S01.E13: That Was Very Greek of Us

[OnceSane]

A celebratory night out turns ugly; for the final charter, an all-male group brings its own set of demands, and an exhausted crew struggles to keep up; the women band together to confront Bryan; everyone prepares to say goodbye.

[Belowdeckchatter]

did they say on the preview that there was a love triangle? Since they all hate each other I was wondering who would be involved? Maybe I didn't hear right. Sorry

[biakbiak]

It's Tiffany, Hannah and Ben. Ben and Tiffany made out (it seems more than that in the preview) on the last episode and the preview shows a clip of Hannah and Ben kissing.

[annewithaneee]

Well, that whole season was an ugly mess. I don't come to Below Deck for anything high-brow, but there was nothing remotely satisfying about this one. I needed a really cathartic, dramatic firing (preferably, more than one!), a character whose work ethic I can admire and root for, and one or more who are genuinely amusing to watch. I liked Tiffany, mostly because I liked her MO - on the captain career track, getting experience in all positions on the boat to understand the inner workings of each layer - and because she got barely any screentime,and when she did was either perfectly pleasant or not objectionable. 

This ending really really pissed me off. They completely let Bobby off the hook. It is always okay to accept an apology without absolving the offender and erasing the fucked up things that they did. Especially when Bobby's constant refrain was the drink. Yeah, no. If drinking makes you shriek at your coworkers and call them c****, it's past time to stop drinking. Hopefully Bobby and Buttchin learn, sooner rather than later, that whiskey isn't a crutch for their toxic masculinity and deeply ingrained bullshit.

They basically all lost my respect in their reactions to Bobby and Bryan (except, again, for my girl Tiffany). Julia's participating in Bobby's terrible insta-love narrative and being all huggy and affectionate with him after everything, which means she either needs a spine or she was thriving on his attentions, as terrible as they were. Hannah and Ben deeming Bryan 'a 28 year old kid', no. He's in a job with a lot of serious responsibilities involved, and he's knocking on the door to his thirties. He is grown. He needs to learn how to deal with people who aren't blindly kissing his ass. Also maybe find a posture for when he's being soooo offended and affronted that doesn't involve pulling his chin even further into his neck, because that makes him look like a fuckboy turtle.

I had high hopes for Jen's parting shot to Bryan, until the slut-shaming non-sequitor about Tiffany. That was when it was clear to me that she was aiming for an on-camera moment rather than actually tearing into him.

Some random things that boggled my mind:

- Ben seriously called the island bartender "honey bunny". I guess he's really leaning into being a complete sleaze.

- This crew really ratcheted up the melodrama with their pairings. Hannah's never felt this way about anybody? He's a greasy-haired mistake, and they didn't even have sex, unless I blacked that out. Bobby was in love with Julia? They couldn't possibly have been saying all that nonsense sincerely. They do realize there's no Below Deck: Paradise, right? Knock it off with the Bachelor-esque platitudes.

[jkitty]

Love how Bryan leaves his anti-misogyny training session and says "those chicks" just tried to tell him how to treat women. What a fucking idiot. Point = missed.

I wish Jules had handed it to Bobby more. Even if she was flirty with him initially, she laid down the law with him multiple times. But Bobby says he is in love with her and it is her fault. I would have told him he was delusional and walked away. He did not deserve her forgiveness or a chance to lay his baggage on her again. 

I also wish Jen was more articulate and quicker witted. Someone should have put Bryan in his place but she does not have the mental dexterity to do it. And that is saying something because Bryan is hardly an intellectual gymnast himself. 

Hannah won the night with the line that Bryan was circling the boat looking for where he placed his dignity. She has her flaws but at least she is witty and entertaining. 

[jkitty]

19 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

Well, that whole season was an ugly mess. I don't come to Below Deck for anything high-brow, but there was nothing remotely satisfying about this one. I needed a really cathartic, dramatic firing (preferably, more than one!), a character whose work ethic I can admire and root for, and one or more who are genuinely amusing to watch. I liked Tiffany, mostly because I liked her MO - on the captain career track, getting experience in all positions on the boat to understand the inner workings of each layer - and because she got barely any screentime,and when she did was either perfectly pleasant or not objectionable. 

This ending really really pissed me off. They completely let Bobby off the hook. It is always okay to accept an apology without absolving the offender and erasing the fucked up things that they did. Especially when Bobby's constant refrain was the drink. Yeah, no. If drinking makes you shriek at your coworkers and call them c****, it's past time to stop drinking. Hopefully Bobby and Buttchin learn, sooner rather than later, that whiskey isn't a crutch for their toxic masculinity and deeply ingrained bullshit.

They basically all lost my respect in their reactions to Bobby and Bryan (except, again, for my girl Tiffany). Julia's participating in Bobby's terrible insta-love narrative and being all huggy and affectionate with him after everything, which means she either needs a spine or she was thriving on his attentions, as terrible as they were. Hannah and Ben deeming Bryan 'a 28 year old kid', no. He's in a job with a lot of serious responsibilities involved, and he's knocking on the door to his thirties. He is grown. He needs to learn how to deal with people who aren't blindly kissing his ass. Also maybe find a posture for when he's being soooo offended and affronted that doesn't involve pulling his chin even further into his neck, because that makes him look like a fuckboy turtle.

I had high hopes for Jen's parting shot to Bryan, until the slut-shaming non-sequitor about Tiffany. That was when it was clear to me that she was aiming for an on-camera moment rather than actually tearing into him.

Some random things that boggled my mind:

- Ben seriously called the island bartender "honey bunny". I guess he's really leaning into being a complete sleaze.

- This crew really ratcheted up the melodrama with their pairings. Hannah's never felt this way about anybody? He's a greasy-haired mistake, and they didn't even have sex, unless I blacked that out. Bobby was in love with Julia? They couldn't possibly have been saying all that nonsense sincerely. They do realize there's no Below Deck: Paradise, right? Knock it off with the Bachelor-esque platitudes.

This post is everything I am currently lacking the energy and wit to write. Perfection. You nailed it. 

[HunterHunted]

I think the fact that Bobby and Bryan were busy having a drunken homosocial flex off while Ben has the two single (non lesbians) women hitting on him is perhaps some of the greatest karmic justice to come from this season.

Bobby's confession of love was gross. Everything he said was weirdly externalizing and blamey. It was all "you've done this to my head," "I've been waiting for you," "it's your fault," "you made me feel this way." If he had talked about all of Jules' good qualities and why he was attracted to her because of these qualities, it might have been slightly palatable. If he even said that he had wished he could have met her earlier or something, but nope he has to make it all about himself. Such a prize.

Bryan is beyond repulsive. It's not surprising that he could sit down with 4 women that he worked with to varying degrees, hear the same criticism from all of them, and completely fucking miss the point. There is nothing that will make him realize how awful he is. Not a firing, not a lawsuit, and probably not criminal charges. I guess I can take some comfort that he has memorialized himself forever as a humongous misogynist.

