Cold Case

[andromeda331]

On 12/10/2022 at 11:27 AM, ljenkins782 said:

I feel like it had to have been the parents, right? If it had been an outsider, the parents would have been looking for the child. I assume it was a punishment that went too far and they covered it up by abandoning the body. 

65 years later, it's probably not possible to discover all the details, but I'd be very curious to know if he had siblings who are still alive and have some memory of that time.

On another note, has anyone watched the movie version of Dear Evan Hansen? Danny Pino plays the stepfather and he did an excellent job. And his Cold Case demeanor shows through in several scenes, like when he has to tell Evan that Connor committed suicide, it could easily have been a clip from a Cold Case interview scene.

It's the only thing that makes sense. Anyone else would have called the police and been looking for him.

[andromeda331]

The Crossing-I like that Geoffrey just wanted Millie to be happy even if she didn't love him. That's really nice and still very rare in shows. I can't believe Moe got off.

Jurisprudence-Rizzoli and Isles had a similar episode of a teen sent to a juvenile detention center and killed because based on the Kids For Cash scandal. So did Leverage. It's was still a good but infuriating. I like that Scotty knew the victim.

Soul-Poor Billy his father wishes he had been killed instead of his brother and his childhood friend kills him.

WASP-I really hope this wasn't based on a true story. I really hope serviceman or men weren't sabotaging women's jets. As much as I hate Iris she was right about the higher ups would deal with Edna's plane being sabotaged.

Dead Heat-All those poor horses. How horrible what happened to them when they were of no use for racing. They didn't have to do that. 

Chinatown-I hate that Jack's father refused to talk to police I like that his mother came to the police after he died. I also like the letter she sent to Ling after learning he killed his brother. Ling deserved it and worse.

Forsenics-I figured his coach was the one who killed him. I liked the twist about the death threat. I liked Alyssa ended up doing volunteer work. Too bad Luke didn't get to live to go back to his old school. He would have been happy there.
The scene where he talked his dad down from suicide was really hard and really good.

Iced-My parents' talked about that hockey game at every time the Olympics came around. It was such a shocking upset. Wow, Dwight was a piece of shit for what he did to Molly then calling her a sporty little slut among other things. I wish Tommy had realized how horrible he was sooner.

The Good Soldier-I liked Mike taking down the gangbangers in a fight. He even managed to recruit one. I like that the killer took over his job to try and help people the same way he helped her. I do feel a little for his wife too. It had to be hard to have your husband always overseas fighting in a war. 

The Runaway Bunny-I like the twist with PI protecting the daughter. Too bad his friend thought so little of him that he thought they could use him.

Metamorphosis-What a twist! The mentally handicapped goon was really in charge running circus and scamming people. That was a really good twist. Mia was really talented. I also liked seeing Moe murdered by Kate's father. He deserved it.

Two Weddings-I liked that Dan wasn't murdered but committed suicide. I liked what happened to his first wife wasn't murder. How horrible to have your wife end up in a coma and still in love with her. What do you do? Go on with your life? Don't? Lilly and the detectives were terrible to be questioning everyone at the wedding. They didn't even like the groom. I didn't like the groom for stalking his future bride.

Flashover-I feel for Nick realizing that he was wrong and an innocent man was convicted for a crime he didn't committ. It stinked that no one would listen to him.

The Last Drive-In/Bullet-A good two parter. I didn't remember Diane being the girlfriend. I feel for Paul's father but dang Paul that's not the way to avenge your father or yourself.

Almost Paradise-Of course it was the vice principal. What a creep. I liked that the nerd ended up joining the army and becoming a karate master. That was cool. Suzie was a jerk. Felicia had been one but at least as of prom night 
was starting to change. Although Suzie seemed to feel bad about it later. 
I really, really hate that Scotty arranged a murder.

Shattered-I don't like Lilly's sister I don't like her spending the last episode searching for her or forcing Scotty to help. I really didn't like any part of that at all. I'm happy that the mother finally got resolved on her daughter's case. 

This really wasn't a good season. Lilly's dad returns and is an asshole. He abandoned his daughters and went onto have another family. I didn't like his wife tell Lilly how it was going to be either. Lady, stay out of it. Lilly can treat her father however she likes after what he did. I really wish she had just told him off.
I never really liked Chris so I wasn't happen that she returns or became Lilly's last case or really cared about what happened to her.
I did not like Scotty arranging the murder of his mother's rapist. That was cold blooded and really out of character of him. Are we suppose to be happy that he's dead? The man was in jail.

episodes Hoodrats, Bombers, Read Between the Lines, One Fall and Free Love were skipped on the channel.

