S02.E08: Fugitive

[earlbny]

1 hour ago, basically said:

In season one there were things that didn't make sense or were glossed over but the season as a whole was so solid that I was able to overlook it and it didn't seriously bother me. There's just way too much unbelievable stuff to ignore this season.

They tried to take on so much they couldn't do anything right. And I'm not exaggerating - the execution this season was horrible. They pulled out every stop this year and really didn't need to. It's only season 2 people - slow down. Instead of giving us shock after shock and trying to outdo themselves every episode, they should have just tried writing a good story. One good story - not 25 messy ones that all end with loose ends anyway while we move into the next shocker. Let us care about these characters and relationships - SHOW us why they make sense don't just tell us. That way when shit goes down we actually give a damn what happens to them.

Maybe they did have good intentions but they ended up butchering it all to hell. They didnt do enough prep to take on such important issues and the show is closer to being a soap that deserves to be on lifetime - and not even a fun one either. They didn't know what the hell to do with Chet or Jeremy - who despite my distaste for last season seemed completely out of character this year. Quinn is reduced to one liners and a wasted flop romance with Ioan Gruffud. Coleman would have been 10x more interesting had he NOT been a love interest for Rachel. Rachel would have been more interesting had she been actually producing this season or been blatantly (to the audience) using Coleman to get ahead instead of falling into another delusion of love. Contestants we weren't even given a chance to care about. Darious was never properly fleshed out.

One other problem I had this season was the separation of Rachel and Quinn. We all knew it would have to come eventually, but it was something that Should have been built to later in the season (or another season) instead of right out of the gate. They should have let us explore more of their dynamic together before tearing them apart. A lot of critics are saying nothing felt earned this season and I agree with them. 

Lifetime is crazy if they don't do everything in their power to bring Marti Noxon to comeback next season and tell Shapiro to deal just deal with it - they gave her a chance to run the show and she's pretty much destroyed the accross the board critical acclaim season 1 earned fair and square.

Who knows if Noxon can even fix it or would even want to at this point - but the decline between season 1 and 2 is so jarring - all signs point to her being the missing ingredient here.

As Meat Loaf once sang "You took the words right out of my mouth" ITA with everything you said 110%. I read a review I think it was on Vox that said this season would have been better if it was told through the eyes of Darius.

Edited July 26, 2016 by earlbny

[CaliCheeseSucks]

4 hours ago, topanga said:

But the police have to file a report whenever they fire their guns. At the very least, they would have had to radio in to get medical assistance for Darius and Romeo. Someone with a police scanner could have picked up that communication. I can't imagine how the press would know nothing about a police shooting that involved this season's suitor. 

 

Everlasting is filmed in Los Angeles, right? No way, at the very least, TMZ would have failed to pick up on this. 

[guilfoyleatpp]

I don't believe that a woman who knew her mother was doing evil genius practice on her and who went to a seven sisters college (Vassar, right?) would think the big nasty secret was that one of her mom's patients raped her.

She's never disclosed that before? No one told her "yeah, that's some bullshit right there - not your fault." I know women who are fucked up over the shit that happened to them as children, but it's so unlikely for me to believe that someone with Rachel's resources is one of them. 

That was such an offensive disclosure. It reminded me of the scene in Magnolia where Julianne Moore's character discloses that she was molested. It was so trite and pat and expected. And that was 15 + years ago. At this point it's just lazy fucking writing.

[trouble]

Quote

I don't believe that a woman who knew her mother was doing evil genius practice on her and who went to a seven sisters college (Vassar, right?) would think the big nasty secret was that one of her mom's patients raped her.

She's never disclosed that before? No one told her "yeah, that's some bullshit right there - not your fault." I know women who are fucked up over the shit that happened to them as children, but it's so unlikely for me to believe that someone with Rachel's resources is one of them. 

That was such an offensive disclosure. It reminded me of the scene in Magnolia where Julianne Moore's character discloses that she was molested. It was so trite and pat and expected. And that was 15 + years ago. At this point it's just lazy fucking writing.

It is actually quite typical that people who are sexually abused/raped/molested, especially as children, do not tell anyone. Add that to her being manipulated by her mother into internalizing it as being her fault, and that she would be unlovable to anyone who knew, then it's not surprising that she has never told anyone. Intelligence, resources, or whatever else it is that your implying should somehow make Rachel a special sort of victim, or not a victim at all, I'm not really sure exactly, but somehow held to a different standard than other victims, I'm not quite getting. And as far as the reveal, I'm OK with it. Her behavior throughout the series--acting out sexually, her dysfunctional relationship with Quinn, confusing sex with power with love, etc. actually make this believable. I would have an issue with this being lazy writing if we hadn't watched almost two seasons of a person behaving in a way that makes this entirely plausible.

[Audmtodd]

Just a question to other UnREAL fans out there; do you think Quinn already knows about the rape? I'm having a hard time with that.... I suppose you could say she alluded to knowing when she confronted Rachel's mother; but if she REALLY knew about that kind of trauma would she have been so hellbent on having Rachel not report Jeremy's assault to the police (effectively re-traumatizing her again?). 

[Marsupial]

Quote

I'm in favor of Darius and Football Princess--eyes wide open--joining forces to Machiavelli their way through pro ball.  Take over all the franchises, I don't care

LOL  I had the same thought ! I was trying to come up with how Unreal could wrap up this wretched season with endings that would make me happy, and I came up with: Chet and Quinn finally do realize they belong together (yeah, I'm a sap but they are perfect together); Rachel and Coleman die in a fiery crash together, and nobody cares; and Chet produces a Tiffany-Darius reality show that makes the two of them, and Quinn and Chet, crazy rich and famous. In my fantasy, Season 3 is all about that reality show (they already have a real-life model in "Kendra on Top").

