S03.E11: Legacy

[HalcyonDays]

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Episode synopsis: Chandler faces his powerful enemy in a final showdown. Kara joins someone that can help with her mission.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Wow that sucked !!  I mean really sucked.  On multiple levels.

The whole demise of Peng as he ransacks the Japanese National Archives -- what the fuck was all that about ?  Why even bother ?
And it was just so underwhelming, after all the trials and tribulations of the previous 10 episodes.

Even the destruction of the 2nd Chinese destroyer was underwhelming -- it was just gone.

Of course the CNS Henan is a complete ripoff of the Arleigh Burke-class destroyers -- so they could re-use the same sets.

Has Wolf been banging Jessie as well -- after that prolonged stare when she was leaving, I wasn't sure what the meant ?  I guess Wolf has finally gotten over or just completely forgotten Valerie.

On to the stateside shenanigans -- Tex has a working phone line out in the middle of nowhere.  Really ?  
And they also have cellular data services in the middle of Arkansas -- that doesn't seem like a high priority when they can't feed themselves.

I'm curious -- was the order to kill all the generals/admirals Executive Order 66 ?

Smell ya later Jacob.

Will the next episode begin with the mice from the movie Babe saying "Three Weeks Later"  ?  Because it's going to take a while to get across the Pacific to San Diego.  Plus, aren't they really short on food ?  That seemed to be quite the sticking point last episode.

Is Chandler taking the Henan with them back to the States ?

I find it hard to believe that all five regional leaders are spectacularly evil in order to pull this coup off.  Less than 7-8 months ago they were struggling to get by without the cure and now they are each building oppressive regimes with private armies and copious amounts of prison camps all over the place.  It all makes no sense. It's like the writers suddenly realized they only had two episodes left in the season after this one and the Nathan James had to skedaddle back to the States.

Edited August 29, 2016 by ottoDbusdriver

[thuganomics85]

I know this show has never been exactly subtle with its characters; especially it's villains; but Peng just destroying a Japanese Heritage Museum pretty much for shits and giggles, has got to be the most cartoony yet.  Unless I missed it, what did he have to gain from it?  And there really was no reason for him to be there, so this was clearly some kind of "I'm an asshole, and I have to be here, because that's what an asshole does!" thing. So, sure enough, the Nathan James crew mow down his useless men with ease, he flees, bumps into Takahaya, stupidly taunts him when he gets the advantage, so Takahaya lands the fatal blow.  What a dumbass.

But I guess he's out of the way so Allison and the regional leaders can be the true villains now.  Even after Oliver escapes, she just makes it look like he was some kind of terrorist, and dissolves the USA anyway.   Of course, had Kara actually just shot Allison, she probably could have solved a lot of problems.  Wrong time to be merciful, Kara!  

At least Tex is back and still entertaining.  Not surprised that means they have to loose someone to gain, so looks like Jacob is a goner.  He really had the most thankless job out of everyone.  Well, except the two nameless friends of Tex that got offed.

So, now Chandler and the Nathan James have been branded as traitors to everyone in the USA, so I don't know what their next play is.  At least he's got another ship, right?  And that other captain guy seems to have come around, so maybe he can take that one.  Yay?

Farewell, Takahaya.  Bye also to Jesse, I guess.  They never seemed to do anything with her, besides sprinkling in brief flirtation scenes with Wolf, and touching on her history with Sasha.  I guess they needed a helicopter pilot for this season, but what was the point of getting Dichen Lachman for it, if she would be used that little?

[JackONeill]

Glad to see Tex, and glad to hear his three lines. Was that his daughter driving the truck towards the end? So, I guess we can bring all the kids out of hiding and arm them, then we'll have a little army. But they'll have to take afternoon naps.

The other captain will get the 2nd ship and get taken down when everyone thinks it's the NJ. Then the NJ will ... well, I have no idea what. Sounds like there's going to be a lot of talking and negotiating.

Oh, by the way, does this have anything to do with the virus? No. So, now what's this show about??? 

[jwc]

Not sure why Peng would have to go in person to destroy the museum.  Couldn't he just have a plane drop a bomb on it or launch a missle or something?

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Fonzie on the Bridge!

Wow.  

The one thing that actually makes sense to me was Peng's obsession with settling the most ancient of scores with Japan, personally.   It really fits on several levels - all of which are perfectly justified in my mind.  As a practical matter, his return home to absolute power would be enhanced and assured.  

Kara failing to kill Shaw was one of the all-time most hilarious things I have ever seen on television.  No joke.

