S01.E04: Cripples, Bastards and Broken Things (Re-watch spoilers)

[Anothermi]

WARNING!!! This thread was created for an Unsullied RE-WATCH after the end of Season 6 and will contain SPOILERS.

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Episode Synopsis: (re-watch version)

Detective Stark finds bastards... and a book. Viserys gets schooled. Bromance alert at the Wall! Tyrion creates a design. Cat takes charge.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Anothermi
uniformity

[Llywela]

Oh, so much poignancy to every scene, looking back with hindsight, knowing what's to come. Like Jaime and Jory reminiscing about past battles together, a shared experience, mutual respect - but they aren't friends and they aren't allies, and we all know what's to come there. Their assessment of Theon intrigued me, because both have been proved right, in different ways. Jaime's cynicism was bang on - we can already see in Theon all the repressed resentment, eagerness to please and identity crisis that will lead him down the road of betrayal and attempted conquest...but Jory saw good in him, and that has ultimately also been proved. There is good in Theon (every character in the show has the seeds of both good and evil in them), but once he'd started down the slippery slope it took a hell of a lot of suffering for him to find it again.

Robb and Jon have a lot in common, gauche young men with a hell of a lot to learn, but where Tyrion saw promise in Jon the bastard, offered advice and formed a tentative friendship, with proud lordling Robb he makes no such effort, merely trades words of dislike. Robb has all the privilege, and Tyrion dislikes prideful privilege - Robb isn't one of those cripples, bastards and broken things Tyrion always feels for. Jon is the more compassionate of the two, better able to empathise with the suffering of others because he has known hardship himself, whereas Robb has been raised to know himself the heir, with all the trappings of that status. Jon, who wouldn't sleep with a whore for fear of siring another bastard who'd have to grow up the way he did - yeah, hindsight does make it pretty clear which of the two is the endgame character.

So at the Wall Jon has already gathered Gren, Pip and Sam around him in his little gang of friends - and alas poor Gren and Pip. I'm wondering now at what point Edd joins the little band of brothers.

Sansa, we see here, already fears that her betrothal to Joffrey is going to bring her nothing but misery, but she has no means of escape or appeal, no confidant and no one to (seriously) advise. She is trapped - and we already know that it will take her until season 6 to finally achieve freedom, by which time the damage has been done and she can no longer allow herself to trust anyone. Meanwhile Littlefinger's obsession with her as a substitute for Cat begins here.

Over in Dothraki land, the power balance has well and truly shifted between Dany and Viserys, and we get a lot of backstory about dragons and the original conquest of Westeros.

Also in this episode, the Ponderous Tome of Fate makes its first appearance!

Edited July 14, 2016 by Llywela

[Pallas]

A beautiful post, Llywela. The unraveling is underway at each corner of the story. "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..."  It's The Second Coming by Yeats, and we know who's slouching toward Bethlehem.

The rot in King's Landing is most evident: the dissipated King, the bankrupt treasury overseen by a pimp, the inner circle of schemers and their spies, the sullied soldiery and their gory festivals. In the capital and the rich holdings nearby, poverty, violence and injustice fill the prisons and among the aristocracy, fathers itch to hunt their sons: all feeding the last line of defense at the Wall. 

At the Wall, the mission is forgotten; the enemy is nature and the other men, on the other side, who have it worse. (The first mention of Mance Rayder, who was already a leader in the last winter, ten years earlier!) Thorne is a capable man who may once have been a excellent drill sergeant, but is now so embittered by the pointless life, the loss of prestige and morale, that he trains by beating the men into fodder, and hates quality and comradery among them even more than its lack. But Jon has found a place where a Snow can be a Stark, even against the grain of his surroundings.

As Dany has found a place where an outcast can become a Khaleesi, and a Khaleesi, a Queen. She's seen her brother among other men, abusing the people he would lead, and understood on her own that he's no more a dragon than the last stunted hatchlings at King's Landing. She realizes, as does Jorah, that Drogo is content with the deal as it stands and won't be startling the horses with a sea-voyage. This should be all that Robert needs to hear and Jorah's job should be done, his pardon getting inked and his bags packed for home.   

