S12.E08: Week 7

[TheFinalRose]

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This morning on the radio they were talking about Chinese face reading, which says a prominent brow means a man is in control but can also be controlling.  Interesting, given that I felt his BBQ with 50 friends was definitely a test that Jo Jo needed to pass.

Very interesting. I thought the huge-group-of-people-picnic was kind of insensitive. My first instinct was how uncomfortable that would be, and he didn't even give her any warning of what she was walking into.  She didn't really get inside his home, either, to see how or where The Real Luke lived or how his parents lived. And then his Grandpa was making all those cryptic comments that Luke couldn't even boil water, and I thought JoJo would be running for the production SUV  after that. 

[huahaha]

I'm a romantic, so I always hope the lead will get happily ever after with their F1. Jordan was making some seriously villainous faces at the end of his hometown date with JoJo, though. His facial expressions were either masked discomfort at her questioning him again... or duping delight.

Robby apparently got the memo ahead of time that JoJo's love language is words of affirmation, so he said I love you super early. Kind of sad that it worked. Note to future bachelorettes: don't give the guys a road map to manipulating you!

ETA: Just saw the moment Luke tanked himself. JoJo gently chided him for spending no time with her that day (due to the 50 people), and then her face fell when he said he was "falling for" her instead of in love. If Bachelor producers were honest, they would have inserted an animation of a cowboy getting bucked off his mount right there.

Edited July 19, 2016 by huahaha

[dleighg]

Agree this was supremely boring. Jordon's tight pants would have looked inappropriate on a girl. And what parent would really be so into some girl who is playing the field while your son is supposedly deeply in love with her? Not this mom that's for sure. 

[UsernameFatigue]

Am I the only one who believes that Jo-Jo saying she is going to dump Luke was producer manipulation? It has been obvious from the start that he is her second favourite after Jordan, and the only one who might at the end create some drama that she might choose Luke over Jordan. Chase and Robby? Not so much. And really, even I know Luke well enough (as well as you can in 8 weeks and I have no relationship with him in person) that when he told Jo-Jo he gave her his heart that he meant he was falling in love with her.

So either it is a ratings ploy, or Jo-Jo really is shallow enough that she has to have every guy declare his love by 8 weeks in to keep him around. So lets see, she was in love with Ben 5 months ago and now is falling in love, apparently, with four others. Just the woman I would want for a wife. I think whoever doesn't get a rose is dodging a bullet. Other than Jordan of course as he has no plans to stay with Jo-Jo anyway. And who can blame him - it is obvious she is only using him to get to Aaron. 

Edited July 19, 2016 by UsernameFatigue

[ljenkins782]

14 hours ago, kazza said:

 

I am liking Chase more and more. He's solid -- low drama, has a real job, is tight with his mom and sister, wipes his feet on the doormat, shakes Robby's hand upon seeing him at the Rose Ceremony. His downfall is that he may not be flashy enough for JoJo - or for America if he is in the running for TB.

 

He shot to the top of the board for me last night too. His hometown visit felt very genuine and I kinda loved that he kicked JoJo out so he could talk to his dad for a little bit. And much as I think family drama and dirty laundry shouldn't be aired on tv, it seemed like the oddness of the situation allowed them to say some things that might not have gotten said otherwise and maybe this will be helpful to them as a family later on. 

The downside being that if Chase gets the boot now after having something of a breakthrough with his issues, that would be a real kick in the teeth. 

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For me, Chase is by far the hottest. But wow, he has issues from his parents divorce. He is a work in progress and that never turns out well. 

I don't know about that, I actually think his issues might be a good thing. From a few remarks he made to his sister, it sounds like he's not happy with the way his dad behaved toward his mom and that may make him work harder to treat a woman well. 

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Jordan was making some seriously villainous faces at the end of his hometown date with JoJo, though. His facial expressions were either masked discomfort at her questioning him again... or duping delight.

Right? I commented on that last night, the words coming out of his mouth were NOT in sync with the faces he was pulling at the same time. "I love you" [grimace] "I want this to be forever" [wrinkle, twisted lip grimace] Someone watching them from afar who couldn't hear the words would probably think that was a breakup talk. 

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Am I the only one who believes that Jo-Jo saying she is going to dump Luke was producer manipulation? It has been obvious from the start that he is her second favourite after Jordan, and the only one who might at the end create some drama that she might choose Luke over Jordan. Chase and Robby? Not so much. And really, even I know Luke well enough (as well as you can in 8 weeks and I have no relationship with him in person) that when he told Jo-Jo he gave her his heart that he meant he was falling in love with her.

I have a lot of trouble believing she'd let him go NOW since it seems like he was a lock for FS. I don't think she actually likes him as a person, only the physical aspect of things. She can't wait for him to stop droning on and kiss her. I was sure she'd keep him for the FS and boot him right after. 