I really think this series was just terrible at love interests for it's main characters. They really were all terrible or weird. Scotty finds out the woman he's dating is married and she has the nerve to be mad at him. Then even more mad when she decides to give her marriage another shot.  

[Black Knight]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Lilly and the detectives were terrible to be questioning everyone at the wedding.

I thought it was kinda funny the way they just couldn't turn themselves off.

And then Vera gets lucky at the end. LOL

[MarylandGirl]

Flashover was such a good episode that really stuck with me. I think they did a nice job of going into Nick's personal life without it being all soapy or annoying (see: Lilly's sister).

[joanne3482]

On 11/15/2022 at 4:57 PM, MarylandGirl said:

This is part of what I like about it--history lessons with many episodes.

As horrible as this is to admit, although it reflects far more on the state of education in the US in the 80s, I didn't know anything about the Japanese internment camps until that episode of Cold Case. We were never taught that in history class. So I definitely agree, Cold Case was a jumping off point for me to research stuff I didn't know anything about. 

[MarylandGirl]

2 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

As horrible as this is to admit, although it reflects far more on the state of education in the US in the 80s, I didn't know anything about the Japanese internment camps until that episode of Cold Case. We were never taught that in history class. So I definitely agree, Cold Case was a jumping off point for me to research stuff I didn't know anything about. 

Agreed! I went to school in the 80s and early 90s (high school class of 95) and never learned about Japanese internment camps or really anything about Vietnam (I took a 20th-century U.S. history class in college to help fill in some of the gaps). Or Freedom Schools. I think they didn't want to teach the stuff that made the U.S. look bad or that was more complicated. 

Though, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have taught about things like key parties either!

 

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

As horrible as this is to admit, although it reflects far more on the state of education in the US in the 80s, I didn't know anything about the Japanese internment camps until that episode of Cold Case. We were never taught that in history class. So I definitely agree, Cold Case was a jumping off point for me to research stuff I didn't know anything about. 

I didn't either until I read it in a Babysitters Club book. The Cold Case episode was the first time I ever saw it referenced in TV. 

[Bastet]

I went to school in the '70s and '80s, but I don't specifically remember if we learned about the internment camps there, or if I only knew because one of my mom's friends had been in one.

Even though the beginning of that episode goes overboard showing how they're the stereotypically perfect American family to make it all the more horrible for them to be treated as un-American, it's a good one.

[Theli11]

Flashover might be the last episode that's really good. I think Bombers, Chinatown, Read Between the Lines, Soul, and Jurisprudence are all good episodes. I just can't stand the subplots in between the episodes. I think the best episodes are the ones where the subplot really relates to the episode itself. 
Best example is Lilly's Mom killing herself slowly being paired with the episode "The Good Death". Other episodes, Lilly's issues with her mother comes up with "Fly Away" which pairs well with the episode. "Offender" and Scotty's issues with child rapists (specifically in relation with his brother, Mike). "The Sleepover" where the brother has psych issues and that obviously gets to Scotty. "Bad Night" which focuses on a car accident and Jeffries can't care about the victim because of his wife's accident. Flashover does this well also. Season 7 can't get that balance and it also is a pain to watch one off.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, Theli11 said:

Flashover might be the last episode that's really good. I think Bombers, Chinatown, Read Between the Lines, Soul, and Jurisprudence are all good episodes. I just can't stand the subplots in between the episodes. I think the best episodes are the ones where the subplot really relates to the episode itself. 
Best example is Lilly's Mom killing herself slowly being paired with the episode "The Good Death". Other episodes, Lilly's issues with her mother comes up with "Fly Away" which pairs well with the episode. "Offender" and Scotty's issues with child rapists (specifically in relation with his brother, Mike). "The Sleepover" where the brother has psych issues and that obviously gets to Scotty. "Bad Night" which focuses on a car accident and Jeffries can't care about the victim because of his wife's accident. Flashover does this well also. Season 7 can't get that balance and it also is a pain to watch one off.

I did like the storyline of Lilly's mom killing herself and Lilly finally accepting there was nothing she could do. Her mother was making the choice. I did feel for Lilly. But it felt realistic. Scotty's issues with child rapists was disturbing especially when it lead him to setting up his mother's rapist to be murdered who was already in jail. That was so off the rails. I liked Jeffries confronting the person who caused his wife's accident. That was really well done. All three characters had certain issues from their lives. But I agree it was terrible for the most part. I think the writers were just as bad as writing those subplots as they were writing relationships for the characters. 