[KBrownie]

Hannah discussing Ben and Tiffany having sex on the last night of the charter made her look sort of pathetic and showed what a mean girl she can be.  I mean, I found her hanging all over Ben when Ben had made it clear he wasn't interested in her like that and after everyone had seen and heard about Ben and Tiffany making out to be sort of pathetic already, but her talking about Tiffany the next day was beyond the pale.  She was so thirsty hanging all over Ben and talking about how she loved him and he her.  So desperate.  And wasn't it sort of common knowledge by now that Ben and Tiffany were into each other?  

She just thinks so much of herself.  Her talking about how Ben was confused and how he wasn't ready for a woman like her was disgusting.  Hey, Hannah?  Maybe he just doesn't like you like that.  It's like she just can't imagine that he doesn't want want her and prefers Tiffany to her.  Her brain and ego couldn't compute that, so she has to bash Tiffany instead.  She reminded me of Bobby calling those women who those guests brought back to the boat "busted" because they weren't impressed by him.

[Talky Tina]

@KBrownie, I was coming to say the same thing about Hannah, didn't she do the same with Bobby?  I remember her hanging on him and trying to kiss him when everyone knew he liked Julia,  I'd have been a little embarrassed. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by Talky Tina

[HunterHunted]

I wish that the show had a chance to focus on the Reed's ginger guys and the product. They seemed like nice guys. I love ginger beer. I like Reed's, but I love Goya and my own homebrew when I'm not feeling lazy. The thing I appreciate most about Reed's is that before it came on the market, the only places you could get ginger beer was international grocery stores. Back then, I would find myself buying a case or two and schlepping them back to my apartment. I appreciate that Reed's let regular grocery stores know that there was a market for this product.

[forum4idiots]

my goodness, give it up, hannah.  ben is not interested.  how much more clearly can he make it known to you?

hi, i'm julia and i always cry because i'm always the victim.  i blow things out of proportion......and make myself a victim.  i also cry cause my work is so hard...so much harder than the rest of the crew because i'm julia.

hi, i'm jenn.  remember me?  i decided to make an impression the last few episodes because none of you really realized i was on board the whole season.  but they had to have a token gay/lesbian personality on the show so i signed up.  but i was so boring that production told me to stir things up to make people notice me that i was actually on board.

i love the "treat women as equals" conversation.........from what i can see, the guys did treat the women as equals, lol.  if they treated them any  more equally, there would be a brawl.  jenn gets it.  she got in bryan's face.  what hannah and julia were looking for is not equal treatment.....but "special treatment".  kind of irked by this women's lib equal treatment holier than though attitude......they yell equal this and that, but then turns around and say you can't say this to women, you can't do that in front of women......well......which is it?  yes, the men were frat boys douchey.....but please, the women were not that sane either...except tiffany.  tiffany is the coolest, sane, and real one there.  luv her.  she gets it.   hate these comments......but it's the truth. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by lovebug1975

[biakbiak]

I am glad the guests weren't assholes because I like Reeds Ginger Beer why couldn't they have had a longer charter! 

Hannah that was just straight up embarassing.

[rho]

2 hours ago, jkitty said:

I also wish Jen was more articulate and quicker witted. Someone should have put Bryan in his place but she does not have the mental dexterity to do it. And that is saying something because Bryan is hardly an intellectual gymnast himself. 

Me too! I haven't been in Jen's corner all season but I was all about her when she pulled Bryan aside...right up until her stupid non sequitur about Tiffany. It did nothing to get her message across to Bryan and only made me despise her. The entire deck crew is socially inept. Kind of makes me wonder what kind of people are attracted to this line of work.

And I'm starting to think Hannah caught some of that puppy love from Bobby? It's like every time Ben says "I'm sorry we didn't get along" she hears "I love you, too!!" instead. The only difference between Hannah and Bobby is that she doesn't have a violent streak. 

What a weird season. I think we can call this little Med experiment a wash.

[candall]

59 minutes ago, Talky Tina said:

@KBrownie, I was coming to say the same thing about Hannah, didn't she do the same with Bobby?  I remember her hanging on him and trying to kiss him when everyone knew he liked Julia,  I'd have been a little embarrassed. 

Yeow, I was cringing on Hannah's behalf during her tête-à-tête with Ben that last night.  When she tried to kiss him, he turned his face--so she got a firm grip on his head and finally landed one.  HANNAH!  Buy a clue--he's just not that into you.  Even when she was looking for him and heard he'd borrowed condoms, she still tracked him down like a bloodhound.  And then naturally she had to salve her wounded pride by throwing some shade at Tiffany.  Yikes.  Poor form, dear.

 

And what the hell, show?!  You played clips of Tiffany moving up and down on top of Ben, complete with audio???  Multiple clips that went on long enough for my CC to register "[moaning]" three separate times?  Keepin' it classy there in the Greek Islands, Below Deck Med.

 

.

Edited July 27, 2016 by candall

[ivygirl]

"Below Deck vacation... The antidote for socialization..."

[rehoboth]

The "showdown" with Bryan was staged like an intervention and when you start something like that you need to lead with things like "You're a great guy BUT there are some things you could have handled better...."  Or "You have a bright future and we wanted to share some tips for your next voyage that will make you an even better First Mate."  Or even "We want to help you out by letting you know how we felt when you towered over us issuing orders.  The message was fine but the deliver needs improvement."  That's how you get a guy like Bryan to actually listen to your message.  Throwing out slogans like "Treat women better" and "Women are your equals" does nothing to improve anything.  Did they think about what they wanted to say beforehand?

I did love Tiffany during the talk.  She threw out a summary of their grievances ("Treat women better!") right off the bat and then her face was like "Can I go now?"  She wanted no part of "bettering" Bryan.

[Fostersmom]

Best part of the episode was the previews for the new season of the other Below Deck in September. 

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Hannah discussing Ben and Tiffany having sex on the last night of the charter made her look sort of pathetic and showed what a mean girl she can be.  I mean, I found her hanging all over Ben when Ben had made it clear he wasn't interested in her like that and after everyone had seen and heard about Ben and Tiffany making out to be sort of pathetic already, but her talking about Tiffany the next day was beyond the pale.  She was so thirsty hanging all over Ben and talking about how she loved him and he her.  So desperate.  And wasn't it sort of common knowledge by now that Ben and Tiffany were into each other?  

She just thinks so much of herself.  Her talking about how Ben was confused and how he wasn't ready for a woman like her was disgusting.  Hey, Hannah?  Maybe he just doesn't like you like that.  It's like she just can't imagine that he doesn't want want her and prefers Tiffany to her.  Her brain and ego couldn't compute that, so she has to bash Tiffany instead.  She reminded me of Bobby calling those women who those guests brought back to the boat "busted" because they weren't impressed by him.

I agree with this, but Hannah was right about Tiffany, except that I'd call her "no maintenance."  Nothing wrong with that, that's what she is.  I think Ben liked Hannah but didn't want to get into it with another Chief Stew because of what happened between he and Kate.  IMO Hannah was WAY better looking than Tiffany, who, to me looked about twelve, but YMMV.  Also, when Ben was crying about what Julia said about him, who comforted him?  Tiffany?  No, Hannah.  I kind of think Ben sees Hannah more as a friend and doesn't want to fuck things up with her by having sex with her, as Ben said, he's not there to look for a wife. 