On a purely shallow note, his rose ceremony outfit was horrendous. That stiff checked shirt, the bad tie with a really bad and incorrectly placed tie tack...ugh. Take a memo from Chase and go with the crisp white shirt. 

Also shallow, his sister was gorgeous. I wonder if JoJo didn't like the idea of not being the prettiest girl in the family photos, lol. 

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I still do not get the Robbie appeal. I'm so confused by her interest and attraction for him.

I don't get it either. Objectively attractive, but does absolutely nothing for me and the way he talks drives me batty. It's so valley girl or something. If his main appeal is really the fact that he said "I love you" first, that's pathetic and says a lot about JoJo's neediness. Ditto if the reason she's thinking of ditching Luke is the fact that he didn't say it. 

[JenMcSnark]

4 hours ago, CindyBee said:

The hometowns were filmed in late April so no work conflict for Aaron.   He wasn't there cause he didn't want to be there and the fact that he wouldn't even allow his image to be shown in a family pic is well just sad. 

I couldn't disagree with this more.  I have an estranged brother who is a lot like Jordan.  I would be furious if he used my fame and fortune to appear on a show like this.  And then to milk it for all it's worth. Loser.  

I think Aaron is right to ditch that family if this is any indication.  They probably brought that picture out of mothballs just to rub it in that Aaron wouldn't play ball. 

4 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

Why is Chase even on this show? He comes off like a regular, nice enough dude that appears to be gainfully employed and live in a nice house that isn't his mother's. Kind of boring sure, but there are plenty of other boring, nice women in the world he could date. Why has he tangled himself up with this debacle of a show...I'm confused. I did feel bad for him with the divorce because it clearly hurt him a lot. 

As for the Rodgers.... I didn't think there could be another person as bitter as Jordan about how much Aaron rules until we met Luke. Yeesh, dude. Get a grip, and a life, and a girlfriend that uses less hairspray. The fumes have gotten to you. Nice to see them all so cozy in their house built for them by that errant brother whose name they won't even say out loud. As for the high school date...seems like every season one dude does that, and maybe there was nothing else to do. Mr. Wovenloaf is from Northern California and tells me Chico is a dump without much going on. He can be unreliable about whether places are a dump or not...but I'm inclined to believe it after we heard Jordan tell us that he used to go hang out in that random ass field every morning as a child? Like wtf was he talking about? Was I just not paying attention? I tend to tune out everything Jordan says that isn't whiny crying about how he isn't Aaron.

Exactly.  And yes, Mr. Wovenloaf is correct.  I'm from Northern California too and have been to Chico twice for concerts at the University.  It's a small town whose only claim to fame is the "party-school" university. 

[Wings]

44 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

 

Am I the only one who believes that Jo-Jo saying she is going to dump Luke was producer manipulation?

 

No.  He will be the next bach and he knows that. He doesn't love her, he was told to pull her aside and say that.  Jordan has been her F1 for a long time.  She is totally smitten.  Any doubts she has voiced are scripted.  Robby, the most despicable (SM rumors), was chosen for F2 to cause outrage and zero sympathy when dropped, making Jordan shine through his own SM rumors!   Production had to work hard this season.  

4 hours ago, wovenloaf said:

 

Why is Chase even on this show? He comes off like a regular, nice enough dude that appears to be gainfully employed and live in a nice house that isn't his mother's.

 

Everyone goes on to see what opportunities may arise.  Sure if love happens, cool but there is always an agenda.  JoJo has one, too. She would love a media gig!  

I think JoJo focused on Jordan immediately knowing who he was.  Never know what can come of being engaged to the brother of a football star.  See?  Everyone does it.  

 

Finally FS is upon us then this torturous journey will end, soon.  BiP will be a welcome change.  Production does not have to medal much with that one!     

Edited July 19, 2016 by wings707

[kira28]

Funny that Aaron's um... I mean Jordan's family all has, that hideous hairstyle! Is it bad that I want Luke? Never really paid much attention to him but for some reason I swooned over him last night.  He's so yummy to look at and seeing him with all those friends and family.  He's the only one who seems genuine.  Saying u have my heart is so sweet and much more realistic and subtle than I've been on two dates with u k own u for five weeks and omg I love you and want to get married.  Robby is slimy. Sleazy and gross.  If I were jo jo I would run like hell when he said it was over with his ex nine months before he officially ended things.  Way to string a woman along robbie.  So u didn't want to be with her but u played along sleeping with  her and Proly telling her u loved her until something better came along.  There's ur future with robbie jo jo.  I didn't realize she was into him until she kept gushing about him this episode.  