That said, I think I am done with Unreal as I have absolutely no interest in seeing how much further they can grind this thing into the dust. I won't even hold out hope for a better next season. Just drag this zombie behind the barn and kill it.

Quote

That was such an offensive disclosure. It reminded me of the scene in Magnolia where Julianne Moore's character discloses that she was molested. It was so trite and pat and expected. And that was 15 + years ago. At this point it's just lazy fucking writing

I completely agree. The "rape/incest" surprise "shocker" has become so commonplace you can see it a mile away. When mention of Rachel's deep dark secret came up, I turned to the friend I was watching with and said, "Ten to one she was molested." It's become the hack writer's duct tape, used to tack together failing plots and grab the sympathy vote from readers or viewers who are struggling to give a damn. It also lets them get away with not actually having to explain or develop a single idea or character.

Oh and once again, Quinn was spot-on in her assessment of that user Coleman.

How many episodes are left? I don't think I can drag myself through this mess anymore.

[Save Yourself]

On 7/26/2016 at 8:21 AM, HunterHunted said:

Although Yael says she's a journalist, there's no way the show would have let her on if she'd been employed as a journalist or working in a news organization in the last 5 to 10 years. For this to really work, Yael would have to be independently conducting her investigation and then pitching it to a news organization after she's done. Coleman and Yael are a perfect pair. They are both manipulative, duplicitous, and self-righteous.

It's not legal for Rachel's mom to be treating her, but her mom is manipulative enough that I suspect that she's calling in meds for a fake patient and that at some point she got Rachel to sign a mental health advance directive.

She could be a blogger using a pseudonym, anyone can call themselves a reporter.

It's not illegal to treat a family member but it's very unethical and 'cautioned' against. 

On 7/26/2016 at 11:57 AM, Gurkel said:

But ratings are good for the actual reality show, Everlasting. Yes, the ratings for UnReal suck--and deservedly so. 

Unreal can tell us anything they want to about the ratings for 'Everlasting', it doesn't mean anything, it's just what the producers have decided would work for the storylines.

 

17 hours ago, Audmtodd said:

Just a question to other UnREAL fans out there; do you think Quinn already knows about the rape? I'm having a hard time with that.... I suppose you could say she alluded to knowing when she confronted Rachel's mother; but if she REALLY knew about that kind of trauma would she have been so hellbent on having Rachel not report Jeremy's assault to the police (effectively re-traumatizing her again?). 

Rachel said she had never told anybody - I actually believe her on that one. 

[HunterHunted]

11 hours ago, xaxat said:

Even if the network and police colluded in a cover up of the shooting, it only works if Darius is on board and keeps his mouth shut. And him returning to film a TV show over making sure his cousin gets some kind of resolution makes no damn sense. And I'm assuming Romeo is dead or in a coma because there's no way he would be complicit in all of this. (Me: "Damn Darius. You had surgery that ended your career and you're on the lam from Everlasting? You really need to call your agent. Oh, wait. . . )

So the shooting was a McGuffin. And not a very well thought out one at that.

We also have the added Jeremy problem. He's been fired and is resentful. He can still get close to the mansion. He also has an entire camera crew that have no clue that that Jeremy was fired for assaulting Rachel. His former camera crew also know that Rachel and Coleman just a few days later managed to get the suitor injured, his agent shot, and get Rachel admitted to a mental hospital. There is no way that the crew wouldn't be feeding Jeremy info and possible footage for him to pass along to TMZ. I don't think SGS realizes how many holes this plot has. It's clear with his partnership with Yael that Jeremy is not opposed to blowing up Everlasting. Jeremy could quickly send info to TMZ and they could start throwing money around with the production crew, the police, and the hospital and get good info. Everlasting should be leaking like a sieve.

[nara]

11 hours ago, okerry said:

Her mother said something like, "No one would ever love you if they knew the truth - " Did she say, "if they knew what you did?" I'd have to see that scene again. But that doesn't seem to connect to what supposedly happened to Rachel.

That was the line that made me think it was some form of incest. 

18 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

Did I miss  something last week or when did Quinn start talking about having babies with the new guy? And why does she have to talk about having babies now? I hated that.

He mentioned last week that he wanted progeny. I remember commenting on whether Quinn could still have children.

4 hours ago, Audmtodd said:

Just a question to other UnREAL fans out there; do you think Quinn already knows about the rape? I'm having a hard time with that.... I suppose you could say she alluded to knowing when she confronted Rachel's mother; but if she REALLY knew about that kind of trauma would she have been so hellbent on having Rachel not report Jeremy's assault to the police (effectively re-traumatizing her again?). 

I think she does. People often think the trauma of telling the police and having to confront the attacker at a trial will be too much for the victim. Not sure I believe that,  but I am not an expert. 

[AllyB]

15 hours ago, LittleIggy said:

Exactly. What kind of vetting do they do of contestants if an employed reporter can infiltrate the show?

Actually on that point. After Mary's death and the cover up of the show's part in it last year, there is not a chance in hell they would have let Jameson, an actual cop, on to the show. What was the point in making her character be a cop other than to give Darius a reason to get rid of her in this episode?

[Isazouzi]

7 hours ago, Marsupial said:

I completely agree. The "rape/incest" surprise "shocker" has become so commonplace you can see it a mile away. When mention of Rachel's deep dark secret came up, I turned to the friend I was watching with and said, "Ten to one she was molested." It's become the hack writer's duct tape, used to tack together failing plots and grab the sympathy vote from readers or viewers who are struggling to give a damn. It also lets them get away with not actually having to explain or develop a single idea or character.