A new level of discontinuity with Takeheya (Kaito).  He was on death's door on the NJ.  He was fading fast and the doc said there was nothing he could do anymore for him.  Blammo!  A couple of days later, he is fit as a fiddle, and frisky, and kicking ass on the strike team!   

Another great (not) moment was after the vast majority of the PRC agents had been killed and we were down to maybe five of them, total: Peng, personally, killed at least one of the good guys.  (By the by...where was all the sadness at the NJ casualties?  We had seen this after each mission this season.  Now?  Crickets.)  All the highly trained and skilled dudes missed and missed badly.  Peng?  One shot, one kill.  I also looooved the trope that the dying enemy, in this case Peng, was beseeched for truthful information by the protagonist - and he got it!  

I actually did appreciate the realism of the utter political catastrophe ongoing in the defunct USA.  They've well displayed the impossibility of a center holding with the dystopian circumstances they've outlined to date.  Among other things, how many Jacob's were there?  None are left, eh?  As Chandler profoundly stated: In such a situation, the bigger the lie, the more it will be believed.   

I'm thinking maybe the NJ and "AB" will hit up a WaWa, or perhaps a Love's on the way home.

[Triskan]

Wow, as always it's tough to form any coherent thought after the nervosity and febrility of an episode of The Last Ship...

Loved that Takehaya was the one to take out Peng ! 

Man, the last two episodes will be intense as fuck ! (as always !)

[Agent Dark]

There is some very bitter relations between Japan and China, dating back to the late 19th Century when the Japanese fairly convincingly won the first Sino-Japanese War that resulted in influence over Korea being wrestled away from China and to Japan.  That had some pretty big repercussions in China, since they had been forced to sue for peace which put a huge strain on their economy, and was basically the beginning of the end for the Qing Dynasty (which had ruled China for over 250 years but collapsed not long after, just before WW1 started).  Japan later perpetuated some horrific war crimes in China when they invaded during WW2 (ie the Nanking Massacre), and that is still a very strong point of contention between the two nations particularly because there's a culture of denial in Japan about its actions during WW2.  In more recent times, there's disagreement over the status of Taiwan, China's concern over Japanese-American military cooperation and disputes about ownership of islands in the East China Sea that continue to flare up.

 

Peng's personal vendetta against Japan definitely 'makes sense' in that context.  Obviously it was taken to a xenophobic extreme, but Peng was the bad guy after all...

[TheRabbi]

The first 2 seasons always had a bit of cheese to go with the story, but man this was possibly the most ridiculous hour of television I have ever seen. Just so laughably bad and stupid. 

How about the geniuses who 'knew where Tex was going', yet apparently never bothered to look for him when they got there and just waltzed over to Kara? Many others have already been mentioned.

Shaw is such a laughably cartoonish villain, and I can't stand the way the actress is doing it.  I swear that some lines she knows are so completely ridiculous and you can kind of see the sadness on her face ("this is the best gig I could get?"). 

And how exactly was that press conference explained? 2 guys drag the president away, and the reporter correctly asks if he's a prisoner in his own white house, and then.....the government disbands?  

Then the montage at the end, with the 'transition' of the military, was so utterly absurd. I actually burst out laughing when the one guy went in for the strangulation via weight bar. One of the best unintentionally hilarious moments in a while.

I can't wait until this season is over.

[GoMocs]

I always question when they can get so many people to join a conspiracy without anybody going public.......sorta like the JFK conspiracies where the CIA, Texas Rangers, KGB, KKK, and both political parties were in on a conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

 

Oh, and the beginning of the show..as a one time resident of Texarkana TX, let me say that opening scene was total BS. The highest point in the county is a freeway overpass, there no hills, much less mountains there. Why not choose a town in that part of the country where it more resembled the shooting location?

[Tarasme]

Hmmm...

I thought I liked last night's episode until I got here and saw how bad it was. :( I think I was carried away by all the adrenaline and... TEX! We didn't even have to wait until the opening credits to get TEX! And he's already raisin' hell against the baddies. Well of course he is. :) If only he'd stabbed that horrible women with her equally horrible brooch.

Okay- I give up. I can't get any formatting to work on the rest of my comment. Kara- next time don't worry about a good shoot. Just consider that Shaw is always a clear and present danger to you, your family, the world and don't worry about her being armed. Should you get the chance again, shoot her. I apologize in advance if this post looks crazy- I'll edit if/when I can.

