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Harvey's statement is something else. That whole paragraph about charity work screams "I have no real defence so let me distract you with shiny baubles." 

Nothing in here is at all a surprise, but having it all laid out in one article like this is pretty powerful. 

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Weinstein is suing the Times. The article also mentions that The New Yorker magazine will also be running an article about him.

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Charles Harder says that proceeds from the case will be donated to women's organizations.

Good luck with that should you win. Talk about tainted money.

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I'd be shocked if he actually went through with a lawsuit. It's probably just the usual empty threat we see from powerful people whenever something negative gets printed on them, combined with an attempt to intimidate smaller outlets that don't have the legal resources of the New York Times into not digging into this story themselves.

Anyways, knowing how these things usually go, I'm guessing this is just the tip of the iceberg, and I can only imagine how much worse it's going to get from here.

Also, the most sadly predictable part of this whole thing? The fact that people immediately jumped into speculation about which actresses may have slept with him for a career boost (shockingly, this speculation usually involves actresses they don't like or think are overrated). Like, of course people's first response to story about a disgusting old man using his position of power and influence to take advantage of young women is to use it as an excuse to tear down successful women.

6 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

Not to be flip, but is anyone truly shocked? The guy screams creepy perv. 

And I hope no one thinks he's the only one in the industry.

I've seen this type of comment all over the place today and my response would be that there's a big difference between rumour and innuendo and having this kind of detailed, substantiated reporting published in the New York Times. It's important to have these things dragged out into the spotlight because it means people can't just ignore or dismiss them or look the other way anymore. After all, all these years of rumours didn't have any effect, but this story has already led to him taking a leave of absence from his company, while the board is apparently meeting to decide whether or not to oust him entirely.

And hopefully as more of these creeps (from Roger Ailes to Bill O'Reilly to Harry Knowles to Harvey Weinstein) get publicly exposed and actually held accountable for their actions it might send a message to similarly inclined men that it's not the 50s anymore and you can't just do this shit and avoid any consequences. Or send a message to the women on the receiving end that coming forward might not be as futile as they think, and that these men are not untouchable.

Edited by AshleyN
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On 10/5/2017 at 3:00 PM, AimingforYoko said:

Not to be flip, but is anyone truly shocked? The guy screams creepy perv. 

And I hope no one thinks he's the only one in the industry.

I didn't know about Ashley Judd. Did know about Rose McGowan. Gretchen Mol, Blake Lively, and others were rumored to have been coerced into sleeping with him for parts.

http://defamer.gawker.com/tell-us-what-you-know-about-harvey-weinsteins-open-sec-1695071092

http://www.pajiba.com/think_pieces/harveys-girls-the-wouldbe-ingenues-where-are-they-now-and-what-happened-then.php

This has been an open secret/disgrace for years.

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Ashley Judd spoke about this story in an interview in 2015, but at the time she didn't reveal the producer's identity. Many guessed Weinstein at the time, though. 

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The creator of Honest Trailers is also being accused of sexual harassment.  Interestingly, some women went to HR of the larger corporation a few months ago but it wasn't until a woman went public on Twitter after this Weinstein stuff came out that the parent company took action and suspended him.  (More specifics of their Twitter post at the link.)

One of the good things, however, is that once this went public on Twitter, other people who work at Screen Junkies (Honest Trailers) have said they won't return to work until it's dealt with and they believe the accusers.

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Weinstein successfully pressured the NY Times to bury a sexual misconduct story back in 2004. Sharon Waxman was investigating the person running Miramax Italy at the time, Fabrizio Lombardo, on whether he had any movie distribution experience or if he was just on the payroll to hire escorts for the boss. She'd also located a woman in London who'd received a settelment "after an unwanted sexual encounter with Weinstein". Harvey got wind, and, well...
 

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After intense pressure from Weinstein, which included having Matt Damon and Russell Crowe call me directly to vouch for Lombardo and unknown discussions well above my head at the Times, the story was gutted.

I was told at the time that Weinstein had visited the newsroom in person to make his displeasure known. I knew he was a major advertiser in the Times, and that he was a powerful person overall.

But I had the facts, and this was the Times. Right?

Wrong. The story was stripped of any reference to sexual favors or coercion and buried on the inside of the Culture section, an obscure story about Miramax firing an Italian executive. Who cared?

The Times’ then-culture editor Jon Landman, now an editor-at-large for Bloomberg, thought the story was unimportant, asking me why it mattered.