[Bastet]

5 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I did like the storyline of Lilly's mom killing herself and Lilly finally accepting there was nothing she could do. Her mother was making the choice.

I loved that storyline, because I don't think I've ever seen it before or since on television -- an addict saying I know myself very well at this stage of the battle; I am not going to beat this no matter what I do, so I'm done fighting; whether you decide to be there or not, leave me to spending the time I have left on my own terms and a loved one not only accepting that but agreeing to be there with her until the bitter end was quite powerful.

11 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

especially when it lead him to setting up his mother's rapist to be murdered who was already in jail. That was so off the rails.

That extrajudicial execution was disgusting.  This show always had some of the usual cop show issues of normalizing, excusing, or even celebrating police misconduct (which is why I hate 99% of cop shows), but it was generally far less an offender than most.  The exceptions were usually with Scotty, and it seemed like, had it been renewed for another season, they intended to let him get away with murder.  Hell to the fucking no.

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, Bastet said:

I loved that storyline, because I don't think I've ever seen it before or since on television -- an addict saying I know myself very well at this stage of the battle; I am not going to beat this no matter what I do, so I'm done fighting; whether you decide to be there or not, leave me to spending the time I have left on my own terms and a loved one not only accepting that but agreeing to be there with her until the bitter end was quite powerful.

I've never seen that it go that way on TV either. There's always as you say "I'm going to beat this no matter what". Lilly's mother choosing to keep drinking and die is pretty realistic. I'm still surprised that Lilly was able to be there until the end. That's not easy thing to do watching your mother basically killing herself. Kathryn Morris did a great job showing how she really felt about it while deciding to still be there.
 

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That extrajudicial execution was disgusting.  This show always had some of the usual cop show issues of normalizing, excusing, or even celebrating police misconduct (which is why I hate 99% of cop shows), but it was generally far less an offender than most.  The exceptions were usually with Scotty, and it seemed like, had it been renewed for another season, they intended to let him get away with murder.  Hell to the fucking no.

 

It really was. The man was already in jail. There was no need to arrange his murder. And yeah they would have let him get away with the murder. They already let him get away with beating up the child molester. I'm glad it ended before Scotty committed another crime or murder or murders and get away with it.

[Bastet]

21 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Kathryn Morris did a great job showing how she really felt about it while deciding to still be there.

I've never seen her in anything else, and consider her an "Eh, fine" actor in this, but she really did some good stuff with the run-up to and aftermath of Ellen's death.  That moment in the bar when she extracts the promise and then signals the bartender to go ahead and pour another, the Velveteen Rabbit discussion, and when she tells Scotty if Ellen had just called her cell instead of the office she wouldn't have died alone are all well played.

[ljenkins782]

On 1/23/2023 at 4:24 PM, MarylandGirl said:

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As horrible as this is to admit, although it reflects far more on the state of education in the US in the 80s, I didn't know anything about the Japanese internment camps until that episode of Cold Case. We were never taught that in history class. So I definitely agree, Cold Case was a jumping off point for me to research stuff I didn't know anything about. 

Agreed! I went to school in the 80s and early 90s (high school class of 95) and never learned about Japanese internment camps or really anything about Vietnam (I took a 20th-century U.S. history class in college to help fill in some of the gaps). Or Freedom Schools. I think they didn't want to teach the stuff that made the U.S. look bad or that was more complicated. 

Though, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have taught about things like key parties either!

Yeah, school curriculums like to focus on the Revolutionary War/Industrial revolution era most of all, it seems. I remember taking 20th century history as a high school junior and them jamming all of these topics in a half year after like 15 years of learning about the Revolutionary war every damn year. But I think it's because it's the best story they have, the triumph of the underdog and all that.

Quote

Flashover might be the last episode that's really good. I think Bombers, Chinatown, Read Between the Lines, Soul, and Jurisprudence are all good episodes. I just can't stand the subplots in between the episodes. I think the best episodes are the ones where the subplot really relates to the episode itself. 
Best example is Lilly's Mom killing herself slowly being paired with the episode "The Good Death". Other episodes, Lilly's issues with her mother comes up with "Fly Away" which pairs well with the episode. "Offender" and Scotty's issues with child rapists (specifically in relation with his brother, Mike). "The Sleepover" where the brother has psych issues and that obviously gets to Scotty. "Bad Night" which focuses on a car accident and Jeffries can't care about the victim because of his wife's accident. Flashover does this well also. Season 7 can't get that balance and it also is a pain to watch one off.