Chase didn't even register.  Boys got issues.  I knew she was going to cut Luke as soon as she teared up then lied and said she wassoo happy.  She hates hurting people and knew she wasn't feeling Luke.  He's too small town not enough Rodgers flash for her.  He wouldn't fit in with her family or her aspirations of fame. I hated that she said she'd been wanting to hear that he loves her.  Y?  So u can reject him immediately after he professes his love.  So u have the record of nearly every contestant in love with you?? Jordan for the win .  Clearly the only one jo jo begs for reassurance from. And aside from Robby the phoniest one there.  I don't even think he likes jo jo.  U could replace her with anyone woman and as long as Jordan won he wouldn't care who the lead was 

[comosedice]

I don't think it was insensitive of Luke to create a laid back, fun setting with people who mean a lot to him and see how JoJo fits in. It's not just JoJo who is searching for love. They are both testing each other. Luke even said that he watched Jojo with his sister. He might not have been by her side the whole day but he was paying attention to her. He's methodical. I think JoJo was way into him (not as much as Jordan) until she saw where he was from. Small town living is not for everyone.

[leighdear]

Being under an NFL contract, maybe Aaron doesn't actually has the ability to just tell his family "Sure, just use whatever old photos of me you have however you want in the show".  Those guys have a lot of aspects of their lives tightly controlled, so maybe unapproved images are part of it.   It doesn't automatically mean that Aaron hates his family and refuses to allow them to use anything he's a part of.  

And why show the blurred-face photo at all? Obviously that family has thousands, and probably loads that don't have Aaron in them.  They wanted to make a FU point that Aaron is the problem and everybody else is soooooo tolerant and soooooo sad he's not with them.  There could be some nasty family attitudes about unmarried couples living together in sin, dating mixed-race people and a host of other possible reasons for the family schism.   But of course the most convenient is that Olivia made him choose between her & his family.  But nobody is saying.  

[M.F. Luder]

My baseless conjecture as to why Aaron is estranged from the family is that he decided they were making too many demands on his money/status and made him feel it was his family duty to provide for them since he has so much "excess" and it's the Christian thing to do. I just get that vibe from how Jordan explained the estrangement as "I decided to focus on family and Aaron decided not to" (obviously paraphrased). 

Also, Jordan's dad looks like the human version of one of these guys:

[saber5055]

About the divorce of Chase's parents ... when JoJo asked why they got divorced (it's none of your business!) I was waiting for Chase to say his dad had three girlfriends on the side plus another wife in Arizona and two kids out of wedlock, so Mom filed. But ... no. No explanation. Which let me come up with that great scenario!

[slowpoked]

17 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Robby reminded me of Will Forte on SNL when he was getting nervous about the ex girlfriend thing

THANK YOU! It's been bothering me for awhile now who he looks like!

[backformore]

5 hours ago, TheFinalRose said:

Even Jordan's family hates him, as the dinner table talk was all about what a bad boy he was, kicking the teacher, running away from home. 

I couldn't get over how Jojo and mom were laughing so hard at the story about Jordan threatening to run away from home.  Like he was the only child in history who has ever done that, and it was SO indicative of him being a "bad boy".   (see Dennis the Menace, Opie Taylor, for examples of this being around since 1960)

[dleighg]

Has any guy actually said "I LOVE YOU" as opposed to "I've fallen in love with you" or "I'm in love with you"? I count myself among those who don't understand how one can be "in love" in a one-sided relationship, but there is still a subtle difference between "I love you" and "I'm in love with you". One is completely wrapped up in that one person, and the other is "a feeling."

[Kbilly]

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(Chico) is a small town whose only claim to fame is the "party-school" university. 

Don't forget it's the home of Shawntel the Mortician, whose hometown visit included a pretend embalming.

It was interesting that little brother also wore #12....

I have said a lot that I don't get why she seems to like Robby so much but when they were talking about his ex situation they seemed to have a really good connection, actually talking.

I didn't hear Jojo say she was going to cut Luke (must've been the fact that RNC delayed the start until 9 last night and also wine) Why did the producers bother setting up that romantic getaway then along with his own special soundtrack? I don't get it

Edited July 19, 2016 by Kbilly

[Wings]

42 minutes ago, M.F. Luder said:

 

My baseless conjecture as to why Aaron is estranged from the family is that he decided they were making too many demands on his money/status and made him feel it was his family duty to provide for them since he has so much "excess" and it's the Christian thing to do. I just get that vibe from how Jordan explained the estrangement as "I decided to focus on family and Aaron decided not to" (obviously paraphrased).

 

I bet you are right.  It makes sense.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Bachelorette Visited Aaron Rodgers's Hometown, And All She Got Was This Stupid Brother

JoJo is visiting the remaining four guys' hometowns and ranking them by worthiness of their families. Who will prevail?