“He’s not a publicly elected official,” he told me.  I explained, to no avail, that a public company would certainly have a problem with a procurer on the payroll for hundreds of thousands of dollars. At the time, Disney told me they had no idea Lombardo existed.

A spokeswoman for the Times had no comment on Sunday.

Matt Damon, huh? Can't say I am totally surprised at this point. As for Crowe, well, violent bullies of a feather flock together.

It seems he not only assaulted and harassed women behind the scenes but also publicly got aggressive with men, too, throwing Nathan Lane against a wall at a party, and this run-in writer Rebecca Traister recounts from 2000:

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After Weinstein failed to respond to my calls for comment, I was sent, on Election Eve 2000, to cover a book party he was hosting, along with my colleague Andrew Goldman. Weinstein didn’t like my question about O, there was an altercation; though the recording has alas been lost to time, I recall that he called me a cunt and declared that he was glad he was the “fucking sheriff of this fucking lawless piece-of-shit town.” When my colleague Andrew (who was also then my boyfriend) intervened, first calming him down and then trying to extract an apology, Weinstein went nuclear, pushing Andrew down a set of steps inside the Tribeca Grand — knocking him over with such force that his tape recorder hit a woman, who suffered long-term injury — and dragging Andrew, in a headlock, onto Sixth Avenue.

 

Variety opinion piece — Men Must Step Up to Change the Hollywood Culture That Enabled Harvey Weinstein:

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Think about the women you work with, the women you talk to in meetings or on set. Have you seen someone put their hands where they shouldn’t? Have you seen a woman who is clearly uncomfortable being loomed over or intimidated by a man who will not let up? Have you said nothing when a man talked about the bitch who wouldn’t go out with him? Are you silent when someone talks about a woman’s body parts as if they weren’t attached to a human being?

Have you tolerated situations in which women are talked down to, shouted down, patronized or relentlessly hit on? Have you done nothing when women who set clear boundaries and call out unacceptable behavior are accused of being unable to take a joke and ostracized? In those situations, do you say nothing?

Have you heard about someone who “has a reputation” for behaving inappropriately and just shrugged your shoulders? When women talk about the exhausting and demeaning verbal and physical incursions they endure, do you believe them? Do you lecture them on what they should do differently? Or do you listen, show compassion, and call out the men who do these kinds of things?

Do you see men repeatedly refusing to hire or promote women in various professional capacities, and say nothing? Are you silent when a storyteller proposes rape or violent assault as the main method of character growth for a fictional female, or the death or rape of a woman as a key motivator for a male character?

Do you know men who think they are not part of the problem who are definitely part of the problem?

Do you let it go?

Edited by Dejana
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4 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Stories like this make me madder because many people had their own experiences with Weinstein being an asshole, but never said anything about it.

http://pagesix.com/2017/10/08/nathan-lane-weinstein-threw-me-against-a-wall-at-clintons-birthday-party/?_ga=2.19682616.1252417561.1507503345-1406590186.1483203178

People did speak--to each other.  But it sounds like Weinstein had enough power, money and friends to bury stories (read the links to Waxman's blog post and Traister's story about what he did to her boyfriend in front of photographers. ) And for those who spoke up or threatened to speak up, he had the power to ruin or bury their careers.  Even while admitting he did some of the things he was accused of, he was still threatening to sue the paper doing the reporting. 

I feel for their situation.  Women often don't come forward because they fear they're alone and won't be believed.  And often they're not.  Heck, even when there are 50 women (*cough* Cosby *cough*) there are people believing it's a big conspiracy.  He could have likely ruined their careers.  They're stronger as an entity but there's little way to organize if you don't know who the other victims are.  Even if it's true, a woman speaking out can be seen as a troublemaker.  People who know of the assault have to walk a thin line if they're not the victims. 

12 minutes ago, raezen said:

Wow, remember when pay disparity was suppose to be the scandal in Hollywood?  

It still is.  It's all stems from part of the same system. 

I learned that Harry Knowles of Ain't It Cool News is also accused of multiple sexual assaults. 3 reveals in a week.