 

I think people are unfair on this. It's not "just" that she's been raped, it's also that her mom told her it was her fault and forced her to shut up to save her own practice. Rachel is not "just" a rape victim and kudos to those who saw that coming, she's been destroyed by a manipulative and horrible mother. And as someone else up thread said, it's all coherent with what we've seen of Rachel's behavior since the very beginning of the show. I for one think that her character has been developed well enough. And maybe that's why some people had guessed that she was rape. It doesn't necessarily means bad writing. On the contrary, as far as this plot point is concerned, IMO. (I don't mean to say that the whole show is well written, I just think that people are unfairly nitpicky.)

[tennisgurl]

So, they did establish that Romeo was alright? Because I spent the whole episode wanting to see how he was or what he was thinking, or if he was even alive, but I never heard anything. So someone else did? Why cant we hear from him? Was the poor guy really just a prop to continue with their "poor Rachel" storyline? Come on, show!

Yael being a reporter is kind of interesting, but not interesting enough to keep me invested in this season.And Coleman reveals himself to be a selfish asshole, which is exactly how I figured he was in episode one. he continues to exist to make us still feel bad for Rachel, who is the hero, despite all the messed up things she has done, because everyone around her is either worse, or have no personality. So, does the big secret imply that Rachel is not even mentally ill, and its just because her mom messed her up? And if she is mentally ill, is that why she does stuff like calling the cops on Romeo and Darius? Because if that is what they are implying, that is kind of messed up. 

So, my big problem with this season is that they just keep throwing out all these ideas and issues, but they never really follow through with them. They toss out race, police brutality, gender, mental health issues, rape, all kinds of things, but they never really follow through. Its just frustrating and annoying and a waste of a brilliant season one. 

I am torn on the big secret with Rachel. On the one hand, it certainly does explain some of Rachel's issues, and makes her mom the real villain of this show, and maybe there are some issues that can be explored there. On the other hand, maybe I have become cynical after years of TV, but I just knew that rape would be a part of Rachel's story. If a female character has damage, its probably going to be a rape story. Granted, the mom cover up makes it a more unique and diabolical Rape as Backstory trope, but its still right there. I thought, the things she was saying, that Rachel had killed someone as a kid, or something like that. Well, show, now that you have thrown out this backstory, what do you plan on doing with it? Because, after the shooting from last week, nothing has really been done or said about it. They just tossed it out to be "edgy", and I hope this is not why they gave Rachel this backstory. 

Seriously, this season is such a tragic waste.  

[dubbel zout]

5 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

It doesn't necessarily means bad writing.

No, but I think it's lazy writing. And I don't think it makes Rachel more sympathetic. Plenty of rape victims get the necessary counseling and go on to lead productive, healthy lives. Giving her an abusive background, both physical and emotional, is just a pile-on. Will we learn next that her mom got rid of her dog, the only friend she had as a child?

Why does she need that baggage? Why can't her skill at manipulating people stand on its own and have that be her struggle? In other words, she hates that she's so good at getting people to do what she wants, but she knows she's really good at it and it's paid off professionally. And maybe she enjoys it more than she should.

[dixiecricket]

I watched the replay on Lifetime so I may have missed a TV notice but did the show ever reveal in the beginning that it was a 2-week jump from last week's show to this one? Or we were supposed to just magically infer that from Quinn's monologue about [in 'Everlasting' world, last week being a clip show] in the first 15 minutes of the show?

Given this 2-week time jump, are we expected to believe that 4 competing girls just laid around a fairly empty (except for the alcohol) mansion for 2 weeks with no word from, no sight of, and no mention of Darius---the center of the show that they are on?

 

Is the whole 'UnReal' concept just a social experiment to see who will hang on until the end?

[earlbny]

9 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

I watched the replay on Lifetime so I may have missed a TV notice but did the show ever reveal in the beginning that it was a 2-week jump from last week's show to this one? Or we were supposed to just magically infer that from Quinn's monologue about [in 'Everlasting' world, last week being a clip show] in the first 15 minutes of the show?

Given this 2-week time jump, are we expected to believe that 4 competing girls just laid around a fairly empty (except for the alcohol) mansion for 2 weeks with no word from, no sight of, and no mention of Darius---the center of the show that they are on?

 

Is the whole 'UnReal' concept just a social experiment to see who will hang on until the end?

After every episode of UnREAL I keep waiting for Ashton Kutcher to come out and tell me I just got punked. 

SGS talked the  time jump in an interview. I posted the Q&A below. I don't think it was ever addressed on the show other then Quinn's monologue. After Mary's suicide they spent a whole episode dealing with the aftermath. This season they pretended like it never happened. They showed a clip show and it was business as usual.

As for the story, where do things pick up in the next episode? 
SHAPIRO: This is the first time we’ve done a time jump on UnREAL. A couple of weeks pass, and we meet up with a very differentEverlasting because of this incident. Romeo is alive and he has recovered from his wound and Darius’ back has been injured so he has to recover from that as well, so we have the time jump. Things have changed

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/19/unreal-season-2-shooting-episode

[BingeyKohan]

9 minutes ago, earlbny said:

As for the story, where do things pick up in the next episode? 
SHAPIRO: This is the first time we’ve done a time jump on UnREAL. A couple of weeks pass, and we meet up with a very differentEverlasting because of this incident. Romeo is alive and he has recovered from his wound and Darius’ back has been injured so he has to recover from that as well, so we have the time jump. Things have changed

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/07/19/unreal-season-2-shooting-episode

I call major BS on her assertion we meet a 'very different Everlasting' after the 'time jump.' Seemed like the same damn Everlasting to me. It's actually insulting how much BS that is.

[topanga]

4 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I call major BS on her assertion we meet a 'very different Everlasting' after the 'time jump.' Seemed like the same damn Everlasting to me. It's actually insulting how much BS that is.

