S01.E05: The Flea and the Acrobat

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, Unclejosh said:

I keep getting distracted by Jonathan because I think he resembles a young Axl Rose and thinking he should play him if they ever do a biopic of Guns N Roses.

Somehow, Jonathan seems to look like a dozen different people. I've now seen people compare him to Axl Rose, Norman Reedus, Kevin Bacon, River Phoenix, David Bowie, Edward Furlong and more. And the weird thing is, they're all right.

[phoenics]

On 7/25/2016 at 1:05 AM, Armchair Critic said:

I agree that Lucas is annoying, he is the whiniest of the kids. 

It's because they never bothered to give him a PoV, and he dared to not like El/Mike's interaction.  Without a PoV, some fans can't identify with him and so all they see is shrill yelling kid.  Sadly, they never actually gave him a PoV - we never really heard what he was thinking - they had ANOTHER character tell us what he was thinking.  I hate to say this outloud, but I see this A LOT with characters of color.  They rarely get to speak for themselves - someone else typically tells us their PoV.  They let Lucas down as a character on this show, TBH.  And they also let the other kid down too - but he was written as "funny yet smart" so we forgive his lack of PoV more.  You can be funny without a PoV, but you can't be "whiny" without a PoV.  Fans turn on you.

ETA:  Also - Eleven was intentionally misleading them and obviously using her powers to prevent them from finding out that the gate was in the research lab that SHE CAME FROM so they wouldn't find out that SHE opened the gate.  But we see her PoV - we get flashbacks to show us how horrible her life was there and that it was an accident, etc..  We are given her PoV so we can identify with her - even though what she's doing is WRONG.  Lucas doesn't get that benefit.  No PoV other than him realizing that she's using her powers and leading them around in circles and he doesn't know why she's doing this - for all he knows she IS the monster.  Even though outwardly he was shrill - his motives/actions make sense - even without his PoV.

Edited September 16, 2016 by phoenics

[zxy556575]

4 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Somehow, Jonathan seems to look like a dozen different people. I've now seen people compare him to Axl Rose, Norman Reedus, Kevin Bacon, River Phoenix, David Bowie, Edward Furlong and more. And the weird thing is, they're all right.

That's funny. It's the cheekbones and narrow eyes.

[Aja]

18 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Somehow, Jonathan seems to look like a dozen different people. I've now seen people compare him to Axl Rose, Norman Reedus, Kevin Bacon, River Phoenix, David Bowie, Edward Furlong and more. And the weird thing is, they're all right.

I think he looks like Bjork.

[Danny Franks]

2 minutes ago, Aja said:

I think he looks like Bjork.

Again, you're not wrong. Is Charlie Heaton like a polymorph or something?

The Nancy/Emmy Rossum similarities are hard to shake as well. Natalia Dyer looks like a scaled down version of her.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Stranger Things May Be Fantasy, But Its Look Is (Mostly) Fact

Fact-checking the look of Stranger Things S01.E05. You know, for science!

[Happytobehere]

On September 14, 2016 at 9:43 PM, phoenics said:

It's because they never bothered to give him a PoV, and he dared to not like El/Mike's interaction.  Without a PoV, some fans can't identify with him and so all they see is shrill yelling kid.  Sadly, they never actually gave him a PoV - we never really heard what he was thinking - they had ANOTHER character tell us what he was thinking.  I hate to say this outloud, but I see this A LOT with characters of color.  They rarely get to speak for themselves - someone else typically tells us their PoV.  They let Lucas down as a character on this show, TBH.  And they also let the other kid down too - but he was written as "funny yet smart" so we forgive his lack of PoV more.  You can be funny without a PoV, but you can't be "whiny" without a PoV.  Fans turn on you.

ETA:  Also - Eleven was intentionally misleading them and obviously using her powers to prevent them from finding out that the gate was in the research lab that SHE CAME FROM so they wouldn't find out that SHE opened the gate.  But we see her PoV - we get flashbacks to show us how horrible her life was there and that it was an accident, etc..  We are given her PoV so we can identify with her - even though what she's doing is WRONG.  Lucas doesn't get that benefit.  No PoV other than him realizing that she's using her powers and leading them around in circles and he doesn't know why she's doing this - for all he knows she IS the monster.  Even though outwardly he was shrill - his motives/actions make sense - even without his PoV.

Exactly.  I also don't think it's a coincidence or an accident that the black is the kid that have made it easy and acceptable for people to dislike. He has no PoV because for the show runners, he is the one who doesn't fit in, the one who doesn't belong.  I just wish they would have had the guts to pull a South Park and named him Token, that way everyone could have been in on the joke as they marginalized and otherized him.

[phoenics]

One last point about the diversity regarding how it's "more realistic" that there were barely any PoC in the town.  That may be true (ignoring the whole, but we've got monsters, so realisim isn't everything argument)... but did anyone realize that not one of us even considered why they couldn't have cast a black kid as the main kid and family?  Like could Mike have been black?  Thus Nancy and her family could have been black?