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In other news about the above scandal, this is going to make a lot of people look really bad. I know I might never look at Matt Damon the same again.  I've always side eyed Russell Crowe. 

https://www.thewrap.com/media-enablers-harvey-weinstein-new-york-times/

Edited; looks like damage control is in progress.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2017/oct/08/democrats-cut-ties-with-harvey-weinstein-as-fresh-allegations-emerge

Edited by raezen · Reason: Additional information
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10 hours ago, Dejana said:

After Weinstein failed to respond to my calls for comment, I was sent, on Election Eve 2000, to cover a book party he was hosting, along with my colleague Andrew Goldman. Weinstein didn’t like my question about O, there was an altercation; though the recording has alas been lost to time, I recall that he called me a cunt and declared that he was glad he was the “fucking sheriff of this fucking lawless piece-of-shit town.” When my colleague Andrew (who was also then my boyfriend) intervened, first calming him down and then trying to extract an apology, Weinstein went nuclear, pushing Andrew down a set of steps inside the Tribeca Grand — knocking him over with such force that his tape recorder hit a woman, who suffered long-term injury — and dragging Andrew, in a headlock, onto Sixth Avenue.

Holy shit! I spent a lot of time at the Tribeca and Soho Grands on business travel back then and heard a rumor through the staff that someone was pushed down the stairs. I had no idea what the details were though.

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Meryl's statement:

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The disgraceful news about Harvey Weinstein has appalled those of us whose work he championed, and those whose good and worthy causes he supported. The intrepid women who raised their voices to expose this abuse are our heroes.

One thing can be clarified. Not everybody knew. Harvey supported the work fiercely, was exasperating but respectful with me in our working relationship, and with many others with whom he worked professionally. I didn’t know about these other offenses: I did not know about his financial settlements with actresses and colleagues; I did not know about his having meetings in his hotel room, his bathroom, or other inappropriate, coercive acts. And If everybody knew, I don’t believe that all the investigative reporters in the entertainment and the hard news media would have neglected for decades to write about it.

The behavior is inexcusable, but the abuse of power familiar. Each brave voice that is raised, heard and credited by our watchdog media will ultimately change the game.

Also, I had heard this story about Haley Atwell and Emma Thompson before, but I didn't know that Harvey was the producer in question:

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"You look like a fat pig on screen,” said Weinstein, who had just come from watching the dailies. “Stop eating so much."

When Atwell told her Oscar-winning co-star Emma Thompson that the Miramax head ordered her to go on a diet, Thompson flipped. She took Weinstein aside and threatened to quit if he forced Atwell or any other woman on set to go on a diet.

In related news, I love Emma Thompson.

Edited by AshleyN
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With so many accounts of what sounds like an endemic problem with sexual harassment and abuse in Hollywood, I have to wonder where SAG has been in protecting its workers. Will they step up with something like a code of conduct that will at least be a gesture to show that they care? And the other unions of the industry, too--it's not only the onscreen stars facing such monstrous treatment..

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Okay, I'm sorry, but I gotta give Meryl some side-eye on that statement. Rumors about Weinstein have been out there for awhile. I was listening to an NPR with Kim Masters on Saturday I believe where they were stating that this has been a very well-known secret for decades. So how exactly did Meryl miss the memo for so long?

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3 hours ago, callie lee 29 said:

Okay, I'm sorry, but I gotta give Meryl some side-eye on that statement. Rumors about Weinstein have been out there for awhile. I was listening to an NPR with Kim Masters on Saturday I believe where they were stating that this has been a very well-known secret for decades. So how exactly did Meryl miss the memo for so long?

Here is a good thread examining why Meryl Streep might not have been told any of the rumors.  Glenn Close put out a great statement admitting she had heard them.

I have no doubt that there will be people who will express shock that had actually heard the rumors.  But I also think there will be people who will not have been exposed to them.  Maybe they knew he was a jerk but never heard of these specific actions.  When it's said "everyone knew" what that really means is that rumors were pretty pervasive but that doesn't mean that literally everyone knew.  In fact, sometimes the closer you are to someone, the less likely you are to hear the rumors out of fear that they won't believe the victim/report and might actually report the rumor to this powerful man who has the power to hurt careers.

Maybe she knew. Maybe she didn't.  And while I think it's worth discussing the environment of silence and cover up that lets this thing grow, the fact that there has been a call for stars like Meryl (women stars mostly which is a whole other kettle of icky fish) to respond only to turn around and critique their statements when they do (not you specifically--this has been happening a lot), makes me want to give a side eye as well.

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5 hours ago, AshleyN said:

"You look like a fat pig on screen,” said Weinstein, who had just come from watching the dailies. “Stop eating so much."