I'm disappointed that the contestants, especially Jameson, never discussed among themselves what this shooting meant for Romeo, the state of race relations in America, etc. Especially since the suitor is black but was involved in this police incident. 

I'm sorry Ruby never had a chance to discuss the incident with someone. But her scene in the cafe was about her calling Darius on his shit and the terrible way he treated her. 

[BingeyKohan]

1 minute ago, topanga said:

I'm disappointed that the contestants, especially Jameson, never discussed among themselves what this shooting meant for Romeo, the state of race relations in America, etc. Especially since the suitor is black but was involved in this police incident. 

I'm sorry Ruby never had a chance to discuss the incident with someone. But her scene in the cafe was about her calling Darius on his shit and the terrible way he treated her. 

Totally! Last season, there were at least two scenes with the contestants reacting to Mary's suicide, one when they were sequestered in the room and they had the unsettling realization cameras weren't filming the aftermath, and again in the counseling session where Faith requested that they pray. This season they could barely manage one coherent scene with the contestants processing their feelings, and ruined it with Jameson's lame reference to police getting a bad rap. They might as well have just had her say, "As you know I'm a cop so I feel a certain way about this," end of scene.

[Save Yourself]

18 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I don't believe that a woman who knew her mother was doing evil genius practice on her and who went to a seven sisters college (Vassar, right?) would think the big nasty secret was that one of her mom's patients raped her.

She's never disclosed that before? No one told her "yeah, that's some bullshit right there - not your fault." I know women who are fucked up over the shit that happened to them as children, but it's so unlikely for me to believe that someone with Rachel's resources is one of them. 

That was such an offensive disclosure. It reminded me of the scene in Magnolia where Julianne Moore's character discloses that she was molested. It was so trite and pat and expected. And that was 15 + years ago. At this point it's just lazy fucking writing.

Sexual abuse is non-discriminatory and prevalent, it's not surprising at all that an educated person from a privileged background would hide abuse, unfortunately it happens all the time; rich or poor, college or high-school drop-out. It can also take a long time - if at all - to confront or totally accept that a parent is abusive let alone disclose it to outsiders. One of the reasons people fail to disclose is the fear that no-one will believe them, particularly when someone comes from a seemingly (to outsiders) 'upstanding' family like Rachel's.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Save Yourself

[Pepper Mostly]

On 7/26/2016 at 11:46 AM, earlbny said:

Here's something I don't understand. How is Darius walking around after having Back Surgery. I know he has a cane but still. One of my friends has had back surgery. After the surgery she was in bed for quite a while. Granted she had some complications and had to have the surgery X2.

I remarked on that myself as I watched--"WTF? he had back surgery less than two weeks ago and he's up and around? No recovery time, no rehab?"

On 7/26/2016 at 11:53 AM, Chris Burgess said:

There was a scene in the mental hospital where Coleman was talking to Rachel saying that both Darius and Romeo were fine, so Romeo isn't in a coma and he's doing well. SGS had said in an interview that there was a two week time jump in between episodes 7 and 8, and that Romeo has recovered from his gunshot wound.

So Romeo was just a prop. Nice. And by "nice" I mean "cram it SGS".

On 7/26/2016 at 0:19 PM, LittleIggy said:

Exactly. What kind of vetting do they do of contestants if an employed reporter can infiltrate the show?

They're all asleep at the wheel this season. Yael apparently had a phone, and was able to call Jeremy and wander off set whenever she pleased. She was able to sneak off and have sex with him too. Is no one watching these people?

 

21 hours ago, Knuckles said:

That's it in a nutshell. And it is the writing, not the actors that is the source of the trouble. The big Rachel reveal was unnecessary...it was enough that we knew that Rachel was emotionally unstable, and that that very instability gave her a laser-like insight into the weaknesses and vulnerabilities of the various bachelorettes. And in partnership with Quinn, a ruthless willingness to exploit those weaknesses. Around that premise was a hard edged willingness to accept   the costs involved. Quinn's personal life was a mess, so was Rachel's attempts at relationships...business and romantic. Everyone else involved was also equipped with enough ambition and moral relativism to keep pushing the envelope. There was no sentimentality just a cold-eyed realism...with plenty of black humor to boot. 

Since it is a work-related show, we don't need to have insight into their family or childhood dynamics...we don't have those at work either with our colleagues. Instead, we work with what we see, and what we see our work colleagues do...and from that, guess our own best strategies. That's what made the first season work...everyone was in the game, event the most unlikely players.

Yes, I agree with this. This is a show about women, ambition and power.

15 hours ago, Marsupial said:

LOL  I had the same thought ! I was trying to come up with how Unreal could wrap up this wretched season with endings that would make me happy, and I came up with: Chet and Quinn finally do realize they belong together (yeah, I'm a sap but they are perfect together); Rachel and Coleman die in a fiery crash together, and nobody cares; and Chet produces a Tiffany-Darius reality show that makes the two of them, and Quinn and Chet, crazy rich and famous. In my fantasy, Season 3 is all about that reality show (they already have a real-life model in "Kendra on Top").

That said, I think I am done with Unreal as I have absolutely no interest in seeing how much further they can grind this thing into the dust. I won't even hold out hope for a better next season. Just drag this zombie behind the barn and kill it.

I completely agree. The "rape/incest" surprise "shocker" has become so commonplace you can see it a mile away. When mention of Rachel's deep dark secret came up, I turned to the friend I was watching with and said, "Ten to one she was molested." It's become the hack writer's duct tape, used to tack together failing plots and grab the sympathy vote from readers or viewers who are struggling to give a damn. It also lets them get away with not actually having to explain or develop a single idea or character.

Oh and once again, Quinn was spot-on in her assessment of that user Coleman.