[xaxat]

Soooo, we're back to season two. (Minus the race for a cure and the Young Ones on a sub.) Chandler and the Nathan James are all alone in a desperate effort to find the rightful president and restore democracy to America. 

Glad to see Tex back. Although it would have been more of a surprise had he not been featured in the promos.

The show still does action well, but the plot is just not working for me.

[oakville]

3 hours ago, GoMocs said:

I always question when they can get so many people to join a conspiracy without anybody going public.......sorta like the JFK conspiracies where the CIA, Texas Rangers, KGB, KKK, and both political parties were in on a conspiracy to assassinate JFK.

 

Oh, and the beginning of the show..as a one time resident of Texarkana TX, let me say that opening scene was total BS. The highest point in the county is a freeway overpass, there no hills, much less mountains there. Why not choose a town in that part of the country where it more resembled the shooting location?

The filming locations were not realistic on yesterday's episode. Why were there so many palm trees at the White House in St Louis? Mountains in Texarkana?

I was happy to see Tex back. Tex's daughter is able to use a machine gun? Wow, she must have grown up in 5 months.

I can't figure out how these regional leaders so quickly took over the military. Presumably, parts of the military were still operating during the virus, so why would they give in so quickly to these regional leaders?

I always suspected that President Michner was killed by Allison's minions. She worked for Oliver when he was mayor of St Louis. Now she has become a leader in favour of breaking up the USA?

I liked the Peng -Katanyah showdown.

The show is very entertaining , if somewhat unrealistic. Too bad helicopter pilot, Jesse left. She was a cool character.

I can't wait for Chandler to come back to the USA & start kicking some a---.

[oakville]

5 hours ago, TheRabbi said:

The first 2 seasons always had a bit of cheese to go with the story, but man this was possibly the most ridiculous hour of television I have ever seen. Just so laughably bad and stupid. 

How about the geniuses who 'knew where Tex was going', yet apparently never bothered to look for him when they got there and just waltzed over to Kara? Many others have already been mentioned.

Shaw is such a laughably cartoonish villain, and I can't stand the way the actress is doing it.  I swear that some lines she knows are so completely ridiculous and you can kind of see the sadness on her face ("this is the best gig I could get?"). 

And how exactly was that press conference explained? 2 guys drag the president away, and the reporter correctly asks if he's a prisoner in his own white house, and then.....the government disbands?  

Then the montage at the end, with the 'transition' of the military, was so utterly absurd. I actually burst out laughing when the one guy went in for the strangulation via weight bar. One of the best unintentionally hilarious moments in a while.

I can't wait until this season is over.

I agree that Shaw is a cartoon villain. It's bizarre how the other reporters wouldn't question Oliver being manhandled by his guards.

It's unclear at this point how much power the Federal Government had at this point. It looks like it was able to get communications, electricity restored to most of the USA. They also produced food & alcohol with patriotic labels.

It would be interesting to see how these regional leaders rose to power.

[Netfoot]

17 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

So, now Chandler and the Nathan James have been branded as traitors to everyone in the USA

Funny how they don't have food, but they have national television.

13 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

Blammo!  A couple of days later, he is fit as a fiddle, and frisky, and kicking ass on the strike team!   

It seems that anyone can be a commando!

[Statman]

Kara not shooting Shaw when she had a clear shot ranks up there with long villain monologue as a ridiculous plot device.

Only two more episodes left so I totally expect this season to end on a cliffhanger with the James back in US waters and Chandler about to become the first overlord/President in US history.

[iMonrey]

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Peng just destroying a Japanese Heritage Museum pretty much for shits and giggles, has got to be the most cartoony yet.

And he would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for those meddlesome kids!

So if the show is now going to be about the coup in America, why in God's name did we waste the past eleven episodes on the Nathan James fighting pirates and trying to take down the evil President of China? What in the samhill did any of this crap have to do with what's going on back home in America?

And did I miss something? How did Captain Meylan go from being in the brig at the end of the last episode to being put in charge of the very ship he hijacked just a week ago?? WTF?

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Of course, had Kara actually just shot Allison, she probably could have solved a lot of problems.  Wrong time to be merciful, Kara! 

For that matter, why didn't Oliver just kill her during any one of the moments he was alone with her? He's gotta be twice her size and weight, and what are they going to do without her? She seems like the linchpin in this whole takeover plan.

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And how exactly was that press conference explained? 2 guys drag the president away, and the reporter correctly asks if he's a prisoner in his own white house, and then.....the government disbands? 