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Jaime and Jory reminiscing about past battles together, a shared experience, mutual respect - but they aren't friends and they aren't allies, and we all know what's to come there.

Yes. And from what we hear at King's Landing, the two wars are now the good times, and that's never good.  

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Their assessment of Theon intrigued me, because both have been proved right, in different ways. Jaime's cynicism was bang on - we can already see in Theon all the repressed resentment, eagerness to please and identity crisis that will lead him down the road of betrayal and attempted conquest...but Jory saw good in him, and that has ultimately also been proved.

Love that. And, "Seeing a Greyjoy at Winterfell..like seeing a shark on a mountaintop." Jaime has to entertain himself somehow while standing eavesdropper-on-command outside Robert's office. May as well craft some metaphors. 

6 hours ago, Llywela said:

Robb and Jon have a lot in common, gauche young men with a hell of a lot to learn, but where Tyrion saw promise in Jon the bastard, offered advice and formed a tentative friendship, with proud lordling Robb he makes no such effort, merely trades words of dislike. Robb has all the privilege, and Tyrion dislikes prideful privilege - Robb isn't one of those cripples, bastards and broken things Tyrion always feels for.

And now it's clear to see Richard Madden played it that way from the start, as gingerella also pointed out. To me it settles my question about why Madden wasn't cast as Jon. At the same age as Harington, he was already sharply etched -- he'd found the face he'll wear for most of his life (or in Robb's case...), and the manner to go with it. You could see Madden's Robb as Young Brandon the Burnt alongside Young Ned, then set him next to Gendry, and see what Young Ned thought he saw in Young Robert.

Even Winterfell is off its game. In Robb's defense, though, part of his stiff treatment of Tyrion was that he believed "the Lannisters" had now twice tried to kill his little brother and nearly killed his mother, prompting her departure and his first duties as Lord. What Tyrion believed was a rather formal welcoming party is actually a deposition, with Robb and Luwin both directing pointed questions and Bran brought in to see if the sight of Tyrion awakens his memory. Rejecting Robb's stately acknowledgment of his gift -- offered in the spirit of a summit meeting photo-op -- Tyrion stalk outs; in a bit of a temper, he then also shit-stirs with Theon, going beyond painful but fruitful goading on his favorite theme of, "Know who you are." It's what would happen, and for that reason, it's good to see the Lannister in Tyrion, the unsheathing of his claws.

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

Sansa, we see here, already fears that her betrothal to Joffrey is going to bring her nothing but misery, but she has no means of escape or appeal, no confidant and no one to (seriously) advise.

She does and she doesn't, poor thing: I think she still thinks it might still be all right if only she can make him like her again. She blames everyone but Joffrey for his going off her, and the pain of losing Lady -- which she won't talk about because part of her knows that if she did, she'd see Joffrey as he is. Someone who tried repeatedly to slice her sister in half because she struck him with a stick, when he was scarring a child for fun.

It's not only that propriety, in the voice of the Septa, assures her that the thing is settled ("Your face is on the tea-towels, Duch").  Another part of her knows that Ned was appalled for her and is suffering now ("Good!"), but as you suggest: how can she make a confidant of someone she will never speak to again? So the only avenue Sansa has left is up the aisle, closing her eyes and believing as hard as she can.

And in three of the four settings, we get to meet at least one new character who will survive into the sixth season: at Winterfell, Hodor (who we'd earlier glimpsed lined up with the Starks to greet King Robert and family); at the Wall, Sam; in King's Landing, the Mountain, complete with backstory, courtesy of Petyr "Is-this-seat-taken?" Baelish, made welcome by the Septa. This week was not the Septa's finest hour. We know that's still to come.  

[Llywela]

27 minutes ago, Pallas said:

And in three of the four settings, we get to meet at least one new character who will survive into the sixth season: at Winterfell, Hodor (who we'd earlier glimpsed lined up with the Starks to greet King Robert and family); at the Wall, Sam; in King's Landing, the Mountain, complete with backstory, courtesy of Petyr "Is-this-seat-taken?" Baelish, made welcome by the Septa. This week was not the Septa's finest hour. We know that's still to come.  