I didn't like Tiffany or Jen because both of them seemed like they thought their jobs were beneath them.  Hannah, I feel, likes being a Chief Stew, and I really appreciate that. 

Why did Jen feel the need to tell Bryan of all people that Tiffany and Ben slept together the night before?  Tiffany told that to Jen, in confidence, I think and Jen just blabbed it to Bryan.  I mean what was that about?

Bryan was an ass, he should have told Bobby to knock it off, when he was yelling at Julia and the other women. 

I've been in recovery for over twenty years and yes, I know that alcohol can totally make someone do a 180, and if it does, maybe they shouldn't drink at all.  Hannah's like that too.

I get why Julia forgave Bobby, better to forgive someone than to have a constant resentment against the person and allow them to live rent free in your head.  Julia forgave him but was like, "you ain't got a chance with me bub."  When Bobby was telling Julia how he's been treated badly by other women, I wonder if it's because he falls in love with them so quickly.  When Bobby and Hannah were on WWHL, someone wrote or called and said they thought Bobby and Hannah would make a cute couple and Hannah had this look on her face like, "I don't think so."

[candall]

32 minutes ago, Fostersmom said:

Best part of the episode was the previews for the new season of the other Below Deck in September. 

Yes, that was a soothing moment in all the finale chaos.  I liked Captain Mark, in general, and felt bad for him that he didn't seem sufficiently prepped for a "TV Production Crew," but it was extremely difficult to watch him heaping more praise on Bryan. (I wonder if he's stunned when he watches the footage, or he just chalks it all up to "editing.")

Meanwhile, it was refreshing to see Captain Lee snarl, "Get over here. . . so I can bash your head in."  Yay.  These children need a firm hand.

[bichonblitz]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I've been in recovery for over twenty years and yes, I know that alcohol can totally make someone do a 180, and if it does, maybe they shouldn't drink at all.  Hannah's like that too.

Yessss! I kept waiting for Julia to tell Bobby that he has a problem with alcohol and when he drinks, he a nasty, belligerent, scary piece of shit. But she didn't ! 

I also agree about Hannah as well.  She's sloppy and mean when she's had too much.  How embarrassing must it be when you throw your practically naked body at Ben and Bobby and they still don't want you! 

Those last charter guests were awesome. Was it really the biggest tip of the season, though? Or they all just got a bigger amount because there was one less deckhand (Danny) to split it with? 

[McManda]

Quote

Why did Jen feel the need to tell Bryan of all people that Tiffany and Ben slept together the night before?  Tiffany told that to Jen, in confidence, I think and Jen just blabbed it to Bryan.  I mean what was that about?

Jen was wrong to tell anyone because Tiffany explicitly told not to blab.

But she told Bryan because she thought it would be a dig on his macho ego. Ben had done what Bryan failed to do - get into Tiffany's pants. 

Pretty sure that Bryan didn't catch the burn, or he really didn't care because he's already convinced himself that his failed attempt at sex with Tiffany was because she's a bitch. Probably both. 

Edited July 27, 2016 by McManda

[RemoteControlFreak]

9 hours ago, lovebug1975 said:

i love the "treat women as equals" conversation.........from what i can see, the guys did treat the women as equals, lol.  if they treated them any  more equally, there would be a brawl.  jenn gets it.  she got in bryan's face.  what hannah and julia were looking for is not equal treatment.....but "special treatment".  kind of irked by this women's lib equal treatment holier than though attitude......they yell equal this and that, but then turns around and say you can't say this to women, you can't do that in front of women......well......which is it?  yes, the men were frat boys douchey.....but please, the women were not that sane either...except tiffany.  tiffany is the coolest, sane, and real one there.  luv her.  she gets it.   hate these comments......but it's the truth. 

The conversation was not about treating women as equals as much as it was about treating women with respect and fairness. This is different. It's about not giving the men who work under you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing every job skill, but requiring women to prove themselves first.  It's about not standing up for the men who work for you when they obviously are breaking the rules.  It's about not allowing men who work for you to call the women who work for you "c****."

[Barb23]

Will there be a reunion?  I hope so.   I can't wait to hear Capt. Mark's take on things after he has watched the shows.  You could tell Bryan was worried that Ben & Hannah were going to spill the beans when they were discussing the new charter.

There was no way I would have forgiven Bobby for his behavior as easily as this group did.  It seemed they picked on Danny more when he was sick than how they treated Bobby when he was drunk.  (I realize Danny had other things working against him) It's not just the booze either. That guy has some major anger management issues that are exaserbated by alcohol.  Why does he drink himself into oblivion every time they go out only to end up having to apologize for his actions? Bryan's not far behind him. 

I have a safety question.  Why are they allowed to get away with this type of drunken behavior?  How safe it is for any of the crew to get plastered & then come back on the boat?   What if there was a fire or other emergency?  Bobby wouldn't be able to remember or comprehend any directions (even if he is a fireman) & would have put his fellow crew members at risk. I know they aren't on charter when it happens, but I would think there should be some rules as to how they act on or off charter.  Someone posted something similar that even when they aren't working, they are still representing the yacht & should act accordingly. 

Why did Bryan think him & Ben were great buddies? I think I missed something.  Only time I saw them together was when Bryan was in the shadows leering at Ben & Tiff (Or Hannah) making hand gestures & wishing he was Ben. I think it was great that Ben had two women after him & Bryan didn't have any.  I guess he's not the chick magnet he thinks he is.  

I guess Bryan didn't get the memo that you shouldn't discuss a worker (Danny) with another worker (Bobby) both  beneath you in rank.  I hope Bryan had to pay for (Danny's) shirt that he ripped the epaulets off of.  What was the purpose of that?  Not good managerial behavior in my book, acting like a kindergartener "well I'll show you" type of thing. Maybe they have different rules working on a yacht.

[Neurochick]

11 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The conversation was not about treating women as equals as much as it was about treating women with respect and fairness. This is different. It's about not giving the men who work under you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing every job skill, but requiring women to prove themselves first.  It's about not standing up for the men who work for you when they obviously are breaking the rules.  It's about not allowing men who work for you to call the women who work for you "c****."

The problem with Bryan was that he wanted to be friends with Bobby, rather than discipline him, which he should have done when he wanted to take a woman on the boat.

It's not that women want "special treatment" it's that women want fair treatment.  If you discipline one person, then discipline them all.  Bryan didn't like Danny, so he treated him badly, and IMO that's unprofessional; he didn't like Jen, so he was always on her case.  Bryan liked Bobby, so he let him do what he wanted. 

[FanOfTheFans]

Great comments.  You guys really have the cast figured out. The only thing I can add that I thought was amusing was Hannah redeeming herself with her comment about the Americans.  She praised this group quite a lot.  I wonder if she took some guff over her negative comments earlier about the ugly Americans with the cruise group from hell. 

[Primetimer]

But that's not happening, so let's see who's a buoy and who's a barnacle one last time.