I know, right? Was that thing airing live? The President is dragged away, the reporter is yelling he's a prisoner in the White House, Shaw is trying to shut the whole thing down and the next thing you know she's on TV telling the world the President and the most heroic figure known to what's left of mankind are the terrorists. Not her, mind you, or the evil looking Regional Leaders standing behind her like robots. No, the President, and Chandler, are terrorists. Right. And . . . people are going to buy this?

Edited August 30, 2016 by iMonrey

[Joimiaroxeu]

Aw, sad to see the last of Hiroyuki Sanada. Hope to catch you on another show soon, buddy.

So, Helicopter Girl is gone but least we get to keep Wolf. And Tex is back!

Bet we're going to be in for a tour of South American countries next season. It's not as if the NJ can sail over the interstates to get to STL from San Diego.

[LocimusPrime]

• How do three hillbillies run up on and surprise Tex, a navy seal? 
• Killing that regional lady doesn't seem that hard. Her protection is minimal. Tex plus 2-3 guys should finish her off easily. 
• The prep scene on the NJ was cool. I've always like all black. Like a ninja

[LocimusPrime]

Why doesn't chandler ask the other Asian countries for help too. I'm sure the Philippines, Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, ect have ships they could lend to help fight Peng. 

[seacliffsal]

I have been enjoying the season and enjoyed this week's episode.  Yes, I do put reality on hold, but just seeing Tex again was fabulous.  Kara is kind of stupid, isn't she?  First she leaves a clear message about where and when she will be (after knowing the government is after her) and then letting Shaw live.  I appreciate that she felt a loyalty to the reporter, but Tex should not have had to remind her that the president was the priority.  

[raven]

Shaw is so over the top eeevil it's a bit much.   Kara not shooting her was so dumb - I get maybe she didn't want to be a cold blooded killer since Shaw was unarmed, but sparing her enabled Shaw to get the warning out and was probably the main reason Jacob the reporter didn't get away; and now he's dead, which sucks for him!  At least helpful Dennis insider guy apparently got out OK.  The actions at the press conference could be framed in a way that someone's attacking the President (a wanted fugitive shows up yelling questions) but what about the President's family that Shaw liked to threaten so much?  Did Tex & co round up them too? 

There must be some top military guy to coordinate all the military leader deaths.  What a blood bath.   Shaw and the other political types were sure able to assemble a team of minions pretty efficiently.

23 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So if the show is now going to be about the coup in America, why in God's name did we waste the past eleven episodes on the Nathan James fighting pirates and trying to take down the evil President of China?

It got them out of the way and the cabal's plan was that Peng would take out the NJ - you know this coup could not have gone down if Chandler was around. 

OK, the show's going off the deep end but I still enjoy it.  Now the NJ will be sailing around with another President once they meet up with Kara and Tex?  If the President makes a speech, Shaw will counter-speech that he's being coerced - speech, counter-speech, around we go ;)

Edited August 31, 2016 by raven

[LocimusPrime]

• Tex needs to round up some special forces homies and go finish off shaw
• Chandler needs to rebuild the US fleet by promoting all his senior officers as captains of new vessels. Loyal to him. 
• It's only been a few years, seems odd that people would all of the sudden lose patriotism and let the US be broken up into territories. That will never happen 
• There's about 500,000 enlisted navy personnel.  So at the 90% death rate, that leaves 50,000.  There's 200-300 on the NJ because they rescued the surviving sailors of the other ships. So where's the other 49,000? Heck he might as well gather all the remaining marines too 

[Hanahope]

Seriously Kara, you couldn't shoot Shaw, whom you know had a hand in killing the prior president?

And the territories have food problems, but can build huge/long walls around each other?

And how exactly is the NJ going to get to St. Louis?  Not quickly if it has to go through the Panama Canal (is it even still operating?) and then dock somewhere in the Gulf.

I bet the original 13 colonies had fewer people and they still managed to fill a Congress.  Its not like travel is that difficult and obviously they still have great communication (able to get the word out to murder the military leaders).

Edited August 31, 2016 by Hanahope

[BasilSeal]

On 30/08/2016 at 1:37 AM, iMonrey said:

And did I miss something? How did Captain Meylan go from being in the brig at the end of the last episode to being put in charge of the very ship he hijacked just a week ago?? WTF?