Plus Bronn making his first appearance, his personality already shining through - laid-back and opportunistic, the only man in the room willing to give up his room to Tyrion in exchange for fair coin. He's one of the few characters to come through all six seasons relatively unscathed. Nothing much touches Bronn.

I take your point about Robb's suspicions about Tyrion, which I did mean to mention. He does have a valid reason for being stiff and unwelcoming, in the circumstances. But the personality difference between him and Jon is glaring even allowing for that.

And, of course, the biggest thing (in retrospect) to happen in this episode is Cat's arrest of Tyrion, the spark that will ignite a new war.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Llywela

[Anothermi]

Great and beautifully crafted posts Llywela and Pallas. And thanks for the link to the poem quoted from. I recognized the quote, but had never read the full poem, nor realized it was written in the aftermath of WW 1. The education of the Unsullied continues <ravens and horses and poems, Oh My!>

I remember, back during our post-season one re-watch on TWoP, that I'd found this episode the least interesting to that point. Mostly because it contained a LOT of exposition and only slight movements in plot. Now I know TPTB have been working on the long game from the start. More importantly, we've seen enough story and history to this point to illuminate much of what was going on, or being said in this episode.

17 hours ago, Llywela said:

Like Jaime and Jory reminiscing about past battles together, a shared experience, mutual respect - but they aren't friends and they aren't allies, and we all know what's to come there.

Yes, and now we know more about the Greyjoys and that the battle Jaime and Jory spoke of was the siege of Pyke near the end of the Greyjoy Rebellion - 9 years earlier. We learned even more from the Tyrion/Theon scene:

- The Greyjoys 1st attacked Lannisport (duh! Lannister Keep is a western port - great for trading! I think I'd pictured it more inland nearer to the gold mines). They burned the Lannister fleet.

- Tyrion was there to see (and hear) it. Having met the Greyjoy men, I concur with Tryion's characterization of ... stupid.

 - It's likely Tywin was there too, as he didn't have a position at King's Landing after Robert became King.

- I got the sense that was where it started and why Robert called in his loyalists to help quell the rebellion. (Probably only incidental that the Lannisters were "family" to him now.)

And back with Jaime and Jory. Both of them spoke of the unforgettable sight of Thoros of Mir and his flaming sword charging over the bridge at the siege of Pyke. I remember we had great fun with that image because of Shimpy's infamous mishearing of "pitch" as "pig shit". Anything on fire after that had to have been covered in pig shit.

What I didn't remember from that scene was the name Thoros of Mir. We didn't hear it again until S02 when the Bothers without Banners appeared. Realizing that he was fighting with the Crown (apparently) 9 years ago and with a flaming sword (which Melissandre referenced the import of in Stannis' opening scene in S02. She presented him ceremonially pulling one from the fire and decreed it meant he was the ONE.) Given that the flaming sword was a common denominator, I'd hazard that Thoros was with the Lord of Light even back during the Greyjoy rebellion, but having a flaming sword did not single him out as The ONE, just as a great story to tell. The phrase: "Different Priest/Priestess, different time" springs to mind.

Which brings me to the Bw/oB. We know that Jaime cut off the head of one and considered them outlaws. We seen some men who called themselves Bw/oB yet killed an entire, peaceful settlement for food and kicks. We also know Thoros and Berrick Dondarrion joined the Bw/oB and are trying to be more like Robin Hood than bandits. It's been difficult understanding them as we've seen them from a variety of POV almost none of which are their own. There's a whole unknown backstory there too. Fingers crossed that we learn more when Mel & Thor meet up again. (Because they MUST!)

17 hours ago, Llywela said:

I'm wondering now at what point Edd joins the little band of brothers.

I first noticed him fully as the one who got all the funny lines when they arrived at the Fist of the First Men in S02. He was probably shown before that though.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Anothermi

[Pallas]

21 hours ago, Llywela said:

Plus Bronn making his first appearance, his personality already shining through - laid-back and opportunistic, the only man in the room willing to give up his room to Tyrion in exchange for fair coin. He's one of the few characters to come through all six seasons relatively unscathed. Nothing much touches Bronn.