View the full article

[Neurochick]

When Hannah said Tiffany was "low maintenance" I didn't see that as a put down at all.  For me, low maintenance means a person who is easy (not sexually easy), who doesn't require a lot of pampering, a lot of attention, a lot of things.

Ben said that he's not looking for a wife, he wanted to sleep with a woman who wasn't going to get all weird with him and say, "I love you, why didn't you call me last night?  Are we going steady?"  I have a feeling Hannah might be someone like that, which isn't a bad thing, it's just that Hannah might require a lot more care than someone like Tiffany, who isn't exactly where she wants to be yet.  Hannah seems to like where she is in her life and probably would like a partner to share it with, but if everybody else is still trying to figure out who they are and what they want, they wouldn't want to be with someone like Hannah. 

I looked at Hannah's IG, it looks like she lives in the South of France.

[mytmo]

So disappointed that Julia's boyfriend did not meet her at the dock and punched Bobby's face in.  She could not get off this boat fast enough.  It seemed to me she was playing nice with Bobby.  Gawd I hate that man!

[pasdetrois]

I think Ben sends mixed signals. At the end of his TH he said something like he wished he could have spent more time with Hannah and hopes he can spend more time with her. He's keeping her on the line; he had the same dynamic with the other chief stew.

Julia is attracted to Bobby but is determined to be loyal to her boyfriend. She did flirt with him in earlier episodes.

Captain Mark tried to keep it professional and above-board. He may decide he can't deal with reality TV.

I've started to tire of the heavy producer manipulations.

[forum4idiots]

3 hours ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

The conversation was not about treating women as equals as much as it was about treating women with respect and fairness. This is different. It's about not giving the men who work under you the benefit of the doubt for not knowing every job skill, but requiring women to prove themselves first.  It's about not standing up for the men who work for you when they obviously are breaking the rules.  It's about not allowing men who work for you to call the women who work for you "c****."

actually, it was....that was julia's quote....the so called "victim".  and wasn't bobby who called her a c***, not bobby? (not sure on this, but pretty sure)  so that issue was not bryan's.  that whole "gang up" was personal and originated from...guess who, someone who couldn't tie a knot and refused to tie a knot....jenn.  she "felt" ostraczied...guess what.  if you won't do what you were tod, like tie a proper knot to his specifications, then you will get singled out.

you're right that this is different...this was a personal attack.  if they wanted fair treatment, they should have gone to captain mark, through proper channels, and not gang up on him.  as they said, it was a supposed personal advise....because jenn egged the girls on.  and it's just amazing everyone missed the point that jenn was the sore one egging this on, the bad employee who admits flew under the radar on her bad performance because of danny......and this was all the more telling on their farewell....her sad attempt to hurt bryan with a personal attack on ben and tiff having sex....pretty sad.

requiring women to prove themselves first?  ummm, hello.....daniel?

[forum4idiots]

9 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

"I think Ben sends mixed signals. At the end of his TH he said something like he wished he could have spent more time with Hannah and hopes he can spend more time with her. He's keeping her on the line; he had the same dynamic with the other chief stew.

Julia is attracted to Bobby but is determined to be loyal to her boyfriend. She did flirt with him in earlier episodes.

Captain Mark tried to keep it professional and above-board. He may decide he can't deal with reality TV.

I've started to tire of the heavy producer manipulations."

well, i think this cane be said about most men, lol.

julia was just annoying and fails to take responsibility for the problems she creates fro herself.  flirting with bobby and then pulling back....somehow she made herself a victim on that one.  beign overworked and making it seemed like she was working more hours than anyone and crying about it, making herself a victim.....hey, she signed up for it s why even make it seem like she's a "victim".  every episode she seems to cry about something....criossants, the guests, bobby.........FFS.

9 minutes ago, pasdetrois said:

 

 

Edited July 27, 2016 by lovebug1975

[esco1822]

7 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

"I think Ben sends mixed signals."

Yeah he phrased it something like Hannah and I never got a chance to connect but I'm hoping that will change in the future.  I wholeheartedly believe he thought this was his only shot at Tiffany so he had to take it but Hannah is someone he wants to be in his life on an ongoing basis.  Who knows what capacity but in SOME capacity. 

[dleighg]

If I was paying that much for a yacht I would not particularly enjoy sharing a double bed with a non-romantic-partner! Those shots of men bunked on couches was pretty darn sad! They took it well.

[RemoteControlFreak]

55 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

actually, it was....that was julia's quote....the so called "victim".  and wasn't bobby who called her a c***, not bobby? (not sure on this, but pretty sure)  so that issue was not bryan's.  that whole "gang up" was personal and originated from...guess who, someone who couldn't tie a knot and refused to tie a knot....jenn.  she "felt" ostraczied...guess what.  if you won't do what you were tod, like tie a proper knot to his specifications, then you will get singled out.

you're right that this is different...this was a personal attack.  if they wanted fair treatment, they should have gone to captain mark, through proper channels, and not gang up on him.  as they said, it was a supposed personal advise....because jenn egged the girls on.  and it's just amazing everyone missed the point that jenn was the sore one egging this on, the bad employee who admits flew under the radar on her bad performance because of danny......and this was all the more telling on their farewell....her sad attempt to hurt bryan with a personal attack on ben and tiff having sex....pretty sad.

requiring women to prove themselves first?  ummm, hello.....daniel?

Julia did use the word "equal" toward the end of the encounter, but that's not what the situation was about.  As I said in my post, it was about treating women fairly and with respect.  But even if it was about equality, Bryan failed massively at that also.  None of the deckhands -- neither Danny, Jen, nor Bobby had much experience, though Jen had the most -- but Bryan became buddies with Bobby and Bobby could no wrong while Danny and Jen could do no right. That's not equality. 

As for Danny, he unlike Jen, was assumed by Bryan to have competence from the beginning. He proved he didn't have any skill or interest in working hard at his job, but he at least started with an assumption of competence in Bryan's eyes, something that Jen never got despite the fact that she came into the job with the most experience.

[jumper sage]

16 hours ago, jkitty said:

I wish Jules had handed it to Bobby more. Even if she was flirty with him initially, she laid down the law with him multiple times. But Bobby says he is in love with her and it is her fault. I would have told him he was delusional and walked away. He did not deserve her forgiveness or a chance to lay his baggage on her again. 

If she had caved and said she would leave her bf for him then she would have reinforced the very thing he says is wrong with the women he has dated.

4 hours ago, Barb23 said:

I guess Bryan didn't get the memo that you shouldn't discuss a worker (Danny) with another worker (Bobby) both  beneath you in rank.  I hope Bryan had to pay for (Danny's) shirt that he ripped the epaulets off of.  What was the purpose of that?  Not good managerial behavior in my book, acting like a kindergartener "well I'll show you" type of thing. Maybe they have different rules working on a yacht.

Actually that is assault.  On land in the U.S. at least.

15 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Bobby's confession of love was gross. Everything he said was weirdly externalizing and blamey. It was all "you've done this to my head," "I've been waiting for you," "it's your fault," "you made me feel this way."