How many episodes are left? I don't think I can drag myself through this mess anymore.

Once I heard that Rachel had been raped I thought "oh my god, the dog is next". it was such a naked grab for some emotional engagement. the next thing will be poor old Boo, dispatched in some terrible way that has nothing to do with the story ("story" I should say, because this hot mess is about as far from a coherent story as it gets). I hasten to add that I hope this does not happen, as Chet's love for his doggy is about the only thing that feels organic to me this season.

I love the Tiffany-Darius show idea and I agree, Chet and Quinn belong together.

So Adam was just dragged in for no reason? Here today, gone tomorrow? Darius and Romeo savaged, injured, and traumatized, and oh well, just another day another dollar? Jeremy is trotted on to pick up Yael and vanishes again? The writing sucks this season.

[laurakaye]

I agree with others, there are so many explosive plot lines that just kind of fizzle away.  There is way too much going on, and it's hard to follow, because it's all too much and too unbelievable.

I have occasionally watched/eye-rolled my way through The Bachelor/Bachelorette, and was pumped to see that a show was going to skewer the living crap out of those shows.  I love the casting - I cannot look away whenever Shiri is onscreen, and Quinn's one-liners aren't yet getting old for me.  Love Quinn and Chet, they are each other's deeply disturbed soulmates. 

This season, things happen, and happen, and then more happens, and I find myself thinking - what about the women?  What are they doing?  How can they switch up filming so quickly, or change the show's events on a dime, or lose track of their suitor?  The cast of "Everlasting" is like a corral of cows that got loose.  Who is supposed to be watching over them?  Maybe this is a minor detail and I'm overlooking the bigger picture, but I want the show to be about the women and the suitor, and the messed-up machinations that go on behind the scenes.  Right now it seems to want to throw everything at us and see what sticks.  It's a confusing mess, but I hope the show gets another season and gets back to something closer to what season one brought.

That said, Shiri is brilliant and I feel exhausted when she's onscreen...I can sense her emotions through the screen and as long as she's on the show, I'll keep watching.

[pbutler111]

Olive tells Rachel, "No one will ever love you if they find out", and it seems monstrous once we hear what Rachel's secret is. But is what Rachel told Coleman really true? Rachel has proven herself to be such an adept liar and emotional manipulator, I can easily believe that what she told Coleman is bullshit, and that her real secret may well be something that would make her quite unlovable to others -- perhaps being responsible in some way for someone's death? She just coughed up this supposedly long-held secret a little too easily.

[dixiecricket]

31 minutes ago, pbutler111 said:

Olive tells Rachel, "No one will ever love you if they find out", and it seems monstrous once we hear what Rachel's secret is. But is what Rachel told Coleman really true? Rachel has proven herself to be such an adept liar and emotional manipulator, I can easily believe that what she told Coleman is bullshit, and that her real secret may well be something that would make her quite unlovable to others -- perhaps being responsible in some way for someone's death? She just coughed up this supposedly long-held secret a little too easily.

I agree there must be something more to the secret. If this IS Rachel's truth, then the writers of 'UnReal' have just told every victim of rape that they are damaged goods, unable to be loved, and unworthy of love----or at least through the eyes of the only "mother" on the show - the same person who also represents a psychiatric opinion on this show. So two areas where you would expect to be warmly supported if such an event were to happen to their child/patient and 'UnReal' has her reaction to be the exact opposite. Strange...

4 hours ago, earlbny said:

SGS talked the  time jump in an interview. I posted the Q&A below. I don't think it was ever addressed on the show other then Quinn's monologue. After Mary's suicide they spent a whole episode dealing with the aftermath. This season they pretended like it never happened. They showed a clip show and it was business as usual.

I meant to acknowledge your previous post as well but forgot to do so - sorry! However, I had completely forgotten about the time jump until it was brought up in this episode's forum, which is why I thought I may have missed something. Who does such a close time jump without explanation?

[FormerMod-a1]

1 hour ago, pbutler111 said:

Olive tells Rachel, "No one will ever love you if they find out", and it seems monstrous once we hear what Rachel's secret is. But is what Rachel told Coleman really true? Rachel has proven herself to be such an adept liar and emotional manipulator, I can easily believe that what she told Coleman is bullshit, and that her real secret may well be something that would make her quite unlovable to others -- perhaps being responsible in some way for someone's death? She just coughed up this supposedly long-held secret a little too easily.

 

24 minutes ago, dixiecricket said:

I agree there must be something more to the secret. If this IS Rachel's truth, then the writers of 'UnReal' have just told every victim of rape that they are damaged goods, unable to be loved, and unworthy of love----or at least through the eyes of the only "mother" on the show - the same person who also represents a psychiatric opinion on this show. So two areas where you would expect to be warmly supported if such an event were to happen to their child/patient and 'UnReal' has her reaction to be the exact opposite. Strange...

I think that's it though, that her mother is a monster.  I thought I heard somewhere in one of the scenes (either with her mother, or with Coleman) that Rachel's mother blamed her for the rape, too.   Just, ugh.  Rachel gets raped, but one of mom's patients, mom blames her, tells her no one will love her because it's her fault, makes sure no one else can help Rachel, gaslights her, etc.  Monster.  Also, Rachel was 12, not that it'd be better at any age.

[trouble]

Quote

I agree there must be something more to the secret. If this IS Rachel's truth, then the writers of 'UnReal' have just told every victim of rape that they are damaged goods, unable to be loved, and unworthy of love----or at least through the eyes of the only "mother" on the show - the same person who also represents a psychiatric opinion on this show.