 

Yes Bronn, the most notable of the newbies, whose appearance made me wonder if there were others in the other quadrants...then I forgot to note him. Your description does him justice, which is not a subject that otherwise interests him. Bronn, one of the few outsiders or Common Man men who I don't suspect is, at least in part, the author's avatar. More like his imaginary friend. 

21 hours ago, Llywela said:

But the personality difference between him and Jon is glaring even allowing for that.

Absolutely, and as you said, Robb's status as firstborn lordling -- which he usually wears a lot more lightly, but doesn't doff -- would have primed Tyrion's Irony Pump, in any event. Add to that Robb's "This welcoming committee is now in session. You may approach the bench" of a greeting, and what Tyrion recognized as his lofty thanks, from the ponderous tome of courtly responses. (Chapter MCXXVIII: Half-Men Under a Cloud, Bearing Gifts.)

21 hours ago, Llywela said:

And, of course, the biggest thing (in retrospect) to happen in this episode is Cat's arrest of Tyrion, the spark that will ignite a new war.

I love how it mirrors Lady Lyanna Mormont's calling out of the Stark bannermen. Also: Ned's saying to Gendry, "There's nothing to forgive," as Jon will say to Lord Manderley. Gendry at the forge, with his hammer!  Oh, and Arya with Ned, on the staircase. Their ease with each other, as if of all his children, Arya had always been the "We won't tell your mother" one. She reminds him of Lyanna, of course, and it's Arya and not Jon on whom he could freely bestow his love for his lost sister.

"That's not me."  Never forget what you are.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Pallas

[Anothermi]

So, despite this episode being full of exposition, and I spent a lot of time taking note of those during the first re-watch back on TWoP, there were still a few things that I missed and/or forgot.

Last re-watch episode Gingerella raised the question of where the Targaryens first came from, and voila! the bath tub scene answered it. Pallas' memory is still in good working order. The Targs came from Valyria!

Other bath scene stuff that went over my head at the time:

- Doreah showed that brothels can be places of learning too. 1) She'd seen a man from Ashai with a dagger made of real Dragon Glass. 1st mention of Dragon Glass and I forgot about it. S02 it came up again and I thought THAT was the 1st time we'd heard of it. And all these mentions of Ashai! I want Bran to see something important that happened there. It's always mentioned in the same breath as something mysterious and/or remote (Shadowlands/Ghost Grass/Dragon Glass). I've gotten an impression that it's a bit like Deadwood - a wild, untamed outpost with no rules but lots of interesting characters!; 2) She'd seen a faceless man, who apparently changed his face in front of her like Jaqen did to Arya; and 3) She met a pirate who wore his weight in gold and had a ship with coloured silk sails. This time I immediately thought of Salador Saan - Davos' pirate friend. Can't remember if we ever saw his ship though. Perhaps in S02 when Davos was gathering allies for Stannis' attack on Kings Landing via Blackwater Bay? They met on the beach IIRC.

- I'd also forgotten that the Dragon heads used to decorate the Throne Room - as recently as when Viserys lived there, so 23 - 25 years ago? Viserys said he was 4 when his father would make him recite their names as they walked toward the Iron Throne (and gave him a sweet IF he got them all right! No molly coddling from the Mad King.) Add a few years before the Rebellion started - we don't really know how old Viserys was when they fled King's Landing, just that Dany wasn't yet born - so I'm guessing 2 to 4 years before the Rebellion. Next, it's been 17 years since the Rebellion (via Cat reminding Ned what happened 17 years ago when he left for King's landing). This kind of ties in with my Decor notation. The vines and such were definitely Not the Targs. They had the Dragon Skulls. Viserys thought Robert would have had them ground up, but we saw at least one big one  stored in one of the many underground tunnels at Kings Landing. <It's a wonder that the entire city hasn't been washed away due to erosion caused by high tides flooding those tunnels!>

The last item that I'd forgotten about was Syrio telling Arya "Every hurt is a lesson". Now that we've seen Arya's No One training I think Jaqen believed the same, except he taught her: "Every lesson hurts." ;-) <Still, it's one more clue that Jaqen-is-Syrio - for me anyway.>

Edited July 15, 2016 by Anothermi

[gingerella]

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 10:31 PM, Llywela said:

Oh, so much poignancy to every scene, looking back with hindsight, knowing what's to come.