When Atwell told her Oscar-winning co-star Emma Thompson that the Miramax head ordered her to go on a diet, Thompson flipped. She took Weinstein aside and threatened to quit if he forced Atwell or any other woman on set to go on a diet.

Damn, I see how Weinstein is going to get his job back: He's going to invoke the ADA because apparently he's blind.

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35 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

Here is a good thread examining why Meryl Streep might have been told any of the rumors.  Glenn Close put out a great statement admitting she had heard them.

I have no doubt that there will be people who will express shock that had actually heard the rumors.  But I also think there will be people who will not have been exposed to them.  Maybe they knew he was a jerk but never heard of these specific actions.  When it's said "everyone knew" what that really means is that rumors were pretty pervasive but that doesn't mean that literally everyone knew.  In fact, sometimes the closer you are to someone, the less likely you are to hear the rumors out of fear that they won't believe the victim/report and might actually report the rumor to this powerful man who has the power to hurt careers.

Maybe she knew. Maybe she didn't.  And while I think it's worth discussing the environment of silence and cover up that lets this thing grow, the fact that there has been a call for stars like Meryl (women stars mostly which is a whole other kettle of icky fish) to respond and only to turn around and critique their statements when they do (not you specifically--this has been happening a lot), makes me want to give a side eye as well.

One thing that always occurs to me too when it comes to these sorts of things is that as celebrities, particularly the more famous ones, they've probably heard plenty of rumours and stories about themselves that they know are not true, so I always wonder if it creates a kind of ingrained skepticism? It's not an excuse, and clearly there are major systemic issues concerning sexism and harassment and abuse of power, and the culture of silence that surrounds it, that Hollywood needs to do some real soul-searching about, but I wonder if that's a factor, at least for people who haven't witnessed his behaviour personally (and like that great Twitter thread suggests, someone like Weinstein is likely going to behave much differently around a Meryl Streep or a Judi Dench then he will around someone lower on the totem pole)? Again, that's why it's so important to have people, either victims or witnesses, willing to speak publicly, on the record about their experiences, and/or journalists who can do the digging to separate rumours from fact and put together specifics, so that hopefully, eventually, these people can be exposed for what they truly are.

Edited by AshleyN
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I think Meryl and lots of others knew. I haven't followed Hollywood news as closely as I did 10-15 years ago but I remember reading about it online. I think they're denying knowing because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. What did coming forward do for Amber Heard? Woody Allen is still a respected director who gets to make movies and he's been accused of raping children. Sean Bean's a domestic abuser and so is Michael Fassbender, Sean Penn is violent, Casey Affleck is a sexual harasser, Charlie Sheen, and on and on the list goes. Rapists are rarely prosecuted, much less anything else. A woman who comes forward is more likely to suffer damage to her career as well as be targeted for harassment. That's why everyone's lining up Hollywood actresses and making them swear to God they didn't know but no one's doing this to the men. The male-majority studio heads, producers, and directors - who all have far more power socially and within the industry - aren't being held accountable for this.

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Everyone knew..i will be indulgent : almost everyone..Weinstein is one among many many powerful hollywood suits who do that..he just got caught and he is/was one of the most powerful producer on Hollywood for decades now..With him you are almost sure to get the statuette..many actors, producers, directors ect trade their silence for fame, fortune and prestigious rewards..that's the sad and cynical truth.

He is the tip of the iceberg..

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George Clooney Speaks Out on Harvey Weinstein: ‘It’s Disturbing on a Whole Lot of Levels’. It's a whole interview with The Daily Beast and not just a statement, much more at the link:

 

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How did you react to the Harvey Weinstein news?

I’ve heard rumors, and the rumors in general started back in the ’90s, and they were that certain actresses had slept with Harvey to get a role. It seemed like a way to smear the actresses and demean them by saying that they didn’t get the jobs based on their talent, so I took those rumors with a grain of salt. But the other part of this, the part we’re hearing now about eight women being paid off, I didn’t hear anything about that and I don’t know anyone that did. That’s a whole other level and there’s no way you can reconcile that. There’s nothing to say except that it’s indefensible.

 

 

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A good bunch of people that I know would say, “Yeah, Harvey’s a dog” or “Harvey’s chasing girls,” but again, this is a very different kind of thing. This is harassment on a very high level. And there’s an argument that everyone is complicit in it. I suppose the argument would be that it’s not just about Hollywood, but about all of us—that every time you see someone using their power and influence to take advantage of someone without power and influence and you don’t speak up, you’re complicit. And there’s no question about that.