Yes, the last 2 seasons went off the rails with the ongoing personal story threads and it didn't add anything. What I liked about the show were the stories and the time period shifts, it just didn't need these extra threads. Occasionally in the earlier seasons, there were very brief interludes that gave some layers to the main characters, but they didn't overshadow the rest of the episodes. Seasons 6 & 7 just didn't hit the right balance.

[andromeda331]

11 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

Yeah, school curriculums like to focus on the Revolutionary War/Industrial revolution era most of all, it seems. I remember taking 20th century history as a high school junior and them jamming all of these topics in a half year after like 15 years of learning about the Revolutionary war every damn year. But I think it's because it's the best story they have, the triumph of the underdog and all that.

Yeah, that's how it was at my schools too. I love the Revolutionary War but got tired of hearing about it year after year. My best friend and I were really into history and wanted to hear about other stuff besides it, the Civil War and WW2. We researched stuff on our own.

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Yes, the last 2 seasons went off the rails with the ongoing personal story threads and it didn't add anything. What I liked about the show were the stories and the time period shifts, it just didn't need these extra threads. Occasionally in the earlier seasons, there were very brief interludes that gave some layers to the main characters, but they didn't overshadow the rest of the episodes. Seasons 6 & 7 just didn't hit the right balance.

 

Cold Case really worked better that way. It's like Law & Order which was better when it was just on the cases then the private lives of the characters. They always gave just enough tibits about the characters to give insight or learn things about them. Law & Order had a chance to correct it while Cold Case probably never would have. It really seemed to like having characters going off the rails. It just didn't work. I liked Scotty in the beginning but by the end of the series hate him because he's been beating up people and setting up a murder or Lilly not telling off her asshole father or dealing with more of her sister's crap. 

[Theli11]

23 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

Cold Case really worked better that way. It's like Law & Order which was better when it was just on the cases then the private lives of the characters. They always gave just enough tibits about the characters to give insight or learn things about them. Law & Order had a chance to correct it while Cold Case probably never would have. It really seemed to like having characters going off the rails. It just didn't work. I liked Scotty in the beginning but by the end of the series hate him because he's been beating up people and setting up a murder or Lilly not telling off her asshole father or dealing with more of her sister's crap. 

I came to the show thinking Scotty's my favorite character but time and time again he does really stupid shit. Unlike Danny Pino's character in SVU (Who's honestly really similar in their actions just not the reasoning). He comes off as this cowboy cop who doesn't understand why this is happening to him. There's moments where he's really good like Season 1 Episode 19, Late Returns. He starts getting Lily's knack for cold cases and desperately wants the truth to come out. This show sets up  that they can't solve every case, or that one slips by sometimes. (I find it oddly funny in the cold open when Lilly mentions she hasn't seen bodies in a while, which makes me think who does the regular homicides in Philly..) 

I think SVU really had the balance of character drama from seasons 13 - 17. After that it started being repetitive in the cases and the characters started either being exceedingly boring (like Olivia) or really underused like Fin. 

On 1/11/2023 at 6:01 AM, andromeda331 said:

Jurisprudence-Rizzoli and Isles had a similar episode of a teen sent to a juvenile detention center and killed because based on the Kids For Cash scandal. So did Leverage. It's was still a good but infuriating. I like that Scotty knew the victim.

SVU has an episode like this with a corrupt judge. They've also both used Boy in the Box and the case in "Flashover" also. 

[Bastet]

On 3/7/2023 at 8:53 PM, andromeda331 said:

Lilly not telling off her asshole father

Lilly's mom did a lot wrong in raising the girls, certainly, but I dearly love when Lilly responds to Ellen's "I'm your mother" with "Yeah, I wondered who that drunk lady driving me to school was" and Ellen comes back with "Maybe you should have asked your father for a ride".  As Ellen said, he left, she stayed.  And that doesn't absolve her, but, while she gets taken to task for her parenting failures constantly, he never once has to account for his in any meaningful way -- it's supposed to be moved past, since it was long ago -- let alone repeatedly.

At one point Lilly blames Ellen for "running him off".  No.  That's on him.  Leaving your wife and leaving your kids are two different things, and way too many men think it's okay to lump them together.  He bounced.  Completely -- no interaction with the kids, and not even any checks sent -- despite knowing Ellen's addiction and finances left her unable to properly care for two kids on her own.

And we never see him make any overtures towards reconnecting with his other daughter.  I don't even remember him ever asking about Christina.  (And, hey, I don't want anything to do with that annoying little shit of a hot mess, either, but I'm not her parent.  He is, and he's part of the reason she's such a train wreck.)