[LotusFlower]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Am I the only one who believes that Jo-Jo saying she is going to dump Luke was producer manipulation? It has been obvious from the start that he is her second favourite after Jordan, and the only one who might at the end create some drama that she might choose Luke over Jordan. Chase and Robby? Not so much. And really, even I know Luke well enough (as well as you can in 8 weeks and I have no relationship with him in person) that when he told Jo-Jo he gave her his heart that he meant he was falling in love with her.

No, you're not the only one at all (I said something similar upthread).  It was so jarring when JoJo said she was going to cut Luke in her TH interview - when do they ever say that ahead of time?  Never!  For obvious reasons - it cuts the suspense of the rose ceremony.  And then Luke stepped forward to proclaim his love.  What a funny coincidence!  Right after JoJo said she was going to eliminate him.  IMO, the producers couldn't be more obvious.  

After Jojo ends her sobfest, she'll give a rose to Luke, because she'll say she has strong feelings for him and needed to hear the same from him.  Then she'll cut Robby.  And pretend to care.  

[seacliffsal]

I think Aaron has every right to not be a part of this show and that I have more respect for him that for others who play along.  I also think that the producers are trying to connect the show to him as he is pretty well known; and no matter what else, they are connecting to him via family 'disappointment'.  I laughed every time Jordan said that he made his own way without any help from Aaron.  He is still trying to use Aaron for advancement.  He never had to mention his brother at all, but made sure came up.  If I met someone with the last name of Rodgers, I would not immediately jump to 'you must be related to...'  And even talking about his football career, etc.  That was an amazing home the Rodgers family had and I would believe Aaron paid for it as it looked huge.  The family is totally going along with what the producers want, so that's on them.  I binge watched season 1 of Ballers, and basically, the young football star had everyone in his family and circle making demands on him to the point that he had spent all of his 12 million dollar signing bonus.  It was so 'look at all we did for you, now you have to do for us' and just by being a casual watcher of The Bachelorette, it seems that there might be parallels between Ballers and the show.  There often comes a point when we tell our family and friends that we have to take care of ourselves.  The family seemed very passive-aggressive about Aaron.  And really, even if the family was extremely tight with each other, why would he want to be on the show?

[LotusFlower]

So it appears Jordan was an anti-gay activist while at Vanderbilt.  The link attached is from 2012 when Jordan was a student and QB at Vanderbilt and spoke out against a non-discrimination policy in regards to school groups. The whole thing is an interesting read for anyone who's interested, and to me provides a theory as to the family estrangement, but I'll pull one quote from the comments section from a Vanderbilt alum who was at the town hall or symposium in question and witnessed Jordan's contribution: 

"These kids are nothing more than brainwashed products of Christian zealots/bigots who don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. One of these kids, Jordan Rogers, was particularly rude and unprofessional- he insulted both vice chancellors leading the meeting, was abrasive, repeatedly interrupted them when they were trying to answer his questions, and openly said that he does not think gays should be allowed in “his Christian group.” He then stormed out of the meeting like a spoiled brat when they moved on to ask the next person’s question since he had monopolized their time for close to 10 minutes."

Poor Aaron.  Poor JoJo.  Unless she knows and doesn't care.  Or thinks the same.  Here's the link: 

http://www.outsports.com/2012/2/9/4052562/jordan-rodgers-aarons-brother-speaks-out-against-vanderbilts

[huahaha]

31 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Poor Aaron.  Poor JoJo.  Unless she knows and doesn't care.  Or thinks the same.  Here's the link: 

http://www.outsports.com/2012/2/9/4052562/jordan-rodgers-aarons-brother-speaks-out-against-vanderbilts

The article has the FCA's sexual purity clause quoted:

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God desires His children to lead pure lives of holiness. The Bible is clear in teaching on sexual sin including sex outside of marriage and homosexual acts. Neither heterosexual sex outside of marriage nor any homosexual act constitute an alternative lifestyle acceptable to God.

Who knew Jordan was a virgin!!!

[wovenloaf]

Ha! Is there an exception for Fantasy Suites in that purity clause?!?!

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, saber5055 said:

About the divorce of Chase's parents ... when JoJo asked why they got divorced (it's none of your business!) I was waiting for Chase to say his dad had three girlfriends on the side plus another wife in Arizona and two kids out of wedlock, so Mom filed. But ... no. No explanation. Which let me come up with that great scenario!