 

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People did know that Harvey was a terrible bully, though. It was interesting how Hollywood approached it, because he was almost treated like a caricature—the angry, bellowing studio mogul. I remember there was a character on Entourage based on him. It was treated almost like a joke.

Think about it this way, too: I had knock-down, drag-out fights with him over the years, but he was also making films that other studios weren’t willing to make, and he was making films that everybody loved, so you just put up with certain bad behavior because you felt like, well, if he yells and screams but he gets Pulp Fiction made, who cares if he yells and screams? But it’s a very different conversation when you say, it’s not that he yells and screams but that he’s cornering a young, scared lady in a restaurant and telling her to stand there and be quiet while he jerks off. That’s a very different kind of behavior, and had that been a public thing, I think there would have been some different results. I hope there would be.

 

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18 hours ago, slf said:

I think Meryl and lots of others knew. I haven't followed Hollywood news as closely as I did 10-15 years ago but I remember reading about it online. I think they're denying knowing because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. What did coming forward do for Amber Heard? Woody Allen is still a respected director who gets to make movies and he's been accused of raping children. Sean Bean's a domestic abuser and so is Michael Fassbender, Sean Penn is violent, Casey Affleck is a sexual harasser, Charlie Sheen, and on and on the list goes. Rapists are rarely prosecuted, much less anything else. A woman who comes forward is more likely to suffer damage to her career as well as be targeted for harassment. That's why everyone's lining up Hollywood actresses and making them swear to God they didn't know but no one's doing this to the men. The male-majority studio heads, producers, and directors - who all have far more power socially and within the industry - aren't being held accountable for this.

Goddammit!! #notallmen my ass.

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How did you react to the Harvey Weinstein news?

I’ve heard rumors, and the rumors in general started back in the ’90s, and they were that certain actresses had slept with Harvey to get a role. It seemed like a way to smear the actresses and demean them by saying that they didn’t get the jobs based on their talent, so I took those rumors with a grain of salt. But the other part of this, the part we’re hearing now about eight women being paid off, I didn’t hear anything about that and I don’t know anyone that did. That’s a whole other level and there’s no way you can reconcile that. There’s nothing to say except that it’s indefensible.

 

Others have noted from the beginning of this news cycle that the most immediate response to sexual harassment allegations against Weinstein was speculation on which actresses slept with him to bolster their careers. On the one hand, this statement from Clooney makes sense but on the other hand, why would, in Clooney's mind, that allegation reflect negatively only on the woman?

Edited by dusang
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Here's Ronan Farrow's horrifying New Yorker piece, in which three women directly accuse Weinstein of raping them. It also includes audio in which Weinstein admits to groping an Italian model and tries to manipulate her into going into his hotel room with her.

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The movie’s most significant departure from the real-life incident, Argento told me, was how the hotel-room scene ended. “In the movie I wrote,” she said, “I ran away.”

Absolutely devastating. Those poor women.

Edited by AshleyN
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On 10/10/2017 at 0:17 PM, dusang said:

Goddammit!! #notallmen my ass.

Others have noted from the beginning of this news cycle that the most immediate response to sexual harassment allegations against Weinstein was speculation on which actresses slept with him to bolster their careers. On the one hand, this statement from Clooney makes sense but on the other hand, why would, in Clooney's mind, that allegation reflect negatively only on the woman?

I guess it depends on who was sharing this gossip at the time. Did they say "So-and-so fucked for a role" or did they say "Weinstein doesn't give you a role unless you fuck him"? I've seen both statements on the Internet but guess which one I've seen used more.

I have to say I like Clooney's statement more then most. If he has any revisionist history in his retelling of the past  (and really, how could we ever tell?) he doesn't pretend he heard nothing and he does explain why they overlooked bad behavior in the past, and by that I mean his bully reputation. I wonder if a lot of men who previously laughed at Harvey's bullying are starting to realize how terrifying he must have been to a lot of women.

Edited by raezen · Reason: Turned 'does' into 'doesn't'.
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1 hour ago, raezen said:

I guess it depends on who was sharing this gossip at the time. Did they say "So-and-so fucked for a role" or did they say "Weinstein does give you a role unless you fuck him"? I've seen both statements on the Internet but guess which one I've seen used more.