Anyone else feel this could make an excellent line in a slasher movie?

[RemoteControlFreak]

1 hour ago, lovebug1975 said:

you're right that this is different...this was a personal attack.  if they wanted fair treatment, they should have gone to captain mark, through proper channels, and not gang up on him.  as they said, it was a supposed personal advise....because jenn egged the girls on.  and it's just amazing everyone missed the point that jenn was the sore one egging this on, the bad employee who admits flew under the radar on her bad performance because of danny......and this was all the more telling on their farewell....her sad attempt to hurt bryan with a personal attack on ben and tiff having sex....pretty sad.

Hannah was pretty clear that she didn't believe in going to the captain to rat out her co-workers. And personal attack? Hardly.  The intent, and I agree it could have been better executed, was to give Bryan some tips on how to work with, and manage, women going forward in his career.  As we've seen all season, he's not open to any input or advice so he took it as an attack.  

[escatefromny]

1 hour ago, dleighg said:

If I was paying that much for a yacht I would not particularly enjoy sharing a double bed with a non-romantic-partner! Those shots of men bunked on couches was pretty darn sad! They took it well.

Definitely awkward for them and it really bugged me that Hannah couldn't be bothered to set up the guest for deck sleeping.  Would it have killed her to make up a little bed on the deck chair (like they do in First Class on airplanes for example).  Poor guy was using a bathrobe as a blanket?!?  Hard to believe she couldn't manage to find a blanket or throw.  Certainly not "five star" service.  I wonder if the issue with sleeping arrangements was the cause for cutting the trip short.

[forum4idiots]

1 hour ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Julia did use the word "equal" toward the end of the encounter, but that's not what the situation was about.  As I said in my post, it was about treating women fairly and with respect.  But even if it was about equality, Bryan failed massively at that also.  None of the deckhands -- neither Danny, Jen, nor Bobby had much experience, though Jen had the most -- but Bryan became buddies with Bobby and Bobby could no wrong while Danny and Jen could do no right. That's not equality. 

As for Danny, he unlike Jen, was assumed by Bryan to have competence from the beginning. He proved he didn't have any skill or interest in working hard at his job, but he at least started with an assumption of competence in Bryan's eyes, something that Jen never got despite the fact that she came into the job with the most experience.

right, it was never about that.  it was a personal attack that jenn instigated.  it wasn't abut being treated fairly.  if jenn just did what was asked of her...tie a freaking knot the way she was told to instead of having a crude remark then there would have been no issue, would there?  jenn was trying to justify that.  she was a bad employee, woman or man.  talking to his superiors like that regardless of how bad that superior might be.  even on duty  bobby never did any of that.  he never went to bryan and say i tie my own kind of knots.  it was bobby's attitude that got him to that level with bryan.....just as it was jenn's attitude and danny's attitude that got them to where they were at with bryan.  bryan tried to be civil at the farewell, but jenn just went shallow and pointed out the sex and the alcohol........yeah, why would anyone like that even deserve respect?  she was treated fairly, actually, even better.  when she refused to tie a knot, bryan did not yell at him like a whacko the way he yelled at danny when he fucks up......if fair treatment was what she was looking for, she would have been yelled at like danny would have been.  as much as bryan failed massive at being a boss, jenn failed just as much.  and to bring "women" from a different department to gang up on him who KNEW NOTHING of what went on with her work habits, that is SHADY at best.  and for julia to take the lead and bring up and i quote, "treat women as equals" is laughable.  had bryan treated jenn equally, she would have been yelled at and scolded like danny...but as jenn admitted, she flew under the radar because of danny (who got the full force of bryan's frustration).  now ask yourself, had jenn been a guy and refused to tie that know the way she was asked to, you think bryan would not have fired his ass on gotten a yelling for it?  had jenn been a guy and brought up that farewell low blow of tiff/ben sex and alcohol issue, that bryan would have just let it be and not clunked a guy for being that douchey?  jenn pulled many douche moves that got a pass "because" she was a woman....and yet whined that she didn't get fair treatment?  she got better treatment because she was a woman.  bringing bobby up as an example is horrible because anytime bobby was on the clock, he actually DID do a good job.  he never complained.   he did what he was told.  had jenn had the same ATTITUDE bobby had, do you think maybe bryan would be thick as thieves too?  absolutely.  jenn poisoned her own drink with bryan but she just doesn't want to take responsibility.  and for bryan to be blamed for the "c***" word when i think it was bobby who said it was just sad.  and for them to ambush the gy instead of going through the proper channels....it seems rather obvious that jenn already thought that through and her "accusations" of being unfairly treated won't hold water because she never followed orders half the time...even the simplest ones.  she always had an off hand remark.

Edited July 27, 2016 by lovebug1975

[forum4idiots]

36 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

Hannah was pretty clear that she didn't believe in going to the captain to rat out her co-workers. And personal attack? Hardly.  The intent, and I agree it could have been better executed, was to give Bryan some tips on how to work with, and manage, women going forward in his career.  As we've seen all season, he's not open to any input or advice so he took it as an attack.  

to rat out workers on what they did off duty and the fact that the woman was not brought on board?  that was a cop out quote fro holier than thou hannah when she knew full well it won't hold any water  because the woman never was brought on board and what went on with them on the mini boat was off duty and personal.

what hannah got was hearsay from jenn...from a personal hardly reliable since we already saw that she was clearly insubordinate.  and hannah is hardly one to give tips on work habits after that hellish crew fiasco she demonstrated and her interactions with ben.........miss hannah who also is not open to inputs and advice.  she should be second stew, at best, not chief stew.

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, lovebug1975 said:

 

julia was just annoying and fails to take responsibility for the problems she creates fro herself.  flirting with bobby and then pulling back....somehow she made herself a victim on that one. 

Okay, so I get Julia playing victim is something you felt strongly about throughout the season and that Julia pretty much mishandled different things that resulted in her whining so I'm not going to argue those points. However I'm stuck on the above portion I quoted. From what we saw, we saw Julia in the VERY first few episodes be friendly with Bobby to the point of flirtatious. I'll begrudgingly agree to that however Julia early on made it clear that she would not be doing anything that would jeopardize her relationship. She made it clear that she planned on staying loyal to her boyfriend and that was that so I'm not understanding this whole "pulling back" and then "making herself the victim" narrative that's going on. She WAS the victim of Bobby's disrespectful advances. Nothing changes that. A woman isn't a "fake" victim because she initially welcomed some flirtatious behavior but then acknowledge things were unable to move any further due to whatever details but still gets borderline harassing attention from a man.  Just because the circumstance are unfortunate for the man in the situation doesn't mean it's some outrageous crime that deserves such penalties as aggressiveness, nastiness and rude disrespect from the man being rejected. Men need to grow the fuck up. A woman not going along with what a man may have seen as a promising connection doesn't mean it's open season on the woman and all hell should break loose. Really? So it's all or none and the results are anything goes anger wise, all because a man doesn't get his happy ending? (Figurative and literally). That's what I mean about some sad realities in this world. If I get rejected by a man then that's it. No need for theatrics, pouting and whining. Hell we had an example with Hannah. Sure, Ben didn't bite all season however he did engage in some flirty, friendly interactions with pretty much all the women. You see anyone being aggressively offensive and insulting to him? Not that fucking serious. Lick your wounds, shrug it off and keeping it moving. Bobby's angle is as if Julia strung him along and so he has every right to be disrespectful to her when that wasn't even the case. The level of anger and or disappointment that men are allowed to feel because they don't get to conquest a woman is rather scary and for some reason something a woman has no right to be offended by. But a man? Give off the slightest possibility that banging could be in the future (usually just a smile sets this narrative off in a man's head) and you're the teasing bitch that fucked with his mind and deserves his wrath afterwards.  Ugghhh, I just can't.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Yours Truly

