everything, having to be strong for everyone else, and that weighs also.

36 minutes ago, xaxat said:

Sasha leads one of the teams instead of Burke, one of the ship's tactical officers.

Chandler comes up with the smokescreen idea instead of his chief engineer. Etc.

I don't like the Sasha character.  She was crammed down the audience's throat the minute she was introduced, and I agree with you that she is suddenly the "go-to" person for EVERYTHING.  What happened to Green?  Wolf?  Burke?  They don't seem to command anything, and yet Sasha is suddenly a tactical officer, AND a marksman, AND speaks a multitude of languages, AND has a past with the Captain?  Please.  I hope she dies next season.  I don't like her as a character unless they really put her more in the background, and I definitely don't like her as a love interest for Chandler.  I don't see any chemistry.  She was forced onto the audience, imo.  As for coming up with the ideas, I'm okay with Chandler coming up with the smokescreen idea.  He even referenced how he thought of it - via a World War II tactic, which makes sense to me since I expect Chandler to have read up on a number of naval tactics.  I was happy that the credit for thinking up using the Chinese battleship as a decoy was given to the Master Chief.  That was his idea, not Chandlers.

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This was one of the many things that annoyed me about this episode. How come Chandler gets the luxury of walking away from his responsibilities? Ninety percent of the world's population is dead. Everybody has been through a ton of shit! On the Nathan James Chandler actually had it pretty good. It's not like he shot someone to take the last can of beans.

I'm not sure that's a fair assessment.  I don't think anyone on the Nathan James had it easy, and everyone lost people to the plague.  You can even say they had it worse because they had no idea that the world was dying during those five or so months they were in the arctic.  The rest of the world got to adjust, the NJ was thrown into the mess.  One minute they had a country and a family, and the next the world had gone to hell, and THEY were the only ones who could literally save the planet - and they did.  As for Chandler, who is suppose to take care of his kids now?  His father is dead.  Does he pass off his children to someone else to raise, and at what risk?  The U.S. is still an unsafe place.  Chandler, if he remains on board the NJ is going to make more enemies, no?  Throw in the loss of his father, the loss of Tex, and his guilt in killing Shaw, and I can see why he resigned.  It's not like the NJ isn't in good hands, and the country does have a President.  From a dramatic perspective, I like that Chandler has been given some dents in his armor.  He can't be a perfect character.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, Bishop said:

I think Chandler was detaining her and then would turn her over to the authorities, the same thing they were doing with the other three regional leaders.

You mean like a Citizen's Arrest?   Because I don't think you're allowed to use automatic weapons when making a Citizen's Arrest...

[iMonrey]

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 think Chandler was detaining her and then would turn her over to the authorities, the same thing they were doing with the other three regional leaders.

But . . . who is the authority now? It was Shaw until five minutes ago; before that it was the regional leaders. And apparently both the military and the local police forces were falling in line with those regional leaders. So who do they turn to now that the regional leaders and Shaw are gone? Back to Chandler, the one they were convinced was a terrorist leader and traitor just two seconds ago? Boy, it sure is easy to convince the military and the police to switch sides isn't it?

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I don't like the Sasha character.  She was crammed down the audience's throat the minute she was introduced

It occurs to me that the reason they killed Rachel at the end of last season is that they originally intended to extend this story by having the virus mutate, and with Rachel out of the way that would have made it much more difficult to find another cure. It has struck me as bizarre that all season long, the TNT promos show Michener saying "the virus has mutated," as though that were the premise of this season. And yet - that's not what happened. Like, at all. I think they had something else in mind at the beginning of this season and then everything just sort of went off the rails, direction-wise.

[Bishop]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But . . . who is the authority now? It was Shaw until five minutes ago; before that it was the regional leaders. And apparently both the military and the local police forces were falling in line with those regional leaders. So who do they turn to now that the regional leaders and Shaw are gone? Back to Chandler, the one they were convinced was a terrorist leader and traitor just two seconds ago? Boy, it sure is easy to convince the military and the police to switch sides isn't it?

Yeah, I don't know who the "authority" is either, but it looked to me like Chandler and the Nathan James were holding the regional leaders and then turning them over to the President and HE could decide what to do with them.  The truth is that the country has no center at the moment.  What I do know is that Chandler and the NJ were capturing and holding the regional leaders to be turned over to whatever authority the President (I'm guessing) deemed necessary.

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It occurs to me that the reason they killed Rachel at the end of last season is that they originally intended to extend this story by having the virus mutate, and with Rachel out of the way that would have made it much more difficult to find another cure. It has struck me as bizarre that all season long, the TNT promos show Michener saying "the virus has mutated," as though that were the premise of this season. And yet - that's not what happened. Like, at all. I think they had something else in mind at the beginning of this season and then everything just sort of went off the rails, direction-wise.

I agree.  I think it was even mentioned by one of the writers or the producer that if the virus mutated, the Nathan James couldn't fall back on Rachel.  Yet the virus never mutated.  So what was the point of killing her off?  I think they made a big mistake getting rid of Rachel.  I liked her as a character all her own, and I liked her chemistry with Chandler.  Sasha is NOT working for me.  She's like Super Woman who is good at everything.  That's annoying.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

If there was any USA at all by the point of the final ep, Oliver was CiC.  He approved the operations, thus deputizing Chandler and the gang.  Arresting authority was not an issue, imo.

If there was no USA, might makes right, as there was no recognized authority by those who chose to keep their prior oath.  Shaw and the others were the enemy who overthrew their government.