That whole thing was so irritating.  First the big news that Chase came from "a broken home," like it's a rarity in this country with a 50% divorce rate.  Then all that "issues," talk with his sister, and Chase saying he had trouble saying he loved anyone because of his parents divorce.  What does that have to do with it?  Surely you can love someone without having to marry them and surely if you do get married you don't have to follow it up with divorce. I would think young people like Chase and his sister would be eager to start their own families and not make the same mistakes their parents made.  Every year the show implies that the people whose parents didn't get divorced don't have issues about anything and their parents' marriages were deliriously happy every day of their lives.  What about the "issues," when the kids grow up in an atmosphere of constant fighting or one parent controlling the other or physical and emotional abuse?  In any case it's still none of JoJo's  business.  Even Chase probably doesn't know the whole story.  I wish Chase's father had looked JoJo in the eye and told her all about their disappointing sex life.

On a lighter note, I laughed at Luke's pivotal moment when he first realized he was in love with JoJo -- he looked over at her during the picnic and saw her in those boots and short shorts and he just knew.

[dleighg]

6 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

On a lighter note, I laughed at Luke's pivotal moment when he first realized he was in love with JoJo -- he looked over at her during the picnic and saw her in those boots and short shorts and he just knew.

And when he put her on the horse looking at her backside in those shorts and said "look at you!" Yeah we know what you were lookin' at

[violet and green]

5 minutes ago, dleighg said:

And when he put her on the horse looking at her backside in those shorts and said "look at you!" Yeah we know what you were lookin' at

I thought he was complimenting her for the ease with which she swung her leg over and sat into the saddle, like she'd been riding horses all her life.

[leighdear]

I absolutely believe the producers told Jo to cut Luke before Fantasy Suites.  I think he's going to be the next Bachelor and they don't want him having sex with her, so they told her that cutting him loose early would be "merciful".  

Wow, that article from Vanderbilt is pretty eye-opening.  He's even more of a tool than I thought he was. 

[haje]

1 hour ago, LotusFlower said:

So it appears Jordan was an anti-gay activist while at Vanderbilt.  The link attached is from 2012 when Jordan was a student and QB at Vanderbilt and spoke out against a non-discrimination policy in regards to school groups. The whole thing is an interesting read for anyone who's interested, and to me provides a theory as to the family estrangement, but I'll pull one quote from the comments section from a Vanderbilt alum who was at the town hall or symposium in question and witnessed Jordan's contribution: 

"These kids are nothing more than brainwashed products of Christian zealots/bigots who don’t know their ass from a hole in the ground. One of these kids, Jordan Rogers, was particularly rude and unprofessional- he insulted both vice chancellors leading the meeting, was abrasive, repeatedly interrupted them when they were trying to answer his questions, and openly said that he does not think gays should be allowed in “his Christian group.” He then stormed out of the meeting like a spoiled brat when they moved on to ask the next person’s question since he had monopolized their time for close to 10 minutes."

Poor Aaron.  Poor JoJo.  Unless she knows and doesn't care.  Or thinks the same.  Here's the link: 

http://www.outsports.com/2012/2/9/4052562/jordan-rodgers-aarons-brother-speaks-out-against-vanderbilts

I would not be surprised if the gay rumours (true or not) around Aaron is a part of the reason for said estrangement. His family seems very typical Conservative Christian. I have a friend who was a huge fan of Aaron be more wary of him because she saw his dad post some bigoted stuff on facebook (typical anti-muslim stuff) and was worried that Aaron felt the same way and she's pretty happy about the fact that he doesn't talk to his family now. I think Aaron is a Christian but definitely not in the way his family seems to be, especially when you see him calling out an anti-muslim fan during a press conference. The gay rumours plus his belief system no longer coinciding with theirs plus the whole Jordan cheating on Olivia Munn's bff stuff probably were enough for him to no longer want to talk them. And frankly, it makes me think better of him. 

[violet and green]

30 minutes ago, leighdear said:

I absolutely believe the producers told Jo to cut Luke before Fantasy Suites.  I think he's going to be the next Bachelor and they don't want him having sex with her, so they told her that cutting him loose early would be "merciful".  

Wow, that article from Vanderbilt is pretty eye-opening.  He's even more of a tool than I thought he was. 

I still think she's going to cut Robbie, who keeps telling us and the other guys he's a frontrunner, but who I can only recall from a bad kissing against the pool-table scene early on and that stuffing the mouth with chips group date undie run, so hardly a frontrunner. (Apparently they went on a date, but I have forgotten it.) Plus, how can you date or sleep with a man with a modified beehive that looks like molded icecream hair?! It runs in the family, too. Mind you, he's a smarmy player and a liar, and that really is her type, so...