You've actually perfectly illustrated my point -- even if a woman offered sex in exchange for a role, why wouldn't the man who accepted sex in exchange for a role be equally smeared by the allegation?

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3 hours ago, AshleyN said:

Here's Ronan Farrow's horrifying New Yorker piece, in which three women directly accuse Weinstein of raping them. It also includes audio in which Weinstein admits to groping an Italian model and tries to manipulate her into going into his hotel room with her.

Absolutely devastating. Those poor women.

That man should be in jail. Next to Bill Cosby.

And if the Manhattan DA hadn't been bought off with a 10k campaign contribution, he might already be there.

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18 minutes ago, dusang said:

You've actually perfectly illustrated my point -- even if a woman offered sex in exchange for a role, why wouldn't the man who accepted sex in exchange for a role be equally smeared by the allegation?

Gees,  your talking about age old double standards. How come in the movie Seven  Spacey kills a hooker and not the client in place of lust? 

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One thing that strikes me about this new round of accusations is the arrogance and how untouchable he felt he was. I mean Paltrow and Jolie and even Argento weren't exactly vulnerable nobodies just trying to get a foot in the door -- they're all "legacy" children, so to speak, with powerful connections in the in industry. The fact that he was willing to go after a woman whose godfather is Steven freakin' Spielberg is a pretty good indication of how little he was concerned about actually having to face any consequences for his actions, which is a pretty scathing indictment of not just him, but the entire culture that enabled him.

4 hours ago, dusang said:

Goddammit!! #notallmen my ass.

Others have noted from the beginning of this news cycle that the most immediate response to sexual harassment allegations against Weinstein was speculation on which actresses slept with him to bolster their careers. On the one hand, this statement from Clooney makes sense but on the other hand, why would, in Clooney's mind, that allegation reflect negatively only on the woman?

 

On a related note, it looks like Gretchen Mol decided to address that infamous blind item and the rumours that have followed her around because of it.

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For 10 years or so, I’ve been aware of rumors that I had some kind of transactional relationship with Harvey Weinstein. They seemed to start on a gossip website that made money by peddling ‘blind’ items. A few facts had been taken from my Wikipedia page, were combined with stories about a movie mogul who was known for harassing women, quotes from “reliable sources” were added and a malicious, viral rumor was born.

Over the years, it was gleefully embroidered, becoming increasingly bizarre and baroque — but the salacious, slut-shaming and misogynist message to the fable remained the same: In Hollywood, a young woman must build her career by humiliating herself and sleeping with powerful men. 

...

I had heard similar rumors about other actresses and Harvey Weinstein for years, even before I heard them about myself. I knew that it was not true in my case, so I naively assumed it was equally false in general. The consistent implication was that actresses were eager for the bargain, that we wanted fame and fortune so desperately that we would make this kind of nauseating concession. This is another kind of misogyny, and blame-shifting.

It makes the victim complicit. The facts that are known are much simpler, and there is only one person to blame — a perverse, power-drunk man who sexually assaulted women. The rapist classically claims the victim wanted it, or was asking for it. Gossip bloggers sold that same garbage, and it was heart-breaking how many people were ready to believe it.

...

The shameless behavior of this powerful man found shameless co-conspirators in people hiding behind screen handles, who then tried to push their foulness onto women who are blameless. Toxic shame transfers from the perpetrator to the victim. I hope my colleagues, those women who have been affected by this abuse, can put this poison aside. We have no reason to feel ashamed. 

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20 minutes ago, raezen said:

Gees,  your talking about age old double standards. How come in the movie Seven  Spacey kills a hooker and not the client in place of lust? 

Yes, exactly. George Clooney explains that he ignored rumours of sexual misconduct for 20 years because he didn't want to "smear .. and demean" women, which he probably thinks makes him sound good / feminist / progressive.  Like he was doing those women a favour by not listening to those rumours.  In fact, what he calls "a grain of salt" is actually the "age old double standard."

Edited by dusang
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4 hours ago, dusang said:

Goddammit!! #notallmen my ass.

Others have noted from the beginning of this news cycle that the most immediate response to sexual harassment allegations against Weinstein was speculation on which actresses slept with him to bolster their careers. On the one hand, this statement from Clooney makes sense but on the other hand, why would, in Clooney's mind, that allegation reflect negatively only on the woman?

In this scenario, the power player making the offer probably doesn't have much of a reputation to begin with? So there's nothing left to smear, as such. Especially in the case of someone like Harvey.