Presumably the bit where Meylan realises his mistake and comes round to chandler's way of thinking with absolute loyalty is languishing on the cutting room floor. Maylan has his own crew of sailors who would presumably be loyal to him rather than Chandler, and wouldn't simply stand by whilst Chandler's supporters effectively disobey an executive order from the commander in chief and stage a mutiny. At the end of the last episode Mayan says something to the effect that he was wavering to think that chandler might be right, but chandler's actions in taking back control by force have convinced him otherwise, but right at the start of this episode he's coming out to bat for team #chandler like nothing had happened, when did he undergo this road to Damascus style conversion?

I'm willing to cut TLS a fair bit of slack because it's an escapist action adventure, and it doesn't take itself too seriously, this particular episode required so much hand waving the viewer could have developed repetitive strain injury, i could let most of it slide but the editing slip with Maylan's apparent off screen volte face was just sloppy and showed a contempt both for the viewer and the actor concerned.

Poor old Jacob got the shitty end of the stick as well, he finally does something heroic and gets shot in the head for his trouble. His was the most thankless task on the show with the possible exception of the guys who survived the apocalypse only to get jobs as Tex's sidekicks

"So, i've joined team Tex, is there a uniform or anything?"

"not really, just put this ol' red shirt on..."

[Lonesome Rhodes]

5 hours ago, Hanahope said:

And how exactly is the NJ going to get to St. Louis?  Not quickly if it has to go through the Panama Canal (is it even still operating?) and then dock somewhere in the Gulf.

I bet the original 13 colonies had fewer people and they still managed to fill a Congress.  Its not like travel is that difficult and obviously they still have great communication (able to get the word out to murder the military leaders).

My guess is Chandler hope to make San Diego and convince the senior navy and Marine commanders that he is righteous and Shaw is not.  From there, with multiple assets, he would fashion a military win.

Amen to your comment about the complete lack of a Congress and any mention of creating one.  To me, this would be something which the basic citizen would demand and it would elicit significant mistrust of the Regional leadership. 

5 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

 

5 hours ago, BasilSeal said:

Presumably the bit where Meylan realises his mistake and comes round to chandler's way of thinking with absolute loyalty is languishing on the cutting room floor...when did he undergo this road to Damascus style conversion?

 

 

I'm not sure if he had a full conversion, or if he decided that since his people would be risking everything on a super tough mission, he volunteered to offer his best expertise, thereby potentially saving some of them.

His full conversion after it ended seems entirely reasonable with the developments out of St. Louis and the murders of senior commanders.

[FinnishViewer]

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So if the show is now going to be about the coup in America, why in God's name did we waste the past eleven episodes on the Nathan James fighting pirates and trying to take down the evil President of China? What in the samhill did any of this crap have to do with what's going on back home in America?

Chandler was sent there to get him out of the way. He was supposed to get killed in Asia. I think the logic goes like this; Chandler is a hero, and so they could not stage a coup with him there in the US. If they start the coup with him still there, people would rally to him, with him being a hero and all. They need to get him away and get killed in a way that does not implicate them. So they sent him to Asia for Peng to kill him.

[JackONeill]

4 minutes ago, FinnishViewer said:

Chandler was sent there to get him out of the way. He was supposed to get killed in Asia. I think the logic goes like this; Chandler is a hero, and so they could not stage a coup with him there in the US. If they start the coup with him still there, people would rally to him, with him being a hero and all. They need to get him away and get killed in a way that does not implicate them. So they sent him to Asia for Peng to kill him.

Agreed. But I think where the writers screwed up is that put way too much emphasis I on the Asian part of the story (yes, I know that's where Spideman Chandler is). But it took ELEVEN episodes only for them to show that is was the story happening in the US that was important. Now, maybe if early on, in episode 3 or 4, Chandler's Spidey senses started tingling and he said, "You know, I think there's something odd happening back in America, but we can't get there until we deal with this threat." Maybe if he had an early secret conversation with Kara and she said something right after Michner died (was killed), and he told her (ordered her) to do what she could, and to get Tex if necessary, THEN go to radio silence.

[xaxat]

The complexity of the coup is mind boggling given that they had a much simpler option for getting rid of Chander.

Let Scott's killer "escape" and help him finish the job while Chandler is still in St. Louis. 

[Raja]

1 hour ago, xaxat said:

The complexity of the coup is mind boggling given that they had a much simpler option for getting rid of Chander.

Let Scott's killer "escape" and help him finish the job while Chandler is still in St. Louis. 

You don't even need Dr Scott's killer. It seems among the survivors a whole lot of wannabes put on a Secret Service badge and believe it is "secret" because they have a license to kill and they are government hitmen.