[forum4idiots]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Okay, so I get Julia playing victim is something you felt strongly about throughout the season and that Julia pretty much mishandled different things that resulted in her whining so I'm not going to argue those points. However I stuck on the above portion I quoted. From what we saw, we saw Julia in the VERY first few episodes be friendly with Bobby to the point of flirtatious. I'll begrudgingly agree to that however Julia early on made it clear that she would not be doing anything that would jeopardize her relationship. She made it clear that she planned on staying loyal to her boyfriend and that was that so I'm not understanding this whole "pulling back" and then "making herself the victim" narrative that's going on. She WAS the victim of Bobby's disrespectful advances. Nothing changes that. A woman isn't a "fake" victim because she initially welcomed some flirtatious behavior but then acknowledge things were unable to more any further due to whatever details but still gets borderline harassing attention from a man.  Just because the circumstance are unfortunate for the man in the situation doesn't mean it's some outrageous crime that deserves such penalties as aggressiveness, nastiness and rude disrespect from the man being rejected. Grow the fuck up. A woman not going along with what a man may have seen as a promising connection doesn't mean it's open season on the woman and all hell should break loose. Really? So it's all or none and the results are anything goes anger wise, all because a man doesn't get his happy ending? (Figurative and literally). That's what I mean about some sad realities in this world. If I get rejected by a man then that's it. No need to theatrics, pouting and whining. Hell we had an example with Hannah. Sure, Ben didn't bite all season however he did engage in some flirty, friendly interactions with pretty much all the women. You see anyone being aggressively offensive and insulting to him? Not that fucking serious. Lick your wounds, shrug it off and keeping it moving. Bobby's angle is as if Julia strung him along and so he has every right to be disrespectful to her when that wasn't even the case. The level of anger and or disappointment that men are allowed to feel because they don't get to conquest a woman is rather scary and for some reason something a woman has no right to be offended by. But a man? Give off the slightest possibility that banging could be in the future (usually just a smile sets this narrative off in a man's head) and you're the teasing bitch that fucked with his mind and deserves his wrath afterwards.  Ugghhh, I just can't.

really?  and you give hannah a pass on that same scenario because why?  she's a woman?  that was borderline fatal attraction pschotic behavior by hannah.

did you selectively miss all the yellings on that boat that it was not just bobby who was yelling?  julia saying "i signed up for this and not my boyfriend", so why bring him up on that yelling fiasco? not gonna do anything to jeopardize her relationship?  like flirting?  touching bobby's ass (i think that was her, lol), long hugs.....no, she absolutely never did anything to imply that at all, lol.  and bobby never really acted psychotic about it.......until the alcohol (not an excuse but alcohol affects everyone differently and that's a fact)

the only one who handled themselves properly regarding this same scenario was tiff.  after that fiasco with bryan, it was done.  she knew the situation. she moved on....but with julia and hannah...they dragged that shit.  with hannah.....ok, we're just employees from now on....and then "i love you, ben"...wtf.  and julia, really, why was she getting in the middle of that shouting match at all?  if bobby breaks the rules so what?  not her place to be involved, was it?  bobby's idiot boss already vouched for him, and hannah thought she had a right to interfere, as chief stew, perhaps.  but not her department and bobby's idiot boss already had a final say......but they dragged it on and on and dismissed what the two dufus' wanted?  why?  why are they even involved......so yeah, these two do like to create their own drama.

[forum4idiots]

3 hours ago, mytmo said:

So disappointed that Julia's boyfriend did not meet her at the dock and punched Bobby's face in.  She could not get off this boat fast enough.  It seemed to me she was playing nice with Bobby.  Gawd I hate that man!

he has no idea what went on in the boat.  but he will as soon as he sees the season eps.  and i doubt julia even brought up bobby's flirtings and drama with her so called one and only .

[Yours Truly]

Hannah didn't come off abusive and aggressive towards Ben. I'm not saying she wasn't disappointed or had an attitude maybe had a bit of a catty tone but she wasn't all up in Ben's space pulling some stupid mind fuck on him over it. Hannah was throwing herself at Ben and he didn't give in. Bobby was pursing Julia to the point of making her uncomfortable. Add the name calling and aggressive behavior as well and all this guilt blaming bullshit like he was subjected to something sinister and.... Come On! The situations aren't comparable. My biggest problem is the aggression and intimidating presence Bobby brought to most of his conflicts (even with Danny). He seems to be the type of guy that makes it clear that him not getting what he wants isn't going to be pleasant for the person denying him. So throwing in all the bad behavior from this one that one, screaming matches, name calling XYZ doesn't really change the strong difference in the way Bobby handled his hurt feelings vs. the way everyone else handled their sticky situations.

I'm not saying there weren't some hijinx going on on the boat. That's what the season is about but with Bobby it was rather putrid to watch. I also wasn't happy about Bryan either cause he displayed some very disgusting frat boy, fuck first ask questions (or permission) later tendencies and I get really disgusted when these types of traits that men display are shrugged off as no big deal and  not that serious. Ummmm, no it's dangerous behavior that can get all parties involved into a lot of trouble. Knowingly or unknowingly. Irresponsible is what I think both Bobby and Bryan are with their drinking. They are one rape allegation away from destroying their lives. They better get it together cause the way they think and behave vs. modern times where anything other than a sober, solid yes from a woman can get you some time behind bars.. Yeah, they need to really wake up and smell the statute. Just sayin'.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Yours Truly

[forum4idiots]

2 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Hannah didn't come off abusive and aggressive towards Ben. I'm not saying she wasn't disappointed or had an attitude maybe had a bit of a catty tone but she wasn't all up in Ben's space pulling some stupid mind fuck on him over it. Hannah was throwing herself at Ben and he didn't give in. Bobby was pursing Julia to the point of making her uncomfortable. Add the name calling and aggressive behavior as well and all this guilt blaming bullshit like it was he was subjected to something sinister and.... Come On! The situations aren't comparable. My biggest problem is the aggression and intimidating presence Bobby brought to most of his conflicts (even with Danny). He seems to be the type of guy that makes it clear that him not getting what he wants isn't going to be pleasant for the person denying him. So throwing in all the bad behavior from this one that one, screaming matches, name calling XYZ doesn't really change the strong difference in the way Bobby handled his hurt feelings vs. the way everyone else handled their sticky situations.