No kidding! This is a very melancholy exercise with A Viewer re watching A Show from its inception until when last we saw our characters, at least the ones that are still alive. Seven hells indeed!  So many wonderful comments already in just a few posts, so I wont rehash, just add to what is above...

On ‎7‎/‎13‎/‎2016 at 10:31 PM, Llywela said:

Also in this episode, the Ponderous Tome of Fate makes its first appearance!

Yessss! It was so mindboggling to see how lacking in finesse and discretion Ned was, wasn't it? Particularly after he gleaned what he could about Gendry being Robert's bastard, and then he writes it down on parchment and sends Jory to deliver it?!  WTH? And then Jory asks if Jamie will pass the note to the King?! Again, WTF?!?  How incredibly stupid must these characters BE?!?  With information that is that volatile and sensitive, wouldn't you ask to see the King privately and discuss it with him 1:1, in closed chambers?  Or ask for a private meeting in the note, but not actually, yanno, write down what you discovered?! I don't think we will see that it wasn't just a request for a meeting but still, one must assume that Ned wrote what he'd found out and put it into the letter, that's what A Show was implying, at least to this Viewer. And that folks, was a smack yourself in the forehead with the palm of your hand moment, if ever there was one!

On ‎7‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 6:49 AM, Pallas said:

The unraveling is underway at each corner of the story. "Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold..."  

Yes, I remember starting to watch A Show feeling full of hope, and with this episode I realized that this was not your typical show, this was A Show (like Marg wanted to be The Queen, not A Queen!), and things started feeling like the floor was falling out, like sand spilling through a hole that was getting bigger and bigger by the minute. It was an odd sensation, feeling so uncomfortable watching this the first time around, not knowing the horror of what was to come for many, but feeling that something was not right in A Story...

I was struck by the Sansa/Littlefinger scene, where we first get this creepy vibe from him, the way he slithers next to Sansa, telling her a horrible story then scaring this shit out of her but telling her she ought not to tell anyone the story for fear of reprisal. Sansa's first of many emotional terrorizing moments to come. Interesting that LF was the first to terrorize her, he sort of trained her for his eventual hand off to the King of Terror, Ramsey the Bastard (I refuse to give him a surname because he was such a disgusting piece of shite).

Something else I noticed, was how back then folks referred to LF more as Petyr Baelish, and to Tyrion more as The Imp, whereas six seasons in, people mainly refer to The Imp as Tyrion, and Petyr Baelish as LF.  One moved from a proper name to his derogatory nickname, while the other moved from his derogatory nickname and one used no doubt to try to humiliate him, to his proper given name.  Interesting to me...Does this point to Tyrion somehow being part of something larger, something his father would never have allowed but without Tywin around to demean him, Tyrion is rising up to grab the power of the Lannister name, perhaps this time for the betterment of mankind, rather than to pillage for self fulfillment as Tywin seemed want to do?

As much as I loathed Alistar Thorne's character the first time around, I can see now how he would have been sick and tired of being sent low functioning "recruits" that were basically being sent to The Wall rather than prison down south. He knows what Winter really entails and he looks around and sees a ragtag band of losers that will never be able to defend The Wall, let alone survive a day or two north of The Wall.  So he's angry and panicked because what can he do? He is getting older and probably wants to know that he has capable men who can step in when needed but he's got anything but right now.

On ‎7‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 2:47 PM, Anothermi said:

The last item that I'd forgotten about was Syrio telling Arya "Every hurt is a lesson". Now that we've seen Arya's No One training I think Jaqen believed the same, except he taught her: "Every lesson hurts." ;-) <Still, it's one more clue that Jaqen-is-Syrio - for me anyway.>

I don't remember this spitball but I love it!  I sort of feel though, that Syrio had a very different personality than Jaquen did, but I would love for this to be true!