[iMonrey]

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Presumably the bit where Meylan realises his mistake and comes round to chandler's way of thinking with absolute loyalty is languishing on the cutting room floor.

I suspect you're correct, which seems like a rather egregious error on the part of the editors. It strongly suggests the show runners don't really expect much of their audience beyond tuning  in each week to watch action porn. It's like there's some OCD action junkie in the editing room given the task of trimming the episode for time and says "Well people are just talking in this scene so let's cut that." 

I've always given this show credit for executing very good action scenes but at this point the show seems to exist for nothing else. The premise was exhausted last season and now it's just chugging along without purpose or aim so they can keep churning out action porn.

[FinnishViewer]

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I've always given this show credit for executing very good action scenes but at this point the show seems to exist for nothing else. The premise was exhausted last season and now it's just chugging along without purpose or aim so they can keep churning out action porn.

I don't think the action sequences are that good. If I want to watch good action sequences on TV, I'd rewatch Strike Back

[iMonrey]

They're good for weekly TV. They managed to crank 'em out every week. Plus there's ship porn. Torpedos and gunners and copters and shit like that. (Obviously, I'm not up on my naval artillery terminology, but you get my drift.) The show seems to be crafted around ways to shoot action-packed scenes.

[Raja]

On 8/30/2016 at 2:37 PM, LocimusPrime said:

Why doesn't chandler ask the other Asian countries for help too. I'm sure the Philippines, Vietnam, Korea, Thailand, ect have ships they could lend to help fight Peng. 

Besides Korea I don't think the other countries have the technology in their Navy ships to do anything in this sort of high technology fight. Besides the I am the savior of the world follow me into war against China isn't exactly going to get the volunteers rolling in.

On 8/29/2016 at 1:55 PM, Netfoot said:

 

It seems that anyone can be a commando!

 

On 8/28/2016 at 11:49 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 

A new level of discontinuity with Takeheya (Kaito).  He was on death's door on the NJ.  He was fading fast and the doc said there was nothing he could do anymore for him.  Blammo!  A couple of days later, he is fit as a fiddle, and frisky, and kicking ass on the strike team!   

 

Also wasn't Petty Officer Miller's leg just broken buy  Takehaya's pirate band before he swam over and boarded the Chinese ship. Speaking of which why was the SEAL and his Australian equivalent on the ground fighting to protect a museum when you have thought the special mission needing their particular set of skills was diving on and boarding a warship

[Dowel Jones]

Watched it a bit late due to other commitments, but I have to tip the hat to Capt. Slattery on how to fire a missile: "It's the same in every language".

On the other hand, as far as actual gonads go, I have to hand it to Shaw.  He might be President, but Oliver comes across as a guy who needs a recipe to boil an egg.  What would have made the press conference scene so much funnier would be for Oliver to reappear in a window, struggling, and the guards grabbing him again, but wait! He breaks free yet again and they finally beat him down with candlesticks, and all the reporters outside say "Wow, that was weird."

On 8/28/2016 at 11:49 PM, Lonesome Rhodes said:

By the by...where was all the sadness at the NJ casualties?

I assumed those were all members of Takehaya's crew and were thus emotionally expendable.

I didn't understand quite why the boarding team didn't just shoot the Chinese sailors when they burst into the bridge.  Not all of them, but remember, these guys are the enemy, and we're not playing fair anymore, and the fastest way to get compliance from the survivors is to immediately kill some of the group.

[BasilSeal]

4 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

I didn't understand quite why the boarding team didn't just shoot the Chinese sailors when they burst into the bridge.  Not all of them, but remember, these guys are the enemy, and we're not playing fair anymore, and the fastest way to get compliance from the survivors is to immediately kill some of the group.

Possibly because in this show the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad, and killing people just to make a point could be seen as a bit morally questionable. In an era where virtually every show now features characters who are morally conflicted and compromised, this show still sticks to the old conventions of having the heroes be morally beyond reproach with no grey areas around their actions.

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, BasilSeal said:

Possibly because in this show the good guys are good and the bad guys are bad, and killing people just to make a point could be seen as a bit morally questionable. In an era where virtually every show now features characters who are morally conflicted and compromised, this show still sticks to the old conventions of having the heroes be morally beyond reproach with no grey areas around their actions.

But that's the weird part -- they had no problem killing the guys on shore at the National Archives, so why not just shoot the entire bridge crew ?  Just because they weren't shooting back.