I dislike how that entire storyline was written.  He makes me angry, and, while I like Mare Winningham, her character pisses me off, too, trying to dictate how and when Lilly will interact with the family her dad stuck around for.

[kathyk24]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

Lilly's mom did a lot wrong in raising the girls, certainly, but I dearly love when Lilly responds to Ellen's "I'm your mother" with "Yeah, I wondered who that drunk lady driving me to school was" and Ellen comes back with "Maybe you should have asked your father for a ride".  As Ellen said, he left, she stayed.  And that doesn't absolve her, but, while she gets taken to task for her parenting failures constantly, he never once has to account for his in any meaningful way -- it's supposed to be moved past, since it was long ago -- let alone repeatedly.

At one point Lilly blames Ellen for "running him off".  No.  That's on him.  Leaving your wife and leaving your kids are two different things, and way too many men think it's okay to lump them together.  He bounced.  Completely -- no interaction with the kids, and not even any checks sent -- despite knowing Ellen's addiction and finances left her unable to properly care for two kids on her own.

And we never see him make any overtures towards reconnecting with his other daughter.  I don't even remember him ever asking about Christina.  (And, hey, I don't want anything to do with that annoying little shit of a hot mess, either, but I'm not her parent.  He is, and he's part of the reason she's such a train wreck.)

I dislike how that entire storyline was written.  He makes me angry, and, while I like Mare Winningham, her character pisses me off, too, trying to dictate how and when Lilly will interact with the family her dad stuck around for.

I agree with you. He could have fought for custody of Lily and he didn't. 

[andromeda331]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

Lilly's mom did a lot wrong in raising the girls, certainly, but I dearly love when Lilly responds to Ellen's "I'm your mother" with "Yeah, I wondered who that drunk lady driving me to school was" and Ellen comes back with "Maybe you should have asked your father for a ride".  As Ellen said, he left, she stayed.  And that doesn't absolve her, but, while she gets taken to task for her parenting failures constantly, he never once has to account for his in any meaningful way -- it's supposed to be moved past, since it was long ago -- let alone repeatedly.

I do like her pointing that out too. Ellen was a mess but she stayed. It reminded me when Lilly watched an old video of her and her mom playing in the snow. She went through a lot with her mother and it's easy to forget there were good moments. Lilly does love her mother but the addiction ruined so much of their lives. We see how hard it is for Lilly right up to the end that her mother keeps chosing her addiction. Choses to drink and die rather then stop and Lilly.  

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At one point Lilly blames Ellen for "running him off".  No.  That's on him.  Leaving your wife and leaving your kids are two different things, and way too many men think it's okay to lump them together.  He bounced.  Completely -- no interaction with the kids, and not even any checks sent -- despite knowing Ellen's addiction and finances left her unable to properly care for two kids on her own.

And we never see him make any overtures towards reconnecting with his other daughter.  I don't even remember him ever asking about Christina.  (And, hey, I don't want anything to do with that annoying little shit of a hot mess, either, but I'm not her parent.  He is, and he's part of the reason she's such a train wreck.)

 

Exactly, he chose to bail on kids. Ellen had nothing to do with it. It wsa all him. He chose to leave. He chose to never contact his kids or child support or anything. He knew Ellen was a mess but he chose not to remove his kids from the situation. He took off, did whatever he wanted which apparently included having another family that he did stay and take care off. Lilly's views of her parents' is realistic. It's easy to blame the parent that's there especially when they have issues with addiction and money then the one who left. But that really should have ended after meeting him. It was clear he didn't care about her or her sister. He was a shitty parent who bailed. I could be wrong but I only ever remember him mentioning Christina towards the end when Lilly's refusing to see her.

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I dislike how that entire storyline was written.  He makes me angry, and, while I like Mare Winningham, her character pisses me off, too, trying to dictate how and when Lilly will interact with the family her dad stuck around for.

So do I. I hate seeing Lilly just accepting him and what he says. She's been pretty good at going off on her mother and sister for their actions. But not him. He shows zero remorse for leaving Lilly and her sister to grow up with an addicted mother.  I really wanted to see Lilly go off on him and cut him out of her life. 

As for his wife, while she doesn't have to be mean. I wanted to see her tell Mare's character that she doesn't know what she's talking about. Her husband abandoned his kids with an alcoholic mother and never once support. How can she be okay enough to have married such a man? Did she know that he abandoned his kids? That he's done nothing and still does nothing? He's not making any amends. If so, how is she okay with that, how is she not worried he'll do the same to her. Or did he not tell her? He doesn't seem like the type to ever paint himself the bad guy and given what she tells Lilly. It's entirely possible he lied which Lilly should corrected for her.