I'm not saying there weren't some hijinx going on on the boat. That's what the season is about but with Bobby it was rather putrid to watch. I also wasn't happy about Bryan either cause he displayed some very disgusting frat boy, fuck first ask questions (or permission) later tendencies and I get really disgusted when these types of traits that men display are shrugged off as no big deal and  not that serious. Ummmm, no it's dangerous behavior that can get all parties involved into a lot of trouble. Knowingly or unknowingly. Irresponsible is what I think both Bobby and Bryan are with their drinking. They are one rape allegation away from destroying their lives. They better get it together cause the way they think and behave vs. modern times where anything other than a sober, solid yes from a woman can get you some time behind bars.. Yeah, they need to really wake up and smell the statute. Just sayin'.

she pulls him and says are we friends or just employees.....ben replies, whatever's easier on me.  on would think that was that....nope.  she does still throw herself at him.....and that i love you bit at the season finale.  i'd do anything spiehl or something to that effect, and i'll be waiting.

these types of traits?  like jenn getting on bobby's face to clock him?  so i suppose jenn gets a pass for that too...as to why she was even involved is ridiculous.  as to why julia became the focal point and victim of that whole scene eludes me as much as that crosissant fiasco.

to insinuate rape from that behavior?  really?  that's just digging.  julia wasn't even the focus of his horniness at that time, the other woman was.  julia was not uncomfortable with the advances until the drunk scenario...and i don't even understand how she got involved in it (which again, gives bobby argument oints for asking....she had no business in that exchange).  why were they even on their cases of bringing aboard a guest when bryan the douche cleared it and takes responsibility for it.  and for hannah to even say "i don't rat out co workers".....well, so why not let him bring the guest and not rat him out?  but no, let's make a big issue about it...BECAUSE nobody was thinking clearly, obviously.

[Yours Truly]

33 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

she pulls him and says are we friends or just employees.....ben replies, whatever's easier on me.  on would think that was that....nope.  she does still throw herself at him.....and that i love you bit at the season finale.  i'd do anything spiehl or something to that effect, and i'll be waiting.

these types of traits?  like jenn getting on bobby's face to clock him?  so i suppose jenn gets a pass for that too...as to why she was even involved is ridiculous.  as to why julia became the focal point and victim of that whole scene eludes me as much as that crosissant fiasco.

to insinuate rape from that behavior?  really?  that's just digging.  julia wasn't even the focus of his horniness at that time, the other woman was.  julia was not uncomfortable with the advances until the drunk scenario...and i don't even understand how she got involved in it (which again, gives bobby argument oints for asking....she had no business in that exchange).  why were they even on their cases of bringing aboard a guest when bryan the douche cleared it and takes responsibility for it.  and for hannah to even say "i don't rat out co workers".....well, so why not let him bring the guest and not rat him out?  but no, let's make a big issue about it...BECAUSE nobody was thinking clearly, obviously.

Not digging. I'm talking about Bryan's hot tub behavior as well as Bobby's drunken escapades with random drunk women from the bar. And as angry as Bobby got with the female crew for not allowing him to bring women on the boat so he could get laid, to the point of calling them c**** and screaming at them, just shows me how seriously he takes getting pussy or more like how angry he gets when something gets in the way of him getting pussy. And Bryan was rather nasty and aggressive with Tiff when she put the brakes on and that sort of distasteful reaction from men when they realize a woman won't be giving it up is enough to tell me that he wouldn't have thought twice about hitting it if Tiff was just some wasted chick that wouldn't have been able to put the brakes on. It's the part where they express intimidating behavior that leads me down that thought process. Why be angry at all? What part of not getting sex is equated with being abusive? or intimidating or downright angry? and going on a verbal assault?  I understand disappointed. I understand sexual frustration or being left in an uncomfortable position and I even understand being annoyed. It's the acting out that I just can't get behind.  I really don't understand how being angry, nasty and abrupt is deemed a natural and acceptable reaction. We really don't expect men to control themselves? Like, at all? Not only do we not expect them to control themselves but we find fault with women who find themselves in that situation? They aren't the victim to a mans lack of restraint? I mean it's not like any of these women are walking around with latex outfits, whips, chains, thongs, deep throating banana's and rubbing KY all over their bodies for crying out loud. They are trying to manuveur through a season of close quarters, friendly encounters and alcohol not to mention the stir crazy element. So sure, some things are gonna get sticky but geez louise. These guys need to grow the fuck up.

Bobby's mind fuck was about trying to make Julia feel guilty because HE was attracted to her and she continued to be friendly to him. I don't think a man should be able to stretch pleasant and friendly and yes even minor flirty overture into some fucking huge traumatization that he now has to recover from. You would think Julia was sneaking into his room at night wanting to cuddle but JUST cuddle, ya know as friends. wink, wink.  Hannah was just coming across as desperate and also letting Ben know that she's down. She wasn't having some fit about it.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Yours Truly

[RemoteControlFreak]

52 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

these types of traits?  like jenn getting on bobby's face to clock him?  so i suppose jenn gets a pass for that too...as to why she was even involved is ridiculous.  as to why julia became the focal point and victim of that whole scene eludes me as much as that crosissant fiasco.

In case you missed why Jenn "got in Bobby's face," it's because he stood over all the women in the tender. , pointed his finger at each one and said, "Fuck you and fuck you and fuck you."  Jenn was the only one who stood up for herself by saying "Are you fucking kidding me?"  She didn't "clock him." So, yeah, she gets a pass for that.

And here's why Julia became the focal point and the victim.  Bobby was obsessed with Julia to the point of somehow blaming her for making him fall in love with her.  It was his psychotic infatuation that caused his drunk ass to make out with the hooker (or whatever she was) and try to bring her back to the ship to get back at Julia for not being available.  His immaturity and temper is what caused everything to escalate. Why did Julia become the victim?  Because she was the main target of Bobby's hostility and deranged behavior.  

Edited July 27, 2016 by RemoteControlFreak

[forum4idiots]

5 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Not digging. I'm talking about Bryan's hot tub behavior as well as Bobby's drunken escapades with random drunk women from the bar. And as angry as Bobby got with the female crew for not allowing him to bring women on the boat so he could get laid, to the point of calling them c**** and screaming at them, just shows me how seriously he takes getting pussy or more like how angry he gets when something gets in the way of him getting pussy. And Bryan was rather nasty and aggressive with Tiff when she put the brakes on and that sort of distasteful reaction from men when they realize a woman won't be giving it up is enough to tell me that he wouldn't have thought twice about hitting it if Tiff was just some wasted chick that wouldn't have been able to put the brakes on. It's the part where they express intimidating behavior that leads me down that thought process. Why be angry at all? What part of not getting sex is equated with being abusive? or intimidating or downright angry? and going on a verbal assault?  I understand disappointed. I understand sexual frustration or being left in an uncomfortable position and I even understand being annoyed. It's the acting out that I just can't get behind.  I really don't understand how being angry, nasty and abrupt is deemed a natural and acceptable reaction. We really don't expect men to control themselves? Like, at all? Not only do we not expect them to control themselves but we find fault with women who find themselves in that situation? They aren't the victim to a mans lack of restraint? I mean it's not like any of these women are walking around with latex outfits, whips, chains, thongs, deep throating banana's and rubbing KY all over their bodies for crying out loud. They are trying to manuveur through a season of close quarters, friendly encounters and alcohol not to mention the stir crazy element. So sure, some things are gonna get sticky but geez louise. These guys need to grow the fuck up.