Or even Will.  He could have been black, so his mom and brother too.  Or Latino.  Or Asian.

But no... that never crossed our minds, did it?

[secnarf]

11 hours ago, phoenics said:

One last point about the diversity regarding how it's "more realistic" that there were barely any PoC in the town.  That may be true (ignoring the whole, but we've got monsters, so realisim isn't everything argument)... but did anyone realize that not one of us even considered why they couldn't have cast a black kid as the main kid and family?  Like could Mike have been black?  Thus Nancy and her family could have been black?

Or even Will.  He could have been black, so his mom and brother too.  Or Latino.  Or Asian.

But no... that never crossed our minds, did it?

Speaking only for myself, no, it did not. It also never occurred to me that Lucas could have been any other race except black.

Now that I am thinking about it, it would have been pretty interesting to have the Byers family be black. Or even Eleven.

[EarlGreyTea]

On 9/18/2016 at 5:00 PM, Happytobehere said:

Exactly.  I also don't think it's a coincidence or an accident that the black is the kid that have made it easy and acceptable for people to dislike. He has no PoV because for the show runners, he is the one who doesn't fit in, the one who doesn't belong.  I just wish they would have had the guts to pull a South Park and named him Token, that way everyone could have been in on the joke as they marginalized and otherized him.

Great post. The Duffers have a real chance to change this for season two, and I really hope they do. Mods, are we allowed to create new threads? I'd love to create one for Lucas to continue this discussion, which I find so interesting, but I don't want to stray too far off the this episode topic. (Um, and while I'm at it - one for Mike too?)

Edited September 19, 2016 by EarlGreyTea

[methodwriter85]

On 9/15/2016 at 0:01 PM, Danny Franks said:

Again, you're not wrong. Is Charlie Heaton like a polymorph or something?

The Nancy/Emmy Rossum similarities are hard to shake as well. Natalia Dyer looks like a scaled down version of her.

I see Benico Del Toro myself.

If you really look at Natalia and Emmy, the main similarity is really their voices and mannerisms.

[heatherchandler]

On 7/16/2016 at 2:06 AM, lucindabelle said:

 

anyone else have a blonde wig hanging out at home? In 1983 12 year old girls didn't wear pink smocked dresses. She never needed a wig. They could have just said she's a cancer survivor. That's what most people would have assumed.

I had a blonde wig at home!  Any little girl who plays dress-up had one.

I think the smocked dress is spot-on.  I had several, they were my favorite. Wore them with cardigan sweaters for some reason.

 

On 7/24/2016 at 1:37 PM, paramitch said:

I always hate scenes where people trash their own houses, so I have cringed at every scene of Joyce further destroying that house, especially since she doesn't seem to actually own it.

Aahhh!  I thought I was the only person who was annoyed by that!  I hate when characters trash their house- I'm always thinking "you are going to have to clean that up!"

On 7/25/2016 at 2:06 AM, sisterspoon said:

I've finally found what bugs me in Rider's interpretation.  Her posture.  She's a single mother, she works a lot for her money, she is alone to raise her boys and she seems to be doing a darn good job.  So why, oh why, even though she's up against mysterious and impossible things, does she stoop so much?  

She's got a beaten down stoop.  She probably doesn't make much money, her husband isn't around to help her.  She's not like "look at me doing it all!"  It's more like the world has beaten her down.

[tivofanatic]

So Nancy crawls into the hole in the tree trunk with barely any hesitation?  I'd buy it more from Joyce.  At least she's got angry mama bear motivation.  

[DidISayThat]

On September 14, 2016 at 5:36 PM, Danny Franks said:

Somehow, Jonathan seems to look like a dozen different people. I've now seen people compare him to Axl Rose, Norman Reedus, Kevin Bacon, River Phoenix, David Bowie, Edward Furlong and more. And the weird thing is, they're all right.

I see Bill Hader 

[iMonrey]

You're killing me with all the comparisons to Jonathan - and I agree with most of them. I don't really see Emmy Rossum in Nancy though.

Quote

I also don't think it's a coincidence or an accident that the black is the kid that have made it easy and acceptable for people to dislike.

I don't dislike him - in fact I pretty much agree with him. From his perspective, El is a traitor, and I myself am kind of annoyed with her. I know she's been traumatized and she's scared and blah blah blah, but I am always annoyed by characters who are ciphers walking around with pertinent information they refuse to divulge for  . . . reasons. I feel like Lucas - I just want to take her, shake her and yell at her to spit it out.

[Danny Franks]

On 08/02/2017 at 0:14 AM, iMonrey said:

I don't dislike him - in fact I pretty much agree with him. From his perspective, El is a traitor, and I myself am kind of annoyed with her. I know she's been traumatized and she's scared and blah blah blah, but I am always annoyed by characters who are ciphers walking around with pertinent information they refuse to divulge for  . . . reasons. I feel like Lucas - I just want to take her, shake her and yell at her to spit it out.