All along I've believed it would be Luke in the final two, and Jordan finally getting kicked to the curb for being a slimeball. But actually, JoJo coming to her senses and picking Luke over Jordan is highly unlikely now, so maybe him being the next Bachelor wouldn't be such a bad outcome. (My heart breaks for Luke! I can't bear the thought of him staring off moodily into the distance until the next season of the Bachelor starts, pining for JoJo.) I think he deserves a more well-rounded person, really, so getting cut loose from this shitshow would be good either way.

[LotusFlower]

4 minutes ago, haje said:

I would not be surprised if the gay rumours (true or not) around Aaron is a part of the reason for said estrangement. His family seems very typical Conservative Christian. I have a friend who was a huge fan of Aaron be more wary of him because she saw his dad post some bigoted stuff on facebook (typical anti-muslim stuff) and was worried that Aaron felt the same way and she's pretty happy about the fact that he doesn't talk to his family now. I think Aaron is a Christian but definitely not in the way his family seems to be, especially when you see him calling out an anti-muslim fan during a press conference. The gay rumours plus his belief system no longer coinciding with theirs plus the whole Jordan cheating on Olivia Munn's bff stuff probably were enough for him to no longer want to talk them. And frankly, it makes me think better of him. 

Yes, I said something similar in the thread for last week's episode after Jordan implied the estrangement was due to different values.  All of it adds up.  Especially after I read things about Aaron's father.  Er, I mean Jordan.  I googled him because he looks exactly like one of those character actors that's in a ton of movies, but I can't think of his name and it's really bugging me (anyone?).  Instead, I read a lot about him that's not too favorable, at least in my book.  Apparently he was outraged when the gay rumors about Aaron came out, and he allegedly even posted on a site that Aaron was engaged to a "beautiful Christian woman."  

This stuff is way more interesting to me than this boring season.

[JenE4]

Not being snarky but genuinely want to know what it is about Luke that so many of you are seeing that I'm not. To me, he seems totally closed off. And not even in a "My codependent love is going to break down his walls and make him a better man, more in touch with his inner child" kind of way. But in a "This guy has some serious PTSD from the war and/or Texan cowboys aren't allowed to have emotions" kind of way. I mean, the horse riding date I think he ACTUALLY smiled, but other than that, he looks seriously depressed at all times. I don't think I've seen a personality other than stoically poised.

Granted, there are some slim pickins this year out of this group. If I had to pick anyone, both Chase and Robby seem like decent, datable options. And, admittedly, if adoring Chad is Wrong Reasons, then I don't want to be Right! 

[leighdear]

^^^ Agree.  I don't see a shred of personality with Luke, but I do think he's the next lead.  When the whole group sucks, they just pick the one that sucks the least.  

[violet and green]

The way this thing's going Chad will be the next lead!

[Madding crowd]

I agree wth you about Luke. He seems very closed off to me and I don't get what JoJo sees in him. I think the other guys are all better looking and more personality.

[adhoc]

4 hours ago, Kbilly said:

I didn't hear Jojo say she was going to cut Luke (must've been the fact that RNC delayed the start until 9 last night and also wine)

She did say she was going to cut him. It sounded very scripted, as has much of what comes out of her mouth this season. During the rose ceremony, Luke keeps kind of hemming and hawing--in retrospect, I now think maybe he was watching his handler who was off camera and waiting for him/her to cue him to interrupt Joelle. 

4 hours ago, Kbilly said:

Why did the producers bother setting up that romantic getaway then along with his own special soundtrack? I don't get it

Possibly to provide a "backstory" for Luke, should he become the next bachelor (since it's clear she's just not that into him and she didn't see herself living in Podunk, TX).  Cue clip of romantic sunset/hay bale couch with special song as you hear the following voiceover: "War veteran Luke thought he'd found love with Joelle on the Bachelorette, offering her his heart--only to be sent home heartbroken instead. Now he's back, still hoping to find that one special lady to ride off into the sunset with. Watch Luke's search for love unfold on this season of The Bachelor."  

[kazza]

34 minutes ago, JenE4 said:

Not being snarky but genuinely want to know what it is about Luke that so many of you are seeing that I'm not. To me, he seems totally closed off. And not even in a "My codependent love is going to break down his walls and make him a better man, more in touch with his inner child" kind of way. But in a "This guy has some serious PTSD from the war and/or Texan cowboys aren't allowed to have emotions" kind of way. I mean, the horse riding date I think he ACTUALLY smiled, but other than that, he looks seriously depressed at all times. I don't think I've seen a personality other than stoically poised.

For me, it's all about his unabashed masculinity and depth of life experience. I see the stoicism as restraint and discipline, which score highly for me. Plus, the other guys just seem like boys around him, with their snarking, immaculate hair, and premature professions of love.

Granted, this is the version the editors want us to see, so who really knows. 