I see it all the time on social media and the awards or gossip forums I've visited, people cutting down actresses they don't like by implying that they only made it due to the casting couch. During the big photo hacking scandal of 2014, I saw so many comments that this or that actress must have been sending those pics to directors to get roles. It isn't like male actors are never discredited for not earning their roles the "right" way (and I've heard a few names thrown around, but I won't go on), but given that the vast majority of executives and directors are male and heterosexual, plus misogyny, it leaves young actresses far more likely to face accusations like that. 

Edited by Dejana
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4 hours ago, dusang said:

On the one hand, this statement from Clooney makes sense but on the other hand, why would, in Clooney's mind, that allegation reflect negatively only on the woman?

Because that's the spirit in which those accusations are made, generally.  It's meant to be an insult to actresses; sometimes, even, framing them as the people who initiated it. 

Actually, on that point, I would say that longstanding rumours that Weinstein traded sexual favours for opportunities is somewhat different from the revelations that he was an aggressive sexual predator.  I had definitely heard the former in respect to, say, Jennifer Lawrence, and, like Clooney, I didn't pay any mind to it.

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Let's be honest the casting couch exist and reign in Hollywood (young handsome men AND women do it in order to become 'stars') ..and yeah guys like Weinstein use it as much as they can..and in his case, HE really can because he is one of the most powerful mogul in this industry..But here it is specifically about sexual harrassment..it is another level..and it is also pretty common too..and that since Hollywood, the entertainment/cinema industry exists. Actually before this abusive environnement was worse..So if now they decide to own it and to reveal it to the public..i will say better late than never..however it highlight a rampant hypocrisy..but better late than never and maybe finally this system will really re-evaluate itself..although i stay skeptical..

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On 09/10/2017 at 5:29 PM, AshleyN said:

One thing that always occurs to me too when it comes to these sorts of things is that as celebrities, particularly the more famous ones, they've probably heard plenty of rumours and stories about themselves that they know are not true, so I always wonder if it creates a kind of ingrained skepticism? It's not an excuse, and clearly there are major systemic issues concerning sexism and harassment and abuse of power, and the culture of silence that surrounds it, that Hollywood needs to do some real soul-searching about, but I wonder if that's a factor, at least for people who haven't witnessed his behaviour personally (and like that great Twitter thread suggests, someone like Weinstein is likely going to behave much differently around a Meryl Streep or a Judi Dench then he will around someone lower on the totem pole)? Again, that's why it's so important to have people, either victims or witnesses, willing to speak publicly, on the record about their experiences, and/or journalists who can do the digging to separate rumours from fact and put together specifics, so that hopefully, eventually, these people can be exposed for what they truly are.

I can kind of see that happening. It would be super hypocritical for movie stars to criticize tabloids for spreading fake stories, but then be spreading unsubstantiated rumours at the same time. That said if someone heard something like this from a reliable source, or from an actual victim, thdre arr a lot of things that probably could be done that are in between doing nothing and spreading rumours to the press.

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Sharon Waxman tweeted to "endorse" his version of events. Could have mentioned that in the original story, but hey, gotta boost those clicks for your site!

 

Gretchen Mol on the Weinstein rumors (denies anything ever happened, says she thought rumors about other actresses were also false as a result):

 

 

 

His wife's leaving him, his brother's not defending him, reputation in tatters...what else does he have left?

Whatever one thinks of "sex addiction" and whether it would be a factor with a person exhibiting a flagrant disregard for consent over the course of decades, surely there are facilities claiming to treat this "malady" in the US? For the record, People is only reporting that he's "headed to a residential treatment facility" but not its location, and it's TMZ who says he's headed to another continent, tonight. That's not suspicious at all!

 

In watching the Weinstein story unfold, Terry Crews felt moved to recount being sexually assaulted last year at an industry event by a "high-level Hollywood executive" .

Edited by Dejana
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6 hours ago, SeanC said:

Because that's the spirit in which those accusations are made, generally.  It's meant to be an insult to actresses; sometimes, even, framing them as the people who initiated it. 

Actually, on that point, I would say that longstanding rumours that Weinstein traded sexual favours for opportunities is somewhat different from the revelations that he was an aggressive sexual predator.  I had definitely heard the former in respect to, say, Jennifer Lawrence, and, like Clooney, I didn't pay any mind to it.