I give Eleven a pass for not spitting it all out, because she just doesn't know how to have normal human interactions. I don't know if she's ever spoken to another child, let alone tried to keep up with three of them talking over each other and asking questions. I just don't think she knows how to say most of what needs to be said.

Having said that, I don't expect Lucas to understand or sympathise with that. He just wants answers and for this interloper to either provide them, or go away.

[laurakaye]

On 9/14/2016 at 5:36 PM, Danny Franks said:

Somehow, Jonathan seems to look like a dozen different people. I've now seen people compare him to Axl Rose, Norman Reedus, Kevin Bacon, River Phoenix, David Bowie, Edward Furlong and more. And the weird thing is, they're all right.

I see a young Stephen King.

[Babalooie]

On ‎1‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 4:32 PM, DidISayThat said:

see Bill Hader 

I told the hubby that we have two SNL alumni on this show...Bill Hader and Kristin Wiig (El).

[Cowgirl]

I'm loving all the Charlie/Jonathan look-alikes too! 

I think that Nancy looks like the girl who plays the oldest daughter on American Housewife. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Lonnie is THE WORST. He has been an absent and unreliable father for years and is the kind of person who won't even call his ex back when she tells him that their child (who he called a f**) is missing. Yet somehow he thinks it's his place to swoop in, tell her to stop acting crazy, and tell their other kid what kind of poster is appropriate and to behave at his brother's funeral. Then he has the nerve to pretend he cares when he's really just after a big payday for the death of a son he never made time for. On top of that, he has the gall to blame Joyce for Will's death. FUCK YOU, LONNIE. He has a lot of balls to tell her she's a mess. Look who's talking.

I am never sure whether characters like Hopper are brave or stupid. I just know that if I saw a wall covered in breathing slime, I wouldn't walk up and touch it. But I love that as soon  as he woke up, he refused to buy the story that the lab  wanted him to believe, that it was all a dream and he was just really high the night before. Watching him tear the house apart to find the bug they left was really satisfying.

Man, I really have to admire Hopper's commitment when he unscrewed every light bulb in Joyce's house to makes sure there weren't any bugs.

I spent most of the episode wishing that he and Jonathan would both tell Joyce that she wasn't crazy and everything she's seen were real. I was so relieved when Hopper finally told her that he knew she was right all along.

Dustin lecturing the other boys about compasses and true north totally cracked me up.

Hey, Nancy, whenever you have to defend your boyfriend by telling someone that "he's actually a good guy," chances are that he isn't actually a good guy. Furthermore, saying things like, "Yesterday, with the camera - he's not like that at all." Oh, really? Because he sure was "like that" yesterday when he did it. Again, still not defending Jonathan being a peeping Tom, but still.

Jonathan definitely won a few points back when he saw that Nancy was a better shot and let her have the gun. On the one hand, it seems silly to say that because DUH, he was being logical. Unfortunately, some males would let their egos get in the way even when it was in their own self interest/safety.

Watching El "consent" to going into the bath made me so sad. It was clear that she didn't want to do it and she was only saying yes because she knew that's what Brenner wanted. The last time she said no to him, he had two attendants lock her in a closet. Even worse, when Brenner and the others knew something weird was happening in the bath and she was banging on the glass screaming for help, they left her in there.

I don't see Lucas as shrill or unlikable at all. He was right to be skeptical and he was right to be suspicious because El WAS leading them astray. Sure, she's doing it to protect them from The Big Bad, but none of them know that. I don't blame Lucas at all for being upset that she just led them on a wild goose chase. I'd be mad if I spent all day walking in a circle too.

Edited July 11, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Pagali]

I don't see how El was leading them astray. She led them to Will's house and said he was there. Then they see the body being taken out of the reservoir and assume she was lying. But she wasn't -- we learn later that body isn't Will, he's still somehow in his house, and she was right. A misunderstanding, yes, but deliberate lying, no.

[foxfreakinmulder]

I didn't remember this the first time I watched but on my rewatch last night Eleven goes into the water tank for papa to look for "bad man" and when she finds him it sounds like he's speaking Russian.

I thought the science teacher Mr. Clarke did a good job explaining to the boys how another dimension could be created with a tear or gate.

This episode belonged to Hopper. It figures that damn wiretap is in the last place you look after tearing your house apart lol.

[QuantumMechanic]

3 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

This episode belonged to Hopper. It figures that damn wiretap is in the last place you look after tearing your house apart lol.

Well, sorta by definition it's always going to be in the last place you look. 🙂

[roamyn]

Quote

Also I do quite like Hopper too both character and looks. When we first saw him passed out on the couch I thought I was going to hate him from the start but I think after an episode or 2 he turned into my favourite character.

Hubby and I just started watching this show, and I said this very thing tonight.