Oddly, Jordan's way of grabbing JoJo's hand while walking ahead of her grates on me. Some may see that as masculinity. Maybe it's because I see Jordan's confidence as cockiness, while Luke's confidence is quiet. 

And I've spent way too much time thinking about this. 

[Adeejay]

13 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

for some reason, all I could think about tonight was some of the past seasons REALLY BAD hometown visits, there were so many, and so many that the siblings or parents put a damper on the romance, most famously Meredith when she met Lanny's Mom. I wonder if there are you tubes out there of that. I LOVED Lanny but she couldnt ditch him fast enough afterwards. All these Moms seemed to really like Jo-Jo and she does make a very nice impression.

Those were the days.  I think Meredith's visit with Lanny's Christian, conservative Mother is an all time Bachelorette classic.  JoJo comes across as warm and approachable, so I can see why the families like her. 

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

And, admittedly, if adoring Chad is Wrong Reasons, then I don't want to be Right! 

Me either!

[Canada]

So sex before marriage is not acceptable for Jordan, but going to the Fantasy Suite and cheating on an ex is okay?  Did that cheating consist purely of hand-holding and pecks on the cheek?  What a hypocrite and exactly why I hate religion in general.  We'll make demands of people, but not follow the rules ourselves. 

Colour me shocked, but I didn't hate Chase or Robby this episode.  I've not been impressed with most of the guys this season, especially the final 4, and was not looking forward to one of them being the next Bachelor.  But maybe now one of Chase or Robbie would be okay.  Still hating on Luke and Jordan and their obsession with tight pants, amongst other transgressions.

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Not being snarky but genuinely want to know what it is about Luke that so many of you are seeing that I'm not. To me, he seems totally closed off. And not even in a "My codependent love is going to break down his walls and make him a better man, more in touch with his inner child" kind of way. But in a "This guy has some serious PTSD from the war and/or Texan cowboys aren't allowed to have emotions" kind of way. I mean, the horse riding date I think he ACTUALLY smiled, but other than that, he looks seriously depressed at all times. I don't think I've seen a personality other than stoically poised.

Granted, there are some slim pickins this year out of this group. If I had to pick anyone, both Chase and Robby seem like decent, datable options. And, admittedly, if adoring Chad is Wrong Reasons, then I don't want to be Right! 

I totally agree with you about everything you just said. I have always thought that Luke seemed a little off and posted something to that effect a while back. I thought PTSD too. I don't get the attraction to him at all. He seems nice but even when his dad started to get a little choked up, Luke seemed uncomfortable and looked away, almost stone faced. Then mumbled out a very bland, "love you". It was weird to me. Plus I don't think he's cute and I hate how he talks.

I had no problem whatsoever with Chad. I actually thought he was pretty funny. You probably can't be a girl with a stick up your ass to hang around him. JoJo is over sensitive and wants her "man" to be the same. Whiny, crybaby, girly, man-children are not attractive to me. Very obviously, that's what she likes.

I hate how they focused on Chase's divorced parents as if he's special somehow. I like him better than the rest which is why I hope she doesn't pick him. He's too good for her. However, every man I've ever known with divorced parents has delivered the same song and dance, "My parents were divorced and I didn't like it so I never want to get a divorce like they did. That makes me a better man. I'm special." No, Dear, nobody wants to get a divorce. I haven't met a single person who got married with the intention of divorcing at some point. There was no reason to bring it up at all actually. Nobody can help their upbringing or who their parents are. Can anybody really tell me that if you met a great guy and dated him for a couple months, loved the hell out of him, that you'd dump him because you found out his parents were divorced? It's a fucking stupid topic of conversation that should come out when the guy is ready to talk about it because ultimately it doesn't even matter.

[jumper sage]

I enjoyed reading all of your opinions.  I am bored out of my mind with this show.  They really need to cut it back to 1 hour.  This 2 hour thing just loses me completely.  They really don't have enough material for 2 hours.  Just show the pertinent information and make it 1 hour or I am gone.

[Canada]

1 minute ago, Nowhere said:

I had no problem whatsoever with Chad. I actually thought he was pretty funny. You probably can't be a girl with a stick up your ass to hang around him. JoJo is over sensitive and wants her "man" to be the same. Whiny, crybaby, girly, man-children are not attractive to me. Very obviously, that's what she likes.

 

OMG, yes to this!!!  Plus, Chad wasn't all about JoJo, which another reason why she didn't keep him around.

[riff-raff]

Well, count me in as one of those who was actively uncomfortable watching the Rodgers family edition of home towns this week.  This is a real family, with real hurt and problems.  And yet here they were, throwing Aaron to the wolves for their time in the sun.   I've not had a problem with JoJo in general to this point, but her gossipy attempts to ferret out the "what happened to Aaron," left me cold as well.  I'm more that happy to see the willing participants in this show embarrass themselves and behave badly, but dragging in absent family members to make good TV seemed like a new low.  