I'm struggling with how this would be the takeaway for viewers. For me, Rachel's mother has not been portrayed as a good mother or a good psychiatrist and I can't see how the writers wanted viewers to look at her as a representative of either. And personally as a survivor, this is not what I saw, at all. What I saw was disturbing, but not because it communicated that Rachel (or other rape survivors) are unlovable, but because Rachel was raised by a despicable monster who would, as someone else said, "gaslight" her daughter by telling her that she would be seen as unlovable (and also tell her that she's various forms of crazy and then medicate her to treat the various diagnoses) in order to manipulate her into never telling anyone that she was raped by one of her mother's patients.

[Omega Mu]

My theory is that Yael isn't really a journalist, that's just her cover story, she's actually an investigator for a law firm working for the family of Suicide Mary.  I have no evidence of this, it just makes sense to me.  She's a Kalinda.

I also think a journalist with any integrity at all wouldn't put themselves in the position (hee hee) of boning a source (Jeremy) for information.  Imagine the disclosure statement!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

After 'Fugitive,' Who Is UnREAL's Biggest Scumbag?

Rachel reluctantly tells Coleman her life's biggest secret, but does his next move put him at the bottom of the episode's moral rankings?

[Audmtodd]

Lol at "oh, word? BYE!"
That other psychiatrist could see that something clearly fucked up was going on between Atilla The Mom and Rachel yet homie just dipped out. I only did one rotation in mental health during clinical hours but I'm pretty sure patient abandonment is defined as leaving your patient in the care of someone less qualified; and he could clearly see that Rachel's sketchy ass mother was not at all qualified to practice.

[xaxat]

On 7/27/2016 at 9:24 AM, tennisgurl said:

So, they did establish that Romeo was alright? Because I spent the whole episode wanting to see how he was or what he was thinking, or if he was even alive, but I never heard anything. So someone else did? Why cant we hear from him?

You can't hear from him because his presence would blow up the conspiracy plot. No way he would be complicit. 

They also had to give Darius a bit of amnesia so he, as someone with tremendous resources and easy access to media who just saw his agent/cousin/friend shot as a result of what he believes to be police harassment who told Ruby he was done, would just want to return to the show.

[formerlyfreedom]

There is no right or wrong opinion here - remember the site rule - Be civil, please.

[Marsupial]

Quote

Rachel has proven herself to be such an adept liar and emotional manipulator, I can easily believe that what she told Coleman is bullshit, and that her real secret may well be something that would make her quite unlovable to others -- perhaps being responsible in some way for someone's death? She just coughed up this supposedly long-held secret a little too easily.

That would certainly be a fascinating twist. Maybe Rachel's mom is so controlling/overprotective of her because she knows that this is all a concoction of Rachel's imagination and the real truth is something truly horrible. It would certainly make for an interesting scenario, so it's unlikely to be part of this awful show.

Quote

I also think a journalist with any integrity at all wouldn't put themselves in the position (hee hee) of boning a source (Jeremy) for information.  Imagine the disclosure statement!

Yeah, I can't figure out what Yael's true gig is here at all. I don't buy that she's a journalist. I think she came up with that to cover for something else, and Coleman is such an egomaniac that he fell for her line. So far she's roped Jeremy and Coleman in and I wonder what her final game is.

I thought my mother did some messed-up thing raising me, but Rachel's mom makes her look like a saint. I'm sorry I ever complained, Mom!

Edited July 29, 2016 by Marsupial
spelling

[jhlipton]

So...

Ruby told Darius that he did a shameful thing by saying that she was not worthy of love....

And his response to that is to tell Jameson the same thing???!!!!

Bye, Felicia!

[kia112]

On 7/26/2016 at 8:21 AM, HunterHunted said:

Although Yael says she's a journalist, there's no way the show would have let her on if she'd been employed as a journalist or working in a news organization in the last 5 to 10 years.

This past season on The Bachelor, one of the contestants was a general assignment reporter who quit her job to come on the show. The show knew all about it, clearly. They even had her play it up sometimes.

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, kia112 said:

This past season on The Bachelor, one of the contestants was a general assignment reporter who quit her job to come on the show. The show knew all about it, clearly. They even had her play it up sometimes.

That is not the case of an undercover journalist making about a false background to be chosen among the perspectives which Unreal wants us to think Yael is

[ByTor]

On 7/26/2016 at 11:58 AM, topanga said:

And I love the constant digs at the clueless host. Something that continues to be funny week after week. 

I absolutely love that host!  It is ridiculous (in the best sense of the word) what a perfect mock he is of Chris Harrison!

[kia112]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

That is not the case of an undercover journalist making about a false background to be chosen among the perspectives which Unreal wants us to think Yael is

Ahh. Well, she could have saved herself a lot of time an effort and just applied as herself. I have yet to watch this week's episode; I haven't even finished the one from the week before.

[jhlipton]

7 hours ago, ByTor said:

I absolutely love that host!  It is ridiculous (in the best sense of the word) what a perfect mock he is of Chris Harrison!

Who dresses him and feeds him his lines?  You would think that falls under the show-runner's purview but Quinn always sems surprised by what he wears and says.  Wouldn't he be "produced" as much as anyone else?

[wendyg]

 I had a lot of reservations about the first season, but the thing I *did* like was the problem-solving: every week some contestant or staffer created an apparently unsolvable situation and Rachel and Quinn had to find a way to turn it into "good television".  Yes, the eventual solution was often despicable, but it was interesting to see two smart women think and manipulate their way out of these corners.  Replacing that with a competition to see which team of staffers can take over the show isn't remotely as interesting to me.

[udodoodle2]

The way Shiri delivered the line about Rachel's secret, my first thought was, "Is that even true? Or is it was Rachel believes, or was told, or is the official party line, and this is really about something else?"

Her mother said something like, "No one would ever love you if they knew the truth - " Did she say, "if they knew what you did?" I'd have to see that scene again. But that doesn't seem to connect to what supposedly happened to Rachel.