I have to agree that there's a difference between a guy who's a lech and guy who's a sexual predator, in my mind.  I work with a guy who has made it perfectly clear that he'd be more than happy to sleep with me if I was willing (and I know he's expressed similar sentiments to other women).  He's married, and I think he's kind of a pig, but I don't feel harassed by him and we're actually sort of friends.  We had a conversation early on when we started working together about just what behavior towards me I found unacceptable and he has since that conversation respected those lines. So a perv he may be, but he's a perv that respects boundaries. So if I was in Hollywood and I heard a producer would give roles to a woman that slept with him, I would role my eyes and think he was a bit of a creep and she was a bit of an idiot, but I wouldn't necessarily think that he was acting in a predatory fashion.

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So if I was in Hollywood and I heard a producer would give roles to a woman that slept with him, I would role my eyes and think he was a bit of a creep and she was a bit of an idiot, but I wouldn't necessarily think that he was acting in a predatory fashion.

I think it can also tie to the experience of Gretchen Mol. There were rumors that she'd slept with a producer to get a part and she knew that it wasn't true, so assumed rumors about other actresses were also false. "Sleeping your way to the top" is a gross way of implying someone's talent doesn't merit their success. He probably thought of it as a crass joke to slight an actress, and not an event that actually happened. Then again, this was also George Clooney when he was Hollywood's biggest bachelor and had a rotation of super models on his arm, so it's possible that he interpreted such rumors as consensual and mutually beneficial.

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@Dejana On the one hand, lots of BS "journalism" around this lately trolling for clicks by trying to stoke various angers and piggyback off of various theories/ideologies/movements (The one I found annoying was The Guardian contacting a bunch of people in some way connected with Weinstein and then publishing a list of names for public shaming when they didn't comment IMMEDIATELY. For every internet commenter who says it only takes a minute to make a statement... no. Everyone in the world should not be operating on statements they make with very little consideration. And they probably also have busy lives. The Guardian also included people who had commented to other sources but not to them specifically in their list of bad people.) but on the other hand, there's something still a little shaky about that Damon quote. I've made my peace with the fact that he might not be the best person after some past comments on diversity. Not the worst. Not the best. 

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For every internet commenter who says it only takes a minute to make a statement... no. Everyone in the world should not be operating on statements they make with very little consideration.

I think Jessica Chastain is a good example. Her heart is obviously in the right place, but her blind tweeting exacerbated the whole Sharon Waxman/Matt Damon story that headlines took wildly out of context. I hate to use the term "fake news" but so much of the media is like a game of telephone where one outlet reports on another outlets reporting with their own bias, and it's important to do your own research before you get trigger happy on social media.

The Guardian also included people who had commented to other sources but not to them specifically in their list of bad people.) but on the other hand, there's something still a little shaky about that Damon quote. I've made my peace with the fact that he might not be the best person after some past comments on diversity. Not the worst. Not the best.

Based on when many of the claims were made, I think it would have been impossible to work with Harvey in the 90's and not suspect anything foul about his behavior. I think we can all look back and recognize moments where we chose self preservation over calling out someone else's bad behavior, and I would find it far more admirable if these statements copped to that. Rose McGowan alludes to that in response to Ben Affleck's statement. It sounds like he knew about what Harvey did to her and told him to cut it out privately, while still working with and supporting Harvey publicly. I don't think that makes him a terrible person, but it makes his statement yesterday sound like total bullshit.

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12 hours ago, Proclone said:

So if I was in Hollywood and I heard a producer would give roles to a woman that slept with him, I would role my eyes and think he was a bit of a creep and she was a bit of an idiot, but I wouldn't necessarily think that he was acting in a predatory fashion.

Wouldn't you, at the bare minimum, think, "Geez, this guy is not acting in the best interest of my film by casting someone based on sexual favours rather than skill or talent?" These women weren't background extras. Also, after twenty years of consistent rumours of accepting sexual favours in exchange for career advancement, wouldn't you start to think this married man was not a good guy?

I'm just saying that all these excuses are fundamentally flawed.  Even if it is the norm, that's because the norm is wrong.

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1 hour ago, ChelseaNH said:

I'm gonna go with "lots of money."

I hope a boatload of civil suits take care of that. 

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42 minutes ago, xaxat said:

I hope a boatload of civil suits take care of that. 

He appears to have already settled quite a few of these cases.

Cara Delevingne’s story, shared on her Instagram, is particularly creepy in how she depicts one of Weinstein’s assistants acting to corral her into Weinstein’s room.

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