Bobby's mind fuck was about trying to make Julia feel guilty because HE was attracted to her and she continued to be friendly to him. I don't think a man should be able to stretch pleasant and friendly and yes even minor flirty overture into some fucking huge traumatization that he now has to recover from. You would think Julia was sneaking into his room at night wanting to cuddle but JUST cuddle, ya know as friends. wink, wink.  Hannah was just coming across as desperate and also letting Ben know that she's down. She wasn't having some fit about it.

and there in lies the problem.  i'm guessing you're not a guy.  and i revert back to hannah's behavior with ben.   two different animals with 2 different reactions....both disgraceful, but both will rub the opposite sex the wrong way.  if a woman has his man stolen, or gets her louis vuitton bag destroyed, guess what the reaction would be.  ad reading one comment here that wishing julia's bf was there to clock bobby...and i suppose that is acceptable behavior also as opposed to "anything not happening" from bobby's and bryan's behavior other than foul language.  yup, it all comes down to that, that was their behavior.  did fould language and name calling comeout of the women's mouths regarding the two douches? yes.  did the women also yell at the men like the men?  yes.  s tell me, is there a double standard here?  yes.  they are not "acceptable" reaction as you say, but they are understandable reactions from both the men and women.  my deal is not admitting that despite them wanting "to be treated as equals", they are in essence wanting special treatment, which contradicts.  truth is, men and women are not equals.  men are generally superior to in some aspects just as women are superior to men in others.  to shoe in both sexes to one perspective is silly and to bo them in to what we think they should react is just not right.

fact is, bryan reacted badly (drunk) to a turn down from tiff......it wasn't "borderline rape" as you dubbed it.  tiff dealt with it and she "got it".  it was a drunken scenario and moved on.....not dragged it out like hannah and julia would have...those girls need to grow the fuck up and understand the situation they are in also.

bobby's mid fuck?  or julia's mind fuck?  trying to make her feel guilty?  she should.  she proclaims i'm not going to jeopardize her bf relationship...so should that equate not returning the flirts or touching anyone's ass or getting in their faces about bringing someone on board?  and what of hannah's mind fuck?  again, does she get a pass?  not having fit about it?  she was teary eyed and doing the whole "woe is me" and "notice me i'm ignoring you, ben".  you are giving her a pass.  that whole season was borderline glenn close attraction.

like i said before, tiff is the only sane one who acclimated and knows what's up in that scenario fobeing in a boat full of men and women.  hannah got on her face, she dealt with it and moved on.  bryan got on her face, she dealt with it and moved on.  yeah, the guys do need to grow up like tiff....so so do the three women, jenn, hannah, and julia.  they are not the angels you proclaim them to be.

[RemoteControlFreak]

2 minutes ago, lovebug1975 said:

like i said before, tiff is the only sane one who acclimated and knows what's up in that scenario fobeing in a boat full of men and women.  hannah got on her face, she dealt with it and moved on.  bryan got on her face, she dealt with it and moved on.  yeah, the guys do need to grow up like tiff....so so do the three women, jenn, hannah, and julia.  they are not the angels you proclaim them to be.

And this is because Tiff was the only woman who was willing to have casual, no-strings-attached sex with one of the men? And the only woman not to object to the disrespect from Bobby and Bryan?  Ok, then.

[forum4idiots]

4 minutes ago, RemoteControlFreak said:

In case you missed why Jenn "got in Bobby's face," it's because he stood over all the women in the tender. , pointed his finger at each one and said, "Fuck you and fuck you and fuck you."  Jenn was the only one who stood up for herself by saying "Are you fucking kidding me?"  She didn't "clock him." So, yeah, she gets a pass for that.

And here's why Julia became the focal point and the victim.  Bobby was obsessed with Julia to the point of somehow blaming her for making him fall in love with her.  It was his psychotic infatuation that caused his drunk ass to make out with the hooker (or whatever she was) and try to bring her back to the ship to get back at Julia for not being available.  His immaturity and temper is what caused everything to escalate. Why did Julia become the victim?  Because she was the main target of Bobby's hostility and deranged behavior.  

yes, the same type of behavior you are condemning the guys for..being all tarzan.  so she gets a pass for the same behavior you are dondemning the guys for...makes sense.  and why it even got to that point?  because the three women got into bobby's business that they have no business being in......so yeah, his reaction is fuck you, fuck you, fuck you.  did you see tiff go apeshit or even get nasty enough?  if the issue was with bobby in the first place, how is it that bryan was the only one hijacked?  ooooops, lol.

and back to julia...why was she even involved again in tha tboat fight?  oh right, she shouldn;t be.  and anyone with half a brain knows that line of  "her fault for making him fall in love" was a half ass joke meant to be sweet comic relief for teh cameras.  the main issue of that blow up was the three women cock blocking bobby, which they had no business being in, especailly after bryan took the idiotic responsibility for.

[candall]

16 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

  If I get rejected by a man then that's it. No need for theatrics, pouting and whining. Hell we had an example with Hannah. Sure, Ben didn't bite all season however he did engage in some flirty, friendly interactions with pretty much all the women. You see anyone being aggressively offensive and insulting to him? Not that fucking serious.

That's a good analogy, comparing Ben/Hannah to Julia/Bobby.  Ben didn't have a girlfriend, but he told Hannah any number of times that a Chef + Chief Stew pairing was not a good idea during charter season.  (This made me smile, thinking about the movie where Ginnifer Goodwin learns:  "No man turns down sex because he has to 'get up early for work in the morning.' ")  I kind of thought, after the first rejection, Hannah might be too proud to pursue Ben any further, but apparently their interactions continued to be warm enough to keep her interest on "simmer."

 

So anyway, Julia (like Ben) gave out flirty signals, and then (like Ben) turned the stoplight red when there was no more progress to be made.  Bobby and Hannah nevertheless continued to keep their hopes high--evidence to the contrary . . . and then their reactions diverged.  Bobby went through blame and rage and cursing and, finally, professions of love, while Hannah tried and tried, never scored, but finally wound up giving Ben a warm goodbye (although she throw a bitter dart or two at Tiffany.)

Okay, so I guess you can't really draw gender-specific conclusions with only two couples, but Bobby's declaration that Julia was to "blame" for his behavior sent a familiar chill down a lot of female spines.

 

Maybe when you're a tight little group of twelve, trapped and living together 24/7, you're more reluctant to go DefCon on a suitor.  "HEY, I ALREADY SAID NO, SO KNOCK IT OFF!"  And maybe that's what it would have taken to penetrate Bobby's brain--but I bet if Julia had done that, the very next time she smiled, or failed to spit in his eye, he would have figured he was back in business.