Oh, well. I'm probably just reaching because I'm pretty disappointed in the show this season after last season's stellar performance.

This was my reaction as well. I don't think she would be completely honest with Coleman about what happened. I don't like to imagine what could be worse.

[topanga]

On 7/26/2016 at 0:52 PM, okerry said:

The way Shiri delivered the line about Rachel's secret, my first thought was, "Is that even true? Or is it was Rachel believes, or was told, or is the official party line, and this is really about something else?"

Her mother said something like, "No one would ever love you if they knew the truth - " Did she say, "if they knew what you did?" I'd have to see that scene again. But that doesn't seem to connect to what supposedly happened to Rachel.

Oh, well. I'm probably just reaching because I'm pretty disappointed in the show this season after last season's stellar performance.

Her mother's entire diatribe confused me. 

Mommy Dearest: There's a reason why I kept what happened private.

Rachel: So you could protect your practice?

MD: No. So I could protect you. Send you to a good school. Give you a life. Let you grow up to be the shiny penny that I know you really are.

...

Rachel: You want me to just pretend that it never happened? Is that what you want? 

MD: Yes. Because no one would love you if they find out. They'll run away, you know that. No one wants to deal with that kind of damage, Rachel. No one. 

 

The mom's response is so weird. It's as if she's covering up for something Rachel did. Which is why the reveal of the rape was also confusing. Blame the victim much? The story has got to be more complicated that what we've been told--maybe Rachel killed the guy. Otherwise, the mother is simply a sadistic co-conspirator and deserves to lose her medical license, not just her practice. 

[earlbny]

I am not sure where I read the following info. It may have been posted here or somewhere else. Someone mentioned that they thought Rachel might have lied to Coleman about being raped. Manipulated him. Or maybe she killed the guy and now she's covering it up. Someone else said That they thought Rachel had a bad case of Munchausen Syndrome by proxy. Some A list celebrity said whenever they write in a rape plot they consiter it lazy writing. A quick google search brought up articles talking about why a rape plot is bad.

Edited August 1, 2016 by earlbny

[Mabinogia]

22 hours ago, topanga said:

MD: No. So I could protect you. Send you to a good school. Give you a life. Let you grow up to be the shiny penny that I know you really are.

At first glance I was going to say that MD is implying Rachel did something, maybe attacked or killed the guy because why wouldn't Rachel be able to go a good school because she'd been raped. But then I started to wonder, did Mommy mean that that is why she felt she "had" to protect her practice, so she could keep working to have the money for a good school etc for Rachel.

I do wonder, however, if they are going to go with the twist, Mommy really is protecting Rachel and all the mind games and drugs are to keep Rachel from remembering exactly what she did.

I still wish the show didn't bother going there. I didn't want this to be a soap opera about people who happen to work on a reality show. I wanted it to be about the making of a reality show and all the machinations that go on behind the scenes. And mostly I did not sign on for a show about Rachel and Quinn going after each other. I much prefer them on the same side taking down fame whores and chauvinistic execs at the same time.

[formerlyfreedom]

Let's stick to what happened in the episode, and take speculation about whether Rachel told the truth or not to the Spoiler and Speculation conversation please.

[Eolivet]

This show has officially crossed the line (I know...this week, instead of last -- go figure) from deconstructing a reality show to becoming a hit piece on one. There is no other reason for dredging up the Mary tragedy, other than the writer has some demons of her own to work out from her own prior employment. I enjoyed the show's darkly cynical view on dating reality, but there's a difference between darkly cynical and downright dystopian.

I join my fellow posters in disappointment that the show indeed raped Rachel for the plot -- a mere three or four episodes after I applauded them for avoiding the trope. I should actually really condemn them now, because "secret past rape to dredge up sympathy for the heroine" is almost more insulting than "powerful heroine is raped to symbolize her powerlessness."

The one thing I'm enjoying -- the one thing that, to me, is keeping with the spirit of last year's show, is Darius and Jay's newfound alliance. I am here for Darius using the show for his own gain -- to further his career, on his terms. I'm here for him leading still-unreadable Tiffany down the garden path. I am here for him rebuilding his image out of the palapa they built for his overnight date. Quinn has needed an adversary worthy of her considerable talents, and a newly empowered Darius (produced by Jay) may be just the thing.

But please, enough of Rachel and her sad, sad drama, enough of hot Rachel and her stupid "reality shows are the devil" expose, enough about the future of Quinn's uterus. Can the show get back to the actual show? Please?

[Charm]

On July 27, 2016 at 10:21 AM, Save Yourself said:

Sexual abuse is non-discriminatory and prevalent, it's not surprising at all that an educated person from a privileged background would hide abuse, unfortunately it happens all the time; rich or poor, college or high-school drop-out. It can also take a long time - if at all - to confront or totally accept that a parent is abusive let alone disclose it to outsiders. One of the reasons people fail to disclose is the fear that no-one will believe them, particularly when someone comes from a seemingly (to outsiders) 'upstanding' family like Rachel's.

Unfortunately, you are very correct. The more you've got to lose, the less you will disclose this tragedy as you are forever labeled as a rape victim. You will become an outcast. I do not want to offend any victims but from my experience (small town, affluent, VERY religious, educated), many will never let you forget this experience. I've seen it firsthand. You are an embarrassment to your family and they'd prefer you to shut the hell up. That's why so many are unreported. Again, I speak from MY experience. People do look at you differently if you speak out. Many won't believe you. Many think you 'deserve' it, many look down their nose at you, men will think you're 'tainted'. It's a very traumatic, life changing experience for all victims and many do rise above it but many do not. Let me give you an example: in a small town, there's the 'drunk', there's the 'crazy lady', there's the 'druggie', there's the 'poor' family, there's the 'rich' family, there's the 'slut'. Now add rape to a woman and she's forever labeled with it. She 'surely' ran after it cuz LOOK AT HER! The gossip is disgusting and unrelenting.  I'm not surprised Rachel and her mother have kept it quiet, practice or not.