[LocimusPrime]

On September 1, 2016 at 7:16 PM, Raja said:

Besides Korea I don't think the other countries have the technology in their Navy ships to do anything in this sort of high technology fight. Besides the I am the savior of the world follow me into war against China isn't exactly going to get the volunteers rolling in.

 

Also wasn't Petty Officer Miller's leg just broken buy  Takehaya's pirate band before he swam over and boarded the Chinese ship. Speaking of which why was the SEAL and his Australian equivalent on the ground fighting to protect a museum when you have thought the special mission needing their particular set of skills was diving on and boarding a warship

Tawain, Vietnam, and Thailand all have decent size navies with aircraft carriers, submarines, and frigates and destroyers w misiles. Why wouldn't they want to destroy the country that is trying to kill off the rest of Asia. Makes no sense. Sure lets just let China has us lol 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

OK really late because I am catching up and binge watching.  Interesting motivation for Peng, really wish they explained it more, maybe even through Sasha's intel file on Peng, like mentioning how his grandmother was from Nanking and he espoused some very Chinese Nationalist views before the plague.  The actor for Peng was interviewed here:

http://thelastship.tv/exclusive-interviews-body/fernando-chien-interview/

He seems to say that was partly his motivation for the character.  And it isn't hard to imagine that the Americans didn't go guns blazing into the CIC and Bridge.  One, this was still a stealth mission, they were "taking control" of the ship by taking the head and the heart of it, but if gunfire rang out and the rest of the crew was alerted to an attack, then things would get dicey as the boarding team was severely outnumbered.  And the boarding team was fairly confident that the Chinese naval personnel wouldn't be armed, so no reason to go in blazing.  The Museum operation was different, there were active patrolling soldiers there, all fully armed, so definitely a situation where going in blazing was necessary.

Regarding other navies, considering the Chinese navy was down to 4 destroyers, it isn't surprising all the rest of the countries had no functioning navy.  

In terms of Meylin's conversion, but eventually, Meylin came completely around to Chandler when it was found on the Henan the coordinates of where the task group was going to be, confirming Chandler's theory there was a mole in the White House and a political coup.  

And the plot to get Chandler out of the way was two-fold, kill Chandler, but in doing so, cause Michner to lose faith in himself and then they could manipulate him the way the manipulated Oliver.  Just killing Chandler via some random shooting wouldn't work, it had to be because of Michner telling him to do something...such as going to China to broker an agreement with a madman.

Edited September 29, 2017 by HawaiiTVGuy

[BasilSeal]

20 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

n terms of Meylin's conversion, but eventually, Meylin came completely around to Chandler when it was found on the Henan the coordinates of where the task group was going to be, confirming Chandler's theory there was a mole in the White House and a political coup.  

it's a fair old time since i watched this episode now but as i recall, and going on what i posted above, Maylan goes from doubting chandler to being fully on chandler's side, and the point at which he changes his mind and realises that he's misjudged chandler isn't shown on screen, given that his is kind of an important moment, i thought that was a fairly big error.

now it could be that i simply nipped out to get a cup of tea at the crucial moment and missed Maylan's road to Damascus style team chandler conversion, but another poster above seems to agree with my suggestion what they cut the relevant scene so if it was there and i missed it i'm not the only one.

As i recall at this point in the show we were starting to get the feeling that the production crew had a bit of a 'will this do' attitude to the exposition stuff and basically just wanted to have as many scenes of attractive people shooting big guns as they can. Mind you, we're on season 4 now and they've turned the hand waiving stuff up to 11. apparently theres a 5th season already in the can and by the time we get to that i fully expect the show to consist entirely of shots of women in bikinis firing automatic weapons, like the spoof video 'chicks who love guns' from the film Jackie Brown.

I'll probably still watch it though.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

2 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

it's a fair old time since i watched this episode now but as i recall, and going on what i posted above, Maylan goes from doubting chandler to being fully on chandler's side, and the point at which he changes his mind and realises that he's misjudged chandler isn't shown on screen, given that his is kind of an important moment, i thought that was a fairly big error.

now it could be that i simply nipped out to get a cup of tea at the crucial moment and missed Maylan's road to Damascus style team chandler conversion, but another poster above seems to agree with my suggestion what they cut the relevant scene so if it was there and i missed it i'm not the only one.