[Wings]

Producers told families the questions JoJo was going to ask ahead.  Had anyone said no,  they would respect that; they did not sign up for the show; their child did.  I think they have a shred of integrity with the families. And JoJo was told what to ask.  It was all cleared ahead.  It went like clock work.  And I am not saying they did not have to twist some arms along the way. 

15 minutes ago, riff-raff said:

.....throwing Aaron to the wolves for their time in the sun.

They told the truth, why shouldn't they?  Jordan let the cat out of the bag.  To deny the situation would be awkward for Jordan and they wouldn't do that to him.  Jordan's family was not seeking time in the sun.  Jordan got them into this.  And it was admirable that he also told the truth.  Why would there be any reason to protect Aaron when he has shunned them?   He has to live the consequences of his actions, we all do. 

I hate this show, I would stop watching but there is a gun to my head. 

Edited July 20, 2016 by wings707

[ribboninthesky1]

23 hours ago, adhoc said:

I sure hope that was not Luke's usual "I'm deeply involved with this woman" kiss. TBH, it came over more like a "She has bad breath but I don't know how to tell her" kiss. Or even an "I'm thinking about another woman" kiss.  I've complained about this before with Luke. Although he looks so masculine, so intense, he simply doesn't swoop in and claim Jojo like Jordan does--or like even the other guys do, to one degree or another. Luke's kisses look pretty chaste, and while I originally thought it was because he might have problems with PDAs in front of a bunch of cameras, I don't think that now. 

This comment and others made me realize that Luke may not be that into JoJo. When I care enough to look, body language indicates more to me than what's being said, since it's harder to fake.  I went back and watched clips of them kissing, and JoJo seems more into it.  It could also be that he's just not a great kisser and introverted on top of it.  Very few who swing towards the introverted come off well on this show. 

23 hours ago, kazza said:

I am liking Chase more and more. He's solid -- low drama, has a real job, is tight with his mom and sister, wipes his feet on the doormat, shakes Robby's hand upon seeing him at the Rose Ceremony. His downfall is that he may not be flashy enough for JoJo - or for America if he is in the running for TB.

Hee at the bolded! Sometimes, it's the little things. 

[Nowhere]

2 hours ago, adhoc said:

She did say she was going to cut him. It sounded very scripted, as has much of what comes out of her mouth this season. During the rose ceremony, Luke keeps kind of hemming and hawing--in retrospect, I now think maybe he was watching his handler who was off camera and waiting for him/her to cue him to interrupt Joelle. 

Possibly to provide a "backstory" for Luke, should he become the next bachelor (since it's clear she's just not that into him and she didn't see herself living in Podunk, TX).  Cue clip of romantic sunset/hay bale couch with special song as you hear the following voiceover: "War veteran Luke thought he'd found love with Joelle on the Bachelorette, offering her his heart--only to be sent home heartbroken instead. Now he's back, still hoping to find that one special lady to ride off into the sunset with. Watch Luke's search for love unfold on this season of The Bachelor."  

So did Luke actually say he was in love with her? If he hasn't actually said it then I do think that he knows and she knows that he will be the next bachelor. That way they can say that although JoJo had his heart, he still knew that someone with the right reasons was out there for him. Anyway, I at least know that she's not getting rid of him this time. I think it will be Chase since he's the most normal and we can't have that now can we?

[backformore]

I agree that Luke is stoic, he reminds me in looks of a young Clint Eastwood, but also he reminds me of the strong silent cowboy type Eastwood sometimes played in movies.  maybe it's that forehead crease, I don't know.

  I don't think it's fair to say he has PTSD just because he was in the service.  we're not being shown any nightmares, flashbacks, panic attacks, hypersensitivity to loud noises  - so I have no idea why people are saying he has a psychiatric diagnosis like PTSD.  He seems pretty normal, just a bit more quiet and pensive in comparison to some of the other personalities on the show. 

[LotusFlower]

49 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Why would there be any reason to protect Aaron when he has shunned them?   

Maybe they shunned him.  (That's what I think).  

[backformore]

2 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Maybe they shunned him.  (That's what I think).  

Maybe.  Regardless, there are always at least two sides.  And we're only seeing one.  

[Wings]

3 minutes ago, LotusFlower said:

Maybe they shunned him.  (That's what I think).  

I didn't get that impression at all.  Parents rarely shun their kids, they just don't.  We love our children to lengths, sometimes detrimental, to embrace, help and love them.  I saw them pained by the estrangement.   They all missed him and wished it were different.  YMMV

Edited July 20, 2016 by wings707