[Save Yourself]

1 hour ago, Charm said:

Unfortunately, you are very correct. The more you've got to lose, the less you will disclose this tragedy as you are forever labeled as a rape victim. You will become an outcast. I do not want to offend any victims but from my experience (small town, affluent, VERY religious, educated), many will never let you forget this experience. I've seen it firsthand. You are an embarrassment to your family and they'd prefer you to shut the hell up. That's why so many are unreported. Again, I speak from MY experience. People do look at you differently if you speak out. Many won't believe you. Many think you 'deserve' it, many look down their nose at you, men will think you're 'tainted'. It's a very traumatic, life changing experience for all victims and many do rise above it but many do not. Let me give you an example: in a small town, there's the 'drunk', there's the 'crazy lady', there's the 'druggie', there's the 'poor' family, there's the 'rich' family, there's the 'slut'. Now add rape to a woman and she's forever labeled with it. She 'surely' ran after it cuz LOOK AT HER! The gossip is disgusting and unrelenting.  I'm not surprised Rachel and her mother have kept it quiet, practice or not.

Yes it's awful the way sexual abuse victims can be treated. I've known way too many people - men and women - who have been sexually abused and the stories are so incredibly sad. When my mum disclosed about abuse by a family member the rest of her family didn't want to know about it and accused her of lying. It took her over 20 years to tell anyone about it and that was the response she had. They basically cast her out of the family, it was horrible, she was treated like she had done something wrong and the abuser was still included in all the family gatherings while mum was left out, I'm still so angry about it. That's not an isolated reaction that I have seen first hand, no wonder people don't want to disclose when they see how others have been treated. 

Edited August 2, 2016 by Save Yourself

[okerry]

On 7/27/2016 at 1:23 PM, pbutler111 said:

Olive tells Rachel, "No one will ever love you if they find out", and it seems monstrous once we hear what Rachel's secret is. But is what Rachel told Coleman really true? Rachel has proven herself to be such an adept liar and emotional manipulator, I can easily believe that what she told Coleman is bullshit, and that her real secret may well be something that would make her quite unlovable to others -- perhaps being responsible in some way for someone's death? She just coughed up this supposedly long-held secret a little too easily.

I had the same thought upthread - I wonder if what Rachel said is actually what happened to her.

[red12]

On 7/26/2016 at 2:47 PM, earlbny said:

As Meat Loaf once sang "You took the words right out of my mouth" ITA with everything you said 110%. I read a review I think it was on Vox that said this season would have been better if it was told through the eyes of Darius.

Then again, I don't want these writers trying to adopt Darius' viewpoint. I don't trust it.

[aradia22]

I'm enjoying how no one except dummy Jeremy is falling for Yael at all. I think she's supposed to be some kind of Gloria Steinem infiltrating the Playboy Club but she is the worst at it. I hope Coleman isn't really helping her because she is way too incompetent to get to succeed at the end of this.

Chet made me laugh twice. Otherwise it was kind of boring again. Separate from the show, I'm like 'yay, Ruby, of course you shouldn't take him back' but it does make things less interesting because she's one of the more compelling actors/characters. And then with Rachel, it's interesting to have her be passive but Coleman, Quinn, and her mom aren't really stepping up as power players so watching them struggle for dominance isn't that engaging.

OK, I laughed one more time when Quinn shouted "you're not a woman, Graham."

Ooh, yay. Classic soap opera move... previously un-hinted at backstory. I will give them credit that it makes sense with what we know about Rachel but they rushed the hell out of that. I still have no read on Coleman but I'm hoping he has somewhat good intentions because if he's just been playing Rachel this whole time it's going to be super rough after that confession.

Darius' return was a nice TV moment but I'm not sure it would endear him to the Everlasting audience.

[aradia22]

Quote

In real life the show would have been pulled from the air. No clip show.

You know I was thinking about that. There's precedent with how that vh1 show that cast some criminal got pulled off the air and brought down their dating show empire for a while. The show is called UnReal. It's not called Rachel or Quinn or Everlasting. As long as it's still about reality TV, there's no reason they can't shake things up. Season 2 is evidence that things clearly aren't working as they are.

Quote

Rachel's reveal was not that shocking. I actually expected to hear that she was raped by her father or brother, so it was actually less shocking than I expected.  Sadly, I felt nothing for her...which is weird.

I was thinking it was going to be her father when they started going in that direction. It would explain why her mother keeps him basically sedated with drugs as well. But maybe she's just prescription-happy. I would not mind seeing her get arrested. On this show, why not?

Quote

How long before we find out Quinn was molested by her father?

Oh, lord. Please no.

Quote

The saddest and most touching line of this episode is when Ruby told Darius that he told America that she isn't a love story. As a black woman, the reality of that statement broke my heart. The world constantly tells black women that we're not beautiful or desirable as love interests--except in rare cases, and that's usually if we're light-skinned, bi-racial, or wearing long, blond weaves. 

The promo for next week looks like some ANTM nonsense. I'm holding out the crazy hope that Ruby will somehow come back even though Denee is about to debut on Broadway and is so much better than season 2 of UnReal.

Quote

I'm disappointed that the contestants, especially Jameson, never discussed among themselves what this shooting meant for Romeo, the state of race relations in America, etc. Especially since the suitor is black but was involved in this police incident. 

Beth Ann was useless. But if the writers had wanted to go there, we could have gotten an interesting Ruby/Jameson debate out of this mess.