As i recall at this point in the show we were starting to get the feeling that the production crew had a bit of a 'will this do' attitude to the exposition stuff and basically just wanted to have as many scenes of attractive people shooting big guns as they can. Mind you, we're on season 4 now and they've turned the hand waiving stuff up to 11. apparently theres a 5th season already in the can and by the time we get to that i fully expect the show to consist entirely of shots of women in bikinis firing automatic weapons, like the spoof video 'chicks who love guns' from the film Jackie Brown

I'll probably still watch it though.

At this point, after spending hours binge-watching, I am fully committed to the end, but I must say the start of Season 4 was not very promising.

My viewpoint regarding Maylan was that he was not agreeing with the methods of Chandler (staying to fight, working with the pirates etc.) but he at no time really believed he was a traitor.  He even went out of his way to try to find evidence to exonerate Chandler, and warned Slattery that at this point a court martial would find him guilty because there was no other evidence.  He was probably pretty pissed about the mutiny, but I think after seeing how the pirates were helping the crew and realizing that Peng was just utterly and completely evil, even if he didn't agree with the "logic" of the mission, he couldn't argue against the ethics, and it wasn't like he had any other option, there was no way he would do anything to compromise the mission, as if it happened, they would all sink, so why not help and defeat the SOB.  The entire time, he was willing to follow orders, albeit begrudgingly, until he received what he believed were orders to do opposite.  Now those orders to do opposite were not tenable (due to the mutiny) no reason not to help.  I think the scene regarding when they found the coordinates on the Henan which confirmed Chandler's mole theory came after the successful Museum mission was just icing on the cake and gave him peace of mind he did the right thing at the end.

[BasilSeal]

I agree with your reasoning as to Meylan's motivation, i don't think it's unrealistic or out of character that he changed his mind, my main grip, again, from memory of watching over a year ago, was that it appeared that Maylan's scenes had been sloppily edited.

6 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

At this point, after spending hours binge-watching, I am fully committed to the end, but I must say the start of Season 4 was not very promising.

The general consensus is that it isn't, but take heart, without spoiling it, we may yet gain some much needed motivation to watch the rest of season 4 if only to see if one poster's off the wall theory about one of the characters is correct. 

[HawaiiTVGuy]

36 minutes ago, BasilSeal said:

I agree with your reasoning as to Meylan's motivation, i don't think it's unrealistic or out of character that he changed his mind, my main grip, again, from memory of watching over a year ago, was that it appeared that Maylan's scenes had been sloppily edited.

The general consensus is that it isn't, but take heart, without spoiling it, we may yet gain some much needed motivation to watch the rest of season 4 if only to see if one poster's off the wall theory about one of the characters is correct. 

Thanks for giving me that hope!  I have to say, this series, does a great job of killing of relatively major characters, but doing so in the suitable amount of fanfare to the individual characters.  And kind of in a realistic manner, keeps you on the edge of your seat as to seeing if someone will live or die.  I actually thought Slattery might die when he got stabbed, just because, Chandler is back to be able to captain the ship.  And Maylan is quite capable of doing so too.

I have to say, Valkyrie suddenly dying in China was kind of crazy.  It seemed so random and unnecessary.  But I guess they wanted to show Wolfe as being a total man-whore when it comes to the ladies. :-P

[BasilSeal]

12 hours ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

have to say, Valkyrie suddenly dying in China was kind of crazy.  It seemed so random and unnecessary.  But I guess they wanted to show Wolfe as being a total man-whore when it comes to the ladies. :-P

killing off Val was disappointing and i think it was due to her special computer skillz she would have realised straight away that they were being bugged by the white house coup plotters, (or whatever plot device it was, i can't quite remember), and hence th first half of the season could have been dispensed with. In fact IIRC  it appears she does realise something is wrong as she looks at her laptop and then tells the pilots to turn the plane round and go back to chandler.

It seemed to me like the waste of a good character just because they couldn't think of a decent plot twist, though.

[oakville]

The show has got rid of many good characters. Val was cool.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

On 9/30/2017 at 3:12 AM, BasilSeal said:

killing off Val was disappointing and i think it was due to her special computer skillz she would have realised straight away that they were being bugged by the white house coup plotters, (or whatever plot device it was, i can't quite remember), and hence th first half of the season could have been dispensed with. In fact IIRC  it appears she does realise something is wrong as she looks at her laptop and then tells the pilots to turn the plane round and go back to chandler.

It seemed to me like the waste of a good character just because they couldn't think of a decent plot twist, though.

Yup, now I see it, they needed to off her because she had just discovered the conspiracy.  It was kind of extreme, but kind of made sense all the way around I guess since the bomb was originally meant to off Chandler.